Noveske KX3 on a 16'' barrel?

[HansTheHobbit]

I'm going back and forth about using one of my ARs for home defense, but my concern is the noise level in such a confined space. I'm not willing to get a suppressor for it at this time due to the expense and restrictions, but mainly I'm also not really too eager to use an NFA item for self defense. Should I have to actually use it, the involvement of a "silencer" might not help my case. I don't know what the legal precedent is on this, if any, but it just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. So I'm looking for the muzzle device that's going to be the least likely to blow an eardrum. I've heard many times that the KX3 actually directs much of the concussion downrange, thus my interest.

Will the KX3 perform better than a flash hider in terms of saving the shooter's ears?

Also, will the KX3 function well on a 16'' mid length? I know they were designed for SBRs and produce back pressure, but how much? As much as a suppressor, half, 10%? If the back pressure is significant, then how much could that be mitigated with an adjustable gas block?

One last question. I know the KX3 is famous for its flash. For those who have them, have you shot them in the dark, or at least in low light? Was the flash bright enough to interrupt your sight picture or ruin your night vision?

Thanks for the help.

[pingdork]

Never shot indoors with my Pig but my guess is anything you shoot in a room is going to seem louder than normal since all that concussion the kx3 sends forward will bounce off the walls right back at you.


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[BlackWatch16]

I also do not have experience with the Noveske indoors, but I have shot enough ARs with enough different muzzle devices to tell you 3 things for certain:
1) You are never going to be able to tame the noise to an acceptable level while inside a small structure with closed doors/windows, regardless of the muzzle device used.
2) With that in mind, a 16" middy is a much better choice than an SBR or pistol if it's not going to be suppressed.
3) The best thing you can do is at least tame the flash. When under auditory exclusion, at least you'll be able to see decently. Most flash hiders also help mitigate the concussion since they aren't sending the blast laterally like brakes or comps...save that for the competition range.

BTW I suppose I understand your point about your apprehension of using a super scary and magical silencer for home/personal defense, but I wouldn't worry about that since motives and intent are much more important to a case than the specific tools used. But I guess that depends on your state of residence...
Perhaps if more people bought and used suppressors for various shooting activities/functions and highlighted the ridiculous nature of the NFA process, then they would be perceived as more normal by the public/police/attorneys/legislators and the laws can eventually change to something more favorable to freedom loving responsible citizens.

[HansTheHobbit]

Like I said, I don't know if such information would even be admissible. I suppose it would mostly depend on the judge and the circumstances of the case. But if it were deemed admissible, and the jury was not made up of enthusiasts such as ourselves, well...I don't think it would go over too well. They would probably just assume I was a James Bond wannabe looking to shoot someone for my own satisfaction.

Of course I fully realize that the Noveske is not going to reduce the sound in any way, much less make it hearing safe, but if it really directs the blast forward like they advertise, then theoretically it could prevent an eardrum from being blown out in a hallway. While the concussion would bounce off the walls, it would be spread out over a larger area and be absorbed by the walls and furniture. I would much rather have it bounce off the walls first than go directly to my eardrums. I guess this is just something I will have to go out and try.

But, maybe someone can answer whether it's kosher to use a KX3 on a 16'' mid length? If not, then I can stop right now. If so, then maybe it's worth looking into.

I also forgot to ask, the KX3 is advertised as reducing muzzle climb without the hellacious concussion directed at the shooters ears. If it helped with muzzle climb without increasing the likelihood of a blown eardrum, then that would be worth it right there, assuming I could deal with the flash. However, with a 16'' barrel, would the flash even be that horrific in the first place?

[BlackWatch16]

You seem to have many related questions. Have you tried using the search function on this topic? In 30 seconds I found at least 4-5 similar threads with folks asking the same questions with actual experience and perhaps even some data to back it up.
At the risk of being overly blunt, I'm just gonna say you are going down the wrong road with this one. A KX3 offers no value for a 16" rifle and will not do anything to dampen the sound. You would be wasting your money. Even Noveske will tell you that's not what it was designed for.
Get a good flash hider. Heck, if you're concerned with the legal aspects and potential jury rulings, just stick with a standard A2 so it's not an issue. It will work better and more consistently than a lot of other more expensive options anyway.

[HansTheHobbit]

You seem to have many related questions. Have you tried using the search function on this topic? In 30 seconds I found at least 4-5 similar threads with folks asking the same questions with actual experience and perhaps even some data to back it up.
At the risk of being overly blunt, I'm just gonna say you are going down the wrong road with this one. A KX3 offers no value for a 16" rifle and will not do anything to dampen the sound. You would be wasting your money. Even Noveske will tell you that's not what it was designed for.
Get a good flash hider. Heck, if you're concerned with the legal aspects and potential jury rulings, just stick with a standard A2 so it's not an issue. It will work better and more consistently than a lot of other more expensive options anyway.

I'm thinking a linear comp is going to give me more of what I want than a flash hider. Is the KX3 any better or worse than any other linear comp?

[Iraqgunz]

There are MULTIPLE discussions addressing muzzle devices and the BS NFA concerns. Fire almost any non suppressed weapons indoors and you'll be in for a treat. It won't matter much what's on the end.

