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Has Smith worked the bugs out of their full size M&P 9mm pistols? I refer to reliability and accuracy issues that many here once discussed. Can any one comment on the PRO 9 pistols of recent manufacture? I'm eyeballing one and might be tempted if they now have target accuracy.
What reliability issues were there?
Has Smith worked the bugs out of their full size M&P 9mm pistols? I refer to reliability and accuracy issues that many here once discussed. Can any one comment on the PRO 9 pistols of recent manufacture? I'm eyeballing one and might be tempted if they now have target accuracy.
S&W really hasn't had any reliability issues. The current production guns are more accurate than the older ones, but I would ALWAYS check out the barrel hood to slide fit (ideally below .004) before buying one.
Mass produced polymer guns (Glock, M&P, etc) are NOT target guns. So if you are looking for that level of accuracy, you won't find it. The closest exceptions to this rule would be anything from HK and Walther.
C4
If you want target go CZ. If you want combat accuracy the M&P is fine. I bought one from grant a few years ago and have not had any problems with it. I have shot USPSA and took several handgun training classes with it and I did not feel that the accuracy was to blame for my misses.
It's not as accurate as any of my CZ pistols but they were also more money.
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If you want target go CZ. If you want combat accuracy the M&P is fine. I bought one from grant a few years ago and have not had any problems with it. I have shot USPSA and took several handgun training classes with it and I did not feel that the accuracy was to blame for my misses.
It's not as accurate as any of my CZ pistols but they were also more money.
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Yeah, CZ makes VERY accurate pistols.
C4
If you want a target grade striker fired pistol I'd look hard at a PPQ.
Put a 10-8 rear sight on it and you should be good to go.
Yeah, CZ makes VERY accurate pistols.
C4
Would this remain the case with their Polymer pistols as well as their metal framed pistols?
I am interested in picking up a P09 (or P07, still undecided on that end, but it will be an HD gun most likely so am leaning towards the 09.), and I am genuinely interested.
As always, thanks for all your input Grant.
In .02, I haven't messed with M&Ps, only time I ever saw one is when I was under 21 and a Boss of mine wanted to show off and wound up unholstering in front of a group of people.
I sure learned a lot of DO NOTS around that Ol' Guy.
ETA: To clarify, it's not the story that changes my opinion of the firearm, jsut expressing I have little experience with them.
My personal opinion is that the metal frame CZ's are SLIGHTLY more accurate but the polymer guns are still some of the most accurate production pistols.
I have a P07, P09, P01, and a Shadow Custom. The P09 and the Shadow are easily the softest recoiling and most accurate out of the group.
Only problem is the stock triggers can be a bear to get used to but they break in nicely and putting CGW parts in makes a world of difference.
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Would this remain the case with their Polymer pistols as well as their metal framed pistols?
Yes.
C4
My personal opinion is that the metal frame CZ's are SLIGHTLY more accurate but the polymer guns are still some of the most accurate production pistols.
I have a P07, P09, P01, and a Shadow Custom. The P09 and the Shadow are easily the softest recoiling and most accurate out of the group.
Only problem is the stock triggers can be a bear to get used to but they break in nicely and putting CGW parts in makes a world of difference.
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Thanks for the details, appreciate the response.
I will certainly watch CGW in case I have issues with the stock trigger.
Yes.
C4
Thanks Grant, I will make sure to check out what GRT has in stock before committing to a purchase with another vendor. (won't be for another month or so anyhow)
Nonetheless, I will release my unintentional hijacking of the thread. Sorry OP. :cool:
The Dumb Gun Collector
07-20-16, 17:25
The M&Ps seem fairly well sorted now. I think they are as reliable as autoloaders get. I would put them ahead of CZ (and even Glock) in raw reliability. The CZ, however, would be more accurate.
About reliability within the M&P line, I remember that Texas DPS returned their first batch and backed out of the deal to adopt an M&P. I never knew the details and was not able to get straight answers from a couple DPS employees(friends) that might have known the facts. I suspect that the main complaint was perceived accuracy. With my background of having worked in state organizations big and small, I'm aware that money talks and B.S. walks, and at this point only God knows why Texas rejected this line. I flat out don't believe that Smith was dumb enough to endanger the Texas contract by sending out a first batch that was defective.
I own CZ, Colt, and Glock 9mm's in addition to a Shield that I enjoy carrying and shooting. Currently my LGS has a great deal on a new PRO 9, which has a wonderful trigger. The pistol feels really good in my hand, and the few times that I dry fired it at an imaginary spot on the wall, the sight picture did not wiggle or waver. I'm an old bulls eye shooter and life long 1911 enthusiast, and for me to say that a plastic gun has a wonderful trigger is a rare occurrence.
