Mini RECCE Thread

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

So I figured I'd start a thread on mini RECCE rifles, so basically it's the same as a RECCE rifle but in a more compact package so 14.5 or shorter, free float tube, and a 1-4/6 or other LPV variable scope. I really like the idea of an accurate but handy rifle. Here's my 14.5 mini Recce Spikes upper and lower, geissele SSA-E, TR24 in a ADM Recon, 14.5 Spike's/FN barrel Surefire socom brake, magpul stock Spike's T2 buffer. It's a resonably accurate rifle, I need to get some match ammo to see what it will do but I think it can be a 1.5 moa gun

.40416

[californiasushi]

Here's a picture of mine:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23305689/DSC01627.JPG
.
12.5" Centurion barrel, 10" DD Lite handguard, Magpul furniture, Harris S-BRM 6-9" in an ADM mount, Burris XTR II 1-5x (5.56 reticle) in a Larue SPR mount, KAC Micro BUIS, and a Specwar K. Shoots ~1.15 MOA 5-shot groups with Hornady 75gr BTHP handloads and is pretty decent to 800 yards. It's a pretty fun gun to shoot.

[eightpoint]

I have to ask, isn't there already a picture thread for random rifles? < or =14.5" free floated rifles with a variable optic are a dime a dozen. Is it worth calling them "mini-recce" rifles? What's next, "mini mk18's"?

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

ar15.com has a mini recce thread so why don't we? They're compact precision guns, they're a fun little niche rifle.

[jethroUSMC]

I have a 13.7 Rock Creek barrel, 12" KAC FF RAS, KAC BUIS, SLR Sentry7 AGB running an AAC Mini 4 can will have a NF 2.5-10X32 on top shortly in an ADM mount.

Not posting a pic yet because it looks stupid on the pistol lower- until I get my gov't. issued permission slip to complete the SBR.

[MegademiC]

I have a custom build from parts aquired while in college.

Mega lower, stag lower kit
Bcm re
DD upper
Woa upper parts kit
Centurion 14.5" lw fn barrel
Bcm bcg
Urxiii
Surefire 3p
Kac micro 300m rear
Larue 104
Leupold xtr patrol
B5 bravo stock
Vcas sling

It shoots fusion consistently at 1.3-1.4" 10 shot groups.
I've shot sub moa for 1 5 shit group with 75gr match at 100yds, need to do more with it, but it's more than accurate for my uses right now.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh63/vinnyraf870/Mobile%20Uploads/20151121_120151_zpslqobviqf.jpg (http://s253.photobucket.com/user/vinnyraf870/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151121_120151_zpslqobviqf.jpg.html)

[KalashniKEV]

Does a RECCE have to have a variable power optic on it?

Is a 12.5" Noveske Crusader Switchblock with an ACOG a micro-RECCE or a mini-stainless-M4?

Or is it a strech-switchblock-stainless-Mk18?

[samuse]

I ditched the LPV and went back to a TA 31 ACOG. I found the 1X to of extremely limited utility and it came at disproportionately high size/weight/capability cost. The better optical clarity, reticle, and field of view make the TA31 a much better fit for anything past 50 yards IMO.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/sammuse/ARs/IMG_2486_zpswv80xq1z.jpg

[C-grunt]

I thought the short precision guns were called Afghans?

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

Does a RECCE have to have a variable power optic on it?

Is a 12.5" Noveske Crusader Switchblock with an ACOG a micro-RECCE or a mini-stainless-M4?

Or is it a strech-switchblock-stainless-Mk18?

I'd say mini recce, those crusaders are supposed to be super accurate barrels

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

I thought the short precision guns were called Afghans?

Noveske 14.5 stainless steel barrels are named afghans, 13.7 infidels, 12.5 crusader, 10.5 CQB.

[themonk]

ar15.com has a mini recce thread so why don't we? They're compact precision guns, they're a fun little niche rifle.

Really??

[Texpatriate]

I've never heard it called a "mini" RECCE, but apparently I own one.

