View Full Version : 20" A4's ?'s Colt VS FN vs BCM, others
Looking to put a 20" A4 like I toted on deployments to the stable. My research suggests the Colt and FN are pretty similar except the FN comes with a KAC rail and matech versus Colt having the carry handle. The MSRP on the Colt is easier to swallow, considering a KAC RAS can be found for under $200. Am I missing anything.The rifle I was issued was an FN , but certainly had my share of Colt in my 25 year career as well Help me decide!
Looking to put a 20" A4 like I toted on deployments to the stable. My research suggests the Colt and FN are pretty similar except the FN comes with a KAC rail and matech versus Colt having the carry handle. The MSRP on the Colt is easier to swallow, considering a KAC RAS can be found for under $200. Am I missing anything.The rifle I was issued was an FN , but certainly had my share of Colt in my 25 year career as well Help me decide!
Colt AR15A4+KAC M5 RAS is the route I'd go.
In a strange twist since carbines are so much more desireable though the 6920 and AR15A4 share an MSRP (999) BUT because much fewer AR15A4s are made it seems they are always listed well over vs 6920s being well under.
I get the 20" bug every now and then as well but then I think "what's the point" since it still won't have a massively increased effective range so 20" for me is the realm of .308 ARs. Plus, the only time I ever handled a musket was in basic training as even way back in '01 when I got to the 82nd M4s had been standard issue for quite some time.
Though a Colt M16A4 and M4 clone would be cool to have in the collection, I can't deny. The latter would need a tax stamp though.
Eurodriver
07-25-16, 09:18
I have a neat A4.
I used a Colt upper on a BCM barrel (swapped the upper out to get rid of the laser marking) and a PSA OIF lower.
Doing it over I would have bought a Colt. Much simpler.
My theory regarding the newFN or Colt 20" A4 is I can not only have a rifle similar to my deployment rifle, but also use it for CMP service rifle matches ( not optimal I know but I am not really competitive any more) and have the option of optics down the road. When I look at the size and weight difference between the 16 and 20 it really doesn't make that much difference
Colt uses 7075 aluminum for their rifle receiver extensions. FN carbine and rifle receiver extensions are unknown and BCM rifle receiver extensions are also unknown.
So, Colt wins here.
Colt uses 7075 aluminum for their rifle receiver extensions. FN is unknown but likely uses 6061 and BCM uses 6061.
So, Colt wins here.
I have an FN 15 carbine and the manual states 4140 barrel steel as well. I know that it is just a blanket manual for many models and it may even vary so no telling what the "Military Collector series" barrel steel is but it at least puts it in doubt. Everything else seems pretty chart-tastic though: taper pins at the FSB, nice M4 ramps, auto carrier, MPI etched into bolt, badass staking on key, so-so staking on castle nut, "F" FSB, T marked, upper, 1:7, etc. Having a price point several hundred dollars over an equivalent Colt makes no sense for it though unless you value "fit and finish" over barrel steel standards and are willing to pay a hell of a premium for it. Only the higher end FNs use the hammer forged barrels too it seems.
I don't know nearly as much about testing aluminum as I do steel--besides destructive testing how do you even check something to see if it is 7075 vs 6061?
I have seen the "6 position=6061" argument before but wonder if there is more to it.
But, the rifle being discussed here would be using the rifle RE anyway.
BCM uses 7075 for their carbine buffer tube (proof in link below). Not sure about their rifle length buffer tube, though.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Milspec-Receiver-Extension-Buffer-Tube-p/bcm-milspec-re.htm
Colt uses 7075 aluminum for their rifle receiver extensions. FN is unknown but likely uses 6061 and BCM uses 6061.
So, Colt wins here.
All of the Mil-Spec 7075 RIFLE receiver extensions that I'm aware of have a dry film lube applied to the outside of the tube. All of the commercial 6061 RIFLE receiver extensions that I have seen have no dry film lube applied.
Other than that I don't know if there is any other way to tell the difference between the two.
Colt AR15A4+KAC M5 RAS is the route I'd go.
In a strange twist since carbines are so much more desireable though the 6920 and AR15A4 share an MSRP (999) BUT because much fewer AR15A4s are made it seems they are always listed well over vs 6920s being well under.
