View Full Version : There Will Be No Second American Revolution.......
I was reading this article that tb-av posted a link to in another thread. It is very interesting that EVERYONE that talks this topic the same way. It is always about the "evil government" repressing the people and the people rising up. This got me thinking. Does anyone know of another type of "theory" (I will call it that due to the lack of a better term) about how this will go down? What I mean is that everything that I have read is about the people fighting the government. If you look at history that is not always the case. Many times it is one faction against another faction and the government in the middle. A good example would be Beirut in the 1980's. Multiple factions attacking each other trying to gain leverage.
I started to think about a hypothetical situation and many different scenarios came to mind. Left goes after right in a conservative area to eliminate the voting pool and so forth.
I just find it very interesting that none of these "theories" ever go down that road and they are all the same.
Thoughts?
There Will Be No Second American Revolution: The Futility of an Armed Revolt
By John W. Whitehead
July 18, 2016
“A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty.”—James Madison
America is a ticking time bomb.
All that remains to be seen is who—or what—will set fire to the fuse.
We are poised at what seems to be the pinnacle of a manufactured breakdown, with police shooting unarmed citizens, snipers shooting police, global and domestic violence rising, and a political showdown between two presidential candidates equally matched in unpopularity.
The preparations for the Republican and Democratic national conventions taking place in Cleveland and Philadelphia—augmented by a $50 million federal security grant for each city—provide a foretaste of how the government plans to deal with any individual or group that steps out of line: they will be censored, silenced, spied on, caged, intimidated, interrogated, investigated, recorded, tracked, labeled, held at gunpoint, detained, restrained, arrested, tried and found guilty.
For instance, anticipating civil unrest and mass demonstrations in connection with the Republican Party convention, Cleveland officials set up makeshift prisons, extra courtrooms to handle protesters, and shut down a local university in order to house 1,700 riot police and their weapons. The city’s courts are preparing to process up to 1,000 people a day. Additionally, the FBI has also been conducting “interviews” with activists in advance of the conventions to discourage them from engaging in protests.
Make no mistake, the government is ready for a civil uprising.
Indeed, the government has been preparing for this moment for years.
The rest of the article is here:
https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/there_will_be_no_second_american_revolution_the_futility_of_an_armed_r
Dist. Expert 26
07-22-16, 12:01
If the liberals ever decide to attack us, well, God help them. We have all the guns remember?
If the liberals ever decide to attack us, well, God help them. We have all the guns remember?
Except those that are shooting at LEOs......
If there is hope, it lies in the Proles...
Most of that infrastructure has been supported by the firearms community for years so why the sour grapes now that an election is coming up?
Dist. Expert 26
07-22-16, 12:23
Except those that are shooting at LEOs......
True enough. I suppose I don't really count BLM as liberals, but rather a borderline terrorist group.
In any event, I have yet to see an instance where one of said individuals is engaging targets at 500+ yards so I'm not too concerned.
SomeOtherGuy
07-22-16, 12:33
I don't think politics is going to drive the next big change. Some other force - natural disaster, economic collapse, foreign attack - will precipitate things and politics will simply follow.
Empires don't last long and the US today is an empire. The USSR went from nightmare fuel to extinct in under 10 years, and the political USA could well do the same.
Right now the global economy is a game of musical chairs / hot potato and it can't last forever. I'm amazed it lasted this long. There could easily be a chain of events where (1) natural disaster (major earthquake or hurricane in an important area) causes (2) financial collapse in that area causes (3) global financial meltdown* causes (4) inability of national governments to pay their ordinary bills like employee salaries and welfare payments causes (5) national disintegration and re-alignment of political units at a more regional or local level.
*might want to look up how many bonds, both government and corporate, have negative yields, and how many major banks (especially in Europe) are holding bad debts exceeding their capital.
As a history buff--I'm nervous. I think it was John Adams that said lacking a moral people, the Constitution would no more restrain tyranny than a fishnet a whale.
Never say never.
If the liberals ever decide to attack us, well, God help them. We have all the guns remember?
We don't have all the guns. Trust me. The number of weapons circulating in unsavory populations would astound you. From antiques, Lorcins, zip guns, to stolen/straw purchased modern gear. There are plenty around.
The quoted piece... I disagree, only in that there's no need to have a malevolent mind when pure incompetence will do.
The problem, as I see it: try to write a short novel based on the intricate political underpinnings of the Bosnian War. Or how one day you would fight next to someone, the next day kidnap them, send their fingers to family members on two other sides, then have them bid on the rights to receive the corpse. Our motivations, political, regional, cultural, religious, ethnic, overlap, and are incredibly diverse due to our population and the geographic size of the nation. it confuses things when you are trying to gin up fear in interest group A against group AB, B, D, AE, and EG, each of which has multiple conflicting purposes, goals, and alliances.
It is much easier, however, to pick ANY group, say "The government? They're controlled by people who want you on your knees. They are coming for you soon." And the beauty of the trope is it works for EVERYONE, because the government is excellent at stepping on everyone's toes at some point. It's nebulous, there will always be a titular head who embodies all the ideals you despise. If not, the sheer inertia is enough.
That being said, government will hardly be a neutral faction in unrest. Local, state, federal, all act relatively independently, and with the up arming of every federal agency with a requisition form it could be even more confusing.
Crow Hunter
07-22-16, 13:07
We don't have all the guns. Trust me. The number of weapons circulating in unsavory populations would astound you. From antiques, Lorcins, zip guns, to stolen/straw purchased modern gear. There are plenty around.
The quoted piece... I disagree, only in that there's no need to have a malevolent mind when pure incompetence will do.
The problem, as I see it: try to write a short novel based on the intricate political underpinnings of the Bosnian War. Or how one day you would fight next to someone, the next day kidnap them, send their fingers to family members on two other sides, then have them bid on the rights to receive the corpse. Our motivations, political, regional, cultural, religious, ethnic, overlap, and are incredibly diverse due to our population and the geographic size of the nation. it confuses things when you are trying to gin up fear in interest group A against group AB, B, D, AE, and EG, each of which has multiple conflicting purposes, goals, and alliances.
It is much easier, however, to pick ANY group, say "The government? They're controlled by people who want you on your knees. They are coming for you soon." And the beauty of the trope is it works for EVERYONE, because the government is excellent at stepping on everyone's toes at some point. It's nebulous, there will always be a titular head who embodies all the ideals you despise. If not, the sheer inertia is enough.
That being said, government will hardly be a neutral faction in unrest. Local, state, federal, all act relatively independently, and with the up arming of every federal agency with a requisition form it could be even more confusing.
Excellent post!
The scary part is just how many fools we have in this country, who absolutely refuse to even consider the fact that this grand experiment could all be over in less time than it took the USSR to collapse. :(
Yugoslavia x 1000
Who here knows how to play an accordion?
There Will Be No Second American Revolution: The Futility of an Armed Revolt
By John W. Whitehead
July 18, 2016
“A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty.”—James Madison
America is a ticking time bomb.
All that remains to be seen is who—or what—will set fire to the fuse.
We are poised at what seems to be the pinnacle of a manufactured breakdown, with police shooting unarmed citizens, snipers shooting police, global and domestic violence rising, and a political showdown between two presidential candidates equally matched in unpopularity.
The preparations for the Republican and Democratic national conventions taking place in Cleveland and Philadelphia—augmented by a $50 million federal security grant for each city—provide a foretaste of how the government plans to deal with any individual or group that steps out of line: they will be censored, silenced, spied on, caged, intimidated, interrogated, investigated, recorded, tracked, labeled, held at gunpoint, detained, restrained, arrested, tried and found guilty.
For instance, anticipating civil unrest and mass demonstrations in connection with the Republican Party convention, Cleveland officials set up makeshift prisons, extra courtrooms to handle protesters, and shut down a local university in order to house 1,700 riot police and their weapons. The city’s courts are preparing to process up to 1,000 people a day. Additionally, the FBI has also been conducting “interviews” with activists in advance of the conventions to discourage them from engaging in protests.
Make no mistake, the government is ready for a civil uprising.
Indeed, the government has been preparing for this moment for years.
Perhaps in a relatively small (geographically speaking) area in a relatively controlled environment. Shit breaking out across the length and width of CONUS? No way in hell, even if it was intermittent they couldn't predict where to send JBT's next. Best bet for them is attempt to control population centers and leave the hinterlands to their devices. Even then the sheer numbers required to "control" a city and the sheer number of cities in the U.S. is off the charts as far as their actual capabilities are concerned.
The scary part is just how many fools we have in this country, who absolutely refuse to even consider the fact that this grand experiment could all be over in less time than it took the USSR to collapse. :(
The buildup took a while but the actual fall was a mere few days or weeks.
Dist. Expert 26
07-22-16, 13:39
We don't have all the guns. Trust me. The number of weapons circulating in unsavory populations would astound you. From antiques, Lorcins, zip guns, to stolen/straw purchased modern gear. There are plenty around.
The quoted piece... I disagree, only in that there's no need to have a malevolent mind when pure incompetence will do.
The problem, as I see it: try to write a short novel based on the intricate political underpinnings of the Bosnian War. Or how one day you would fight next to someone, the next day kidnap them, send their fingers to family members on two other sides, then have them bid on the rights to receive the corpse. Our motivations, political, regional, cultural, religious, ethnic, overlap, and are incredibly diverse due to our population and the geographic size of the nation. it confuses things when you are trying to gin up fear in interest group A against group AB, B, D, AE, and EG, each of which has multiple conflicting purposes, goals, and alliances.
It is much easier, however, to pick ANY group, say "The government? They're controlled by people who want you on your knees. They are coming for you soon." And the beauty of the trope is it works for EVERYONE, because the government is excellent at stepping on everyone's toes at some point. It's nebulous, there will always be a titular head who embodies all the ideals you despise. If not, the sheer inertia is enough.
That being said, government will hardly be a neutral faction in unrest. Local, state, federal, all act relatively independently, and with the up arming of every federal agency with a requisition form it could be even more confusing.
It's not so much the weapons themselves I'm concerned with as those behind the trigger. Training and experience go a long way.
As far as my post, I was merely responding to OP. A civil war of any sort in America won't be a two sided, cut and dry conflict. I see balkanization as a likely result once state/regional alliances begin to form. What that will look like in terms of liberty is anyone's guess, but I feel that most of us here will live long enough to find out.
Yugoslavia x 1000
Who here knows how to play an accordion?
I agree. If things every come unwound here, I very much anticipate a similar scenario.
Big difference though is that the entire country (here) doesn't have the population density like they have there.
Guy I grew up with was a ranger during that conflict. Knew a few Bosnian refugees back in the day when I was in college. Train wreck is an understatement.
Let's just hope that never happens here.
Coal Dragger
07-22-16, 13:45
Yugoslavia x 1000
Who here knows how to play an accordion?
I will start taking lessons now. Do I get a cool beret to wear for kebab removal duties?
