View Full Version : Doea anyone here have a side business?
black22rifle
07-13-16, 00:27
I have been thinking about opening a side business lately for some extra cash and possible tax benefits. What I had in mind was becoming a distributor of gun related items and setting up a small website or selling on eBay or amazon. Not guns them selves but accessories like flashlights, furniture, sights, maybe even rails and parts.
I haven't gone any further than thinking about it, but it would be ran out of my home. I know I must have a room dedicated to the business so that's no problem, but what do the big name manufacturers require to be a distributor? I'm talking about Surefire, Magpul, DD, Aimpoint. I don't want to sell junk.
Do you have a side business? What kind? Is it worth it?
I have been thinking about opening a side business lately for some extra cash and possible tax benefits. What I had in mind was becoming a distributor of gun related items and setting up a small website or selling on eBay or amazon. Not guns them selves but accessories like flashlights, furniture, sights, maybe even rails and parts.
I haven't gone any further than thinking about it, but it would be ran out of my home. I know I must have a room dedicated to the business so that's no problem, but what do the big name manufacturers require to be a distributor? I'm talking about Surefire, Magpul, DD, Aimpoint. I don't want to sell junk.
Do you have a side business? What kind? Is it worth it?
Who do you imagine you are going to buy firearm accessories from that will allow you to sell them at the same price or better than Amazon or other online distributors?
I'm a FFL and I can't do it.
I buy my ammo from Wal Mart because even at FFL pricing, once you add shipping to me Wal Mart is cheaper. Additionally many ammo distributors will sell and ship directly to customers at prices that are even cheaper than the FFL price I get from most of my wholesalers.
Accessories? Forget it. Blackhawk, 5.11, Leupold and everything else is within $1 of my FFL price on about a dozen discount websites I can think of. Then there are the 10,000 other websites run by people who had exactly the same idea as you and are trying to make 20% markups while paying the cost of a website.
Here is a simple rule of thumb. If Amazon or Wal Mart sells it, don't even bother.
Some other manufacturers won't even talk to you unless you are a FFL. Won't matter that you only intend to sell their flashlights and not their suppressors. If you don't have a FFL, occupational license and a retail tax certificate you can't get anything from them. But you can order those flashlights for $1 more than dealer price with free shipping from Amazon.
The only way to make money selling anything is to be able to obtain something that most people cannot get. Because if you can get it by simply ordering it, so can everyone else and thousands are already doing it.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Let's take the SureFire 6PX Pro (SF6PX-D-BK).
If I order it from one of the larger FFL suppliers (RSR) here is my price is $57.00 it is MSRPs at $95.00, this shipping cost on one unit is about $20 so my actual price to buy one from a wholesaler is $77.00.
But ANYONE can go here and order the exact same thing for $68.47 with FREE SHIPPING.
https://www.amazon.com/Surefire-Dual-Output-Flashlight-Black/dp/B009F7J8LQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468389671&sr=8-1&keywords=surefire+6xp
There have been plenty of times I have ordered firearms stuff from Amazon, Adorama and the like because it's actually cheaper than buying from a wholesaler. I avoid ebay because it's loaded with counterfeit stuff.
But let's assume you are going to buy in bulk and order 24 Surefire flashlights. You will be $10 cheaper than Amazon and shipping on 24 flashlights will cost about $45.00. So that means if you sell them at exactly the same price as Amazon, when you finally sell all 24 you should have made almost $200 in profits.
Just a couple problems, you can't offer free shipping and it will cost $6 to ship in a small flat rate box so now your profits look like $40 after expenses. And the annual cost to run a website will run about that much and almost nobody will find it because they are too busy buying the same thing at the same price you are offering on Amazon.
You'd be better off mowing lawns.. seriously. I got my FFL a couple years ago. Since I am small I really can't get any good deals on anything. I keep it to facilitate transfers for my customers and order guns for guys that don't want to deal with going to the bigger gun shops. Accessory wise, I have not found anything that has a reasonable gross profit margin to even bother with as a small business guy.
My primary business is a retail hardware store and lumber yard. This business is protected from most online competition due to the fact that it's tough to ship 2x4's, paint, and windows, etc...
I have had several side businesses as my primary business grew. I've done small carpentry jobs, locksmithing, and snow plowing. Of them all, I made more cash pocket money doing the locksmithing gig. Car lockouts were almost always cash money. You can learn a bunch of it from YouTube and other websites.
In today's global, online economy, the only way to make any real money is with large volume. Both buying and selling. If you don't have the resources up front to do that, your best bet is finding used stuff people want but only few have (old cars I've made money on but they are a huge gamble), or as AKDoug mentioned above sell a service.
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Moose-Knuckle
07-13-16, 05:25
Yeah the firearm thing is very saturated. A buddy of mine recently embarked on a side business (full time LEO), he got his FFL and SOT. Instead of focusing on selling firearms he does machine gun rentals for corporate events, bachelor parties, LE familiarization/training, birthdays, etc.
I just bought a rifle only two hundred dollars over his dealer cost from an online retailer as everything is drying up and his distributors are out of stock and have no idea when the particular rifle would be available, he gives me dealer cost on guns.
Things like mags are on sale all the time, just last week I cleaned up from an online retailer who ran Gen M2 MOE PMAG ten packs for $89. I don't know what dealer cost is on those but damn, $8.99 for a PMAG in today's climate is good. Pro-tip, buy from retailers who either offer free shipping or free shipping promos from time to time. I buy from retailers out of state due to my state's sale tax. I save a ton.
Edit to add: The internet is why I stopped going to gun shows. I don't know how those guys stay in business as the last ones I went to were everything was priced sky high.
Eurodriver
07-13-16, 06:29
I do some side work unrelated to firearms.
I think gun show guys go for the fun, not to make money.
What would make money and what people need to do is open up a 100 yard wide, mile long tract of farming land for long range shooting. Don't even let people shoot less than 300 yards - that will keep most of the riff raff away. Have some golf carts and require people to bring their own stands.