I have a few coins burning my pocket, and I'll end up buying a pistol that I want but not need. I just dread buying a pistol that might have reset/dead trigger problems or brass to the face issues or other nuisance concerns. I'd be happy to get a PRO 9 with a barrel giving me 5 inch 50 yard groups with good ammo. As an old grumpy, impatient man, I'll not waste much time shooting over a rest at paper. Instead I'll adopt my stunt shooting mode and shoot at orange painted, red food dye water filled gallon jugs at 100 yards while sitting in the front seat of my pick-up. Ammo will be Federal +P+ jhp from my sacred stash. I'll be able to determine very quickly if I consider the pistol to be suitable. Then I might shoot at paper.
brushy bill
07-20-16, 21:59
About reliability within the M&P line, I remember that Texas DPS returned their first batch and backed out of the deal to adopt an M&P. I never knew the details and was not able to get straight answers from a couple DPS employees(friends) that might have known the facts. I suspect that the main complaint was perceived accuracy. The only way I got acceptable accuracy from mine was a fitted storm lake barrel from Grant. Prior to that, it was essentially a shotgun beyond 10-15 yards, except each pellet was fired individually. Also, had to return to S&W due to dead trigger issues (not sure what they did based on the paperwork they provided). Once you add that to the cost in terms of time and money, IMHO you are better off with an HK VP9 or Glock or some other striker I don't have experience with, or go to a non-striker platform. YMMV. They say the new ones are better, but having been a Beta tester, I won't spend money with them again.
I have a newer one (manf date 09/14 IIRC).
Accuracy is more than acceptable for a poly duty/combat sidearm.
The trigger was OK until I added safeties on it, that was a huge problem. Once I got the Apex kit, all was right with the world again.
Been thru a bit more than 1k rounds, and I haven't had a malfunction that wasn't ammo related.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
About reliability within the M&P line, I remember that Texas DPS returned their first batch and backed out of the deal to adopt an M&P. I never knew the details and was not able to get straight answers from a couple DPS employees(friends) that might have known the facts. I suspect that the main complaint was perceived accuracy. With my background of having worked in state organizations big and small, I'm aware that money talks and B.S. walks, and at this point only God knows why Texas rejected this line. I flat out don't believe that Smith was dumb enough to endanger the Texas contract by sending out a first batch that was defective.
I own CZ, Colt, and Glock 9mm's in addition to a Shield that I enjoy carrying and shooting. Currently my LGS has a great deal on a new PRO 9, which has a wonderful trigger. The pistol feels really good in my hand, and the few times that I dry fired it at an imaginary spot on the wall, the sight picture did not wiggle or waver. I'm an old bulls eye shooter and life long 1911 enthusiast, and for me to say that a plastic gun has a wonderful trigger is a rare occurrence.
I have a few coins burning my pocket, and I'll end up buying a pistol that I want but not need. I just dread buying a pistol that might have reset/dead trigger problems or brass to the face issues or other nuisance concerns. I'd be happy to get a PRO 9 with a barrel giving me 5 inch 50 yard groups with good ammo. As an old grumpy, impatient man, I'll not waste much time shooting over a rest at paper. Instead I'll adopt my stunt shooting mode and shoot at orange painted, red food dye water filled gallon jugs at 100 yards while sitting in the front seat of my pick-up. Ammo will be Federal +P+ jhp from my sacred stash. I'll be able to determine very quickly if I consider the pistol to be suitable. Then I might shoot at paper.
I can't recall what problems TDPS had with their M&Ps, but when Todd Green tested one a few years back I recall that it was a very durable pistol until the slide cracked at like 55 or 60k, something like that. Even though he's passed away, I think you can still read his weekly entries on pistol-training.
I don't personally like the M&P, but if I were going to buy one, now would probably be when I would be least concerned about the accuracy issues. If you get one that doesn't meet your accuracy requirements and you really like the pistol, you can always get Apex to fit a barrel for you. Just a thought.
I keep hoping the supposed 2nd Gen M&P that was built for the MHS trials would solve the accuracy issues but I read recently that only the .40 version was submitted for testing. Has anyone heard more about this?
I purchased one last year after my agency switched to them. The specific gun I purchased was the 150922LE, which is a standard M&P9 with an additional factory threaded barrel in the box and 2 mags.As with any gun I purchase, I did my standard clean/lube regimen as I would if I was coming home from a day at the range. Lube was SLiP2000 EWL. My first mag at the range was with the threaded barrel and TiRant 9, and Fed American Eagle 147 gr ammo. First 50 round box of ammo I had 6 FTE's and 2 FTF's. 4 more 50 round boxes and no issues. Switched to the non-threaded barrel and almost identical malfunctions within the first few mags, it seemed to smooth out and finished the case of ammo without a hiccup. I now have about 5k through the gun, same ammo, most through the threaded barrel with the can attached. Only malfunctions Ive had since the first day out were related to a heavily carbonated piston assembly in the suppressor. Im not a fan of the trigger at all but havent changed anything since I want it the same as the work guns. If there was one place S&W could make an improvement it would be with the factory trigger, its kinda like snapping a limp carrot, long and mushy. It is reliable and hits what you want it to if you do your part.
Am quiet happy with my two M&Ps. My Pro shoots into 1 3/4" and my compact has actually done 1 3/8, both at 25 yards. These are bench rest at 25 yards with my 147 grain handloads. This is with their barrels. I have changed out the triggers but their was not much difference. I just like the new trigger geometry better.
They have had not missfeeds and have proven very reliable.
MountainRaven
07-30-16, 13:27
What reliability issues were there?
Early guns had extraction issues and dead trigger issues.
It does appear that the extraction issue - like the 9mm accuracy issue - crops up every now and again with new M&Ps (I have a buddy who has an M&P that he absolutely loves the accuracy of, that he's had Bowie Tactical work over the trigger on, but can't make it through a magazine before it runs into extraction problems).
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