View Full Version : Stolen Valor is generational and other musings
Now that I have been at the UDT/SEAL museum for a while, one of the saddest things we see regularly is generational Stolen Valor. Every day people come in and say "My dad was a SEAL" or "Uncle Jack was a SEAL in 'Nam, he has some great stories" or "My grandpa was a Frog Man in WWII and I'd like to look up his info"
The museum has the records of all teams from the first NCDU and UDT guys, plank owners, to modern SEALs . There are books we access to look them up, with Buds #, names, dates, etc. Class graduation picture for every one. We can look them up, and then we will copy the class graduation pic and give it to them. Some times that brings tears seeing their dad or grandfather as a strapping young guy looking back at them from the graduating class picture. It's a very moving, at least for me.
Some times we get guys who were on the early teams. One guy last week in his 90s who spent several months in a Japanese POW camp and escaped. He came in with his granddaughter, looked up his name, and there he was, a young man looking back at him and it was obvious he and granddaughter were blown away the team graduation picture existed. We made a copy of his UDT graduation picture and gave it to his granddaughter . For me, that's the high point of being at the museum. We don't charge WWII vets entry as a rule. I don't think I could bring myself to do it, considering what he's been through, sacrificed for his country, and an A hole like me, and I'm happy it's unofficial policy not to. Official policy is the museum does not charge active duty of any service, and SEAL or UDT retired, as it's their museum.
However, I'd estimate 3 of 5 who grew up so proud their dad was a SEAL were lied to. Imagine growing up being told your father, or uncle, or grandfather was a Naval Special Warfare in some form or another, to learn it's not true? Of of the 3 out of 5 who learn that, I'd say 2 of the 3 simply refuse to accept it, accuse us of obviously having incomplete records, yada yada, and leaving with their fantasy in tact. Favorite is they will say the missions they were on had been so secret they don't exist in the records. Of brother...
Case in point: young women came to the desk with BF and tells us she's been looking forward to seeing the museum because her father was on SEAL Team 5 in the 70s. We point out nicely as possible there was no 5 in the 70s. Not in super secret ninja form or any other. Me, I always try to be nice about and give benefit of the doubt that maybe they have the dates wrong or other intel wrong.
The guys who have been there a long time, can be very blunt about. This gal was very adamant it was team 5 and the 70s. So, we pulled out the books and went through every BUDs graduation roster that existed for the 70s, and no dad was there. So, she picks up the phone and calls dad finally. Puts him on speaker to "show us" and that was a bad idea.
Long pause, etc, but long and short of it was he couldn't remember his BUDs number (no one ever forgets that period) and was "fuzzy" on his dates served. He did say a few things that indicated he'd probably did serve in the Navy, but he was exposed as being full of shit.
I am far from an expert on all things SEAL/NavSpec, but people that work there are, and BTDT types from the community, and they are not short to make it clear "Your dad was no SEAL."
As mentioned, I'd guess that's the case 3 of 5 times, and 2 of the 3, they are sure the museum is in the wrong.
She decided she didn't even wanna see the museum being it couldn't even get it's books right on was and was not a SEAL and left, cognitive dissonance intact.
Note: all comments, opinions, and conclusions are mine alone, and do not represent that of the UDT/SEAL museum in any way shape or form.
Is any of the information accessible online Will?
Is any of the information accessible online Will?
Specific to the database of graduation classes for NCDU/UDT/BUDS? I don't think so. We have to manually go through the books by date ranges and BUDs #. There are of course places/people that can be contacted to look someone up. Having said that, the museum has a ton of scanned docs that are ongoing online, so take a look around:
https://www.navysealmuseum.org/
alvincullumyork
08-15-16, 10:18
I met a 'SEAL' once at a bar. He was pretty quick to tell my group that he was a SEAL and made a couple of humble brags. I asked him a couple of basic gun questions about pistols and belt felts, not that I know much, but he didn't have a clue. I know they aren't all gun guys but he didn't even know what a 240 was. My bullshit meter was pinging hard but I definitely don't have the knowledge to really know. I probably wouldn't do anything even if I did.
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I met a 'SEAL' once at a bar. He was pretty quick to tell my group that he was a SEAL and made a couple of humble brags. I asked him a couple of basic gun questions about pistols and belt felts, not that I know much, but he didn't have a clue. I know they aren't all gun guys but he didn't even know what a 240 was. My bullshit meter was pinging hard but I definitely don't have the knowledge to really know. I probably wouldn't do anything even if I did.
I think everyone meets one or two of those at some point. It's one thing to be that guy in a bar, but it's another to convince family and friends over generations to have their bubble burst, be embarrassed, hurt, etc due to your lies.
In the movie "Patton", there is that line spoken that says something along the lines "you won't have to say that during the war I shoveled shit in Louisiana"...
