View Full Version : Riot preperation and course of action?
The US has seen a surge in riots and civil unrest over the past few years, some suggest that riots could continue and develop into bigger- a wide spread national epidemic. We have seen how bad local riots can be with a simple court decision or some kind of racial motivated outburst like Baltimore, Milwaukee, Cincinnati and 3 times in Ferguson. Suppose something like this develops on a national level or at least a violent outburst in your hometown, how would you respond to a situation like that?
Hypothetical situation:
Election results are in- wide spread civil unrest, the country is split down the middle 50/50. Anger turns into violent protest which leads to rioting, vandalism and luting that last 5-7 days, every LEO is on the street. Hourly damages to businesses, traffic equipment, streets and cars exceeds $5 million/hour. Your city becomes a State of Emergency. What do you do? Do you leave town? Do you hold your home down? Or just go on business as usual?
I want something other that "ill get my gun" macho talk but a real coarse of action you might take.
Epitaph on a Squad of Officers
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their police calling,
And took their wages, and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay.
That may be a badtardization of A.E. Houseman, but that's my feeling on the matter.
Sounds like a situation to "bug in", which is what I would do. Avoid leaving the home, someone awake, armed, and alert 24/7.
WickedWillis
08-16-16, 17:28
I live in one of the whitest states in the Country, and everyone is packing. I think I will be okay.
So... I have enough gear in my car to get me home. Between me and home I have 2 over passes, an affluent town, and a river. I have a "Get home" pack that has enough supplies to get me where I need to go. Now day to day, I don't have a long gun in the car, but in times of concern, the old trusty prince tennis racket bag goes in the trunk with a long gun.
Now at home, in the pacific northwest, we have plenty of water. I also have a bunch of food and supplies. For 3 to 5 days I would stay home, and repel boarders if necessary. I think we all have enough equipment to get that done.
IF I have to bug out without a car, I'll walk bike paths about 9 miles to a rural friend who is on a hobby farm. IF it is worse than that, I will drive to Yakima WA, using forest roads and avoiding the high ways.
Now that we have SBRs in WA, moving discretely with capable long guns is much easier.
In terms of bug in, I will defend the structure, the people, the animals, and the supplies. I had to have a conversation with my Buddhist/Lutheran wife about that. She now understand that someone in the garage steeling food/water during times of unrest may get treated differently than they would have been yesterday.
Finally I assume that no one is coming for me. No one will defend me, and that I will have to fend for myself. We had a power outage a couple of years ago that lasted 3 days in Seattle, and 9 days in the rural part of the area. It got pretty exciting there at the end.
I live out in the sticks, work in the city (medical field so I'd probably have to show up, wife too). We keep a handgun in all of our vehicles, that is SOP. Long gun? In TN an AR pistol is a handgun sooooo.......:rolleyes: If need be I'm covered on that legally.
At home I'm not too worried. The trash won't come out this far. If they did it'd be a BIG mistake and likely their last one.
One thing no one has mentioned so far is that at the outbreak of "problems" all 3 of our vehicles will be filled with gas. That way if gas stations are run dry or shut down we'll still be able get from Point A to Point B (at least for a little while).
WickedWillis
08-16-16, 17:56
So... I have enough gear in my car to get me home. Between me and home I have 2 over passes, an affluent town, and a river. I have a "Get home" pack that has enough supplies to get me where I need to go. Now day to day, I don't have a long gun in the car, but in times of concern, the old trusty prince tennis racket bag goes in the trunk with a long gun.
Now at home, in the pacific northwest, we have plenty of water. I also have a bunch of food and supplies. For 3 to 5 days I would stay home, and repel boarders if necessary. I think we all have enough equipment to get that done.
IF I have to bug out without a car, I'll walk bike paths about 9 miles to a rural friend who is on a hobby farm. IF it is worse than that, I will drive to Yakima WA, using forest roads and avoiding the high ways.
Now that we have SBRs in WA, moving discretely with capable long guns is much easier.
In terms of bug in, I will defend the structure, the people, the animals, and the supplies. I had to have a conversation with my Buddhist/Lutheran wife about that. She now understand that someone in the garage steeling food/water during times of unrest may get treated differently than they would have been yesterday.
Finally I assume that no one is coming for me. No one will defend me, and that I will have to fend for myself. We had a power outage a couple of years ago that lasted 3 days in Seattle, and 9 days in the rural part of the area. It got pretty exciting there at the end.
I'm 4-1/2 hours highway from Seattle, and I'm 25 minutes from dense wilderness. I hear you about your location.
I've got enough supplies in my truck at all times to get home if need be on foot or in my vehicle.
Holding it down at the house. I have enough food, bottled water, and propane for cooking should electricity become compromised to last a few weeks. I've got the ability to fortify the house and make it look unoccupied while still having long unobstructed views at all avenues of approach and quick access to vehicles with two avenues of escape out either side of the property should I have to load up and go quickly.
If I had to leave I've got go bags/bins loaded with anything the lady, dogs and I would need to quickly toss in the truck and slip out of town to my cabin up in the mountains for any amount of time. The ability to avoid almost all main city streets by taking multiple different routes to get to the highway so I can make it there. We keep the cabin well stocked with wood, food, water, meds and other supplies as well as food for dogs and gas for vehicles, atvs and generators. There aren't many places nearby and even fewer people who actually live up there full time.
I live deep enough in the burbs and far enough away from any of the businesses and places that would initially attract a large amount of chaos that I would most likely have enough time to figure out the best approach and either stay or go.
Develop a support network.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10302050_243621435845395_2848048698753133239_n.jpg?oh=3b1d6762cf940963b7b4d8fb0dcc57fc&oe=5859B9AA
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10400773_243621329178739_8369055153821100818_n.jpg?oh=336dd011fa87a13f0311c4cf2f226503&oe=5856A820
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10371527_243372379203634_8062334269758997568_n.jpg?oh=19b8c61e44aae7b4f49f5526d20e0a23&oe=584F8254
Rural Minnesota. Everyone is too busy fishing to consider rioting. That's a fantasy that is inconceivably unlikely around here.
They sent cops out to investigate every rooftop Korean who put on black PJs and a red headband but not a single followup or arrest for the numerous people caught on camera looting or giving a truck driver brain damage.
Priorities.
cougar_guy04
08-16-16, 19:35
While I don't have set TTPs for said situation, I'd have to say this:
Sounds like a situation to "bug in", which is what I would do. Avoid leaving the home, someone awake, armed, and alert 24/7.
To add on, I've got the capability to work from home so I would be doing so and would tell the wife that we're not going anywhere until things settle down. If an excursion is necessary then no one goes unarmed or alone. Also, we've got a fairly tight neighborhood so I would try to "rally the troops" to try and get as many of the willing body's to network and keep watch over the neighborhood and (as previously mentioned) use the strength in numbers if we had to leave the neighborhood.
That being said, it's a low probability event in my area and if it did, it's even lower probability that a riotous group would make it this far without going through two PDs and two Sheriff's Departments (and whatever "irregular" skirmish lines that would form up).
All in all, I wouldn't go looking for a fight and would avoid one at all costs. But if someone wants to bring the fight to my family and home then I do what it takes to protect my family and everything we've worked to build
^^^^That is why so many distrust the system and "the man".
Naturally that is politically motivated investigation. But it is the individual leo doing the leg work. The decent guy doesn't seem to catch a break. Or maybe I am seeing this wrong
sevenhelmet
08-16-16, 19:44
Put me in the "bug in" camp. We have water for a week easily, loads of food, and in my current military job, I could probably ask for emergency leave if the risks dictated it and not raise any eyebrows. So 5-7 days might suck, but I could stick it out in place. Put both cars in the garage, monitor comms via internet/phone/HAM/scanner, arm up and don protective clothing if the mob was in town, hide the kids, and make it look like nobody was home. Maybe coordinate with neighbors if there is time and they're still around. If they're not, I'd consider why, and whether I really wanted to be when the SHTF.
That said, if things are that bad locally, the big cities like LA and San Diego will be on fire, and we'd potentially end up with a refugee situation, which might require packing up and bugging out if things got bad enough. We have spare gas on hand and I rarely let my car go below half a tank, so we could make it several hundred miles without any external support, if need be. The real problem would be finding out road conditions. HAM radio would be used to try and get information prior to and during the bug, which is SOP out here for pretty much any disaster as cell networks are vulnerable to damage and don't cover all areas.
That's about it.
I am lucky enough to live in the mountains and not close to anything that could reach where a riot is concerned so I can wait it out. Length of time is not a concern either.
I do work in the city though and am prepared to do what I have to in order to get home.
Linebacker
08-16-16, 20:13
In my opinion, we are far more likely to need firepower, including long guns, in our vehicles.
They sent cops out to investigate every rooftop Korean who put on black PJs and a red headband but not a single followup or arrest for the numerous people caught on camera looting or giving a truck driver brain damage.
Priorities.
Hey, let's not get too down on the man. I studied the LA Riots, although not exhaustively, for some lesson plans I was tasked to write. If you are talking about Reginald Denny, they arrested several guys for it, and at least two went to jail. I don't recall any stories of Korean store owners getting arrested. Man, usually you are up on that stuff.
SomeOtherGuy
08-16-16, 21:21
I keep moving farther and farther away from trouble spots. If you have the option to not live in a major city, do so. I realize some people are stuck in major cities due to career or personal situation.
I travel some for business, and am very mindful of when and where. I can't avoid certain hub cities and the JFK cluster last week showed that major airports can have dumb issues. Unfortunately I don't have any viable plan during airline travel, as I'm without almost any useful form of tools while in the "secure" zone.
I used to visit cities like Chicago but am avoiding them for the time being.
If I lived in a major urban area, I would do some real detailed study of crime rates and likely trouble spots, then get to know the roads that keep me out of them and the roads that escape from them if I blunder into them. I would keep my car as reliable as possible with maintenance and necessary repairs. While I would always be armed (assuming it's legal), I would view that as the absolute last resort, and focus on avoiding trouble and escaping from it quickly. If I had a small little sporty thing I'd consider switching to a big brutish truck. My 2 cents.
We all need to be prepared for the worst case scenario and pray that the day never comes.
How would you respond if everything you worked hard to build was about to be burned to the ground? What would you do if those you love were threatened with great bodily harm by a mob or worse ? This is what the far left wants is a confrontation between tax payers and tax eaters.
thebarracuda
08-16-16, 21:37
I live in Farmtown USA. Rural at that. My only consideration is making sure everyone gets home. Then, we're dug in pretty well. Man am I glad I live in the sticks. It's different out here.
Hey, let's not get too down on the man. I studied the LA Riots, although not exhaustively, for some lesson plans I was tasked to write. If you are talking about Reginald Denny, they arrested several guys for it, and at least two went to jail. I don't recall any stories of Korean store owners getting arrested. Man, usually you are up on that stuff.