BCM Complete Lower
Geissele SD3G Trigger
VLTOR MUR Upper
Noveske 14.5" Afghan Barrel
BCM Gunfighter CH
BCM BCG
BCM Gunfighter Comp Mod 1 (pinned and welded by ADCO)
Noveske NSR Handguard
Trijicon TR24G mounted in an LT139 SPR-E

Shot the Coyote off the top of a round bale (SHE was on the round bale, not me) at about 150-175 yds facing directly toward me. Nailed her straight in the chest. She was a chicken thief and got what was coming to her.
40430

[Jwknutson17]

What about a mini SPR, or a precision MK18.. I have an idea, how bout we just call them SBR's...

We already have picture threads and a custom build forum. Just saying..

[themonk]

What about a mini SPR, or a precision MK18.. I have an idea, how bout we just call them SBR's...

We already have picture threads and a custom build forum. Just saying..

Sounds right to me

[Korgs130]

ar15.com has a mini recce thread so why don't we?

I'm not sure that's solid logic for starting a picture thread here, but what evs.

[eightpoint]

ar15.com has a mini recce thread so why don't we? They're compact precision guns, they're a fun little niche rifle.

Precision guns? So throwing a variable power optic on any barrel length AR makes it a precision gun?

[californiasushi]

Precision guns? So throwing a variable power optic on any barrel length AR makes it a precision gun?

It can get really argumentative about what constitutes a precision gun (does a heavy stainless-barreled AR15 with a high-power scope even count?) but I think 1-nx scopes on ARs are really pushing the boundaries of what the platform is capable of. I don't know how you necessarily define a precision gun but I think by some measures a 1-nx scope on a solid-shooting AR-15 with match ammo can almost get there. With our 12.5" AR with Burris XTR 2 1-5x scope we can shoot sub-MOA groups (we shot a .65 MOA 5-shot group during load testing) and get decent hits on a dude-sized steel target at 843 yards. With our 16" AR with Leupold MK6 1-6x, we can get decent hits on a dude-sized steel at 907 yards and successfully engage MOA-sized targets to a few hundred yards. Glass quality, magnification range, and reticles on LPV scopes have really come a far way. I know before the MK6 I really needed a DM/SPR type AR15 with 9 or 10x on the top-end to hit MOA-sized steels as greyed steels can make tough targets IMHO. But with better and better 1-nx scopes coming out, maybe an AR that shoots well with a LPV on top can be a precision gun, or almost there.

[C-grunt]

Precision guns? So throwing a variable power optic on any barrel length AR makes it a precision gun?

Does a precision gun require a certain length barrel?

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

John Noveske is quoted as saying that his 12.5 crusader barrels were probably his most accurate barrel because they had great harmonics because they were short but thick. Yeah a 24 inch barrel will have way more velocity but that doesn't always equate to accuracy. Like stated before you can have an accurate gun with a shorter barrel, it doesn't have to be an 18 inch gun. This thread is for people to show off their guns, and talk about their guns. Yeah a 4-16 is going to be easier to print small groups than a 1-4 or 1-6 but depending on the reticle, load and shooter that 12.5 1-4 carbine can beat an 18 inch 2.5-10 rifle.

[RHINOWSO]

So why is it RECCE and not Recce or recce?

Gotta standardize this $hit.

[scooter22]

So why is it RECCE and not Recce or recce?

Gotta standardize this $hit.

We can't even agree on a barrel length.

I was thinking a mini RECCE was an SBR with a LPV.

[KalashniKEV]

I was thinking a mini RECCE was an SBR with a LPV.

But of course, I wouldn't touch a micro-precision-SBR with HPV!

[misfit47]

I'm putting a 1-8 on mine when it's all said and done, form is back. It'll have a 10.5 rainier.

[titsonritz]

ar15.com has a mini recce thread so why don't we? They're compact precision guns, they're a fun little niche rifle.

Cool, let's go full retard. :suicide:

[Firefly]

Unless you are like a real actual LRRP/LRS/Sneaky Pete, then technically it will never be a recce rifle, will it?

