View Full Version : Best DI BCG?
Just pulled an AIMSurplus NIB BCG from my upper to install a KNS perma pin and noticed the coating was chipping and bubbled. That obviously ain't going to cut it. Only has 5-600 rounds on it too. Specs appear equal to any BCG I know of but I won't be buying anymore with that coating. I like the NIB concept but are there treatments which will not flake as claimed with their EXO BCG? I've heard nitrided BCG's are good, but I've also heard the process ruins the heat treatment on the bolt and therefore actually weakens it? I question if the hardened surface will create wear in the upper as well? Any feedback on the Gemtech? Anyway, school me.
TacticalMark
08-05-16, 20:49
Phosphate coating Colt, LMT or BCM. NP3 Sionics would be the only coating I would consider using.
Phosphate coating Colt, LMT or BCM. NP3 Sionics would be the only coating I would consider using.
Sounds like someone messed up what they were doing with ops bcg. Nib should will not chip or peel if done correctly... but this.
I'd consider chrome also, but I'd prefer these two.
BCGs might've been discussed here (https://www.google.com/search?biw=320&bih=232&ei=-0OlV_ncIISumQGlpIWAAg&q=best+bcg%2C+site%3Am4carbine.net&oq=best+bcg%2C+site%3Am4carbine.net&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.12...88939.90018.0.91684.5.5.0.0.0.0.1365.2352.0j2j0j2j7-1.5.0....0...1c..64.mobile-gws-serp..2.0.0.FUMAVet2KZ4) once or twice...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?153697-Best-mil-spec-BCG-for-the-money
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?171133-While-the-going-is-good-best-BCG-bang-for-the-buck
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?148825-What-s-the-best-Bolt-Carrier-Group
Has to be a bad job. It even left my fingers prints in carbon on the carrier. Prints won't clean off either.
wildcard600
08-05-16, 21:07
Phosphate coating Colt, LMT or BCM. NP3 Sionics would be the only coating I would consider using.
This ^
Also add Centurion and Sons of Liberty Gun Works.
It's 2016, but thanks.
...and yet you'll find the answers haven't changed.
brushy bill
08-05-16, 21:51
This ^
Also add Centurion and Sons of Liberty Gun Works.
And the Toolcraft 1B1B6 marked carrier with the carpenter 158 bolt.
ONE thing I have learned from other people and on my own "trying to save money on BCG", dont try to save money on a BCG, buy from a reputable outfit, that doesnt skimp on quality.
Phosphate coating Colt, LMT or BCM. NP3 Sionics would be the only coating I would consider using.
^This.. I have BCM, LMT, DD and Noveske bcg's all are good to go.. I find $40-$60 extra for a known quality BCG as opposed to spending $100-$120 on something like the AIM bcg to be a gamble I'm not willing to take.
It's a DD S2W barrel so may grab a DD. I've been hung up on the idea of super slick carriers. AIM claims their EXO NIB BCG isn't even a coating and actually becomes a part of the metal. Then when you read the "lifetime warranty" it excludes the finish due to use. Thanks for the info. May get a Sionics if I do anymore builds. "If",LOL...
Curious why you feel the need for a slick carrier when a standard phospate one works perfectly fine. Anyway, np3 is about as slick as it gets so the Sionic might be worth a look. Robar also offers carriers in np3 and np3+
Better is better even when less than still works. I know it's one solution some agencies have moved towards to improve reliability. Or so the sales pitch goes.
LMT Enhanced worth $300? JP uses the LMT Enhanced carrier and a 9310 bolt for a bit less.
I've found the standard mil spec like the ones listed above to be perfectly fine. I've ran them all suppressed shooting crap ammo for hundreds of rounds without needing to add more lube to make the gun function so I personally don't see the need for the extra slick coatings to "improve reliability". If you lube a milspec BCG properly it will function just fine for a long time.
Again its not my gun so to each their own but the known quality brands that boatloads of people also swear by will get my vote every single time.
ETA... Yes the enhanced one is pretty expensive however I own the standard F/A BCG and I picked mine up for about $175 5 years ago. Looking now though I see them everywhere for $190-215.. Not entirely sure why they's 40+ dollars more expensive than the others.
Mine has probably 7000 rounds or more on it as it came from the factory and is still chugging along.
And not much has changed.
It's 2016, but thanks.
ETA... Yes the enhanced one is pretty expensive however I own the standard F/A BCG and I picked mine up for about $175 5 years ago. Looking now though I see them everywhere for $190-215.. Not entirely sure why they's 40+ dollars more expensive than the others.
Mine has probably 7000 rounds or more on it as it came from the factory and is still chugging along.
