View Full Version : Half your friend don't like you
So says recent study. :cool:
Are Your Friends Just Not That Into You?
Do your friends actually like you? Researchers say half the time, probably not. When you call someone a friend, it goes without saying that they too consider you a friend - you like them, they like you, it’s a reciprocal thing.
But a recent study has found that this is probably only true about 50 percent of the time - only half of perceived friendships are actually mutual, and that’s a problem.
Led by researchers from MIT, the study analysed friendship ties in 84 subjects aged 23 to 38, who were taking part in a business management class.
The subjects were asked to rank how close they were with each person in the class on a scale of 0 to 5, where 0 means "I do not know this person," 3 means "Friend," and 5 means "One of my best friends."
The researchers found that while 94 percent of the subjects expected their feelings to be reciprocated, only 53 percent of them actually were.
The study is of course limited because of its tiny sample size, but as Kate Murphy reports for The New York Times, the results are consistent with data from several other friendship studies from the past decade, comprising more than 92,000 subjects, that put reciprocity rates at 34 to 53 percent.
This perception gap when it comes to friendship hints at a number of pretty significant problems, from our inability to clearly define friendship and the impact this could have on our own self-image, to us having the wrong idea about the kind of people who could actually affect social change.
Cont:
http://www.sciencealert.com/you-have-half-as-many-real-friends-as-you-think-you-do-study-finds
1. Jesus is my friend
2. I don't like people anyhow.
3. My mom thinks I'm cool.
But interesting study nonetheless
True friends are so hard to find. I can count on one hand the people that I call friends.
Doc Safari
08-11-16, 11:07
1. Jesus is my friend
2. I don't like people anyhow.
3. My mom thinks I'm cool.
But interesting study nonetheless
Ditto. I'll add my girlfriend. She generally prefers to have me than not have me.
Outlander Systems
08-11-16, 11:12
I've got a Sumsung S7 w/Gear VR + VR porn. Cigarettes. Mountain Dew.
But more importantly, I've got a dog.
Friends are overrated.
Inkslinger
08-11-16, 11:13
I don't like 99% of my friends, so it's all good.
I gave up on friendship at the age of 34.
My only friends? Jesus Christ and my son, that's it.
I don't like/need people outside my immediate family.
THe only "friends" I have I will never lose and they are the members of my platoon from my time in the Army. Every know and then some of us get together in places that seem random but its great to see people travel from all over and talk about the same things we did before. The only sad part is that as time marches on my memory of certain things aren't as sharp as they used to be but the nice thing is other people can remind me.
Averageman
08-11-16, 11:46
I gave up on friendship at the age of 34.
My only friends? Jesus Christ and my son, that's it.
Truth,
Everyone else is just a bit player in Life.
I have given up on one of my Brothers, one of the best and longest friendships I had in the Military and a Wife or two.
I have a high standard and I hold myself and my friends to the same standard, you cant expect integrity and honor from everyone.
That being said I usually don't have anything bad to say about anyone, I just be nice, play fair and don't speak ill of people. For the most part, I try and be as nice as I want people to be to me.
It seems to work.
SomeOtherGuy
08-11-16, 11:48
Led by researchers from MIT, the study analysed friendship ties in 84 subjects aged 23 to 38, who were taking part in a business management class.
The subjects were asked to rank how close they were with each person in the class on a scale of 0 to 5, where 0 means "I do not know this person," 3 means "Friend," and 5 means "One of my best friends."
Oh - come - ON!!! Might as well have done the study with a group of convicts who were diagnosed sociopaths.
MBA programs are a school of sharks, at best. Very optimistic sharks, in this case.
The study isn't worth the electrons that were wasted to generate it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-11-16, 11:50
You have the people that have helped you move and everyone else.
I do have a stratification that I can call in the middle of the night and they'll show up with "A shove, bag of lime and no questions."
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-11-16, 11:55
Oh - come - ON!!! Might as well have done the study with a group of convicts who were diagnosed sociopaths.
MBA programs are a school of sharks, at best. Very optimistic sharks, in this case.
The study isn't worth the electrons that were wasted to generate it.
Uhm, thank you.
I had a guy in my program that made class easy. I just always disagreed with him and the proff thought I was always right. He was the MBA class equivalent of Cynthia McKinney.
That is a horrible group to run it on, because the definition of friend is so fluid in situations like that. Maybe in a dorm (still contrived grouping) or something more natural in grouping.
In all these studies you can always just say that the population for the study was wrong. The populations always are the problem, because that is where the work, effort and expense is.
Truth,
Everyone else is just a bit player in Life.
I have given up on one of my Brothers, one of the best and longest friendships I had in the Military and a Wife or two.
I have a high standard and I hold myself and my friends to the same standard, you cant expect integrity and honor from everyone.
That being said I usually don't have anything bad to say about anyone, I just be nice, play fair and don't speak ill of people. For the most part, I try and be as nice as I want people to be to me.
It seems to work.
Agreed. I've written off many useless family members and remain relatively anonymous to the others. If you have no use I don't need you around.
I just can't convince my wife to think the same. Her family has a deadbeat mooch waste of life making the rounds and they just cant cut him loose and let natural selection take over.
I dont have to see him at least thanks to his behavior and what I did to him the last time he visited. I hate having to always hear about him.
Averageman
08-11-16, 12:23
Agreed. I've written off many useless family members and remain relatively anonymous to the others. If you have no use I don't need you around.
I just can't convince my wife to think the same. Her family has a deadbeat mooch waste of life making the rounds and they just cant cut him loose and let natural selection take over.
I dont have to see him at least thanks to his behavior and what I did to him the last time he visited. I hate having to always hear about him.
My Mother and I had this discussion yesterday.
I think you have to cut certain people out of your life even if they are relatives, or perhaps more importantly because they are relatives.
I've spoken maybe twenty words to my Brother over the last fifteen years, I don't think I've missed a damned thing either. Ironically to some degree, my Mom agreed with me.
The only people that can hurt you are the ones you let hurt you.
Of my friends, I know which ones like me based upon that last few decades of helping each other.
The rest are acquaintances.
Outlander Systems
08-11-16, 13:13
This is exactly why I don't do Facebook.
If you wanna rap, shoot me a text or give me a call if you need a bag of quicklime and some physical labor.
This is exactly why I don't do Facebook.
If you wanna rap, shoot me a text or give me a call if you need a bag of quicklime and some physical labor.
You enjoy gardening too? Yep that lime sure keeps them pesky snails away.
Per the VR pr0n; holy hell. Seriously. Holy hell. Technology has almost progressed where I can totally abandon society.
Averageman
08-11-16, 14:13
You enjoy gardening too? Yep that lime sure keeps them pesky snails away.
Per the VR pr0n; holy hell. Seriously. Holy hell. Technology has almost progressed where I can totally abandon society.
I'm just a "Little Lupe" Robot away from not leaving the house at all.
Outlander Systems
08-11-16, 14:19
@Firefly
Absolutely...
Bro, I'll "friend up" and come monitor your intravenous supply of Pibb, and light your cigs for you, while you're in the Matrix.
Play your cards right, and I'll take out the chamber pot.
Side note: home slizzle let me "view" some additional "interactive entertainment" that involved, let's keep this to acronyms...
FFFM. I was like, completely awestruck. Like a waking dream homie.
All my friends are 1's and 0's nickel.
I have very few true friends and that is how I like to keep it. I have acquaintances, guys I race or play hockey with. My wife is all about having huge circle of friends, I'd rather have very few that I could count on and not disappoint me.
I'm just a "Little Lupe" Robot away from not leaving the house at all.
Ever hear her on the Stern Show? LOL
Averageman
08-11-16, 14:27
Ever hear her on the Stern Show? LOL
Riding the Sybian?
She's cute for sure.
Outlander Systems
08-11-16, 14:40
Will, brother man.
Add an "s" to friend in the title, lest someone think this is another Donnyhan post.
Doc Safari
08-11-16, 14:42
Will, brother man.
Add an "s" to friend in the title, lest someone think this is another Donnyhan post.
I was thinking the same thing! Dadgum forum has been infected!
In all seriousness, I can be friendly to anyone just about. And try to be.
But everybody needs their space. Some people are simply unrealistic and selfish and abuse friendly gestures from acquaintances.