So daddy wants to look bigger in the eyes of their kids... and there you go.
Internet makes a lot of stories into a mound of horse hockey now days. My friend's dad was a hero fighter pilot in WW II until we researched and found out he was a cook in Wiesbaden after VE day. That was a difficult moment for my friend.
ramairthree
08-15-16, 10:54
Sometimes it is the guy doing the bull shitting.
Sometimes it is the family. I know a guy that was a nuke sub WO and did the navy basic scuba course so he could be part of the detail that does the checks. He has never said any different.
His mom, wife, kids, etc. go around telling everyone he was a seal.
I had a neighbor that was an EOD guy and never told anyone different. When he got married his wife told everyone he was a seal.
[QUOTE=alvincullumyork;2365070]I met a 'SEAL' once at a bar. He was pretty quick to tell my group that he was a SEAL and made a couple of humble brags. I asked him a couple of basic gun questions about pistols and belt felts, not that I know much, but he didn't have a clue. I know they aren't all gun guys but he didn't even know what a 240 was. My bullshit meter was pinging hard but I definitely don't have the knowledge to really know. I probably wouldn't do anything even if I did.
Was he older?
If you were SOF in up to early 90s or a while longer you may not have know the 240.
Or if you did you called it an FN MAG.
I used one with some Dutch Marine Commandoes in PR around 87.
Called it an FN MAG until I think mid if not late 90s.
I've heard it joked that the reason we lost Vietnam was everyone was a ranger/seal/SF etc etc and we didn't take any truck drivers or cooks to keep em in beans, bandages and bullets. Kinda unfortunate that that's a become a joke....
Sometimes it is the guy doing the bull shitting.
Sometimes it is the family. I know a guy that was a nuke sub WO and did the navy basic scuba course so he could be part of the detail that does the checks. He has never said any different.
I went to officer school in Pensacola that had the same...former nuke Chief, got his warrant. Last name Koala, like the bear. Can't be too many guys like that running around.
Damn, if I had a dollar for every fake SEAL I met. Seems I have run into far fewer fake SF soldiers. There was a nurse in the ED of a local hospital claiming to be a SEAL corpsman. Pinged my radar...I had been a corpsman, and had been assigned to some NSW units (disclaimer: NOT a SEAL). I asked him his class number, he said "summer class." I asked for specific number, told me it was classified. I told his wife (also a nurse) he was full of shit (I was nice and tactful) and she went all ape shit on me falsely accusing him.
And I think there are about 10 other fakes I have met. One would think in this day and age with all of the websites available to out these people they would know better.
WickedWillis
08-15-16, 12:00
I interviewed a Vietnam veteran in High school for my broadcasting class that claimed to be a SEAL. It was one of the most sobering things I ever did in High School. It really pushed me to have more respect for anyone that served than I previously had, and helped me grow up quite a bit.
It seemed for many years the SEALS lived a 'quiet professional' under the radar existence. While I kind of understand what brought them and other elite units into the limelight, it seems some of them have embraced the notoriety. As a result, you get hangers on.
The SEALS I met at HK in the 80's didn't particularly advertise their lineage, could have been OPSEC, could have been 'I'm here to learn so it really doesn't matter.' Likewise, the two former SEALS that I know that I helped train, didn't advertise the fact they had been SEALS. They were like 'I was in the Navy.' These guys were circa late 80's early 90's, I wonder if the general attitude has changed.
Back in the day, I had two acquaintances I met through police work. Both had been Marines, both had served in VN. One was pretty loud and obnoxious by nature, tried real hard to be a 'man's man' the other was quiet. You would have thought the one had spent his entire tour in the field being overrun. The other, never a peep.
One day I happened to be in the area where the quiet guy lived, so we met up for lunch. He had just divorced and had gotten some new digs, so we went over to his new place so he could show me. He had one bedroom fixed up as a home office/den. On the wall were some pictures from VN showing a skinny little guy with some indigenous troops, all holding various weapons. 'Who's this?' 'Oh, that's me and some of the guys I ran the trail with.' 'Bullshit, that guy looks like something you ate.' Well that lead to fishing out his boot camp book, and a scrapbook full of pictures, certificates and citations. Purple heart among them.
Unbeknownst to me, this guy had been Force Recon, navy wings, bubble, the whole bit. Wow!
I interviewed a Vietnam veteran in High school for my broadcasting class that claimed to be a SEAL. It was one of the most sobering things I ever did in High School. It really pushed me to have more respect for anyone that served than I previously had, and helped me grow up quite a bit.
This reminds me of a story. I was a paramedic, went to a chest pain call. The EKG showed a for-real MI. I asked this guy, well into his 60s, the "on a scale of 0-10 with 0 being no pain and 10 being the worst pain you every felt, how bad is the chest pain?" question. He replied, "about a 7." So I asked him what's the worst pain he ever had, to which he replied he was a SEAL in VN and had been shot multiple times, when he got out of the Navy he was a cop in Oakland and was ambushed and had his kneecaps broken by lead pipes, and the chest pain hurt worse than any of those. He was a tough old guy...very quiet, very stoic.