In a Country with a land area and population the size of the United States, all politics is local, all future Revolutions will be local. If it happens, it will break out in little pockets all over, but with localized command and control. It would have to get pretty bad for any of this to happen. The build up to it would involve a lot of the citizenry operating underground in acts of defiance.
Doc Safari
07-22-16, 14:15
I've always been an opponent of any kind of armed insurrection in America, chiefly because I can only see one scenario where it might succeed: if the entire country is embroiled in conflict then the government forces might eventually be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers. This is a very unlikely scenario even if the country seems to be headed in that direction.
The only thing I see happening is that there might be enclaves of different factions that the government is content to simply contain and not engage.
We certainly are not in a scenario where a small portion of the population could "fight a revolution" and take over.
In a Country with a land area and population the size of the United States, all politics is local, all future Revolutions will be local. If it happens, it will break out in little pockets all over, but with localized command and control. It would have to get pretty bad for any of this to happen. The build up to it would involve a lot of the citizenry operating underground in acts of defiance.
That being said, the areas that will fare best under the "new" conditions, will be the one's positioned to effectively assume control over all aspects of their society that were once controlled by the feds. The less reliant they are on the government teat, the better.
Coal Dragger
07-22-16, 14:23
Have none of you learned anything from your time in Iraq and Afghanistan?
We as well as coalition forces tried for over a decade to control those places, with relatively tiny populations and much smaller geographical areas than the United States. Yet their insurgencies persist largely with small arms against all of our resources.
The US Government and US military would be hard pressed to control even small portions of the country that had active insurgencies. Furthermore they would run into a demographics problem with many of their combat troops, who tend to be from rural areas and share similar views with those they would be oppressing. Can you say wide scale desertion and mutiny?
The only way to win is to be willing to destroy the population of the area you wish to control. We're not even willing to do that over seas, I don't see it happening here either.
That being said, the areas that will fare best under the "new" conditions, will be the one's positioned to effectively assume control over all aspects of their society that were once controlled by the feds. The less reliant they are on the government teat, the better.
So an area reinstating federal firearms laws, EPA regs, communications regs, etc. would be on the fast track to getting back on track? Why have a breakdown in the first place if that is the case?
So an area reinstating federal firearms laws, EPA regs, communications regs, etc. would be on the fast track to getting back on track? Why have a breakdown in the first place if that is the case?
Not to speak for him but I'd wager he means to have what is currently overseen by federal authorities be delegated to locals who no doubt will have the best interests of their constituents in mind whereas the feds don't. No politically correct EPA tree-hugger regs, no libtard antigun laws, no "triggers" and "safe zones". Hell, no political correctness at all! God, what a refreshing thought!
Outlander Systems
07-22-16, 14:39
I disagree with Whitehead, in that...
In Outlander's post-American-Marxist-Hellhole-Dystopian-Future, that which most worries me is one thing, and one thing only:
The Local Warlord.
Not to speak for him but I'd wager he means to have what is currently overseen by federal authorities be delegated to locals who no doubt will have the best interests of their constituents in mind whereas the feds don't. No politically correct EPA tree-hugger regs, no libtard antigun laws, no "triggers" and "safe zones". Hell, no political correctness at all! God, what a refreshing thought!
So he meant the opposite of what the feds do? So why have a local equivalent if they are to do nothing?
Doc Safari
07-22-16, 14:43
I disagree with Whitehead, in that...
In Outlander's post-American-Marxist-Hellhole-Dystopian-Future, that which most worries me is one thing, and one thing only:
The Local Warlord.
I would add the complete lack, hope, or even fantasy of ever having toilet paper again.
Frightening.
I would add the complete lack, hope, or even fantasy of ever having toilet paper again.
Frightening.
Nah, I am sure there will be plenty of left over Hillary speeches around...
Outlander Systems
07-22-16, 14:47
Meh, I've used leaves so many times, I'm good on that.
Autumn leaves suck, and will rub that poop-chute raw...
I would add the complete lack, hope, or even fantasy of ever having toilet paper again.
Frightening.
The U.S. and every other swinging dick have tried to take Afghanistan, without success, and it's smaller than Texas.
Not to speak for him but I'd wager he means to have what is currently overseen by federal authorities be delegated to locals who no doubt will have the best interests of their constituents in mind whereas the feds don't. No politically correct EPA tree-hugger regs, no libtard antigun laws, no "triggers" and "safe zones". Hell, no political correctness at all! God, what a refreshing thought!
Feel free to respond for me if you like, because I'm not gonna dignify his trollbait with a response. ;)
So he meant the opposite of what the feds do? So why have a local equivalent if they are to do nothing?
So we don't have the REAL pollution of the 70's spewing into the air, not contrived and made-up global warming/climate change BS. So we don't allow violent felons to possess guns. So we don't bar firearms ownership for misdemeanors. You know, common sense stuff (and not the libtard version of "common sense" as in "common sense gun laws"). So food production is regulated to prevent poisonings. Simple stuff like that that has morphed into overbearing bureaucratic monoliths.
Doc Safari
07-22-16, 14:51
The U.S. and every other swinging dick have tried to take Afghanistan, without success, and it's smaller than Texas.
Its people also live in very mountainous rural terrain, and have learned to survive without smart phones, grocery stores, running water, medical facilities, dentists, cars, underwear, personal hygiene, and, yes.........toilet paper.
The average American will give up his guns for a box of Rice Krispies when the suck gets bad enough.
I would add the complete lack, hope, or even fantasy of ever having toilet paper again.
Frightening.
There's a Kimberly-Clark paper plant just downstream from our local power plant, with the forest providing the tree pulp within driving distance. I'd be willing to export TP to some of you, for a small "finder's fee" of course! :D
Doc Safari
07-22-16, 14:53
There's a Kimberly-Clark paper plant just downstream from our local power plant, with the forest providing the tree pulp within driving distance. I'd be willing to export TP to some of you, for a small "finder's fee" of course! :D
Deal. I will be growing marijuana, agave, or something else that produces a product that can be traded, so we're good.
The U.S. and every other swinging dick have tried to take Afghanistan, without success, and it's smaller than Texas.
It's different at home. Civil War is a good example.
It's different at home. Civil War is a good example.
Not really. Two distinct sides/armies, two distinct regions, over what is an abomination to humanity (slavery). Little different this time God forbid it ever happens. The enemy would be your cousin/brother/former friends. The battlefield would behind/next to/in front of you. The chivalry of the 1860's is L-O-N-G gone also.
Deal. I will be growing marijuana, agave, or something else that produces a product that can be traded, so we're good.
The finder's fee will be waived in that case!
That's how it's done folks. :)
It's different at home. Civil War is a good example.
Too many differences to get into right now, short on time.
Not really. Two distinct sides/armies, two distinct regions, over what is an abomination to humanity (slavery). Little different this time God forbid it ever happens. The enemy would be your cousin/brother/former friends. The battlefield would behind/next to/in front of you. The chivalry of the 1860's is L-O-N-G gone also.
Didn't have a lot to do with slavery. Just pointing out all the stops would be pulled out for any home battles.
Don't think I have heard the targeting of civilian areas as falling under the definition of chivalry before either.
I will start taking lessons now. Do I get a cool beret to wear for kebab removal duties?
It comes with the accordion.
Work on your soulless, dead inside million yard stare though
Didn't have a lot to do with slavery. Just pointing out all the stops would be pulled out for any home battles.
Don't think I have heard the targeting of civilian areas as falling under the definition of chivalry before either.
I have to ask this. Do you actually work at making sure that your post contribute absolutely nothing to the conversation?
I have to ask this. Do you actually work at making sure that your post contribute absolutely nothing to the conversation?
He claimed the war was over slavery, but that seemed to primarily a ploy to keep Europe out of the war.
And I had never heard targeting civilians, such as the march to the sea, as being chivalry. I don't think anyone should have any concerns about a lack of chivalry should war ever erupt in North America based on the civil war standard.
He claimed the war was over slavery, but that seemed to primarily a ploy to keep Europe out of the war.
And I had never heard targeting civilians, such as the march to the sea, as being chivalry. I don't think anyone should have any concerns about a lack of chivalry should war ever erupt in North America based on the civil war standard.
All of which have nothing to do with this thread. So why go down that road.
The point is that it will be nothing like the Civil War. It will be much more violent and there will be many more players, not just two sides. And yes if something like this were to happen today the American Civil War would look like an English Tea Party in comparison to the atrocities that you think may have happened.
Again, how are you adding to this thread?
Outlander Systems
07-22-16, 19:51
Dude, CW2 would be hell on ****ing earth.
There would be flame from sea-to-sea.
The system of government we'd have would be feudalism.
The richest drug dealer in your A.O. would become the new Warlord.
His weapons cache is what the left imagines we have in our gun safes.
His ruthlessness will be unpeered.
Your "taxes" will be paid in treasure or blood.
The penalties for your "crimes" against him will be dealt out to your family; not you.
You do not have enough friends, mags, or ammo.
Dude, CW2 would be hell on ****ing earth.
There would be flame from sea-to-sea.
The system of government we'd have would be feudalism.
The richest drug dealer in your A.O. would become the new Warlord.
His weapons cache is what the left imagines we have in our gun safes.
His ruthlessness will be unpeered.
Your "taxes" will be paid in treasure or blood.
The penalties for your "crimes" against him will be dealt out to your family; not you.
You do not have enough friends, mags, or ammo.
THIS.
A buncha semi switched on guys really are outnumbered by the massive waves of humanity your local dope king can rustle up.
Imagine Yugoslavia mixed with African Strife and a dash of drug piracy and you have CW2 on a pleasant day.
It'll get classist, elitist, and racist most ricky tick.
Anybody able to Balkanize a segment of their own shall be constantly besieged.
All the politicians will be on planes to Switzerland or Monaco with gold and pound sterling and not looking back.
Any country that tried "peace keeping" would get annihilated.
And it'll be pretty gruesome. Anybody thinking they would be the next JEB Stuart needs to lay off the LSD
THIS.
A buncha semi switched on guys really are outnumbered by the massive waves of humanity your local dope king can rustle up.
Imagine Yugoslavia mixed with African Strife and a dash of drug piracy and you have CW2 on a pleasant day.
It'll get classist, elitist, and racist most ricky tick.
Anybody able to Balkanize a segment of their own shall be constantly besieged.
All the politicians will be on planes to Switzerland or Monaco with gold and pound sterling and not looking back.
Any country that tried "peace keeping" would get annihilated.
And it'll be pretty gruesome. Anybody thinking they would be the next JEB Stuart needs to lay off the LSD
Relax dude and knock back a cold one!. I didn't see anyone in here having fantasies. Most of us are mature enough to realize the things of which we speak are nothing any sane man would hope for! In fact, a reluctance comes to mind. That said, that reluctance should never be taken as weakness.
I called the Balkans/Yugoslavia parallels of this multiculti nonsense years ago. Force incompatible people to live next to each other in "harmony" and you'll only make tensions worse.