[HansTheHobbit]

There are MULTIPLE discussions addressing muzzle devices and the BS NFA concerns. Fire almost any non suppressed weapons indoors and you'll be in for a treat. It won't matter much what's on the end.

I've never shot a gun of any kind indoors without at least earplugs, so I really have no idea.

[HansTheHobbit]

Of all the reviews I've watched, some people mention that the perceived noise is reduced, and others say it makes an extreme difference. It seems to either help more on some rifles than others or different people just have different priorities. I can see how the cone shape might direct sound forward, but will reducing the "perceived noise" reduce the chance of blowing an eardrum? In other words, does it actually reduce the decibels at the shooter's ear, or is that just a perception due to decreased blast?

[ColtSeavers]

Of all the reviews I've watched, some people mention that the perceived noise is reduced, and others say it makes an extreme difference. It seems to either help more on some rifles than others or different people just have different priorities. I can see how the cone shape might direct sound forward, but will reducing the "perceived noise" reduce the chance of blowing an eardrum? In other words, does it actually reduce the decibels at the shooter's ear, or is that just a perception due to decreased blast?

DPMS LEVANG LINEAR COMP TEST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo0WMNPC2QI

As mentioned above though, you're still touching off a round in an enclosed space thay will simply bounce the sound around instead of allowing it to disperse away (from you/the muzzle).

I actually do have a linear comp (a Simple Threaded Device) on my HD AR. It is great at redirecting everything away from me and my ears. It does not combat recoil and/or muzzle flip as well as a true brake or compensator, perceived noise level as well as a suppressor or flash as well as a dedicated flash hider/suppressor. Again, it excels at simply redirecting everything that much further away from the muzzle.

The reason I use it is because I do not have to worry about any redirected blast around the muzzle other than the conical expansion out the end. If I were to shoot from an improvised position, I do not have to concern myself with the muzzle blast affecting me if I were to say, post up against a wall, shoot from under the bed or shoot with family next to me (as examples) either before or after the fact.

[Falar]

There are MULTIPLE discussions addressing muzzle devices and the BS NFA concerns. Fire almost any non suppressed weapons indoors and you'll be in for a treat. It won't matter much what's on the end.

You can say that again. I always found it isn't too bad if you are the shooter but being near the muzzle SUCKS.

[HansTheHobbit]

The only possible advantage of the KX3 I can see is if it seriously reduces the noise and concussion at the shooter's ears. I know it's said to increase reliability on SBRs, but so would an extra 3'' of barrel. Take a Mk18 and put a KX3 on it, then you're about 1'' away from having a 14.5'' mid length. I can't think of any situation where you wouldn't be infinitely better off just adding three inches of barrel. So if it doesn't increase comfort for the shooter I can't see it has any benefits. I guess it looks cool?

[BlackWatch16]

Take a Mk18 and put a KX3 on it, then you're about 1'' away from having a 14.5'' mid length.

This is wrong in so many ways.
You are searching for a solution that simply does not exist for a problem that you can't do much about. Again, if you're going to fire indoors in the dark, at least use something to mitigate the flash. I promise that is more important since your hearing will already be shot.

[HansTheHobbit]

This is wrong in so many ways.
You are searching for a solution that simply does not exist for a problem that you can't do much about. Again, if you're going to fire indoors in the dark, at least use something to mitigate the flash. I promise that is more important since your hearing will already be shot.

Wrong about what? If the KX3 doesn't save the shooter's ears, then what's the point? I guess what I'm really asking is, Does it work as advertised, or is it just for looks?

[ColtSeavers]

Here's a pretty good thread on the kx3 specifically in case you've not read it yet:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?654-noveske-kx3

[HansTheHobbit]

Here's a pretty good thread on the kx3 specifically in case you've not read it yet:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?654-noveske-kx3

Thanks, didn't find that one yet. I still don't think I would ever use one with an SBR just to increase reliability, though. It adds three inches and 8oz to the barrel, so while I'm sure it does increase reliability, it would also start to defeat the purpose of said SBR very quickly. If we were talking a 7'' barrel then maybe, but we're talking 10-12'' ARs, which then become 13-15'' ARs. So while I'm sure a 12'' AR with kx3 would be very reliable, a 14.5'' M4 variant with the flash hider gets you the same thing within .5'', plus you get the increased velocity of the extra barrel, not to mention a flash hider that actually works.

But...


I was fortunate that i got one in March of 04. I was extremely sceptical at first, until we started running through the shoot house.
Two things became immediately evident. While some short barreled guns can become testy under certain circumstances or with some ammo, they all ran fine. The other was that i didn't have a headache after the shoothouse runs.

It seems like they really do work as advertised. So if they make that big of a difference, then that's value added that can't be achieved by other muzzle devices. Again, though, I'm not willing to use NFA weapons for home defense, at least not until there's more case information on that subject. While I might like a 12'' barrel, it just isn't gonna happen right now. So, what is the consequence of using a KX3 on a 16'' barrel in terms of reliability (it also has an adjustable gas block)? Also assume that a rifle weight buffer and spring are being used. Noveske claims they work fine, but then again they're trying to sell them.

[ColtSeavers]

The only thing I could suggest is asking for gas port diameter measurements from people using the KX3 on 16" barrels that also notice either an increase in recoil or increased parts wear and/or failure.