$30 to shoot. 35 benches. You'd gross $78k a year just by hanging out at your own gun range on the weekends.
Averageman
07-13-16, 06:45
I've got an idea for an accessory and I've built a couple of prototypes for myself.
I would like to market the idea, but don't know who to go to with it. It isn't limited to people who work on guns, but just about anything with small parts and springs and such.
Who do you go to with something like this?
I'll agree with everything said above and add... My father ran multiple small businesses for most of his life. One involved soda vending machines. He had a couple of thousand Coke machines. All at public recreation facilities in South Georgia. To buy product from the manufacturer he had to buy in lots of 10 rail cars. He bought from chain grocery stores for less! Sales volume = buying power. You can't do mail order without taking credit cards. Guys like Amazon can negotiate CC fees down to next to nothing. A small business will pay 2-3%. Same with shipping. Amazon probably pays less the 1/3rd of what a SB will. For a clear path to success with a small business you need to do something better than everyone else or something no one else wants to do.
I started a side business selling parts and accessories, and due to other circumstances, it ended up being my main business. This shit ain't easy, for all the reasons listed above, but I am paying the bills, despite the small amount of cash I have to work with. Web sales are a lot harder than it seems from the outside, and I think you have to spend a good bit of money to get a site cranking Gun shows can be good money if you can carve out your niche and build a following. (on a side note, I always chuckle when people say gun shows are way over priced...what I see is a race to the bottom, so many dealers trying to undercut everyone...I see guns all day long selling for $5 and $10 over cost, people making $10 on cases of ammo, people turning and burning mags for like a dollar). Anyways, I am making it so far, but it takes a good bit of time and effort. I may be in the opposite position, I may need a side job to improve my position...
Eurodriver
07-13-16, 07:30
I started a side business selling parts and accessories, and due to other circumstances, it ended up being my main business. This shit ain't easy, for all the reasons listed above, but I am paying the bills, despite the small amount of cash I have to work with. Web sales are a lot harder than it seems from the outside, and I think you have to spend a good bit of money to get a site cranking Gun shows can be good money if you can carve out your niche and build a following. (on a side note, I always chuckle when people say gun shows are way over priced...what I see is a race to the bottom, so many dealers trying to undercut everyone...I see guns all day long selling for $5 and $10 over cost, people making $10 on cases of ammo, people turning and burning mags for like a dollar). Anyways, I am making it so far, but it takes a good bit of time and effort. I may be in the opposite position, I may need a side job to improve my position...
You know, when I made my post I had completely forgotten about you ;) Your prices are no doubt very fair, and there's that ammo guy that always sets up in the corner by you at the show and he's pretty reasonable too.
Other than that though, I have a tough time finding anything pretty reasonable. Maybe it's because I'm not looking for random firearm magazines or other things that might be offered at great prices - AR stuff seems to be pretty stable.
You know, when I made my post I had completely forgotten about you ;) Your prices are no doubt very fair, and there's that ammo guy that always sets up in the corner by you at the show and he's pretty reasonable too.
Other than that though, I have a tough time finding anything pretty reasonable. Maybe it's because I'm not looking for random firearm magazines or other things that might be offered at great prices - AR stuff seems to be pretty stable.
Some shows may be different, but the ones I do, the big ones with mostly legit dealers, its pretty competitive, and new guns can easily be found well below MSRP. But then again, you know me, so you can skip the shows ;)
I know a few guys, three, who tried to make being a FFL their sole business. In no case has it worked out, but they do make some side money by treating it more as a hobby.
I did my own thing as a side business, tactical/expeditionary medical training/consulting, and building med kits. I can't build a kit cheaper than some on the market, but absolutely can for others. it got where I taught/consulted far more than anything, and it was a good weekend gig for a while, but I hated--HATED--keeping up with the billing/tax/etc paperwork, and as my family grew I was teaching less and less, so I just eventually stopped. I do miss it, though.
I do teach from time to time for groups with a local firearm forum, and barter teaching for services (range time, ammo, etc).
I do some side work unrelated to firearms.
I think gun show guys go for the fun, not to make money.
What would make money and what people need to do is open up a 100 yard wide, mile long tract of farming land for long range shooting. Don't even let people shoot less than 300 yards - that will keep most of the riff raff away. Have some golf carts and require people to bring their own stands.
$30 to shoot. 35 benches. You'd gross $78k a year just by hanging out at your own gun range on the weekends.
Good lord, 35 benches, golf carts, 300m to 1500m, it'd be like herding monkeys. :jester:
Around here you could do that on some pasture land, here's a local guy that does it. Gets folks from 200 miles away for his precision matches. http://www.spearpointranch.com/dogs.html
Good lord, 35 benches, golf carts, 300m to 1500m, it'd be like herding monkeys. :jester:
Around here you could do that on some pasture land, here's a local guy that does it. Gets folks from 200 miles away for his precision matches. http://www.spearpointranch.com/dogs.html
I was just visiting last weekend a couple that went to our church who moved about 100 miles to his childhood home which he inherited when his dad died. he has a tad over 700 acres. I tried like crazy to talk him into making a range complex for precision shooting. He would rather farm.
I run on the side a Coffee shop in Budapest Hungary ..
Filipino coffee called Barako Kávéház.
trying to get Filipino coffee to the states is taking time.
So why not in my father's country.
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There is a lot of very good advice in this thread. One thing I will add is this. It seems like when most people have a side business, they treat it like a side business. I mean that in a bad way.
Customers can often tell the side business is not a priority for the owner/emplyee because the service is not very good, they are not very professional (which is shown in many ways), the hours may be limited/inconsistent, it's hard to get in touch with them, they are slow to respond to you, etc. Sure, the prices may be competitive, but that only gets you so far.
The problem is the side business people are competing against people who do this full time as their only business. The full timers are playing their "A" game, which may not be very good. But it's usually much better than the side business people.