Ever see 500 days of Summer. I thought it was dumb at first, but I have a penchant for pale dark haired blue eyed brunettes and Zoey Deschanel fits the bill.
Anyways dude thinks this FWB fling with Zoey is like the first time a human male has ever felt male-female love and gets this dysphoric viewpoint over some girl who was kinda on the rebound, just wanted a little semi-regular kissyface, and a stop-gap between legit BFs.
Well homeboy is planning the wedding and funeral until she says "Hey I met a guy, you're not gonna get free sex anymore but we can still be friends" and not in a bitchy way.
Then you see a side by side comparison of how HE saw the situation vs how it really was.
The reason half your friends don't like you is because you either take half your friends for granted or you only have anything to do with them because you think you can get something.
Meh, I can be friendly with anyone but I'm not going in with expectations. Nor am I a door mat.
This works for me. I hate people and am entirely self absorbed. Maybe I dislike myself then?
small amount of friends
tons of acquaintances
sadly I wonder if some people actually think Facebook friends are real friends they can count on ?
Oh - come - ON!!! Might as well have done the study with a group of convicts who were diagnosed sociopaths.
MBA programs are a school of sharks, at best. Very optimistic sharks, in this case.
The study isn't worth the electrons that were wasted to generate it.
It's true these sociological/psychological type studies are grossly flawed.....being inductive, and who know if the subjects could relate their thoughts and feelings in a coherent fashion. I personally was just relating the nature of my life in it's last quarter.
small amount of friends
tons of acquaintances
sadly I wonder if some people actually think Facebook friends are real friends they can count on ?
I have four true friends; my wife, the best man from my wedding, and two guys that are closer to me than my own brother. I have tons of people I like to hang out with.
Oddly enough, those two guys that I call true friends were met on the internet, friendships fostered through Facebook, and then moved onto spending quality time in real life together. The best man at my wedding now lives completely across the country from me in New Hampshire. Facebook allows us to communicate and keep track of each others' families. When we get together every couple years, it's like we weren't ever apart.
I like my brother well enough. He's successful and not a dead beat in any way. We just look at the world differently. I can't honestly say if we've ever been friends.
I don't like 99% of the people I meet.
I've only called maybe 10 people in my life friend and kept in touch with them over many years.
I like most dogs better than most people. And I like my dogs better than most dogs.
My very best friend is my wife.
I hate sales types and pretentious people in my town. Progressives immediately cause me projectile vomiting. People who don't accept personal responsibility, SJW types, and whiners make me want to leave as soon as possible. I could go on and on. Most college professors are stupid about politics and brain wash kids, and for that they should all be burned at the stake.
I appreciate our soldiers, but hate all politicians. The last politician I didn't hate was Ronald Reagan.
I don't have many friends, never really had group of friends or even a small circle of friends. I always have that one friend who a few months and then a few months I have no one. Its been that way since I was in 1st grade. Going through school was tough because not that many people interacted with me, some did but I knew it was out of niceness and not actually reaching out to me. I wanted nothing more than to have just a few close friends that I could go out with, hang with but I usually ended up hanging with my self a lot. I got tired of going to see movies and bowling and out to eat by myself, I was embarrassed my parents would find out that I was an outcast or a loser, so I made up a few fake friends and told them that's who I was hanging out with. Problem is that my mom believed me and right before I graduated, she called up to the school and get there parents phone numbers to throw me a party. I had to kill off all my fake friends and lie about how some of them moved out of state. That's the way it was. Now I'm 34 about to be 35 and still hold a grudge against people to an extent, I tend to look back a lot and think about if I had gone about things differently. It took my a long time to find myself and I don't even know if I have found myself. I think all I wanted was for people to interact with me. I wish I was back then, who i was today with the same attitude and mindset. After so many years of being alone, you hate being around people. You actually like being by yourself yet you hate it at the same time. Its weird. It causes anxiety, stress and over the last 10 years I have developed turrets. Sometimes I think I'm crazy because I catch myself talking to my self out loud in the car or when I'm at home alone and I don't know if I was doing it for 10 seconds or 10 minutes, it just happens. I think that is from my need to converse with people. I tend to start conversations with total strangers- which has helped me in my business life. My girlfriend thinks I talk too much about the past and high school and though I'm not trying to bring old shit up I talk because I have a need to talk and when you don't have anyone for so long, you tend to unload on the one person you have. In my 20's I got bored so I started working and got into manufacturing. I would go up to work at nights when no one was there and I would smoke about 2 blunts, in all honesty I don't smoke anymore but when I did, I was at my absolute best. I could focus, I was determined and I had a lot more drive. I could think more clearly and rationalize a lot better. Now days, I still wonder a lot why it wasn't for me, but for what God hasn't given me, he has blessed me with other things. I see people with a lot of friends, they hang out with someone different every night, go out and drink Friday with 10 people and out Saturday night with 10 different people but I find that there not meaningful relationships, more like accessories for people. I have noticed that a lot of people cannot tolerate being a lone. I see that everyday where people are sitting and they have to be on there phones texting, calling someone, facebooking or something. I'm not like that. I'm perfectly fine being by myself. I feel sorry for those who have to have accessories or be entertained 24 hours a day- I think those are the people who haven't found themselves and maybe those are the ones who fear being alone so much that they stockpile fake people in there life, except there fake people happen to be real.
Moose-Knuckle
08-12-16, 04:48
In my teens and twenties I had a huge group of friends that I grew up with in my formidable years, honestly the one of the only reasons I'm on FB.
Last year four of my HS classmates committed suicide, none related. So some of my HS classmates created a support group on FB, it really turned into a online reunion and has been a great experience for all. I've never been to my actual reunions and never will, usually a friend's wedding is a mini reunion for my old troop.
As I get older my circle becomes smaller, by choice. I know some people that are never alone even with their own spouses and children. They are always with a group of friends/family. **** that.
When things go pear shaped, there are more than a few on this forum that I would stand tall at the barricades with.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-12-16, 08:24
I used to have a ton of friends in HS, I now have quite a few people I'm friendly with and barely enough friends to make up a good party of groomsmen at my wedding, which is perfect.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I only have one friend and he's my best friend. We've been best friends for 40 years. He'll do to ride the river with and that's the highest compliment I can give. I've had "friends" come and go in my adult life and I'd have none of them back.
I have to laugh at some of the comments. GOOD friends are hard to find. Friends do come and go and I think that is normal. For those of you that either don't have good friends (or don't want any), there is a generally a reason for it and that reason is that YOUR a crappy friend. So if you want better friends, first try and being a great friend to them and see what happens.
What I find most difficult is trying to find people that like ME and not what I can do for them (special pricing on gear and guns, teach them to shoot, etc). My personal FB account has something like 1,000 + friends on it. Of those 1,000, I probably have only ever talked to (face to face) about 100 of them. Of those 100, I probably only like 50 of them.
C4
I don't have many friends, never really had group of friends or even a small circle of friends. I always have that one friend who a few months and then a few months I have no one. Its been that way since I was in 1st grade. Going through school was tough because not that many people interacted with me, some did but I knew it was out of niceness and not actually reaching out to me. I wanted nothing more than to have just a few close friends that I could go out with, hang with but I usually ended up hanging with my self a lot. I got tired of going to see movies and bowling and out to eat by myself, I was embarrassed my parents would find out that I was an outcast or a loser, so I made up a few fake friends and told them that's who I was hanging out with. Problem is that my mom believed me and right before I graduated, she called up to the school and get there parents phone numbers to throw me a party. I had to kill off all my fake friends and lie about how some of them moved out of state. That's the way it was. Now I'm 34 about to be 35 and still hold a grudge against people to an extent, I tend to look back a lot and think about if I had gone about things differently. It took my a long time to find myself and I don't even know if I have found myself. I think all I wanted was for people to interact with me. I wish I was back then, who i was today with the same attitude and mindset. After so many years of being alone, you hate being around people. You actually like being by yourself yet you hate it at the same time. Its weird. It causes anxiety, stress and over the last 10 years I have developed turrets. Sometimes I think I'm crazy because I catch myself talking to my self out loud in the car or when I'm at home alone and I don't know if I was doing it for 10 seconds or 10 minutes, it just happens. I think that is from my need to converse with people. I tend to start conversations with total strangers- which has helped me in my business life. My girlfriend thinks I talk too much about the past and high school and though I'm not trying to bring old shit up I talk because I have a need to talk and when you don't have anyone for so long, you tend to unload on the one person you have. In my 20's I got bored so I started working and got into manufacturing. I would go up to work at nights when no one was there and I would smoke about 2 blunts, in all honesty I don't smoke anymore but when I did, I was at my absolute best. I could focus, I was determined and I had a lot more drive. I could think more clearly and rationalize a lot better. Now days, I still wonder a lot why it wasn't for me, but for what God hasn't given me, he has blessed me with other things. I see people with a lot of friends, they hang out with someone different every night, go out and drink Friday with 10 people and out Saturday night with 10 different people but I find that there not meaningful relationships, more like accessories for people. I have noticed that a lot of people cannot tolerate being a lone. I see that everyday where people are sitting and they have to be on there phones texting, calling someone, facebooking or something. I'm not like that. I'm perfectly fine being by myself. I feel sorry for those who have to have accessories or be entertained 24 hours a day- I think those are the people who haven't found themselves and maybe those are the ones who fear being alone so much that they stockpile fake people in there life, except there fake people happen to be real.
