View Full Version : Trump RNC Speech
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-21-16, 22:05
He really is doing a pretty good job it seems to me. Imagine if he had actually been on teleprompters the last six months.
FlyingHunter
07-21-16, 22:07
Agreed. Much better delivery.
PatrioticDisorder
07-21-16, 22:19
Grand slam! He's the next POTUS!
He's better than Clinton, but that doesn't mean he's going to stop this country from going to shit.
He's better than Clinton, but that doesn't mean he's going to stop this country from going to shit.
Well just the same, if I had to bet a dollar on who is our best chance.
Coal Dragger
07-21-16, 22:39
Grand slam! He's the next POTUS!
Bwahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa
No he's not. Hillary will win, because the majority of our countrymen are morons who want handouts.
Bwahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa
No he's not. Hillary will win, because the majority of our countrymen are morons who want handouts.
Trump will win. There are a ton of democrats who hate the Clintons.
I caught the second half. It came across very well.
I want to believe........
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-21-16, 22:50
Win or lose, he at least put out a coherent and compelling argument for his candidacy.
So it ends and MSNBC talks about how long it was and the balloon drop schedule and called him red faced (racist!). That is pretty telling.
Hillary announces her VP first thing in the morning to try to squash this.
He did sound more Presidential, but we all know this is Ivanka's show.
She's like his Palpatine. Ih he does what she says, this might actually work out
Coal Dragger
07-21-16, 23:08
Trump will win. There are a ton of democrats who hate the Clintons.
Yep a lot of Democrats hate the Clintons, but they hate Trump even more. Plus they want their handouts, they want their illegal immigrants to gain citizenship and vote Democrat, they want more of the totalitarianism and centralized government that Hillary will bring.
In the end they'll suck it up and vote for that corrupt bitch.
Makes me wish a terminally ill, but still physically capable individual with the right skill sets could do something.
BoringGuy45
07-21-16, 23:33
He won the nomination by saying what many (most) people are thinking. However, to win it all, he's got to be cleaner, crisper, and, as much as I hate to say it, seem more like a politician. People say they want change and they're tired of the stuffed shirt oligarchy in Washington, but I know people well enough to know that change is very scary for the masses. The only reason Hillary is still up in the polls is because she represents the "safe and familiar" status quo. Trump can win, but he's got to hone his methods instead of coming across like someone's angry drunk uncle. That method got people fired up, but I think it's run its course. He can be somewhat un-PC still; I mean, he's going to be called a racist no matter what he says. According to the Democrats, anyone who opposes them is a racist. But he needs to be un-PC without it coming across as angry and asshole-ish. He's got to project an image to moderate middle class white America, which is the voting block that holds the keys to victory for both parties, that he's not going to turn this country upside down in either a good or bad way. He's got to convince them that he intends to only do away with the outrageous bullshit while keeping our current way of life in tact.
Finally, if he can slam Hillary in the debates, he's got an excellent chance.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-21-16, 23:41
I think Trump will take this win and just go back to his low-preparation/off-the-cuff style. You could see him go off script at times in the speech. He will screw it up. He's like a drunk that sees how going sober is better, but thinks that they can dip back into the liquor and keep things in control. Trump's self-defeating addiction is his pride. He is not going to be controlled.
If the DEms were smart, they would goad him into going off script. His core message didn't change, it was the wording. From 'I won't let muslims in' to 'we will not accept people from countries that have been over run by terror organisations and we can't properly vet people'.
He's your drunk uncle that it becomes not if, but when will he screw up the family function.
That is the break point with the debates. Can he stick to well reasoned and thought out positions delivered in clear language, or will be just make shit up. Who knows who will show up, but I bet in at least one debate he will leave everyone scratching their heads as to who showed up.
There is some kind of Jekyll and Hyde thing going on with him that won't allow him to win.
sidewaysil80
07-21-16, 23:57
I really hope he wins. As bad as our society and country have gotten in the last eight years, I can't fathom nor want to live in whats left after 4-8 years of Hillary.
Side note, very well played. Twice tonight the RNC seemed more accepting to the LGBTQ community than it has in the past. Keep it up, reach out to everyone and break this damned stigma that we are all middle aged white male racists who hate everyone other than ourselves. Good start Trump.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-22-16, 00:26
He did stumble over the alphabet part a bit. If asked he should say "I think of them as people, not letters...."
Makes me wish Trump had gone to the NAACP and made their heads explode...
After the first three days I was RNC'rd out. I just could not watch any more politics.
It's good to know he did well, I truly hope he wins. I will vote for him, not that it matters in NJ but I will.
Hope dies last, right?
brickboy240
07-22-16, 09:49
I was shocked that he did as well as he did with the speech. it has got to be the best oration from the man I have seen.
Honestly, I was expecting him to flub it up badly but he actually did quite well and hit on several things that most Americans are worried about.
Good speech for a non-politician. We always look at Trump thru the prism of polished, political hacks who say the right thing and pander to their regular constituents which can be counted on election day. I see him drawing a lot of Independents, and a lot of blue-collar former Reagan Democrats, just because we haven't seen this kind of candidate in my lifetime, and maybe going all the way back to the days of Andrew Jackson.
I didn't see it, but I will see it or read the transcript. His numbers will bump, then level off. The shrew will have her moment in the sun at her convention, her numbers will bump and level off, then it'll be a damn dog fight.
If the DEms were smart, they would goad him into going off script. His core message didn't change, it was the wording. From 'I won't let muslims in' to 'we will not accept people from countries that have been over run by terror organisations and we can't properly vet people'.