That bugs the hell out of me as well. The only places I've seen an AR15A4 for sale all have them marked up $300 or more above MSRP. Yet you can buy discounted 6920s all the time (except during a panic). I'd really like to get a 20" M16A2 clone but it seems nobody makes those anymore, at least not the quality brands.
BCM uses 7075 for their carbine buffer tube (proof in link below). Not sure about their rifle length buffer tube, though.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Milspec-Receiver-Extension-Buffer-Tube-p/bcm-milspec-re.htm
I am aware of BCM carbine REs being made of 7075 but the description for their rifle REs doesn't say what they are made of.
This not knowing is enough for me to steer clear of BCM rifle REs until I know for sure what they are made of.
This not knowing is enough for me to steer clear of BCM rifle REs until I know for sure what they are made of.
If you don't know, why did you say definitively that they use 6061?
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If you don't know, why did you say definitively that they use 6061?
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Oops... I guess I should have said it's unknown what they are made of, just like the FN receiver extensions.
That bugs the hell out of me as well. The only places I've seen an AR15A4 for sale all have them marked up $300 or more above MSRP. Yet you can buy discounted 6920s all the time (except during a panic). I'd really like to get a 20" M16A2 clone but it seems nobody makes those anymore, at least not the quality brands.
There's 6920 uppers available at really decent prices right now, I'm tempted to just buy one of those and switch the barrel out for a 20"
I was in the same position, except I had my A4 in basic training, not Iraq(M4). I went with the BCM from G&R. I have a 6920 that I put a 14.5 SOCOM on for the deployment tribute, but if I were to do it again I'd go BCM for both. The fit and finish is superior(to my eyes) and you get a cooler grip and trigger guard. And stickers.
I also had Grant kiss the box with lipstick and sign it, but I have yet to see any value increase because of it.
I bought my Colt AR15A4 from GT Distributors for $899 back in June. I added a KAC M5 RAS rail, a Matech rear sight, a Geissele SSA-E trigger, a Specialized Armament green extractor spring, and a Colt A1 stock with an aluminum trap door. I'm very happy with my choice and I wouldn't change a thing if I had to do it over again.
You're worried about nothing.
I am aware of BCM carbine REs being made of 7075 but the description for their rifle REs doesn't say what they are made of.
This not knowing is enough for me to steer clear of BCM rifle REs until I know for sure what they are made of.
You're worried about nothing.
Hey man haven't you heard? REs made of 6061 instead of 7075 have a 1/100 chance of spontaneous combustion every time you pull the trigger.
6061 rifle REs ring or 'clink' at a different pitch than a 7075.
Same way you can tell a 6061 vs 7075 charging handle. The more dense 7075 handles have a lower pitched sound when you tink them against a vise or crescent wrench.
Its the easy way to check if the specification is undisclosed.
I don't have any 6061 carbine REs to compare, but I would imagine it would work the same way as charging handles or rifle REs.
Also, to my experience, it is difficult to get 6061 rifle REs to torque, the aluminum is soft enough to start to deform at the end (where the wrench makes contact) right about the same time enough torque is achieved.
The Resistance
07-26-16, 00:09
Looking to put a 20" A4 like I toted on deployments to the stable. My research suggests the Colt and FN are pretty similar except the FN comes with a KAC rail and matech versus Colt having the carry handle. The MSRP on the Colt is easier to swallow, considering a KAC RAS can be found for under $200. Am I missing anything.The rifle I was issued was an FN , but certainly had my share of Colt in my 25 year career as well Help me decide!
Go with the Colt, you already know it. Nothing wrong with FN and all the other quality rifles, but you still get a Colt. Everyone else tries to be MIL-SPEC like Colt, but they aren't (except the new issued FN M4's). Doesn't make them bad or inferior. But Colt M4's ain't broke, don't need to be fixed and are not in search of an answer for a question they are trying to ask like what kind of alchemy and wizardry should I use to attach a light to my rifle?
I am not against M-LOK or Keymod or whatever else, but shit doesn't fall of any of my rifles now and never has. I've broke and wore shit out, but I have never had anything fall off any rifle.
