View Full Version : What accuracy can I expect from budget SPR build.
The final parts are in the mail for my budget SPR build and I'm wondering what I should expect accuracy wise from it. This will be my first complete AR build. Here is the list of parts:
S&W m&p 15 lower
Dpms LPK with polished trigger
Anderson basic upper receiver
18" stainless barrel 223 wylde 1-7 twist from PSA rifle length gas system
15" free float rail
geissele gas block
3-9x40 Nikon prostaff in primary arms 1 piece mount
Ace entry stock with extension
Strike industry's j comp.
I know there is really no way to tell how the rifle would shoot but what are some realistic expectations? With match ammo, handloads? Bulk ammo? Thankyou.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Schmalkald
07-21-16, 18:07
You are asking this after you bought all this stuff? :confused:
You are asking this after you bought all this stuff? :confused:
Yes. I have slowly been acquiring this stuff over the past year as it has gone on sale. I'm just wondering what my expectations should be.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can pretty much expect to get what you paid for... Budget accuracy. Did you expect to get a free lunch?
Eurodriver
07-21-16, 18:32
I'll bite.
You want realistic expectations? That's tough. You didn't tell us your shooting ability, the distances you'd shoot at, or the ammo you're using.
For match grade, factory ammo and that setup with a decent shooter from the bench I would say you should get 10 rounds in under 1.5" at 100 yards. At 300 yards I would expect 5" at best.
Hand loads will do some work for you, maybe getting those 300 yard loads below 5", but it's wind and load dependent.
500 yards and beyond require skill with reading wind too much for me to guess. I presume if you were shooting this far you'd already know what to expect, and would have Gone for more mag with your optic. However you should be able to get consistent hits on an IPSC out to 600. We do that alllllll day with run of the mill DD 16" and 2.5-10s and BH 77gr
You can pretty much expect to get what you paid for... Budget accuracy. Did you expect to get a free lunch?
And there's this.
I'll bite.
You want realistic expectations? That's tough. You didn't tell us your shooting ability, the distances you'd shoot at, or the ammo you're using.
For match grade, factory ammo and that setup with a decent shooter from the bench I would say you should get 10 rounds in under 1.5" at 100 yards. At 300 yards I would expect 4" at best.
Hand loads will do some work for you, maybe getting those 300 yard loads below 4", but it's wind and load dependent.
500 yards and beyond require skill with reading wind too much for me to guess. I presume if you were shooting this far you'd already know what to expect.
And there's this.
Thankyou for the first actually response. I'll call myself a average shooter. From a bench with my handloads I can keep my savage 25-06 bolt gun around .75" at 100 yards. My other AR is a 16" CHF middy from PSA that I can keep on a pie plate at 100 yards. That using a MAtech rear and A2 front with nightsite post.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
556BlackRifle
07-21-16, 20:24
There are too many variables to say for sure. I'll say this though, cheap doesn't always mean it won't be accurate. I have a 20" DPMS bull barrel that out shoots both my Noveske barrels.
There are too many variables to say for sure. I'll say this though, cheap doesn't always mean it won't be accurate. I have a 20" DPMS bull barrel that out shoots both my Noveske barrels.
I'm just hoping for a rifle that will be MOG ( minute of ground hog) at up too 4-500 yards. The rifle will not see too much abuse and round count will probably only be 500 per year max.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'd call PSA and ask them what they want you to do for break-in.
My SPR consists of a ALG ACT, probably a PSA minus LPK, a 20" Wylde stainless from Green Mountain Barrels, a 15" ALG EMR (whatever version M-Lock with just a tube is) and a Primary Arms 4-14XFFP Mil Mil in some rings I bought at Cabella's
I followed the break-in with random 55gr and then started just shooting it with random 55gr. So far about 300 or so rounds through it and it just seems to be getting better.