The side business people even make excuses and tell people it's is just a side business/hobby for them. That's great, but it can be very limiting depending on what the goals are. I have noticed that side business people are often intentionally unprofessional because they want their customers expectations to be lower. This is very limiting (which may or may not be OK with the side business owner). I could give you many examples, but I am sure you can see this on your own.
Years ago, an old friend pointed out that the gun industry is full of "business people" who do this as a hobby or a secondary business. He was frustrated that he had a hard time getting decent service from businesses in this industry. He felt like he put up with more bad service/problems because he was a gun guy and wanted to give his business to gun people. But he has probably shifted away from those businesses now.
Joe Mamma
There is a lot of very good advice in this thread. One thing I will add is this. It seems like when most people have a side business, they treat it like a side business. I mean that in a bad way.
Customers can often tell the side business is not a priority for the owner/emplyee because the service is not very good, they are not very professional (which is shown in many ways), the hours may be limited/inconsistent, it's hard to get in touch with them, they are slow to respond to you, etc. Sure, the prices may be competitive, but that only gets you so far.
The problem is the side business people are competing against people who do this full time as their only business. The full timers are playing their "A" game, which may not be very good. But it's usually much better than the side business people.
The side business people even make excuses and tell people it's is just a side business/hobby for them. That's great, but it can be very limiting depending on what the goals are. I have noticed that side business people are often intentionally unprofessional because they want their customers expectations to be lower. This is very limiting (which may or may not be OK with the side business owner). I could give you many examples, but I am sure you can see this on your own.
Years ago, an old friend pointed out that the gun industry is full of "business people" who do this as a hobby or a secondary business. He was frustrated that he had a hard time getting decent service from businesses in this industry. He felt like he put up with more bad service/problems because he was a gun guy and wanted to give his business to gun people. But he has probably shifted away from those businesses now.
Joe Mamma
It seems like, then, the side business people would lose customers, right? I see the point in that the side business people often have little skin in the game...if they have a bad month, quarter, whatever, there is no tangible loss; their primary job keeps them chugging. I like my buddies in the biz...gun transfers are stupid-easy and they get me what I want at cost or just above. They do for me what I need; sometimes, I have to go to a "real" business, but they have their place.
But if this is a source of frustration to the full-timers, then it stands to reason they should do something to either up their customer base, or do something different enough to stand out, etc., to draw the customers. I get the frustration with competition with people who aren't doing it for-reals, but it's capitalism, no?
I will say one of my buddies who left the IT industry to start custom-making ARs, suppressors, etc. had grandiose ideas of becoming the next, I don't know, Knights or LaRue, whatever. He does make a great AR but they are, to me, cost prohibitive. I have told him that. Every year he holds an open house at a range and lets me shoot his stuff for free (which is nice with the 6.5 and .50 BMG), but no way I would pay his prices. So now, he builds them when he can, and works back in IT.
It can be done though, a lot of the companies represented here started in someone's garage.
Eurodriver
07-13-16, 13:25
but I hated--HATED--keeping up with the billing/tax/etc paperwork
What?
That's the best part.
Lots of great advice here.
The comment about mowing lawns was a good one. Sweat is something that people will always pay for, and my willingness to sweat in exchange for $$ is always something that I keep on the table.
I have a great 6-figure management desk job. However, I still occasionally hustle up stuff on Craigslist if I want some play money, or just to prove a point to my kids. The last thing I did was to gather firewood out of the "free" section. I would pick it up, take it home, split it, and then re-sell it on Craigslist. I grossed about $2K with about $200 out of pocket for truck gas and splitter rentals. My labor was about 4 Saturdays. I worked my butt off those days, but my kids got to see tangibly that sweat =$$.
I have even picked up a few weed-eating jobs lately because my neighbors can't find any high school kids who are willing to do it. There is lots of opportunity for people willing to work!
after purchase price taxes and oh yeah insurance you would only be in the negative about $25k a year :) ahahahahah
figure in not every day will be full and figure in bad weather days and other items reality is very little would be made
I do some side work unrelated to firearms.
I think gun show guys go for the fun, not to make money.
What would make money and what people need to do is open up a 100 yard wide, mile long tract of farming land for long range shooting. Don't even let people shoot less than 300 yards - that will keep most of the riff raff away. Have some golf carts and require people to bring their own stands.
$30 to shoot. 35 benches. You'd gross $78k a year just by hanging out at your own gun range on the weekends.
Sorta OT sorta not.
Gun Shows used to be great because they were actual shows. Lots of good stuff at reasonable(ish) pricing and horse trading to be done.
But with GB, Amazon, and the internet as a whole....why bother dealing with middlemen?
Plus gun shows now are like flea markets.
have basically been in business my whole life at 53 now its been great and been tough
but I say go for it !!!! you never know but IMHO the one HUGE thing is how involved you are in with the industry you want to get into and such
take Grant and this forum his angle in IMHO but he also I am sure by his success is great at biz
look at the trainers on the top of there game again there in and income from training and knowledge
my biggest years were with things I was really connected into big time
again go for it :) you never know until you try and you will learn a ton and love it and hate it most likely :)
There is a lot of very good advice in this thread. One thing I will add is this. It seems like when most people have a side business, they treat it like a side business. I mean that in a bad way.
Customers can often tell the side business is not a priority for the owner/emplyee because the service is not very good, they are not very professional (which is shown in many ways), the hours may be limited/inconsistent, it's hard to get in touch with them, they are slow to respond to you, etc. Sure, the prices may be competitive, but that only gets you so far.
The problem is the side business people are competing against people who do this full time as their only business. The full timers are playing their "A" game, which may not be very good. But it's usually much better than the side business people.
The side business people even make excuses and tell people it's is just a side business/hobby for them. That's great, but it can be very limiting depending on what the goals are. I have noticed that side business people are often intentionally unprofessional because they want their customers expectations to be lower. This is very limiting (which may or may not be OK with the side business owner). I could give you many examples, but I am sure you can see this on your own.