Every time someone asks "should I get the Colt M4 6920/6940 or the xxxx rifle they should just get the Colt and be done with it". For the sake of the sweet baby Jesus don't ask what kind of rail, rail cover you should get or what type of boot laces you need in the tier one whiz bang boots you need while shooting or this thread will never end.
Get the Colt, shoot it all you can afford, only add the stuff you really need to it and please Dear God don't take any pictures of it all shiny and pretty and post them in the pretty princess picture thread. Shoot the piss out of it. Let it get some scuffs, scratches and then maybe take some pictures so someone can say the Colt finish sucks.
There are so many good rifles at decent prices with decent rails and whiz bang parts there is no reason to argue over them.
I want a coalition to stop the pretty princess pictures threads. It's like taking picture of Jeeps and trucks sitting in driveways with eight coats of wax and clean under carriages that never leave the street.
Just before retiring about six weeks ago I pulled the oldest, dirtiest, ugliest Colt M16A1 I could find out of the patrol rifle armory, took it to the range, squirted a bunch of CLP on the BCG closed her up and hammered the piss out of that gun all day. Crappy sights, old as piss, no optics, no rail, just Colt goodness. God am I a gonna miss burning up supplies of City owned old "expired" ammo. I put that bitch away dirty so the next old bastard could lube it up, shoot it up and put it up again. It's kind of a tradition. The new kids don't even want to touch those "old" rifles. They are scratching and fighting to get a newer Bushmaster with a vortex red dot.
Blue Lives Matter
I have an A4 rifle built around a 20 inch FN barrel. I haven't shot the Colt or BCM models but damn does that FN barrel shoot good.
I was in the same position, except I had my A4 in basic training, not Iraq(M4). I went with the BCM from G&R. I have a 6920 that I put a 14.5 SOCOM on for the deployment tribute, but if I were to do it again I'd go BCM for both. The fit and finish is superior(to my eyes) and you get a cooler grip and trigger guard. And stickers.
I also had Grant kiss the box with lipstick and sign it, but I have yet to see any value increase because of it.
LOL!
C4
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I hear you resistance. I myself do not believe in safe queens and shoot and carry my most valuable guns often without concern.
I can also say I am not such a purist that I care about alloys and other nuances- just two questions:
Does it meet my standards for reliability and accuracy? If the answer is yes, I stop asking questions
You're worried about nothing.
Are you saying BCM rifle receiver extensions are 7075?
I've had COLT, FN/COLT and FN M16s while in the Army. I always thought the Colts were a little nicer made, but all three shot about the same on zero and qual targets. I wound up with a 20" BCM upper because that was the only quality 20" I could find when I wanted to build an A4 clone. It's worked fine, but I shoot XM855 so it groups decently but not amazing. I'd look around and see if someone like Molon did a shoot off between the bunch.
Also, unless you are butstroking people regularly, jumping out of planes or IMTing the metallurgy of the RE is probably unimportant. The stock itself will eat up a lot of shock.
Flankenstein
07-26-16, 18:27
Are you saying BCM rifle receiver extensions are 7075?
They are.
TheNegativeOne
07-26-16, 18:41
I too have an FN 20" barrel. Double chromed machine gun steel.
I too have an FN 20" barrel. Double chromed machine gun steel.
It would be nice if they would use those in their AR15s.
TheNegativeOne
07-26-16, 18:51
It would be nice if they would use those in their AR15s.
You could buy one from psa and install it yourself.
CPM you make me feel old- when I was in basic we were using M16A1's and were one of the first basic training classes issued the "new" camo uniforms ( BDU's)
They are.
How do we know this for sure?
Flankenstein
07-27-16, 12:32
How do we know this for sure?
I emailed and asked. You can do the same, of course.
Mrgunsngear
07-27-16, 18:59
How do we know this for sure?
I'm guessing we'll get confirmation from Paul or someone else at BCM shortly either way.
Even if it was 6061, I'd personally take the BCM over the others simply because of the QC and CS they offer over the others.
Flankenstein
07-28-16, 13:50
Omfg, are you guys serious?
Hi XXX,
All BCM® components are made to explicit milspec per TDP. Buffer tubes are made from 7075 forgings.
Please do not hesitate to email is with any additional questions.
Wow the Colt AR15A4s are going for nutso prices on GB right now. I don't think its related to "panic buying" because 6920s are still all over the place at normal prices.
