View Full Version : Free float dissipator?
Just got a lightweight dissipator upper and not quite sure what handguard to put on it. I love the kmr-a and am converting all my rifles to them. Problem is that I'm not seeing a 12" one offered. So, should I just leave well enough alone and throw some moe handguards on it? I would much rather have a keymod rail though. What are y'alls thoughts?
Renegade04
07-14-16, 18:31
Throw an M5 RAS on it and call it done.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/018_zpse84637c3.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/018_zpse84637c3.jpg.html)
That's a good looking rifle renegade. Definitely something to think over.
Hi, I think it would depend on your budget, if the KMR is within it I dont think you'd go wrong. I started my first AR build and I just picked up the KMRA in 15". It's lightweight and thin. When I was looking around the KMR was on the ligther side of the competition; I think I only saw 1-2 ligther and that's comparing everything from UTG-Noveske. But slapping on some Magpuls on that Dissipator won't be heavy either and with all the mlok accessories out there you can mount what you'd like with the magpul as well. I dont believe they make a 12 it's 10 then 13. I say let your budget decide as multiple rifles will add up if you want to swap them all. But my KMRA15 is about the same weight as my 8"free float from anderson.
Thanks. I've got a kmr alpha 15 on a rifle already and love it. Getting ready to order a 9 for my bcm middy. The 15 is what sold my on them. Light, sturdy. The original kmr seems to be non existent these days. My budget is sub $200.
Throw an M5 RAS on it and call it done.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/018_zpse84637c3.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/018_zpse84637c3.jpg.html)
What makes your rifle a dissipator?
The originals where 20" barrels cut down to 16" with the FSB still at the rifle position (closer to the muzzle now after being cut) but still using rifle length gas tubes. They had issues now they I see complete upper dissipators using 16" barrels and using carbine or midlength low profile gas blocks under the handguard, BUT a fixed FSB at the rifle length position. Basically a dissipator gives you a long sight radius like a rifle but short barrel.
Mine is a spikes lightweight dissipator with pinned low profile midlength system.
flanntastic
07-14-16, 20:05
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/flanntastic/aim/Screenshot%20at%20Jul%2014%2021-03-08_zpsmmidfion.png
Bryan
That thing is sexy, is that a MI mlok handguard? How was the install and any issue with rotation?
Ok that seals it. Midwest it shall be. Thanks folks!
flanntastic
07-14-16, 20:24
Bryan
That thing is sexy, is that a MI mlok handguard? How was the install and any issue with rotation?
yes, MI Mlok, I have had no problems with it, and its light!
That is exactly what I wanted. The thing I like most about the kmr though is the method of securing it. How secure is the mi?
kontonChaos
07-19-16, 15:02
Could you show a close up of the gap between the FSB and handguard. And is that a true or mock dissipator?
flanntastic
07-19-16, 21:35
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/flanntastic/aim/20160719_222604_zpstsbd3lot.jpg
its a true improved Dissy, pinned gas block at middy, and the FSB is pinned
its a true improved Dissy, pinned gas block at middy, and the FSB is pinned
Actually, that makes it a mock Dissipator....
A true Dissipator keeps the gas port at the rifle length position, as was the original Colt 605.
Mine is a "mock" as well. Better mousetrap in my opinion.
flanntastic
07-20-16, 11:35
I call mine the improved dissy
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Mike Miller
07-20-16, 20:32
I cut a 13" EMR V1 to 12.625" on my rifle behind a fixed FSB. No pics at the moment but I got it for like $85 and it locks up tight. There is enough room on the end that the last MLOK slot still has enough solid material in front of it after the cut to safely mount something (in my case, a sling mount)
Renegade04
07-21-16, 07:28
What makes your rifle a dissipator?
It is more of what you would really describe as a "mock" Dissipator. What makes it a Dissipator, by today's definition, is that it has a mid-length gas system (via a low profile gas block), but utilizes a non-functional FSB w/endcap that allows the use of rifle length handguards. Bear in mind, I do know what a true Dissipator is. I have one.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/Model%20605/017_zpsg0mwak0c.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/Model%20605/017_zpsg0mwak0c.jpg.html)
As far as I can tell there is no such thing as a "Colt 605 Dissipator" and all the "mock" talk is just something made up at TOS.
I don't recall ever hearing the term "Dissipator" before Bushmaster made the carbine gas model.
So who makes a good mock or modified dissy barrel (16" LW barrel with midlength pinned gas block and a rifle length faux pinned FSB)?