What I'm doing now is buying up 60 round lots of match ammo to see what it likes to shoot - Next step a range day with each batch, shooting off the bench. So far everything has been either prone or sitting with a sling aside from 24 rounds I fired off a bipod in groups of 3 dialing the scope up and down to see if it was plumb.
In a couple weeks we can bump this back up and compare notes.
When it doesn't give you the accuracy you want spend the money for a proper Match grade barrel. That's the thing that I think will hold you back.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Shoot it and let us know.
Shoot it and let us know.
This. There are plenty of people with rra varmint barrels posting nice groups.
There may be problems that show with high volume shooting or reliability, but with the right match ammo, I'd expect around 1-1.5" 10 shot groups at 100yds. Could be less, could be more. Assuming it's made correctly, I'm sure you'll be happy with it. If not contact the manufacturer.
When reading responses here, keep in mind, a lot of people here only want a gun that can be depended on for 10s of thousands of rounds. For range and groundhog use, some people arent as concerned with bullet-proof reliabiltiy. Have fun and be safe.
This. There are plenty of people with rra varmint barrels posting nice groups.
There may be problems that show with high volume shooting or reliability, but with the right match ammo, I'd expect around 1-1.5" 10 shot groups at 100yds. Could be less, could be more. Assuming it's made correctly, I'm sure you'll be happy with it. If not contact the manufacturer.
When reading responses here, keep in mind, a lot of people here only want a gun that can be depended on for 10s of thousands of rounds. For range and groundhog use, some people arent as concerned with bullet-proof reliabiltiy. Have fun and be safe.
I'll be shooting mostly handloads through is this gun. More then likely 55 he vmax. I'll also work up a load with Hornady 75 grain match bullets to see what accuracy I can get out of the gun.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think you'll be very surprised if you bag it securely and have good technique.
Good ammo will make or break this configuration. Stack the odds with good handloads using match or benchrest bullets. Bulk ammo should make you feel good if your intent is just making noise and watching groundhogs and prairie dogs scamper and run around.
The trigger will do you no favors (you can get around this with good sand-bagging, good trigger technique and follow-through, and calm winds).
I know nothing about the quality or consistency of your scope choice but it's probably not bad.
Kansaswoodguy
07-22-16, 08:26
I have personnel experience with 4 PSA barrels similar to yours 3 of them shot around MOA out of the box. The fourth one was min of pie plate. I removed the flash hider and the crown was in terrible shape it almost looked like the crown tool was so dull it pushed metal into the bore all the way around the muzzle. I chucked up a screw into my hand drill applied a little valve lapping compound to the screw and lapped the muzzle until the burr was gone that gun now shoots around MOA also. For budget builds that shoot very well the DPMS stainless bull 223 Rem chambered barrels are very good I have two of that are very accurate. One of mine is a 1-9 twist 16" that shoots 75gr just fine.
fallenromeo
07-22-16, 12:31
As others said, just shoot it and see how it does. I don't have any personal experience with the PSA stainless wylde barrels. They may be sub MOA, they may be shit. One of the things that will certainly help you out would be a good trigger. Ditch the DPMS garbage and get an SSA-E. I know 200 on a trigger is not exactly budget, but it will make a huge difference in your gun for your purpose.
As others said, just shoot it and see how it does. I don't have any personal experience with the PSA stainless wylde barrels. They may be sub MOA, they may be shit. One of the things that will certainly help you out would be a good trigger. Ditch the DPMS garbage and get an SSA-E. I know 200 on a trigger is not exactly budget, but it will make a huge difference in your gun for your purpose.
A trigger upgrade will be in the future. The lower I'm using with the DPMS trigger lived on my first AR for a couple of years and a couple thousand rounds so it has slicked out pretty well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would GUESS thats an MOA gun, maybe 1.25. As was said the trigger will cause you some grief.