I hate these civil liberties groups. They hate having a police state, yet advocate for extending civil liberties to those who see to destroy us.
You can't have both.
If you let in millions of hostiles, you must have a police state to try to keep shit from exploding (literally and figuratively).
If you don't want a police state, then you have to select only compatible peoples/cultures/religions (which is what we basically did for a long ass time, whether intentionally or not, since immigration wasn't subsidized).
Western society is based on high trust. That is how you can have freedom - because you aren't flooding the nation with a hostile enemy.
The immigration flood is an engineered process to break down Western national identities, strip individual freedoms, and get lots of immigrant block votes in the process.
wilson1911
07-22-16, 21:25
It is not very often the the citizens will have a preempted strike against their govt. It is always after the fact the gov has done some grievous deed against the people. Historical facts dictate that we will continue to be good sheeples until after it has happened. Statistics show that 70% will still do as the govt wants afterwards also. How much decay of local/state/fed govt is dependent on geographical location. Needless to say the metro's and burb's will be the worst areas. As an X prepper, I used to believe that we would rise up and replace our corrupt govt......after I began looking at real history I realized things would not ever go that way.
The propaganda of the govt is too well honed to leave anything to chance. No one is willing to give up TP, TV, or put their family in danger. The only thing I think will happen is a monetary collapse or a disaster of some sort. Whether this is done as a false flag or natural disaster. The govt will have high and low control areas.
Just keep you hat low and ears up. Never stand out in anything.
TacticalSledgehammer
07-22-16, 21:46
There's so many ways a civil war or 2nd revolution could go.
First I don't think anything will get started by firing all of us up I some issue like we think. Let's say all guns are outlawed over night. Sure we're going to be pissed off about it, but the government will crush almost all forms of organization among us. The media will be instructed to not report on anything. Social media will be shut down. Essentially leaving us standing around being mad. Small groups may form, but law enforcement could crush them. Worse case you'll get deemed an "enemy combatant" (as per the NDAA) and you'll be hunted down by the military and smoked. Our only hope would be for another government to bail us out if it came to that. You can forget that being a NATO country.
Outside of that you have the constant battle between conservatives and liberals. Blacks vs cops, the threat of terrorists causing a major disruption. If any of that escalates, you already know which side the government will take.
I feel like this administration wants some kind of major disturbance to happen so they can rule over us and make their own laws while the constitution is suspended under martial law. The only way we'll get ahead during this is to remain level headed and hope we get politicians in office that hold our views until we can reverse the liberal mindset of our youth.
Averageman
07-22-16, 21:55
In a Country with a land area and population the size of the United States, all politics is local, all future Revolutions will be local. If it happens, it will break out in little pockets all over, but with localized command and control. It would have to get pretty bad for any of this to happen. The build up to it would involve a lot of the citizenry operating underground in acts of defiance.
I have to agree with the "Think Local" that OH58D is talking about here.
If things went South and we broke up, there wouldn't likely be a clear set of lines. What we would have is the northern parts of the East Coast, most of the West Coast and parts of the great lakes regions going one way, and most of the rest of the "Fly over States" going another.
What you might find is a large part of the Blue State folks falling back to friendly areas or something akin to sanctuary Cities in our Red States.
I would guess these would likely be urban area's, I would also guess these would become pretty dangerous once the power gets turned off and the food stops being delivered right away. The likely hood that our Socialist Progressive element would turn on each other pretty quickly is a given.
The rest of us in Red States would likely eye each other suspiciously from time to time, but default in to a working Co-Op of mutual sustainment.
Dude, CW2 would be hell on ****ing earth.
There would be flame from sea-to-sea.
The system of government we'd have would be feudalism.
The richest drug dealer in your A.O. would become the new Warlord.
His weapons cache is what the left imagines we have in our gun safes.
His ruthlessness will be unpeered.
Your "taxes" will be paid in treasure or blood.
The penalties for your "crimes" against him will be dealt out to your family; not you.
You do not have enough friends, mags, or ammo.
Welcome to Mexico. It ain't all that bad as long as you're dirt poor.
Outlander Systems
07-22-16, 22:09
Roger ****ing that.
Welcome to Mexico. It ain't all that bad as long as you're dirt poor.
I've been reading these posts, and lots of interesting comments. This Country has a lot of moving parts, lots of differing geographic areas, cultural backgrounds, mindsets and experiences. Our last Revolution involved a foreign World power thousands of miles away with a small local population in a relatively small geographic area. A new Revolution would be all domestic, and a lot of people won't have the stomach for it. By nature, Americans try to be law abiding, placing trust in government that laws will be created and enforced for the greater good, and you raise your kids to respect the law, the people who enforce the law and the people who create the law.
A majority of the population would have no part in any Revolution, as was the case in the last one. That's why I think that defiance against the government would appear in pockets of areas all over, with small guerrilla groups. Kind of like Red Dawn that some get a hard on for. It could get bad enough that National Guard would be called up, with limited success, but the real bad asses now would be US Marshals. They have some well equipped para-military units and I have seen them operate with questionable tactics that ride on the very edge of legality.
Also, if you're within 25 air miles of the US International border (North, South, East and West), your residence can be entered without a search warrant by Federal Agents, and within 100 air miles you can be stopped, detained, questioned, etc. for anything they might suspect. All of this thanks to US vs. Martinez-Fuerte 1976. I have seen this personally here in New Mexico at the Permanent Border Patrol checkpoint 63 miles north of the Mexican border on I-25.
What is all this talk about drug lords rallying support?
I'm not saying you're wrong; I would just like some explanation...
I was reading this article that tb-av posted a link to in another thread. It is very interesting that EVERYONE that talks this topic the same way. It is always about the "evil government" repressing the people and the people rising up. This got me thinking. Does anyone know of another type of "theory" (I will call it that due to the lack of a better term) about how this will go down? What I mean is that everything that I have read is about the people fighting the government. If you look at history that is not always the case. Many times it is one faction against another faction and the government in the middle. A good example would be Beirut in the 1980's. Multiple factions attacking each other trying to gain leverage.
I started to think about a hypothetical situation and many different scenarios came to mind. Left goes after right in a conservative area to eliminate the voting pool and so forth.
I just find it very interesting that none of these "theories" ever go down that road and they are all the same.
Thoughts?
There Will Be No Second American Revolution: The Futility of an Armed Revolt
By John W. Whitehead
July 18, 2016
“A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty.”—James Madison
America is a ticking time bomb.
All that remains to be seen is who—or what—will set fire to the fuse.
We are poised at what seems to be the pinnacle of a manufactured breakdown, with police shooting unarmed citizens, snipers shooting police, global and domestic violence rising, and a political showdown between two presidential candidates equally matched in unpopularity.
The preparations for the Republican and Democratic national conventions taking place in Cleveland and Philadelphia—augmented by a $50 million federal security grant for each city—provide a foretaste of how the government plans to deal with any individual or group that steps out of line: they will be censored, silenced, spied on, caged, intimidated, interrogated, investigated, recorded, tracked, labeled, held at gunpoint, detained, restrained, arrested, tried and found guilty.
For instance, anticipating civil unrest and mass demonstrations in connection with the Republican Party convention, Cleveland officials set up makeshift prisons, extra courtrooms to handle protesters, and shut down a local university in order to house 1,700 riot police and their weapons. The city’s courts are preparing to process up to 1,000 people a day. Additionally, the FBI has also been conducting “interviews” with activists in advance of the conventions to discourage them from engaging in protests.
Make no mistake, the government is ready for a civil uprising.
Indeed, the government has been preparing for this moment for years.
The rest of the article is here:
https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/there_will_be_no_second_american_revolution_the_futility_of_an_armed_r
John Whitehead needs to stop jacking my old posts...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/538094__ARCHIVED_THREAD____The_SECOND_Revolution___.html&page=1
Originally Posted :: 10/2/2002 11:18:16 PM
OK, I know the general consensus among patriotic, freedom loving, constitutional gun owners is that we stand ready to feed the gun grabbers and other "domestic" enemies to the hogs. Gun boards (especially those with a "militia" edge)are ripe with Phase ONE (Expose the Bildeburgs, etc.) plans of the coming revolution that will wipe out socialism and restore consitutional representation to "the people."
The logic being once the "citizenry" is made aware of the diabolical plot and awakened we will "throw the bums out" and restore a truly representative government in Phase TWO. After all we have at least 750 men with SKSs waiting for the "marching orders." And once these fine Americans fire the "first shot heard round the county" everyone will jump on the bandwagon and join the winnning team.
Just a few problems.
1. The populace has already been enlightened to the problem and they just don't give a shit. Seriously, Bill Clinton openly wiped his ass with the Consitution on a regular basis and the average Oprah viewer thinks he's some kind of ****ing hero. Hillary commited felony (and probably capital) crimes and was duly elected Senator. I firmly believe you could publish photos of the Clintons having 3 way sex with Janet Reno while negotiating the sale of NORAD systems to China while Osama Bin Laden films the decadence and 54% of the country would still vote for them. Just remember Marion Barry got RE ELECTED if you were about to say it would NEVER Happen.
2. The average "gun owner" doesn't even know what is legal anymore or what laws have been passed until AFTER he has been arrested for an illegal configured firearm. he ain't exactly in touch with anything let alone waiting for "marching orders." At best the MOST any gun owner will do is occassionaly spend $25.00 on a NRA membership every couple of years to help fight the good fight. But don't ask him to be a annual member every year or give anything extra. After all $25.00 is a shitload of money. You can get a gun "transfered" for $25.00.
3. As soon as the 37 members of the various militias "open fire" when the timing is right, they will be immediately portrayed as extremist fringe groups and tied to white supremecists, doomsday cults, satanists and NAMBLA. NAMBLA will sue for defamation and win. When these patriots are rounded up and sentenced to life for "crimes against the Consitution" the nation will breath a collective sigh of relief. After all these 37 rednecks with pump action shotguns are certainly the GREATEST threat to national security that has ever been faced.
4. Mr. average gun owner will watch it all on TV from the comforts of his lazy boy in his air conditioned living room on a SONY Big Screen. He will think to himself that gun owners like that give him a bad name. He will feel safe that he owns a pump action shotgun in case he ever needs to defend himself from such terrorists. He has no idea that Congress is currently in a closed door session drafting legislation to outlaw the NEW weapon of choice for terrorists, the Pump Action Assault Shotgun.
Dude, CW2 would be hell on ****ing earth.
There would be flame from sea-to-sea.
The system of government we'd have would be feudalism.
The richest drug dealer in your A.O. would become the new Warlord.
His weapons cache is what the left imagines we have in our gun safes.
His ruthlessness will be unpeered.
Your "taxes" will be paid in treasure or blood.
The penalties for your "crimes" against him will be dealt out to your family; not you.
You do not have enough friends, mags, or ammo.
Yep. My only hope is that my personal fiefdom is more risk than reward.
Straight Shooter
07-23-16, 03:56
THIS.