Looks like Spikes makes a good URG, but doesn't sell the barrel on it's own. Also looks like Sionics may have at one point made one. But there's nothing out there right now that's decent unless you want to have Kreiger or some other barrel manufacturer custom turn one for you.
Renegade04
07-21-16, 10:54
As far as I can tell there is no such thing as a "Colt 605 Dissipator" and all the "mock" talk is just something made up at TOS.
I don't recall ever hearing the term "Dissipator" before Bushmaster made the carbine gas model.
True. The Colt Model 605 was not termed a Dissipator. It was Colt's first attempt at a carbine. It was not until decades later that the term "Dissipator" was used for an AR with a 16" barrel and utilizing rifle-length handguards. BTW, "Dissipator" is owned by Bushmaster. These days, most all Dissipators are using a carbine or mid-length gas system. Bushmaster did release the first one with a carbine gas system, but that was because the mid-length gas system had not come out until years later. Most all Dissipators these days are, as was mentioned, "mock" Dissipators. The Colt Model 605 is the truest example of a real Dissipator. A real Dissipator type AR would have a 16" barrel with a rifle-length gas system and a fixed FSB. This is why Dissipator barrels are sold this way. Bushmaster's Dissipator was based on the Colt Model 605. You have to remember that the Model 605 used a cut-down 20" barrel. There was nothing done to the gas port. This is why it resulted in a poor performing weapon and was scrapped. Since then, others have figured out the issue and solved it by opening up the gas port. On a 20" 1/12 pencil barrel, the gas port is opened up to .110". This setup works great. Dissipators, or what many call "mock" Dissipators, typically use the carbine and mid-length gas systems because they are easier to work with. Only a couple companies sell a true 16" rifle-length gas system Dissipator barrel.
True. The Colt Model 605 was not termed a Dissipator. It was Colt's first attempt at a carbine. It was not until decades later that the term "Dissipator" was used for an AR with a 16" barrel and utilizing rifle-length handguards. BTW, "Dissipator" is owned by Bushmaster. These days, most all Dissipators are using a carbine or mid-length gas system. Bushmaster did release the first one with a carbine gas system, but that was because the mid-length gas system had not come out until years later. Most all Dissipators these days are, as was mentioned, "mock" Dissipators. The Colt Model 605 is the truest example of a real Dissipator. A real Dissipator type AR would have a 16" barrel with a rifle-length gas system and a fixed FSB. This is why Dissipator barrels are sold this way. Bushmaster's Dissipator was based on the Colt Model 605. You have to remember that the Model 605 used a cut-down 20" barrel. There was nothing done to the gas port. This is why it resulted in a poor performing weapon and was scrapped. Since then, others have figured out the issue and solved it by opening up the gas port. On a 20" 1/12 pencil barrel, the gas port is opened up to .110". This setup works great. Dissipators, or what many call "mock" Dissipators, typically use the carbine and mid-length gas systems because they are easier to work with. Only a couple companies sell a true 16" rifle-length gas system Dissipator barrel.
This is way off topic, but I'd still love a technical conversation over why the dissipator setup isn't more popular today.
It seems like there's a lot of myth that needs to be busted around the whole "dwell time" thing. We know that in a 20" rifle barrel with rifle length gas system, that "dwell time" keeps the system under pressure to allow the gas to get back to the bolt carrier with enough pressure to do it's magic. But that's with the standard gas port. We also know that systems with no dwell time whatsoever work just fine as long as the gas port is open enough to allow enough gas to get back there (think the Mk 18 style 10.3" barrels). But I'm not sure how this translates to longer barrels. 12.5" with mid-length, 14.5" with intermediate style lengths and 16", rifle lengths, etc…
The trend lately "seems" to be that the longer the gas system, the smoother the recoil impulse. Look at the work that KAC did for example in their own intermediate length (that they use for both 14.5" and 16") that's longer than mid-length. There's other companies, I think LVOA or Salient that was doing something similar. But it doesn't seem to be as popular as I'd expect and I've always wondered with longer barrels if there's a point of diminishing returns.
I think it'd be really interesting to shoot a 16" with rifle-length gas that's ported properly and understand how it compares to a carbine or mid-length. Is it smoother but less reliable? Just wish there was more info around it but it doesn't seem to be something that people try very often.
So who makes a good mock or modified dissy barrel (16" LW barrel with midlength pinned gas block and a rifle length faux pinned FSB)?