Dont be surprised if it takes 150-200 rounds for the barrel to settle in. I think my Krieger took somewhere in the 175 range before it was consistent(and I got my barrel during a time where CLE got a bad batch of Krieger barrels, so I was constantly second guessing was it me, the barrel or it just needed some rounds down range) and that was a very expensive hand lapped barrel. Once it settled in this barrel is a solid 1/2 MOA gun(or very slightly larger). I would put 100, if not 150, cheap 55g stuff through it to work the barrel some before moving on to precision loads. Throughout the process DONT use a copper bore cleaner, you can clean the barrel, just dont strip the copper. You are trying to get a small layer of copper built up into any machining imperfections in the barrel, as well as using same to remove high spots and any possible burrs. Only use copper cleaner when the accuracy drops off, which could be 500-1000 rounds, then you need to shoot 3-5 rounds through the clean barrel to re-copper it slightly and accuracy should come back.
For accuracy you will want to stick to one of 3 bullets(IMO): 77g SMK(or tipped), 77g Nosler Comp(clone of the SMK), 75g Hornady Match(not AMAX, wont fit AR mags). I know Molon shoots a lot of the 52g SMK for accuracy evaluations. This MIGHT be a better accuracy bullet for you(vs. the heavy weights) since you are contemplating the 55g VMAX for your varmit hunting. A better match so to speak.
I would GUESS thats an MOA gun, maybe 1.25. As was said the trigger will cause you some grief.
Dont be surprised if it takes 150-200 rounds for the barrel to settle in. I think my Krieger took somewhere in the 175 range before it was consistent(and I got my barrel during a time where CLE got a bad batch of Krieger barrels, so I was constantly second guessing was it me, the barrel or it just needed some rounds down range) and that was a very expensive hand lapped barrel. Once it settled in this barrel is a solid 1/2 MOA gun(or very slightly larger). I would put 100, if not 150, cheap 55g stuff through it to work the barrel some before moving on to precision loads. Throughout the process DONT use a copper bore cleaner, you can clean the barrel, just dont strip the copper. You are trying to get a small layer of copper built up into any machining imperfections in the barrel, as well as using same to remove high spots and any possible burrs. Only use copper cleaner when the accuracy drops off, which could be 500-1000 rounds, then you need to shoot 3-5 rounds through the clean barrel to re-copper it slightly and accuracy should come back.
For accuracy you will want to stick to one of 3 bullets(IMO): 77g SMK(or tipped), 77g Nosler Comp(clone of the SMK), 75g Hornady Match(not AMAX, wont fit AR mags). I know Molon shoots a lot of the 52g SMK for accuracy evaluations. This MIGHT be a better accuracy bullet for you(vs. the heavy weights) since you are contemplating the 55g VMAX for your varmit hunting. A better match so to speak.
Thankyou for the educated response. I'm still awaiting the brown Santa to show up so I can finish the build. I will post all pics and results in this thread. I plan to cycle through some ammo that have been loaded in mags for over a year to test/break in as soon as I get it built. The. After that I will shoot for groups to see what I can get. I already have all the components to make up some 75gr Hornady match loads with some reloader 15 on hand.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Another thing, when you build it, bed the extension into the upper with red loc-tite. Also bed the gas block to the barrel with red loc-tite.
There are arguments both ways, but both precision AR's I have built(which isnt a huge sample size) have been built this way. .223 SPR shoots 1/2 MOA. 6.5 creed shoots 1/2 groups and is consistent on a 6" plate at 900 yards.
When you look at the guys building precision AR's, namely GAP, they shim the barrels into the receiver extensions and I believe also bed them with something(maybe loc-tite, maybe something else). Another builder I talked to starts with a slightly over sized extension and turns it down little by little until they get a perfect fit. I believe they manufacture their own extensions for this purpose.
Another thing, when you build it, bed the extension into the upper with red loc-tite. Also bed the gas block to the barrel with red loc-tite.
There are arguments both ways, but both precision AR's I have built(which isnt a huge sample size) have been built this way. .223 SPR shoots 1/2 MOA. 6.5 creed shoots 1/2 groups and is consistent on a 6" plate at 900 yards.