Years ago, an old friend pointed out that the gun industry is full of "business people" who do this as a hobby or a secondary business. He was frustrated that he had a hard time getting decent service from businesses in this industry. He felt like he put up with more bad service/problems because he was a gun guy and wanted to give his business to gun people. But he has probably shifted away from those businesses now.
Joe Mamma
I see exactly where you are coming from and this is exactly why I don't do any of my side stuff any more. I integrated the locksmith stuff into the main company, and quit doing the rest. Doing carpentry work was competing against my contractor customers (even though I was licensed) and I quickly realized that was a bad move.
Eurodriver
07-13-16, 19:18
Lots of great advice here.
The comment about mowing lawns was a good one. Sweat is something that people will always pay for, and my willingness to sweat in exchange for $$ is always something that I keep on the table.
I have a great 6-figure management desk job. However, I still occasionally hustle up stuff on Craigslist if I want some play money, or just to prove a point to my kids. The last thing I did was to gather firewood out of the "free" section. I would pick it up, take it home, split it, and then re-sell it on Craigslist. I grossed about $2K with about $200 out of pocket for truck gas and splitter rentals. My labor was about 4 Saturdays. I worked my butt off those days, but my kids got to see tangibly that sweat =$$.
I have even picked up a few weed-eating jobs lately because my neighbors can't find any high school kids who are willing to do it. There is lots of opportunity for people willing to work!
I have no shit seen the president of a local bank riding his lawnmower down the street to cut people's lawns for money.
And he's not hurting for money.
if you had one of those super cool mowers and a good set of headphones and enjoyed driving the thing why not get paid :) hahahaah
especially if its in nicer areas :)
I have no shit seen the president of a local bank riding his lawnmower down the street to cut people's lawns for money.
And he's not hurting for money.
I have no shit seen the president of a local bank riding his lawnmower down the street to cut people's lawns for money.
And he's not hurting for money.
Not surprising. For people with all of their wants and needs squared away, there are a number of reasons to do this from nostalgia for the days when they mowed lawns as a kid for spending money to reinforcement of their own perceived work ethic. I know guys who own construction companies who make a point of carry heavy shit or doing hard work at some point in the day just to show everyone else they are willing to get their hands dirty and have BTDT.
Who do you imagine you are going to buy firearm accessories from that will allow you to sell them at the same price or better than Amazon or other online distributors?
I'm a FFL and I can't do it.
I buy my ammo from Wal Mart because even at FFL pricing, once you add shipping to me Wal Mart is cheaper. Additionally many ammo distributors will sell and ship directly to customers at prices that are even cheaper than the FFL price I get from most of my wholesalers.
Accessories? Forget it. Blackhawk, 5.11, Leupold and everything else is within $1 of my FFL price on about a dozen discount websites I can think of. Then there are the 10,000 other websites run by people who had exactly the same idea as you and are trying to make 20% markups while paying the cost of a website....
[and everything else Steyr said]
Whacked the nail on the head there.
I dabbled in the online accessory selling game a few years back, and.... it sucked.
The dealer prices were shit, and here I was seeing all the sales on stuff and thinking there was actually room to make a profit....:rolleyes:
And then after shipping there are fees, fees, fees, and then just for a change of pace... fees, for any possible method of selling online.
Add the fact that the accessory market is VERY saturated.
After a month, I thankfully saw the writing on the wall, dumped everything for whatever I could get and got the hell out, *just* breaking even on my initial investment.
FML. :(
You want to know how to make money on gun parts?
Buy shitloads of mags, ammo, BCGs, and other useful parts at current sale prices, stack 'em up in your basement, and wait for congress to come back in session.
If only I had had the sense to do THAT years ago, I'd have made out like a filthy bandit.
But now I get to play like everyone else and run around trying to get my own shit straight instead of laughing at the silly rabbits while rolling in my swimming pool of greenbacks while diaphanous damsels frolic about and fan me with one of those big feather fans...
I do some side work unrelated to firearms.
I think gun show guys go for the fun, not to make money.
What would make money and what people need to do is open up a 100 yard wide, mile long tract of farming land for long range shooting. Don't even let people shoot less than 300 yards - that will keep most of the riff raff away. Have some golf carts and require people to bring their own stands.
$30 to shoot. 35 benches. You'd gross $78k a year just by hanging out at your own gun range on the weekends.
And despite what I just said, I still want to do some sort of gun/gear/shooting related "thing" as a business, even if only a side one.
I'd love to open a *real* range, with some "outside the box" options your standard "spray and pray with the gomers at 25" ranges don't have, that serious shooter could take advantage of, or host classes by known folks, run events, etc.
Got a pretty good idea in mind, but.... I'd need $78k just to buy land/build the damn thing.
I'd love to run (or AI) some training classes, which I know I could do. It would legitimately be a side business as the market for training aside for "zero for huntin' seasin' around here is small, but it would be fun to do a couple classes every couple months, and maybe I'd make some pocket money on the side.
But you either need to be a SEAL with street cred, or have appropriate certifications, and since I'm not a SEAL, and I'm about to go a few rounds with the NRA over them losing my shit from a previous certification class.... not looking good.
I am literally chomping at the bit to start a soft (tactical) gear company. I know I've got enough decent original ideas to have a siolid starting product lineup.
But there doesn't seem to be an "art of the dynamic sewing machine" series to get started with personally, and from feelers I've put out, it seems having production run contract to an established gear manufacturer, especially if prototyping is needed, is just going to be another fat wad of cash I'll be pissing away.
So....
I guess I'm just fubar'd all the way around. :suicide:
Moose-Knuckle
07-14-16, 03:46
Back when Arsenal was giving away their now banned SGL-21s I sold crap I didn't need anymore on Craiglist to buy one. One of the guys who bought an old but working washer and dryer off me did this for a living. He would go around and buy used appliances, he specialized in washers and dryers and flipped them for profit after he worked them over.
