View Full Version : Saudi Arabia's new M1 tank shopping list
Includes 20 battle damage replacements. Are Saudis that skilled in operating these tanks?:
http://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/saudi_16-32.pdf
Why does Saudi Arabia need M1 tanks?
Why does Saudi Arabia need M1 tanks?
They have lots of money and we want it.
Sellign them stuff is a good way to get it.
They have lots of money and we want it.
Sellign them stuff is a good way to get it.
Yes, but I'd rather they be sold M4 Shermans.
It'll be easier for the A-10s and Apaches when the time comes
Yes, but I'd rather they be sold M4 Shermans.
It'll be easier for the A-10s and Apaches when the time comes
I would prefer us selling them used up M551 Sheridans. The Sherman M4 has too much American history associated with it to be sent overseas.
I would prefer us selling them used up M551 Sheridans. The Sherman M4 has too much American history associated with it to be sent overseas.
Correction noted
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-09-16, 14:31
I would prefer us selling them used up M551 Sheridans. The Sherman M4 has too much American history associated with it to be sent overseas.
Both are about equal when it comes to running over civilians. Are the specs set to put the transmissions in backwards for extra reverse gears?
Well them M1's inflatables that can fit atop their limos. At $10MM a pop that would generate some serious profit margin.
Both are about equal when it comes to running over civilians. Are the specs set to put the transmissions in backwards for extra reverse gears?
:laugh:
when I was at Atlantis in the Bahamas I met a couple from Saudi Arabia who lived in Holland but was migrating to Morocco. After a few day trips with them to other islands and dinners he told me that Saudi Arabia was going through a lot of unrest. He said that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE and Kuwait were full of people that hate there government because of the hypocrisy. Apparently there is too many western influence(money) in the area and there are 1 too many chrome plated Lamborghinis. He said tens of thousands of people in those areas have fled to other areas. Those who have left are mostly wealthy and have gone to Holland, England and other places because they expect a massive uprising in the area in the not too distant future. As he said it, the Sheiks have become prostitutes for the US and all these palaces and Bugatti's are all paid for by the US in exchange for oil and 99% of the population lives in poverty. Apparently the tell there people the the US is bad but the money is good which goes againt the Islamic coulture. Whithin 5-10 years those countries could look like Syria.
So maybe the purchase of M1's have something to do with future predictions and precautionary arrangements.
Yes, but I'd rather they be sold M4 Shermans.
It'll be easier for the A-10s and Apaches when the time comes
I would hope we're smart enough to not give them everything. I know ones we sold/gave Egypt had diesel engines.
Or we could just tell them to eff off and die......
We could do that.
Gotta pay off the Iranians somehow...
Gotta pay off the Iranians somehow...
You know what.....that really was like the modern day Iran-Contra to an extent and nobody gives a shit.
Yet when it was Reagan it was all hearings and "What did he know and when did he know it?" and everything else.
These quadruple standards make me want to drop kick a kitten into a kennel owned by Michael Vick
Yes, but I'd rather they be sold M4 Shermans.
It'll be easier for the A-10s and Apaches when the time comes
The model of the tank won't matter to them ;)
Saudi and Iran are enemies, Sunni vs Shiite, as a matter of fact they have been fighting the Iranian backed rebels in Yemen. Selling them more M1's is likely a good thing, wouldn't make any difference to an A10 which the Air Farce is dumping for the F35, don't know how that will do when it is ready to fight in about 15-20 years.
Germany wanted to buy several hundred Leopard 2A7 tanks from Germany, but the German Parliament evidently balked at the sale.
, wouldn't make any difference to an A10 which the Air Farce is dumping for the F35, don't know how that will do when it is ready to fight in about 15-20 years.
If I recall A10 stopped M1s in their tracks in the desert Storm friendly fire incidents.
Aren't there export packages for most of our weapons systems? The difference is in the electronics, technology etc... so we are not selling the best latest and greatest that we have.
Aren't there export packages for most of our weapons systems? The difference is in the electronics, technology etc... so we are not selling the best latest and greatest that we have.
Depends on who we sell to.
The F15 is an interesting example. We didn't actually sell any to Japan--they bought a license to make copies essentially.
Then as far as Israel is concerned I think the first ones they took were "ready to go" but lately opt for homegrown avionics/controls/electronics.
sevenhelmet
08-09-16, 19:24
Aren't there export packages for most of our weapons systems? The difference is in the electronics, technology etc... so we are not selling the best latest and greatest that we have.
Yes. Foreign Military Sales efforts are one way the defense industry can fund ongoing test and evaluation and keep critical infrastructure open to replace aging equipment if/when Congress finally realizes they have a capability gap, which is usually 10-15 years too late (if ever).