I don't know if going off script would hurt him. For a whole year during the campaign he's been mostly off script and that's how he got here. We kept watching and thinking "oh oh, he's stepped in it now, let's see if he can get out of this one", but he kept on going bouncing off to something else. He needs to be let loose on the hildabeast. The GOP in previous elections were soft, soft on the community agitator from Chicago, and see where that got them. McCain and Romney started to win a debate or two but they backed off and wouldn't continue the attack. That got us eight years of the bumbling, incompetent apologist in chief.
KalashniKEV
07-22-16, 10:24
Trump will win. There are a ton of democrats who hate the Clintons.
Yes, but ALL of them will still vote for her out of party solidarity.
The GOP is fractured.
They lost a bunch of limited-gov moderates, women, and gays with the Pence nomination who are now looking at Gary Johnson... Plus they're still dealing with idiot Drumpfers and Jebbers.
Trump needs to work back up to what he had last week. Hillary will keep stacking new votes... plus on election day a million Americans who aren't clicking on web polls or participating in rhetoric will show up just to vote for more free shit.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-22-16, 10:26
Annnnndddd, it's over.
Just watched Trump in his thank you to the volunteers speech. 80% good Trump, and 20% of the time spent bashing Cruz. Anytime in the 2000s, in a thank you speech, you bring up the assassination of Kennedy and the conspiracy around it and sexy pictures of your wife - you are soooooo off message. I understand a sideswipe at Ted. He started that way and didn't even mention his name, then he hugs that tarred football and can't figure out how to get rid of it. Stop talking about F-ing Cruz and focus on Hillary. Way to make a thank you speech about yourself and your vanquished foe.
Trump off message doesn't hurt him so far? He has been against other Republicans and the press frenemy-ed him because he was good copy and ratings. Now the long knives come out and it's big boy rules.
I agree Trump being Trump when he is focused and on message is really powerful. Trump isn't running against Hillary, he is running against himself 20% of the time.
Ivanka needs to take him back stage and bitch slap him and tell him if he does that again, she'll put him in a crappy old folks home.
BoringGuy45
07-22-16, 10:45
Seriously stupid move. Pride is the worst sin of all, as it's what leads to all other sins. Not even 24 hours off a great speech and he already shoots himself in the foot. Cruz was being considered the bad guy for his non-endorsement! Trump could have come across as much cooler if he had simply ignored it; not brought it up. Who cares?? Instead, he's got to lash out like a high school girl.
I thought it was a good speech. The first words out of the NBC crew were how "DARK" it was. So the media code word is "dark". Take a shot every time you hear it.
The GOP is fractured.
The NBC host, forgot here name, claimed that the GOP died last night... when asked to restate by I think it was Chuck Todd, she did so... Yes, the GOP died tonight. She was supposedly a GOPer from decades back.
I hope the Trump organization is smart enough to get a real Latino/Mexican/Cuban to speak in opposition to Tim Kaine as he loves to run around speaking Spanish.
KalashniKEV
07-22-16, 11:13
The NBC host, forgot here name, claimed that the GOP died last night... when asked to restate by I think it was Chuck Todd, she did so... Yes, the GOP died tonight. She was supposedly a GOPer from decades back.
She is not incorrect.
They held a wake last night at the Dubliner.
http://cdn.images.rollcall.com/image/236cbdabf6ca9fc064f8372837707da7/author/2016/07/21203614/GOP_Wake_0009.jpg
http://www.rollcall.com/news/hoh/meanwhile-d-c-irish-wake-gop
The Republican Party really is dead. It's the Trump Party now.
If he wins, it will embolden 1000 mini-Trumps and the entire party will look exactly like him overnight. If he loses the warring factions will destroy each other.
Either way it's death for these Weinstein-types. I hope the dude has some backup skills.
I thought it was a good speech. The first words out of the NBC crew were how "DARK" it was. So the media code word is "dark". Take a shot every time you hear it.
The NBC host, forgot here name, claimed that the GOP died last night... when asked to restate by I think it was Chuck Todd, she did so... Yes, the GOP died tonight. She was supposedly a GOPer from decades back.
I hope the Trump organization is smart enough to get a real Latino/Mexican/Cuban to speak in opposition to Tim Kaine as he loves to run around speaking Spanish.
I want to ask these people what the GOP is supposed to look like? I mean, Goldwater's GOP was different than Eisenhower's...Reagan's was different from Goldwater's...Bush (junior) was different than Reagan's....neocon, paleocon, centrist, whatever, it all changes....
The fact that the leftist media and politicians are beside themselves following this speech and convention is a good sign. They are calling it "dark", "fear-mongering" and the usual cliches. To me this means it cut through the narrative and spin, and they have to resort to the typical attacks. If it was a bomb of a speech and a convention, they wouldn't be making much of it.
The fact that the leftist media and politicians are beside themselves following this speech and convention is a good sign. They are calling it "dark", "fear-mongering" and the usual cliches. To me this means it cut through the narrative and spin, and they have to resort to the typical attacks. If it was a bomb of a speech and a convention, they wouldn't be making much of it.
The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy. The opposite of fear is hate. You are right; if they weren't afraid they wouldn't be so vitriolic.
The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy. The opposite of fear is hate. You are right; if they weren't afraid they wouldn't be so vitriolic.
It is also interesting because it is such a classic example of the left's psychological projection....every thing is based on darkness and fear.
I'm not sad the gop is dead. They sold us and U.S. out.
No back bone. Try to please the dems and pet their balls every step of the way. ACA, which is anything but. Fact that they even put forward gun control bills, regardless of how "common sense" they may be. Want to make every debate about gays, abortion, and religion. And most of all, no real leadership. They let **** wads like boner run things.
Then a guy like trump shows up. Biggest quality he has is that he isn't ginormous pussy, and the gop can't understand why...... He has balls. And doesn't really care what people think. And the gop status quo doesn't, have any balls that is.
Having potus who doesn't suck off arabs, an aploligist that dreams of marxism, or a husband and wife that seem to have the possibility of a new indictment every week would be a nice change.
eightmillimeter
07-22-16, 12:49
I'm not sad the gop is dead. They sold us and U.S. out.
