View Full Version : I shoot my M&P Shield 9mm terrible
Granted..............I am not the best pistol shooter in the world.........far from it. But with my 1911's (all in 45acp, all 5" guns) and my other striker fired polymer 9mm (Ruger SR9) I can make one ragged hole at 10 yards with cheap ball ammo, or my plinking grade handloads.
At 10 yards with the Shield, I can keep them on paper...........but groups are more like "patterns"...........when I do buckle down and get it grouping halfway decent, I get the old "low and left" problem normally associated with jerking the trigger.............but I am not (or at least I don't think I am, as I don't have this problem with the other guns).
The gun has been 100% reliable, it eat's everything I feed it, the trigger feels fine to me ( I like the SR9 trigger better), recoil is not an issue, it fits my hand well, and is comfortable to carry.
I really want to like this gun, but so far I can't shoot it worth a darn. I probably don't practice with it as much as I should, as I get frustrated with my performance with it often, and just pick up something else I have brought along and go about shooting that with much more success.
Has anyone else struggled with their Shield or other similar smallish 9mm's? Is it me? Is it the gun? Is there a "learning curve" with these small pistols that I am just not picking up on yet?
Granted..............I am not the best pistol shooter in the world.........far from it. But with my 1911's (all in 45acp, all 5" guns) and my other striker fired polymer 9mm (Ruger SR9) I can make one ragged hole at 10 yards with cheap ball ammo, or my plinking grade handloads.
At 10 yards with the Shield, I can keep them on paper...........but groups are more like "patterns"...........when I do buckle down and get it grouping halfway decent, I get the old "low and left" problem normally associated with jerking the trigger.............but I am not (or at least I don't think I am, as I don't have this problem with the other guns).
The gun has been 100% reliable, it eat's everything I feed it, the trigger feels fine to me ( I like the SR9 trigger better), recoil is not an issue, it fits my hand well, and is comfortable to carry.
I really want to like this gun, but so far I can't shoot it worth a darn. I probably don't practice with it as much as I should, as I get frustrated with my performance with it often, and just pick up something else I have brought along and go about shooting that with much more success.
Has anyone else struggled with their Shield or other similar smallish 9mm's? Is it me? Is it the gun? Is there a "learning curve" with these small pistols that I am just not picking up on yet?
I wish I could give you some advice, but all I can tell you is that I also really struggle with sub-compact single stacks. Hopefully somebody can drop some good hints for the both of us.
brushy bill
08-06-16, 22:05
I'm not a particularly gifted shooter, but I found my Shield (for what it is) much more accurate than I'd expected. Small guns are not the easiest to shoot. Might be an expectations adjustment issue, may want to have a more experienced / capable shooter try it as well, dunno. I was more impressed with the Shield than my M&P 9mm prior to barrel replacement. I guess we're all different.
I think certain guns just aren't easy to shoot for certain people, or at least require a lot more practice to shoot well. I have a Kahr pm9 that I just can't hit the broad side of a barn with. I know other people shoot the pm9 well, it just does not really work for me. I could probably get better with a lot of practice, but I'm unwilling to spend that much range time with it right now, I have other guns that are much easier for me to naturally shoot accurately with.
I hated the Shield for a variety of reasons, but accuracy was about what I expected. The Walther PPS that replaced however is amazingly accurate in my hands...same is true of the PPS M2 that I bought a few months ago. Superior to the Shield in every respect IMHO.
Have you shot the gun from a sandbag at 25 yards? If it group poorly from a sandbag, it's probably the gun.
RAM Engineer
08-07-16, 07:42
Have someone else of known skill shoot it.
For the 1000th times, I've been telling people this. I've read many times people saying that this gun, that gun is inaccurate. They failed to describe from what position and distance they were shooting. Most people, myself included, tend to shoot low left while standing and shooting under timed condition. But when shooting from a bench or standing still and not timed, the groups are just fine, dead on center and good group.
So back to the original poster and your Shield. Find a stable platform, i.e. a bench, car hood, pick up truck bed, anything, and rest your arm/hand on that object. It wouldn't hurt if the hand that's holding the gun is rested on some soft padded object, i.e. shooting bag, sand bag, etc. From a known distance, 10 yards or 15 yards, shoot at a bullseye or some other sighting in type of target. A target with a definite aiming point, preferably a small high visible center (1" is the best). Take your freaking time, this is not a race to finish. Hold the perfect sight picture and press the trigger straight back. Treat the trigger as the eye drop bottle and you're trying to produce one drop for each trigger press. Shoot 5 shots or more to produce a group, I prefer 5 to 7. Don't worry about watching where your shots during the group shooting. Aim at the same spot on the target and finish your group. Then look at your target. If you're not satisfied, shoot another clean target. Then you will know where your got and sights are shooting.