I echo that the for-real been-there-done-that SEALs I knew/know generally keep their yap shut unless it's around people they know. Or they get a book deal, but that's a different thread.
BoringGuy45
08-15-16, 13:12
It seemed for many years the SEALS lived a 'quiet professional' under the radar existence. While I kind of understand what brought them and other elite units into the limelight, it seems some of them have embraced the notoriety. As a result, you get hangers on.
The SEALS I met at HK in the 80's didn't particularly advertise their lineage, could have been OPSEC, could have been 'I'm here to learn so it really doesn't matter.' Likewise, the two former SEALS that I know that I helped train, didn't advertise the fact they had been SEALS. They were like 'I was in the Navy.' These guys were circa late 80's early 90's, I wonder if the general attitude has changed.
Back in the day, I had two acquaintances I met through police work. Both had been Marines, both had served in VN. One was pretty loud and obnoxious by nature, tried real hard to be a 'man's man' the other was quiet. You would have thought the one had spent his entire tour in the field being overrun. The other, never a peep.
One day I happened to be in the area where the quiet guy lived, so we met up for lunch. He had just divorced and had gotten some new digs, so we went over to his new place so he could show me. He had one bedroom fixed up as a home office/den. On the wall were some pictures from VN showing a skinny little guy with some indigenous troops, all holding various weapons. 'Who's this?' 'Oh, that's me and some of the guys I ran the trail with.' 'Bullshit, that guy looks like something you ate.' Well that lead to fishing out his boot camp book, and a scrapbook full of pictures, certificates and citations. Purple heart among them.
Unbeknownst to me, this guy had been Force Recon, navy wings, bubble, the whole bit. Wow!
There was (and apparently still is) a segment of the SOF community that still hangs on the quiet professional mentality. Some take it to an extreme. So much as accepting a handshake and a genuine "thank you for your service" from a grateful civilian means you were probably being a bit too showy with your service. Even wishing that you could get a pat on the back is being too selfish; you are to serve your country and accept NOTHING in return. Your medals are to be locked away, and all perks from winning them are to go to your family without them even knowing why they have the perks. If someone hears through the grapevine that you were a SEAL/SF/Ranger/FR Marine, etc. and asks you about it, you are supposed to lie and vehemently deny it, not out of OPSEC/PERSEC, but out of humility and honor. You are not to be proud of yourself for what you did, but proud only of what you were a part of.
I interviewed a Vietnam veteran in High school for my broadcasting class that claimed to be a SEAL. It was one of the most sobering things I ever did in High School. It really pushed me to have more respect for anyone that served than I previously had, and helped me grow up quite a bit.
My highschool (96-98) principal was former Green Beret. Served in Vietnam. In our Social Studies class he came in, dressed in his BDUs (whatever they were called back then). Told us stories about his service and what it was like in Vietnam. He even brought in his AR .....can you believe that!? Back in 1998 a principal could bring an AR and no one cared. It was without the bolt/carrier but still...
It was a really cool class
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WickedWillis
08-15-16, 13:34
My highschool (96-98) principal was former Green Beret. Served in Vietnam. In our Social Studies class he came in, dressed in his BDUs (whatever they were called back then). Told us stories about his service and what it was like in Vietnam. He even brought in his AR .....can you believe that!? Back in 1998 a principal could bring an AR and no one cared. It was without the bolt/carrier but still...
It was a really cool class
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I graduated in 05. We were able to keep our hunting rifles in our vehicles as long as we parked across the street from school lol
Two things.
1. It's awesome that these records are in the same place and available. You have an excellent policy regarding providing graduation photos and admitting WWII vets for free, etc. I can't imagine what it must be like to walk in with your grandfather and get a class photo that he hasn't seen in decades. That must be a truly profound experience.
2. It's sad that somebody raised their kids with war hero fantasies, but even though it's a lie, I probably wouldn't want to be the one to take that away from them. Certainly they should get no benefit from the deception, but if they want to walk out believing the lie then let them go with god.
The worst must be those who accept they have been lied to and then have to reconcile everything they had been told with the facts and put their entire relationship with that parent or grandparent under scrutiny. They walk in proud hoping to learn anything new about their SEAL parent or grandparent and are humiliated no matter how nice you are about it.
Finally, given how poorly Nam vets were treated by society in the 70s, it shouldn't be surprising that many of them became "SEALs" when they learned that provided a measure of respect for service. Not saying it's acceptable, but I understand why it happens.