When you look at the guys building precision AR's, namely GAP, they shim the barrels into the receiver extensions and I believe also bed them with something(maybe loc-tite, maybe something else). Another builder I talked to starts with a slightly over sized extension and turns it down little by little until they get a perfect fit. I believe they manufacture their own extensions for this purpose.
I thought you had to grease it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought you had to grease it?
not talking about the barrel nut. Put red loc-tite on the receiver extension and inside the upper, slide the barrel in, wipe the excess away that oozes out with rubbing alcohol or acetone. THEN grease the barrel nut threads and upper threads and run your torque sequence.
not talking about the barrel nut. Put red loc-tite on the receiver extension and inside the upper, slide the barrel in, wipe the excess away that oozes out with rubbing alcohol or acetone. THEN grease the barrel nut threads and upper threads and run your torque sequence.
You can also do this with green loctite
Kansaswoodguy
07-24-16, 14:19
I lock title my upper receiver to barrel extension together. I do not and would not recommend locktiting the gas block in place. If you feel the need to locktite the gasblock I would use the high temp locktite the red works fine for the receiver extension.
All the parts finally came in and I got it roughed together to see how everything fit together. I still have to put some more time in to get everything to spec. A little worried about the entry length buffer assembly and the rifle gas system. I'll take it to the range Tuesday and come back with a report. Sorry for the crappy basement pic it's currently thunderstorming.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160730/7dde3a61a8d022edb543e80ee01f9c2c.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
you wont be able to shoot that gun well with that short of a stock IMO. At least not prone. Even from a bench that wont be ideal. Your eye will also be quite low without a cheek riser.
I am a fan of the Luth-AR stocks for an inexpensive precision oriented stock. Ive also used the magpul MOE rifle fixed stock. The carbine fixed stock is way to short.
you wont be able to shoot that gun well with that short of a stock IMO. At least not prone. Even from a bench that wont be ideal. Your eye will also be quite low without a cheek riser.
I am a fan of the Luth-AR stocks for an inexpensive precision oriented stock. Ive also used the magpul MOE rifle fixed stock. The carbine fixed stock is way to short.
I'm sure this gun will evolve as I start to shoot it. The stock may look short but with the 1" extension and 1" butt pad it's about the same length as my MOE stock fully extended.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160730/656e9bedd7c9e32e3fb3056339e7fbdb.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Took the gun out for a quick function test after assembly. Bolt locks back on last rd and ran flawlessly through a 30rd mag of AE 55gr. My first time shooting with a Muzzle break of any kind and was I impressed with the lack of recoil and muzzle rise. You can really get some follow up shots extremely fast.
One thing that seemed out of the ordinary was the gas tube coming back into the upper receiver has some play? Is this normal? And it seems when locking up the bolt you can hear a metal in metal "ting" that does not sound like my other AR. Any opinions? I'll be taking it to the farm Tuesday to do some function testing with about 120rds of AE55gr then some accuracy testing with some 75gr hpbt reloads. I will report back.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The ping is perfectly normal (it's your gas tube ringing after locking up in the key). It's secured at the gas block so the aft end is free to vibrate.
The ping is perfectly normal (it's your gas tube ringing after locking up in the key). It's secured at the gas block so the aft end is free to vibrate.
Thanks for the answer. Just seemed off because my other Ar is much tighter.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the answer. Just seemed off because my other Ar is much tighter.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
possible misalignment??
any rubbing in the sides of the gas tube??
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
I noticed a definite ping sound when I went from a MOE handguard with FSB to a free floated rail. I figured it was the rail "ringing" slightly from the vibration of the bolt closing. If your other AR as pictured has a standard handguard vs. the rail on the new one you may be noticing the same thing.
**RANGE REPORT**
Back from a short trip to the farm to do some more testing and put the gun on paper for the first time.