Guys in Vietnam just slapped on homebought scopes on their rifle, green taped it, and called it good.

Am I wrong?

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

Unless you are like a real actual LRRP/LRS/Sneaky Pete, then technically it will never be a recce rifle, will it?

Guys in Vietnam just slapped on homebought scopes on their rifle, green taped it, and called it good.

Am I wrong?

My dad when he ran with MACV-SOG never had any optics on his xm177, just irons. RECCE rifles originated with seals and even the LRS that you find in the army today are running acog, Ranger RECCE guys are probably running elcans and group RECCE teams probably run elcan too.

[eightpoint]

Does a precision gun require a certain length barrel?

It absolutely does not, to an extent. I worded that post incorrectly, I was attempting to infer that putting a powered optic on a rifle does not make it a precision gun.

[misfit47]

It absolutely does not, to an extent. I worded that post incorrectly, I was attempting to infer that putting a powered optic on a rifle does not make it a precision gun.
But it sure can help an accurate rifle shoot more precise.

[eightpoint]

But it sure can help an accurate rifle shoot more precise.

You've got that backwards. A quality powered optic can help a shooter be more accurate with an already precise rifle.

[misfit47]

You've got that backwards. A quality powered optic can help a shooter be more accurate with an already precise rifle.
Long day. That's what I was meaning. You are absolutely correct.

[BlackWatch16]

You've got that backwards. A quality powered optic can help a shooter be more accurate with an already precise rifle.

This.

Regarding the "Recce" discussion, let's just be honest and admit that even using the term at all in the civilian AR market is simply a marketing attempt to make a rifle sound cool, regardless of the barrel length. Which makes perfect sense though, since much of what the SEAL community does is based on perceived cool factor. Not an insult...just calling it like it is.
However, we should all be thankful for the work Crane did with the concept, design, specifications, and improvements to the Recon Rifle/SPR. Truly helped change the AR market.
With that said, I think if you're trying to define any "Recce" rifle, even a short barrel version, it has to be based on a stainless steel barrel and have some kind of magnification.

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

If you guys don't like the idea of a mini recce thread then don't visit the thread, this is supposed to be about posting builds and pics of rifles you got not some sort of semantics battle.

[themonk]

We already have one - https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?40-The-Official-SBR-Picture-Thread

This is not AR15.com

[Exiledviking]

We already have one - https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?40-The-Official-SBR-Picture-Thread

This is not AR15.com
And that's why I frequent this forum and not TOS.

[KalashniKEV]

Unless you are like a real actual LRRP/LRS/Sneaky Pete, then technically it will never be a recce rifle, will it?


RECCE rifles originated with seals...


However, we should all be thankful for the work Crane did with the concept, design, specifications, and improvements to the Recon Rifle/SPR.

They didn't do any work... because RECCE Rifles aren't even real.

Seriously. A RECCE rifle is a Mk... what? It isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAL_Recon_Rifle

All they did was put together some guy's shopping list for a badass AR-type... and then a different guy with a different list... they don't even track MODs or variations.

http://i55.tinypic.com/eisbp1.jpg


And that's why I frequent this forum and not TOS.

Bingo.

[misfit47]

Shhh... Don't smash our dreams man!

[pinzgauer]

Unless you are like a real actual LRRP/LRS/Sneaky Pete, then technically it will never be a recce rifle, will it?

Even worse, I question the Recon/recce name entirely. Maybe the SEAL/SF recon role is different... Or they just wanted a cool name.

By all accounts, there is quite a bit of training and specialized equipment LRS/recon have to do their jobs. Based on my admittedly 2nd hand knowledge, being a "carbine sniper" is not one of them.

High speed spades and dirt resistant lube might be more appropriate. And special pants to be able to crap in mre bags while living in a hole.