There is nothing wrong with you. You are probably an introvert same as me. Actually a large portion of the population are introverts with a sliding scale of outgoing-ness (if that makes sense). Read about something called the Meyers-Briggs personality type indicator. It is a very well known tool for psychologists. It absolutely free you from feeling like there is something wrong with you, there is not. Don't be afraid of it, there is no good or bad type. Here is a link to the some interesting reading; http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/
Businesses use variations of this frequently, they gave m teenage daughters the MBTI in their private high school as freshmen. Very helpful.
These two books have truncated versions of the MBTI in them and are good books too:
https://www.amazon.com/People-Types-Tiger-Stripes-Psychological/dp/0935652876
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1885705026/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687442&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0935652876&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=B3KH87BQ6P550Z8YQ38A
These are not your typical self help books they are professional tools. And I'm serious, it will set you free to be yourself, and not feel you need to be somebody else.
...For those of you that either don't have good friends (or don't want any), there is a generally a reason for it and that reason is that YOUR a crappy friend...
If I were to be completely honest with myself, I'd have to face the fact that I probably am a crappy friend. There are too many times when I say the wrong thing, take people for granted and have a preconceived notions as to what's really going on that have nothing to do with reality. In spite of all that, I do have folks I count as a friend who count me as one. They somehow manage to see past my flaws and actually enjoy my company. They are a true blessing in my life
If I were to be completely honest with myself, I'd have to face the fact that I probably am a crappy friend. There are too many times when I say the wrong thing, take people for granted and have a preconceived notions as to what's really going on that have nothing to do with reality. In spite of all that, I do have folks I count as a friend who count me as one. They somehow manage to see past my flaws and actually enjoy my company. They are a true blessing in my life
If you don't want friends then yes, by definition you would be a "crappy" friend because you would be in a position you don't want and/or are uncomfortable with.
Heh. I want friends. I like having friends. I love the friends I have. It's just that sometimes I'm a complete dick but in spite of that, my friends are still my friends and I am amazed by that
What I find most difficult is trying to find people that like ME and not what I can do for them (special pricing on gear and guns, teach them to shoot, etc).
C4 I own a business in a small town and run into the same thing. Lots of folks want to be our friends for the wrong reasons. My two true friends live 60 miles away and I do not do business with them if I can help it. In twenty years I still haven't figured out how to be real friends with someone who is a regular customer.
If I were to be completely honest with myself, I'd have to face the fact that I probably am a crappy friend. There are too many times when I say the wrong thing, take people for granted and have a preconceived notions as to what's really going on that have nothing to do with reality. In spite of all that, I do have folks I count as a friend who count me as one. They somehow manage to see past my flaws and actually enjoy my company. They are a true blessing in my life
All normal. I strive to be the friend that doesn't judge, that will gladly give you a car to drive, pay for dinners, watch your children, take you children on vacation (and cover all costs) and last, but not least speak the truth into their lives. I have had to look HS friends in the eye and tell them that they drink to much. Hard to do….
C4
I own a business in a small town and run into the same thing. Lots of folks want to be our friends for the wrong reasons. My two true friends live 60 miles away and I do not do business with them if I can help it. In twenty years I still haven't figured out how to be real friends with someone who is a regular customer.
Separating customers from friends is pretty hard to do. I have had some customers that I called "friends" for years only to get SUPER butthurt at me if I didn't respond to an e-mail in certain time frame or not talk to them every time they came to our store front (due to being super busy w/business stuff). IMHO, it is nearly impossible to make "good" friends out of customers simply for the reason that if they perceive that they didn't get a "great" price on something, they will hold it against you (whether intentionally or not). Money can really ruine relationships.
C4
Separating customers from friends is pretty hard to do. I have had some customers that I called "friends" for years only to get SUPER butthurt at me if I didn't respond to an e-mail in certain time frame or not talk to them every time they came to our store front (due to being super busy w/business stuff). IMHO, it is nearly impossible to make "good" friends out of customers simply for the reason that if they perceive that they didn't get a "great" price on something, they will hold it against you (whether intentionally or not). Money can really ruine relationships.
C4
Friendship is a two way street. I'm sure you'd give everybody your whole day if possible. But everybody is a lot of people and you are only one.
If my gunstore friend was swamped I'd say "You're busy, bro. Text me when you're off".
I give non life or death emails a few days. It's just a widget, not the last chopper out of Saigon.
It's like this chick I knew in college whose "boyfriend" would camp out at her work. bleh
Friendship is a two way street.
Yes it is. Someone has to set the standard though (as it is a circle). Everyone wants to their friend to stop what they are doing and hang out, lift heavy things or borrow their car/gun/boat/etc, but don't want to be the one to do the same first.
Case in point, I had a friend from HS that was FAMOUS for agreeing to go out to dinner, but forget his wallet. So we had to pay for him (a lot). We would bust his balls every chance we could about it too (as he rarely paid you back). He was killed by a drunk driver many years ago. I would LOVE to pay his dinner bill now…..
C4
I have a bunch of dead friends for some strange reason. Other friends and people I used to hang out with moved on. I've had to trade having fun and hanging out for making a living and staying alive. Sometimes I think it's a good idea to create space or otherwise part ways to actually preserve what is a friendship. I'm not exactly what you call a friend magnet but I try not to give anyone a reason a not like me.
cougar_guy04
08-12-16, 20:20
Agreed. I've written off many useless family members and remain relatively anonymous to the others. If you have no use I don't need you around.
I just can't convince my wife to think the same. Her family has a deadbeat mooch waste of life making the rounds and they just cant cut him loose and let natural selection take over.
I dont have to see him at least thanks to his behavior and what I did to him the last time he visited. I hate having to always hear about him.
For a moment there, I thought you were living with my wife and family and I didn't know it. My wife and I come from different backgrounds and where she thinks you have to be friends with everyone, Ithink that I can have multiple acquaintances but I could could my true friends on my two hands. Nothing personal, but I'm just picky about who I throw my lot in with.
My Mother and I had this discussion yesterday.
I think you have to cut certain people out of your life even if they are relatives, or perhaps more importantly because they are relatives.
I've spoken maybe twenty words to my Brother over the last fifteen years, I don't think I've missed a damned thing either. Ironically to some degree, my Mom agreed with me.
The only people that can hurt you are the ones you let hurt you.
This has been my family's way of doing it for years. My mom, dad, brother and I all live with the mindset of "Life is too short to willingly put up with assholes," and choose our interactions accordingly . . . blood or not. My wife doesn't quite understand it and thinks we should "be the bigger person" and keep up with people just because they're blood. I still explain to her that I have high standards for myself and I hold my friends and family to those same standards. When people bring drama, nastiness, or poor personalities into my life I drive on, My time is too valuable and too precious to spend it on people who do not add value to my existence and who I can bring value to their life.
Aristotle (Nichomachean Ethics) says there are three kinds of friendship:
1: Usefulness--not actually affection but what each can get from the other; not durable.
2. Pleasure--mutual interests--which over time, change and the friendship may fade;
3. Virtue--the appreciation good men have for one another. They wish one anothers' good. Comparatively rare but long-lasting. "What characterizes good men is that they neither go wrong nor let their friends do so."