If I recall A10 stopped M1s in their tracks in the desert Storm friendly fire incidents.
Those tank crews didn't think it was very friendly at the time.
daddyusmaximus
08-09-16, 21:32
Why do we keep selling (and giving) these shithole countries our best (or any) weapons?
I'll never get it. Screw their money. Keep the tanks and use them to go take their stuff if we want it that bad.
Why do we keep selling (and giving) these shithole countries our best (or any) weapons?
I'll never get it. Screw their money. Keep the tanks and use them to go take their stuff if we want it that bad.
Are you implying we become a warrior nation of hegemony who take the best women of conquered lands for breeding stock, kill our foes on fields of conquest, honor our dead with grogging and song, and engage in high piracy like some Viking land of Olde? Where pur women wear Dirndls and fishnets and live only to feed us barbecued meat and raise our sons to be hardened warriors and our daughters to know how to bake and choose only the strongest of mates?!
Well I Never! Good day to you, sir!
To think how far our forum has degraded.
I am aghast. :p
I am aghast. :p
Really? I thought the world had enough ghasts already. :suicide2:
Really? I thought the world had enough ghasts already. :suicide2:
That's ghastist, sir. Ghastist! I can't help my parents were ghasts.
I am appalled.
I'm sure they'll look great when we're dropping bombs on them in a few years....
Are you implying we become a warrior nation of hegemony who take the best women of conquered lands for breeding stock, kill our foes on fields of conquest, honor our dead with grogging and song, and engage in high piracy like some Viking land of Olde? Where pur women wear Dirndls and fishnets and live only to feed us barbecued meat and raise our sons to be hardened warriors and our daughters to know how to bake and choose only the strongest of mates?!
Well I Never! Good day to you, sir!
To think how far our forum has degraded.
I am aghast. :p
This. Is. 'MURICA!
Edited in for Effect:
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/43280905.jpg
daddyusmaximus
08-10-16, 14:39
Are you implying we become a warrior nation of hegemony who take the best women of conquered lands for breeding stock, kill our foes on fields of conquest, honor our dead with grogging and song, and engage in high piracy like some Viking land of Olde? Where pur women wear Dirndls and fishnets and live only to feed us barbecued meat and raise our sons to be hardened warriors and our daughters to know how to bake and choose only the strongest of mates?!
Well I Never! Good day to you, sir!
To think how far our forum has degraded.
I am aghast. :p
What is best in life?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc
Why do we keep selling (and giving) these shithole countries our best (or any) weapons?
I'll never get it. Screw their money. Keep the tanks and use them to go take their stuff if we want it that bad.
Because we need them to prop up the petrodollar.
I say just preempt any conflict by nuking them, appropriating their oil fields, thus restoring balance to the universe.
Averageman
08-10-16, 22:23
Really, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
They may have the Tanks, but they don't have the parts, the technology to make the parts, the technicians and mechanics to keep them rolling or the will to use them in a fight.
So unless they intend to put one in front of every Post Office in Saudi Arabia, what have they achieved?
They've simply just tied themselves in to a long contract and spent a lot of money for something that we control.
Well the Iranians got F-14s in the 70s.
How many are still airworthy? How many have AMRAAMs (the whole point of the F-14)?
And who knows maybe the export M1s have that toxic gas Aluminum armor instead of Chobham.
That's a question. We don't really give out DU shells or Chobham armor, do we?
Well the Iranians got F-14s in the 70s.
How many are still airworthy? How many have AMRAAMs (the whole point of the F-14)?
And who knows maybe the export M1s have that toxic gas Aluminum armor instead of Chobham.
That's a question. We don't really give out DU shells or Chobham armor, do we?
https://theaviationist.com/2015/03/01/iriaf-f-14s-overhauled/
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/161361/iran-says-it%E2%80%99s-modifying-f_14-fighters-for-new-missions.html
And the Tomcat's signature dish was the AIM-54 Phoenix missile. The AMRAAM came out much later and is an update of the AIM-7 Sparrow.
I watched more Iron Eagle than Top Gun, sue me.
Iran was meant to be an ally against Soviets and were sold those jets to be competitive against Mig fighters. Then they got all caught up with "Allah-awmighty" and on started the BS
I watched more Iron Eagle than Top Gun, sue me.
Iran was meant to be an ally against Soviets and were sold those jets to be competitive against Mig fighters. Then they got all caught up with "Allah-awmighty" and on started the BS
Brah, do you even The Final Countdown brah?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/F-14-vf-84.jpg
Spurholder
08-11-16, 10:04
Really, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
They may have the Tanks, but they don't have the parts, the technology to make the parts, the technicians and mechanics to keep them rolling or the will to use them in a fight.