No back bone. Try to please the dems and pet their balls every step of the way. ACA, which is anything but. Fact that they even put forward gun control bills, regardless of how "common sense" they may be. Want to make every debate about gays, abortion, and religion. And most of all, no real leadership. They let **** wads like boner run things.
Then a guy like trump shows up. Biggest quality he has is that he isn't ginormous pussy, and the gop can't understand why...... He has balls. And doesn't really care what people think. And the gop status quo doesn't, have any balls that is.
Having potus who doesn't suck off arabs, an aploligist that dreams of marxism, or a husband and wife that seem to have the possibility of a new indictment every week would be a nice change.
This exactly. Four years of a Trump Presidency will fix most that was wrong with the GOP to start with. If he loses, they will never have a position to win anything... The democrat party will become openly socialist and the GOP will be what the democrats are now.
Was it just me or was the soundtrack from Air Force One at the intro completely badass?
Annnnndddd, it's over.
Just watched Trump in his thank you to the volunteers speech. 80% good Trump, and 20% of the time spent bashing Cruz. Anytime in the 2000s, in a thank you speech, you bring up the assassination of Kennedy and the conspiracy around it and sexy pictures of your wife - you are soooooo off message. I understand a sideswipe at Ted. He started that way and didn't even mention his name, then he hugs that tarred football and can't figure out how to get rid of it. Stop talking about F-ing Cruz and focus on Hillary. Way to make a thank you speech about yourself and your vanquished foe.
Trump off message doesn't hurt him so far? He has been against other Republicans and the press frenemy-ed him because he was good copy and ratings. Now the long knives come out and it's big boy rules.
I agree Trump being Trump when he is focused and on message is really powerful. Trump isn't running against Hillary, he is running against himself 20% of the time.
Ivanka needs to take him back stage and bitch slap him and tell him if he does that again, she'll put him in a crappy old folks home.
I just don't get it. How does a guy with such a low emotional equivalent garner 13 million votes? Even I thought that Cruz made a dumb move at the Convention and played right into Trump's hands. Now, part of me thinks that Cruz was the master of stratagems by knowing that Trump would come unhinged.
He was able to hold it in long enough to get through the event, but you know he was likely up all night foaming at the mouth to take to Twitter. Manafort must have hidden his phone.
Good speech for a non-politician.
Excuse me for responding to this 24 hours later.
I don't give Trump that pass. He should be well-polished, he has been a reality TV host (so I'm told)made presentations so as to advance his business interests, and has been a 'celebrity' of sorts for 20+ years. He should know how to speak.
I believe this observation, by FromMyColdDeadHand, has been proven true by Trump's after convention speech:
I think Trump will take this win and just go back to his low-preparation/off-the-cuff style. You could see him go off script at times in the speech. He will screw it up. He's like a drunk that sees how going sober is better, but thinks that they can dip back into the liquor and keep things in control. Trump's self-defeating addiction is his pride. He is not going to be controlled.
If the DEms were smart, they would goad him into going off script. His core message didn't change, it was the wording. From 'I won't let muslims in' to 'we will not accept people from countries that have been over run by terror organisations and we can't properly vet people'.
He's your drunk uncle that it becomes not if, but when will he screw up the family function.
I'm in the Red State of Kansas, I do not believe that my vote for Trump will help him win, I won't vote for Clinton, I am probably going to vote for Johnson as I don't see it harming the Nation.
I just don't get it. How does a guy with such a low emotional equivalent garner 13 million votes? Even I thought that Cruz made a dumb move at the Convention and played right into Trump's hands. Now, part of me thinks that Cruz was the master of stratagems by knowing that Trump would come unhinged.
You're right, yo don't get it. Trumo has a very keen sense of other people's emotions or emotional quotient as it's called. That is why he has pierced through the BS narratives and gone straight for what so many people think and feel.
You're right, yo don't get it. Trumo has a very keen sense of other people's emotions or emotional quotient as it's called. That is why he has pierced through the BS narratives and gone straight for what so many people think and feel.
Well, I'd say it's more so that he can beat a populist drum and people will come. The masses are easily swayed like that. But, whatever, as long as Hillary doesn't win and trump makes good on atleast something that he touts as doable than I'll consider it a win. My expectations are still just above the floor though.
You're right, yo don't get it. Trumo has a very keen sense of other people's emotions or emotional quotient as it's called. That is why he has pierced through the BS narratives and gone straight for what so many people think and feel.
That must be why he is so popular with with women, blacks, Hispanics, and all the other demographics aside from white males who live in their parent's basement. It must also explain why he is losing to the most unpopular cun+ in American. Yep, the man has the capacity to capture what so many think and feel.
GTFOOH.
That must be why he is so popular with with women, blacks, Hispanics, and all the other demographics aside from white males who live in their parent's basement. It must also explain why he is losing to the most unpopular cun+ in American. Yep, the man has the capacity to capture what so many think and feel.
GTFOOH.
For real???
You think that the only people he attracts are basement dwellers?? You've been reading too much leftstream media.
Note that the deck is stacked against non-Democrats (i.e. Republicans) - media, celebretards, bribes in the form of handouts, etc. Even with that, Trump is still doing pretty damn good - better than the hard-cucking clown posse of Romney, McCain, Cruz, Bush, Rubio, etc.
Do you expect your slimey hombre Ted Cruz do do better with blacks, women, and non-whites, given the Leftism that permeates all around us? Hells no.
And, may I ask, what is wrong with appealing to white males? Does one have to use the Constitution toilet paper to wipe the asses of special interest groups, handout addicts, and wards of the state?
Yeah, no, it's hard working producing family men (white and some non white) who support Trump and want to take their damn country back.