Been a minute. I thought they made no arrests per Denny. A link would be good if available, esp. sentence length.
And while no Koreans were arrested, they were indeed investigated.
Pretty much all Asian communities are tight knit and tight lipped but nonesomuch as Koreans. It can be a blessing and a curse. I don't deal with Asians much but if they ever need help they keep their cards close to the chest. Even young ones.
Korea fought in Vietnam too, and had it's fair share of vets who were known for their cruelty to the NVA/VC, and there were a lot of F.O.B.s who had come over who had received training during mandatory conscription.
Given their situation, they did everything right once they knew the police were simply not coming. People forget, the average ratio of citizen to officer is about 1:100-250 or thereabouts. Sometimes 1:1,000
Not good odds in a built up areas.
But nobody wants to say that Mr. and Mrs. John Q. may be on their own for an indeterminate amount of time.
Most people don't even have a weeks worth of food, water, or a radio. Just TV dinners and Coke. People are more connected by cellphones but what about when the battery goes and no signal or wi fi?
There is no reason for me to go anywhere. 70 miles from Las Vegas, NM with a population of 13,500, and about 80 miles from Tucumcari, NM with a population of 5,000. I'm nearly 4 miles off of a very rural two lane blacktop and 34 square miles of land surrounding the main house. If I lost power, I have about 25% capacity from solar panels, which could keep some lights on, and I have two tanks with 10,000 gallons of diesel to run generators. We would end up parking the trucks and go full equine power to save the fuel. Right now in the stable 12 horses. Freeze dried and canned food to last 5 or 6 years, but fresh fruits and vegetables would be our area we lack in despite a good sized garden spot. Plenty of beef for protein so no problems there.
All of the outside world could go to hell and we'd be able to keep some aspects of normalcy. The wife is an RN so we'd have some basic medical care.
I live in Farmtown USA. Rural at that. My only consideration is making sure everyone gets home. Then, we're dug in pretty well. Man am I glad I live in the sticks. It's different out here.
I also live in Rural Farmtown USA. My family and I can hunker down for several months no sweat. If the rioters decided to burn down a bunch of corn and soy bean fields for some reason, it would be up to me and my neighbors to take care of business because our town doesn't even have a constable, let alone a police department. That's a 0:1600 LEO:Citizen ratio.
Like you, my main concern is getting home. If drama were to start during my weekly work trip to the Southside of Chicago, that would be a issue for me. Thankfully my IL CCW permit preempts the Chicago/Cook County assault weapons and magazine bans. In the event I'm caught out on the road, I've got my Glock19 plus a well planned get-home bag. I feel like I'm moderately prepared if I need to hoof it out of Chiraq.
Semirural; natural gas for everything including a 14 KW generator; well; about 6 wks of food; topped vehicles ( incl. ATVs) plus about 50 gallons of stabilized gas; ample toilet paper (don't laugh--GREAT barter item!). The generator is great, but after the sun goes down I would be inclined to go dark and look like everybody else, instead of attracting attention. Thinking of getting a doggie for company and alarm system--although my kids' 90 pound GSD would probably fill the gap nicely. Maybe a .30-30. General level of awareness a bit less than it ought to be, but every vehicle out here comes equipped with at least one gun. Required by state law.
Probably ought to have more beer, though.
SilverBullet432
08-17-16, 00:34
I work about 30 minutes from home in the next town over. Straight highway drive. If it is blocked by rioters there are several smaller roads out in the sticks I can use to get home. It would definitely be a "bug in" scenario. I really need to stock up on non perishables.. I'm good on firepower. I live out of city limits and my neighbors tend to stick to themselves. Not too many things to vandalize around here. Loss of cell comms would be my immediate concern really.
I don't have to wonder. I've already done this one. My house was about two blocks from where they pulled Reginald Denny out of his truck. Once we saw that on the news, everyone realized it was "game on" and that's why you didn't see it again. What about the police? They were nothing but spectators for the whole thing. When we called for them, we were told that "no one was available", "no help is coming", "you are on your own". My mother asked the dispatcher what to do if they came to the door. She said, "Don't answer it". What if they kick the door down? "Run out the back". How am I supposed to out run a gang of armed young men? "Sorry ma'am. All officers are on other calls. You are on your own." Click. I never saw the police do anything but smile at the Koreans on the roof top. They seemed to admire those men. They sure as heck did nothing to stop the looting. If the police were doing any sort of policing at all during that entire week, they didn't do it in my view. Point being: You cannot rely on the police, or any other government type entity, for any help at all.
We learned a few lessons from that one. First and foremost is a door that is not so easy to kick down.
Second and even more important: Don't live in a sh*t pit with the rest of the sh*t birds. I got the heck of of that ghetto ASAP. I now live in a beautiful town on the far end of civilization and the national forrest is my back yard. We live on a dirt road with only a handful of like-minded neighbors who are all switched on when it comes to neighborhood security. If a car comes back there that doesn't belong, everybody knows about it and we all know whose guest it was. We've got thousands of gallons of water above ground and we've got the gennies to run the wells indefinitely. Some neighbors have solar and wind power, so even if things go on long enough that we run out of fuel, we will still have plenty of water for all of us. Problem coyotes get turned inside out on a regular basis and even the women don't flinch at the shot. If its a close enough neighbor, we will yell out, "Did ya' get him?" Its a great place to live, even if it is behind enemy lines here in Commiefornia.
Third lesson: Whatever you have when the SHTF, is likely all you are going to have. They shut down all the stores. Gun stores? That's the first thing they shut down. Charlton Heston wrote and article in the NRA magazine about how several of his liberal friends came asking to borrow a gun during the riots because the gun stores were all closed, and even distant gun stores that were open were observing the required 10 waiting period that these idiots voted into law. They wanted a gun for self defense in these troubled times. He told them to "suck it!" I'm paraphrasing just a little bit… Man I loved that guy… And even if the stores were open, you aren't just going to hop in the car and make a beer run.
Forth lesson: These Damn Dirty Apes (Nothing racial intended here, just using a line from Mr. Heston. "Damn Dirty Apes" shall included all races. Chimps, Gorillas AND Oranguatans...) get tired of "fun time" pretty quick. In most cases we will only have to wait them out for a few days. They are also complete chicken sh*ts. The slightest armed resistance will make them turn tail and run, even when they greatly outnumber the victim. I successfully tested this theory 3 times during those riots. At one point I was outnumbered 18 to 2. Not a fight I wanted to have. Apparently, none of those gang-banging tough guys wanted to taste my 00 buck, and they humbly, quietly left the area without a word. Not I'm not saying every case will go this way every time, BUT its a good general rule. YMMV. And I was not brave, I just had no other choice.
Five: Get some where reasonably safe and stay put. When you are out in the world and moving around is when you were most vulnerable to idiots looking for trouble. They are not going to come into your house looking down the barrel of your gun. This type of animal wants to catch you out in the open away from your den. They want to gang up on you and start a feeding frenzy. Look up the footage of Reggie. Don't give them the satisfaction. Stay in your den. If your den is out in the sticks, like mine, all the better.
Six: As Steyr pointed out, make some friends quick-like. Holding off a mob by yourself is no fun. Get a half a dozen buddies on your flanks, and suddenly the mob has somewhere else to be. This is why I say having an AR and a back up, is NOT enough. If the SHTF while people are at work, it might be smarter for my friends and family to just come straight to me, rather than try to go home and arm up. If that happens, I need to have enough guns to pass around to my allies. Between me and my neighbors, we are all set. We could stop a small army. These cretins and heathens are not the least bit afraid of the po-lease, but in a rare showing of intelligence, they are terrified of armed citizens like us. They know darn well how restrained the police are, and they know darn well that if they come at me or my family they will get ventilated and find themselves with lots of extra new holes. They want to jump up and down and make lots of noise during their temper tantrums, but they don't actually want to fight or die. Again, I'll concede that there may be a small number of exceptions to this.
I guess that would be number seven: Have enough guns and ammo. But everybody here already knows that one. :)
We had plenty of food on hand, but having a few pounds of rice and beans and/or some freeze dried rations is always a smart plan.
That is all that comes to mind right now. I sincerely hope I never have to see days like those again, but I'm prepared for it if it happens.
I live in rural NC. I have the high ground, a deep river to my 6, and 500 meters of open killing field at the 12 'o'clock. Yeah, please riot, pretty please with sugar on top.
so, what I'm hearing is "getting home" is the first response to take in that situation, that is of coarse something like this happens during work hours. Also, no one seems to have black rifles in their vehicle. I saw a couple of post mention keeping a bag of stuff in there car: what consist in your bag?
so, what I'm hearing is "getting home" is the first response to take in that situation, that is of coarse something like this happens during work hours. Also, no one seems to have black rifles in their vehicle. I saw a couple of post mention keeping a bag of stuff in there car: what consist in your bag?
I carry an AR in my trunk whenever I work an over-night shift or travel away from home.
They sent cops out to investigate every rooftop Korean who put on black PJs and a red headband but not a single followup or arrest for the numerous people caught on camera looting or giving a truck driver brain damage.
Priorities.
All the same, a few dozen Korean's managed to save most of their businesses and made the entire city of Los Angeles respect boundaries. And I'm sure they'd rather be investigated than shot, raped and forced to watch everything they worked for burn to the ground.
Hey, let's not get too down on the man. I studied the LA Riots, although not exhaustively, for some lesson plans I was tasked to write. If you are talking about Reginald Denny, they arrested several guys for it, and at least two went to jail. I don't recall any stories of Korean store owners getting arrested. Man, usually you are up on that stuff.
Doing this from memory but I think they arrested one Korean guy who was on film shooting two people, but since one of those people had just shot and perhaps killed his wife I'm pretty sure he was acquitted.
so, what I'm hearing is "getting home" is the first response to take in that situation, that is of coarse something like this happens during work hours. Also, no one seems to have black rifles in their vehicle. I saw a couple of post mention keeping a bag of stuff in there car: what consist in your bag?
During the attempted "Trayvon Riots" aka planned protests in my area, I had my short bag with an MP5 and 10 magazines by the door. My wife was given a new "drive home" route that went several miles outside the protest area. I was watching real time developments of the protests and if they seemed to be getting out of hand me and the bag would be escorting the wife home.
But the whole Trayvon thing mostly fizzled in my area.
Otherwise long guns can be a PITA. I refuse to leave one in the vehicle to be stolen, I've seen that happen too many times to other people. And I carry enough shit in and out of the house on a daily basis without adding a cased rifle.
I have my CCW for EDC, SBRs and SMGs are special occasion items.
Moose-Knuckle
08-17-16, 04:55
Also, no one seems to have black rifles in their vehicle. I saw a couple of post mention keeping a bag of stuff in there car: what consist in your bag?