$175 on vtsupply. I might get the JP which uses LMT carrier with additional upgrades. Unexpected purchase.
Defaultmp3
08-06-16, 02:03
$175 on vtsupply. I might get the JP which uses LMT carrier with additional upgrades. Unexpected purchase.Where do you see JP using LMT E-carriers? JP makes their own carriers, AFAIK. Valhalla Tactical Supply is assembling an LMT E-carrier with a JP Enhanced Bolt, but it's not a JP product, it's VTS creating a Franken-product.
And it's 275 bucks... You can find the full LMT enhanced for around that price with a little effort which I would buy way before a Franken BCG.
With that said I'd still go with a quality mil spec BCG and have enough left over to scoop up a few hundred rounds of ammo.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like my azimuth qpq bcg. Runs well even dry. Wolf, suppressed, 1500 rounds, lubed initially with mpro7 lpx and dry and filthy on the last day. Chugged along great.
It's a DD S2W barrel so may grab a DD. I've been hung up on the idea of super slick carriers. AIM claims their EXO NIB BCG isn't even a coating and actually becomes a part of the metal. Then when you read the "lifetime warranty" it excludes the finish due to use. Thanks for the info. May get a Sionics if I do anymore builds. "If",LOL...
That's a load of crap. It's an electroless nickel-boron alloy plating. It's a coating with a metallic bond to the substrate. Your bcg never formed that bond.
Don't get caught up in the slickness hype. If you want a plated bcg, the np3 coating looks much better on paper sionics has great specs and reputation.
I have 2 LMT Enhanced BCG's in weapons and all the rest of mine have a USGI-spec bolt (Colt, BCM, DD, Rock Island) I've sent to Metaloy for hard chroming. I'm not worried about "slickness", mainly ease of cleaning. And yeah, I had a nice conversation with the guy who runs Metaloy about hydrogen embrittlement and he is well aware of it; in fact, he seemed to infer that in this day and age anyone doing hard chrome and not addressing that issue is waaayyy behind the curve and shouldn't be doing it at all!
I have 2 LMT Enhanced BCG's in weapons and all the rest of mine have a USGI-spec bolt (Colt, BCM, DD, Rock Island) I've sent to Metaloy for hard chroming. I'm not worried about "slickness", mainly ease of cleaning. And yeah, I had a nice conversation with the guy who runs Metaloy about hydrogen embrittlement and he is well aware of it; in fact, he seemed to infer that in this day and age anyone doing hard chrome and not addressing that issue is waaayyy behind the curve and shouldn't be doing it at all!
He is correct. I had a long talk with Youngs about it a few years ago.
He is correct. I had a long talk with Youngs about it a few years ago.
He explained it to me and the key (working off memory here) is only allowing it to cool within a certain window before they do the next step. My vague explanation here is devoid of the details because I don't remember but I do recall that cooling within a certain period of time thing.
I normally run standard DD, Colt, or LMT bcg in my carbines and have had no problems. However, I did recently drop an AIM bcg into my trunk/beater carbine and it has roughly the same round count on it. I recognize that 500-600 rounds is a measure of nothing, but thus far I am not seeing the same issue as the OP. I am not singing any praises for the AIM bcg, as I know that it is not top-notch equipment, but it sounds like it might be a QA issue (I will definitely be keeping a closer eye on mine).
Where do you see JP using LMT E-carriers? JP makes their own carriers, AFAIK. Valhalla Tactical Supply is assembling an LMT E-carrier with a JP Enhanced Bolt, but it's not a JP product, it's VTS creating a Franken-product.
I didn't see where they disclosed it being their own creation, but that's fine with me. I settled on WMD.
I normally run standard DD, Colt, or LMT bcg in my carbines and have had no problems. However, I did recently drop an AIM bcg into my trunk/beater carbine and it has roughly the same round count on it. I recognize that 500-600 rounds is a measure of nothing, but thus far I am not seeing the same issue as the OP. I am not singing any praises for the AIM bcg, as I know that it is not top-notch equipment, but it sounds like it might be a QA issue (I will definitely be keeping a closer eye on mine).
The second one I have hasn't had the same issues. Definitely a QC issue. Just wish they backed up the product. Imo the quality is even better than milspec otherwise. I greatly prefer the steel used in their parts, the price is due to branding imo, and slickness does indeed matter imo. My first 2 AR's were Colt 6940's and the smooth operation with the NIB BCG is noticably better. Could make the difference in preventing a failure. Never had I failure with either Colt however.