[friendlyfireisnt]

No matter what you call it, I feel that a 11.5"-14.5", precision oriented carbine, with a variable optic makes a lot of sense. Capable up close, capable out to 400-600 yards. It's a good compromise.

https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7444/27283183546_cde62ca4ea_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HyVrWj)SBRs (https://flic.kr/p/HyVrWj) by Photographer Pilot (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138264913@N04/), on Flickr

[SniperOverwatch]

Call it what you want...I call it a practical rifle. Maybe a modern "scout rifle?"

1. CQB is not the dominant scenario or use for my rifle (and I'd guess that's true for most users here) so a variable optic is better than an RDS.
2. I need precision on varmints out at a couple hundred yards.
3. We're shooting 5.56. If you're shooting further than 400yds or so, you probably need a bigger cartridge and more accurate rifle, plus you likely have the time to operate a bolt rifle with a larger scope anyway.

Different rifles for different tasks. I just find a 2.5-10x equipped rifle to be a bit much for what I do. YMMV.

I'm building a "mini-recce" with the following specs:

Lower:
BCM lower
Geissele SSA trigger
B5 SOPMOD Enhanced stock

Upper:
BCM upper & BCG
Rainier Select medcon SS 14.5" barrel (pinned)
AAC non-silencer flash hider (pinned)
KAC URX 3.1 10.75" rail
ADM Recon mount
Nightforce 1-4x24 with FC-3G reticle
Procter multicam sling

Should be a fun gun.

[Benito]

I'm not going to get into the whole naming thing, although I have nothing against the recce/mini-recce concept idea. Whatever. To each their own.

All I'll add is that for my uses, I don't see the point of stainless steel barrels in anything less that 16" barrels. Shorter than that and the practical accuracy (not mechanical) is not going to be a big issue for the effective range of the round at that muzzle velocity, and the stiffness of a short barrel makes the mechanical accuracy decent enough anyways.

That's my reasoning anyways. Less than 16 = blasters = chrome-lined. 16 or over = stainless, depending on application. I suppose Melonite would be good on either, too.

[SniperOverwatch]

I'm not going to get into the whole naming thing, although I have nothing against the recce/mini-recce concept idea. Whatever. To each their own.

All I'll add is that for my uses, I don't see the point of stainless steel barrels in anything less that 16" barrels. Shorter than that and the practical accuracy (not mechanical) is not going to be a big issue for the effective range of the round at that muzzle velocity, and the stiffness of a short barrel makes the mechanical accuracy decent enough anyways.

That's my reasoning anyways. Less than 16 = blasters = chrome-lined. 16 or over = stainless, depending on application. I suppose Melonite would be good on either, too.

Is the velocity difference between 16 and 14.5 really enough to drop the mini off the stainless chart? I'd always read that the difference was minimal.

Serious question, not picking a fight. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Firefly]

Even worse, I question the Recon/recce name entirely. Maybe the SEAL/SF recon role is different... Or they just wanted a cool name.

By all accounts, there is quite a bit of training and specialized equipment LRS/recon have to do their jobs. Based on my admittedly 2nd hand knowledge, being a "carbine sniper" is not one of them.

High speed spades and dirt resistant lube might be more appropriate. And special pants to be able to crap in mre bags while living in a hole.

True.

Ultimately it's getting something light but effective that can handle at least 60% of what one may encounter.

I'm no sneaky pete at all, but if I were going "light but reasonable" for a long time away from civilization or resupply, I'd do 12.5".

Something that's easier on the gun. CAR-15/XM-177E2s were slightly shorter than modern bone stock M4s and people lived in the wilderness with them well enough.

Just reading up what articulate BTDT guys say on 12.5" makes me think it'd be sensible.

Maybe a possible project...

[Kissel]

A 12.5 Centurion barrel with a Trij TR24G and M4-2000 has turned out to be all I think I'll ever need for practical purposes.

[Benito]

Is the velocity difference between 16 and 14.5 really enough to drop the mini off the stainless chart? I'd always read that the difference was minimal.

Serious question, not picking a fight. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trust me, man, I'd be the last person to get upset over the significance of velocity differences.
That is a good question, and one that probably varies by personal opinion, intended use, as well as ammo type, etc.
I guess for me, 16" is where I start considering the rifle as a Recce, and under that is blasters. Velocity out of a 14.5 is not that much less than a 16, but I just drew my cut off there. Yours may be different, and that's cool. I have nothing against precision stainless shorter barrels, but they're not my thing, that's all.