I tote a side folding Kalashnikov with a bandoleer of Eastern Bloc mags ever since the Occupy cluster, things have only escalated since then. As for a get home bag, what ever you think you might need while on foot hiking home in any weather condition. If you are a white collar type, then boots and socks in your vehicle or stowed at the office is a must. Same with pants and the like if you wear a monkey suit for a living or are a woman in a skirt. I rotate jerky, Cliff bars, bottled water, trail mix, etc. about every six months in our vehicle bags as the heat here kills that stuff.
Preps, guns, ammo, fuel, food, et al. are no brainers.
Mindset . . . mindset . . . mindset . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf6Jg3OtRKo
so, what I'm hearing is "getting home" is the first response to take in that situation, that is of coarse something like this happens during work hours. Also, no one seems to have black rifles in their vehicle. I saw a couple of post mention keeping a bag of stuff in there car: what consist in your bag?
I work in the middle of this area and it is close to the not nice areas. I carry an AR, several mags, additional ammo, food & water, body armor, complete change of clothes to include boots (I wear a suit to work), and a good small compact aid-bag. I have everything set up to be mobile in two bags, one backpack and one gym bag. The gym bag has all of the stuff that I would be putting on, like clothes and such, so that when I get the chance I can ditch it or stuff the empty bag into my backpack. My AR is also in a nondescript bag that I can carry until i need it.
The most important thing is that I have multiple routes mapped with areas to avoid. This is done with and without a vehicle.
Averageman
08-17-16, 06:08
I work in the middle of this area and it is close to the not nice areas. I carry an AR, several mags, additional ammo, food & water, body armor, complete change of clothes to include boots (I wear a suit to work), and a good small compact aid-bag. I have everything set up to be mobile in two bags, one backpack and one gym bag. The gym bag has all of the stuff that I would be putting on, like clothes and such, so that when I get the chance I can ditch it or stuff the empty bag into my backpack. My AR is also in a nondescript bag that I can carry until i need it.
The most important thing is that I have multiple routes mapped with areas to avoid. This is done with and without a vehicle.
I am not worried too much. Yes, I have a bag and two + routes home.
But...
The rioters for the most part would have to be imported and then replaced pretty quickly or someones going to have to go down range with some pasters and cover up the holes in the pop-up targets.
I'm pretty sure between the Local PD and the Sheriffs Department most of this stuff would get put down before it became an issue. Our "Local" television station is thirty miles away, this stuff only works if you get some face time on TV.
I am not worried too much. Yes, I have a bag and two + routes home.
But...
The rioters for the most part would have to be imported and then replaced pretty quickly or someones going to have to go down range with some pasters and cover up the holes in the pop-up targets.
I'm pretty sure between the Local PD and the Sheriffs Department most of this stuff would get put down before it became an issue. Our "Local" television station is thirty miles away, this stuff only works if you get some face time on TV.
I agree with you based on your location, I had the same assessment when I lived down there. Up here is a different story unfortunately.
I live in a mostly white town and work a half mile from home. Having said that, my town borders a more heavily populated less white and more urbanized area. There have already been several BLM protests there. Not to mention Newark is only 30 miles away and we all know what happened there in 1967.
I believe staying put is on only real option. We have enough supplies to last a few days but not longer since space for storing supplies in a condo is limited. The good thing is that I can defend the entrance to my condo fairly easily, the bad thing is that its a condo and attached to other units which could be left undefended and torched. If the building catches fire, I'm ****ed. I have access to the roof without having to go outside so I can provide over watch but the sight lines are very short because it is the suburbs after all. I honestly don't believe a riot will travel the 5 or 6 miles from the nearby population center but I do have their main objectives in my back yard, Best Buy, WalMart and so on. There isn't really anything to loot in the areas where the riots could potentially start so if they want to go shopping, they would have to come here. I hope they don't, but if the do, the wife, cat, dog and I are staying put.
As for help, I wish I had some. The wife knows how to shoot but none of my close friends have firearms or training. I took them shooting once or twice but without direct supervision they would not have a clue. Sigh.
My biggest worry would be my father who works in NYC. If shit goes down there, I don't know if he would be able to get home or if I would be able to get him home.
so, what I'm hearing is "getting home" is the first response to take in that situation, that is of coarse something like this happens during work hours. Also, no one seems to have black rifles in their vehicle. I saw a couple of post mention keeping a bag of stuff in there car: what consist in your bag?
Get-home bag:
- Goretex Boots
- Goretex Jacket
- Goretex Pants
- Thermal Underwear
- Socks
- Watch Cap
- Ball Cap
- Gloves
- Headlamp
- Surefire
- Multi Tool
- Folding Knife
- Fire Making Kit
- IFAK
- Emergency Blanket
- Small Tarp
- 25' 550 Cord
- 48 oz Water
- Life Straw
- 3 days Food (no prep)
- Wet Wipes
- Sunscreen
- Hand Sanitizer
- Insect Repellant
- Compass
- Maps
- Battery Powered Phone Charger
- Spare batteries
- Spare ammo
Total weight 30 lbs.
I park in a secure parking lot and would love to have an AR with me. I mentioned that the IL CCW permit preempts the Chicago/Cook County assault weapon/magazine bans, but that applies only to handguns. They consider a Glock an assault weapon, but I can carry one with no limit on mag capacity. ARs, AKs and the like are still verboten in Chicago. AR/AK pistols are not considered handguns and don't fall under the IL CCW law or its preemption.
This is a kind of anthem for my family:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQNkIrg-Tk
Develop a support network.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10302050_243621435845395_2848048698753133239_n.jpg?oh=3b1d6762cf940963b7b4d8fb0dcc57fc&oe=5859B9AA
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10400773_243621329178739_8369055153821100818_n.jpg?oh=336dd011fa87a13f0311c4cf2f226503&oe=5856A820
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10371527_243372379203634_8062334269758997568_n.jpg?oh=19b8c61e44aae7b4f49f5526d20e0a23&oe=584F8254
Hire roof Koreans!
I don't have to wonder. I've already done this one. My house was about two blocks from where they pulled Reginald Denny out of his truck.
That is all that comes to mind right now. I sincerely hope I never have to see days like those again, but I'm prepared for it if it happens.
Thanks for sharing that.
This thread got me thinking about radios/coms. I don't think the cheap ones you can get in any electronics store for $40 will cut it. I always wanted to get an aviation radio as a back-up for when I fly, might be an even better idea if I can use it for coms in s SHTF scenario.
Averageman
08-17-16, 12:19
The nightmare scenario would be to have all of your ducks in a row at home and then be working in a very gun restrictive state when everything went South.
I don't think that is out of the realm of possibilities for a lot of us here.
Outlander Systems
08-17-16, 12:34
@Alex V:
Get your ham radio license. It's $15 and is good for the rest of your life.
If you have any questions do not hesitate to PM me.
This thread got me thinking about radios/coms. I don't think the cheap ones you can get in any electronics store for $40 will cut it. I always wanted to get an aviation radio as a back-up for when I fly, might be an even better idea if I can use it for coms in s SHTF scenario.
I live in a upper/upper middle class area. I'm more concerned about a soccer mom in her Tesla or Benz 1000 SUV running me over while trying to make sure her kid doesn't actually touch anything in the car thn I am about race riots. My work on the other hand..... completely different story.
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Maybe this needs its own thread (if it does, then let me know and I'll start it) but for those of you who are carrying long guns on an EDC or situational basis, how does it fit into your "get home" plan exactly? Aside from the high threat of getting it stolen out of my truck, I just don't know how I would carry it without becoming a target for first responders.
Let's be honest, there's no "low profile" when a long gun is involved (not talking PDWs or subguns here). It's either concealed entirely or its overt. If it is concealed, then there's not really a whole lot of options out there that allows you to carry concealed but deploy it quickly. And most of the ones I've seen that do allow for quick deployment, wouldn't exactly be my first choice of load carriage for "get home gear" in terms of comfort or capacity over an extended trek home.
So this leads me to the crux of my question:
If you're in a riot situation and are mobile with a vehicle, then it doesn't really matter what you have or how you carry it. However, as soon as you're gridlocked and have to go to plan B (humping it out of there on foot), that all changes. So, how are you carrying your long gun without being a threat to LE/NG/ect.? Are you carrying it concealed? If so, how will you deploy it? Will you be able to deploy it fast enough to actually make use of it? If not, then why have it with you?
Outlander Systems
08-17-16, 13:10
@Ironman8
I recently picked up a KRISS Vector as a travel/PDW/Truck-buddy. If a folding variant is acquired, it packs up extremely well. Even with the fixed M4 Receiver extension it clocks in around 24".
Unless things ever went full-bore Mad Max, it's more than enough firepower for a bad situation such as getting caught up amidst looters/rioters/domestic-uncivilized-unrest CONUS.
With a folding version it will pack up into a small bag, an example given by another member here is a laptop bag.
Dude in a suit, carrying a laptop bag? Not gonna bring much attention. Dude in a suit with Mk18 at the low-ready? Might raise some eyebrows...
I've often thought about a carbine in a nice bag with plenty of mags and supplies (enough to get you home safely from a decent radius) but vehicle break ins are just awful around here. Also, everyone is into guns so if someone walked by and saw a deployment type bag in the back they know there will be goodies in it and it will likely be grabbed.
Surprised to see how many people pack things like that in their ride.
Outlander,
That's kind of my point. How fast can you deploy that from a briefcase? Can you deploy it faster or as fast as your EDC handgun? If you can't, and it stays in the briefcase, then now all you have is a 5 pound weight that you have to lug around along with any other get home gear.
Also, I agree about your Mad Max comment. However, because of the impracticality of carrying around a long gun in a period of unrest (not Mad Max), then I personally take it to the next step and say that your EDC handgun should be sufficient firepower as well. Would I rather have a long gun? Hell yes. But as stated, I just don't see it as being practical until that tipping point is reached.
WickedWillis
08-17-16, 13:33
I've often thought about a carbine in a nice bag with plenty of mags and supplies (enough to get you home safely from a decent radius) but vehicle break ins are just awful around here. Also, everyone is into guns so if someone walked by and saw a deployment type bag in the back they know there will be goodies in it and it will likely be grabbed.
Surprised to see how many people pack things like that in their ride.
Big reason I carry my Tavor in a tennis racket bag.
An AK folder will fit in most bags. Book bag, tennis bag, a larger laptop bag....etc. Not saying it's ready to go instantly but it doesn't take long to pull a zipper.
I don't carry a rifle around with me but that's how I'd do it if I did. It's not uncommon to see people with backpacks/school bags
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Outlander Systems
08-17-16, 13:45
@Ironman
Like anything, it would be situationally dependent...
If things have gotten bad enough to ditch my truck and go on foot, I'd be wanting something more than my EDC.