I have 2 LMT Enhanced BCG's in weapons and all the rest of mine have a USGI-spec bolt (Colt, BCM, DD, Rock Island) I've sent to Metaloy for hard chroming. I'm not worried about "slickness", mainly ease of cleaning. And yeah, I had a nice conversation with the guy who runs Metaloy about hydrogen embrittlement and he is well aware of it; in fact, he seemed to infer that in this day and age anyone doing hard chrome and not addressing that issue is waaayyy behind the curve and shouldn't be doing it at all!
"hydrogen embrittlement"? Time for a google seach.
If you have a carbine gas system and a 14.5" or longer barrel I think the LMT enhanced BCG is the best.
Other wise I like the Young Manufactoring chrome BCG. I think the chrome coating is a worth while upgrade from a cleaning perspective. Buy it from someplace like Rainier arms who stake them properly though
I'm using an older LMT Enhanced carrier with a standard bolt in an AR with a 10.5 inch barrel. The enhanced carrier is more efficient than the standard carrierb as it will run with less gas. Using an adjustable gas block, the standard carrier needs one click more gas to run
The second one I have hasn't had the same issues. Definitely a QC issue. Just wish they backed up the product. Imo the quality is even better than milspec otherwise. I greatly prefer the steel used in their parts, the price is due to branding imo, and slickness does indeed matter imo. My first 2 AR's were Colt 6940's and the smooth operation with the NIB BCG is noticably better. Could make the difference in preventing a failure. Never had I failure with either Colt however.
The carrier only rides on 4 thin rails that contact the inside of upper receiver, the type of coating ain't going to really make a difference on how slick the carrier feels when moving inside the upper.
What do you guys think of the Salient Arms BCG? It's rather expensive at $350 but has one piece gas key BCG and lifetime warranty with a Titanium nitride (TiN) coating.
https://www.salientarmsinternational.com/products/sai-ar15-bcg
wildcard600
08-06-16, 13:07
What do you guys think of the Salient Arms BCG? It's rather expensive at $350 but has one piece gas key BCG and lifetime warranty with a Titanium nitride (TiN) coating.
https://www.salientarmsinternational.com/products/sai-ar15-bcg
Makes your AR ultra reliable and will even feed rounds out of the magazine backwards. 160,000 rounds without cleaning or lube. Also makes any AR sub 1/2 quarter of a 64th MOA.
Serious users have been known to install two at a time in each rifle.
Makes your AR ultra reliable and will even feed rounds out of the magazine backwards. 160,000 rounds without cleaning or lube. Also makes any AR sub 1/2 quarter of a 64th MOA.
Serious users have been known to install two at a time in each rifle.
LOL If it can do all that I'm in!
I would jump on it. Let us know what happens when a primer gets blown out and inside the key.
What do you guys think of the Salient Arms BCG? It's rather expensive at $350 but has one piece gas key BCG and lifetime warranty with a Titanium nitride (TiN) coating.
https://www.salientarmsinternational.com/products/sai-ar15-bcg
What do you guys think of the Salient Arms BCG? It's rather expensive at $350 but has one piece gas key BCG and lifetime warranty with a Titanium nitride (TiN) coating.
https://www.salientarmsinternational.com/products/sai-ar15-bcg
I think that if I were to go with a coating other than the standard mag-phosphate, it'd be NP3. Compared to NiB, it wears better, can be a little slicker, slightly easier to clean, and isn't quite as hard (my thought on the hardness is that it wouldn't cause as much wear on an upper).
If I were to get into one of the more "boutique" coatings/brands, I'd probably go with one of these.
http://www.crypticcoatings.com/bolt-carrier-group-coatings/
They start with a well made traditional bolt and carrier, Toolcraft, and then offer a variety of choices for coatings. It's more than just the aesthetics, each color has its own unique properties/specs. They also offer a lifetime warranty, and the most expensive model is still about $100 less than the Salient.
Every couple months I get the itch to pick up and NP3 or Cryptic BCG, but never end up talking myself into it. It always comes down to, "what problem am I actually solving by replacing one of my current mag-phosphate BCGs?" I run Toolcrafts in my ARs, never had an issue with function or cleaning, and none are far enough along in round count to warrarant a total replacement. I do have a build that just needs a couple more items; one of which is a BCG. So, I'll probably end up with my first NP3 coated for that rifle. But, for an existing rifle with a perfectly functional BCG, that money is better spent on ammo, training, or a different accessory that I actually need.
I would jump on it. Let us know what happens when a primer gets blown out and inside the key.
Those one piece designs are a recipe for disaster as IG has point out. Ive personally seen at least 5 primers inside keys. The craziest one was the time it literally went in soo straight, you couldnt see it with a flashlight.