Enough mass importation of the 3rd world. Time to keep America for Americans, rather than outsource it to people whose culture of corruption is perfectly in alignment with the Democratic Party.
PatrioticDisorder
07-23-16, 22:19
For real???
You think that the only people he attracts are basement dwellers?? You've been reading too much leftstream media.
Note that the deck is stacked against non-Democrats (i.e. Republicans) - media, celebretards, bribes in the form of handouts, etc. Even with that, Trump is still doing pretty damn good - better than the hard-cucking clown posse of Romney, McCain, Cruz, Bush, Rubio, etc.
Do you expect your slimey hombre Ted Cruz do do better with blacks, women, and non-whites, given the Leftism that permeates all around us? Hells no.
And, may I ask, what is wrong with appealing to white males? Does one have to use the Constitution toilet paper to wipe the asses of special interest groups, handout addicts, and wards of the state?
Yeah, no, it's hard working producing family men (white and some non white) who support Trump and want to take their damn country back.
Enough mass importation of the 3rd world. Time to keep America for Americans, rather than outsource it to people whose culture of corruption is perfectly in alignment with the Democratic Party.
At this point I'm beginning to believe Trump banged Sensei's girl or something, his hatred for Trump is irrational, particularly in the face of Trump vs. Clinton. Someone is going to need to bust out a doll and ask Sensei where on the doll Trump hurt him. Most people I associate with are professionals and many are Trump supporters, certainly not basement dwellers.
That must be why he is so popular with with women, blacks, Hispanics, and all the other demographics *aside from white males who live in their parent's basement.*
Snip
GTFOOH.
Ya know... I believe you just tagged a bunch of pragmatic folks who for sure do not live in their basement. And may just be smarter and more wealthy/productive than you, but for various reasons have a different viewpoint.
You've crossed from being an interesting counterpoint to a predictable name caller not that different from the left.
Next I expect you'll be ranting it's only racists and misogynists who support the Republican nominee.
Averageman
07-24-16, 07:55
There was a lot of preparation and some thought put in to the last four hours or so of the Republican convention.
You may hate Trump down to the bone, but what he did that night by opening the door to a lot of folks (Homosexuals and Single Mom's/Women in particular) that are usually thought of as Democrats and it may have changed some of the dynamics.
If he has done anything he has taken the wheel away from the establishment and made the GOP more inclusive to those who may have been excluded do to the actions and volume of the extreme religious right.
What I took away from that speech is that we all deserve the same basic human rights.
We all want to throttle back on the overbearing, overreaching powers of the federal government.
We want a Nation of Laws.
We need to closely look at who we let in to this country.
I'm sorry, IDGAF if you like to dress up like a Woman, if you are attracted to the same sex, if your skin tone fits anywhere in the range of albino to ebony, you can have Conservative values and love America. Work hard pay your taxes and stay off of the dole and enjoy the same protections and chances to achieve as everyone else.
Ya know... I believe you just tagged a bunch of pragmatic folks who for sure do not live in their basement. And may just be smarter and more wealthy/productive than you, but for various reasons have a different viewpoint.
You've crossed from being an interesting counterpoint to a predictable name caller not that different from the left.
Next I expect you'll be ranting it's only racists and misogynists who support the Republican nominee.
Let me get this staight, Trump and his supporters can refer to their competition and detractors as losers, liars, turds and slim balls. But, heaven forbid I make a joke about the fact that some 50% of the people who vote for Trump in November will be holding their collective noses and voting for the lesser of two evils; and that the 20% of hardcore supporters make up the juvenile name calling contingent of most discussions.
Before you go asking me where I get that 50% number, take a look at his favorability in the polls and the number of people in this forum who say they are holding their noses.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-24-16, 09:08
Since I read 'Art of the Deal', my parents let me live on the first floor...
Trump is far from a perfect candidate, but that paradoxically is why he is appealing- for now. Just like Rumsfeld was a rockstar at the start, his schtick, like Trump's, will get old and stale and then that bravado gets tiresome. People like Trump for what he is not, but when pressed for anything besides top line plans, the answer is- huge, fast, amazing. Great for middle linebackers.
A wall is not a bad idea, it is kind of like UBCs- it won't actually solve the problem but it sounds good. What exactly is he going to do on student debt? I know he is really just trying to flank Hillary with the Berners, but he better have some ideas- other than tax the crap out me or nationalise their debt.
But the reality is that Trump can't stay on message, even his own message, and that's while he'll lose in November. He could win. It would be huge and amazing, but like Obama, he is more interested in the idea of being president than actually leading.
With the WIKI leaks of the DNC, Trump could seriously make inroads with disaffected DNC voters, but he won't stay on message. He'll probably focus on Little Debbie (for a year I thought she was deaf with that nasally accent) and not Hillary and squander the advantage.
Averageman
07-24-16, 09:09
Left with the choice I held my nose and voted for Romney, and before that McCain, and Bush and......
Do you see where this is going?
Perhaps that same % were the folks who brought us Romney, McCain and Bush?
I really wanted this election to go another way, but now that it is here, I feel a lot better about Trump being in that spot than Kasich.
The Wall is just the tip of the iceberg. What will/should go along with it is comprehensively tighter and more rational immigration controls, prosecuting law breakers, getting rid of shite like "sanctuary cities" not importing millions of people who want to take over the United States, and ending handouts to illegals.
What's to "hold your nose" at? Want a country? Trump is the only choice - Democrat or Republican. The cucks have allowed Progressivism to bend us over and take it for decades and will allow it even more in the future.
Winning an election is already a very uphill battle (media bias, education system entertainment etc.). Add in millions more low information ethnic voting block voting citizens who are addicted to gibs (gibs me dat handouts) and who want to see the USA turned into their dysfunctional homeland, and say hello to the end of the USA overseen by the Democratic Party.