Compact SMG/PDW type weapons, can still be CCW'd. When Ranier gets the folding adapter back in, I'll let you know if I can stash a KRISS under a sweatshirt.
:p
In states that allow open carry you might be just another guy protesting for your 2A rights lol. Of coarse, in the middle of a riot that could be different. NJ law, as shitty as it is, actually allows me to drive around with a long gun in the trunk as long as its not loaded. Handgun... go strait to jail, to not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Then again, I can't have an SBR or anything folding so I would have to carry a full size carbine.
NJ law, as shitty as it is, actually allows me to drive around with a long gun in the trunk as long as its not loaded. .
Can the mag be loaded and where would you have to store it?
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sevenhelmet
08-17-16, 15:12
Can the mag be loaded and where would you have to store it?
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There's the rub!
BTW, this thread is great, but the title is tripping my OCD, and I'm worried about being called a troll when I mean no harm to anyone here. Not sure what my COURSE of action should be... ;)
I'm not busting on the guy, I'm genuinely curious. I live on the border with NJ and go to that state once a month at least. I know they have strict laws and I always double check if I don't accidentally have a loaded mag, empty mag or even a box of ammo before I go. I'm even afraid to leave my holster on
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Can the mag be loaded and where would you have to store it?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
The law doesn't specify if the mag has to be unloaded. It just says the firearm must be unloaded. It would still have to be stored in the trunk.
There's the rub!
BTW, this thread is great, but the title is tripping my OCD, and I'm worried about being called a troll when I mean no harm to anyone here. Not sure what my COURSE of action should be... ;)
Its a legit question. NJ is the kind of state where I can own JHP ammo, but can only transport it to and from the range. Even out of state LEO are not allowed to carry JHP or have a mag larger that 15 rounds.
Out of staters can't have a long gun in the trunk unless you have a non resident Firearm Purchase ID card. Having the card is what allows the person to have a long gun in the car. Handguns are only to and from the range. TO the letter of the law I can walk down the street with an AR slung across my back as long as it is ban compliant and not loaded. Now, people in TX get hassled for this, can you imagine in NJ?
No, if the SHTF it would be a **** the law this is my life we are talking about before I bust out a carbine on the street.
coarse
adjective \ˈkȯrs\
: made up of large pieces : not fine
: having a rough quality
: rude or offensive
Course
3
a : accustomed procedure or normal action <the law taking its course>
b : a chosen manner of conducting oneself : way of acting <our wisest course is to retreat>
c (1) : progression through a development or period or a series of acts or events
This grammar Nazi now returns you to your regularly scheduled thread already in progress...
Whiskey_Bravo
08-17-16, 16:48
coarse
adjective \ˈkȯrs\
: made up of large pieces : not fine
: having a rough quality
: rude or offensive
Course
3
a : accustomed procedure or normal action <the law taking its course>
b : a chosen manner of conducting oneself : way of acting <our wisest course is to retreat>
c (1) : progression through a development or period or a series of acts or events
This grammar Nazi now returns you to your regularly scheduled thread already in progress...
Actually surprised it took 6 pages of post before the grammar nazi showed up.
@Ironman
Like anything, it would be situationally dependent...
If things have gotten bad enough to ditch my truck and go on foot, I'd be wanting something more than my EDC.
Compact SMG/PDW type weapons, can still be CCW'd. When Ranier gets the folding adapter back in, I'll let you know if I can stash a KRISS under a sweatshirt.
:p
Ha! Sweatshirt in ATL, huh? Remind me not to ever finger-fvk your weapons after a hot day of concealment duty :p
So what's your line of thinking as far as "use"? Do you only take it out of concealment when time permits and threat level is high enough that you wouldn't want to be without it? Still trying to find the logical application here and maybe convince myself to look for an alternative means to have a long gun at the ready.
sevenhelmet
08-17-16, 19:11
Actually surprised it took 6 pages of post before the grammar nazi showed up.
Technically it's a spelling correction, but either way, happy to oblige. Just please don't call me a nazi.
SilverBullet432
08-17-16, 19:48
so, what I'm hearing is "getting home" is the first response to take in that situation, that is of coarse something like this happens during work hours. Also, no one seems to have black rifles in their vehicle. I saw a couple of post mention keeping a bag of stuff in there car: what consist in your bag?
Can't carry in company truck and on leased property :/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ5ZeuXwpYY
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Stumbled across this looking for PDW stocks and this seems a tad extreme for your average civ but if I could think of any application for this a bug out or get home situation on foot would be it..
I have an 8" 300blk pistol waiting on a stamp but I'm going to put a PDW stock on it specifically for the smallest package possible to take everywhere with me as I have a backpack everywhere I go.
Can't carry in company truck and on leased property :/
I know many people out here who choose their safety over possibly losing their job over company policies like this.
Moose-Knuckle
08-18-16, 02:15
If you're in a riot situation and are mobile with a vehicle, then it doesn't really matter what you have or how you carry it. However, as soon as you're gridlocked and have to go to plan B (humping it out of there on foot), that all changes. So, how are you carrying your long gun without being a threat to LE/NG/ect.? Are you carrying it concealed? If so, how will you deploy it? Will you be able to deploy it fast enough to actually make use of it? If not, then why have it with you?
Better to have and not need than to need and not have . . .
A maxim I live by, a folding stock Kalashnikov (7.62x39) fits famously in a Wilson tennis racket case and turns 90% of automobile bodies into concealment. Also slung on body under jacket during cooler months.
Lot of options out there.
Moose-Knuckle
08-18-16, 02:33
I've often thought about a carbine in a nice bag with plenty of mags and supplies (enough to get you home safely from a decent radius) but vehicle break ins are just awful around here. Also, everyone is into guns so if someone walked by and saw a deployment type bag in the back they know there will be goodies in it and it will likely be grabbed.
Surprised to see how many people pack things like that in their ride.
We have members here who carry ARs and mags in everything from folding chair bags to volleyball set zipper bags, softball/baseball bat bags, etc.
SilverBullet432
08-18-16, 06:26
I know many people out here who choose their safety over possibly losing their job over company policies like this.
I bet, especially in South Texas on the border where you have drilling rigs basically right on the edge. And people driving around at night hard to know whos who and if you get assaulted by someone or a group...
Mr. Goodtimes
08-18-16, 08:28
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160818/c1495a171901fcefe46500d0d9cabfed.jpg
This would fit the bill nicely.
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So this leads me to the crux of my question:
If you're in a riot situation and are mobile with a vehicle, then it doesn't really matter what you have or how you carry it. However, as soon as you're gridlocked and have to go to plan B (humping it out of there on foot), that all changes. So, how are you carrying your long gun without being a threat to LE/NG/ect.? Are you carrying it concealed? If so, how will you deploy it? Will you be able to deploy it fast enough to actually make use of it? If not, then why have it with you?
This is one of those questions that has too many variables to answer, but for the sake of conversation…
During the LA Riots, there was a point where any moving vehicle on the 101, 110 or 405 was a fun-to-shoot-at moving target. Side streets were literally ambushes waiting to happen. Driving anywhere at any time of day or night was not advisable. Now imagine the tactics in use lately where the miscreants are blocking roads. What would you do if you rolled up on that unexpectedly, and then couldn't back track because of the gridlock that just formed up behind you? Still worried about concealeability, or are you more worried about round count the ability to deliver those rounds effectively? If things get that bad, I don't think any officer is going to care about a single dude, moving out on foot with a slung rifle. I think they will understand what is going on and wish you good luck in your travels. Granted, this sort of depends on what stage of riots we are in. At the very beginning one of us moving cross country on foot with a slung rifle might raise an eyebrow. Two or three days into the suck on a large scale like the LA riots and there are no first responders anymore to raise an eyebrow. I think I could have driven a tank down the streets of L.A. and any officers present would have probably cheered. When things devolve into mass hysteria, the officers on the ground go back to caring about survival, right vs. wrong, and seeing an end to the craziness afoot. Orders from the brass and the day's politics go right out the window, even in the worse gun control areas. Think about it: If you were an officer on duty after a couple of days of mass debauchery, and you see a lone white man moving through the periphery in one direction with purpose while carrying a long gun of any sort, are you going to care? Now if you see 30 black guys carrying arms, sauntering down the middle of the street seemingly aimlessly, obviously looking for trouble, well that would be a different story, wouldn't it?
Many people think they are going to run home from work, but if things go south quick enough, in some areas, that might be tough. If I have to hunker down in areas with hundreds or thousands of people who want to harm me because of the color of my skin, then I want as much rifle and ammo as I can carry, and for that matter, I want a second rifle for any allies I might come across that also want to survive. Moving through town was not an option, armed or not. Going around the suck became impossible, as it spread so far, so fast, there was no way to know where you could get around it.
The riots we've seen lately have been relatively tame and contained to relatively small areas. When it breaks out in larger areas with more angry mobs, like it did here in Los Angles any sort of LE support goes out the window. Along with the LE support goes LE opposition or enforcement of stupid, ill-conceived, illegal gun laws. When the L.A. riots were in full swing I did what I wanted when I wanted. LAPD didn't care about my guns, they cared about me and them surviving these crazy times. Mastering the art of knowing when society has reached that point, and when society has returned from that point is the key here. Whip out your AR a few hours too soon, and your above quoted concern is a valid one. Once things get to a certain point, nobody cares about your long gun except the baddies that are after your exposed white ass.
I'd like to hear from any LEO reading this. Have any of you guys personally gone through mass rioting and civil unrest like what we had here in CA all those years ago? I don't mean a little riot where it could be surrounded and contained, I mean large scale and uncontainable. If you saw a reasonably well dressed non-gangbanger type guy moving quickly and efficiently through town with an exposed long gun during the middle of some craziness, how concerned would you be? What would you do, if anything? The dozens of LAPD, Torrance PD and Sheriffs that saw me in public with guns in hand simply gave me a courtesy nod and some smiled. If they were close enough, I told them, "Make it home safe officer.", and they told me to do the same, or something similar. The officers I encountered on a daily basis could easily tell the difference between a threat and an ally, and make no mistake, we were all allies during those times. They knew it and I knew it. An armed public was the only thing keeping things from completely going down the tubes. Police knew it, civies knew it and the baddies knew it. If the rioters had tried to jump a police car in my neighborhood, it would have been the last act of "civil disobedience" they ever committed. Those officers knew they were helpless sitting ducks in their uniforms and cars, and they knew we had their backs. I can't imagine it would be any different if it happened again. Good guys band together against a common enemy. It didn't matter whether or not one of us had on a uniform.
I make no claim of being able to predict every situation in every area, but I know what I saw and lived through, and I've seen what human nature does first hand. I saw society break down and I lived through all that followed. Bottom line for me, as it relates to this thread and the above quote: If you are a good guy and things are bad enough that its time to pull out the AR or AK, any remaining LE isn't going to care if they are even there to see it.
