View Full Version : Opinions on Walther CCP vs PPS
I have seen a lot of good reviews for the PPS and for the PPQ but does anyone have experience with the CCP?
Check the Walther forum. The CCP appears to be a rather problematic firearm. I believe it's made by Umarex in their Airgun factory in Arnsberg, as opposed to the PPS which is made by Walther in Ulm.
I have a PPS Classic and a PPS M2. Both are really excellent, well-made pistols, ideally-suited for concealed carry. I also have a couple of PPQs...likewise excellent pistol.
The CCP is an abortion of a handgun (check out the Walther Forums and see for yourself!). The PPS is a better choice.
I have two CCPs. They have both been flawless. I also have the PPS. I like the CCP better and carry it more. The PPS is flatter but does not have as good of a trigger.
I have the PPS (M1) with paddle release. I wasn't interested in the PPS M2 simply because I would have to buy new mags. It also came out after I already bought my two CCPs.
Yes there have been problems with the CCP and none with the PPS.
All I can do is talk about my sample of two. I love them. My wife likes the CCP because it is easier for her to rack.
Another advantage for the PPS is availability of night sights. None so far for the CCP.
James
I've only shot one CCP and the trigger was terrible and the recoil was severe with SD ammo. My PPS is a much better firearm, smoother trigger and better recoil characteristics.
I don't understand Walther, they knock it out of the park with PPQ and PPS, then make the CCP and PPX.
I've only shot one CCP and the trigger was terrible and the recoil was severe with SD ammo. My PPS is a much better firearm, smoother trigger and better recoil characteristics.
I don't understand Walther, they knock it out of the park with PPQ and PPS, then make the CCP and PPX.
All I can say is that is not my experience.
To the OP, I would suggest you find a friend or gun range that has both to rent and try them. Best of luck in your search.
The CCP is not made by Walther, in the same way that the Mosquito is not made by Sig. Quality wise, there is no comparison between the PPS and CCP.
I'd also suggest checking the reviews and comments on the CCP section of the Walther forum.
The CCP is not made by Walther, in the same way that the Mosquito is not made by Sig. Quality wise, there is no comparison between the PPS and CCP.
I'd also suggest checking the reviews and comments on the CCP section of the Walther forum.
Not 100% accurate. There's a thread here: http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ccp/36790-ccp-made-umarex.html
Statement: " Just because it has Arnsburg proofs. Doesn't mean that it was manufactured my Umarex. According to Walther it has it's own area in the Umarex complex and uses their own Walther workers, not Umarex's."
I made a few posts in that thread back when it was active.
Umarex owns Walther, and they put the Walther banner on pistols that come out of the Umarex plant in Arnsberg, but there is no way that I would compare them to the Walther products coming out of the Walther plant in Ulm. They are just in a different league as far as I'm concerned.
The P22, G22, SP22, and PK380, have all had some pretty bad issues. I wouldn't expect much better from the CCP.
donlapalma
08-05-16, 17:36
One of my good buddies bought a CCP (late 2015) and that thing has been nothing but a headache for him. He sent it back for warranty work at least four times. I've shot it personally and witnessed / experienced the multiple stoppages on every range trip that we went on. From the very first magazine, there were stovepipes, double feeds, failure-to-extract, failure-to-eject, failures to return to battery, etc. etc. It literally had every stoppage imaginable. We tried everything too. Different shooters, varied the ammo, tracked magazines, clean, lube, inspection, etc.
Oddly enough, and after the last trip back to Walther, it has run for about 200 rounds with no stoppages. Nothing earth-shattering but still a stark contrast to the every-other-round rate of failure before. The warranty guys were never clear about what issues they found or what they did but it seems that they may have fixed the problem. Nonetheless, my friend was not happy with the purchase and regretted it badly. Based on this first-hand experience, I would never recommend this gun to anybody for any reason.
And that's the way it's going to be - you will have people that hate the CCP because they've had issues and then you'll have people like me that love it.
Only you can decide - YOURSELF - by trying.
The volume of Internet complaining is significantly louder for the CCP than for ANY Ulm-made Walther.
BatteryOperated
08-06-16, 11:11
And that's the way it's going to be - you will have people that hate the CCP because they've had issues and then you'll have people like me that love it.
Only you can decide - YOURSELF - by trying.
It is one of those love vs hate relationships. It is probably in your best interests to rent one or borrow one to see if you like it. The CCP is like the Glock 43 in that regards, as some experienced Glock owners can shoot the 43 and others can not. The MAC channel had a video recently, and Tim from the channel actually preferred the CCP over the Glock 43 because he simply could not shoot the thing. If you have not already reviewed the video here is a link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PHh6iDKHa4
It is one of those love vs hate relationships. It is probably in your best interests to rent one or borrow one to see if you like it.
I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is functionality and reliability. Putting a hundred rounds or so through a rental CCP isn't going to tell you whether or not the one you buy will be one of the CCP's that works properly.