Looks like Spikes makes a good URG, but doesn't sell the barrel on it's own. Also looks like Sionics may have at one point made one. But there's nothing out there right now that's decent unless you want to have Kreiger or some other barrel manufacturer custom turn one for you.
Getting a barrel isn't that complicated. Many profiles exist that are larger than .625 at the muzzle. You would have to spin it down to 5/8ths but that wouldn't have to be done by someone in Kreiger's league.
Since Bushmaster coined the term "Dissipator", wouldn't a true Dissipator be with a carbine gas system?
Personally, I think this whole"mock" Dissy thing is silly.
Yeah, I know I could send a mid-length government profile barrel to ADCO. It would be $185 to have them reprofile forward of the gas block and then taper pin a FSB to the barrel. That's in addition to the price of a decent barrel that I'd have to either supply or buy from them.
Preferably, I'd like to find someone that makes a dissy that I can buy outright since it's almost always cheaper and better to buy it like you want it instead of buying something and then paying someone to modify it.
Plus, I'm worried about turning a barrel post heat treat and stress relieving. Seems like that could pose some issues. But ADCO does seem GTG with their gunsmithing, so it'd probably be fine.
Getting a barrel isn't that complicated. Many profiles exist that are larger than .625 at the muzzle. You would have to spin it down to 5/8ths but that wouldn't have to be done by someone in Kreiger's league.
Renegade04
07-21-16, 15:57
Yeah, I know I could send a mid-length government profile barrel to ADCO. It would be $185 to have them reprofile forward of the gas block and then taper pin a FSB to the barrel. That's in addition to the price of a decent barrel that I'd have to either supply or buy from them.
Preferably, I'd like to find someone that makes a dissy that I can buy outright since it's almost always cheaper and better to buy it like you want it instead of buying something and then paying someone to modify it.
Plus, I'm worried about turning a barrel post heat treat and stress relieving. Seems like that could pose some issues. But ADCO does seem GTG with their gunsmithing, so it'd probably be fine.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-freedom-stainless-steel-1-7-moe-dissipator-without-bcg-or-charging-handle-43632.html
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-freedom-stainless-steel-1-7-dissipator-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html
http://www.windhamweaponry.com/shopexd.asp?id=474#axzz4F4vZhXB4
ColtSeavers
07-21-16, 16:22
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-freedom-stainless-steel-1-7-moe-dissipator-without-bcg-or-charging-handle-43632.html
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-freedom-stainless-steel-1-7-dissipator-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html
http://www.windhamweaponry.com/shopexd.asp?id=474#axzz4F4vZhXB4
Not trying to be rude, but maybe I'm missing something?
Mid length gas
Mid length gas
Carbine length gas
I thought the point of this thread was rifle length gas 16"?
Does anyone produce a 'true' (16" barrel with rifle length gas system) dissipator barrel/upper?
I personally do not see the point of a less than rifle length gas system covered up by rifle length handguard/rail only to be 'capped off' with a fixed FSGB.
Not trying to be rude, but maybe I'm missing something?
Mid length gas
Mid length gas
Carbine length gas
I thought the point of this thread was rifle length gas 16"?
Does anyone produce a 'true' (16" barrel with rifle length gas system) dissipator barrel/upper?
I personally do not see the point of a less than rifle length gas system covered up by rifle length handguard/rail only to be 'capped off' with a fixed FSGB.
DPMS does with their TAC2, but unknown on function.
Renegade04
07-21-16, 16:57
Not trying to be rude, but maybe I'm missing something?
Mid length gas
Mid length gas
Carbine length gas
I thought the point of this thread was rifle length gas 16"?
Does anyone produce a 'true' (16" barrel with rifle length gas system) dissipator barrel/upper?
I personally do not see the point of a less than rifle length gas system covered up by rifle length handguard/rail only to be 'capped off' with a fixed FSGB.
Personally, I do not know of anyone selling a proper Dissipator upper assembly with a 16" rifle-length gas system barrel. Pretty much have to build on one your own if you want that.
ColtSeavers
07-21-16, 17:09
Thank you both Viper and Renegade.
Not trying to be rude, but maybe I'm missing something?
Mid length gas
Mid length gas
Carbine length gas
I thought the point of this thread was rifle length gas 16"?
Does anyone produce a 'true' (16" barrel with rifle length gas system) dissipator barrel/upper?
I personally do not see the point of a less than rifle length gas system covered up by rifle length handguard/rail only to be 'capped off' with a fixed FSGB.
That combination, 16" barrel/rifle gas system, does not work all that well. CLGS or MLGS are more versatile and reliable.