You'll have southern states go join Mexico, Sharia being declared in Muslim infested areas, all for diversity's sake (and because said interest groups promised to vote Democrat and pay their tribute to the Clinton Foundation).
Hand in your guns, bye bye to freedom of speech (it's offensive, after all).
But hey, as long as you vote your "conscience" for some slimey cuck who puts the supposed "free market" economy ahead of preserving the nation, culture heritage, freedoms and liberties of America.
Not sure how subsidizing and giving amnesty to millions of lawbreakers and importing millions of Muslims is a free market thing but I guess I'm not a trained economist, just a basement dwelling illiterate white cisheterosexual male relic from the Stone Age.
Let me get this staight, Trump and his supporters can refer to their competition and detractors as losers, liars, turds and slim balls. But, heaven forbid I make a joke about the fact that some 50% of the people who vote for Trump in November will be holding their collective noses and voting for the lesser of two evils; and that the 20% of hardcore supporters make up the juvenile name calling contingent of most discussions.
You're entitled to think think people who vote for Trump are stupid just like the rest of us are entitled to our opinion.
And when you run for president you can decide whether or not you want to call people losers or not.
For some time I've usually appreciated the Insight you brought to discussions. but not lately, the tone and quality of posts has changed.
And this is a pretty good example. Likewise, I know I'm not the only one who has noticed this.
If you want to discuss merits or issues, then fine but attacking people who don't agree with you or even just name-calling is beneath you and beneath m4c.
I feel the same way when people drop to name-calling for supporters of the left, although I'm sure there are basement dwellers in both crowds and we could speculate on whether there are more in the left or the right.
Most of the people I know who support Trump would probably have not picked him as their guy, but absolutely have aligned behind the majority if not all of his platform.
And even some of the ones who say they can't vote for him agree 100% with the majority of his core points.
I was not a fan of McCain or Romney, and probably would have rather had Trump running in their places based on their performance previously and his performance today. So I'm not so sure his unpopularity numbers are accurate, but we'll never know until November
Until then, I'll refrain from name-calling, and focus on the issues and odds , which is what these threads are supposed to be about
RobertTheTexan
07-24-16, 10:59
Excuse me for responding to this 24 hours later.
I don't give Trump that pass. He should be well-polished, he has been a reality TV host (so I'm told)made presentations so as to advance his business interests, and has been a 'celebrity' of sorts for 20+ years. He should know how to speak.
I believe this observation, by FromMyColdDeadHand, has been proven true by Trump's after convention speech:
I think Trump will take this win and just go back to his low-preparation/off-the-cuff style. You could see him go off script at times in the speech. He will screw it up. He's like a drunk that sees how going sober is better, but thinks that they can dip back into the liquor and keep things in control. Trump's self-defeating addiction is his pride. He is not going to be controlled.
If the DEms were smart, they would goad him into going off script. His core message didn't change, it was the wording. From 'I won't let muslims in' to 'we will not accept people from countries that have been over run by terror organisations and we can't properly vet people'.
He's your drunk uncle that it becomes not if, but when will he screw up the family function.
I'm in the Red State of Kansas, I do not believe that my vote for Trump will help him win, I won't vote for Clinton, I am probably going to vote for Johnson as I don't see it harming the Nation.
I guess I'm chiming in even later. You make many good points and I agree with just about everything you said. (Not saying that it matters that I do...just saying that I do.) While I'm not struggling with who to vote for now, there was a time when I had to work through some internal questions. I don't necessarily agree with Donald Trump on all his points, and it's not just his political posturing, there are some character issues, personality issues - things inherent to the man and his heart that don't jibe with me. Point blank don't align with the kind of man I'd like to see as our CINC. But clearly to me HRC is the worst choice possible. So do I cast my vote for someone (a write in) that I know won't matter at all to maybe ease my personal convictions or do I vote for DT because if enough people do as I do then by our lack of a relevant vote - it will count but not in the way we want it to. I think many people - I know in my circle at least, we aren't voting for DT because we favor him so strongly but because we realize how disastrous HRC with the title of POTUS will be. While the end result is more or less the same, my conscience demands that whatever vote I cast, whatever ballot box I check it has to be against Hillary and so I believe any vote for DT is a vote against Hillary and her tyranny. I don't want to be misunderstood here, I'm not saying that I have to sell my soul to vote for Trump, not that at all, but there are some considerable viewpoints we differ on and more as I mentioned earlier, but nonetheless my vote will be for him because any vote for Donald Trump is a vote against Hillary Clinton and sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles.
You're entitled to think think people who vote for Trump are stupid just like the rest of us are entitled to our opinion.
And when you run for president you can decide whether or not you want to call people losers or not.
For some time I've usually appreciated the Insight you brought to discussions. but not lately, the tone and quality of posts has changed.
And this is a pretty good example. Likewise, I know I'm not the only one who has noticed this.
If you want to discuss merits or issues, then fine but attacking people who don't agree with you or even just name-calling is beneath you and beneath m4c.
I feel the same way when people drop to name-calling for supporters of the left, although I'm sure there are basement dwellers in both crowds and we could speculate on whether there are more in the left or the right.
Most of the people I know who support Trump would probably have not picked him as their guy, but absolutely have aligned behind the majority if not all of his platform.
And even some of the ones who say they can't vote for him agree 100% with the majority of his core points.