It's an odds thing. There appears to be a substantially higher percentage of CCPs that don't work compared to other Walther (or other brand) alternatives. If you buy one, the question apparently is "do you feel lucky?"
I've owned an Umarex HK MP5-22 for a few years and I have nothing bad to say about it, so my only experience with Umarex is good. You'll find plenty of other that say the same for this model. So the Umarex name doesn't scare me.
But so far I've read a LOT of issues with the CCPs. I hope they get sorted out as it seems to be a good design, but my PPS M1 (mfg 2009) has never failed to fire in 2k rounds.
I have three single stack 9mms, the PPS, and this year I picked up a Ruger LC9S and a Shield 9mm. The Shield seems to be just as good as the PPS in terms of trigger feel, accuracy & reliability. The only issue I've had with the Ruger is the front sight came loose. But the forums have a lot more reported issues with the LC9S over the Shield. And issues with loose sights go back 4 or 5 years. So as much as like my other Ruger pistols I'm wondering if this LC9S is made as well as my Shield & PPS.
I bought a CCP and just love the gun. Fit, feel, size and 8 round mags. Now they are a bit ammo picky and the do get hot after a bit of shooting but these guns are tack drivers. I would buy another without hesitation.
I bought a CCP and just love the gun. Fit, feel, size and 8 round mags. Now they are a bit ammo picky and the do get hot after a bit of shooting but these guns are tack drivers. I would buy another without hesitation.
Damning with faint praise...
Hmac, no not really. The gun just likes hotter ammo. These are a decent pistols and I love the one I carry. The CCP is one of the most accurate pistols around. It's a tack driver without a doubt. Anyway I like it. Quite a few people are trashing the gun who have either never owned one or fired one. Either because of the take down, which is no where near as bad as people make it out to be, or just because it's made by Umerex. I take my gun down with a glock tool and have no issues with that. My pistol has a very smooth trigger and the reset is not that bad. I don't really care one way or another about selling the gun but please don't trash it if you never shot or owned one, on someone else's issues. I like the gun and it works for me and I own many pistols I could use instead.
I have never trashed the CCP. I have only observed that other people have trashed the CCP at a far greater rate than most other handguns, and even on that great bastion of Walther fanboyism...Waltherforums.com
As you say:
it gets hot
it is difficult to take down
it's finicky about ammo
it's made by Umarex
Antway, I don't see a need for "tack driving" accuracy in a defensive, concealed carry handgun. For such a pistol to fulfill its accuracy role, it needs to be able to put rounds consistently into an 8 inch circle at 7 yards. What competent concealed carry pistol won't do that? On the other hand, a defensive pistol also needs to be utterly reliable and NOT finicky about ammo. Why would anyone prize "tack driving accuracy" over functionality and reliability for gun that they are mainly going to rely on to protect their life from 21 feet or less?
Hmac those are all valid points and I do agree with them, but any handgun can have issues they are mechanical devices made by humans. As for the CCP, it's not a bad pistol. I can tell you I have owned a ton of handguns in my life and have had issues with guns people adore. Many have had very problematic issues far worse than getting hot after 50 rounds or the process of taking down a pistol for cleaning. I won't get into the many handguns that I have had returned to their companies and been issued a new handgun because they were unrepairable. As for accuracy the more the better, it hits where I point it. By the way the statement I made was not directed at you about people trashing the gun without ever owning one. It was what I have seen too many times on the net where a few people have had issues with guns and trash them, way too many follow suit without ever owning the gun or ever shooting one. This gun does work and many owners are surprised by the trash talk, because their pistols work fine. All handguns can be finicky about ammo and some very respectable handguns to boot.
Never owned a CCP, but have a PPS "Classic". I give it 4 Fs: Flat, Featherweight, Flawless, Fightstopper.
Never owned a CCP, but have a PPS "Classic". I give it 4 Fs: Flat, Featherweight, Flawless, Fightstopper.
I have both the PPS Classic and the PPS M2. My wife has had her PPS for 4 years. IMHO, that's a fantastic concealed carry handgun. It's been utterly reliable and feeds any ammo I've ever tried to shoot with it. No fininckyness there.
.46caliber
08-21-16, 19:16
Shot one of each at the same session. I'd go PPS. I have a paddle PPQ and I like the paddles. The CCP has the nice ergos like the PPQ, but that's about the only thing it's got going for it. The other differences between the two, for my hands at least, were negligible.
Really shoddy track record and picky on ammo? Those two alone absolutely disqualify it as a carry piece in my book.
The CCP......Here's been my experience with it over the past few months...
Initially, I wasn't very impressed upon the CCP's release, so as usual, I decided to wait a couple of years to monitor for the teething problems that will invariably accompany all new designs ( just look at the SIG 320 problems some LEAs are having, I'm certain that these too will be sorted out soon)
Near perfect ergos, excellent accuracy (this little pistol shoots rings around my issue S&W MP40) and zero malfunctions. This pistol has thus far, more than lived up to the Walther banner. I've had absolutely no buyers remorse what so ever.
