View Full Version : A Vet, a Dog, and Banned from the UK....
A good friend of mine, who has the most awesome service dog, named Kevin, is attempting to go to England as part of finishing up his degree. Anyways, due to PTSD issues, he didn't want to be away from the dog, and trying to make plans for someone to keep him were not really easy, he decided to take him with. So the story picks up here, AFTER all the bullshit getting screwed by airlines, he is in Amsterdam, stranded, and banned from the UK....
I'm a 32 year old combat veteran and all I want to do right now is break down and cry from all the stress and frustration of the last two days.
First, and CERTAINLY foremost, I cannot thank ***** enough for being an amazing friend. He has stuck by my side from Tampa to the Netherlands to make sure Kevin and I were taken care of. He has sacrificed his own time and educational opportunity for me and for that, I cannot thank him enough.
Next, thank you all for posting on my wall and commenting so much to try and help me. I appreciate it more than you all know.
Here's the facts: I used a UK governmental website to determine my travel needs. I also used a travel agent who worked closely with delta to assure we were good to go. I then went to my vet to get all the correct shots and paperwork. I then took that to the USDA and and got their blessing. Delta listed Kevin on my tickets and put us on a plan to London. Through a series of weather related issues, we ended up being routed through the Netherlands to make sure we could get to London today. Upon arrival in the Netherlands they refused to put me on a flight to England bc the UK does not accept dogs. I get on the phone with immigration in London and they say I had to have a pre acceptance certificate for Kevin and that he wouldn't be considered an SD bc he's not ADI registered. And because he's a pet in their eyes, he has to arrive as cargo in the belly of the plane. At that point he said had we flown in directly, then it wouldn't have been a big deal but would still cost me £354 (also not listed anywhere) to get him in if and only if my docs were otherwise perfect.
So we decide to take a train since the requirements are different. We head to customs to enter Holland and end up getting an AWESOME customs agent and the best check-in agent ever, ***** , who worked hard to get us back on a flight. Then more people got involved and Amsterdam called London and argued for me since this was Deltas mistake, not mine. At that point, England shut me out completely. I'm not allowed in the country via plane, train, or boat.
Where's that leave me? Well, **** and I are In a tiny cramped hotel room in Amsterdam, exhausted and defeated. He will travel to London tomorrow and I will working with the State department to try and convince England to let me in. If not...I will be turned around and sent back home tomorrow.
Wtf? As if I needed another reason to loathe England. On what grounds are they preventing your friend from entering under?
Maybe he should say he's a Muslim refugee.....
Wtf? As if I needed another reason to loathe England. On what grounds are they preventing your friend from entering under?
Maybe he should say he's a Muslim refugee.....
I dunno, guess they are pissed about people from Amsterdam calling on his behalf.
EDIT: friend said they are denying him entry because he didn't notify them the dog was coming, and because he landed in Europe instead of England.
KalashniKEV
07-31-16, 20:06
The whole "PTSD Dog" thing is waaaay played out these days.
Unless you're blind and he's guiding you around, it's not an actual service animal... and yes, PTSD is very real, and it can and does kill... frequently.
I've been around these guys with the "Sir, there are no dogs allowed in this restaurant." followed by the "I'm a COMBAT VETERAN! I SEEEEEN things! If I don't get to take my dog with me everywhere I go, including waltzing into private stores and places where food is served, also including waiving all pet visa and quarantine requirements while traveling, I'm going to break down and cry! In fact... SMILE, buddy! You're about to be famous for being mean to my dog and hurting the feelings of a real deal, life taking, indirect fire dodging COMBAT VETERAN!"
It's like walking around with the "No Fireworks- COMBAT VETERAN lives here!" sign.
I get that it's cool to have a faithful dog by your side and take him everywhere you go. It probably keeps things in your house from getting chewed on and cuts out boarding costs when traveling.
I don't have any kind of PTSD, but I enjoy coping with my military service by enjoying a "service drink" that can vary at different times from a fine old whiskey, to a well crafted brew, to Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill. I demand that everyone accommodate me by allowing me to bring my service drink with me wherever I go, all rules be damned.
...and I'll buy it with my own money, which will actually save the VA some cash over the boner-killing brain poison they prescribe.
Pretty sure Paris Hilton could get into England with her pocket rat in her purse.
Kev, this guy could probably live and function without his dog - you are correct about that. But at the same time a lot of people, and not just combat vets, who are dealing with some kind of medical rehab do a LOT better with a dog because it might be a case of "there is nobody else."
So while "service dogs" may not cure cancer, a lot of times they are the cure for "screw it, I don't care anymore." So if that means they get to go place with their dog where I can't go with mine, then good for them so long as actual health codes aren't being violated.