^^^ Well said Bulletdog... It seems to me staying plugged in, locally and nationally will help... Civil unrest is a broad brush to describe riots and such imo.
I live in the sticks, and when the LA riots happened I was not surprised, but of course thought " that couldn't threaten me or mine..."
I don't think that anymore, and am preparing for whatever.
coarse
adjective \ˈkȯrs\
: made up of large pieces : not fine
: having a rough quality
: rude or offensive
Course
3
a : accustomed procedure or normal action <the law taking its course>
b : a chosen manner of conducting oneself : way of acting <our wisest course is to retreat>
c (1) : progression through a development or period or a series of acts or events
This grammar Nazi now returns you to your regularly scheduled thread already in progress...
It is fixed.
Any current training is not enough. What people fail to realize is that the police only have an illusion of control. They can bring in other agencies, the state, NG, and a Girl Scout Troop. Still outnumbered. The Mayor and other VIPs will not be bugging in. They will be on a state helo outta there if no roads accessible.
They know that dropping a jivebird got them into the riot and won't shoot. Cordon an area, maybe some CS, hold a line and just watch.
They offer up the officer who was in the shooting as sacrifice.
Assume your home will be looted and destroyed. Have sensible bugout bags ready. Have a "Site B" out of town. Ensure it is accessible. And....don't try to help. Not your fight. When it's over, they'll come looking for you.
And if it gets too desperate, well.....take your chances with a jury. IF court is still a luxury.
The professional agitators know their BS is working and turn it on everyday now.
^^^ Well said Bulletdog... It seems to me staying plugged in, locally and nationally will help... Civil unrest is a broad brush to describe riots and such imo.
I live in the sticks, and when the LA riots happened I was not surprised, but of course thought " that couldn't threaten me or mine..."
I don't think that anymore, and am preparing for whatever.
I wasn't surprised either. What surprised me was how wide spread it was through most of the major cities in the entire country. The other thing that surprised me was how the news media "sanitized" the whole thing. What they showed on the news was pretty bad, but they didn't show most of the really bad stuff. There were a lot of dead bodies piling up around L.A. but all they seemed to show was hispanics carrying free TVs and shoes out of stores. Its like they didn't want people to know what was really going on. I did not see it first hand, but those roof top Korean guys were fairly close to my location and I was told they shot a lot of bad guys with molotov cocktails in hand. I toured the area after the fact and there were a lot of burn marks, bloodstains and bullet pockmarks all around that building. The news showed lots of footage of those guys up on their roof, but they didn't show what was going on down at street level. Bad guys would light their firebomb and then come running toward the building. Then the rooftop guys would shoot them dead before they could get close enough. Bad guy would drop his cocktail and fall in the burning puddle, so I'm told.
It seems like the reaction the media got after showing the Reginald Denny footage made them realize they were about to have a well armed and well schooled vigilante army on their hands. At first we all thought the blacks were having a temper tantrum over the court verdict and venting off some steam. No problem. We'll just stay home from work and school for a couple of days and let them do their 'thang. Let the police defend their own burning police cars, right? When we saw the Denny footage, we all realized they were killing innocent white people for being white. Game changer right there. It went from some idiots throwing some bottles, vandalizing cop cars and being a nuisance to racially motivated group murder in the streets. I know Denny survived, but we all thought he would die the way his head was caved in, and they intended to murder him, all the while laughing and having a good time. I think if they had showed just one more incident like that the TV, hunting season would have started early that year. As it was, we decided to stay home and let them come to us, but if we had perceived it getting any worse we'd have taken the fight to their neighborhoods instead of waiting for it to come to ours. When they did come to our neighborhood, they quietly left when they saw what they were up against.
^^^^^^^
This. This is why the media is so anti-gun and ultra liberal. They know that if they don't gloss over it, it can go a different way. They fear waking a sleeping giant.
Look at Germany and Europe. They have a bunch of young men, most of whom were conscripted at 18. Know how to use a rifle, and so forth. They really, really don't want a bunch of 18-40 year olds marching and singing Teufelieden.
Same with America. Even people who "don't have a gun" most likely have a gun. I've known too many people over the years buying up what they could get. And 'gun people' they are not.
They don't want an American My Lai but with the constant, no let up BS it looks more and more like an eventuality.
We Americans are far more civilized than given credit for but only to a point. Then we become real cruel MFers.
Averageman
08-18-16, 12:31
It seems like the reaction the media got after showing the Reginald Denny footage made them realize they were about to have a well armed and well schooled vigilante army on their hands. At first we all thought the blacks were having a temper tantrum over the court verdict and venting off some steam. No problem. We'll just stay home from work and school for a couple of days and let them do their 'thang. Let the police defend their own burning police cars, right? When we saw the Denny footage, we all realized they were killing innocent white people for being white. Game changer right there. It went from some idiots throwing some bottles, vandalizing cop cars and being a nuisance to racially motivated group murder in the streets. I know Denny survived, but we all thought he would die the way his head was caved in, and they intended to murder him, all the while laughing and having a good time. I think if they had showed just one more incident like that the TV, hunting season would have started early that year. As it was, we decided to stay home and let them come to us, but if we had perceived it getting any worse we'd have taken the fight to their neighborhoods instead of waiting for it to come to ours. When they did come to our neighborhood, they quietly left when they saw what they were up against.
The LA News Media is likely the worst in our Nation for pandering to these groups. If they hadn't fed the Cop hate that riot likely would not have got off of the ground, but they had to escalate the situation by pandering.
OJ would have burned if it were for the LA Riots. They were so afraid it would happen again that they let him walk.
Outlander Systems
08-18-16, 13:18
@Ironman:
LOL. I had a holster that got moldy from being constantly wet...
I bought the KRISS with the sole intention of having the ability to go with something in the PDW category. Like you brought up earlier, busting out a full-length shotgun or AR...there's no sticking them anywhere should you need to ditch your ride. Even an SBR is still long enough that stuffing it somewhere isn't necessarily practical. With some of the smaller weapons, in pistol-format, such as the KRISS Vector, CZ Scorpion, Sig MPX, HK MP5, etc, one could easily be thrown in a small bag, or backpack, and remain legally concealable should one need to extricate himself from a bad situation on foot.
Given the current political climate, the propensity for urban violence, and a general increase in violent crime, the social situation has deteriorated to the point where I personally decided to keep some more firepower in my vehicle than simply an EDC handgun.
PDWs, and the deployment and carrying thereof, fall into the "Covert Carry" vs "Concealed Carry."
Could one realistically stuff a KRISS Vector or CZ Scorpion under a sweatshirt? Sure. The reality is that, I sure as hell wouldn't leave an expensive laptop in my vehicle if it broke down. A compact PDW could fit in a laptop bag. Barring a catastrophic event, or getting swept up into a full-blown riot, another consideration is vehicle breakdown. If my truck breaks down on the side of the interstate, do I really want to leave a firearm behind in it? Do I really want to walk to the nearest service station with a $1,500 Benelli thrown on my back?
Negative, but it's not unreasonable to have a PDW in a bag, that can come along for the walk.
It's personally dependent as well. Do you drive an old beater truck? Throw a PDW in a Dewalt tool bag. Drive a BMW? Throw it in a tennis racquet bag or a laptop bag.
If you're attempting to exfil from urban unrest gone south, leave the bag half-zipped, and keep it where you can still quickly deploy the weapon if need be.
I'm not saying a PDW for your vehicle is *the* way. Just *a* way.
Ha! Sweatshirt in ATL, huh? Remind me not to ever finger-fvk your weapons after a hot day of concealment duty :p
So what's your line of thinking as far as "use"? Do you only take it out of concealment when time permits and threat level is high enough that you wouldn't want to be without it? Still trying to find the logical application here and maybe convince myself to look for an alternative means to have a long gun at the ready.
I wasn't surprised either. What surprised me was how wide spread it was through most of the major cities in the entire country. The other thing that surprised me was how the news media "sanitized" the whole thing. What they showed on the news was pretty bad, but they didn't show most of the really bad stuff. There were a lot of dead bodies piling up around L.A. but all they seemed to show was hispanics carrying free TVs and shoes out of stores. Its like they didn't want people to know what was really going on. I did not see it first hand, but those roof top Korean guys were fairly close to my location and I was told they shot a lot of bad guys with molotov cocktails in hand. I toured the area after the fact and there were a lot of burn marks, bloodstains and bullet pockmarks all around that building. The news showed lots of footage of those guys up on their roof, but they didn't show what was going on down at street level. Bad guys would light their firebomb and then come running toward the building. Then the rooftop guys would shoot them dead before they could get close enough. Bad guy would drop his cocktail and fall in the burning puddle, so I'm told.
It seems like the reaction the media got after showing the Reginald Denny footage made them realize they were about to have a well armed and well schooled vigilante army on their hands. At first we all thought the blacks were having a temper tantrum over the court verdict and venting off some steam. No problem. We'll just stay home from work and school for a couple of days and let them do their 'thang. Let the police defend their own burning police cars, right? When we saw the Denny footage, we all realized they were killing innocent white people for being white. Game changer right there. It went from some idiots throwing some bottles, vandalizing cop cars and being a nuisance to racially motivated group murder in the streets. I know Denny survived, but we all thought he would die the way his head was caved in, and they intended to murder him, all the while laughing and having a good time. I think if they had showed just one more incident like that the TV, hunting season would have started early that year. As it was, we decided to stay home and let them come to us, but if we had perceived it getting any worse we'd have taken the fight to their neighborhoods instead of waiting for it to come to ours. When they did come to our neighborhood, they quietly left when they saw what they were up against.
Truth. It was sobering when I realized this wasn't just a "big city problem".
I have always carried water, food, clothes... I now keep a pistol with reloads, and I'm really starting to feel like a rifle would be nice to have in the truck-
The_War_Wagon
08-18-16, 14:52
Sounds like a situation to "bug in", which is what I would do. Avoid leaving the home, someone awake, armed, and alert 24/7.
People who want to bug out when bullets are flying, are called, "targets of opportunity." :fie:
SomeOtherGuy
08-18-16, 15:09
I wasn't surprised either. What surprised me was how wide spread it was through most of the major cities in the entire country. The other thing that surprised me was how the news media "sanitized" the whole thing. What they showed on the news was pretty bad, but they didn't show most of the really bad stuff. There were a lot of dead bodies piling up around L.A.
Very interesting - I had no idea. I was a teenager in a nice suburb of a smallish city at the time, and I honestly thought it was only in LA. I would be interested to hear more about what really happened that time. It might be best in a separate thread, but it would be interesting if anyone cares to write more on this.
They sent cops out to investigate every rooftop Korean who put on black PJs and a red headband but not a single followup or arrest for the numerous people caught on camera looting or giving a truck driver brain damage.