A buncha semi switched on guys really are outnumbered by the massive waves of humanity your local dope king can rustle up.
Imagine Yugoslavia mixed with African Strife and a dash of drug piracy and you have CW2 on a pleasant day.
It'll get classist, elitist, and racist most ricky tick.
Anybody able to Balkanize a segment of their own shall be constantly besieged.
All the politicians will be on planes to Switzerland or Monaco with gold and pound sterling and not looking back.
Any country that tried "peace keeping" would get annihilated.
And it'll be pretty gruesome. Anybody thinking they would be the next JEB Stuart needs to lay off the LSD
FF, I thought about your post, and a few others for awhile.
It seems to me, when the "cuffs " are off, and shit has hit the fan, with no worry about cops being called or any legal reprocussion, that there will be A LOT of mo'facka's that best be hiding somewhere deep & dark. Im telling you now-every single fvckstick who then thinks they can block a road, that think they will be able to force their will onto others, who is selling dope, molesting kids, raping women, stealing, thugging, all these and more are OPEN TARGETS to be hunted down and eliminated, on the spot, no Johnny Cochrans or Al Sharptons or ACLU or Southern Poverty whatever to help them get out of it. I personally see it as a time of potentially GREAT justice, a much needed re-set, along with the aforementioned maladies that would also come with CW2.
If you NEVER believe anything Ive said, you can put money in the bank when I tell you I know..many...people who are salivating over just such an event happening. And Ill add to that enemies list..ALL MEDIA. The media, the dregs of society and most all politicians are gonna have hell to pay if this ever occurs.
I personally don't care what others thoughts are, but myself- Im tired of treading water. Lets hash it out, and whoever wins, that's how its gonna be.
When Hillary is yalls next POTUS...answer me then.
Moose-Knuckle
07-23-16, 04:43
Neo-feudalism is where this is all headed under a one world government, laugh I know cause it will never work but that doesn't mean the power players won't attempt it . . . again and again.
Rex 84, Garden Plot, Cable Splicer have all been leaked and are now open source. Many . . . many COG plans on the table for American Revolution/Civil War 2.0.
I would love nothing more for there to be a mass awakening but most people are completely ****ing stupid.
When the ant hill gets kicked over people won't know who in the hell to shoot. Chaos will rule the day, after enough carnage and decay people will clamor for a savior. In step the new government body . . . rinse and repeat.
If I had Peter Weyland money I'd colonize Bouvet Island and have a Bigelow Aerospace orbital station as a bolthole.
FF, I thought about your post, and a few others for awhile.
It seems to me, when the "cuffs " are off, and shit has hit the fan, with no worry about cops being called or any legal reprocussion, that there will be A LOT of mo'facka's that best be hiding somewhere deep & dark. Im telling you now-every single fvckstick who then thinks they can block a road, that think they will be able to force their will onto others, who is selling dope, molesting kids, raping women, stealing, thugging, all these and more are OPEN TARGETS to be hunted down and eliminated, on the spot, no Johnny Cochrans or Al Sharptons or ACLU or Southern Poverty whatever to help them get out of it. I personally see it as a time of potentially GREAT justice, a much needed re-set, along with the aforementioned maladies that would also come with CW2.
If you NEVER believe anything Ive said, you can put money in the bank when I tell you I know..many...people who are salivating over just such an event happening. And Ill add to that enemies list..ALL MEDIA. The media, the dregs of society and most all politicians are gonna have hell to pay if this ever occurs.
I personally don't care what others thoughts are, but myself- Im tired of treading water. Lets hash it out, and whoever wins, that's how its gonna be.
When Hillary is your next POTUS...answer me then.
All that will also happen, especially at first. But then to your horror, especially in urban areas, you will discover you are greatly outnumbered by people who care about NOTHING while you try and defend your family, your values and your humanity.
Sure you might be able to go off the grid and live in some Ted Kazcinsky shack but that is tough work. And if you have any dreams of forming some "Alexandria" community, we'll we all know what happened to them. Wolves come a knocking.
If it happened, I'd duck it for as long as possible, killing bad people whenever possible and doing my best not to screw things up for anyone innocent. But that is not really a long term plan for success. At the end the best thing you can hope for is an Alamo scenario where you take a lot of them ****ers with you.
Straight Shooter
07-23-16, 05:00
THIS.
A buncha semi switched on guys really are outnumbered by the massive waves of humanity your local dope king can rustle up.
Imagine Yugoslavia mixed with African Strife and a dash of drug piracy and you have CW2 on a pleasant day.
It'll get classist, elitist, and racist most ricky tick.
Anybody able to Balkanize a segment of their own shall be constantly besieged.
All the politicians will be on planes to Switzerland or Monaco with gold and pound sterling and not looking back.
Any country that tried "peace keeping" would get annihilated.
And it'll be pretty gruesome. Anybody thinking they would be the next JEB Stuart needs to lay off the LSD
All that will also happen, especially at first. But then to your horror, especially in urban areas, you will discover you are greatly outnumbered by people who care about NOTHING while you try and defend your family, your values and your humanity.
Sure you might be able to go off the grid and live in some Ted Kazcinsky shack but that is tough work. And if you have any dreams of forming some "Alexandria" community, we'll we all know what happened to them. Wolves come a knocking.
If it happened, I'd duck it for as long as possible, killing bad people whenever possible and doing my best not to screw things up for anyone innocent. But that is not really a long term plan for success. At the end the best thing you can hope for is an Alamo scenario where you take a lot of them ****ers with you.
You could, of course, be right. I disagree.
for one, I and mine wont be in an urban area of any sort. Yes, several of us have a prepared place. Two, it wont be all pina colada's and wine coolers, but we SURE AS HELL wont be starving, or without most resources as we are and have been ready, first with spiritual preparedness, then with mindset, then other physical assets.
As for MY area- you couldn't be more wrong, which is why its my area. Not everybody will be fvcked ducks in a SHTF. I guess in some ways we all will be to an extent, but only to the extent you've let yourself be.
Finally- what visionary could ever plan for long term success? NOBODY. Ill leave that to my Lord & Savior, He's got my back on that one.
There's so many ways a civil war or 2nd revolution could go.
First I don't think anything will get started by firing all of us up I some issue like we think. Let's say all guns are outlawed over night. Sure we're going to be pissed off about it, but the government will crush almost all forms of organization among us. The media will be instructed to not report on anything. Social media will be shut down. Essentially leaving us standing around being mad. Small groups may form, but law enforcement could crush them. Worse case you'll get deemed an "enemy combatant" (as per the NDAA) and you'll be hunted down by the military and smoked. Our only hope would be for another government to bail us out if it came to that. You can forget that being a NATO country.
Outside of that you have the constant battle between conservatives and liberals. Blacks vs cops, the threat of terrorists causing a major disruption. If any of that escalates, you already know which side the government will take.
I feel like this administration wants some kind of major disturbance to happen so they can rule over us and make their own laws while the constitution is suspended under martial law. The only way we'll get ahead during this is to remain level headed and hope we get politicians in office that hold our views until we can reverse the liberal mindset of our youth.
Sorry, I just don't share the omnipotent view of the feds that you do. "Crushed", "smoked"? You give too much credit for such a widespread problem; we're not talking the compound in Waco or a hut on Ruby Ridge. Also, they have to sleep somewhere, and so do their families. Never underestimate the sheer brutality of vengeance-driven violence, especially when one has been irrevocably wronged in their own eyes. You didn't turn in X, so now you're a felon and we will either imprison or kill you. For some reason it doesn't seem to me that will sit well with a significant [enough] portion of people in this country to just acquiesce and roll over. Just sayin'.
Add Islamists to the factions fighting for control. A breakdown of government and societal controls will inevitably result in Islamist groups fighting to set up a Sharia government at least regionally in the US. This will include Muslims already here who support this, as well as a large influx of foreign fighters across our borders and through our ports.
Outlander Systems
07-23-16, 08:55
Power loves a vacuum...
Thusly, if the Government, for whatever reason, is in absentia, something else will fill that void.
There are currently massive, international, criminal organizations, that are both profitable, and operational, despite being under constant surveillance, and attack, by Law Enforcement. Should something occur whereby LE's budget is severely diminished, or LE is simply unable to interdict, these criminal enterprises will grow, and adapt accordingly.
Should there be any calamitous event, whereby traditional means of travel or communications are disrupted, the local "branch manager" for said criminal enterprise may very well decide to "go rogue" and establish his own splinter organization in his particular AO. Considering that this individual most likely has an existing, massive network of contacts, and may already be in a position of leadership, it will simply be business-as-usual, only without those pesky Law Enforcement Officers getting in the way.
While one might argue that there won't be a market for illegal drugs, or other contraband, should said calamitous event unfold, the product is irrelevant. Said individuals would simply adapt to whatever continues to give them control over popular supplies. This could be anything from seizing medicine, to rationing out stolen truckloads of food.
Eventually, the organizational structure of said former criminal enterprise would more closely resemble a cult, or militia.
The "Dope Man" might start to resemble something more akin to a Warlord.
Rival criminal enterprises might try to vie for power; however after heavy fighting and subjugation by the new, more powerful Warlord, they may choose to align themselves with him, lest they watch more of their children, friends, and family endure his barbarism.
With his newly consolidated power, said Warlord force-projects, and establishes control over his new fiefdom. The rival "businessmen" who are aligned with him will become the new "tax collectors" and "law enforcers" in the outlying areas where they were operating. While you may have your own self-sustaining farm, the Warlord has guns and muscle, and if you're allowed to keep any of your farm's production, you can consider yourself blessed.
The Warlord has ways of being extremely persuasive...
Preppers and Survivalists fare only slightly better than their non-Survivalist kin. Holed-up in their retreats, they are able to make a less rocky transition into the new order. They simply aren't starved out, nor are they participants in the initial food riots, that occur as the Warlord is slowly consolidating power. Their isolation ultimately leads to disaster, as a family in the hills is no match for the Warlord's tax collectors, who make routine supply/presence/get-to-know-the-neighbors patrols...
Regular, honest citizens, and local tradesmen will be forced into fealty with their new Warlord, through a combination of terror and necessity. His taxes are oppressive, and he, or his "Knights" will accept alternative payment, should you be unable to provide whatever passes as currency in the new feudal order. You may have a daughter that could serve as payment, or your 18-hour-a-day skills with a shovel may suffice. Perhaps your son will make an excellent conscript in his "Army." His previous access to, and stockpiles of, highly addictive illicit drugs will serve to create an addiction in his conscripts. Should their loyalty to him falter, their loyalty to the "dope" is unwavering.
If fortunate, you may remain a "tenant" in your own home, and not forced to relocate to one of the Warlord's various "Workshop Dormitories." Whatever skills you acquired through your civilized life, will be allocated accordingly to the Warlord's ends.
The Warlord loves, absolutely loves, resistors.
Absolutely incapable of mounting any true or meaningful opposition to his machinations, resistors are a high-value propaganda tool for the Warlord.