Sounds like this guy did all of his due diligence and did everything asked of him to be "good to go" and as a result of things beyond his control, like landing in Europe, he is being screwed. I can respect a nation that has decided to control their borders but at the same time they shouldn't be trying to screw a guy over as hard as they can.
To me this looks like the fault of Delta, and at this point all I'd want is a return ticket and a refund. If you can't even bring your dog to a country, then it's just going to be more intolerable from there.
I'm sure this guy probably tried to do the "polite and reasonable" solution and got nowhere.
The_War_Wagon
07-31-16, 20:58
Guess they need a FRESH ass-kicking. The Battle of New Orleans appears to be forgotten... :mad:
Sounds... whiny. Just being honest here.
I mean, sure, it sucks, but it's England - aka an entirely different country with different laws and rules. It seems to me that if you're literally wanting to cry about the fact you can't go with your dog, maybe you shouldn't be traveling abroad to begin with.
Just my .02.
KalashniKEV
07-31-16, 21:35
Kev, this guy could probably live and function with his dog - you are correct about that. But at the same time a lot of people, and not just combat vets, who are dealing with some kind of medical rehab do a LOT better with a dog because it might be a case of "there is nobody else."
I know all about it.
I raise my service drink to him, and I hope he gets home soon and his issues resolved.
What's the guy going to school for anyway? I can't think of many professions where bringing a dog around with you, or not being able to function without a dog, wouldn't be completely and totally inappropriate.
MountainRaven
07-31-16, 21:45
I know all about it.
I raise my service drink to him, and I hope he gets home soon and his issues resolved.
What's the guy going to school for anyway? I can't think of many professions where bringing a dog around with you, or not being able to function without a dog, wouldn't be completely and totally inappropriate.
Given that PTSD is generally not for life, he would probably be perfectly able to function in a couple of years without his service dog being by his side at all times.
That being said, there are plenty of businesses that allow employees to bring their dogs to work and plenty of professions involved in those businesses.
The guy this post is about is a friend of mine and we served together in Iraq. Small world djegators.
He is a legit combat veteran. He is traveling to the UK for a study abroad gig for school and was selected for the program knowing hexactly would be bringing the dog. I'm not going to get into his schooling as it's not my place to. Also he is going to school for something that allows service animals and has already done work in the field with the dog. He is a good dude. Not a whiner.
I know all about it.
I raise my service drink to him, and I hope he gets home soon and his issues resolved.
What's the guy going to school for anyway? I can't think of many professions where bringing a dog around with you, or not being able to function without a dog, wouldn't be completely and totally inappropriate.
That first sentence should have been:
"
Kev, this guy could probably live and function without his dog - you are correct about that."
As for the rest, I have no idea what he is going to school for or why it has to be done in England rather than the US. That info would probably answer a lot of questions.
But in the meantime, I'm going to defer to the American serviceman in question and and not make negative assumptions until I know differently. All of them have at least earned that.
That said, I suspect it's probably nothing more than a "change my life experience" thing where he planned to study abroad and believed he had made all the necessary arrangements to bring his buddy with him. If it were me simply taking a vacation and Delta screwed up and as a result torpedoed my vacation I'd probably be pretty vocal about that alone.
Coming back from my honeymoon some effin airline wanted to put me and my wife on different flights, despite the fact that I already had seat assignments, because they overbooked. I was prepared to kill ticket agents that day and was aggressively unhappy and made it known. Thankfully they offered a free flight to one of the other guys and my plans didn't get messed with so I didn't have to go all "Monkey Steals the Peach" on anyone.
The guy this post is about is a friend of mine and we served together in Iraq. Small world djegators.
He is a legit combat veteran. He is traveling to the UK for a study abroad gig for school and was selected for the program knowing hexactly would be bringing the dog. I'm not going to get into his schooling as it's not my place to. Also he is going to school for something that allows service animals and has already done work in the field with the dog. He is a good dude. Not a whiner.
Good enough for me. Hope everything works out for him.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-31-16, 23:39
Talking to England instead of our USDA might have helped.
Tweet it at Prince Harry and see if he can get his grandma to kick some buts.
I feel bad for him. I have never flown with a dog. It must be a pain. Part of me is sympathetic and part of me isn't. The whole service dog thing just doesn't pass the smell test in most of the cases I've seen. Unless the dog is helping you because you're blind. I agree with the earlier post comparing this type of service dog and the please no fireworks im a combat veteran with PTSD. That's a load of BS too. It's about people looking for attention and drama. I have a dog. I'm a dog person. But it's just a dog. The rules are different abroad. England is very strick because of rabies. It sucks the plane was diverted. I agree reaching out to Harry via social media might help.
Moose-Knuckle
08-01-16, 05:25
So he is banned from the UK?
In the UK 900 Syrians (alone) were arrested over the last year . . .
It's very telling just who the UK bans from entry and welcomes with open arms.