The Shield itself is an accurate pistol, but with the short barrel and smallish gun it's not easy to shoot accurately under speed. It can be done if the trigger press is consistent. A couple years ago, I and a friend shot an entire day of Ken Hackathorn pistol class with the little gun and we were very happy with the gun. We have observed many people doing equally well in a recent Ken Hackathorn BUG class with their Glock 43. Little guns are not easy to shoot but with proper training and lots of practice, they will get the job done with the bigger/full size guns are not available.
when I first got my Shield 9, I could not keep it in the 1" circle dot drill at 3 yds.
I am an LEO and a competitive handgun shooter with an emphasis on marksmanship.
I paid too much for it (because I did not want to wait for the LE versions at a lower price) and thought about getting rid of it, but the entire serial number actually meant something to me.
My trigger break was a horrendous 9lbs. the OT after the "break" was going from 9lbs to nothing and it caused me to moved the sights/the gun during follow through.
With great difficulty (because I did not want to spend the money), I purchased an Apex Tactical trigger kit and my trigger breaks at a very clean 6lbs.
Circle drills returned and quite pleased with my Shield. Its a keeper for sure. All my co-workers who shoot it like it.
Fundamentally the smaller the gun the harder it will be to shoot well. This is why in the old days cops issued snub nosed revolvers would often cheat on qualification day by shooting four inch guns.
For the 1000th times, I've been telling people this. I've read many times people saying that this gun, that gun is inaccurate. They failed to describe from what position and distance they were shooting. Most people, myself included, tend to shoot low left while standing and shooting under timed condition. But when shooting from a bench or standing still and not timed, the groups are just fine, dead on center and good group.
So back to the original poster and your Shield. Find a stable platform, i.e. a bench, car hood, pick up truck bed, anything, and rest your arm/hand on that object. It wouldn't hurt if the hand that's holding the gun is rested on some soft padded object, i.e. shooting bag, sand bag, etc. From a known distance, 10 yards or 15 yards, shoot at a bullseye or some other sighting in type of target. A target with a definite aiming point, preferably a small high visible center (1" is the best). Take your freaking time, this is not a race to finish. Hold the perfect sight picture and press the trigger straight back. Treat the trigger as the eye drop bottle and you're trying to produce one drop for each trigger press. Shoot 5 shots or more to produce a group, I prefer 5 to 7. Don't worry about watching where your shots during the group shooting. Aim at the same spot on the target and finish your group. Then look at your target. If you're not satisfied, shoot another clean target. Then you will know where your got and sights are shooting.
The Shield itself is an accurate pistol, but with the short barrel and smallish gun it's not easy to shoot accurately under speed. It can be done if the trigger press is consistent. A couple years ago, I and a friend shot an entire day of Ken Hackathorn pistol class with the little gun and we were very happy with the gun. We have observed many people doing equally well in a recent Ken Hackathorn BUG class with their Glock 43. Little guns are not easy to shoot but with proper training and lots of practice, they will get the job done with the bigger/full size guns are not available.
This is good advice and exactly how I shoot any new handgun. This process checks for true accuracy as well as establishes the point-of-aim/point-of-impact for that particular gun. It reduces the wobbly error of off-hand shooting.
However, sometimes it isn't technique. Even if one gun (or other widget) comes off the assembly line directly after another that doesn't mean it will be exactly like its predecessor. There can be some poor examples show up now and again, which my own Shield experience shows.
Although I had bought two previous M&P polymer strikers which were accurate, my experience with a new Shield last year was bad. Using the bench rested process at 10 yards that I always use with a new gun, my Shield was awful. It did not shoot groups, it shot patterns, as in shotgun patterns. The gun's grip was good with a great feeling in my hand and the trigger was very acceptable. It simply wouldn't shoot worth a hoot.
I tried it on four different range days with a variety of range and self defense ammo. I shot at 2" orange targets and didn't hit the target more than a couple of times in 350+ rounds. Even though I kept the sight picture and aim point the same for all shots the misses weren't consistent, but were scattered all over the place. My Kahr P9 would shoot the center out of the 2" target every time from the same solid rest and on the same range sessions. I had a guy shooting beside me also try it from the solid rest. Same results.