I've heard it joked that the reason we lost Vietnam was everyone was a ranger/seal/SF etc etc and we didn't take any truck drivers or cooks to keep em in beans, bandages and bullets. Kinda unfortunate that that's a become a joke....
Of the 10,000 or so "operational" Navy Seals, I've met all 25,000 of them.
alvincullumyork
08-15-16, 13:59
Was he older?
If you were SOF in up to early 90s or a while longer you may not have know the 240.
Or if you did you called it an FN MAG.
I used one with some Dutch Marine Commandoes in PR around 87.
Called it an FN MAG until I think mid if not late 90s.
Per him he just got out just over a year ago. He couldn't take a picture with us because his identity was classified and he might be called back in. I can understand not wanting random pictures but just say that.
Like I said I don't know near enough to call someone out and probably wouldn't if I could but my bs meter was just bouncing off the redline.
I've heard it joked that the reason we lost Vietnam was everyone was a ranger/seal/SF etc etc and we didn't take any truck drivers or cooks to keep em in beans, bandages and bullets. Kinda unfortunate that that's a become a joke....
That's pretty good!
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I graduated in 05. We were able to keep our hunting rifles in our vehicles as long as we parked across the street from school lol
I graduated in 88...we kept our guns on a rack in the back window of our trucks.
On campus.
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WickedWillis
08-15-16, 14:42
I graduated in 88...we kept our guns on a rack in the back window of our trucks.
On campus.
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The local Sheriff made the rule we could not do that after Columbine.
Whenever I hear someone bragging about being a SEAL I automatically dismiss them as never being in any branch of the military and if they were I assume they were a cook or at best maintenance. It seems everybody who ever served was either a SEAL or a Ranger. Nobody ever claims to be Delta or Green Berets or MARSOC.
BoringGuy45
08-15-16, 16:25
Whenever I hear someone bragging about being a SEAL I automatically dismiss them as never being in any branch of the military and if they were I assume they were a cook or at best maintenance. It seems everybody who ever served was either a SEAL or a Ranger. Nobody ever claims to be Delta or Green Berets or MARSOC.
I haven't heard many false Ranger claims. The ones I hear the most are SEAL or Green Beret. I had one guy claim Delta once. As for Marine Raiders, I think they're too new, they don't yet have any high profile missions that mainstream America knows about, the fact that there hasn't been any movies or video games made celebrating their exploits, and the fact that a lot of people don't even know that they exist means we're not going to see any Raider posers for awhile.
The local Sheriff made the rule we could not do that after Columbine.
Yeah it was a different time for sure. Long gone.
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I graduated in 88...we kept our guns on a rack in the back window of our trucks.
On campus.
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I can remember in 81 the principal of the school checking out some of my brothers shotguns that he had in the trunk because the principal was considering the purchase of an 1100 and wanted to see one in person.
My brother regularly went duck hunting after school so just kept his stuff in the trunk. The principal got involved in a conversation about duck hunting during the day and that is when he learned my brother had an 1100 right out in the parking lot and the principal asked if he could see it after school.
Different time, different world.
I remember in '83 having a CAR-15 and a HK93 with an ammo can full of 5.56 in the back of my Blazer at school because the shooting range was 5 minutes from school.
I have only run into one Stolen Valor type, but didn't claim SEAL status, and he was at the mall in Albuquerque. He was slightly overweight, in ACUs and I noticed from a distance he still had his cover on (while inside). I wanted to know more so I followed him until he sat down. He had the rank of a SFC, senior parachutist badge, air assault school badge and the combat infantryman's badge. He had the ranger tab and the patch of the 1st I.D. He was wearing the IR reflective flag patch in CONUS as opposed to full color.
I sat next to the guy and started chit chat and told him I was retired Army. He told me he had been everywhere and done everything. I asked some questions about his experiences during Air Assault School, and he couldn't give me anything concrete. I then mentioned that I did AAS at Fort Campbell in July 1983. I mentioned he should remove his cover while inside and he explained that he forgot, and he had been injured by an IED in Iraq and he had brain damage and PTSD. He thanked me for reminding him. I got sick of sitting next to the dude and I walked off. F*%^ing POS.
MountainRaven
08-15-16, 17:48
I haven't heard many false Ranger claims. The ones I hear the most are SEAL or Green Beret. I had one guy claim Delta once. As for Marine Raiders, I think they're too new, they don't yet have any high profile missions that mainstream America knows about, the fact that there hasn't been any movies or video games made celebrating their exploits, and the fact that a lot of people don't even know that they exist means we're not going to see any Raider posers for awhile.
I've seen guys claim to be Recon Marines in front of people I assumed to be their children.
While I normally would simply take folks at their word, this guy looked like he had never been in good enough shape to be a Marine, let alone a Recon Marine, and he claimed to have been issued a Desert Eagle and Barrett M82 (worth $1500, according to him) that the Corps gave him when he left the service.