I've had an idea for some time of doing something similar with baby products; car seats, strollers, etc. big ticket items that are gently used buying them and flipping them.
As for guns shows it's by region. One of the last shows I went to one dealer had a single BCM rifle. I talked to him about it and said that I was the only one out of xx amount of shows that had ever heard of them before. Most the attendees are newbs and or Fudds that want Bushmaster, DPMS, Armalite, etc. When the DDM4V1 first came out local dealers at shows were giving them away cause they couldn't move them, had to be right at dealer cost or below. Ammo and mags way overpriced. The only reason to go to any around here is if you are a collector looking for that diamond in the ruff.
As for guns shows it's by region. One of the last shows I went to one dealer had a single BCM rifle. I talked to him about it and said that I was the only one out of xx amount of shows that had ever heard of them before. Most the attendees are newbs and or Fudds that want Bushmaster, DPMS, Armalite, etc. When the DDM4V1 first came out local dealers at shows were giving them away cause they couldn't move them, had to be right at dealer cost or below. Ammo and mags way overpriced. The only reason to go to any around here is if you are a collector looking for that diamond in the ruff.
I am pretty much the only guy that has a selection of quality AR stuff, like BCM, DD, Magpul, etc. I only do the large shows because I need enough traffic to find the guys who know what I have and want it. I have built up a good following, and I am actually bringing out some of the guys who would not otherwise go to the shows. Anyways, the point is, it works both ways. If people want to see more of certain products at shows, then they have to go to shows and buy them....supply and demand is not a one way street.
I am pretty much the only guy that has a selection of quality AR stuff, like BCM, DD, Magpul, etc. I only do the large shows because I need enough traffic to find the guys who know what I have and want it. I have built up a good following, and I am actually bringing out some of the guys who would not otherwise go to the shows. Anyways, the point is, it works both ways. If people want to see more of certain products at shows, then they have to go to shows and buy them....supply and demand is not a one way street.
Interesting. I have stopped going to the shows. 90% Bushmaster/DPMS, I never see BCM/DD. Every other table prepper stuff, camping stuff guised as "military surplus," or WWII collectables. There are usually a couple tables of some local AR custom builders who build really nice stuff, but are so freaking expensive I just walk right on by. Just not worth the price of admission when I can order directly and have something shipped to my FFL or buy from the E&E.
The only 'value' I have seen at our local gun show was a WWII-era Remington Rand 1911 in excellent condition for a grand.
Interesting. I have stopped going to the shows. 90% Bushmaster/DPMS, I never see BCM/DD. Every other table prepper stuff, camping stuff guised as "military surplus," or WWII collectables. There are usually a couple tables of some local AR custom builders who build really nice stuff, but are so freaking expensive I just walk right on by. Just not worth the price of admission when I can order directly and have something shipped to my FFL or buy from the E&E.
The only 'value' I have seen at our local gun show was a WWII-era Remington Rand 1911 in excellent condition for a grand.
I go fairly often but to only the big ones. Those little firehall gun shows seem like they require a tetanus shot prior to entry.
The bigger ones I always find something. It's never DD or BCM although my first AR was a DDm4 from a gunshow for $900 which I ended up selling later to fund a SBR. I usually find deals on mags or ammo and I dabble a little in surplus rifles and occasionally someone has something good for cheap
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I can't speak for other shows, but the ones I do are 500 to 800 tables, and most of it is legit dealers. You can definitely find some DD, Colt, LWRC, occasionally BCM, and a few others, Some good quality local manufacturers as well. But again, the main problem is that the customers overwhelmingly buy S&W Sports, Bushmaster, Windham, DPMS, etc. As for prices, if you want a new gun, you will find it for a few dollars over cost...so many new guns are dumped by dealers at the shows.
I've had an idea for some time of doing something similar with baby products; car seats, strollers, etc. big ticket items that are gently used buying them and flipping them.
That sounds like a pretty good idea, a lot of places won't touch used car seats, etc. because they are safety equipment. I found this out when I tried to drop off some high-end car seats at Goodwill.
One of my more expensive hobbies is injuring various joints and bones in my body :o. As a result I've got a couple boxes of carbon fiber braces, walking boots, etc. Seems a shame no one recycles those.
I had some surgery done on a previous injury and actually brought the walking boot from the original break in with me when they removed the cast 'nope we don't reuse those.' Actually what they meant was 'we are going to bill you for a new one.'
Seems to me that if someone would recycle those things there would be a market for them at free clinics, etc.
Eurodriver
07-14-16, 09:27
As a result I've got a couple boxes of carbon fiber braces, walking boots, etc. Seems a shame no one recycles those.
Now you tell me...
I've had an idea for some time of doing something similar with baby products; car seats, strollers, etc. big ticket items that are gently used buying them and flipping them.
We have six kids. We have made some decent $ selling the strollers and peripherals and accessories. My wife, the little schemer that she is, will buy childrens' clothes pennies-on-the-dollar at yard sales and places like Goodwill and sell them on eBay for much, much, MUCH more than she paid. She has a gifting in that....she knows the styles and brands that will/won't sell.
What?
That's the best part.
Says the accountant.....
I'm in the that sucks extraordinarily group. But I'm a bit jaded. Seems like everyone except me got to make money off my small business.
Side business is a tough deal. Hell, just owning a business is tough. I'm in the process is dissolving my small business.
What an experience its has been though. It's only cost me everything, my time, my name, sleep, and health issues.
Lately I'm in the I really don't care about money, and just want to have a little fun and enjoy my children. I sure missed out on a lot of time with them. For less than nothing too.
Back to a regular job. I'm also kicking around the idea is air guard. That might be my side scratch gig.
I'm with the guys who say mow lawns or plow snow. Retail anything is a joke now with Amazon. (They apparently have no issues running at losses...... ) I went ****ing broke running at losses.
Some kind of service with no employees and low over head would be good. But buying to resell...... Good luck.