Priorities.The Koreans protecting themselves could possible reduce the union police job security. The beatings just add to the job security of the union police. The government gangstas vs the non government gangstas.
An example how the terrorists lives matter can turn a busy freeway into a parking lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNWFlMZfCxY
Fortunately, the Atlanta PD and Georgia State Patrol learned a few tricks and kept this from happening a couple months ago in Atlanta. I got to give kudos to the democrat Atlanta mayor for taking a tough stance on not letting these terrorists take out the downtown connector.
An example how the terrorists lives matter can turn a busy freeway into a parking lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNWFlMZfCxY
Fortunately, the Atlanta PD and Georgia State Patrol learned a few tricks and kept this from happening a couple months ago in Atlanta. I got to give kudos to the democrat Atlanta mayor for taking a tough stance on not letting these terrorists take out the downtown connector.
Man, I'd be so tempted to not stop that I'm sure I'd be delayed long enough to where the decision was made for me. I wonder what kind of trouble I'd be in since as far as I know you are not allowed to walk on an interstate for very good reasons.
Averageman
08-18-16, 15:35
I'm sorry, I would be getting ahead of letting myself be taken hostage and maybe bump some sense in to someone trying to Hijack me.
I live in one of the whitest states in the Country, and everyone is packing. I think I will be okay.Are you suggesting an armed society is a polite society??
Good discussion overall and especially on my long gun question, guys. Thanks for hashing it out and making me think a little more about my setup.
An example how the terrorists lives matter can turn a busy freeway into a parking lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNWFlMZfCxY
Fortunately, the Atlanta PD and Georgia State Patrol learned a few tricks and kept this from happening a couple months ago in Atlanta. I got to give kudos to the democrat Atlanta mayor for taking a tough stance on not letting these terrorists take out the downtown connector.
The Oakland (CA) PD didn't get that memo and you see what happened.
The law doesn't specify if the mag has to be unloaded. It just says the firearm must be unloaded. It would still have to be stored in the trunk.
Washington is the same way. Rifle can't have ammo attached in any method. This isn't a RCW, but a fish and game thing to prevent people from taking shots out of their cars AFAIK. I just keep a quick bag full of mags if I need to grab my carbine.
An example how the terrorists lives matter can turn a busy freeway into a parking lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNWFlMZfCxY
Fortunately, the Atlanta PD and Georgia State Patrol learned a few tricks and kept this from happening a couple months ago in Atlanta. I got to give kudos to the democrat Atlanta mayor for taking a tough stance on not letting these terrorists take out the downtown connector.
I am NOT a fan of Kasim Reed nor do I even really like Nathan Deal (nor Sonny Purdue and ugh Roy Barnes), but at the end of the day some shit won't fly in Georgia. A lot goes wrong at the state and local level but one thing they get right is a strong show of force. I worked a Protest or two in my day and as just a youth with a slung double mag clamp MP5 and a Gas Mask looking like something out of the Dawn of the Dead project raid just standing a line did quite a bit to dissuade any hostlity beyond "fvck you cracker muffukas" and "fvck the police"
Anything is possible but overall, Georgia does better than these Left Coast and Midwest states yet...we haven't had too bad of an upset yet. The snowpacalypse did more to shut it down than BLM
Outlander Systems
08-18-16, 17:25
For those of you who can't carry rifles in the vehicle, what is the policy for pistols?
For those of you who can't carry rifles in the vehicle, what is the policy for pistols?
While I am no one's attorney(or an attorney at all), nor their mother, wife, or person who signs their checks...
Sometimes I would sooner beg forgiveness than ask permission, and take my chances looking for ditches to dig and fries to fry than be a good little boy who died following the rules that benefitted no one but some fatass in an office.
But would also be campaigning for it to be authorized.
Like slugs. You trust me to lob 9 .32 caliber pellets downrange but not one, single slug?
wilson1911
08-18-16, 18:40
For those of you who can't carry rifles in the vehicle, what is the policy for pistols?
If this is in reference to the poster that stated he could not carry in a company vehicle or a location. I am assuming it is in the oilfield. If he is like me, I drive a company truck with explosives to and from, and on location. This is forbidden. Most well sites forbid them also for anyone entering the site. Any vehicle can be searched at any time.
If this is in reference to the poster that stated he could not carry in a company vehicle or a location. I am assuming it is in the oilfield. If he is like me, I drive a company truck with explosives to and from, and on location. This is forbidden. Most well sites forbid them also for anyone entering the site. Any vehicle can be searched at any time.
Correct. Nearly every lease has a "no firearms" policy just like any large employers will have a no firearm in company owned vehicle policy.
Outlander Systems
08-18-16, 18:57
Negative. I was referring to states that do not allow for loaded rifles in vehicles.
Are you suggesting an armed society is a polite society??
I don't believe in that. People either have good intentions or bad one, guns don't matter. If they did criminals of all shapes and sizes would be the most polite people on the face of this planet
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For those of you who can't carry rifles in the vehicle, what is the policy for pistols?
In PA it comes down to permit. If you have a conceal carry permit you're fine. On you or in your car. You can carry without a permit but once you're in the car it's considered concealed and you'd better have a permit. Or simply keep the gun and ammo separate
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I don't believe in that. People either have good intentions or bad one, guns don't matter. If they did criminals of all shapes and sizes would be the most polite people on the face of this planet
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The people they go after aren't armed.
There was a time in this country where people knew if they crossed the line that they had signed their own death warrants.
Rob enough banks and guys with beltfeds would ambush you on country roads
Outlander Systems
08-18-16, 19:46
Roger that.
Living in the "Guns Everywhere State" I forget that not every place has the kickass gun laws we do.
In PA it comes down to permit. If you have a conceal carry permit you're fine. On you or in your car. You can carry without a permit but once you're in the car it's considered concealed and you'd better have a permit. Or simply keep the gun and ammo separate
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Roger that.
Living in the "Guns Everywhere State" I forget that not every place has the kickass gun laws we do.
Aye. Sometimes, I get kinda bemused with some bassackwards stuff but then I remember that yeah we have guns everywhere. Like nobody cares even. If we had constitutional carry, we'd have it licked.
Rarely do I go to Alabama, but at one point (don't know if they changed it), you could have a gun in plain view, but if you didn't have a permit, you got charged with carrying a concealed weapon. Which I'm just sure had nothing to do with Jim Crow(sarcasm as it most certainly did).
And you know as rough as it can get at times here.....It doesn't seem so bad. Like yeah there are no end of hoods with guns but then again there are normal guys with guns. I recounted it once but investigating a prowler call the home owner (an older black guy) actually stood by with a lever action when I came up on some teenager trying to cut through yards and sprained his ankle. No backup came but wasn't needed. Anyways in hindsight just knowing even with all the dreaded "racial tension" BS, the notion that a black dude would cover me with a 30-30 felt good.
Sadly, I feel that wouldn't happen everywhere.
I am NOT a fan of Kasim Reed nor do I even really like Nathan Deal (nor Sonny Purdue and ugh Roy Barnes), but at the end of the day some shit won't fly in Georgia.
I am not a fan of the Atlanta mayor and I am very disappointed in the governor's actions in the past couple of years. But I had to say that they handled correctly the latest attempts by the Soros's terrorists to cause anarchy.
I am not a fan of the Atlanta mayor and I am very disappointed in the governor's actions in the past couple of years. But I had to say that they handled correctly the latest attempts by the Soros's terrorists to cause anarchy.
I was agreeing with you. That mess was turned off before it got turned on most ricky tick.
The last governor I liked ,though I was a kid at the time, was Zell Miller. He was a Democrat but more in the vein of an 1800s style. He challenged Bill O'Reilly to a duel once.
I still have an old Learners Permit with his signature somewhere.
I was agreeing with you. That mess was turned off before it got turned on most ricky tick.
The last governor I liked ,though I was a kid at the time, was Zell Miller. He was a Democrat but more in the vein of an 1800s style. He challenged Bill O'Reilly to a duel once.
.
We're on the same page Firefly.
But Miller challenged Chris Matthews to the duel, not O'Reilly. That was hilarious.
SilverBullet432
08-18-16, 21:12
If this is in reference to the poster that stated he could not carry in a company vehicle or a location. I am assuming it is in the oilfield. If he is like me, I drive a company truck with explosives to and from, and on location. This is forbidden. Most well sites forbid them also for anyone entering the site. Any vehicle can be searched at any time.
Correct. Nearly every lease has a "no firearms" policy just like any large employers will have a no firearm in company owned vehicle policy.
Correct. Most rules are set by the ranchers or landowners in my case, it's company policy :/ sucks and we all hate it, but Houston has other views...
We're on the same page Firefly.
But Miller challenged Chris Matthews to the duel, not O'Reilly. That was hilarious.
I stand corrected, sir. But TV loudmouths all kinda look the same to me anyway :)
Moose-Knuckle
08-19-16, 04:49
If things get that bad, I don't think any officer is going to care about a single dude, moving out on foot with a slung rifle. I think they will understand what is going on and wish you good luck in your travels. Granted, this sort of depends on what stage of riots we are in. At the very beginning one of us moving cross country on foot with a slung rifle might raise an eyebrow. Two or three days into the suck on a large scale like the LA riots and there are no first responders anymore to raise an eyebrow. I think I could have driven a tank down the streets of L.A. and any officers present would have probably cheered. When things devolve into mass hysteria, the officers on the ground go back to caring about survival, right vs. wrong, and seeing an end to the craziness afoot. Orders from the brass and the day's politics go right out the window, even in the worse gun control areas. Think about it: If you were an officer on duty after a couple of days of mass debauchery, and you see a lone white man moving through the periphery in one direction with purpose while carrying a long gun of any sort, are you going to care?
I'm glad to here that was the climate in LA back in the early 90's.
In '05 there was a massive local/state/federal/MIL gun confiscation post Katrina, watch and learn gentlemen . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKkUG1F2JiI
Moose-Knuckle
08-19-16, 05:14
The other thing that surprised me was how the news media "sanitized" the whole thing. What they showed on the news was pretty bad, but they didn't show most of the really bad stuff. There were a lot of dead bodies piling up around L.A. but all they seemed to show was hispanics carrying free TVs and shoes out of stores. Its like they didn't want people to know what was really going on.
Of course the mainstream media didn't want people to know the truth, they are not about that. They have an agenda. Here is a short write up I did sometime ago about the Rodney King incident, the media wanted everyone in America to think those cops beat up poor Rodney King with their night sticks because of the color of his skin.
02 March 1991
Rodney King and two passengers, Bryant Allen and Freddie Helms (both of whom are black as well), were driving west on Foothill Freeway (Interstate 210) in the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles after they had spent the evening watching a basketball game and drinking at a friend’s house .