Two things.
1. It's awesome that these records are in the same place and available. You have an excellent policy regarding providing graduation photos and admitting WWII vets for free, etc. I can't imagine what it must be like to walk in with your grandfather and get a class photo that he hasn't seen in decades. That must be a truly profound experience.
2. It's sad that somebody raised their kids with war hero fantasies, but even though it's a lie, I probably wouldn't want to be the one to take that away from them. Certainly they should get no benefit from the deception, but if they want to walk out believing the lie then let them go with god.
As mentioned, I generally do. I go the "well maybe he's in another book we didn't check" approach which gives them the emotional out to save their pride and decide for themselves if perhaps they were told a tall tail. Others however can be very blunt about it and are not of the feelings protecting personality type, especially if the person gives some attitude about it.
The worst must be those who accept they have been lied to and then have to reconcile everything they had been told with the facts and put their entire relationship with that parent or grandparent under scrutiny. They walk in proud hoping to learn anything new about their SEAL parent or grandparent and are humiliated no matter how nice you are about it.
I have seen some defected looks indeed. When I started there, I figured that was more the occasional thing. Now I realize it's more common than not sadly. Me, it depends mostly on the attitude given. I'd prefer to allow them a little wiggle room to protect that fantasy, but I was not NSW and don't take it personally that they were told a lie.
Finally, given how poorly Nam vets were treated by society in the 70s, it shouldn't be surprising that many of them became "SEALs" when they learned that provided a measure of respect for service. Not saying it's acceptable, but I understand why it happens.
Makes sense. I have not noted it to be era specific so far. Plenty of phony "grandpa was a Frog Man" comers too I can tell.
I have seen some defected looks indeed. When I started there, I figured that was more the occasional thing. Now I realize it's more common than not sadly. Me, it depends mostly on the attitude given. I'd prefer to allow them a little wiggle room to protect that fantasy, but I was not NSW and don't take it personally that they were told a lie.
Well that is what decent people do until they deal with it so many times they learn to hate everyone.
Honestly, if they aren't trying to gain money or political office it's almost a form of flattery. It's like a kid dressing up as Batman because he loves Batman and everything he represents. I think they should sell "booster" or "supporter" tabs for these guys to put on their BDU's. Then they can dress up just like a SEAL, buy the correct "civie tabs" for $50 and their Trident can have the words "Volunteer" under it.
If I were President I'd offer weekend SEAL courses where interested civilians can run around and make sugar cookies just like the real deal guys for a couple hundred bucks. We can call the program "Bud Light."
Two things.
1. It's awesome that these records are in the same place and available. You have an excellent policy regarding providing graduation photos and admitting WWII vets for free, etc. I can't imagine what it must be like to walk in with your grandfather and get a class photo that he hasn't seen in decades. That must be a truly profound experience.
2. It's sad that somebody raised their kids with war hero fantasies, but even though it's a lie, I probably wouldn't want to be the one to take that away from them. Certainly they should get no benefit from the deception, but if they want to walk out believing the lie then let them go with god.
The worst must be those who accept they have been lied to and then have to reconcile everything they had been told with the facts and put their entire relationship with that parent or grandparent under scrutiny. They walk in proud hoping to learn anything new about their SEAL parent or grandparent and are humiliated no matter how nice you are about it.
Finally, given how poorly Nam vets were treated by society in the 70s, it shouldn't be surprising that many of them became "SEALs" when they learned that provided a measure of respect for service. Not saying it's acceptable, but I understand why it happens.
Magnum PI probably didn't help.
I called out s fellow cop a few years ago. He is a lying POS. I posted a photo of a Combat Action Ribbon on FB and tagged my fellow Marine buddies I knew earned it with me. It's the highest award I earned and I'm proud of it. The guy posts his looks a little different. I asked if he had a second award. He said he had two stars indicating a third award. He went on to say he had a V for Valor on his CAR! That the V was issued after Dessert Storm/Shield. BullShit! He offered to show me his DD214. I told him to show his boss. I asked how/where. He went on and on about being in Recon and how many of his awards and medals were issued and in mass formation and then taken back for OPSEC. They were never entered into his DD214. I did some research and there was no way he could have earned three CARS in the 4-5 years he was on active duty. After doing some research I reached out to his Chief, Sheriff and the local Prosecutor. The Sheriff kept him on the PD didn't. The SA, a retired Army LTC, didn't take a position. If the guy was lying in a bar to pick up chicks I would have probably kept my mouth shut. He is a cop and the fact that he lied about his service really bothered me. He and the Sheriff came to meet with me at work one day to go over the issues I'd called him on. I nicely told him I was calling BullShit! I still see him a few times a month and have a tough time even acknowledging him.
by virtue of my job in army aviation I've had occasion to work with several guys over the years who prior service in the 160th. user reps to make sure we engineering weenies understood how they actually use the aircraft.
the one thing all those guys had in common is they didn't run their mouth about what they did unnecessarily. if something they did on mission in service was pertinent to the problem we were working, they'd tell you but otherwise they kept their mouth shut....