Niche is where it's at, regardless of industry.
Get on that primary arms dealer program. That would be the way, if there was one.
Or you could just spend less, cut the fat, and go camping a little more often and not worry about a side gig.
And like Euro says, the bean counting is the best part......... Unfortunately, he's 100% right. Business live and die in the P&L. It's less about what you like and what's your passion, and more about a running business.
I was that. Kicked ass at what I did. I sucked at the business game. Can your afford to hire a guy like euro to do that? Here's your bill for month of ..........$4,000
Go for it. What the hell right?
I might try again, but not anytime soon. I'm enjoying the **** out of life for a change.
Good luck. Your going to need it.
fallenromeo
07-14-16, 15:55
As said several times, if you want to make money on the side, sell a service. I use to do taxes on the side
My opinion is that the best way to be in the gun business is selling used guns only. Hence you could control prices paid for product. The average guy has no idea about the extent of and expense of overhead in retail businesses.
sandsunsurf
07-14-16, 19:59
Side business is a tough deal. Hell, just owning a business is tough. I'm in the process is dissolving my small business.
What an experience its has been though. It's only cost me everything, my time, my name, sleep, and health issues.
Lately I'm in the I really don't care about money, and just want to have a little fun and enjoy my children. I sure missed out on a lot of time with them. For less than nothing too.
Back to a regular job. I'm also kicking around the idea is air guard. That might be my side scratch gig.
I'm with the guys who say mow lawns or plow snow. Retail anything is a joke now with Amazon. (They apparently have no issues running at losses...... ) I went ****ing broke running at losses.
Some kind of service with no employees and low over head would be good. But buying to resell...... Good luck.
Niche is where it's at, regardless of industry.
Get on that primary arms dealer program. That would be the way, if there was one.
Or you could just spend less, cut the fat, and go camping a little more often and not worry about a side gig.
And like Euro says, the bean counting is the best part......... Unfortunately, he's 100% right. Business live and die in the P&L. It's less about what you like and what's your passion, and more about a running business.
I was that. Kicked ass at what I did. I sucked at the business game. Can your afford to hire a guy like euro to do that? Here's your bill for month of ..........$4,000
Go for it. What the hell right?
I might try again, but not anytime soon. I'm enjoying the **** out of life for a change.
Good luck. Your going to need it.
This sounds very similar. Waiting for some final ATF transfers then I'm going to close my small storefront.
Want to know how to make a million dollars owning a gun store? Start with two million!
SeriousStudent
07-14-16, 20:27
As said several times, if you want to make money on the side, sell a service. I use to do taxes on the side
This. My side business is that I sell knowledge. I pimp my own IT geek skills by doing what I call a sanity check on other people's projects. They give me their project plans, I review them, write a report, and everyone is happy.
The tax thing is good, too. I used to do 1040-EZ forms for a case of beer when I was in the military. Officers got charged a handle jug of hard liquor.
Eurodriver
07-14-16, 20:28
Says the accountant.....
I'm in the that sucks extraordinarily group. But I'm a bit jaded. Seems like everyone except me got to make money off my small business.
I saw really good guys start a business and they know the industry inside and out. They know everything there is to know about the product they're selling and the market, but have absolutely zero interest and knowledge about how to run a business. I can tell you don't fit in that category, you get it, but so many don't.
The problem is when you're running a business you have 729,432 other things to do that leave you without any time to do the essentials. And having a good P&L and the skills to read exactly what it's telling you is in many ways more important than industry knowledge.
Jack Welch didn't know shit about Refrigerators or light bulbs; he still doesn't.
SilverBullet432
07-14-16, 20:37
If anything, mow lawns in the weekend. Most folks have a lawnmower weed eater and leaf blower. Or a mobile car wash. Lots of those guys around here.
This sounds very similar. Waiting for some final ATF transfers then I'm going to close my small storefront.
Want to know how to make a million dollars owning a gun store? Start with two million!
I've kicked around the idea of something firearms related. I actually have one main idea, as a manufacture that there seems to be a total void in.
If I was ever to try retail fire arms accessories, the primary arms dealer program would be it. Get access to all their brands. If it's set up right, you wouldn't even have carry much stock. Just drop ship everything.
I have some machining experience. Dabbled in cnc and master cam about 10 years ago. Thing is, even to go get a cheap 3 axis, and a place to run it is more than I want to invest, for now.
My business wasn't retail, it was farming. But I know enough people in retail, and have bought enough crap on Amazon to know that that's a tough one to hang with. Bought a door wire harness for my truck. It was 60$ less than the exact same harness from basically anywhere. Half of dealer. Certain items is a whores market and they are dead even. But some items they are so cheap on it's retarded.
They sell brand new headlights, cheaper than I can buy at salvage.
My business failure was a combination of many things. I paid to much, got involved with shit people because I couldn't say no, and the market went though a shock wave that left smoldering ash everywhere. I know of many, many 2,3 and 4th generation dairy farmers that didn't survive this last go around. I was lucky in the fact I only wasted 5 years and not a life time. I could have sourced some financing. Even hard money. But given the losses I was pulling in, I ran a very solid chance of a fatty bankruptcy. Screw that...... For what? So I quit while I still could.
I know everyone says risk reward blah blah. But man tread lightly. I think having good job is important to anything else you try to do business wise. If you go full time, can your spouse support the entire family by themselves? Can they still if things go to shit? I'd say if it's a business that requires any real capital and overhead, plan a minimum of 5 years, no return.