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

I want to put together a noveske crusader 12.5 barrel and I might put my tr24 german crosshairs or a tr25 on it. The noveske barrels pick up some extra velocity with their mod 0 and polygonal rifling. Rev arms with their single land rifling also picks up extra velocity so for you guys worrying about losing velocity you may want to look there way for barrels.

[californiasushi]

I want to put together a noveske crusader 12.5 barrel and I might put my tr24 german crosshairs or a tr25 on it. The noveske barrels pick up some extra velocity with their mod 0 and polygonal rifling. Rev arms with their single land rifling also picks up extra velocity so for you guys worrying about losing velocity you may want to look there way for barrels.

I had a Noveske 18" SPR with the mod 0 chamber and polygonal rifling and it wasn't any faster than my 18" WOA with Wylde chamber FWIW. The only real difference I've noticed with barrel manufacturers through my own experiences (with Noveske, WOA, DD, RRA, DPMS, BCM, Centurion, and a few other brands I'm sure I'm missing) is that it seems like DD barrels are a tad slower than other makers. I think it might be because of the looser chamber dimensions. However, accuracy is great and they're my favorite mil-spec barrel manufacturer.

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

I had a Noveske 18" SPR with the mod 0 chamber and polygonal rifling and it wasn't any faster than my 18" WOA with Wylde chamber FWIW. The only real difference I've noticed with barrel manufacturers through my own experiences (with Noveske, WOA, DD, RRA, DPMS, BCM, Centurion, and a few other brands I'm sure I'm missing) is that it seems like DD barrels are a tad slower than other makers. I think it might be because of the looser chamber dimensions. However, accuracy is great and they're my favorite mil-spec barrel manufacturer.

Really? I think it was molon but I found a thread where a guy took LMT barrels vs noveske stainless and the noveskes were picking up extra velocity. I have an 18 SPR barrel on my 3 gun rifle.

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-79626.html

Wasn't molon but here's the thread about velocity.

[Joelski]

Can somebody throw up a link to a spec sheet that goes beyond "match grade, mid-length gas barrel that blends in with standard carbines" that's endorsed by NSW, or SEAL team armorers? Thanks.

[californiasushi]

Really? I think it was molon but I found a thread where a guy took LMT barrels vs noveske stainless and the noveskes were picking up extra velocity. I have an 18 SPR barrel on my 3 gun rifle.

I could believe that the 12.5" Noveske had speeds approaching a slow 14.5" barrel but I don't think that it'd happen consistently. Some barrels, sometimes even from the same manufacturer, are faster than others. My point was that I don't think Noveske barrels are faster than other match barrels. I haven't owned a 12.5" Noveske (and other 12.5" stainless barrels to compare the Noveske to) so I can't comment from direct experience but that is just my feeling from owning a variety of 18" stainless match barrels, including a Noveske, that this is the case.

[C-grunt]

Can somebody throw up a link to a spec sheet that goes beyond "match grade, mid-length gas barrel that blends in with standard carbines" that's endorsed by NSW, or SEAL team armorers? Thanks.

I dont think there really was a spec sheet for the first Recce rifles. I believe it was Kyle Defoor who did a video about the origins of it and he said they were just aftermarket 16 inch stainless precision type uppers that they put on their M4 lowers. It wasn't until the Army got involved that it actually morphed into the Mk12, which he said a lot of SEALs didn't want.

Dot quote me on those, Im just going off memory from an interview. Ill see if I an find the video.

[MegademiC]

Can somebody throw up a link to a spec sheet that goes beyond "match grade, mid-length gas barrel that blends in with standard carbines" that's endorsed by NSW, or SEAL team armorers? Thanks.

Last I knew there was no such thing. Mstn has made some that were used to shoot bad guys in the face. There no military disignation, just custom builds for those that could get them. The ones I saw (posted by Mstn online) were 16" ss barrels with low to mid power variable optics. Recce is a concept not a designation.

