Weird Claim on Alleged Colts at Gun Show

[Tzintzuntzan]

So as I was poking around earlier this morning I found a rather strange article, see link below.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/25/potentially-rare-colt-rifles-found-at-a-gun-show/

And naturally my question is how accurate are any of these claims being made? No I'm not planning to buy the rifles as they all exceed my current budget and aren't what I'm looking for at the moment. Does anyone here have some information on what these rifles are or is this just a scam that makes almost zero sense?

[Averageman]

I would like to hear what Colt has to say about those guns.
If they are legit Colt guns someone has some explaining to do.

[Ick]

Would love to hear the outcome on this.

[Tzintzuntzan]

I would like to hear what Colt has to say about those guns.
If they are legit Colt guns someone has some explaining to do.

According to the author Colt allegedly said "the numbers sound like serial marks we'd use" what?

[ScaryWoody]

It seems they are dreaming big with the pricing.

[Tzintzuntzan]

My best guess is that the guy doesn't have a leg to stand on and is hoping panic buyers are willing to shell out for stuff many wouldn't take for free. The whole thing sounds bogus. I mean I don't know why they would hand carve a serial number this isn't the 1540s after all.

[Averageman]

I dunno.
If I ran Colt, I don't think I would let my prototypes out the gate.
It would appear that's what he was trying to sell these as, Colt prototypes.
It doesn't really matter now, the cats out of the bag, but real or not, this guy is likely to have some people very interested in where they came from and how he came to own them. Colt and the BATFE.
Either way, if they "walked out" the gate someone's gonna catch some hell.

[JoshNC]

Colt has released many prototypes and tool room guns over the years. Many went into collections of Colt execs and then are eventually sold to dealers as these individuals thin out their collection or die. Ruben Mendiola had a handful of transferable full auto colt m16a2 lowers with X prefix serial numbers that had the model and markings milled off and were part of the ACR program. A poster on TOS bought a few semiauto Colt ARs that are X prefix tool room prototypes. The lion share of these tool room guns are likely in Reed Knight's collection after he cleaned out the tool room as payment for his work on colt's SOCOM pistol submission.

[Doc Safari]

Colt has released many prototypes and tool room guns over the years. Many went into collections of Colt execs and then are eventually sold to dealers as these individuals thin out their collection or die.

This is what I was betting on. A con artist is not likely to go to great lengths to fake rare items that sell in the stratospheric thousands of dollars. A faker would be more interested in making fast money and a $9,000 rifle at a gun show is not going to have many takers.

Assuming the other premise: stolen prototypes, they would be too hot to display in an open gun show IMHO.

I could be wrong, but my instincts were leaning toward "ex Colt executive who decided to liquidate his private perks".

[killshot1]

Im thinkin doc might be right !

[dwhitehorne]

Well we had a few dozen rifles at work that were older AR15 sporters that the serial numbers all started with SP so that is definitely the beginning of a Colt serial number. David

[kirkland]

Now those are some very interesting rifles!

[scottryan]

All those guns pictured in that article are real Colts that left the factory in the condition and configuration pictured.

However, they are overpriced for what they are. The seller is fishing for a retard buyer.

They are what is left of a collection of "one off" guns and all the good stuff from the collection has already been sold off.

[Kdubya]

For someone asking for that much cash there are a few too many "not much is known..." references. Not saying they're fake, but it sounds like some of this information came out a game of telephone on the middle school bus. If they're truly prototypes that were never meant to leave the factory, how many people at Colt would even know about them? Just going to be hard to prove, especially if the few that know are not too happy about these ending up at a gun show.

[jerrysimons]

I want that wood furniture!

[mack7.62]

I want that wood furniture!

For $7,000 I will hand carve you a set.:dance3:

[sundance435]

I don't think I'd buy any of those, even if money wasn't an object. I couldn't make out a price on the dissipator, but I recall CDNN selling "rare" Colt dissipator's not that long ago for $900-1,000.

[kirkland]

Call me crazy, but I kinda always wanted an AR with wood furniture. There was a company selling ironwood stocks, grips, and hand guards a few years ago, nice looking stuff.

[TheNegativeOne]

Wow. Know what else is rare? Someone willing to pay that much for a gun just cuz a theres a pony on the side.

[Tzintzuntzan]

I don't think I'd buy any of those, even if money wasn't an object. I couldn't make out a price on the dissipator, but I recall CDNN selling "rare" Colt dissipator's not that long ago for $900-1,000.

I saw the price listed at $3500 and there was a 6940 listed at $3000. The seller is delusional if they think someone will pay those prices. I remember how in 2012 some schmuck tried to sell me a basic Noveske at over $2000 when rainier arms was still selling them at sane prices. Now that I am slightly older there is no chance I'll fall for this anymore.