I was not a fan of McCain or Romney, and probably would have rather had Trump running in their places based on their performance previously and his performance today. So I'm not so sure his unpopularity numbers are accurate, but we'll never know until November
Until then, I'll refrain from name-calling, and focus on the issues and odds , which is what these threads are supposed to be about
You keep missing the point. I don't think that everyone who votes for Trump is a loser. In fact, there are a number of highly intelligent, successful people who will vote for him because he is not Hillary, but do not otherwise SUPPORT him. However, I do think that a number (but not all) of his ardent supporters are losers. The signs and symptoms are people who refer to other conservative candidate (and their supporters) as liars, turds, etc. A perfect example is Rep. Peter King of NY. This vile loser is a Republican and ardent Trump supporter who sports a solid F for a Liberty Score on Conservative Review. He referred to Cruz as an asshole on national TV. I have no use for him or his constituents
Finally, if you notice a change in my tone, it's because I'm no longer an ally. I, like many conservatives, have pealed away from the GOP and are part of the opposition to both parties. We view Trump and his ardent supporters in the same light as Hillary and Bernie supporters.
RobertTheTexan
07-24-16, 12:32
Left with the choice I held my nose and voted for Romney, and before that McCain, and Bush and......
Do you see where this is going?
Perhaps that same % were the folks who brought us Romney, McCain and Bush?
I really wanted this election to go another way, but now that it is here, I feel a lot better about Trump being in that spot than Kasich.
Agreed, [emoji1303] I too would have preferred a different candidate. But when I saw how quickly they were basically 'dismissed', I knew that this election would not create an optimal situation. But when has it ever? It is what it is and we need to do what we, freedom loving Patriots need to do.
I, like many conservatives, have pealed away from the GOP and are part of the opposition to both parties. We view Trump and his ardent supporters in the same light as Hillary and Bernie supporters.
I'll second that. The Republican party has allowed things to devolve to a point where I'm essentially forced to cast a vote for a repulsive nominee in the hopes that it prevents a win by a vile nominee. Things have certainly passed the point of being bizarre and taken a turn for the surreal.
I do think that a number (but not all) of his ardent supporters are losers. The signs and symptoms are people who refer to other conservative candidate (and their supporters) as liars, turds, etc. A perfect example is Rep. Peter King of NY.
I guess that's the difference... I find name calling juvenile whether Trump, King, or yourself does it.
It's not really accurate, not adding to the discourse, and we can/should do better.
Finally, if you notice a change in my tone, it's because I'm no longer an ally. I, like many conservatives, have pealed away from the GOP and are part of the opposition to both parties. We view Trump and his ardent supporters in the same light as Hillary and Bernie supporters.
Again, that's where we differ... The GOP lost me with McCain & Romney.
And Trump, though imperfect is a huge move back in the direction. I'd want it to go. Of his 5 main positions I'm at 85-90% alignment, even if skeptical how much he can move the needle. It that's way better than Romney, McCain, W, and Doyle were.
So if you peeled away from the GOP now that it finally got behind Trump, were you for it when they were fighting him tooth and nail??? Do you think they would have really supported Cruz?
The very idea Romney would attack the presumptive nominee harder than he fought obama is very telling to me.
Trump shook the GOP to its core. They were scared. And he is a symptom, not a root cause. Im not sure they (GOP) understand that. I see him as a change agent. If he loses its because pretty much no repub could have won. Do we really think Jeb or Christie or Ohio guy would win more votes against HRC because they are only half as bad in immigration?
But the GOP hopefully will see it's got to take a stand or fade away.
If he gets in and only does 1% of what he promised he'll still be miles ahead of the damage HRC would do. Even slick Willy would be better than his wife.
Most of the folks I know who will still vote repub are not pained, I'll hold my nose, last resort mindset. It's more: "did not think he'd last. Clearly something has changed that we did not anticipate. You go, yellow hair, go!" With a chuckle and a shake of the head. ("Who'd a thunk it!"). And a begrudging admission that he may not be as stupid as the press and his enemies!does make him out to be.
He's either made more mistakes than I'd expect but gotten lucky in how it worked out. OR he is working a guerrilla marketing campaign that is too subtle for the press, the left, and even most of us to figure out.
He's a blowhard. But I don't think he's stupid, nor are his advisors.
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
I'll second that. The Republican party has allowed things to devolve to a point where I'm essentially forced to cast a vote for a repulsive nominee in the hopes that it prevents a win by a vile nominee. Things have certainly passed the point of being bizarre and taken a turn for the surreal.
So did this occur with DJT? Or were you happy with Romney and McCain?
I knew we lost when Romney did not challenge obama on several points in the debate. Gave him a complete pass, could have nailed him.
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
Coal Dragger
07-24-16, 13:50
I understand that a lot of traditional conservatives are very upset by the nomination of Donald Trump, and his antics in the primary against traditional conservative candidates.
Well sorry guys, but politics is a dirty game by nature and Trump wanted to win. Frankly it was kind of refreshing to see him cut off all his opponents at the knees and then kick them in the balls. That is what we need to beat the Democrats and Hillary Clinton. Franky the direction the Republican party was heading prior to Trump was one of guaranteed loss in national elections. We'll see if Trump can reverse that trend, at least his approach is very different.
For myself I will state that Trump is by no means perfect, but neither were any of the other candidates in the GOP primary. Strangely my favorite candidate was Jim Webb on the Democratic side but he dropped out very early when he realized the Democratic Party he remembered moved away from sanity about 25 years ago.
I don't know what demographic I fall into for statisticians to obsess over, likely one so small it won't matter. I am college educated, yet choose to work as locomotive engineer because I found out I hate office jobs. I'm a white male in his mid 30's. I don't live in my parent's basement. I belong to a labor union (Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers). I am a gun owner, NRA member, and 2nd Amendment supporter. I don't give a rat's ass about abortion, or religious issues. I could care less about gays getting married, or who uses what bathroom. I think most drugs should be legalized even tough I have zero interest in using any of them. The Republican Party's obsession with social issues being driven by evangelical nut jobs has hurt the party in my estimation by alienating a lot of voters. At least they aren't a bunch of gun grabbing nanny state socialist assholes that want to give handouts to non working dead beats, and who hate white people.