The pistol has been 100% reliable with the following: S&B's ball and JHP. Federal's 124gr American Eagle ball, 115 BP jhp, xm9001 115 jhp, 9MS 147 jhp, Win. 147gr jhp, Aguila 115 & 124 ball, Fioochi 115 ball and 115 jhp and Black Hills 115 EXP jhp (my SD load for this pistol).
The barrel and piston housing are made of stainless steel. The barrel has polygonal rifling. This assembly is very stout and well engineered for long life and durability. The trigger assembly and it's relation with the sear assembly group is cave man simple and very durable. The polymer frame is extremely rigid and of the same high quality as the PPQ series. This pistol is deceptively heavier than one would think just by looking at it without picking it up. Once it's in the hand, one can take note of the heft and stout construction with a considerable top heaviness. When a fully loaded magazine is in place the pistol has a solidity to it that I find comforting.
The trigger is a long but smooth DAO type set-up, with a reset like a DA revolver. Pull weight one this example is approx. 5.75 lbs. I find it interesting that when dry firing it, one can take note of every imperfection in it's travel, however, it has a perfectly crisp break. When actually firing it, the trigger's long travel and reset goes unnoticed and fast, accurate hammered pairs and 3-5 shot strings at 3,5 and 7m are effortlessly accomplished, accurate controlled pairs from 7m out to 25m are just as easily performed.
The magazines are of stainless steel with a highly polished stainless steel follower. The magazine is an unusual unit as it is not welded together. The magazine "tube" comprises three side of the magazine body, while the magazine spine is a separate piece. The "tube" has 24 rectangular holes (12 on each side) on the rear corners. The spine has corresponding tabs that lock the restb of the magazine into place....very odd and unconventional, but very strong....no problems with the set-up thus far....
The disassembly process......Much over-blown, by clowns on the internet. It's not at all very difficult. The CCP can be disassembled in under 30 seconds with the supplied tool, or in my experience a roll pin punch, car/house key or even a ball-point pen and reassembled w/o any tools, just a ring finger in approx: 15 seconds....If you can not easily accomplish the CCP's take-down then you're the problem, not the CCP and you probably have no business handling any firearm if you're that spastic.
Now for the full view.....Is the pistol perfect? Hell no, of course not. I've not found the perfect pistol yet...What do I not like about it?
The plastic sights.....While the sight picture is excellent with a very wide rear sight notch that allows a lot off light to surround the front sight, I'm old enough to be set in my belief that iron sights should be iron. Plastic sights just gripe my ass. It's like having vinyl seats in a Range Rover.
The manual thumb safety...While I like the location of it, I think there should be a textured surface to it and a more positive tactile click to it when sweeping it off or on....It's kind of the same mush as a Mk.3 BHP.
The slide stop/release...It is in just the right place to be annoying and protrudes just enough to be inadvertently pressed down while shooting in a two hand hold that the slide sometimes goes forward on an empty magazine. However to be fair, this is more of a training consideration to overcome than anything else and is quickly overcome in the first couple of range sessions.
In closing, I think this pistol has often been given a raw deal by those who, rather than spend time with it and perform their due diligence in regards to exploring this pistol, instead take the lazy way out and just parrot others who most likely haven't had any direct experience with it either.....
I'm old enough to remember the very same happening way back with both the M9 and "them there plastic thangs" made in Austria. (As the Glocks were first referred to back in the '80's). It wasn't until the various celebrity gun scribes and celebrity trainers du jour gave the Glocks and M9 their exalted stamps of approval that all the gun lemmings flocked towards them and began to flap about in fawning approval.
If one is in the market for a single stack 9mm compact EDC pistol, take as close a look at the CCP, as you would the other excellent options out there, you might just find yourself being pleasantly surprised, by what you end up with. I was.
Some additional thoughts concerning the CCP.
The so-called soft coil "less felt recoil"...Nope, not at all. The recoil on this reminds me of the snappy, fixed barrel blowback recoil of the PM Makarov & the CZ-82. Yet while snappy, it is very smooth in cycling. Of the pistols in the CCP category, I believe the M&P shield is the softest recoiling, while the CCP and the PPS Classic are perhaps the most accurate in the category.
Is it easier to rack? Yes, but this was never a consideration for me when purchasing the CCP, though I found that it makes for very positive one-handed slide manipulation.
One very odd feature of the CCP is that it has no slide rails, nor frame rails upon which the slide reciprocates, none whatsoever....Instead the slide moves along the barrel and the rear takedown/ striker plate assembly....Odd, very Odd, but it works very well, very smooth. This pistol has no reason to be as stunningly accurate as it is...Most peculiar.
Two final features I couldn't care less for is the silly accessory rail on the dust cover and the squared-off/recurved front of the trigger guard...I really wish the gun industry would stop placing rails on compact EDC pistols This is where S&W, Glock and Walther got it right on the Shield, the G43 and on the PPS M2, All other manufacturers should follow suit.
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