View Full Version : Yet another poly contender?
I haven't seen this before, but it looks interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgmgxIGPq1w
Kindof a DA/SA and LEM blend. Restrike. Low bore axis.
I haven't seen this before, but it looks interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgmgxIGPq1w
Kindof a DA/SA and LEM blend. Restrike. Low bore axis.
I want a Schmeisser now...
Looks pretty awesome.
Not sure I completely understand how the trigger system works. If the second shot is more like SA, is there a decocking function?
Sounds like it might be a pre-cocking mechanism. Maybe on the reset it uses spring pressure to "half-cock" it and the trigger pull is the remaining pull.
It didn't appear to be a different trigger pull by much, but it's hard to determine in video.
call_me_ski
08-16-16, 15:46
Looks like a re-brand of this gun:
http://www.tara-perfection.com/tm-9/
Looks like it is a Montenegrin design; not German.
Marketed by Chermans, made in Montenegro. I think.
Looks like a re-brand of this gun:
http://www.tara-perfection.com/tm-9/
Looks like it is a Montenegrin design; not German.
Marketed by Chermans, made in Montenegro. I think.
https://www.all4shooters.com/en/mobile/Shooting/pistols/Schmeisser-Germany-GmbH-SLP9-semi-automatic-pistol-9x19mm/
Yup, you're both right about that.
Trigger reminds me of a Walther P99 AS without the decocker.
This interested me:
Night sights of any renowned manufacturer can be used on the standardized dovetail mounting system.
That's an incredibly generic statement.
wildcard600
08-16-16, 19:32
Pretty cool. Kinda looks like a Glock some hints of HK esque lines.
Interesting. I noticed when he was describing the second strike capability the slide starts to move as he squeezed the trigger. Almost like it was prematurely unlocking. That can't be a plus for accuracy though, right?
Also heard him say something about them making AR -15's.
call_me_ski
08-16-16, 21:11
If it is also a re-branded Tara ar15 than it has a polymer lower. I doubt that the Montenegrins have cracked the code on a good polymer lower for an AR15. Nothing to see here.
Trigger reminds me of a Walther P99 AS without the decocker.
This interested me:
That's an incredibly generic statement.
Click on the Tara website, they are obviously Glock sights.
Trigger looks cool. I do really wish there was a hammer or striker block equivalent to pin with your thumb as you reholster.
Pistol looks interesting. The sales rep guy was terrible though.
Click on the Tara website, they are obviously Glock sights.
They can't be Glock sights. The front is dovetailed like the majority of pistols on the market. Sights that fit a Sig might fit but Glock sights would not.
Trigger reminds me of a Walther P99 AS without the decocker.
This interested me:
That's an incredibly generic statement.
Which means if you simply let out the trigger fully, you get back into DA - kinda like the LEM from HK - this is pretty cool. If the DA is light and smooth, I might look into this. Then there is the whole holster, mags, etc. issue.
More: http://calibremag.ca/new-gun-preview-schmeisser-slp-9/
Of course I think the P99 is the best looking polymer gun extant.
Trigger specs look nice:
https://www.all4shooters.com/en/Shooting/pistols/Schmeisser-Germany-GmbH-SLP9-semi-automatic-pistol-9x19mm/
Marketed by Chermans, made in Montenegro. I think.
So a German XD? :p
Looks interesting regardless....
Mysteryman
08-17-16, 21:58
Second strike is a bullshit marketing gimmick. Aside from that it's just another Glock wannabe..
MM
I'll admit second strike is more hype than not, although if you train for it, its better than racking. Under stress, you can induce a jam. BUT, DA/SA with a smooth and fairly light (8LB) DA to start is not hype, and provides a different capability.
Mysteryman
08-18-16, 21:17
I'll admit second strike is more hype than not, although if you train for it, its better than racking. Under stress, you can induce a jam. BUT, DA/SA with a smooth and fairly light (8LB) DA to start is not hype, and provides a different capability.