Any "mercy" shown to those aligned with him will not be afforded to resistors. Public torturings, and executions of the most gruesome sort are used as a demented, disgusting, form of post-calamitous entertainment. His "torture-porn" serves as a reminder of what happens to those unwilling to ally themselves with his goals. His preferred method of execution is forcing resistors to ingest iron filings. A salvaged electro-magnet from the junkyard sits in the town square, where resistors are strapped-down, and torn asunder from the inside-out. 21st century-style draw-and-quartering.
The general public learns its lessons quickly.
Resistance is feudal...
Sweet dreams,
Mike
What is all this talk about drug lords rallying support?
I'm not saying you're wrong; I would just like some explanation...
Unlikely anything will ever happen, at least from what carries the label of the 2nd amendment community. The average gun owner supports half of those in on the legislative process, over half the judges, legislation/directives coming from those groups, any money funding those operations that doesn't have stronger ties to democrats, and 100% of police and soldiers carrying out those policies.
Did you see a Revolution when Prohibition was the law of the land? And Prohibition was selectively enforced based on area. Some areas allowed personal ownership of booze, some locales banned it outright. Most Americans laid low and utilized the underground economy to get their liquor by making it and moving it around. Some violated by making their own for personal consumption. My family did the latter, my wife's family were first class bootleggers in Louisiana, selling a lot of it across the Sabine River in Texas.
I still say that any Revolution in America will be localized events, but spread out over huge areas of the nation with no centralized command and control. You'll have active participants, sympathizers/supporters and people who will take no part in it, and the latter will be the majority. Some will engage in direct confrontation, most will defy the new rule of law by moving their activities underground and trying to wait it out. Where you are and the makeup of the population will be a factor as to what happens.
Have none of you learned anything from your time in Iraq and Afghanistan?
We as well as coalition forces tried for over a decade to control those places, with relatively tiny populations and much smaller geographical areas than the United States. Yet their insurgencies persist largely with small arms against all of our resources.
The US Government and US military would be hard pressed to control even small portions of the country that had active insurgencies. Furthermore they would run into a demographics problem with many of their combat troops, who tend to be from rural areas and share similar views with those they would be oppressing. Can you say wide scale desertion and mutiny?
The only way to win is to be willing to destroy the population of the area you wish to control. We're not even willing to do that over seas, I don't see it happening here either.
This is a very good argument in my opinion. To further expound, local police, even the state police, and national guard units may very well side against any federal tyranny. Before any of that happened, I would expect to start seeing serious secession movements developing as well. By the way I suspect that these issues are why the Democrat Party (hell maybe even the Republicans) power establishment wants to federalize local police forces, less potential resistance to Federal overreach.
I was reading this article that tb-av posted a link to in another thread. It is very interesting that EVERYONE that talks this topic the same way. It is always about the "evil government" repressing the people and the people rising up. This got me thinking. Does anyone know of another type of "theory" (I will call it that due to the lack of a better term) alone how this will go down? What I mean is that everything that I have read is about the people fighting the government. If you look at history that is not always the case. Many times it is one faction against another faction and the government in the middle. A good example would be Beirut in the 1980's. Multiple factions attacking each other trying to gain leverage.
I started to think about a hypothetical situation and many different scenarios came to mind. Left goes after right in a conservative area to eliminate the voting pool and so forth.
I just find it very interesting that none of these "theories" ever go down that road and they are all the same.
Thoughts?
There Will Be No Second American Revolution: The Futility of an Armed Revolt
By John W. Whitehead
July 18, 2016
“A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty.”—James Madison
America is a ticking time bomb.
All that remains to be seen is who—or what—will set fire to the fuse.
We are poised at what seems to be the pinnacle of a manufactured breakdown, with police shooting unarmed citizens, snipers shooting police, global and domestic violence rising, and a political showdown between two presidential candidates equally matched in unpopularity.
The preparations for the Republican and Democratic national conventions taking place in Cleveland and Philadelphia—augmented by a $50 million federal security grant for each city—provide a foretaste of how the government plans to deal with any individual or group that steps out of line: they will be censored, silenced, spied on, caged, intimidated, interrogated, investigated, recorded, tracked, labeled, held at gunpoint, detained, restrained, arrested, tried and found guilty.
For instance, anticipating civil unrest and mass demonstrations in connection with the Republican Party convention, Cleveland officials set up makeshift prisons, extra courtrooms to handle protesters, and shut down a local university in order to house 1,700 riot police and their weapons. The city’s courts are preparing to process up to 1,000 people a day. Additionally, the FBI has also been conducting “interviews” with activists in advance of the conventions to discourage them from engaging in protests.
Make no mistake, the government is ready for a civil uprising.
Indeed, the government has been preparing for this moment for years.
The rest of the article is here:
https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/john_whiteheads_commentary/there_will_be_no_second_american_revolution_the_futility_of_an_armed_r
I honestly think that some sort of uprising against the Govt would be a mess. Hell you cannot get 50 gun owners to not argue, bicker, and to get along at an IDPA match. This same group is going to successfully mount a campaign against the Gov't. Come on now. Just the amount of ego stroking alone for "who's going to be in charge for what outfit" would be the nail in the coffin. You'd have thousands of guys who were Vets but in a capacity that has nothing to do with fighting (like a tank mechanic) striving to be the next General Patton just on that fact alone. Forget if he is an effective leader. Think about the movie The Postman. By all accounts, General Bethlehem was running a tight but unethical ship. There is no telling how much blood he spilled attaining that position.
I do believe Vet's who later moved into domestic LE would have a ton of advantage over most, just because they have seen and should understand both sides of the coin. Waging war and dealing with domestic shitbags. Maybe that is why you see a war forming against Vets using PTSD to try and disarm them and make them feel mentally screwed or inferior because they heard the call, Manned up and went to fight for their country.
Without a doubt, when the balloon goes up, your most violent street gang leaders and the gangs they run will be the biggest threat to any of us. Now they just push drugs and hoes, maybe some guns here and there. Thrown in a domestic system collapse and it will be like the opening scene in Blackhawk Down when them using a 50 cal to steal rice that they can gouge starving people for later on. I suspect their numbers will swell with people who might have been decent folks prior but in uncertainty, look for protection in the larger herd. If things go south I see a huge push by Mexican Cartels Northward. So while TX & AZ is the place to be now, I bet the farm they will be just as bloody and ruthless as your large cities and surrounding suburbia.
IMHO, I think the least bloody, most effective version or option would be for a Sombra Negra type group of mil/le (ex or active) to form and ruthlessly go after the few insulated soles out there who are fueling and fanning the flames. The ones pumping money into it, the ones pushing an outright lie as an agenda. Think about how things would have been in Europe if a solid group of Men seen the writing on the wall and went after Hitler and his top supporters early on and were successful. Now I know there was a boom in prosperity there and most were happy to have that, so that is probably why nothing happened. But right now, we are already having mini-communist type insurrections in the US. Those same type protest and insurrections were leading factors in Germany, in Spain, and Italy pre-WWII BTW. These events are the wet dreams of people like Bill Ayers, Bern-ah-mean Dorn, Sorros, Bloomberg, mass media.... coming true. I think if those type people started experiencing what Mussolini did in the end things would slowly start to reverse. They constantly cause unrest in society unchecked. Their Universities and their wealth insulate them from the havoc they sew. Not just here, it is the same shot callers causing trouble in Europe right now too. They are just using the Muslims as their tool to break down European societies there.
The Govt is a pawn in this, same as BLM. It is the Panthers vs the Broncos. Could have been any team that made it through the season. If the Superbowl is a synonym for the up coming chaos we will see here in the US and you want to stop it from happening, you don't go after the teams or players. That just polarizes everything. You go after the men who put the Superbowl on. The ones who fund it and advertise it.
With all the corrupt bs we have seen in the past 20-30 years (just look at Billary), if you still think there are not major domestic and international power players pushing us in the direction we are headed there is no help for you. I've said it before, it sickens me to hear our leaders talk about how men in caves 10,000 miles away are the major threat to our freedom. Yeah, I know they are a threat. Any fool knows that. Ultimately, the absolute biggest threat to Liberty and the level of happiness each American regardless of color (or Europeans in Europe for that matter) experiences each and every day is not in a cave in Afghanistan. It is was a Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago who liked bombing police and grew to be a major political influence, it was a Mayor of NY who bankrolls a war against the constitution, it thrived in the halls of the Frankfurt School, it broke the Bank of England....and on and on. That is the faces of those who seek to torch your freedoms. Yes, fundamental Islam is bad, BLM is proving to be bad...on and on; but who bankrolls them. Who pushes and shames European cultures into opening their borders to those who will eventually be their executioners?
That is the enemy. If there is some sort of uprising and Americans want it over ASAP, stopping the influence of those types is the key. But honestly I fear we are too far gone. I believe these BLM protests are already our Kristallnacht and their first order of business is to change the face of those who inforce the law and how it is inforced in the US.
ETA: another thing we have to fix in the US is this immature attitude of it being cool to be bad, not contribute, and leech off others. It has to start with kids. I do not have the universial answer on how to combat it. But it is a signifant factor. Kids learn it young, and usually live by it for life.
Yeah, I'm probably on a list now for sure for ^ but it is the truth.
Something I have always wondered, what is it in men that causes some to stand up and others to live under a boot heel?
Look at Northern Ireland.
Look at the US in the 1770's.
Any place where people finally decided, screw it, you stepped over the final line, you habitual line stepper (Charlie Murphy plug in btw) and it was game on. Your average law abiding citizen in the US has already put up with way more than we did from King George before we went loud with his troops.
Then look at how millions and millions of humans have walked themselves right into the grave all over the world in the past 100 years alone without so much as a verbal objection. Human nature is a very strange thing indeed.
Outlander Systems
07-23-16, 09:52
Hootie,
Previous institutions didn't have the weaponized propaganda device, also known as the "24-hour News Cycle" to constantly mind**** their populace into manufactured internecine conflict and back-biting.
No need to put boot-to-ass, when you can simply put thought-to-skull.
Hootie,
Previous institutions didn't have the weaponized propaganda device, also known as the "24-hour News Cycle" to constantly mind**** their populace into manufactured internecine conflict and back-biting.
No need to put boot-to-ass, when you can simply put thought-to-skull.
I know. The media is the mouthpiece of those who are the Fathers of all the BS.
Honestly, at this point in my life I am really starting to think that there is a group of extremely rich and powerful men in the world who have made a betting game of getting drunk (or high) and seeing just how many buttons they can push before people start killing each other off. Think about a group of extremely wealthy Heath Ledger Jokers all trying to out do one another. Things are so screwed up in so many different ways at so many different levels, you cannot honestly dismiss that theory as a possibility.
Outlander Systems
07-23-16, 10:08
Agreed.
Once you have all the money in the world, the only rung left to climb is the tower of power...