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BoringGuy45
08-15-16, 21:44
I've seen guys claim to be Recon Marines in front of people I assumed to be their children.
While I normally would simply take folks at their word, this guy looked like he had never been in good enough shape to be a Marine, let alone a Recon Marine, and he claimed to have been issued a Desert Eagle and Barrett M82 (worth $1500, according to him) that the Corps gave him when he left the service.
I've heard a few posers claiming to be Recon Marines as Recon obviously been around for awhile, and they've had some recognition by Hollywood and the video game world (The Rock, Call of Duty, etc). One of the weirdest ones I ever heard was a guy who said that his friend was a former armorer for FR, and was required to be armed at all times, in all places in the world, even though he was retired. The reason was that at any given moment, CIA or FBI agents could walk up to him and say "your country needs you," and he would be whisked away to [CLASSIFIED]. If he was caught without a weapon on him, he would be dishonorably discharged. I really don't know why he told me this, as he wasn't claiming this about himself and he wasn't trying to get anything out of us. I also don't know why a person would lie to his friend about being an armorer for Force Recon rather than lie about an operating FR marine.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-15-16, 21:50
One of my friends at work has a very good friend who says he is a former "black ops" soldier. He says that his friend cannot be sedated medically without consent from "men in suits" due to the things he knows. Makes me just nod my head and say "ok".
Another co worker has a friend who is one of America's most killing-est sniper. Killed three guys...one bullet. Nod and "ok".
Back in the nineties, a friend of mine and I had some fun with an acquaintance of his that claimed to be an Army Ranger sniper and missed getting his paratrooper wings by one jump because of his knees.
When I got more time, I'll share the story if anyone is interested
by virtue of my job in army aviation I've had occasion to work with several guys over the years who prior service in the 160th. user reps to make sure we engineering weenies understood how they actually use the aircraft.
the one thing all those guys had in common is they didn't run their mouth about what they did unnecessarily. if something they did on mission in service was pertinent to the problem we were working, they'd tell you but otherwise they kept their mouth shut....
Certainly you aren't inferring that us aviators operated our equipment outside of performance charts and parameters? :rolleyes:
MountainRaven
08-15-16, 22:47
I've heard a few posers claiming to be Recon Marines as Recon obviously been around for awhile, and they've had some recognition by Hollywood and the video game world (The Rock, Call of Duty, etc). One of the weirdest ones I ever heard was a guy who said that his friend was a former armorer for FR, and was required to be armed at all times, in all places in the world, even though he was retired. The reason was that at any given moment, CIA or FBI agents could walk up to him and say "your country needs you," and he would be whisked away to [CLASSIFIED]. If he was caught without a weapon on him, he would be dishonorably discharged. I really don't know why he told me this, as he wasn't claiming this about himself and he wasn't trying to get anything out of us. I also don't know why a person would lie to his friend about being an armorer for Force Recon rather than lie about an operating FR marine.
Don't forget John Cena as... The Marine. WWE movies: The only place where a mid-2000's Recon Marine benched for rescuing some Marines taken hostage ends up as a mall cop rather than being poached by a PMC. (The only reason I saw it was because I had a roommate who was really into the WWE at the time and he paid for my ticket.)
It will be interesting to see if this changes somewhat with Frank Castle/The Punisher now being in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Originally, Frank was a Marine, went FR, then joined the SEALs (this being around the time period of Vietnam - like how Tony Stark was originally captured and made his Mk1 Iron Man suit in Vietnam, not in Afghanistan as in the MCU). So far, they've only touched on his service as a Marine, but presumably MCU's Frank Castle went FR then MARSOC (then maybe DEVGRU). If they (eventually) state that MCU's Frank Castle went that route, I'd be expecting a bunch of overweight dudes in Punisher skull t-shrts to start claiming to be former MARSOC/Marine Raiders.
Although the good news there is that we probably won't see much of MCU Frank Castle until Netflix gets the first season of The Punisher in 2017 (unless they put him in The Defenders, Jessica Jones S2, Luke Cage, The Iron Fist, or Daredevil S3... or they put some of the guys from the small screen into The Avengers 3 or do cross-overs from the Netflix series with the ABC series) and therefore MARSOC posers should remain sparse on the ground.
I love it when you hear something like I was a seal ranger delta (take your pic) guy but I cant talk about it !!!!!
One of the guys I work with at our local rifle range is an honest to god Mac V SOG recon team vet. He lives to screw with folks that falsely claim veteran status.
Just the other day we had a guy there sporting a Vietnam Vet hat that was in his mid 50's. The math don't work out there sport.