SYRIA CRIME WAVE Hundreds of Syrians in UK arrested over string of offences including rape and child abuse
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1528756/hundreds-of-syrians-in-uk-arrested-over-string-of-offences-including-rape-and-child-abuse/
BuzzinSATX
08-01-16, 05:51
So he is banned from the UK?
In the UK 900 Syrians (alone) were arrested over the last year . . .
It's very telling just who the UK bans from entry and welcomes with open arms.
SYRIA CRIME WAVE Hundreds of Syrians in UK arrested over string of offences including rape and child abuse
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1528756/hundreds-of-syrians-in-uk-arrested-over-string-of-offences-including-rape-and-child-abuse/
I'm speculating here, but I do know when I was stationed in Europe and the far East, everyone who tried to bring their pets over had to deal with a quarantine for the pet. Just how they do business. I'm pretty sure this isn't some anti combat vet thing. It's an agriculture restriction, and everyone has to deal with it. Sorry this guy didn't get the righting info on traveling with a pet up front, but he should have...
Business_Casual
08-01-16, 06:28
Talking to England instead of our USDA might have helped.
Tweet it at Prince Harry and see if he can get his grandma to kick some buts.
No, that's part of the process, the USDA signs off on what is essentially an export cert. I have exported two dogs to the UK and his story sounds about right. He didn't mention the ARC at Heathrow though, but that could be what he meant by cargo. They are very, very picky about your paperwork and approvals. Mine was declined once in the US and we changed it and then they declined to release them at the ARC until an additional fax signature came from our vet. We hired a "fixer" and the process was still fairly bumpy.
LOL, coming back, I asked the customs guy what he needed to see and all he wanted was a rabies cert.
I won't get into the PTSD, service dog side, as I have no experience, and I am biased towards ny friend, but I assure you did his due diligence to make this happen, and despite his efforts, it didn't work, and it is really no fault of him. For one, he would have had little reason to know the UK would treat him differently for not flying direct, but entering from Europe, since that was not his itinerary. He worked on this plan for months, I assure you.
BuzzinSATX
08-01-16, 07:38
I won't get into the PTSD, service dog side, as I have no experience, and I am biased towards ny friend, but I assure you did his due diligence to make this happen, and despite his efforts, it didn't work, and it is really no fault of him. For one, he would have had little reason to know the UK would treat him differently for not flying direct, but entering from Europe, since that was not his itinerary. He worked on this plan for months, I assure you.
I feel bad for the guy, I really do. I did not mean to assume he didn't try and figure out all the legal junk required, and I feel for the guy. I hope this works out for him.
Take Care,
Buzz
Averageman
08-01-16, 07:48
The only person I know with a PTSD service dog is a former ER Nurse that had served multiple tours in Iraq and suffered a severe injury in training for another tour. The Dog seems to have helped her,(btw She now works at a .gov agency to assisted Veterans) but having known the before and after She's simply not the person She was and in some ways I wonder if the dog is helping or hurting. She seems to be more isolated than before and sometimes seems to use the dog as a reason not to socialize.
People are complicated, PTSD is complicated, viewing it from the outside is difficult at best. All I think you can do is be there and offer your friendship.
I wish your friend the best.
I'm speculating here, but I do know when I was stationed in Europe and the far East, everyone who tried to bring their pets over had to deal with a quarantine for the pet. Just how they do business. I'm pretty sure this isn't some anti combat vet thing. It's an agriculture restriction, and everyone has to deal with it. Sorry this guy didn't get the righting info on traveling with a pet up front, but he should have...
I have friends who worked in Australia for several years and they went thru hell getting their dog over their with them. It was quarantined for a long time, not sure but want to say 6 months. And they had a similar hassle in the US on their return.
Taking animals to foreign countries, even those that speak English, is a royal PITB. My guess is that even Canada would be no different, but I don't know that for sure.
I feel bad for the guy, I really do. I did not mean to assume he didn't try and figure out all the legal junk required, and I feel for the guy. I hope this works out for him.
Take Care,
Buzz
It's all good...if I thought he was being a dumbass or lazy, I would have no trouble telling him so.
KalashniKEV
08-01-16, 09:16
I'm pretty sure this isn't some anti combat vet thing. It's an agriculture restriction, and everyone has to deal with it.
Homeboy should have been packing one of these:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YXIAAOSwPhdU5h6F/s-l300.jpg
Check out all the rules you get to ignore on the bottom and inappropriate places you can bring your dog: Restaurants, Airplanes, Lodging, Trains, Boats... something.
Plus it's got the SEAL OF AUTHENTICITY so they know you aren't playing around.
http://servicedogcentral.org/content/fake-service-dog-credentials
From above link:
"Remember that "[a]nimals whose sole function is to provide emotional support, comfort, therapy, companionship, therapeutic benefits, or to promote emotional well-being are not service animals..." so a service animal must be specifically trained to DO something."