What I find interesting is that a lot of people think I am an SOB (quite possibly they're right) but that the few real friends I have can somehow stand me--and accept me even when I do something really, really stupid.
Aristotle (Nichomachean Ethics) says there are three kinds of friendship:
1: Usefulness--not actually affection but what each can get from the other; not durable.
2. Pleasure--mutual interests--which over time, change and the friendship may fade;
3. Virtue--the appreciation good men have for one another. They wish one anothers' good. Comparatively rare but long-lasting. "What characterizes good men is that they neither go wrong nor let their friends do so."
What I find interesting is that a lot of people think I am an SOB (quite possibly they're right) but that the few real friends I have can somehow stand me--and accept me even when I do something really, really stupid.
I've done unforgivable physical harm to one of my true friends. He has forgiven me, the other true friend has forgiven me, we have moved on. He had every reason to cut me loose and he didn't.
Averageman
08-14-16, 04:40
I have to ask, Just how many people do you have as "friends" and are they really worth it?
For the most part, I don't need the drama associated with most people.
Some friend groups form around a hub everyone likes while the spokes may not particularly care for each other. My college roommate was the hub. We got along like close brothers. The others and wives liked each other, but were sometimes hostile to me after my conservative conversion. After 30+ years I suspect hub's wife gave him an ultimatum and the invites to the cabin, concerts etc stopped cold.
My one close friend of 58 years along with his wonderful wife make up for all the false ones. With six close siblings and two cousins I see weekly, I don't feel deprived.
Digital_Damage
08-14-16, 17:01
I gave up on friendship at the age of 34.
My only friends? Jesus Christ and my son, that's it.
So which one does not like you?
So which one does not like you?
I didn't mean it in some absolute way obviously. Those 2 seem to overlook to a large degree the things about me that repel others. I would also state that I define friendship in a biblical way. It has been extremely difficult for me to come close to people with different world views.
I dunno.
I find people, who remain civil, whom I disagree with more interesting than people who just go "Yep" "yep" "mm-hmm" like the alleyway on King of the Hill.
Nobody ever got smarter or was challenged by surrounding themselves with Yes Men.
I'm everybody's buddy, but I really gotta know you and like you if we're gonna bury a dead Mexican hooker or explain "odd things" to your doctor or old lady.
Amos 3:3 "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?". I don't expect people to be my yes men, and I do know that sinners are going to sin. I'm called to be charitable to all, even those that would hate me. But true biblical friendship is something all together different than what the world teaches. Christ himself only one time in the scriptures called anyone a friend and that was His apostles. When a man denies something like the deity of Christ for instances, I know that man is not my friend at that time. Maybe someday things will change. It's a world view issue. The agreement spoken of in Amos is about what God has said about reality, not whether an AR is better than an AK. I do and have had some pretty serious disagreements with my Pastor, but we still love and care for each other. Whether we will become friends, I don't know, I'm not optimistic. I don't surround myself with hardly anyone, there is something about me.
MountainRaven
08-14-16, 19:35
I dunno.
I find people, who remain civil, whom I disagree with more interesting than people who just go "Yep" "yep" "mm-hmm" like the alleyway on King of the Hill.
Nobody ever got smarter or was challenged by surrounding themselves with Yes Men.
I'm everybody's buddy, but I really gotta know you and like you if we're gonna bury a dead Mexican hooker or explain "odd things" to your doctor or old lady.
"I never learned from a man who agreed with me."
-Robert Heinlein
I never learned from a man that didn't possess the truth.
My Mother and I had this discussion yesterday.
I think you have to cut certain people out of your life even if they are relatives, or perhaps more importantly because they are relatives.
I've spoken maybe twenty words to my Brother over the last fifteen years, I don't think I've missed a damned thing either. Ironically to some degree, my Mom agreed with me.
The only people that can hurt you are the ones you let hurt you.
Yep, much truth. In all likelihood you gained karma points and avoided drama.
brushy bill
08-14-16, 21:28
I dunno.
I find people, who remain civil, whom I disagree with more interesting than people who just go "Yep" "yep" "mm-hmm" like the alleyway on King of the Hill.
Nobody ever got smarter or was challenged by surrounding themselves with Yes Men.
I'm everybody's buddy, but I really gotta know you and like you if we're gonna bury a dead Mexican hooker or explain "odd things" to your doctor or old lady.
The true gauge of friendship is if you can call someone at 0400 & ask them to meet you with a tarp & a shovel, and their only question is "where?"
What makes you think only half don't like me?
(Friendship is a two way street) Yes it is. Someone has to set the standard though (as it is a circle). C4
Pretty profound observation.
Digital_Damage
08-15-16, 08:32
Amos 3:3 "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?". I don't expect people to be my yes men, and I do know that sinners are going to sin. I'm called to be charitable to all, even those that would hate me. But true biblical friendship is something all together different than what the world teaches. Christ himself only one time in the scriptures called anyone a friend and that was His apostles. When a man denies something like the deity of Christ for instances, I know that man is not my friend at that time. Maybe someday things will change. It's a world view issue. The agreement spoken of in Amos is about what God has said about reality, not whether an AR is better than an AK. I do and have had some pretty serious disagreements with my Pastor, but we still love and care for each other. Whether we will become friends, I don't know, I'm not optimistic. I don't surround myself with hardly anyone, there is something about me.
Narrow and bigoted... Not surprised you don't get along with others.
Pretty profound observation.
It actually comes from a marriage book. Men want their wives to respect them. Women want love. Someone has to start the process and then WAIT for the other to come around. Men withhold love from their wives because they are not being respected in their home. The circle is now broken and both parties are miserable.
I have had the same best friend since HS. There were times where I felt that I was the one putting the effort into keeping the friendship going and he would IF he had nothing else going on. It took YEARS before he realized it. I was patient and in the end, was time well spent…
C4
I didn't mean it in some absolute way obviously. Those 2 seem to overlook to a large degree the things about me that repel others. I would also state that I define friendship in a biblical way. It has been extremely difficult for me to come close to people with different world views.
As a Christian, try looking at it from this point of view. GOD is in control. Meaning that if someone is a liberal/HC supporter, that doesn't mean that you should automatically cast them off just because of their political views are different than yours.
To illustrate my point, my cousins wife is one of the directors of planned parenthood in Ohio. I am very much PRO LIFE. This women might be one of the kindest, friendliest caring people that I have come across to date. She has voted democrat her entire life and sees no issue with killing unborn children. We do not talk about politics or abortion and have a wonderful time hanging out over all the holidays. GOD is in control….
C4
Narrow and bigoted... Not surprised you don't get along with others.
Oh jeepers DD, you're so darn mean. I get along with most people most of the time, but finding a REAL friend, well that's quite different. So if you don't have something nice to say, you know the rest.
Digital_Damage
08-15-16, 12:59
Oh jeepers DD, you're so darn mean. I get along with most people most of the time, but finding a REAL friend, well that's quite different. So if you don't have something nice to say, you know the rest.
I'm just pointing out what you are describing is ACTUAL bigotry on a religious level (as low as it gets, even worse that race). Never seen someone publicly admit to that...
You are effectively saying you can't be friends (or even try) with Jews, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslims, Taoise, Shinto, Shamans, Bahai, Atheist, Agnostic, Satanist , etc... That excludes 99.997% of the global population.
Mind blowing.
I'm just pointing out what you are describing is ACTUAL bigotry on a religious level (as low as it gets, even worse that race). Never seen someone publicly admit to that...
You are effectively saying you can't be friends (or even try) with Jews, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslims, Taoise, Shinto, Shamans, Bahai, Atheist, Agnostic, Satanist , etc... That excludes 99.997% of the global population.
Mind blowing.
If you think I'm a bigot you should read more of the bible. To put it bluntly if you're a God hater (the biblical definition of an unbeliever) you're not God's friend, if you're not God's friend, you're not my friend, it's as simply as that. There may be people that I interact with regularly that are unbelievers that act decently because of God's control over them, and I would have no problem being decent and friendly with them ( some of the guys I shoot with), but friends? Not hardly. Heaven will contain my true friends. Hell will contain God's enemies. You see it's a war, a war not usually fought with worldly weapons.
As for my personal interaction with you, it's a trial. I reveal something personal about myself, and you use it to try and grind my face into ground. That's why talking with an unbeliever like you is so painful.........no charity whatsoever.