Not trying to be rude, but maybe I'm missing something?
Mid length gas
Mid length gas
Carbine length gas
I thought the point of this thread was rifle length gas 16"?
Does anyone produce a 'true' (16" barrel with rifle length gas system) dissipator barrel/upper?
I personally do not see the point of a less than rifle length gas system covered up by rifle length handguard/rail only to be 'capped off' with a fixed FSGB.
The point is rifle length sights on the 16" barrel. Sight radius.
My brother had a 17.5" a2 built by adco that worked well except with wolf in the winter. It was very smooth. They recommended against any shorter since they get finicky. I'd suspect the gas port spec becomes very critical.
ColtSeavers
07-21-16, 23:17
That combination, 16" barrel/rifle gas system, does not work all that well. CLGS or MLGS are more versatile and reliable.
Thank you for the additional information.
The point is rifle length sights on the 16" barrel. Sight radius.
I get that, my issue is if you're already going to cover the gas block with a rail/handguard that's longer than it, why not simply put a sight on the rail? I do understand that a front sight on the rail will never quite be as exact as a sight mounted to the barrel itself, but having to ensure a second A2 it properly taper pinned plus the additional weight. Meh, I'll just chalk it up to personal preference.
My brother had a 17.5" a2 built by adco that worked well except with wolf in the winter. It was very smooth. They recommended against any shorter since they get finicky. I'd suspect the gas port spec becomes very critical.
Between all the reports of 'true' (16" barrels with rifle length gas) dissipators being problematic and their apparent lack of contiued existence, I think they were right. It is in keeping with the continued proliferation of 18" rifle length gas barrels as well.
The only ones I heard of using rifle systems were a very long time ago and we're done for police departments with tight budget using .gov Gimme rifles. Gas ports were hogged out as well.
aznanimekid
07-21-16, 23:40
Personally, I do not know of anyone selling a proper Dissipator upper assembly with a 16" rifle-length gas system barrel. Pretty much have to build on one your own if you want that.
http://www.del-ton.com/Del_Ton_Barrels_p/bl1017.htm
DPMS used to but apparently not anymore. BHW also made a great barrel that addax used to build on but they no longer offer it for sale. I was lucky enough to snatch one and run it with a JP adjustable FSB on an A5 or JP SCS with a lightweight bcg as my fun gun.
Renegade04
07-22-16, 08:14
http://www.del-ton.com/Del_Ton_Barrels_p/bl1017.htm
DPMS used to but apparently not anymore. BHW also made a great barrel that addax used to build on but they no longer offer it for sale. I was lucky enough to snatch one and run it with a JP adjustable FSB on an A5 or JP SCS with a lightweight bcg as my fun gun.
I know that there are barrels available. The question was "Does anyone produce a 'true' (16" barrel with rifle length gas system) dissipator barrel/upper?"
Thank you for the additional information.
I get that, my issue is if you're already going to cover the gas block with a rail/handguard that's longer than it, why not simply put a sight on the rail? I do understand that a front sight on the rail will never quite be as exact as a sight mounted to the barrel itself, but having to ensure a second A2 it properly taper pinned plus the additional weight. Meh, I'll just chalk it up to personal preference.
Between all the reports of 'true' (16" barrels with rifle length gas) dissipators being problematic and their apparent lack of contiued existence, I think they were right. It is in keeping with the continued proliferation of 18" rifle length gas barrels as well.
I'm with you, hence my rifle is not a dissipator, but I can appreciate them. If I was going to run straight irons, I'd look into it, and they do look good, imo, bUT I prefer optics with buis.
aznanimekid
07-22-16, 09:32
I know that there are barrels available. The question was "Does anyone produce a 'true' (16" barrel with rifle length gas system) dissipator barrel/upper?"
http://www.del-ton.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=dissipator&Submit=Search ? They make them ready to go and in A2 config as well.
That Delton is a porky barrel
I know that there are barrels available. The question was "Does anyone produce a 'true' (16" barrel with rifle length gas system) dissipator barrel/upper?"
MicroMoa does
http://micromoa.com/16-rifle-gas-fluted-5-56-nato-1-7-sru-suppressor-ready-upper-with-alg-v3-m-lok-rail/
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
Renegade04
07-22-16, 16:56
MicroMoa does
http://micromoa.com/16-rifle-gas-fluted-5-56-nato-1-7-sru-suppressor-ready-upper-with-alg-v3-m-lok-rail/
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
Not a Dissipator upper assembly, however they do use a 16" barrel with a rifle gas system with it.
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