Second strike has the potential to solve 1 of 4 possible problems. That problem is a hard primer which is not guaranteed to go off after a second strike or a third or a fourth. If you encounter a type one stoppage(click instead of bang) the most likely cause is an empty chamber caused by an unseated magazine. Pulling the trigger a second time will not solve the problem. If your slide is out of battery a second pull of the trigger will not solve the problem. If your pistol is broken(broke firing pin) a second pull of the trigger will not solve the problem. If your ammo is just plain shit(poor quality, missing a primer etc) a second pull of the trigger will not solve the problem. An immediate action drill (TAP RACK) will solve all the above with the exception of a broken firearm. In that case it will however give you more data in determining what/why your gun is not working. Any instructor, school, Academy, etc worth their salt does not teach the stupidity that is "second strike capability".
Stress can induce a million things. Stress can cause you to attempt to pull the trigger endlessly, if you don't train around it. Stop worrying about the "what ifs" and train more and practice more.
As for the "advantage" of the DA/SA trigger, there isn't any. A single consistent trigger pull coupled with sound gun handling skills is all that is needed. The heavy DA trigger (liability trigger) is great for LE departments that want to shave their training budgets and employ people across a broader spectrum of intelligence. When you need to shoot to defend life you need to shoot now, and having a consistent trigger from shot to shot makes training easier and performance more consistent.
MM
Find ManBearPig!
08-19-16, 00:47
As for the "advantage" of the DA/SA trigger, there isn't any.
I hate to be "that guy", but when I first read this, I distinctly remembered an SME on this site in a previous thread discussing the usefulness of a second strike capability. So, I went back, and I found what he said:
Not trying to be a smartass, but is that really something y'all practice? I hear it all the time when folks try to justify a hammer fired pistol, but all my training has been to tap/rack when the gun doesn't go bang. I've trained with Defoor twice and he didn't mention the second strike option. Seems like a waste of valuable time.
That is a legit question.
It isn't something that necessarily needs to be "practiced" as it is simply a mechanical "back up" option to the Hammer DA guns.
Why have it?
Having both hands available isn't a guarantee.
Example- if an operator is on a caving ladder as the lead climber and he needs at least one hand on that ladder to clear his dead space in a VBSS/Maritime Scenerio, or he looses the ability to use his support hand from injury.
RE: Doing a "tap rack bang" drill while escalating a 50' caving ladder, at night, while underway on a moving vessel isn't going to happen without the operator ending up in "the drink." That scenario is unlikely to most people outside military or special operations; so I can see how a different mindset may develope in regards to those who don't live, train, and operate outside of the box.
I'm nowhere near close to being an expert on using pistols, but I think what Rana says above makes sense, at least to me personally. On the other hand, it's also worth noting that Rana also stated a lot of the situations that he feels second strike is useful are unlikely to occur for your average Joe. All that said, I'm not looking to turn this thread into a debate on the merits of DA/SA triggers vs. other options, I just wanted to provide a contrasting opinion from a high quality source, as per the spirit of this site. Gotta have those multiple viewpoints, if you want objective discussions, you know? :p
-------------------------------------------------
Back on topic...
If I'm understanding this correctly, one of the main selling points of this the trigger mechanism, which is a relatively light DA system with a short reset to make follow up shots easier, right? If so, would it be wrong to say that Schmeisser's trigger is similar in concept to the H&K LEM triggers? As I mentioned above, I'm not a pistol expert by any means, so I'd be interested to here what those better versed in handguns then me have to say. I do know there are a lot of guys (and gals) out there who really like the LEM system for a defensive carry gun, so I could potentially see the Schmeisser, it the trigger setup is indeed similar, finding favor with them, assuming of course the lack of a physical hammer isn't a deal breaker for them. (Which, from what I understand, it might very well be.)
So whatever happened to this gun?
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RAM Engineer
02-14-17, 22:38
So whatever happened to this gun?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dPvWl2pcBo
http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/shot-show-2017-shotguns-innovative-designs/
brickboy240
02-15-17, 11:41
A German XD with a funky trigger system?
...pass
A German XD with a funky trigger system?