As a Christian, try looking at it from this point of view. GOD is in control. Meaning that if someone is a liberal/HC supporter, that doesn't mean that you should automatically cast them off just because of their political views are different than yours.
To illustrate my point, my cousins wife is one of the directors of planned parenthood in Ohio. I am very much PRO LIFE. This women might be one of the kindest, friendliest caring people that I have come across to date. She has voted democrat her entire life and sees no issue with killing unborn children. We do not talk about politics or abortion and have a wonderful time hanging out over all the holidays. GOD is in control….
C4
Yes it is certainly true that God is in absolute control of His creation, God even sending Digital Damage to try me. (I'm one of those dreaded Calvinists). I don't cast people off in the sense that I won't interact with them, but God's enemies are not my friends. If a person despised your mother and your wife could you ever count them your friend? To me it's even worse, with unbelievers.
As for your example, it would be very hard for me to compartmentalize my thoughts concerning her. I'm just not very good at it. I really despise PP, I consider it a vicious criminal enterprise. Outside of an in your face idolater, baby murders are the lowest of the low to me. People that hurt children like that define the term depravity. Knowing that about her would make it very difficult for me to carry on a light conversation. There would be a part of me wanting to reach across and choke the crap out of her. I would consider her niceness in the same vein as Hitler being nice to children......a false face for evil. But as a christian I would want to treat her with decency.
Digital_Damage
08-15-16, 18:11
Well this got weird...
I'm not "thinking" you are a bigot, you are expressing the very definition of what one is and you keep doubling down. If that is how you roll so be it, I'm not "grinding your face it" you are they one self professing.
MountainRaven
08-15-16, 23:03
Yes it is certainly true that God is in absolute control of His creation, God even sending Digital Damage to try me. (I'm one of those dreaded Calvinists). I don't cast people off in the sense that I won't interact with them, but God's enemies are not my friends. If a person despised your mother and your wife could you ever count them your friend? To me it's even worse, with unbelievers.
As for your example, it would be very hard for me to compartmentalize my thoughts concerning her. I'm just not very good at it. I really despise PP, I consider it a vicious criminal enterprise. Outside of an in your face idolater, baby murders are the lowest of the low to me. People that hurt children like that define the term depravity. Knowing that about her would make it very difficult for me to carry on a light conversation. There would be a part of me wanting to reach across and choke the crap out of her. I would consider her niceness in the same vein as Hitler being nice to children......a false face for evil. But as a christian I would want to treat her with decency.
Is Catholicism idolatry? Is Mormonism? Is a Christian who prays before an altar, cross, crucifix, and/or crucified image of Christ an idolator?
Is someone wearing a Mjölnir pendant an "in-your-face" idolator?
Is someone with an amphibious Darwin fish on their car an "in-your-face" idolator?
As Aristotle said, the first thing we need to do is define what we're talking about. So I'm genuinely curious as to what sort of person you consider to be lower than a child murderer, a rapist, serial killers, &c.
Well this got weird...
I'm not "thinking" you are a bigot, you are expressing the very definition of what one is and you keep doubling down. If that is how you roll so be it, I'm not "grinding your face it" you are they one self professing.
No, that's your definition. I'm being consistent with my fundamental axioms. In other words I don't believe God thinks I'm a bigot.
Is Catholicism idolatry? Is Mormonism? Is a Christian who prays before an altar, cross, crucifix, and/or crucified image of Christ an idolator?
Is someone wearing a Mjölnir pendant an "in-your-face" idolator?
Is someone with an amphibious Darwin fish on their car an "in-your-face" idolator?
As Aristotle said, the first thing we need to do is define what we're talking about. So I'm genuinely curious as to what sort of person you consider to be lower than a child murderer, a rapist, serial killers, &c.
Yes, all of those religious iterations practice forms of idolatry. Catholicism generally breaks the 2nd commandment with their false worship practices, especially the mass, their praying to saints, their doctrines concerning Mary, which is more and more encroaching on the Trinity. Mormonism is polytheistic, specifically henotheistic. They violate both the 1st and 2nd commandments. Both teach a false gospel. Pretty much every protestant reformer of the 14th, 15th,16th, 17th,18th centuries considered the Papacy to be the anti-Christ, I agree. A real Christian that does the things you describe is violating primarily the 2nd commandment, a way of worshiping God in a false way, since none of those things are authorized by God in worshiping Him.
Concerning the pendant, if that person is using it to honor or worship viking god's then yes he fits the bill.
A Christian using the fish symbol would again be using something to represent Christ that is not authorized for that purpose. Essentially the commandments of men, not the commandment of God. Mark 7
The reason I place violation of the 1st commandment before the violation of the 6th commandment is that violation of the 1st always is the root of every other sin. Idolatry always leads to sins against man. We hate God, then we hate man made in His image.
A Muslim, Buddhist, Mormon,New Ager, Hindu and probably you are in your face idolators.
Anything else you want to know?
The reason it got weird is that the two of you JUST had to go after me. You just couldn't help yourselves. You could have just wrote me off as a meaningless accident of nature in accordance with your world views. You could have ignored me as a mad man. But that wouldn't do, would it? I'm loyal to Christ as much as I am able, all else flows from that, and you guys can't stand it.
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 09:41
No, that's your definition. I'm being consistent with my fundamental axioms. In other words I don't believe God thinks I'm a bigot.
Well that is convenient for you...
However it is not MY definition, that is THE definition.
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 09:45
The reason it got weird is that the two of you JUST had to go after me. You just couldn't help yourselves. You could have just wrote me off as a meaningless accident of nature in accordance with your world views. You could have ignored me as a mad man. But that wouldn't do, would it? I'm loyal to Christ as much as I am able, all else flows from that, and you guys can't stand it.
It appears you like playing the victim, no one is going after you.
Just pointing out what the definition of being a bigot is. Like I said, if that is your thing so be it. But you need to understand you can't rewrite definitions to absolve yourself. That is not how it works.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-16-16, 10:11
“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”
It appears you like playing the victim, no one is going after you.
Just pointing out what the definition of being a bigot is. Like I said, if that is your thing so be it. But you need to understand you can't rewrite definitions to absolve yourself. That is not how it works.
No victim here, just pointing out how some of you can't stand Christianity and anyone who would actually dare to defend it. Christian men and women who lose they're businesses, they're jobs, and overseas, lose their lives at the hands of secularists and false religionists are the real victims. I just hope the faithful on these shores understand that the same vicious persecution is coming to our land, it's already beginning. I made one small comment on the original post, really not much different than others, but you chose to go after me. Crap like you have been throwing at me is just that.....crap. The only reason I have come this far with you is that I really do care about what happens to you.
Absolve myself, not hardly. Your definition of bigotry seems to include the idea that if I don't make a person my friend based on his religion I qualify. People make or don't make people their friend based upon all kinds of reasons. Would I be a bigot if I don't make a murderer my friend, a thief, a chronic liar, a BLM activist, a polytheistic religionist, a person who hates Christ? People discriminate in their friendships for all kinds of reasons. Even you.
It appears you like playing the victim, no one is going after you.
Just pointing out what the definition of being a bigot is. Like I said, if that is your thing so be it. But you need to understand you can't rewrite definitions to absolve yourself. That is not how it works.
It appears to me that you went after him with your "narrow minded bigot" comment when he merely stated that in accordance with his beliefs he can only be truly friends with someone who shares his beliefs.
I know its really trendy and hip to mess with Christians these days but c'mon man, what you were doing was easily transparent and petty IMO.
I am an Atheist but share many values and beliefs with Christians many of which this country was founded on (though retaining its secular nature) and I've never understood why some people just can't help themselves and feel the need to shit all over someone else's beliefs every chance they get.
Hey Falar - pretty on target observation.
So, I'll take this opportunity to ask you - what is going on in your life? I only ask because I notice you've been a member since 2009, and only have 336 posts, a lot of which have come recently. Did you just retire? That is where I'm at in my life. No offense intended, just curious.
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 12:33
It appears to me that you went after him with your "narrow minded bigot" comment when he merely stated that in accordance with his beliefs he can only be truly friends with someone who shares his beliefs.
I know its really trendy and hip to mess with Christians these days but c'mon man, what you were doing was easily transparent and petty IMO.