I know I probably just got a bad one and Smith would likely have fixed it had I returned it them. But, tired of the aggravation that two other handguns had just put me through, I just got rid of it.
In single stacks I now have my Kahr P9, Kahr CW380 and two Glock 43s. They all shoot great, including the tiny CW380 which has little real estate to hold on to. It was the Shield itself and not technique, grip, ammo or anything except the gun. Unfortunately everyone puts out a poor example occasionally. Fortunately it doesn't happen all that often with a quality brand like Smith & Wesson as I have owned more handguns by Smith over the decades than any other brand.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Shield, especially the newer PC example with slightly improved triggers, but that first one I bought was certainly a poor shooter.
OP, good luck with your Shield.
Inkslinger
08-07-16, 14:34
Low an left can also be pre ignition push, which is being amplified with a smaller gun. Try some ball and dummy with it and see if your getting movement.
multistage
08-08-16, 22:51
I wasn't very good with mine either. So I sold it.
It's a bit big for a pocket gun. And a bit small for a belt gun (to me).
Too bad. I've heard they are pretty good little guns.
SniperOverwatch
08-08-16, 23:15
I thought my Shield was just a bad shooter too. But it wasn't. I was.
I'm used to getting ragged hole groups from my G19 at 7-10yds and was getting 3" from the Shield. Tightened up the isometric tension (remember, it's a short little gun) and printed 5 shots touching.
It really demands a lot from your technique.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just slowed down and focused. Once I was getting good hits consistently, I took off with it very quickly. Once you "figure out" how the gun shoots, the learning curve isn't bad. Just be patient, bring the target closer if needed.
I kinda agree with multistage though. With the 8 round magazine its the same grip length as a Glock 19, so kinda pointless in my book. If I can't carry my 23, I'll throw my Bodyguard in my pocket.
Dry fire it for it like 1000 times.
In between mags, dry fire some more.
notorious_ar15
08-09-16, 17:54
The trigger on mine from the factory was pretty bad, and never 'broke in' ... then took the plunge and installed the full kit from APEX Tactical & their flat trigger = it is really nice. I am very happy with it now.
Have someone else of known skill shoot it.
Agreed, my best friend couldn't shoot his worth a darn. I could, but I'm a much more accomplished pistolero than he is and even he would readily admit that.
He got a real trigger job done on it, not just a replacement trigger kit. And NOW he can hit with it, has confidence in it ... and in himself. Makes it a win-win.
My shield was pretty accurate for me right out of the box. It always felt a little slick in my hands though and it forced me to really concentrate on my form. I put in an Apex striker block and that smoothed the takeup tremendously. I then added rubber Talon grips after hearing so many rave reviews. It was like night and day difference. I was instantly more accurate and didn't have to focus quite so hard on my form.
I fondled a Shield .45 today and the new grip texture was amazing. S&W should apply that texture to the entire M&P line.
What are your accuracy expectations for your compact pistol and at what speed? Do you have large or small hands?
At times you have to over grip a compact pistol with the strong hand. Make sure the drum sticks on your thumbs touch when you marry your support hand to the grip. A majority of the grip pressure should be applied to the front and back straps.
More often than not, I coach people shooting compact pistols to bury their trigger finger inside the trigger guard and shoot with the crease on the first distal joint touching the edge of the trigger face. If you find yourself shooting low left, but with reasonable accuracy, try moving your trigger finger higher on the trigger face.
It's tough to distance coach someone without pictures of their grip and trigger finger indexed on the face of the trigger. Perhaps you could post pictures of how you grip your Shield and manipulate the trigger.
I too have a Shield that I really couldn't shoot well, I was constantly pitching the shots way to the left. In my case I think it had something to do with the extremely narrow grip coupled with the gun's tendency to slide around in my hand a lot, I felt like I couldn't get a decent grip on it. I was going to buy some Talon Grips for it but the gun ended up developing reliability issues so I decided not to dump more money into it. Currently I'm planning on sending it back to S&W for service so I can at least say the factory went over it and either fixed something or found nothing wrong so I can sell the Shield with a clean conscience.
What are your accuracy expectations for your compact pistol and at what speed? Do you have large or small hands?
At times you have to over grip a compact pistol with the strong hand. Make sure the drum sticks on your thumbs touch when you marry your support hand to the grip. A majority of the grip pressure should be applied to the front and back straps.