[JC5188]

Wow. Know what else is rare? Someone willing to pay that much for a gun just cuz a theres a pony on the side.

Colt is one of the most collected brands on the planet. So, you're wrong.


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[Handgunner]

That wood stock looks terrible.

[killshot1]

Colt is one of the most collected brands on the planet. So, you're wrong.


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You are right JC5188 ! But in this case there is a great lack of common sense ! At the prices listed here, its obvious the guy has no morals ! Even your great grand children will never recoup the money asked for these rifles.

[JC5188]

You are right JC5188 ! But in this case there is a great lack of common sense ! At the prices listed here, its obvious the guy has no morals ! Even your great grand children will never recoup the money asked for these rifles.

Yeah well, REASON goes out the window when you are talking about Colts guns. I don't disagree that the prices are a bit...exaggerated.

Granted, it's typically the more historic pieces that command stupid money, but I learned long ago to never underestimate the power of the pony.


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[MistWolf]

Buy the rifle, not the story.

I've seen plenty of stuff like this when the Pomona Gun show was running strong, back in the day. Sellers put crazy prices on certain pieces. They know it's not going to sell but it generates a lot of interest and starts a lot of talk. It creates mystery that's easy for people to get caught up in

[fly]

Yeah well, REASON goes out the window when you are talking about Colts guns. I don't disagree that the prices are a bit...exaggerated.

Granted, I learned long ago to never underestimate the power of the pony.


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My new sig; '' The power of the Pony ''

[JC5188]

My new sig; '' The power of the Pony ''

Lol...


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[SLewis]

Those all look terrible.

[scottryan]

The Sporter Lightweight R6530 SL000023 isn't worth anywhere near $7500 and honestly isn't worth anymore than any other preban R6530 with a slab side lower.

To be honest most of those guns are retarded.

The only one I could see myself owning is the silver Coltguard A2 and it isn't worth $10k

[RHINOWSO]

You are right JC5188 ! But in this case there is a great lack of common sense ! At the prices listed here, its obvious the guy has no morals ! Even your great grand children will never recoup the money asked for these rifles.

No Morals? That has nothing to do with it. His rifles, his choice to sell at whatever price he deems fit. Maybe they'll sit for months, unsold.

Bad business decision, too high an asking price? Maybe. But morals have NOTHING to do with it.

Zero. Ziltch. Nada.

Look up free market in your spare time.

[sundance435]

No Morals? That has nothing to do with it. His rifles, his choice to sell at whatever price he deems fit. Maybe they'll sit for months, unsold.

Bad business decision, too high an asking price? Maybe. But morals have NOTHING to do with it.

Zero. Ziltch. Nada.

Look up free market in your spare time.

Harumph! The market bears whatever price people are willing to pay and I'm not sure why people believe the firearms market is any different. Forget trying to predict collector markets, though.

[CCK]

No Morals? That has nothing to do with it. His rifles, his choice to sell at whatever price he deems fit. Maybe they'll sit for months, unsold.

Bad business decision, too high an asking price? Maybe. But morals have NOTHING to do with it.

Zero. Ziltch. Nada.

Look up free market in your spare time.

But he's charging more than I would pay! And that's not FAIR! Therefore he has no morals. /s

[Secondofangle]

So my guess, and maybe ScottRyan knows, is these are the semi-auto variants coming out of the Colt Employee's collection, the selling of which has flooded the M16 Market for the past 24 months with rare variants. That collection appears to now be exhausted of full auto guns, or there's a brief hiatus.

There is a guy on Sturmgewehr (recent thread easily found) who paid over $70,000 for an M16A2 papered gun that was rollmarked M4 COMMANDO ENHANCED with a 4 position selector. For a variety of reasons, most folks think he's high on drugs for making that purchase, but it proves that if somebody has the cake, and something is rare enough, an exchange will take place.

The 6721 "one of 134 guns" is listed in the BBGV as being the "rarest blue label pre-ban Colt" or something like that. In my mind that makes it worth $4000 tops. Unless you're a collector with every other variant and you can't find a well documented preban 6721.

In the collection of Mr. Colt, there is said to have been an M16 that was one of a special run for the Saudi Royal Family, which had their Royal Seal stamped into it and was inlaid with gold. How much do you think that one sold for?

[Secondofangle]

Note also that the wood furniture gun has a thumbhole stock and is said to be from 1995. The SN would be about right for 1995. I see that it has a Bayo lug and FH. So whoever commissioned it apparently wanted that bayo lug and FH and was willing to give up the pistol grip for it!

I'm also interested in where this gun show was (guessing PA), and what is that variant on the left of the first picture - looks like a dissapator/midlength.