At 00:30 hrs, Troopers Tim and Melanie Singer, a husband-and-wife team of the California Highway Patrol, spotted King’s car speeding. The Singers pursued King, and the subsequent freeway chase reached a speed of at least 117 miles per hour. According to King’s own statements, he refused to pull the car over because a DUI would violate his parole for a previous robbery conviction. King exited the freeway, and the chase continued through residential streets at speeds allegedly ranging from 55 to 80 mph. By this point, several police cars and a helicopter had joined in the pursuit. After approximately eight miles, officers cornered King’s car. The first five LAPD officers to arrive at the scene were Stacey Koon, Laurence Powell, Timothy Wind, Theodore Briseno, and Rolando Solano.
Trooper Tim Singer ordered King and his two passengers to exit the vehicle and lie face down on the ground. The two passengers complied and were taken into custody without incident. King initially remained in the car. When he finally did emerge, he acted bizarrely: giggling; patting the ground; and waving to the police helicopter overhead. King then grabbed his buttocks. Trooper Melanie Singer momentarily thought he was reaching for a gun. She drew her gun and pointed it at King, ordering him to lie on the ground. King complied. Singer approached King with her gun drawn, preparing to make the arrest.
At this point, Sergeant Stacey Koon intervened and ordered Trooper Melanie Singer to holster her weapon. Koon then ordered the four other LAPD officers at the scene—Briseno, Powell, Solano, and Wind—to subdue and handcuff King in a manner called a "swarm," a technique that involves multiple officers grabbing a suspect with empty hands. As the officers attempted to do so, King physically resisted. King rose up, tossing Officers Powell and Briseno off his back. King then struck Officer Briseno in the chest.
NONE of this was aired by the media. The only portion of George Holliday's camcorder video was of multiple white Police Officers beating a black male on the ground.
29 April 1992,
When a jury acquitted four Los Angeles Police Department officers accused in the videotaped beating of black motorist Rodney King following a high-speed pursuit. Thousands of people in the Los Angeles area rioted over the six days following the verdict. At that time, similar, smaller riots and anti-police actions took place in other locations in the United States and Canada. Widespread looting, assault, arson and murder occurred, and property damages topped roughly $1 billion. In all, 53 people died during the riots and thousands more were injured.
It seems like the reaction the media got after showing the Reginald Denny footage made them realize they were about to have a well armed and well schooled vigilante army on their hands. At first we all thought the blacks were having a temper tantrum over the court verdict and venting off some steam.
When we saw the Denny footage, we all realized they were killing innocent white people for being white. Game changer right there. It went from some idiots throwing some bottles, vandalizing cop cars and being a nuisance to racially motivated group murder in the streets. I know Denny survived, but we all thought he would die the way his head was caved in, and they intended to murder him, all the while laughing and having a good time. I think if they had showed just one more incident like that the TV, hunting season would have started early that year. As it was, we decided to stay home and let them come to us, but if we had perceived it getting any worse we'd have taken the fight to their neighborhoods instead of waiting for it to come to ours.
There is a reason why Rodney King, Trayvon Martin, Micheal Brown Jr., etc. are household names yet no one has ever heard of Channon Christian or Christopher Newsom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom) and COUNTLESS others.
For those of you who can't carry rifles in the vehicle, what is the policy for pistols?
Unloaded rifle is as good as it gets here. I can have ammo in the car as well, just can't be in the rifle.
It's just stupid, I can drive 30 or so miles west and carry in PA (NH NonResident Permit) or 90miles south and carry in DE (FL NonResident Permit) but not in my own state. Man the day can't come soon enough that we move the hell out.
The people they go after aren't armed.
There was a time in this country where people knew if they crossed the line that they had signed their own death warrants.
Rob enough banks and guys with beltfeds would ambush you on country roads
My point exactly. Armed robbery = eat a belt fed. Owning guns didn't make those robbers polite nor did it make them polite knowing cops and lawmen were armed and hunting for them.
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Roger that.
Living in the "Guns Everywhere State" I forget that not every place has the kickass gun laws we do.
I think I make it sound worse than it is. The carry permit is shall issue and in most countries it takes about 5min unless they are backed up or the background system is down. That's it. You have a permit carry wherever (except obviously gov buildings and schools). There are no other restrictions as far as capacity, type of ammo or looks. If you can CC a AK pistol go ahead. No restrictions on mag capacity, pistol grips, bayo lugs, collapsing stocks, NFA is gtg as well. Only thing you can't have are explosives ....obviously.
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I am honestly surprised no one has gone Ninja Turtle at some of these riots yet. I imagine it is only a matter of time before someone decides to take advantage of the situation. There are miles of tunnels and sewers under most major cities. A person with a suppressed 22 could reak havoc from storm drains on these rioting mobs and no one would ever suspect where it was coming from. Not only that, they would have a clean get away (ain't no cameras down there to watch the turds and needles flow by) unless someone pours gas down the drain system.
With a population of hundreds of millions in this country, someone is eventually bound to say "screw it" and do something similar to ^.
As far as riot preps. Things like riots often have a murphy's law element to them. Catching you with your pants down regardless of your preps. I think the biggest advantage a man could have is to be observant, quick thinking, and adaptable to the situation. Those are far more important to me that any kit.
Dist. Expert 26
08-19-16, 08:58
This is the reason I live in a small town 2+ hours from any "diverse" urban center. Should race riots take hold throughout the country I'll be insulated for a long time, if not indefinitely.
My family, however, is not so lucky. My parents and brothers live in southeast Michigan, less than an hour from Flint and Detroit, and mere minutes from Pontiac. My wife's family lives 30 minutes outside of Raleigh. Since the BLM cancer has become widespread we both carry our pistols with 2 extra mags on our person, water, a full trauma kit, and my carbine in the back with 6 magazines on every trip. Should we get into a Blackhawk down type situation (which isn't so different than the riots we see here, minus the belt feds and RPGs) where my only option is to shoot our way out I'm at least reasonably prepared.
As far as riot preps. Things like riots often have a murphy's law element to them. Catching you with your pants down regardless of your preps. I think the biggest advantage a man could have is to be observant, quick thinking, and adaptable to the situation. Those are far more important to me that any kit.
Here here. Agreed.
Try to be prepared, but be ready to change the plan at any moment based on millions of variables.
Averageman
08-19-16, 09:50
I look at it this way, it can happen anywhere at anytime to anyone. Your best defense is stay alert and aware of where you are and what's going on.
If I have to use my IFAK, Pistol or Carbine in the course of getting to or from somewhere I wanted to/had to go, somewhere along the line I failed at situational awareness.
I'm ready first to avoid a bad situation, if one is forced upon me that's another story.
If I have to use my IFAK, Pistol or Carbine in the course of getting to or from somewhere I wanted to/had to go, somewhere along the line I failed at situational awareness.
I disagree. These things can happen fast..like during your lunch break or faster fast.
Most of the people who do things often plan ahead and communicate before and during these events.
They are like a rapid response team. Usually can get it together faster than the police.
Outlander Systems
08-19-16, 11:12
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_rob
Flash robs operate using speed and sheer numbers in order to intimidate any resistance and complete the act before police can respond. While often viewed as a form of theft or looting (the illegal taking of items), these crimes more closely fit the definition of robbery because the large crowd creates an implied threat of violence should employees or bystanders attempt to intervene. Many investigations into these robberies have shown that they are planned ahead of time using social media, and the participants do not all necessarily know each other personally.
I disagree. These things can happen fast..like during your lunch break or faster fast.
Most of the people who do things often plan ahead and communicate before and during these events.
They are like a rapid response team. Usually can get it together faster than the police.
Averageman
08-19-16, 12:14
I disagree. These things can happen fast..like during your lunch break or faster fast.
Most of the people who do things often plan ahead and communicate before and during these events.
They are like a rapid response team. Usually can get it together faster than the police.
I understand your point, but for the most part Milwaukee, Ferguson, even the LA riots were predictable events and limited to a specific area for the most part. I've yet to see a "Flash Mob" event here in CONUS where the theme was violence, it seems to either be disruption of travel or outright looting.
I think by staying informed on current State and Local events, avoiding bad area's and keeping your head on a swivel you can avoid 99.999% of this stuff.
I would imagine those folks who were pulled from their cars in Milwaukee and assaulted had a few things in common;
They likely didn't live in the area where the riots were happening, when approached in the street by a pedestrian, they stopped their cars and likely rolled down the window to talk to the guy that gave them a beating. I'm also sure that someone wanted to see what all of the riot was about.
Lets take Reginald Denny as an example, the Man got a terrible beating and nearly died, but why on earth when he saw what was going on did he either get out of his truck or allow himself to be pulled out?
People for the most part that get caught up in these things are doing Stupid stuff, with stupider people in stupid places and then are surprised when they win the Stupid Prize?
Had Denny kept aware of what was going on, avoided the area's where there was trouble and used the gas instead of the brake, he would have likely not caught a brick to the melon.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-19-16, 14:36
I live in the suburbs of a major city in Fl and it's not by choice. My goal is to soon be in the country. The common theme is that bad shit happens in the city and immediately around. Bad shit doesn't travel into the sticks, partly because it a long walk and partly because I suspect even the dumbest of the dumb know better. Go screw with some rancher and not only are you likely to end up dead, but there's not going to be anyone around to hear, much less see what happened.
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Averageman
08-19-16, 14:56
You-Tube some Reginald Denny stuff. He stopped for an accident, but had plenty of room to go around it. He should have gone heavy on the right foot and just kept moving. You can watch one guy open his door and three guys pull him out.
The guys who delivered the smack down were unrepentant and one admitted it was because Denny was white and he was enraged by the court decision. Denny lost his job/career and the assailants walked, yeah they may have done some time for other things, but they walked on Denny's attempted murder.
You know when that stuff went down it was all over the radio, turning the truck around and calling in sick would have been a much better idea than a brick to the head..
My point exactly. Armed robbery = eat a belt fed. Owning guns didn't make those robbers polite nor did it make them polite knowing cops and lawmen were armed and hunting for them.
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An armed society is a polite society is a euphemism for MAD on a smaller scale. Doesn't mean that if everyone has guns crime mysteriously disppear. MAD, detente didnt stop Baader Meinhoff from blowing shit up, or even Iran taking the embassy. It did deter those who felt they had something to loose.
Same applies for the smaller scale of a community. Generally the justice system is the threat against criminal behavior. Dont want to commit a crime cause you might go to jail. Our transition to the legal system where little consequences exist and its a crap shoot if youll even get some punishment diminishes that threat significantly. So you embolden criminals to act. BLM asshattery is the latest example of it. Armed individuals combined with laws that protect crime victims in case they ahve to defend themselves re-injects some check and balance against the emboldened criminals. They now have to decide if the crime is worth catching a bullet. Not all will make a good choice, but if it saves just one child its worth it. Not all crime will disappear. A chunk of it will increase. Burglary and other property crimes may rise as criminals who do decide that catching a bullet aint worth it are sure as shit not going to go out and get a job. They will convert from crimes against people to lower risk alternatives. But again, if it saves one child from getting raped or attacked its worth it.