Straight Shooter
07-23-16, 10:12
Add Islamists to the factions fighting for control. A breakdown of government and societal controls will inevitably result in Islamist groups fighting to set up a Sharia government at least regionally in the US. This will include Muslims already here who support this, as well as a large influx of foreign fighters across our borders and through our ports.
That's SUCH a wet dream. Wont be no "civilians" in THAT bunch..itll be kill on site. I believe you are 100% right they'll try, and I think Im fairly right they wont last long-at all.
Reading these posts it's just seems that we are doomed to the fate of Winston Smith. Guns will be confiscated and we will do nothing, other rights will be revoked and we will not have the means to do anything.
I understand you are being realistic but it just all sounds too defeatist to me.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-23-16, 10:49
A small minority would support a revolution (be it towards the left or right) and the majority would oppose it. Couple that with the FACT that nearly every American man is a coward (including us-prove me wrong, our forefathers would have had a second revolution YEARS ago, not just due to todays topics) and you will never see a second American revolution. It's a silly fantasy anymore.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-23-16, 10:49
Reading these posts it's just seems that we are doomed to the fate of Winston Smith. Guns will be confiscated and we will do nothing, other rights will be revoked and we will not have the means to do anything.
I understand you are being realistic but it just all sounds too defeatist to me.
Who fought NFA, GCA, AWB, etc?
Outlander Systems
07-23-16, 10:53
#Crickets
Who fought NFA, GCA, AWB, etc?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-23-16, 11:02
Reading these posts it's just seems that we are doomed to the fate of Winston Smith. Guns will be confiscated and we will do nothing, other rights will be revoked and we will not have the means to do anything.
I understand you are being realistic but it just all sounds too defeatist to me.
Where are the revolutionaries fighting the NY SAFE Act, CA AWB, CO Mag and Private Sale ban, MA AWB, CT AWB, NJ AWB, 1938 FFL Law, etc?
I don't mean to be a defeatist....it's just that we let them win so long ago and there is no going back. Your most likely revolution is to come from the militant left, and if you look at the current state of BLM, they may have started it already.
A small minority would support a revolution (be it towards the left or right) and the majority would oppose it. Couple that with the FACT that nearly every American man is a coward (including us-prove me wrong, our forefathers would have had a second revolution YEARS ago, not just due to todays topics) and you will never see a second American revolution. It's a silly fantasy anymore.
I agree. If I remember correctly a large percentage of the population did not support the first American Revolution. The simple fact is the majority do not want to rock the boat.
#Crickets
Lol #Cricketslivesmattertoo
Where are the revolutionaries fighting the NY SAFE Act, CA AWB, CO Mag and Private Sale ban, MA AWB, CT AWB, NJ AWB, 1938 FFL Law, etc?
I don't mean to be a defeatist....it's just that we let them win so long ago and there is no going back. Your most likely revolution is to come from the militant left, and if you look at the current state of BLM, they may have started it already.
QFT. Not to mention years of conditioning the population to thinking your average 2A supportive white male is the Boogyman, and outlashing by any armed white male anywhere will have them demonizing that dude as if he were Satan himself. The only thing they are discounting is at some point a few men will decide they are quite fine being called Satan and things wil get ugly.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-23-16, 11:29
QFT. Not to mention years of conditioning the population to thinking your average 2A supportive white male is the Boogyman, and outlashing by any armed white male anywhere will have them demonizing that dude as if he were Satan himself. The only thing they are discounting is at some point a few men will decide they are quite fine being called Satan and things wil get ugly.
Yup. The media, both the right and left wing versions, will turn any armed uprising by the right into a domestic terror attack (see Bundy, BLM, etc) and will have 99% of the population turned agains the uprising in minutes.
I brought up a lot of infringements upon the second ammendment, but let's not forget the infringements upon the entire constitution. From spying on citizens without warrants, to out of control tax rates, to political monarchies, etc. Our fathers and grandfathers lost the liberty that our forefathers secured, we have simply stood by and aided the enemy by doing nothing about it.
Emailing your congressman is not a remedy, he's a part of the problem too!
Anymore, I own guns to protect my family, my self, and for work. The tree of liberty withered, died, and was used for firewood by big government.
Well, then I guess it's all over. Might as well hand everything over now. :-(
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-23-16, 12:16
Well, then I guess it's all over. Might as well hand everything over now. :-(
Would you care to give us your assessment of our current state of affairs then (without the sarcasm)?
Would you care to give us your assessment of our current state of affairs then (without the sarcasm)?
I honestly don't know how any of this would go down. That is why I defer to those with more experience than myself. It's just sad reading what is up here.
Mauser KAR98K
07-23-16, 12:27
It will be Yugoslavia on a grand scale.
Would you care to give us your assessment of our current state of affairs then (without the sarcasm)?
Balls? A spine not made of pasta? A refusal to submit?
OH58 has it most likely correct.......a vast majority will lay low and go underground. Rooting them out would be problematic and create more issues than just leaving them alone and touting publicly how successful your ban (or whatever) is.
I will also point out that this MSM demonizing machine you guys keep referring to has, of late, really pissed a lot of people off to where they aren't buying it anymore. Look at the backlash against the BLM bullshit; many people aren't afraid anymore of being called a "racist". "Fvck 'em" is a growing attitude. The MSM has created it's own counter-PC movement by ramming it down our throats just a little too hard. Let's see if Trump wins in November. That will be a telltale sign that people are fed up if he does.
Oh, just for the record: 1/3 of the population supported the Crown. 1/3 were ambivalent. 1/3 were "rebels" (what we now call "Patriots").
So long as the central authority can reliably deliver food, water, shelter and medical support, without making the under thumb population believe they could be kristallnacht'd at any moment, no revolution is happening. You make people feel like their families will freeze, starve, die of ravaging disease or disappear? There will be revolt.
So long as the central authority can reliably deliver food, water, shelter and medical support, without making the under thumb population believe they could be kristallnacht'd at any moment, no revolution is happening. You make people feel like their families will freeze, starve, die of ravaging disease or disappear? There will be revolt.
Truth right there. However, it only takes a very small fee to precipitate change. Most people are sheep and will go along with the strong horse (to paraphrase Bin Laden of all people).
This is a double edged sword. It means that the majority would gladly follow Hitlery to the depths of hell, but they would also follow someone else (cough, Trump, cough) back to being a sovereign and free nation
Oh, no doubt at first guys will come out to play with their 3 grand rifles and PCs.
But go ahead and rewatch the part where Shughart and Gordon try to fend off the swarm. If you knew nothing about it, you'd think for a second they would make it.
But no.
I don't know about you, but I couldn't call up an instant family reunion or swarm, but these sons of bitches can, will, and have.
Personally seen it, BTDT. Someone doesn't like someone going to jail or whatever and they are already on the phone saying "Oh Guuurl you gots to get down here!"
It's one of those things.
There is one aegment of the population that if the power goes out; they are all "Gee. Powers out. That sucks. Oh well, I have glow sticks, candles, and lanterns. I shall read peacefully until the power comes back on."
Then there is another part ofthe population that loses their shit. They get in fights, they break in other people's houses, they all 911 demanding the power be turned on NOW, etc. They can't fathom that over 100 years ago people had no electricity and just dealt with it. I'm talking for several hours, not even several weeks.
Some people have a pack mentality. A lot of "random" robberies are usually 4 on 1. Think about that next time you tote a 5 shot J frame or a 7 shot Commander.
And most decent people are too nice, initially, to get hard and brutal really fast.
Like to dissuade the hordes you would literally have to put heads on stakes, crucify people or leave them hanging from a tree. Some serious Col Kurtz mess.
Otherwise "you soft and we just take yo' shit"
Oh, no doubt at first guys will come out to play with their 3 grand rifles and PCs.
But go ahead and rewatch the part where Shughart and Gordon try to fend off the swarm. If you knew nothing about it, you'd think for a second they would make it.
But no.
I don't know about you, but I couldn't call up an instant family reunion or swarm, but these sons of bitches can, will, and have.
Personally seen it, BTDT. Someone doesn't like someone going to jail or whatever and they are already on the phone saying "Oh Guuurl you gots to get down here!"
It's one of those things.
There is one aegment of the population that if the power goes out; they are all "Gee. Powers out. That sucks. Oh well, I have glow sticks, candles, and lanterns. I shall read peacefully until the power comes back on."
Then there is another part ofthe population that loses their shit. They get in fights, they break in other people's houses, they all 911 demanding the power be turned on NOW, etc. They can't fathom that over 100 years ago people had no electricity and just dealt with it. I'm talking for several hours, not even several weeks.
Some people have a pack mentality. A lot of "random" robberies are usually 4 on 1. Think about that next time you tote a 5 shot J frame or a 7 shot Commander.
And most decent people are too nice, initially, to get hard and brutal really fast.
Like to dissuade the hordes you would literally have to put heads on stakes, crucify people or leave them hanging from a tree. Some serious Col Kurtz mess.
Otherwise "you soft and we just take yo' shit"
Gee thanks......so you are saying that I am not decent folk? ;)
Shughart and Gordon did get messed up real bad, it would have also been a completely different story if they could have maneuvered as apposed to being static......but when there were a few more like 10 or so good guys together thing went real bad for the other side real quick. That would have made That is just how it would have to be. The days of LEOs going out by themselves or with one guy would be out the door. Same with anyone else that is going to "play" the game.
Yeah....well...
My deal is that at some point you get encircled. I've seen a flash "family reunion" with literally 100 random people show up. They always bring babies and children to use as cover at 0300. They boldly say "you can't put us all in jail" and they are right.
They can shut down interstates and choke wal marts at the drop of a hat.
And no matter what you do the worldstar iphone footage won't show it all.
I'm just saying some people have a pack/horde mentality. Look at tge LA riots. The Koreans were smart. They had overwatch and organization.
They fended off looters. When peace was restored, the cops came knocking on their door and not the looters'.
Ideally you'd want armor if it went TU and beltfeds. Hell...sometimes I look for decommissioned Bank trucks for sale, partially as a "wouldn't that be something to have" and partially "yeah that wouldn't be a bad idea"
Yeah....well...
My deal is that at some point you get encircled. I've seen a flash "family reunion" with literally 100 random people show up. They always bring babies and children to use as cover at 0300. They boldly say "you can't put us all in jail" and they are right.
They can shut down interstates and choke wal marts at the drop of a hat.
And no matter what you do the worldstar iphone footage won't show it all.
I'm just saying some people have a pack/horde mentality. Look at tge LA riots. The Koreans were smart. They had overwatch and organization.
They fended off looters. When peace was restored, the cops came knocking on their door and not the looters'.
Ideally you'd want armor if it went TU and beltfeds. Hell...sometimes I look for decommissioned Bank trucks for sale, partially as a "wouldn't that be something to have" and partially "yeah that wouldn't be a bad idea"
And I agree with everything you just said. Especially the bank car thing... I have been looking also. :)
I would be curious to see how their attitudes would change if everything went south and no one cared about what they thought. By this I mean if they brought out the kids at 0300 and they all get shot or they blocked the road and someone ran them over with a bank truck..... :jester:
ColtSeavers
07-23-16, 14:43
For me, the problem is the desire to unleash my internal demons versus my desire to keep my family, squared.