I am an Atheist but share many values and beliefs with Christians many of which this country was founded on (though retaining its secular nature) and I've never understood why some people just can't help themselves and feel the need to shit all over someone else's beliefs every chance they get.
Never said narrow minded, exact words were "narrow and Bigoted". His point of view is the actual definition of bigotry, you can't rewrite the English language to suit a point of view.
Somewhat amusing, but no one has bothered to ask what faith I am... They just decided I must be a Christian hater because I decided to break out the dictionary.
Since the topic is kind of friendship:
I often make the mistake of believing that since America is primarily a Christian nation that everyone I speak with is also a Christian. Whether you are or aren't is not of consequence for these thoughts:
History confirms that a man named Jesus lived, over two thousand years ago. Whether you believe he was a deity does not change the impact that his life had upon the world. His life, and the message he conveyed shaped the course of history. What he did, and exhorted others to do was this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
Instead of holding those different than him at arms length, he moved closer, and used the example of his life to influence change. That is historical fact.
Christians, especially those who make an effort to share their faith, are often easy targets for attack because they, unlike God, are not perfect and their lapses are usually pretty easy to see.
As an example, Benito, whom I absolutely wish no harm, is my Will Wheaton. I have lashed out in frustration at some of his posts. Not very Christ-like, ehh? So, with most of us it is easy to play the gotcha game.
Everyone falls short of perfection.
I agree with Tom's views on Catholism and Mormonism. I have several friends of both persuasions. They know my views, I know theirs. I'm going to let God sort it out, because that is the way that I think Jesus was telling us to roll - try to let your life be an example, love your neighbor as yourself, and at the end of the day let God be the judge.
I think maybe I hit my head.
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 12:43
No victim here, just pointing out how some of you can't stand Christianity and anyone who would actually dare to defend it. Christian men and women who lose they're businesses, they're jobs, and overseas, lose their lives at the hands of secularists and false religionists are the real victims. I just hope the faithful on these shores understand that the same vicious persecution is coming to our land, it's already beginning. I made one small comment on the original post, really not much different than others, but you chose to go after me. Crap like you have been throwing at me is just that.....crap. The only reason I have come this far with you is that I really do care about what happens to you.
Absolve myself, not hardly. Your definition of bigotry seems to include the idea that if I don't make a person my friend based on his religion I qualify. People make or don't make people their friend based upon all kinds of reasons. Would I be a bigot if I don't make a murderer my friend, a thief, a chronic liar, a BLM activist, a polytheistic religionist, a person who hates Christ? People discriminate in their friendships for all kinds of reasons. Even you.
LOL, yes that is EXACTLY what it means.
Bigot:
A person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular racial or religious group.
Hey Falar - pretty on target observation.
So, I'll take this opportunity to ask you - what is going on in your life? I only ask because I notice you've been a member since 2009, and only have 336 posts, a lot of which have come recently. Did you just retire? That is where I'm at in my life. No offense intended, just curious.
Retired---no. Getting old but not that old. As far as my posting frequency is concerned I have some free time lately as I spend more and more time in the office and I've moved back to Texas and am acquiring guns and shooting again after many years in a state in which that was not possible. The entire time I was there I did my best to stay off boards/forums (of course, I couldn't completely cut myself off but tried my best) and tried to avoid guns as a conversation topic since I was focused on my family and career and trying to not focus on my limited freedoms but yet, there it was like a cloud over my head every where I went.
Now I'm back in a free state and getting back to my roots and I find the industry as a whole is very different, better than ever in some ways. Just wish I had the income I did before because I have a lot of catching up to do. Already got my LTC (not called a CHL here anymore) and have a couple of ARs for the first time since 2011.
As far as a brief bio goes I moved around a lot as a kid, pretty rough upbringing around drugs, crime, divorce, custody battles, step parents, welfare abuse, ghetto life, etc until I finally had a stable life during my High School years in Texas. I joined the Army right out of high school, then September 11th happened and I found myself in Afghanistan after just 6 months in my unit. A later deployment to Iraq was cut short when my right leg suffered a severe injury that also got me medically separated with a very small disability rating. I could have stayed in as a POG but I had no interest in that as I joined to be Airborne Infantry and was not going to give that up. With the hardware in my leg I was not going to be cleared to jump. After getting out my first job I'm ashamed to admit was private security just to get a paycheck but once I felt my leg was strong enough for blue collar work (took a few years to get to the point I could stand on just the bad leg or run) about a year and a half later I got into the oil industry and started at the bottom but have worked my way up to a very good position. I am married with one young child and live in West Texas.
Cool. Thanks, didn't mean to pry. And seriously, thanks for making the US proud.
LOL, yes that is EXACTLY what it means.
Bigot:
A person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular racial or religious group.
There should have been a comma between religion and I. It changes the context. I don't hate people in sense you are using it. If I hated them the way the world hates, I wouldn't bother to tell them the gospel.
OK DD what is your religion. Since you don't argue from scripture or scriptural principles, I had to improvise. I have been completely upfront with this board about what I believe, now grace us with the same.
The reason I don't except that I fit the definition of a bigot is that I don't hate Mormons or whomever you list as I stated above. I would also point out that you are accusing me of evil based on, as far as I can discern, something besides God's law. You haven't even shown that being bigoted is actually evil by any unchanging moral standard, which begs the question. Do you appeal to an unchanging moral standard? If your moral standard is borrowed, or personal, or societal, you're not going to be able to justify it......it's but shifting sand.
Just so you know how I view unbelievers I will tell you. In that they are creatures of God made in His image I do and try to love them. In that they are enemies of Christ as Lord and Savior (the messiah) I hate them. This is what the bible teaches and this is what I believe. The typical evangelical statement that God loves the sinner, but hates the sin is at best sentimental and at worst a gross half truth.
It appears you like playing the victim, no one is going after you.
Just pointing out what the definition of being a bigot is. Like I said, if that is your thing so be it. But you need to understand you can't rewrite definitions to absolve yourself. That is not how it works.
You've made the assumption that someone who chooses not to associate with someone is intolerant of them. The two are not mutually inclusive, and TomMcC never stated he was intolerant, only that he chose not to have them as friends. It seems you're simply anxious to put the bigot label on someone you disagree with, which is ironic.
Never said narrow minded, exact words were "narrow and Bigoted". His point of view is the actual definition of bigotry, you can't rewrite the English language to suit a point of view.
Well, first things first, the actual definition of "bigot" is:
bigot:
a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
That doesn't really define what a bigot, is, though, because it relies on the word "intolerant" to describe one. So let's look at what the word "intolerant" means:
intolerant:
not tolerant of views, beliefs, or behavior that differ from one's own.
Ok, not as much help as it primarily relies on the definition of "tolerant" (after all, it's the antonym for "tolerant"). "Tolerant" means:
tolerant:
showing willingness to allow the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with.
So, replacing the word bigot with its expanded definition, "bigot" refers to:
expanded definition of bigot:
A person who is unwilling to allow the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with
That's funny, because NOTHING in TomMcC's posts conveyed that he would not allow of the existence or behavior of others who disagreed with him, only that he would not associate with him.
Since you seem to be so big on definitions of words, know that in no way does TomMcC meet the definition of a bigot by your own argument.
So what is a true "bigot"? Members of the KKK, members of white-power, BLM, and other similar movements - people who literally are "unwilling to allow the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with" [the expanded definition of bigot].
Your real problem here seems to be freedom of thought and freedom to express those thoughts; you know, the 1st Amendment. "Bigot" has become a catch-all "help me I'm losing" excuse from those who disagree with the opinions of others.
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 16:24
You've made the assumption that someone who chooses not to associate with someone is intolerant of them. The two are not mutually inclusive, and TomMcC never stated he was intolerant, only that he chose not to have them as friends. It seems you're simply anxious to put the bigot label on someone you disagree with, which is ironic.
Intolerant is not a requirement, not willing to accept them is part of the definition.
As in not willing to accept them as a friend.
You've made the assumption that someone who chooses not to associate with someone is intolerant of them. The two are not mutually inclusive, and TomMcC never stated he was intolerant, only that he chose not to have them as friends. It seems you're simply anxious to put the bigot label on someone you disagree with, which is ironic.
As a small correction, I will pretty much associate anyone. I do it everyday. Sometimes I know what people believe about ultimate issues, sometimes not. It's just that having "friendly" acquaintances, some much more friendly than others is different to me than true and deep "friendships". Thank you for your comment.