So unless they intend to put one in front of every Post Office in Saudi Arabia, what have they achieved?
They've simply just tied themselves in to a long contract and spent a lot of money for something that we control.
Yeah, I doubt that any of their crews could even get through boresighting without a tech present (aka a 19K retiree).
Then there's the whole tactics thing. And then there's the whole logistics thing. And so on, and so on.
Spurholder
08-11-16, 10:08
So unless they intend to put one in front of every Post Office in Saudi Arabia, what have they achieved?
How about a bank? Woof Woof!
40926
Averageman
08-11-16, 10:09
Yeah, I doubt that any of their crews could even get through boresighting without a tech present (aka a 19K retiree).
Then there's the whole tactics thing. And then there's the whole logistics thing. And so on, and so on.
They will sign the contract, the Tank plant will get a good update in Lima or, the Egyptians will fire up the third shift and start kicking out some "Monkey Model" M1's for them. Either way, here is the bottom line, what's the production time line for this?
You save shipping time at the cost of quality labor in Egypt, You gain quality and the United States updates the Lima plant if built in Ohio, the down side is the shipping time. The more likely scenario is that they buy pre positioned M1's and contract a lot of support labor from the U.S.
Somewhere in that contract there may be a little agreement that we as in The United States Military will provide support.
Being that most of our elected "Leadership" is in their pockets, Look Out!
Based on what's going on, you really don't want to get this ball rolling when they are already under fire.
crusader377
08-11-16, 10:35
Although I don't like the idea that the Saudi Arabia is getting more M1s. That said at least we can control the type of M1s that they will be getting and most likely those tanks will have a reduced armor package, less advanced ammo, etc... Saudi Arabia has the money to pretty much buy what it wants and if we don't sell them equipment they can just as easily go to other countries like the French who would happily sell them full spec LeClerces tanks which we don't know everything about and could very likely be better than the reduced spec M1s that we are selling them.
Or German Leopards. Which I believe they already have purchased a couple of years ago...
Averageman
08-11-16, 10:39
Although I don't like the idea that the Saudi Arabia is getting more M1s. That said at least we can control the type of M1s that they will be getting and most likely those tanks will have a reduced armor package, less advanced ammo, etc... Saudi Arabia has the money to pretty much buy what it wants and if we don't sell them equipment they can just as easily go to other countries like the French who would happily sell them full spec LeClerces tanks which we don't know everything about and could very likely be better than the reduced spec M1s that we are selling them.
Looking at the current situation, Yemen is shooting at them, the lead time for production and our current Political Leadership, do you want to bet that they are not buying pre positioned U.S. War Stock?
crusader377
08-11-16, 10:46
Looking at the current situation, Yemen is shooting at them, the lead time for production and our current Political Leadership, do you want to bet that they are not buying pre positioned U.S. War Stock?
Good point that I hadn't though of. That is scary if the administration would go that route but I would not at all put it past them.
Averageman
08-11-16, 10:52
I do think the British and the Germans make some nice Tanks, I don't know anything about French Tanks, but I will say they have to be a close second or third in quality to the other two choices.
It comes down to production time, that's the final rub on the whole deal. None of these guys can fire up a production line and begin building what the Saudi's essentially needed yesterday. Sadly neither can we anymore, so there it is.
The irony is if you take a 21'st Century Tank and give it to an untrained Crew you haven't really solved anything. You're going to send some guys out to die in the hopes they do so "Less Fast" than their enemy.
I'm not sure what is achieved unless we have some agreement to help with trained crews and contractor support.
Spurholder
08-11-16, 10:59
They will buy the Tanks and then get in to a serious bind and ask us for help.
Being that most of our elected "Leadership" is in their pockets, Look Out!
Yeah, that.
I do think the British and the Germans make some nice Tanks, I don't know anything about French Tanks, but I will say they have to be a close second or third in quality to the other two choices.
It comes down to production time, that's the final rub on the whole deal. None of these guys can fire up a production line and begin building what the Saudi's essentially needed yesterday. Sadly neither can we anymore, so there it is.
The irony is if you take a 21'st Century Tank and give it to an untrained Crew you haven't really solved anything. You're going to send some guys out to die in the hopes they do so "Less Fast" than their enemy.
I'm not sure what is achieved unless we have some agreement to help with trained crews and contractor support.
This^^^^
Plus, if we make/sell it, I'd assume that means we know how to kill it?
You know, if it ever came to that...
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Sell as much to them as they want.
All the maintenance is contractor, which makes pulling the rug out very easy (along with owning the supply chain.
Let them kill each other off; Hell, work with Putin to sell just enough that no one can win, essentially allowing them to take each other out of the game.
I fear Persians more than I fear Arabs.
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