Plus, you get to pay for a building, hvac, insurance, power, light, on and on. Then if you ever get an employee, that's a whole bullshit deal on it's own. Taxes, unemployment insurance, work comp, supplies. Your in small margin deal anyway? And yet h you have to go pay for all kinds of stuff, that doesn't do a damn thing. Then you have wreck, you need to file an insurance claim. Guess what? Your didn't have that specific coverage cause your dick head agent sold you the wrong shit, and he says it's your fault, cause you didn't read the fine print in the policy...... But that's why I pay you..... I lost 35k on that one. (My fault for not knowing better)
Trusted 2 guys that I knew a long time for certain things. They wouldn't possibly steer me wrong..... Lost 43k there. (My fault for not knowing better)
Let's say you end up in some nice lawsuits. I spent another 25k there. Best part was I never really went to court. Farthest I ever got was pre trial hearing. So basically 25k for ass ache, nasty grams, strongly worded letters, more ass ache, nasty phone calls. That type of shit. I the end, I ended up doing exactly what I said I would do. But shit people aren't cool most of the time.
Lighting that money on fire would have been so much more satisfying. Instead, nothing. Just paying a crappy paralegals wage, a shit receptionists wage, and probably some nice vacations for the liars.
You can sign all of the contracts in the world. A contract is only as good as the people you sign then with. Pro tip.
At least as an upside, I pretty well do my own legal shit now. No reason to not speak for myself. Plus a can write my own nasty grams back for $0 an hour, instead of 200$ an hour that some lawyer had typed by a paralegal for 17$ an hour that's full of typos and punctuation shit that a 7th grader could do better with. (I had some really, really awesome landlords. So awesome, that their children moved ad far away as possible just to not deal with their shit.)
This sounds very similar. Waiting for some final ATF transfers then I'm going to close my small storefront.
Want to know how to make a million dollars owning a gun store? Start with two million!
True in many ways. The most enlightening time as a FFL / SOT was when I was actually making more money selling airsoft crap. This was back when Tokyo Maru stuff costs about the same as a real firearm, but if you sold an actual AR-15 the markup potential was 5-10% (keeping in mind that many folks actually expected to pay dealer price + $25 transfer) on airsoft stuff the markup potential was more like 20% and those customers bought a shit ton of BDUs, Blackhawk gear and the like. But it was a short duration event that lasted a couple years and enforcement of MAP pricing brought that to an end and gave the market to the second hand dealers who weren't subject to MAP.
Used guns can be lucrative, especially if you run a pawn shop business model and offer everyone 20% of the firearms actual value. Then put it on Gunbroker at a $1 start and it will sell for about half of what it should be worth but you doubled your investment so who cares.
I saw really good guys start a business and they know the industry inside and out. They know everything there is to know about the product they're selling and the market, but have absolutely zero interest and knowledge about how to run a business. I can tell you don't fit in that category, you get it, but so many don't.
The problem is when you're running a business you have 729,432 other things to do that leave you without any time to do the essentials. And having a good P&L and the skills to read exactly what it's telling you is in many ways more important than industry knowledge.
Jack Welch didn't know shit about Refrigerators or light bulbs; he still doesn't.
You haven't even been an accountant that long. I'll bet you've seen it many times Already.
It's easy to get caught in the romance of it. Everyone likes the ideas, me included.
But business is no joke. I've heard so many times, "I'd love to not have a boss". And see, that's bullshit. You trade a boss, for 15 bosses. Do this by this date, your report tax report was late, here'sa 120 dollar fine. Your banker gets pissed when things don't go to plan. "Why didn't your budget work?" Well, hard to account for a 50-70 cost increase in my materials from drought, a 30% drop in income, cause the market is flooded cause barry our muslim in chief decided to play slap the pee pee with the Russians and pretty well disturb the delicate balance of a global perishsble commodity.
It gets real sporty when a regional AG calls and says they are going to do a non monetary foreclosure on you....(yes, it's a thing, because reasons........we don't need any.... Thank god for another gov employee that tries to curb the bloodlust of an deputy AG.
But like euro said, if I had put more time and effort into the office side, maybe it'd been better. Ya, I'll squeeze that into the time slot, called fat effing chance, get back to work beotch.... 729,432 is an accurate number based on my experience.
I hate being that guy in this thread. It's just that the real world, and what sounds cool are two different things.
You haven't even been an accountant that long. I'll bet you've seen it many times Already.
It's easy to get caught in the romance of it. Everyone likes the ideas, me included.
But business is no joke. I've heard so many times, "I'd love to not have a boss". And see, that's bullshit. You trade a boss, for 15 bosses. Do this by this date, your report tax report was late, here'sa 120 dollar fine. Your banker gets pissed when things don't go to plan. "Why didn't your budget work?" Well, hard to account for a 50-70 cost increase in my materials from drought, a 30% drop in income, cause the market is flooded cause barry our muslim in chief decided to play slap the pee pee with the Russians and pretty well disturb the delicate balance of a global perishsble commodity.
It gets real sporty when a regional AG calls and says they are going to do a non monetary foreclosure on you....(yes, it's a thing, because reasons........we don't need any.... Thank god for another gov employee that tries to curb the bloodlust of an deputy AG.
But like euro said, if I had put more time and effort into the office side, maybe it'd been better. Ya, I'll squeeze that into the time slot, called fat effing chance, get back to work beotch.... 729,432 is an accurate number based on my experience.
I hate being that guy in this thread. It's just that the real world, and what sounds cool are two different things.
It's all true.
Knowing everything about anything HK is fine and dandy for correcting facts at the gunshow, but when it comes to tax time, you better know what you are doing and how to do it without raising dozens of red flags.
I was the "life is too short" and "I just can't work for people dumber than me" guy. I honestly believed that it would be better to work for myself, that way I'm the only one who can screw it up. And I made a decent go of it and even though I had to literally chase every dollar it was mine and a chance to see if my ideas would actually work in the real world.
And I had lots of great ideas that all worked to some degree or another, problem is it was a time of huge transition. Every two years the market changed enough that I had to come up with an entirely different business model and plan. Lucky for me I was pretty adaptable and from 1999 to about 2009 I had built up something pretty respectable and put some important pieces in the gun safe.