Digital_Damage
08-01-16, 09:49
the service pet thing is out of control... sorry, but I side with the UK on this one.
The only person I know with a PTSD service dog is a former ER Nurse that had served multiple tours in Iraq and suffered a severe injury in training for another tour. The Dog seems to have helped her,(btw She now works at a .gov agency to assisted Veterans) but having known the before and after She's simply not the person She was and in some ways I wonder if the dog is helping or hurting. She seems to be more isolated than before and sometimes seems to use the dog as a reason not to socialize.
People are complicated, PTSD is complicated, viewing it from the outside is difficult at best. All I think you can do is be there and offer your friendship.
I wish your friend the best.
Yep. This has always helped me put things into context:
When a trout rising to a fly gets hooked on a line and finds himself unable to swim about freely, he begins with a fight which results in struggles and splashes and sometimes an escape. Often, of course, the situation is too tough for him. In the same way the human being struggles with his environment and with the hooks that catch him. Sometimes he masters his difficulties; sometimes they are too much for him. His struggles are all that the world sees and it naturally misunderstands them. It is hard for a free fish to understand what is happening to a hooked one. Karl Menniger
I can't speak for others.
I just say "Today is a new day".
I knew an old fellow who is gone now. He was like a beatnik but didn't know it. That Cake song "I bombed Korea" always reminded me of him. He'd had a not so pleasant time in the war but he told me once out of nowhere "I decided I could be pissed or I could be happy. But I decided."
He got into the UK. All his paperwork was correct and things just got messed up.
Also his dog isn't just a PTSD dog. It also helps with physical disabilities. I should have noted that earlier.
Homeboy should have been packing one of these:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YXIAAOSwPhdU5h6F/s-l300.jpg
Check out all the rules you get to ignore on the bottom and inappropriate places you can bring your dog: Restaurants, Airplanes, Lodging, Trains, Boats... something.
Plus it's got the SEAL OF AUTHENTICITY so they know you aren't playing around.
Yes.....YES.....feel the hate flowing through you. FEEEEEL the power of the dark side.
KalashniKEV
08-01-16, 15:01
Yes.....YES.....feel the hate flowing through you. FEEEEEL the power of the dark side.
No hate.
I see Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane in retail shops with mutts wearing service dog signs. Though I always like their dogs, I think at least half of these folks are full of shit regarding a true need for the dogs. Usually I'm not this insensitive and hope I didn't harelip anybody(another insensitive remark).
I see Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane in retail shops with mutts wearing service dog signs. Though I always like their dogs, I think at least half of these folks are full of shit regarding a true need for the dogs. Usually I'm not this insensitive and hope I didn't harelip anybody(another insensitive remark).
Down here the popular trend seems to be to "Service Dog" your pet so you can go anywhere. It's a lot like perfectly healthy people who manage a handicapped license plate and hanger for their car.
I had issues visiting England..God damn weird country to visit anyways.
Looking at English girls and then comparing to Germans and Scandic girls...trust me...
something is wrong there.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
brushy bill
08-03-16, 23:50
I see Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane in retail shops with mutts wearing service dog signs. Though I always like their dogs, I think at least half of these folks are full of shit regarding a true need for the dogs. Usually I'm not this insensitive and hope I didn't harelip anybody(another insensitive remark).
Down here the popular trend seems to be to "Service Dog" your pet so you can go anywhere. It's a lot like perfectly healthy people who manage a handicapped license plate and hanger for their car.
This is an area where I think some of my fellow vets are playing BS games and detracting from the cause of those who really do suffer from PTSD and I wish they would not. DON'T get a dog and claim it is a "service" dog just to have a pet with you in public. Eventually, public will tire of it and those who need it will lose it.
Of note, we never saw as many PTSD related complaints with the WWII or Korea vets, and not even to the same extent with Vietnam (they certainly didn't have dogs as far as I know). I don't know why we see them so much now, when the training is supposedly better (except that life is otherwise easier). I'll probably get a lot of negative feedback for this, and I know there are legitimate PTSD issues, but not to the extent we're seeing. I ran into a guy at the VA that was trying to claim PTSD for a non-combat period. Ridiculous.
Problem is no standard was established and a lot of registry companies are just selling a vest for the animal and don't care if it trained or not.
A Service Dog should meet a minimal standard; basic commands and ignore other animals/people for starters.
Heavy Metal
08-08-16, 19:58
Problem is no standard was established and a lot of registry companies are just selling a vest for the animal and don't care if it trained or not.
A Service Dog should meet a minimal standard; basic commands and ignore other animals/people for starters.
There was a 'service dog' in the Wytheville Wal-Mart.
It barked constantly. If it was a trained service dog, the owner needed a refund. I think it was a mutt with a vest.
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