Intolerant is not a requirement, not willing to accept them is part of the definition.
As in not willing to accept them as a friend.
Seriously DD, would you accept an ISIS executioner as a bosom buddy, somebody you would lay your life down for? Why not? Are you a bigot?
As in not willing to accept them as a friend.
Your logic is completely flawed and not based in the definition of what an actual bigot is whatsoever.
According to your own argument, not befriending Adolf Hitler would make you a bigot. In fact, it's asinine because someone who refuses to be friends with an actual bigot would in turn be made themselves a bigot.
You can't just make up definitions to have them fit your arguments (not that yours did in any way, shape, or form - it failed pretty miserably).
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 16:33
Your logic is completely flawed and not based in the definition of what an actual bigot is whatsoever.
According to your own argument, not befriending Adolf Hitler would make you a bigot. In fact, it's asinine because someone who refuses to be friends with an actual bigot would in turn be made themselves a bigot.
You can't just make up definitions to have them fit your arguments (not that yours did in any way, shape, or form - it failed pretty miserably).
That is the actual definition... who is making up definitions?
Yale
A person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular racial or religious group.
Websters
person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)
Miriam-Websters
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 16:35
Seriously DD, would you accept an ISIS executioner as a bosom buddy, somebody you would lay your life down for? Why not? Are you a bigot?
That is not how it works, you are discounting other religious groups whole cloth before knowing who they are.
That is the actual definition... who is making up definitions?
Yale
A person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular racial or religious group.
Websters
person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)
Miriam-Websters
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
You just claimed that not befriending someone makes you a bigot. NOWHERE is the word "friend" listed in any of those definitions. You're grasping at straws now.
Intolerant is not a requirement, not willing to accept them is part of the definition.
As in not willing to accept them as a friend.
Yet again, your own argument is ridiculous. Not befriending an ISIS executioner, by your OWN argument, makes you a bigot.
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 16:37
You just claimed that not befriending someone makes you a bigot. NOWHERE is the word "friend" listed in any of those definitions. You're grasping at straws now.
He admittedly refuse to accept people as a friend due to religious belief. Who is grasping now?
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 16:41
You just claimed that not befriending someone makes you a bigot. NOWHERE is the word "friend" listed in any of those definitions. You're grasping at straws now.
Yet again, your own argument is ridiculous. Not befriending an ISIS executioner, by your OWN argument, makes you a bigot.
So all Muslims are ISIS executioners? Got it.
He admittedly refuse to accept people as a friend due to religious belief. Who is grasping now?
You're making a strawman argument to cover your own mistake. Nowhere in ANY definition that you posted does the word "friend" appear, therefore not befriending someone does not equate to bigotry, because it is not intolerant (which brings us full circle to your strawman argument).
Choosing to not befriend someone does not mean you're intolerant of them, it simply means you choose not to be friends with them. There's plenty of people I like that I choose not to be friends with, and plenty of people I dislike that I choose not to be friends with - befriending or choosing not to is not indicative of bigotry by your own posted definitions.
An apology would be in order on your end to TomMcC, but that's just my opinion.
This is the third time you've dodged the reply, so I'll ask it directly: According to your OWN argument, not befriending Adolf Hitler would make you a bigot. So would you personally befriend Adolf Hitler, yes or no?
So all Muslims are ISIS executioners? Got it.
I didn't mention the word Muslim anywhere in my post. Seems like you're ripe with logical fallacies today.
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 16:48
You're making a strawman argument to cover your own mistake. Nowhere in ANY definition that you posted does the word "friend" appear, therefore not befriending someone does not equate to bigotry, because it is not intolerant (which brings us full circle to your strawman argument).
Choosing to not befriend someone does not mean you're intolerant of them, it simply means you choose not to be friends with them. There's plenty of people I like that I choose not to be friends with, and plenty of people I dislike that I choose not to be friends with - befriending or choosing not to is not indicative of bigotry by your own posted definitions.
An apology would be in order on your end to TomMcC, but that's just my opinion.
epic nonsense... he is refusing to accept someone as a friend because of their religion. Does not get any clearer than that, he is refusing to accept that person. Simple as it gets. You are trying to obfuscate this and play it down to a point that being a bigot is becoming an impossibly.
Not sure what I should apologize for, gave a definition to his words.
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 16:50
I didn't mention the word Muslim anywhere in my post. Seems like you're ripe with logical fallacies today.
Than perhaps ISIS is a race?
Man, y'all gonna get this thread locked over a humbug. And I wish you wouldn't because there was some deep Breakfast Club commiseration going on.
That is the actual definition... who is making up definitions?
Yale
A person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular racial or religious group.
Websters
person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)
Miriam-Websters
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
None of what I have written fits those definitions. But what the heck, you seem to be ignoring me now.
epic nonsense... he is refusing to accept someone as a friend because of their religion. Does not get any clearer than that, he is refusing to accept that person. Simple as it gets. You are trying to obfuscate this and play it down to a point that being a bigot is becoming an impossibly.
Not sure what I should apologize for, gave a definition to his words.
You seem to have a real issue with logic and reasoning.
Definitions exist for a reason. And for some reason, you seem to keep insisting that not being someone's "friend" makes them a bigot, despite the fact that a bigot is defined as someone who is intolerant [definition: showing an unwillingness to allow the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with.]. Nowhere does befriending someone appear in the definition. Yet you repeatedly argue that it qualifies.
Since you insist on illogically using it (ironically as a logical argument), you must then also face the reality that not befriending ANYONE makes you a bigot for the exact same reason. Ergo, you are a bigot if you choose to not befriend a BLM supporter, a KKK member, or even Adolf Hitler.
Your argument doesn't make sense because it fails the logic litmus test. You realize it, everyone else realizes it, so you're playing the "being a bigot is becoming an impossibly [sic - it's spelled impossibility]. Ironically, yet again, you're right, because actual bigotry has been largely removed from American culture. Your "definition" of being a "bigot" by not befriending someone isn't bigotry, it's Fascist garbage. Accusing someone of being a bigot because they didn't befriend someone is simply a Progressive's argument to try to force people to accept morals and lifestyles they don't agree with.
Who we befriend and who we choose to associate with is our own business. I may not like Satanic cult worshippers, but I recognize their right to worship. Would I befriend one? Nope, but I have no interest in disallowing their opinions or behavior - therefore, by definition, I am not a bigot. That's what a free people, a free nation, looks like.
I suggest you study logic and reasoning a bit more, and that you give TomMcC an apology. But again, this is just my opinion.
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 17:08
You seem to have a real issue with logic and reasoning.
Definitions exist for a reason. And for some reason, you seem to keep insisting that not being someone's "friend" makes them a bigot, despite the fact that a bigot is defined as someone who is intolerant [definition: showing an unwillingness to allow the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with.]. Nowhere does befriending someone appear in the definition. Yet you repeatedly argue that it qualifies.
Since you insist on illogically using it (ironically as a logical argument), you must then also face the reality that not befriending ANYONE makes you a bigot for the exact same reason. Ergo, you are a bigot if you choose to not befriend a BLM supporter, a KKK member, or even Adolf Hitler.
Your argument doesn't make sense because it fails the logic litmus test. You realize it, everyone else realizes it, so you're playing the "being a bigot is becoming an impossibly [sic - it's spelled impossibility]. Ironically, yet again, you're right, because actual bigotry has been largely removed from American culture. Your "definition" of being a "bigot" by not befriending someone isn't bigotry, it's Fascist garbage. Accusing someone of being a bigot because they didn't befriend someone is simply a Progressive's argument to try to force people to accept morals and lifestyles they don't agree with.
Who we befriend and who we choose to associate with is our own business. I may not like Satanic cult worshippers, but I recognize their right to worship. Would I befriend one? Nope, but I have no interest in disallowing their opinions or behavior - therefore, by definition, I am not a bigot. That's what a free people, a free nation, looks like.
I suggest you study logic and reasoning a bit more, and that you give TomMcC an apology. But again, this is just my opinion.
Ahh... so now the real reason for your white knighting becomes clear. Should have known.
Nothing wrong with my logic and reasoning, but hey that is just my opinion.
Ahh... so now the real reason for your white knighting becomes clear. Should have known.