I've never been inclined to even wear anything Army related since I retired. Not even for military funerals or reunions with my old units. I just don't see the need for it. I lived it and now I have moved on. Recently I showed my two youngest kids my Army Dress Mess uniform hanging up in a bedroom closet. My 17 year old son said it looked like a Matador outfit with all that braid on the sleeves.
I can remember in 81 the principal of the school checking out some of my brothers shotguns that he had in the trunk because the principal was considering the purchase of an 1100 and wanted to see one in person.
My brother regularly went duck hunting after school so just kept his stuff in the trunk. The principal got involved in a conversation about duck hunting during the day and that is when he learned my brother had an 1100 right out in the parking lot and the principal asked if he could see it after school.
Different time, different world.
I remember in '83 having a CAR-15 and a HK93 with an ammo can full of 5.56 in the back of my Blazer at school because the shooting range was 5 minutes from school.
Yes it was indeed a different world.
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In the 1980's? Heck, even sporting goods stores in the malls, Woolworths, etc. sold AR-15's.
every seal I met , never bragged about it.
Every wannabe bragged about it sadly.
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-16-16, 11:36
every seal I met , never bragged about it.
Every wannabe bragged about it sadly.
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Except for all those with movie deals, book rights, talkshow appointments, NRA board positions, etc.
militarymoron
08-16-16, 11:51
Another co worker has a friend who is one of America's most killing-est sniper. Killed three guys...one bullet. Nod and "ok".
Was his friend's name 'Deadpool'?
Was his friend's name 'Deadpool'?
Nah, he was so CLASSIFIED, he learned how to shoot from these guys.
http://images.contentful.com/7h71s48744nc/4nlUPpVu3YMAAue6mW84UK/b76ff839bb9d94902f2930bedc188176/wanted.jpg
Dontcha kno' they made a movie bout them? But the stuff they did was so elite, they CLASSIFIED it, and one of the old operators wrote this movie script. This movie really happened, but after the guy got his training on how to curve bullets.
one of America's most killing-est sniper. Killed three guys...one bullet. .
That was actually on the history channel. US sniper shot at 3 hadjis hiding behind a brick/cinder block wall with a 50BMG. The round going through the wall turned chunks into shrapnel. Got all 3 guys with technically one shot
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That's just sad. I could never imagine pretending to be something I'm not, especially something that is so respected as military service.
Sure I bought some BDUs to play paintball in cause it was cheap and I didn't have cloths I didn't mind ruining, but I wasn't about to dress myself and go to the mall like that. WTF.
I think it would kill me to learn that my Grandfather and Great Grandfather lied about their WW2 activities. Luckily their stories aren't exciting enough to be lies.
That was actually on the history channel. US sniper shot at 3 hadjis hiding behind a brick/cinder block wall with a 50BMG. The round going through the wall turned chunks into shrapnel. Got all 3 guys with technically one shot
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I thought it was two guys? Unless we are thinking of different shots.
Certainly you aren't inferring that us aviators operated our equipment outside of performance charts and parameters? :rolleyes:
Wellllllll.....usually it was more along the lines of "does this piece of equipment actually help you accomplish the mission" but I have processed more than a few repairs that seem to appear out of "nowhere" lol
I thought it was two guys? Unless we are thinking of different shots.
Was it the guy shooting from a oil tower from a mile away?
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Was it the guy shooting from a oil tower from a mile away?
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No, the one i was thinking of was in a city, two spotters, first shot i think went low or high. couple hours later spotters return, sniper got his dope squared and sent both assholes to the gates. don't recall him firing from an oil tower. been a while.
That was actually on the history channel. US sniper shot at 3 hadjis hiding behind a brick/cinder block wall with a 50BMG. The round going through the wall turned chunks into shrapnel. Got all 3 guys with technically one shot
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Technically, but not really the same thing in my opinion. Otherwise, shooting a block of tannerite that sets off a gun-type nuclear bomb that levels a city could be claimed as 1 bullet 200,000 kills.
One of my friends at work has a very good friend who says he is a former "black ops" soldier. He says that his friend cannot be sedated medically without consent from "men in suits" due to the things he knows. Makes me just nod my head and say "ok".
Another co worker has a friend who is one of America's most killing-est sniper. Killed three guys...one bullet. Nod and "ok".
I might be the original Jason Bourne. About 10 years ago I decided to see if my PLF skills were still intact and did the slide for life off a metal roof. I had never been able to do a rear PLF for shit, so why I oriented myself for one on this exercise is a mystery to me. I hit heels, hands, head. Apparently from the beginning it was a hoot, I don't remember anything of it. I'm told my son had to lay on me to keep me from getting up. When the firemen asked me what happened I responded 'WTF do you think, I fell of the roof.'