I ran:
80 AE 55gr FMJ
30 75gr HPBT reloads
30 55gr Vmax reloads
20 AE 50gr tipped varmints
Of all the shooting I had absolutely no hiccups and the bolt locked back on every mag.
The accuracy results are as follows:
55gr AE: firing about 1 shot a second in strings of 20. Roughly averaging 4-5" groupings for 20 shot groups.
75gr HPBT reloads: slow fire five shot groups. Average of 2.75", best 2.0". Pretty disappointed with the results of this load but will try to work a load up for this bullet in the future.
55gr vmax reloads: five shot groups slow fire. Average 1.05", best .85". This will be my go too load for varmint hunting.
AE 50gr tipped varmint: 2 10 shot groups approx 1.5" to 1.75". Was just emptying a mag I had laying around of this stuff. It always seems to impress me for such a cheap factory loading.
Overall I am happy with the results of this build. Being my first complete build I'm happy to just have a functioning rifle. In the future I'm sure when funds allow I will build a more capable longer range rifle but for the time being this will serve well for varmints out to 2-300 yards. In the end this was a budget build based of a 99$ barrel.
Please feel free to share any remarks/comments/or criticisms. Thankyou.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kansaswoodguy
08-02-16, 20:09
What powder are you using for the 75gr reloads?
What powder are you using for the 75gr reloads?
Reloader 15..... Not sure if it's what I should be using but I had it on hand (25-06 75gr vmax loads) and if showed up in my Hornady reloading manual.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think you did fine for your first budget build. It ran reliable which is most important to me and found a load that shot MOA. Your good to go.
Now, get some h322 for your heavy bullets and Russian primers.
Congrats
PB
fedupflyer
08-03-16, 02:44
AR Comp and 75 g
40791
AR Comp and 75 g
40791
I actually have some AR comp laying around that I use for my 55gr reloads. I will put some together and test next time I'm at the range.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kansaswoodguy
08-03-16, 21:11
For 75's I like 8208 or 4895
The gun got its first use today. First I did a little shooting at 250 yards with the 55gr v max load. Only printed one group that measured around 3" but I was 5/5 on first shot hits on milk jugs that I setup from 150-300 yards for some ground hog practice. This evening I went back to the farm and walked around the freshly cut hay field. Ended up with two shots and two kills.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160811/6c497d3f2ef2741be198be01b92811c3.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kansaswoodguy
08-11-16, 18:45
Very nice
I bought 2 of there SS mid barrels not many rnds fired out of it yet but did fire a few 5 rnds for groups. A group of varmit loads 55 gn 4 of 5 rnds single hole 3/8 hole other than 3rd shot pulled... wasp issue. I was shooting with cheap 3x9 scope not zeroed just for groups, stock trigger on well shot in lower and not baged in. I'm happy with how it has shot, I hope other barrel performs as good. If it does I will probably stock up on a few more to replace as shot out. To say the least I was suprised with it.
you wont be able to shoot that gun well with that short of a stock IMO. At least not prone. Even from a bench that wont be ideal. Your eye will also be quite low without a cheek riser.
I am a fan of the Luth-AR stocks for an inexpensive precision oriented stock. Ive also used the magpul MOE rifle fixed stock. The carbine fixed stock is way to short.
Finally took your advice and ditched the carbine stock. Read a bunch of reviews online and got a pretty sweet deal on a Magpul ACS L stock. A little weary at first due to it being a adjustable stock but it provides a good cheek weld and locks down tight with no wobble.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160922/498e634745f99c2239581e7930715471.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nice.
I prefer longer stocks on precision guns, hence my suggestion of the rifle length stocks, but if the ACS-L is longer than that, think it was, ACE entry stock you had, should work well enough.
The ACS-L looks like it has a small shelf on the rear where you can bag it good enough.
Get you a rear bag(if you dont have one that is). My preferred is the Red Tac Gear bags. I run the smaller of the two sizes.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.