Fwiw, some had carbine gas systems.

The concept birthed the MK12 as stated above, iirc.

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

Mk12 pre dated the RECCE guns. But You're right that it's a concept rather than a true rifle with a mk## designation. It's just like having a DMR, yeah a lot of guys have m14/39 or they have an accurized m16 but there isn't an actual name for the gun, it's a concept.

[rapomstage3]

How did this thread survive this long? The one gun to rule them all is the Sr 25. In 5.56 it's a 14.5"-16". I call them B.A.M.F rifles. Market that.

[Firefly]

How did this thread survive this long? The one gun to rule them all is the Sr 25. In 5.56 it's a 14.5"-16". I call them B.A.M.F rifles. Market that.

As much as I LOVE my SR-25, hauling oodles of .308 suuuuuuucks. I'm getting older. Funk dat. If I had a caddy, yeah or if it were just the total end of the world.

But an SR-15 would be the bomb, I agree.

[rapomstage3]

As much as I LOVE my SR-25, hauling oodles of .308 suuuuuuucks. I'm getting older. Funk dat. If I had a caddy, yeah or if it were just the total end of the world.

But an SR-15 would be the bomb, I agree.
Good point. I guess I was thinking more short term operation.

[johnson]

Today I transferred the scope and suppressor from my "mini SPR" (16" Centurion Recce barrel) to a Centurion 12.5" CL upper and shot some groups at 100 yards. I was surprised on how well it did with magnification and decent ammo and could most likely do better when the range is less crowded. The wood benches/booths are all connected so there's constant vibration from other shooters.

Old pic that shows the bench setup.
http://i.imgur.com/vSxth2y.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/n8XuCt1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zRy9rVr.jpg?2

Factory LMT lower/trigger with A5 system
Bushnell LRHS 3-12x
Fiocchi 50gr V-MAX
Vortex FH and Thunder Beast 30P-1. I like the Vortex since it's easily removed by hand.
Hornady Delta front rest (the red thing in the first pic) and DIY rear bag

I first shot a couple rounds at 50 with Wolf and got it centered up. The first group at 100 was a little disappointing since I can group the same or smaller with irons or red dot. I switched to the V-MAX and got some confidence back. It consistently shoots about .50"-.75" at 100 yards with the stainless 16" barrel which isn't bad for ~$10 a box.

http://i.imgur.com/tNGAHPz.jpg

I swapped targets and finished the trip with some Federal Fusion 62gr because I'll probably use this setup for the upcoming deer season where shots are typically <150 yards.

http://i.imgur.com/uW3odO7.jpg

[BenY 2013]

Great I thought I was done spending money on my AR then I saw this thread... Thanks alot :laugh:

Ben

[abanks8245]

41768

My little submission:
Noveske 12.5 crusader
NSR rail 11 inch
Gen 1 Upper
Gen 2 lower
Vortex PST 2.5-10x32 FFP
AAC SDN6 ,been in the works for about 2 years pieceing it together , finally finished in time for hunting season.

[Bedouin2W]

Noveske Crusader
Toolcraft C138 BCG
SSA-E Trigger
Aero upper
PSA lower

Everything else should be easy to figure out for this audience.

https://i.imgur.com/vFh578a.jpg

[CPM]

What the hell is happening to this site?

[RHINOWSO]

What the hell is happening to this site?

Infestation

[5.56 Bonded SP]

Edit: Posted in a Necro thread, didn't realize it. Please delete.

[5.56 Bonded SP]

I just realized I posted in a Necro thread, my apologies.

[docsherm]

What the hell is happening to this site?

People posting with out a reason like it was F#$&in Twitter.

[jstalford]

Better to Twitter in one thread then starting new build threads for everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Joelski]

Us guys with real RECCE's think you should get a catchy nickname for your nitch rifle, yes. :)

You don't see me calling my scoped 16" rifle a short barreled SPR.

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

It’s here to stay haha!