But none of it mattered, a finely tuned business that was self sustaining was no match for the Obama economy and the bottom completely dropped out. I spent a few years trying to rescue it with my own personal bailout - my savings, in an effort to weather the storm but it just went on forever. Even today prices for a Colt AR-15 are LESS than what they were selling for in 2007 and the actual dealer markup is razor thin.
Thankfully I didn't lose everything like some people, but I lost a LOT. And this wasn't something like a volatile stock market or a 401k that tanks and eventually recovers. This was all my eggs in one basket that I busted my ass around the clock to make something from nothing. And just when it seemed I was about to go to the next level, the floor fell out from under me.
Could have been worse. Could have gone through all that heartache selling something I didn't even care about like home appliances. Could have busted my ass building another guys business to have it all fail and wonder if I could have done better myself. Could still be trying to function in a PC office environment full of reprehensible people I despise with personal advancement based upon how well I can pretend to respect and admire them.
I don't see where I had much choice, I was running out of options and it was something I knew and I had some unique contacts that provided a significant advantage other dealers didn't have at the time.
I'm still operating a niche business for meager profits but that's an improvement over a few years ago. I didn't get rich quick, but I learned a lot more about guns than I knew when I started and I made some good friends and had some good times.
Whacked the nail on the head there.
I dabbled in the online accessory selling game a few years back, and.... it sucked.
The dealer prices were shit, and here I was seeing all the sales on stuff and thinking there was actually room to make a profit....:rolleyes:
And then after shipping there are fees, fees, fees, and then just for a change of pace... fees, for any possible method of selling online.
Add the fact that the accessory market is VERY saturated.
After a month, I thankfully saw the writing on the wall, dumped everything for whatever I could get and got the hell out, *just* breaking even on my initial investment.
FML. :(
You want to know how to make money on gun parts?
Buy shitloads of mags, ammo, BCGs, and other useful parts at current sale prices, stack 'em up in your basement, and wait for congress to come back in session.
If only I had had the sense to do THAT years ago, I'd have made out like a filthy bandit.
But now I get to play like everyone else and run around trying to get my own shit straight instead of laughing at the silly rabbits while rolling in my swimming pool of greenbacks while diaphanous damsels frolic about and fan me with one of those big feather fans...
And despite what I just said, I still want to do some sort of gun/gear/shooting related "thing" as a business, even if only a side one.
I'd love to open a *real* range, with some "outside the box" options your standard "spray and pray with the gomers at 25" ranges don't have, that serious shooter could take advantage of, or host classes by known folks, run events, etc.
Got a pretty good idea in mind, but.... I'd need $78k just to buy land/build the damn thing.
I'd love to run (or AI) some training classes, which I know I could do. It would legitimately be a side business as the market for training aside for "zero for huntin' seasin' around here is small, but it would be fun to do a couple classes every couple months, and maybe I'd make some pocket money on the side.
But you either need to be a SEAL with street cred, or have appropriate certifications, and since I'm not a SEAL, and I'm about to go a few rounds with the NRA over them losing my shit from a previous certification class.... not looking good.
I am literally chomping at the bit to start a soft (tactical) gear company. I know I've got enough decent original ideas to have a siolid starting product lineup.
But there doesn't seem to be an "art of the dynamic sewing machine" series to get started with personally, and from feelers I've put out, it seems having production run contract to an established gear manufacturer, especially if prototyping is needed, is just going to be another fat wad of cash I'll be pissing away.
So....
I guess I'm just fubar'd all the way around. :suicide:
Best way to approach that is to proto an idea and sell it to somebody. Unless it's such a good, revolutionary idea that people are willing to pay a shitload of cash for it.
Even then, I'd sell it for royalties...
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If you think spending 10 grand to make $800 is worthwile, then the firearms business is for you.
Just don't but anything you're not willing to keep.
Best way to approach that is to proto an idea and sell it to somebody. Unless it's such a good, revolutionary idea that people are willing to pay a shitload of cash for it.
Even then, I'd sell it for royalties...
We watch Shark Tank. The things they talk about re: licensing and royalties, etc. They are gazillionares for a reason.
We watch Shark Tank. The things they talk about re: licensing and royalties, etc. They are gazillionares for a reason.
Lol...yeah. It never ceases to amaze me the people who turn down offers to scale, preferring instead to go it alone because their product is "their baby".
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Moose-Knuckle
07-16-16, 03:34
That sounds like a pretty good idea, a lot of places won't touch used car seats, etc. because they are safety equipment. I found this out when I tried to drop off some high-end car seats at Goodwill.
I guess Goodwill and the like don't want to be held liable for defective child safety seats and or improper use by the parents.
However I bet there are PDs/SOs/CPS/etc. that would gladly accept donated car seats for transport of infants and toddlers.
Moose-Knuckle
07-16-16, 03:40
You guys should check out this bio-pic about a single mother who struggled on one income then invented the no touch mop and built a dynasty of consumer products. After shading dealings with investors once she hit the big time she became an inventor advocate who helped countless people bring their ideas to life and profit from them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR-2TiQVY-k
Best way to approach that is to proto an idea and sell it to somebody. Unless it's such a good, revolutionary idea that people are willing to pay a shitload of cash for it.
Even then, I'd sell it for royalties...
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Yeah, from what I can tell of the tactical gear scene, unless you come up with some kickass new PC design that can top an AVS/Strandhogg/Aero, there's no shitloads of cash waiting to happen. *Maybe* the outdoor scene if you came up with the best pack ever or something.
That being said, I would happily let another company produce/sell the stuff I've been kicking around, just to see it get produced. I'm kind of at the mindset of, I'd rather see the item get made, and get it on the open market for everyone to actually use, and receive a small kickback on sales, then try and horde the idea all to myself 'cause it's "mine" and I want "all the dollarz!" and never do anything with it, because frankly, I really don't have any way to make it happen.
I mean, in all honesty I'm not even sure how I'd work prototyping on some of this stuff which is FAR to complex for myself or anyone I know to sew up.
So, it's really a lot of wishful thinking on my part. :shrug:
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