All these "traditional conservatives" that I keep hearing about are the same ones that played into the Overton window framed by Progressives, and are the same ones who would keep cucking like it's going out of style with their delusions of 3rd Worlders being "natural conservatives" and whatnot. Yeah, those Mexicans and Muslims are totally for conservatism - conserving Mexican and Muslim culture and values that is, American culture and values not so much.
Trump is the only one who is breaking out of the losing proposition that is mass importation of Democrat voters.
I guess that's the difference... I find name calling juvenile whether Trump, King, or yourself does it.
It's not really accurate, not adding to the discourse, and we can/should do better.
Again, that's where we differ... The GOP lost me with McCain & Romney.
And Trump, though imperfect is a huge move back in the direction. I'd want it to go. Of his 5 main positions I'm at 85-90% alignment, even if skeptical how much he can move the needle. It that's way better than Romney, McCain, W, and Doyle were.
A move in the right direction? Here again is Trump's record:
1) Supported the TARP bailout
2) Supported the Stimulus
3) Supported the auto bailout
4) Supported a single payer (i.e. The federal government) health system as recently as 2004; has called for government program to replace Obamacare for the poor in 2015
5) Supported the 1994 AWB and called for waiting periods as recently as 2000
6) Called for a 14% government raid of trust and personal accounts more than $10M to erase the debt
7) Donated to democrat campaigns as recently as 2012 including vile creatures like Chuck Schumer
8) Did the customary pro choice to prolife flip-flop
9) Is on the record opposing cuts or reforms to Medicare and Social Security in 2016
10) Supports NSA metadata collection
11) Supported the Supreme Court’s 2005 decision in Kelo v. City of New London, giving public authorities the right to seize private land for economic development by private investors
13) Said that Hillary was a good choice for Sec of State
14) Thought in 2013 that Bill de Blasio would make a good mayor, maybe even a great mayor
With the possible exception of immigration, Trump's record is rather hard to distinguish from McCain or Romney...or Obama. I say possible exception because he really has no record on immigration aside from the whole Polish worker fiasco in the 80's, and many of his positions have "evolved" (such as work visas). The biggest difference that I can find with Trump vs McCain and Trump vs. Romney is that McCain and Romney seemed to conduct themselves with at least baseline degree of class leading up to 2008 and 2012 (McCain's conduct after the election has been horrible). Neither McCain or Romney called each other liars, planted stories in the Enquirer, or suggested that their wives were ugly. Hell, McCain even served honorably in Vietnam. Trump didn't make that one - too busy nursing a pesky case of heel spurs.
So, you think that a Northern liberal with record of positions similar to Elizabeth Warren and penchant for calling his fellow Republicans names such as referring to Rand Paul as a spoiled brat without a brain is a step in the "right direction." That's cool. No problem Homie.
I understand that a lot of traditional conservatives are very upset by the nomination of Donald Trump, and his antics in the primary against traditional conservative candidates.
Well sorry guys, but politics is a dirty game by nature and Trump wanted to win. Frankly it was kind of refreshing to see him cut off all his opponents at the knees and then kick them in the balls. That is what we need to beat the Democrats and Hillary Clinton. Franky the direction the Republican party was heading prior to Trump was one of guaranteed loss in national elections. We'll see if Trump can reverse that trend, at least his approach is very different.
For myself I will state that Trump is by no means perfect, but neither were any of the other candidates in the GOP primary. Strangely my favorite candidate was Jim Webb on the Democratic side but he dropped out very early when he realized the Democratic Party he remembered moved away from sanity about 25 years ago.
I don't know what demographic I fall into for statisticians to obsess over, likely one so small it won't matter. I am college educated, yet choose to work as locomotive engineer because I found out I hate office jobs. I'm a white male in his mid 30's. I don't live in my parent's basement. I belong to a labor union (Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers). I am a gun owner, NRA member, and 2nd Amendment supporter. I don't give a rat's ass about abortion, or religious issues. I could care less about gays getting married, or who uses what bathroom. I think most drugs should be legalized even tough I have zero interest in using any of them. The Republican Party's obsession with social issues being driven by evangelical nut jobs has hurt the party in my estimation by alienating a lot of voters. At least they aren't a bunch of gun grabbing nanny state socialist assholes that want to give handouts to non working dead beats, and who hate white people.
You likely align more with the Libertarian Party. #FeelTheJohnson
http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johnson.htm
https://www.johnsonweld.com
However, you should probably ignore that and vote for the Republicans so that your vote is not wasted. That's what everybody who is somebody is doing...you know...conforming to the party so that the other statist doesn't win. After all, that line of thinking is working so well for our country.
Coal Dragger
07-24-16, 16:34
Unfortunately in a two party system, that is what we are stuck with.
Unfortunately in a two party system, that is what we are stuck with.
Then don't complain about the so called evangelical nut jobs that you think are hurting the party. You have chosen to make your bed with who you think will win, not who you think will stand with you. Sleep tight in the warm comfort that you are not alone as you lose.
So did this occur with DJT? Or were you happy with Romney and McCain?
I knew we lost when Romney did not challenge obama on several points in the debate. Gave him a complete pass, could have nailed him.
I've always been an unaffiliated voter, but I lean conservative on most issues and so had always found myself more or less lined up with Republicans. The Republican party started to lose me with the Patriot Act and the formation of Homeland Security. (Anything that has "patriot" capitalized and/or the word "homeland" in it... :help:) Since then, it was a slow circling of the drain as they did more and more to erode liberty and concede to the increasingly left-listing Democrats at seemingly every turn. It became evident that it's "party before principles", and they lost me entirely. Trump should have been a non-starter for the Republican party.
Coal Dragger
07-24-16, 19:23
Then don't complain about the so called evangelical nut jobs that you think are hurting the party. You have chosen to make your bed with who you think will win, not who you think will stand with you. Sleep tight in the warm comfort that you are not alone as you lose.