I have no issue with putting heads on pikes around my property or even neighborhood, as long as it keeps my family safe and together. My wife would be at odds with herself. Cold hard instinct versus motherly love. How do we teach our children about what we are doing?
What happens if we have to expand? Do we have the right to do that? Afterall, we did everything in our power to insure we were at least left the hell alone.
Defending yourself, your loved ones, your community is rather easy to sell. Attacking others, others' loved ones and communities is a tougher sell.
Ultimately, personally, with a family in tow, I will be as neutral as possible. I have no desire to truly openly take the lives of fellow Americans, just as I had no desire to truly openly take the lives of Iraqis, so long as they do not give me immediate reason to.
If this makes me a coward, a sympathizer, a true patriot or left out of the history books all together, or any number of other things, I don't care, so long as my family is safe, together, we can still look each other in the eye and I can look at myself in the mirror without wavering.
I too am curious.
Screw an RV, I want a bank truck that plays the Hulk Hogan "Real American" song on a loud speaker.
Whatcha gonna do, brother, when this Brinks truck runs wild on yooooooouuuu?
WOOOO!
Outlander Systems
07-23-16, 14:46
@Firefly
Bring your patrol car and $500 up to moonshine country and I'll retrofit it with one of these:
http://www.platinumdirectfinance.com.au/wp-content/uploads/flame-thrower-car-2.jpg
Outlander..... That is awesome!!!!!
Oh, no doubt at first guys will come out to play with their 3 grand rifles and PCs.
But go ahead and rewatch the part where Shughart and Gordon try to fend off the swarm. If you knew nothing about it, you'd think for a second they would make it.
But no.
I don't know about you, but I couldn't call up an instant family reunion or swarm, but these sons of bitches can, will, and have.
Personally seen it, BTDT. Someone doesn't like someone going to jail or whatever and they are already on the phone saying "Oh Guuurl you gots to get down here!"
It's one of those things.
There is one aegment of the population that if the power goes out; they are all "Gee. Powers out. That sucks. Oh well, I have glow sticks, candles, and lanterns. I shall read peacefully until the power comes back on."
Then there is another part ofthe population that loses their shit. They get in fights, they break in other people's houses, they all 911 demanding the power be turned on NOW, etc. They can't fathom that over 100 years ago people had no electricity and just dealt with it. I'm talking for several hours, not even several weeks.
Some people have a pack mentality. A lot of "random" robberies are usually 4 on 1. Think about that next time you tote a 5 shot J frame or a 7 shot Commander.
And most decent people are too nice, initially, to get hard and brutal really fast.
Like to dissuade the hordes you would literally have to put heads on stakes, crucify people or leave them hanging from a tree. Some serious Col Kurtz mess.
Otherwise "you soft and we just take yo' shit"
Dude, other than working in the city I live out in the sticks. "They" ain't comin' out here, and if they do, well.......will they still be putting pictures on milk cartons if the S is HTF?
Anyone who would seek their place in an urban area under those circumstances is an idiot. If you'll notice Blackhawk Down took place in a city where the skinnies were all around, like kicking an anthill. Not so much like that out here!
screw a patrol car. I want that on my pov
Outlander Systems
07-23-16, 14:49
I call it the Tallulah Tapdancer.
Outlander..... That is awesome!!!!!
Dude, other than working in the city I live out in the sticks. "They" ain't comin' out here, and if they do, well.......will they still be putting pictures on milk cartons if the S is HTF?
Anyone who would seek their place in an urban area under those circumstances is an idiot. If you'll notice Blackhawk Down took place in a city where the skinnies were all around, like kicking an anthill. Not so much like that out here!
Well yeah but I still say heads on stakes and crucifixions just to be sure
And I agree with everything you just said. Especially the bank car thing... I have been looking also. :)
I would be curious to see how their attitudes would change if everything went south and no one cared about what they thought. By this I mean if they brought out the kids at 0300 and they all get shot or they blocked the road and someone ran them over with a bank truck..... :jester:
Exactly. We are assuming restraint in a situation where there is none, rules in a situation where none exist. No, their little antics would exact a stiff price.
Well yeah but I still say heads on stakes and crucifixions just to be sure
I'm there bro! Whatever it would take. I don't have kids to look to me as a moral compass. Just sayin'......:rolleyes:
Outlander Systems
07-23-16, 14:54
Should Euro decide he wants one:
http://youtu.be/aLhWzMOccTg
My Moral Compass points to Victory! :dirol:
Until it happens, you really don't know how you will react but I really feel that I would not have a problem reverting to complete barbarism in order to keep my wife and family safe.
Should Euro decide he wants one:
That is EPIC!
That would also work very well for those people that keep trying to sell me oranges on the side of the road....... :jester:
Until it happens, you really don't know how you will react but I really feel that I would not have a problem reverting to complete barbarism in order to keep my wife and family safe.
You would be like the short spetsnaz dude from Red Dawn within 24 hours and you know it. Mustache, aviators, and all.
I think that is your second Red Dawn reference in just two days...... Great, now I have to get my Wolverines! on. :)
Outlander Systems
07-23-16, 15:02
Roger that!
Here, especially in downtown Atlanta, we have the "street side window-washing hustlers."
That is EPIC!
That would also work very well for those people that keep trying to sell me oranges on the side of the road....... :jester:
Roger that!
Here, especially in downtown Atlanta, we have the "street side window-washing hustlers."
I could tell of one trick I use but it wouldn't be board appropriate.
But....
When Obama first got in I printed out some Obama dollars and crinkled them to give them the money appearance. I'd just toss it out the window and reveled in the cursing
MountainRaven
07-23-16, 15:15
You would be like the short spetsnaz dude from Red Dawn within 24 hours and you know it. Mustache, aviators, and all.
Probably more like the KGB guy in the tall ushanka.
"Our enemies had a saying, 'Win their hearts and minds.'"
"And they lost, Ernesto."
:p
You would be like the short spetsnaz dude from Red Dawn within 24 hours and you know it. Mustache, aviators, and all.
I have the aviators. No mustache tho. I do rock a nice beard in the winter. I still have some Soviet army surplus. I might be able to put together the uniform lol
I have the aviators. No mustache tho. I do rock a nice beard in the winter. I still have some Soviet army surplus. I might be able to put together the uniform lol
All you need is the funky Swedish SMG and you're all set :)
Where are the revolutionaries fighting the NY SAFE Act, CA AWB, CO Mag and Private Sale ban, MA AWB, CT AWB, NJ AWB, 1938 FFL Law, etc?
I don't mean to be a defeatist....it's just that we let them win so long ago and there is no going back. Your most likely revolution is to come from the militant left, and if you look at the current state of BLM, they may have started it already.
This is actually part of the reason why I posted the other thread about the NBPP calling for their own country. These two threads go well together actually... :)
The logical conclusion then being, A) when do I get mine so we can stop dealing with the bullshit, and B) how many other groups would jump on the bandwagon? I assume we'd at least see a showing from the Aztlan crowd...
But part of my point was, this may have already started, but not from the side I assume most here would favor. Sadly many are all so sure "we" have all the guns and "we" are the only ones to whom revolution/secession/balkanization has ever occurred.
Reminds me of a scene from iRobot;
Dr. Alfred Lanning: The Three Laws will lead to only one logical outcome.
Detective Del Spooner: What? What outcome?
Dr. Alfred Lanning: Revolution.
Detective Del Spooner: Whose revolution?
Dr. Alfred Lanning: *That*, Detective, is the right question.
Anyway, just one of those many things of small consequence that starts clanging louder and louder in your head as things progress.
So long as the central authority can reliably deliver food, water, shelter and medical support, without making the under thumb population believe they could be kristallnacht'd at any moment, no revolution is happening. You make people feel like their families will freeze, starve, die of ravaging disease or disappear? There will be revolt.
This is generally true. Life is just *to* good for most folks that don;t have to deal *personally* with "the bullshit" on a daily or even weekly basis.
Unless you start having a situation where this happens;
.....I will also point out that this MSM demonizing machine you guys keep referring to has, of late, really pissed a lot of people off to where they aren't buying it anymore. Look at the backlash against the BLM bullshit; many people aren't afraid anymore of being called a "racist". "Fvck 'em" is a growing attitude. The MSM has created it's own counter-PC movement by ramming it down our throats just a little too hard.....
And you now start to have a situation where people start to feel the way they want to live is being threatened.
Look at the situation in [pick a euro country] being overrun with refugees. The nice folk all fans of the supposed benefits of "multiculturalism" and "diversity" change their tune real fast when "the bullshit" starts in their country or neighborhood. Or...to them.
And then you get;
Exactly. We are assuming restraint in a situation where there is none, rules in a situation where none exist. No, their little antics would exact a stiff price.
Once people have had enough, and longer give a shit about being the next satan on the 6 o'clock, it is *on*, and you now have the basis for potentially successful revolution.
Which, going back to the top here, is why it will be important to keep an eye on future activities from the other side. They've already proven they're ok with assaulting and killing people on national tv, and as we've seen the outcry is all about the object not the cause.
IMHO, depending on the next few months/year it'll fizzle, or we all better start thinking real hard about what the counter offer is going to be.
Or get ready to play Mogadishu: 'Merica Edition.
But going back to the original topic here, potential for American revolution being successful.
Yeah, it's totally possible. It just depends on *how* it's done, and what the parameters of victory are to be.
It's also going to involve the participants coming to terms with some potentially unpleasant truths regarding the target deck, ROE, demographics, etc, etc..
For example.... you're never going to get *all* of America back. It just cannot be done, at least not with disparity of forces at play, and not in one lifetime. So... which part would you like?
It also depends on how fast the American gov. would be willing to go full metal Fallujah on American soil....
Remember, they would no longer be fighting[with implied consent] "oppressed peebles fightin' for equality" they'd be fighting[with much media wailing] "heavily armed y'allquaeda right wing genocidal extremists ermagherd!1!1!!"
Do you end up fighting a nationalized federal police force, perhaps with some "enhancements", or the 1st marine division?
Do you end up in jail, or Gitmo if they catch you?
Realizing that unless you want to start "Merica 2.0 right back where we left off with all the bickering and mindless bullshit, how do you get rid of the portion of the population that is incompatible with the new country's views? Do you even allow *any* to stay, and if so what percentage would be acceptable, realizing that their continued influence will likely fast-track the new country back to what that you just fought over...
This is where that part about "which portion of the country to pick" becomes very important, as not only can you not take the whole pie away from the gov, you have to leave a safety valve for everyone not wanted to leave through.
If you're the Spartans at Thermopylae, and you managed to drive the Persians back to their ships, best let them sail off, lest in their desperation to survive you face a rally from their crushing numbers....