...pass
With the soon to be released CZ I remembered there was a thread about another new German gun. Found the thread and was just curious as to what happened to the gun. I'd possibly buy it if I found a used one for cheap. Otherwise I really don't have a use for yet another full size gun. I have a plethora of them in the safe already that I barely use
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brickboy240
02-15-17, 12:03
CZ seem to come out with a new auto-pistol every year or two. Then there is the Canik and a few other striker guns out there.
I cannot keep up with all of these new pistols.
Will there be a compact version or maybe a 45?
Cagemonkey
02-15-17, 20:12
After watching The MAC do some extreme reliability testing on the SIG 320 and others, it seems that the Second Strike Option on a Striker fired Pistol is a legitimate feature.
brickboy240
02-16-17, 09:04
If there is to be a "Glock killer" among the new striker pistols, the P320 stands the best chance of being that gun.
The Glock killer is probably not going to come from some up-start company that puts a German or American name on their gun and makes it in a former East Bloc country, ala Springfield XD or Schmeisser or whomever.
556BlackRifle
02-16-17, 11:25
If there is to be a "Glock killer" among the new striker pistols, the P320 stands the best chance of being that gun.
The Glock killer is probably not going to come from some up-start company that puts a German or American name on their gun and makes it in a former East Bloc country, ala Springfield XD or Schmeisser or whomever.
I agree. I'm a Glock guy. Got my first Glock (G22) in 1992. Since then I've owned 6 Glocks. My current EDC is a G19 and or G43. I've never been a fan of any other striker (or hammer) fired polymer pistol until the Sig P320. I do not shoot it as well as I shoot my G19 yet but when I feel comfortable enough, I plan to give it a try as my primary EDC. I love the way it feels in my hand and I love the trigger pull. If it continues to perform and carries as well as my G19, it will replace it. In the short time that I've owned my P320, I've already met two converts. Now with the military contract, I think it's likely to snowball. My $0.02 YMMV.
556BlackRifle
02-16-17, 11:51
After watching The MAC do some extreme reliability testing on the SIG 320 and others, it seems that the Second Strike Option on a Striker fired Pistol is a legitimate feature.
I've watched his videos and while that testing is on the extreme end of what most of us will encounter in everyday life. It seems like a valid test for a military weapon and hell yeah, I'd like my weapon to do well in that test. :) That said, second strike capability goes against many years of training. (Tap Rack Bang)
Cagemonkey
02-16-17, 19:24
I've watched his videos and while that testing is on the extreme end of what most of us will encounter in everyday life. It seems like a valid test for a military weapon and hell yeah, I'd like my weapon to do well in that test. :) That said, second strike capability goes against many years of training. (Tap Rack Bang)I agree that training and muscle memory will overcome the malfunction. Good point.
Cagemonkey
02-16-17, 19:35
If there is to be a "Glock killer" among the new striker pistols, the P320 stands the best chance of being that gun.
The Glock killer is probably not going to come from some up-start company that puts a German or American name on their gun and makes it in a former East Bloc country, ala Springfield XD or Schmeisser or whomever.Glocks are great guns, but their evolution has been slow and back and forth. Most aren't a fan of the finger groves and many find the Gen 2's to be great guns minus the rail. I love the texture on the Gen 4, but the grip customization was pretty lame. The Glock trigger was a big step in its day, but fully cocked strikers like the SIG 320 and HK P9, are a vast improvement in trigger pull. The grip angle is a little steep and most newer guns use an angle more natural and comfortable. Eventually Glocks reputation isn't going to be enough. Will be interesting to see how LE sales end up in the future. Just my 2 cents.
Mysteryman
02-17-17, 00:59
Glocks are great guns, but their evolution has been slow and back and forth. Most aren't a fan of the finger groves and many find the Gen 2's to be great guns minus the rail. I love the texture on the Gen 4, but the grip customization was pretty lame. The Glock trigger was a big step in its day, but fully cocked strikers like the SIG 320 and HK P9, are a vast improvement in trigger pull. The grip angle is a little steep and most newer guns use an angle more natural and comfortable. Eventually Glocks reputation isn't going to be enough. Will be interesting to see how LE sales end up in the future. Just my 2 cents.