I think that if I were to go with a coating other than the standard mag-phosphate, it'd be NP3. Compared to NiB, it wears better, can be a little slicker, slightly easier to clean, and isn't quite as hard (my thought on the hardness is that it wouldn't cause as much wear on an upper).
If I were to get into one of the more "boutique" coatings/brands, I'd probably go with one of these.
http://www.crypticcoatings.com/bolt-carrier-group-coatings/
They start with a well made traditional bolt and carrier, Toolcraft, and then offer a variety of choices for coatings. It's more than just the aesthetics, each color has its own unique properties/specs. They also offer a lifetime warranty, and the most expensive model is still about $100 less than the Salient.
Every couple months I get the itch to pick up and NP3 or Cryptic BCG, but never end up talking myself into it. It always comes down to, "what problem am I actually solving by replacing one of my current mag-phosphate BCGs?" I run Toolcrafts in my ARs, never had an issue with function or cleaning, and none are far enough along in round count to warrarant a total replacement. I do have a build that just needs a couple more items; one of which is a BCG. So, I'll probably end up with my first NP3 coated for that rifle. But, for an existing rifle with a perfectly functional BCG, that money is better spent on ammo, training, or a different accessory that I actually need.
I'm not in the market for a BCG but curious as to what's out there and people's opinions. Thanks for the sound advice!
Those one piece designs are a recipe for disaster as IG has point out. Ive personally seen at least 5 primers inside keys. The craziest one was the time it literally went in soo straight, you couldnt see it with a flashlight.
I initially thought a one piece gas key BCG was the way to go until you guys brought up the stuck primer problem. Learn something new every day, thanks!
I think that if I were to go with a coating other than the standard mag-phosphate, it'd be NP3. Compared to NiB, it wears better, can be a little slicker, slightly easier to clean, and isn't quite as hard (my thought on the hardness is that it wouldn't cause as much wear on an upper).
If I were to get into one of the more "boutique" coatings/brands, I'd probably go with one of these.
http://www.crypticcoatings.com/bolt-carrier-group-coatings/
They start with a well made traditional bolt and carrier, Toolcraft, and then offer a variety of choices for coatings. It's more than just the aesthetics, each color has its own unique properties/specs. They also offer a lifetime warranty, and the most expensive model is still about $100 less than the Salient.
Every couple months I get the itch to pick up and NP3 or Cryptic BCG, but never end up talking myself into it. It always comes down to, "what problem am I actually solving by replacing one of my current mag-phosphate BCGs?" I run Toolcrafts in my ARs, never had an issue with function or cleaning, and none are far enough along in round count to warrarant a total replacement. I do have a build that just needs a couple more items; one of which is a BCG. So, I'll probably end up with my first NP3 coated for that rifle. But, for an existing rifle with a perfectly functional BCG, that money is better spent on ammo, training, or a different accessory that I actually need.
Had those on my build list for awhile.
The carrier only rides on 4 thin rails that contact the inside of upper receiver, the type of coating ain't going to really make a difference on how slick the carrier feels when moving inside the upper.
Wipe your ass with just one thin strip of sand paper instead of angel soft and see if smoothness makes a difference.
If you have a carbine gas system and a 14.5" or longer barrel I think the LMT enhanced BCG is the best.
Other wise I like the Young Manufactoring chrome BCG. I think the chrome coating is a worth while upgrade from a cleaning perspective. Buy it from someplace like Rainier arms who stake them properly though
I was not happy with the machining of mine a year or two ago. Was rough compared to others.
dirkmagurk
08-06-16, 19:13
You can't go wrong with a BCM and they're easily available right now.
Wipe your ass with just one thin strip of sand paper instead of angel soft and see if smoothness makes a difference.
Only makes a difference if your wiping your butt with the BCG.
I've got a Fail Zero carrier with some sort of fancy coating or other and it ran a little bit smoother than my phosphate coated carrier. Until I did a littl polishing on the carrier rails. Now, I can't tell the difference
wildcard600
08-06-16, 20:08
Wipe your ass with just one thin strip of sand paper instead of angel soft and see if smoothness makes a difference.
You had your bunghole hard coat anodized ?
You had your bunghole hard coat anodized ?
Cost too much. I just shave it when it gets too rough.
Wipe your ass with just one thin strip of sand paper instead of angel soft and see if smoothness makes a difference.
Cute, why don't you rub your asshole with your chipped and bubbled NiB carrier and let us know how smooth that is.
SeriousStudent
08-06-16, 23:10
Enough.
LaserTag, you are new here. You might want to do a little more reading, and lay off the smartass remarks.
We have a LOT of threads already on BCG's, you should read those.
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