At the hospital they are rolling me in for an MRI. Apparently even in my disoriented state I realized the needle in my arm was for some type of drug, because reportedly I said 'Are you giving me drugs? You cant do that I know secrets.' One of my friends, a Sergeant on the SO, heard this and made it a point to raze me unmercifully on visits.
I do not know where the freak that statement came from, maybe I am the original Jason Bourne.
Technically, but not really the same thing in my opinion. Otherwise, shooting a block of tannerite that sets off a gun-type nuclear bomb that levels a city could be claimed as 1 bullet 200,000 kills.
https://youtu.be/XSBE7AJubQ0
The shot is at the 5:30 mark
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If a total stranger feels the need to tell you their military history, walk away.
brickboy240
08-16-16, 14:11
The family members I have that served and saw real combat and scary shit firsthand are VERY quiet about their service. They don't wear shirts with military logos or have tons of decals on their cars and don't talk about it much. Oh there might be a medal or flag or other object framed in an extra room in their houses but that is about it. Only one has a tattoo of the 82nd on his upper arm but again...no real advertisements.
I was shocked when I got too look through my great uncle's squadron photo books, after he passed. He was a navigator in a B-24 squadron. We all knew he was in the Army Air Corps and that he was on the B-24s but the stories the photo album showed were amazing. Again...he never really talked about it and did NOT consider what he did heroic at all.
So when some go around advertising or telling their service stories at the bar or gun counters, I sort of blow them off.
That is usually a dead giveaway they did not serve at all or were in a supply convoy or some other non-fighting group.
The family members I have that served and saw real combat and scary shit firsthand are VERY quiet about their service. They don't wear shirts with military logos or have tons of decals on their cars and don't talk about it much. Oh there might be a medal or flag or other object framed in an extra room in their houses but that is about it. Only one has a tattoo of the 82nd on his upper arm but again...no real advertisements.
I was shocked when I got too look through my great uncle's squadron photo books, after he passed. He was a navigator in a B-24 squadron. We all knew he was in the Army Air Corps and that he was on the B-24s but the stories the photo album showed were amazing. Again...he never really talked about it and did NOT consider what he did heroic at all.
So when some go around advertising or telling their service stories at the bar or gun counters, I sort of blow them off.
That is usually a dead giveaway they did not serve at all or were in a supply convoy or some other non-fighting group.
And what's more, if that's the job those people did, why not be proud of THAT service instead of making stuff up. OK, so you "just" drove a truck, if you didn't drive that truck, some infantryman might have gone without ammo or water or something else critical to staying in the fight. If you did the job you were assigned and did it well then be honestly proud of it....
I dunno. I'd rather remember my old man as the guy who cooked me ham and cheese sandwiches and playing catch with me than as some dude knife killing some slant eyed teenager too stupid to get out of communist conscription.
But that's just me.
And what's more, if that's the job those people did, why not be proud of THAT service instead of making stuff up. OK, so you "just" drove a truck, if you didn't drive that truck, some infantryman might have gone without ammo or water or something else critical to staying in the fight. If you did the job you were assigned and did it well then be honestly proud of it....
The line I use with most people is that I piloted an armed aerial taxi during the first 11 years of my career, without going into explaining the FRIES system. After that just an aerial scout.
And usmcvet's post reminded me of a brush I had, I guess of "stolen valor", with another police.
It was some dude from another agency who was doing honor guard for an annual memorial they had at GPSTC. I was dressed kinda casually because I had an indoors class and after paying respects. we got to do lunch break.
I wasn't hungry so I retreated to the smoke area and dude hits me up for a red. I look at his uniform, and to his credit he did look pretty strack, and he had that gay Navy SEAL Trident looking SWAT pin and a gold Police Countersniper pin.
There are only two places pretty much that offer the Countersniper course. I asked him when he took it and if he knew such and such. Because Such and such was a badass instructor. And if you didn't learn anything, then you were being willfully ignorant.
Then he says "I went to Marine Sniper School in Quantico".
So I ask "Oh you were a Marine?"
No.
"You were in the FBI and decided to be a local homeboy?"
No.
So I ask how or why did his dept send him to Marine Sniper School
"That's classified". No joking. No grinning. No jerking your chain. Dead serious.
"Um I dunno dude. ALL of your training is subpeonable. Ain't no such thing as Top Secret in policework. If you went to just a dept 'sniper school' or something just say it. I was more curious if you had Instructor Such and such, because he was a badass. I wasn't mistaking you for Carlos Hathcock or anything."
Dude got pissy and redfaced and said "um yeah whatever." and marched off with his little group.
To me a school or class is just a class. You'll always be just the cops to everybody else. I've gotten to take some fun classes, some not so fun classes, and classes that kicked my ass.
But I never thought it made me Top Secret or cool. It's just a job.
And if dude is reading this, I still think you're a douche.
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