Nothing wrong with my logic and reasoning, but hey that is just my opinion.
The Red Herring Fallacy (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/150/Red-Herring).
Digital_Damage
08-16-16, 17:11
The Red Herring Fallacy (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/150/Red-Herring).
Irony...
Have to admit, the constant obfuscation just to push a conservative agenda took me by surprise.
Irony...
Have to admit, the constant obfuscation just to push a conservative agenda took me by surprise.
I'm not a conservative (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/1/Ad-Hominem-Abusive) nor am I pushing a conservative agenda (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/169/Strawman-Fallacy).
So, the study indicates half of the people who are considered my friends don't like me. If there is a big turn out at my funeral, does that mean half of my friends are just there to make sure I am dead? ;)
So, the study indicates half of the people who are considered my friends don't like me. If there is a big turn out at my funeral, does that mean half of my friends are just there to make sure I am dead? ;)
All I know is that when I die.....
I've already pre-arranged for a fat, black Cowboy with a face mask and two six shooters, a guy dressed up like a ninja with Katana, a 6'5" drag queen, a guy in leather assless chaps and motorcycle cap, and a 50 year old woman dressed up like Lolita with high pigtails, shorty-short skirt, whore heels, and heart sunglasses to show up, sit in the back and utter not a single word.
Just sit in silence and solemnity.
Then after they put me in, just leave without a word.
I want whomever survives me to go "What the HELL did he have going on we didn't know about?"
Man, y'all gonna get this thread locked over a humbug. And I wish you wouldn't because there was some deep Breakfast Club commiseration going on.
I'm pretty sure this is going to go down in M4C history as the big_OT thread. I know I'm not a bigot because the people I don't like really are a**holes.
All I know is that when I die.....
I've already pre-arranged for a fat, black Cowboy with a face mask and two six shooters, a guy dressed up like a ninja with Katana, a 6'5" drag queen, a guy in leather assless chaps and motorcycle cap, and a 50 year old woman dressed up like Lolita with high pigtails, shorty-short skirt, whore heels, and heart sunglasses to show up, sit in the back and utter not a single word.
Just sit in silence and solemnity.
Then after they put me in, just leave without a word.
I want whomever survives me to go "What the HELL did he have going on we didn't know about?"
If there is liquor and plenty of food and beer, I will gladly attend your wake.
All I know is that when I die.....
I've already pre-arranged for a fat, black Cowboy with a face mask and two six shooters, a guy dressed up like a ninja with Katana, a 6'5" drag queen, a guy in leather assless chaps and motorcycle cap, and a 50 year old woman dressed up like Lolita with high pigtails, shorty-short skirt, whore heels, and heart sunglasses to show up, sit in the back and utter not a single word.
So in other words... JSantoro, Steyr AUG, Eurodriver, Iraqgunz and KalashniKev will be attending your funeral?!?
So in other words... JSantoro, Steyr AUG, Eurodriver, Iraqgunz and KalashniKev will be attending your funeral?!?
And T2C, he can be the Chaps guy. :p
And T2C, he can be the Chaps guy. :p
IG & T2C both in assless chaps? Now you're gettin weird on us.
IG & T2C both in assless chaps? Now you're gettin weird on us.
Whose Funeral is it? Mine or yours?
Chaps are always "assless" FYI. They are worn over pants. Wearing them without pants would give the effect you're looking for.
Chaps are always "assless" FYI. They are worn over pants. Wearing them without pants would give the effect you're looking for.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160817/ea32b9222bb4795cfb315b1c6ebdfbbe.jpg
Chaps are always "assless" FYI. They are worn over pants. Wearing them without pants would give the effect you're looking for.
Okay, you do know that aside from cowboys and mid-life crisis harley riders, they are almost always worn sans pantaloons. Jeez, you Texans, always with the horses you are.
I'm kind of hurt, I wanted to steer the longship and light the fire.
Okay, you do know that aside from cowboys and mid-life crisis harley riders, they are almost always worn sans pantaloons. Jeez, you Texans, always with the horses you are.
I'm kind of hurt, I wanted to steer the longship and light the fire.
It was kind of a given that you would be clad in Viking clothes, swilling mead, grunting loudly and firing the arrow that ignited my watery pyre
MountainRaven
08-16-16, 23:41
Okay, you do know that aside from cowboys and mid-life crisis harley riders, they are almost always worn sans pantaloons. Jeez, you Texans, always with the horses you are.
I'm kind of hurt, I wanted to steer the longship and light the fire.
I'm from Montana and I was going to point out the same thing about chaps being "assless".
So all Muslims are ISIS executioners? Got it.
No, all muslims are Christ hating idolators.
That is not how it works, you are discounting other religious groups whole cloth before knowing who they are.
I know enough of who they are. Again Islam itself is sufficient reason.....Islam itself is evil.......it's a false religion.
And T2C, he can be the Chaps guy. :p
Perhaps I spoke too soon. I may be busy that day. :confused:
Digital_Damage
08-17-16, 12:24
I know enough of who they are. Again Islam itself is sufficient reason.....Islam itself is evil.......it's a false religion.
Quoted for the record ...
Quoted for the record ...
What record?
You've been here long enough to know that 'Islam itself is sufficient reason.....Islam itself is evil.......it's a false religion.' is a fairly common sentiment among many members of this August Group.
Tom's way is not your way, we get it.
By pure definition, to a Christian, Muslims are Christ hating iodolators, and Islam is a false religion. Guess what, to a Christian any religion that doesn't proclaim that Jesus is Lord and Savior is a false religion.
There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear....
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong.....
I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Deep arguments about Christianity interlaced with assless chaps banter...no way this gets locked down. The Internet was MADE for this thread.
It's like my first trip to a titty bar as a youngster...so much to look at....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160817/85a4e7af9123d4bdc01be881560c3806.gif
I'm trying to figure out which two of my four M4C friends hate me. Two of you I don't like either, I'm just not sure which two it is yet.
[emoji14]
Quoted for the record ...
What does this even mean?
I'm trying to figure out which two of my four M4C friends hate me. Two of you I don't like either, I'm just not sure which two it is yet.
[emoji14]
Yeah? Well Aaron Rogers is at best a 3rd rate quarterback....and that's being generous... [emoji14]
Yeah? Well Aaron Rogers is at best a 3rd rate quarterback....and that's being generous... [emoji14]
Who's that? Any relation to Jordan from the Bachelorette?
Who's that? Any relation to Jordan from the Bachelorette?
Damn it auto correct!
Perhaps I spoke too soon. I may be busy that day. :confused:
Busy going to my funeral in rhinestone studded assless chaps. We know. The day is planned.
You know you're gonna go....
Also as for religion.....
If I may quote Lennon, "Whatever floats your boat as long as it doesn't sink mine"
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160818/1288fc336d58a6af986fdcaf2f0c3253.jpg
Seems fitting to this thread.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160818/1288fc336d58a6af986fdcaf2f0c3253.jpg
Seems fitting to this thread.
Seems fitting to your last couple posts. [emoji6]
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160818/479d713fe2045dc2018b9732e9fc2622.jpg
Seems fitting to your last couple posts. [emoji6]
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160818/479d713fe2045dc2018b9732e9fc2622.jpg
Ain't gonna lie, Ron Swanson is kinda my hero.
Ain't gonna lie, Ron Swanson is kinda my hero.
Welcome to my life
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160818/1288fc336d58a6af986fdcaf2f0c3253.jpg
Seems fitting to this thread.
Another long meandering tale with no relevance:
The other day was our 22nd Anniversary. We are driving through a small town and I once again noticed some ceramic like jack-o-lanterns setting in front of a store. I'd seen them before on another trip. I told my wife 'You know I was through here the other day, saw those and said to myself "you know Patty would like one of those" Since Patty is my first wife's name wife number two immediately said 'Well, Happy Anniversary.' I do not know where that came from. Luckily she has a sense of humor.
Back to your regular programming.
Moose-Knuckle
08-18-16, 02:02
I had never seen Parks & Recreation when a former coworker of mine who was a big fan of the show told me I reminded him of Ron Swanson (not physically). :lol:
I had never seen Parks & Recreation when a former coworker of mine who was a big fan of the show told me I reminded him of Ron Swanson (not physically). [emoji38]
One of the best shows ever. Dead serious, I wept when I finished the final season.
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