Honestly the finger tab whining is bullshit, and if you really don't like them they come off easily with some sandpaper or a file. The appeal and primary design feature of the Glock is the safe double action. Comparing a single action striker fired gun to a double action striker fired gun is not a fair comparison. That being said the 320 still has a heavier trigger pull and a very faint/lame reset. The HK VP9(I presume that was the one you are referring to) is also a single action striker fired gun which has a much nicer reset but still has a 5.5lbs trigger which is identical to the double action only Glock trigger. Not really anything to boast about when a single action gun has the same trigger pull as a double action. The grip angle on a Glock is near perfect for the physiological design of the human hand/wrist and is very similar to that of a revolver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT2DdFSuMi8&t=22s start at 6:20 if you don't want to watch it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro7N7dAmjLY start at 4:45 and note the angle difference in the wrist.
MM
Cagemonkey
02-18-17, 20:18
Honestly the finger tab whining is bullshit, and if you really don't like them they come off easily with some sandpaper or a file. The appeal and primary design feature of the Glock is the safe double action. Comparing a single action striker fired gun to a double action striker fired gun is not a fair comparison. That being said the 320 still has a heavier trigger pull and a very faint/lame reset. The HK VP9(I presume that was the one you are referring to) is also a single action striker fired gun which has a much nicer reset but still has a 5.5lbs trigger which is identical to the double action only Glock trigger. Not really anything to boast about when a single action gun has the same trigger pull as a double action. The grip angle on a Glock is near perfect for the physiological design of the human hand/wrist and is very similar to that of a revolver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT2DdFSuMi8&t=22s start at 6:20 if you don't want to watch it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro7N7dAmjLY start at 4:45 and note the angle difference in the wrist.
MMIf one bases the grip angle on holding the pistol with one hand, with a outstretched, near straight arm, your argument is correct. The Glock grip angle is very similar to the German Luger. When holding a pistol with two hands in a more modern Weaver or Fighting stance, the grip angle changes. Ken Hackathorne mentions grip angle in this Grip force Vid; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsqWaoasNwo
I've watched his videos and while that testing is on the extreme end of what most of us will encounter in everyday life. It seems like a valid test for a military weapon and hell yeah, I'd like my weapon to do well in that test. :) That said, second strike capability goes against many years of training. (Tap Rack Bang)
This is not a ding on any person in this thread who has mentioned that "testing," but is simply a comment about that "testing."
It's NOT "testing." It is goofball antics to generate YouTube activity and therefore revenue, which I'm sure it does well. REAL testing involves samples of groups, not one. It involves scientifically repeatable steps. Nothing in those videos falls into the categories of repeatable or cohort.
I don't care what people find entertaining. Those videos should be viewed as entertainment only. The only real info to be gleaned from the "torture tests" is that he doesn't mind destroying a sample of one.
That goes for every other neck-beard (actual or mental) on YouTube doing this kind of stuff. I'm glad that more people are getting exposure to guns, but it's hard to argue against the left that we are a bunch of mindless rednecks when there are so many folks like this on YouTube.
Heybo, watch me throw this gun against a log.
Heybo, watch me shoot this gun until the hand guards melt.
Heybo, watch me do some other silly jive with a fake accent.
Capitalism is the best, and many of these folks are making money which I applaud them for, but let's not pretend like all these folks are providing any type of real info or anything besides humor. YouTube needs more folks like Colion Noir and less wannabe beard.
REAL testing involves samples of groups, not one. It involves scientifically repeatable steps. Nothing in those videos falls into the categories of repeatable or cohort.
While not completely scientific, the evaluation of one sample does provide valuable information. If we were only able to have testing that involves multiple samples of the same gun, then we wouldn't have testing because nobody can afford to by multiples of each type of firearm being compared and the manufacturers certainly are not going to donate them. Some testing is obviously more representative of reality than other testing, so just use your judgment when viewing.
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