The problem lies in the fact that Colt released only a few AR15 A4s to the market with their last batch, and now we're in the long drought between batches which is typical of how Colt operates. I used to follow prices of their 1911s, and whenever there was a dry spell in between batches of Series 70 repros being released the ones available on Gunbroker climbed higher and higher in price. The GB sellers know that if they catch buyers at low tide they can get more for their guns. Your only choice is to either pay their asking price or keep your fingers crossed that Colt will release a new batch of rifles before too long. I would love to have a new AR15A4, but if I have to wait much longer I'm just going to get a Windham instead.
The problem lies in the fact that Colt released only a few AR15 A4s to the market with their last batch, and now we're in the long drought between batches which is typical of how Colt operates. I used to follow prices of their 1911s, and whenever there was a dry spell in between batches of Series 70 repros being released the ones available on Gunbroker climbed higher and higher in price. The GB sellers know that if they catch buyers at low tide they can get more for their guns. Your only choice is to either pay their asking price or keep your fingers crossed that Colt will release a new batch of rifles before too long. I would love to have a new AR15A4, but if I have to wait much longer I'm just going to get a Windham instead.
I know how their pistols operate but didn't know they did it with ARs.
I'm suffering the pistol issue right now. I'm trying to unload some S70s on GB and there is literally zero interest even at 100-200 less than I paid during a drought.
The problem lies in the fact that Colt released only a few AR15 A4s to the market with their last batch, and now we're in the long drought between batches which is typical of how Colt operates. I used to follow prices of their 1911s, and whenever there was a dry spell in between batches of Series 70 repros being released the ones available on Gunbroker climbed higher and higher in price. The GB sellers know that if they catch buyers at low tide they can get more for their guns. Your only choice is to either pay their asking price or keep your fingers crossed that Colt will release a new batch of rifles before too long. I would love to have a new AR15A4, but if I have to wait much longer I'm just going to get a Windham instead.
WOW!.........Huge difference between a Colt A4 and Windham. Why would you go the Windham route when Colt and BCM are far superior?
WOW!.........Huge difference between a Colt A4 and Windham. Why would you go the Windham route when Colt and BCM are far superior?
To be fair 20" A4 type rifles are easier to get right than a carbine.
Lots of the "chart" elements everyone uses to compare carbine vs carbine are not applicable to a 20" Gov't type clone.
I don't know anything about Wyndham other than its some ex-Bushmaster employees that bailed after the Cerberus takeover since they tend to run everything they touch into the ground but I bet it wouldn't be too hard to find a nice 20" or build one that wasn't pure Colt/BCM.
Eurodriver
07-29-16, 14:51
Omfg, are you guys serious?
Hi XXX,
All BCM® components are made to explicit milspec per TDP. Buffer tubes are made from 7075 forgings.
Please do not hesitate to email is with any additional questions.
:rolleyes:
Yeah, BCM is really going to get Carpenter grade steel HP/MPI bolts and then use BS aluminum for their REs.
People on the internet are stupid. Thanks for helping fix it.
I see g&R tactical even has a Colt on the first responder discount list, which I qualify for, at a great price. Like just about everywhere else not in stock currently.
Colt could really be making a killing if the actually produced and distributed items they advertise better.
Looks like my choices are:
FN at roughly $1600, available now
Colt at scalpers price now, ( since the difference in price is only a few hundred, at that point might as well get the FN)
Colt back order, not knowing how long for product to show up
What would you do?
I see g&R tactical even has a Colt on the first responder discount list, which I qualify for, at a great price. Like just about everywhere else not in stock currently.
Colt could really be making a killing if the actually produced and distributed items they advertise better.
Looks like my choices are:
FN at roughly $1600, available now
Colt at scalpers price now, ( since the difference in price is only a few hundred, at that point might as well get the FN)
Colt back order, not knowing how long for product to show up
What would you do?
What? Why hasn't anyone told them this???
pstennisace
08-05-16, 19:47
the FN collector series is a good buy, but the colt is also right up there. I personally used FN upper and the JD machine USMC lower as sort of a tribute rifle.
I went with BCM because I could not get the Colt AR15A4 in California :(
Glad my NFA stuff is in AZ!
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