At the same time, it has to be understood that there will be no tolerance for the antics of those opposed to the direction or formation of the new country.
Let's be honest- in order to convince the unwanted to get the hell out, you're going to have to shoot, stab, burn, and blow shit up until they get the message.
And sometimes it's going to involve nothing as dignified as a couple bullets to the face....
When the MSM is screaming about the genocidal extremists slaying everyone they don't like, and... at some point it's likely going to seem like exactly that... how do you counter their propaganda, and get people to join the fight, and live in the new country you're going to promise will be better than the last, and have them believe it?
I could go on for another page here, but... think about it all the way through. I think under the right "**** it, we're done here" situation it's totally doable, maybe even winnable.... maybe. But most folk don't consider *all* the angles. You have no idea how damn tired I am of all the "1775/ III%/ "from my dead hands"/"killer bee treestand sniper" bollocks.
Oh, no doubt at first guys will come out to play with their 3 grand rifles and PCs....
Silly rabbit;
HKs and FNs are what you scare the media with.
Molotovs and Colts are what you scare your enemies with.
PCs help you look like you actually know what you're doing on either occasion.
;)
I really feel that I would not have a problem reverting to complete barbarism .
You are only like 2 shots removed anyway. Just look at Golden Gates on Friday/Saturday
[emoji482]
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-23-16, 22:27
Balls? A spine not made of pasta? A refusal to submit?
OH58 has it most likely correct.......a vast majority will lay low and go underground. Rooting them out would be problematic and create more issues than just leaving them alone and touting publicly how successful your ban (or whatever) is.
I will also point out that this MSM demonizing machine you guys keep referring to has, of late, really pissed a lot of people off to where they aren't buying it anymore. Look at the backlash against the BLM bullshit; many people aren't afraid anymore of being called a "racist". "Fvck 'em" is a growing attitude. The MSM has created it's own counter-PC movement by ramming it down our throats just a little too hard. Let's see if Trump wins in November. That will be a telltale sign that people are fed up if he does.
Oh, just for the record: 1/3 of the population supported the Crown. 1/3 were ambivalent. 1/3 were "rebels" (what we now call "Patriots").
Seriously, no offense: Where are all the guys with balls refreshing the tree of liberty? Isn't it a bit overdue?
Seriously, no offense: Where are all the guys with balls refreshing the tree of liberty? Isn't it a bit overdue?
Speaking only for myself. I'll fight when they come for me, if they come. Almost from the beginning we have not enjoyed all the rights we were born with. So really not much sense in tilting that windmill unless you are rich or powerful, and if you are rich and powerful an exemption has likely been made for you so it would take a very principled individual who was already rich, powerful and for the most part "exempt" to fight the power.
That leaves those with "nothing to lose" and they get shot and killed all the time, even in cases where they are genuinely standing up for their rights, they are typically seen as the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" crowd.
Our country has never been perfect. We began talking about "All men are created equal..." but at the same time we seemed to consider slaves "property" rather than "men." After all, we bought them fair and square. And if ever there was a time to "fight tyranny" my god it was the 1930's with our fascination with eugenics where people could be declared indigent and forcibly sterilized, where we had more socialism rammed down our throats than at any other time in history, when the government actually implemented it's own ponzi scheme called social security and forced everyone to participate. When organized crime had filled the void cause by prohibition and the depression was destroying the country.
So if we weren't going to do any shooting in the 1930s, don't expect anything today. Ironically the only time people "took up arms" recently was radical, terrorist groups in the 1960s looking to overthrow the US government, but I don't think they had a better vision for this country in mind. Probably a good thing they weren't terribly successful. But we still have holdovers from that era, many of them are currently in office and one of them wants to be President.
Moose-Knuckle
07-24-16, 05:18
Sorry, I just don't share the omnipotent view of the feds that you do. "Crushed", "smoked"? You give too much credit for such a widespread problem; we're not talking the compound in Waco or a hut on Ruby Ridge. Also, they have to sleep somewhere, and so do their families. Never underestimate the sheer brutality of vengeance-driven violence, especially when one has been irrevocably wronged in their own eyes. You didn't turn in X, so now you're a felon and we will either imprison or kill you. For some reason it doesn't seem to me that will sit well with a significant [enough] portion of people in this country to just acquiesce and roll over. Just sayin'.
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956
Moose-Knuckle
07-24-16, 05:41
With all the corrupt bs we have seen in the past 20-30 years (just look at Billary), if you still think there are not major domestic and international power players pushing us in the direction we are headed there is no help for you. I've said it before, it sickens me to hear our leaders talk about how men in caves 10,000 miles away are the major threat to our freedom. Yeah, I know they are a threat. Any fool knows that. Ultimately, the absolute biggest threat to Liberty and the level of happiness each American regardless of color (or Europeans in Europe for that matter) experiences each and every day is not in a cave in Afghanistan. It is was a Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago who liked bombing police and grew to be a major political influence, it was a Mayor of NY who bankrolls a war against the constitution, it thrived in the halls of the Frankfurt School, it broke the Bank of England....and on and on. That is the faces of those who seek to torch your freedoms. Yes, fundamental Islam is bad, BLM is proving to be bad...on and on; but who bankrolls them. Who pushes and shames European cultures into opening their borders to those who will eventually be their executioners?
Great post and way over most heads sadly. IMHO the Rothschild banking cabal have been the wizard behind the curtain dating since before the The Napoleonic Wars.
https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8758/28478797566_c95dfd1a23_z.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
07-24-16, 05:53
Until it happens, you really don't know how you will react . . .
Mental prep is huge part of this.
If you don't know what you'll do when the moment of truth presents itself then it's a pretty good chance it won't be the right thing.
Seriously, no offense: Where are all the guys with balls refreshing the tree of liberty? Isn't it a bit overdue?
To quote SteyrAUG: "Speaking only for myself. I'll fight when they come for me, if they come."
No one wants to be the first one out the door. However, enough of the above occurs and a consensus builds, born of individual indignation but slowly starts to recognize a growing number of people seeing it the same way. In other words once enough people resist because they're coming for them personally, they look around and see that they are not the only ones and say "Hey, you too huh?"
That's SUCH a wet dream. Wont be no "civilians" in THAT bunch..itll be kill on site. I believe you are 100% right they'll try, and I think Im fairly right they wont last long-at all.
Lol...
That line in the movie 'Tombstone' comes to mind...
"I see a red sash and I kill the man wearing it!"
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Speaking only for myself. I'll fight when they come for me, if they come. Almost from the beginning we have not enjoyed all the rights we were born with. So really not much sense in tilting that windmill unless you are rich or powerful, and if you are rich and powerful an exemption has likely been made for you so it would take a very principled individual who was already rich, powerful and for the most part "exempt" to fight the power.
That leaves those with "nothing to lose" and they get shot and killed all the time, even in cases where they are genuinely standing up for their rights, they are typically seen as the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" crowd.
Our country has never been perfect. We began talking about "All men are created equal..." but at the same time we seemed to consider slaves "property" rather than "men." After all, we bought them fair and square. And if ever there was a time to "fight tyranny" my god it was the 1930's with our fascination with eugenics where people could be declared indigent and forcibly sterilized, where we had more socialism rammed down our throats than at any other time in history, when the government actually implemented it's own ponzi scheme called social security and forced everyone to participate. When organized crime had filled the void cause by prohibition and the depression was destroying the country.
So if we weren't going to do any shooting in the 1930s, don't expect anything today. Ironically the only time people "took up arms" recently was radical, terrorist groups in the 1960s looking to overthrow the US government, but I don't think they had a better vision for this country in mind. Probably a good thing they weren't terribly successful. But we still have holdovers from that era, many of them are currently in office and one of them wants to be President.
Powerful statement. All I can add is that "Revolution" in the modern age can take the form of direct confrontation in an armed resistance, to quiet defiance under the radar. I think all such activities will be part of any future Revolution.
Honestly, before there is a second "revolution" there will be a breakdown, and that will be the "revolution". Sides will square off and decide that going their own separate ways is desirable to a killing spree. Sure, a few bloody contacts may take place but it will only hasten the need to separate, not turn into a larger conflagration (at least one would hope).
I also hesitate to use the word "revolution". "Civil war" is more appropriate.
ramairthree
07-24-16, 11:27
Mental prep is huge part of this.
If you don't know what you'll do when the moment of truth presents itself then it's a pretty good chance it won't be the right thing.
I don't know.
Hard to be 100% sure.
Do I sell my American Dream country property,
Go live off the grid,
Hitting the gym to Filter, Zombie, NIN, and other angry white man music
Doing daily drills on my personal range waiting to shoot some ****ers in the face when they come for me,
Keep going as I am right now, working for big bucks as much longer as I can and doing what I want,
Hoping more taxes, less rights, and no guns are not about to be coming around the corner,
Or say to hell with it,
Go Galt,
Work just enough to pay the bills, quietly turn in my guns when the time comes,
Kick up my feet over looking my million dollar country estate,
Turn on some Walsh world of illusion or buffet,
Drink lots of cold icy sweet alcolic beverages and start smoking weed.
Choice seems pretty easy for a young single guy,
Or an older guy with no family to support,
With only his life to get worse.
Harder for a guy with kids going to college, grandkids coming, and lots of other people's lives to make worse.
Plenty of people here have made the choice to keep things safe and easy and financially better off,
Instead of heading to RIP, SFAS, BUDS, etc. and getting their combat on while they had the chance.
plenty of people will make the choice to keep on keeping on and turn their stuff in when the time comes like they have in NY, CA, etc.
Most people cannot see how bad it will be when full on crap hits the fan like the BLM shootings, more Muslim events, and more Waco/RR stuff ramps up,
The government takes more of what you earn, actively goes about making your neighborhood and schools worse, and you will be able to do absolutely nothing about it.
Most people cannot see how bad it will be when full on crap hits the fan like the BLM shootings, more Muslim events, and more Waco/RR stuff ramps up,
The government takes more of what you earn, actively goes about making your neighborhood and schools worse, and you will be able to do absolutely nothing about it.
Kinda helps guide one on that decision you mention, doesn't it?
All the violence is no more than are killed on any 3 day holiday .Too much on TV ,then baseball, football and the X factor to have a revolution.Praise Allah for the gullible Americans..
Here's my deal:
All I have, I'm keeping.
I'm not going to override anyone else's rights, not worth it to me.
I think if people left everyone alone, it'd all be gucci.
But they can't even keep illegal alien gangs in check nor these street creeps.
I ain't skeered.
And if someone JDAMs my big ass then congratulations, you spent a CEO's salary on a cheap bastard.
Way to go, you.
Moose-Knuckle
07-25-16, 03:28
I don't know.
Hard to be 100% sure.
I was speaking about mental preparation in regards to mindset if and when it all goes pear shaped and normal 9-5 types find themselves in Mad Max's wasteland all of sudden. Will they do what it takes to keep their loved ones safe, à la Rick Grimes, etc.
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