More often than not, I coach people shooting compact pistols to bury their trigger finger inside the trigger guard and shoot with the crease on the first distal joint touching the edge of the trigger face. If you find yourself shooting low left, but with reasonable accuracy, try moving your trigger finger higher on the trigger face.
It's tough to distance coach someone without pictures of their grip and trigger finger indexed on the face of the trigger. Perhaps you could post pictures of how you grip your Shield and manipulate the trigger.
This is a valid point for sure. I found I was shooting my fs left due to too much finger on the trigger. I could see how one would put more finger into a compact trigger.
I shoot the shield quite well with size taken into account. I shot a fs better, but I shoot the shield much better than I thought I would. Fundamentals are huge with a subcompact due to the lack of forgiveness.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PMqtKDicDxaoxJ0d9nJ0AcE9NA2l25lV_fhwca9EI4-E0SrHd8H7JMol6vmIq3gzozjkmVlij5su0Q=w1920-h1200-rw-no
http://pistol-training.com/drills/dot-torture
Dot Torture is your friend. The above was shot with my Glock 43, when I bought that little sucker last summer I struggled with it. It still feels like a squirt gun (tiny gun, XL hands). This drill gives you a really good idea of what you do well and what needs more work.
Start at 3 yards and when you are getting 50/50 move back. Even though I dropped a strong hand shot (dot 5) I'm still happy I got all my weak hand hits from 4 yards.
With a Glock 17, Sig 226 or a 1911 I can clean this at 7 yards on a good day. Small guns are tricky but you can get there.
I did the apex thang and mine shoots fine for me. But for a small cc gun I don't need ragged hole accuracy to be happy. Because my snubbys have never seen a ragged hole. If I can hit center mass at 10 yards with my snubby in a hurry, I'm content. I expect much more out of this shield.
I also always carry and shoot with extension mag. Makes me betta.
PB
I don't think I've ever shot my Shield on paper. I loaded it up first mag and hit the plate rack...
I love shooting steel and that's where all my shooting takes place for my defensive guns. I'd really like a new Shield pro.
Odd, I'm a 1911 guy, and the Shield is not so far away from 1911 that I have trouble adjusting.
Mine shoots ok. I suggest dry firing over a rest to identify a better grip and trigger technique. Pull the trigger bang bang without praying over it. Then dry fire off hand the same way. Next shoot at a target with a large bullseye. Center the front sight on the bull. Do NOT look at individual shots. Sir, you just now shot your first good group.
The Apex package and trijicon HD sights made it an enjoyable pistol to shoot with confidence out to 15 yards. Nothing like a full size of course but I have no problem using it as my carry pistol during the summer.
Sidneyious
09-03-16, 20:41
Granted..............I am not the best pistol shooter in the world.........far from it. But with my 1911's (all in 45acp, all 5" guns) and my other striker fired polymer 9mm (Ruger SR9) I can make one ragged hole at 10 yards with cheap ball ammo, or my plinking grade handloads.
At 10 yards with the Shield, I can keep them on paper...........but groups are more like "patterns"...........when I do buckle down and get it grouping halfway decent, I get the old "low and left" problem normally associated with jerking the trigger.............but I am not (or at least I don't think I am, as I don't have this problem with the other guns).
The gun has been 100% reliable, it eat's everything I feed it, the trigger feels fine to me ( I like the SR9 trigger better), recoil is not an issue, it fits my hand well, and is comfortable to carry.
I really want to like this gun, but so far I can't shoot it worth a darn. I probably don't practice with it as much as I should, as I get frustrated with my performance with it often, and just pick up something else I have brought along and go about shooting that with much more success.
Has anyone else struggled with their Shield or other similar smallish 9mm's? Is it me? Is it the gun? Is there a "learning curve" with these small pistols that I am just not picking up on yet?
With my meager experience with the shield here is what I can say.
10y is very far for such a short barrel, we were using federal fmj 115 iirc and at 5y I had terrible groupings.
I'm a lefty so naturally they go right, the trigger is very meh and that IMO leads to poorer groupings.
More practice, remember a sub compact is for as close as possible.
ww2farmer, have you noticed a difference between magazines? I have a 40S&W Shield. My group sizes with the longer magazine are significantly smaller than those when shooting with the shorter magazine. Basically, the inability to get a good grip with my pinkie finger when using the shorter magazine allows the Shield to shift in my hand some. This causes the next shot to be off. I have the exact some issue with my 9mm Taurus 709 Slim. Try comparing your results with the long versus the short magazines and see if it makes a difference.
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