Of course Trump is going to lose. None of the Republican candidates ever had a chance. Demographics have changed enough to prevent the possibility of a Republican, as we think of the party, winning a Presidential election. Republicans can either recognize this reality and change their party platform to be more inclusive and address issues at the national level that a majority of voters care about, or they can keep losing.
There is no "warm comfort" in any of that reality. There are no candidates running for office anywhere that will stand for anything other than themselves, all they care about in either major party is their own power and influence, and what they can extract from us while they wield power. All the individuals who would be worth a shit in elected office have high enough personal conduct standards they would never lower themselves to run, and would never get elected if they did.
So we're stuck with shit heels in office, doesn't matter if there is an "R" next to their name or a "D". They just have different priorities on what part of the US Constitution they want to wipe their asses with. The best we can do is try to elect the candidate that will not wipe his ass with our most valued parts of the Constitution.
... ... None of the Republican candidates ever had a chance. Demographics have changed enough to prevent the possibility of a Republican, as we think of the party, winning a Presidential election. Republicans can either recognize this reality and change their party platform to be more inclusive and address issues at the national level that a majority of voters care about, or they can keep losing. ... ...
I don't agree with everything you said but I do agree with that part.
Of course Trump is going to lose. None of the Republican candidates ever had a chance. Demographics have changed enough to prevent the possibility of a Republican, as we think of the party, winning a Presidential election. Republicans can either recognize this reality and change their party platform to be more inclusive and address issues at the national level that a majority of voters care about, or they can keep losing.
There is no "warm comfort" in any of that reality. There are no candidates running for office anywhere that will stand for anything other than themselves, all they care about in either major party is their own power and influence, and what they can extract from us while they wield power. All the individuals who would be worth a shit in elected office have high enough personal conduct standards they would never lower themselves to run, and would never get elected if they did.
So we're stuck with shit heels in office, doesn't matter if there is an "R" next to their name or a "D". They just have different priorities on what part of the US Constitution they want to wipe their asses with. The best we can do is try to elect the candidate that will not wipe his ass with our most valued parts of the Constitution.
I think that will be true if trends continue for even a few years, and it may very well be true at this moment. This is the last chance to get a non-Democrat into office, which is why it's imperative that Trump not only wins but takes drastic steps to reverse a demographic tsunami.
PatrioticDisorder
07-24-16, 21:29
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-news/watch/kaine-hillary-and-i-will-not-rest-until-gun-reform-achieved-731016259729
Enough of the bullshit, say what you want about what Trump said about guns when he was rubbing elbows with leftist ****s in NY to help push through his real estate deals without becoming NYC's version of Ted Cruz, a pariah. Trump's 2a platform he's running on is solidly gun rights with a plan to expand gun rights (national reciprocity). If Killary and the pedophile looking mother****er (Kaine) win, they will relentlessly go after 2a rights and that alone should make everyone on this forum want to vote Trump.
PatrioticDisorder
07-24-16, 21:31
I think that will be true if trends continue for even a few years, and it may very well be true at this moment. This is the last chance to get a non-Democrat into office, which is why it's imperative that Trump not only wins but takes drastic steps to reverse a demographic tsunami.
Actually the should be the number one issue for anyone with a brain, but considering we're on a scary black rifle forum, gun rights should be at the top of the list as well.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-24-16, 22:51
If Killary and the pedophile looking mother****er (Kaine) win, they will relentlessly go after 2a rights and that alone should make everyone on this forum want to vote Trump.
That's not true about Kaine, he looks more like the movies that owns slaves.
Trump won't do two terms. This job will be too confining for him. Opportunity to pivot to someone else.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-01-16, 00:29
And Trump back to being Trump with this whole Khan thing, the Putin thing, Hillary Campaign emails and nude pics of his wife.
Trump got let off easy by the MSM when he was beating up on all the other GOPers. Now see what happens when they actually let you win and now are the sacrificial lamb before the Progressive altar.
Averageman
08-01-16, 08:00
And Trump back to being Trump with this whole Khan thing, the Putin thing, Hillary Campaign emails and nude pics of his wife.
Trump got let off easy by the MSM when he was beating up on all the other GOPers. Now see what happens when they actually let you win and now are the sacrificial lamb before the Progressive altar.
The MSM is doing a pretty good job right now of taking even the least offensive thing Trump has said and finding someone who was offended.
On the other side Hillary can call one of the Mothers of those who died at Benghazi either a loon or a liar and pretty much gets a pass.
The double standard of ethics and the lack of unbiased reporting seems to be going Hillary's way 99.99% of the time.
We seem to be watching CNN go full on Clinton, while MSNBC is mildly upset about Bernie but is happy to back Clinton and Fox goes full frontal assault to become CNN. The other major networks have been carrying water for the Clintons for years so I have no doubt unless something major changes we are going to see this bias until the votes are counted and even then I fear that whomever counts them has decided already to give it to Hillary.
Though not my first choice, Trump will get my vote.
On the bright side for Trump, most Americans are far from being political/news junkies, and not only do not care about CNN, they don't watch it. And a fairly large percentage of those who do, really do not care what he says, or even more so, they like that he talks rough, and doesn't take any shit from anyone, PC or not.
Trump won't do two terms. This job will be too confining for him. Opportunity to pivot to someone else.
I have no problem with that as long as everything goes in the right direction.
Trump wasn't my first choice in this but right now I feel good about him.
USA USA USA!
RobertTheTexan
08-01-16, 10:54
I have no problem with that as long as everything goes in the right direction.
Trump wasn't my first choice in this but right now I feel good about him.
USA USA USA!
I'd probably vote for SpongeBob SquarePants before I'd vote for HRC. #baldfacedliar. Lol
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