How long before a drunk driver plows through one of these crowds. Wonder whose fault it will be; the police for not protecting the crowd, the crowd for wandering into a highway in clear violation of laws, or the drunk driver? Quadruple PC points if the driver is a minority.
Straight Shooter
08-19-16, 20:57
You-Tube some Reginald Denny stuff. He stopped for an accident, but had plenty of room to go around it. He should have gone heavy on the right foot and just kept moving. You can watch one guy open his door and three guys pull him out.
The guys who delivered the smack down were unrepentant and one admitted it was because Denny was white and he was enraged by the court decision. Denny lost his job/career and the assailants walked, yeah they may have done some time for other things, but they walked on Denny's attempted murder.
You know when that stuff went down it was all over the radio, turning the truck around and calling in sick would have been a much better idea than a brick to the head..
When I drove OTR for 13 years..there were more than several times I was prepared to absolutely run over some folks. Once, I thought some thugs were gonna jump on my running boards and I was totally ready to run up alongside a light pole and some street signs to swipe em off, luckily FOR THEM they didn't. He was STUPID for stopping, and he shoulda never been in the area, especially if he knew what was going down.
You-Tube some Reginald Denny stuff. He stopped for an accident, but had plenty of room to go around it. He should have gone heavy on the right foot and just kept moving. You can watch one guy open his door and three guys pull him out.
The guys who delivered the smack down were unrepentant and one admitted it was because Denny was white and he was enraged by the court decision. Denny lost his job/career and the assailants walked, yeah they may have done some time for other things, but they walked on Denny's attempted murder.
You know when that stuff went down it was all over the radio, turning the truck around and calling in sick would have been a much better idea than a brick to the head..
I can't bring myself to blame him too much.
Not everyone see's the solution, they only see the problem. And if Denny ran anyone over, they'd have murdered him without question.
He was STUPID for stopping, and he shoulda never been in the area, especially if he knew what was going down.
As another Angeleno who lived thru the LA Riots, I can tell you that the news, and police were almost useless for the first part of that day. There was initially some protesting that started downtown after the verdict was released, but kind of fizzled out. You would't have known to stay away from that intersection until you were at it. No one knew how bad it was until news traffic choppers got overhead. There had been no alerts, warnings, nothing. The LAPD had retreated from the area, didn't even bother with it for what seemed like an eternity, and even then did zero. Local good folk is what kept people from being outright murdered in the streets.
For situational awareness today, I'd monitor Twitter and Instagram trending in my area.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
Mr. Goodtimes
08-20-16, 06:05
Out of curiosity, what are some educated thoughts on using rubber buck shot to possibly dissuade people from getting any closer prior to using lethal force?
I bring this up because, say for example, shit heads are acting like shit heads on your street and maybe there up in your yard, vandalizing etc... You tell them to get lost and they don't... So why not use some bean bag rounds or rubber buck shot prior to using lethal force? I think I already know the answer but I would like to see the common consensus from some more educated folks, particularly from a legal stand point.
The reason I bring this up is because if you smoke some ass hole throwing Molotov cocktails in your front yard, while maybe you won't go to jail, the police will show up and take you're 3,700 AR-15. In my case, that's my only long gun so, now I'm pretty much screwed. I killed a couple of home boys and now I've got no substantial means of protection, I'm thinking I would have a Reginald Denny type fate ahead of me but likely worse.
On the other hand, if you nail a couple with bean bag rounds or rubber buck shot, they may get the idea... Like hey "that hurt like **** and clearly that house is armed, maybe Weel go burn shit down on this other block." Obviously if that doesn't work there's always lethal force. I'm just thinking of it as a particular tool to use in a particular situation.
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On the other hand, if you nail a couple with bean bag rounds or rubber buck shot, they may get the idea... Like hey "that hurt like **** and clearly that house is armed, maybe Weel go burn shit down on this other block." Obviously if that doesn't work there's always lethal force. I'm just thinking of it as a particular tool to use in a particular situation.
The major problem being that you would then have to explain yourself for "attempted murder" if the people in question were not posing an immediate and direct threat to you or your family.
If you're shooting, it better be to defend your life or the life of a family member, and you better be prepared that your actions may take the life of another. Even rubber buckshot and bean bags are lethal rounds. They're LESS lethal, but that second word is what matters.
Straight Shooter
08-20-16, 07:21
I can't bring myself to blame him too much.
Not everyone see's the solution, they only see the problem. And if Denny ran anyone over, they'd have murdered him without question.
Brother...they TRIED to murder him, anyway. When whitey is in those areas during those times..you could be a priest walking with nuns, and the lot of you will still be murdered. "Cuz yoo white". No matter what you are, or are not doing.
Straight Shooter
08-20-16, 07:26
As another Angeleno who lived thru the LA Riots, I can tell you that the news, and police were almost useless for the first part of that day. There was initially some protesting that started downtown after the verdict was released, but kind of fizzled out. You would't have known to stay away from that intersection until you were at it. No one knew how bad it was until news traffic choppers got overhead. There had been no alerts, warnings, nothing. The LAPD had retreated from the area, didn't even bother with it for what seemed like an eternity, and even then did zero. Local good folk is what kept people from being outright murdered in the streets.
For situational awareness today, I'd monitor Twitter and Instagram trending in my area.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
So, the poor guy just stumbled upon it, essentially. That answers a decades long question of mine, as to why he was there to start with.
Again, as one who has also stumbled upon stuff in a truck..you gotta ALWAYS be ready to MASH THAT GAS. Its about your only defense. I never carried whilst driving, I never knew when Id get a load up to Canada, and I drove an awful lot "up north" in enemy territory..NJ, NY, CT, MA, ect.ect. Ida been "crucified" had they found a firearm in the truck. Rules are vastly different for commercial drivers.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-20-16, 07:35
The major problem being that you would then have to explain yourself for "attempted murder" if the people in question were not posing an immediate and direct threat to you or your family.
If you're shooting, it better be to defend your life or the life of a family member, and you better be prepared that your actions may take the life of another. Even rubber buckshot and bean bags are lethal rounds. They're LESS lethal, but that second word is what matters.
That's what I had thought. It would seem to fall entirely under the uncle joe warning shot line of thinking.
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Averageman
08-20-16, 09:00
I can't bring myself to blame him too much.
Not everyone see's the solution, they only see the problem. And if Denny ran anyone over, they'd have murdered him without question.
He didn't have to run anyone over, all he had to do was to keep moving. After watching the Video's and reading the articles he took little action to save himself and the guys who assaulted him are still unrepentant about what they did to him.
You know when I see a grown man have a chance to save himself and not take it, he owns a bit of whatever happens to him.
The very idea of warning shots is based upon someone seeing you are armed and not having the sense to know you intend to defend yourself.
We've de-evolved to the concept of placing our fundamental safety and security in the hands of some folks who may well have the best of intentions, but likely wont be there until your life or death situation has been over with for some time.
He was STUPID for stopping, and he shoulda never been in the area, especially if he knew what was going down.
Can't disagree with you there, BUT, there is this phenomenon whereby good guys who have a kind, innocent and peaceful heart do not understand unprovoked violence against them. It looked to me like Reginald Denny was trying to talk to his fellow man and reason with them. "Hey man, its all okay, I love you guys and mean you no harm…" He did not, or perhaps could not, understand their mind frame.
I understand this because it is EXACTLY what I did when I received my first ass beating for being the wrong color in the wrong area at the wrong time. At 12 years old I had ZERO concept of racism. I didn't hate anybody for any reason, and I had friends and neighbors of all colors shapes and sizes and loved them all. When those f*ckers first chased me down yelling "Get whitely!!!" and "We goin' to F*CK you up, cracka-ass mutha f*cka…" and "Yeah! Sock eem up!!!", I did not understand what I could have done to make them angry at me. I didn't know them and I had done nothing "wrong" to any of them. The smallest of them was twice my size and there were always between 6 and 10 of them. The first time it happened I had my hands out front like Reginald Denny did, and I tried to make friends and let them know I was their neighbor and buddy, not their enemy. I tried to [I]reason[I] with them. It didn't work. I went home bloody and bruised and told my Mom I crashed on my bike. I was embarrassed and terrified. The second time it happened I again resorted to my good, peaceful nature and again started trying to reason with them. About half way through that second beating something dark and evil awakened within me. I began lashing out and fighting back like a trapped animal. There was no bravery or logical thought. It was like a violent demon took me over and I hurt them. They still beat the hell out of me, but I hurt several of them bad. Collectively, they lost more blood than I did that time, yet I still suffered a terrible beating. The third time, it was game on. Once I was surrounded I instinctively lunged at the biggest, ugliest mofo in the group with no thought of self-preservation, really no thought at all. You know in those vampire movies where a dude flies across 20 feet of open space defying physics? That's about what it looked like. The demon within took over and I flew at his face. I latched on to his head with my arms and his torso with my legs and I bit his ear off. Each punch to my head tore the ear farther off. I like to think that years later I was Mike Tyson's inspiration. They eventually got me off of him, but he was not in the mood to beat whitey anymore. Mind you I weighed about 80 pounds and these a-holes were 4-5 years older and all of them were members of the local high school football team. I was 12-13 and they were 16-17. Once I was on the ground they were all kicking me and I looked right up one guy's workout shorts and grabbed on to whatever I could reach. I pulled him screaming onto his knees and grabbed on with both hands and tried like hell to rip it off. Each punch and kick transmitted the shock to his man parts and he was crying for them to stop hitting me. They tried to pull me loose and the harder they pulled the more things ripped. Eventually my hands slipped off because they were covered in his blood. I learned that blood is slippery that day. I jumped to my feet ready to kill the next SOB within range, but they all beat a hasty retreat and ran away. They had to carry Mr. torn scrotum away since he couldn't or wouldn't stand. And I stood there like a fire breathing dragon just seething anger and fury for a minute. When I realized they were really gone and I was on my feet and still alive, I dropped to my knees and cried like a baby. I was covered in blood, THEIR blood, and I was only a little bruised up that time. I remember kneeling there on somebody's front lawn and realizing how many cars and people were passing by and doing nothing. Here was a little boy covered in blood kneeling and crying on a lawn next to the side walk, and not one person stopped. I saw some of them looking. Learned another lesson there. I never heard of another white kid getting jumped after that day. To my knowledge it never happened again. I moved out of that area for college about 9 years after that.
Most people grow up in nice neighborhoods and maybe have a few childhood fights over some sort of playground dispute, but how many people are mobbed by the high school football team when they are 12? I don't think most people, people like Reginald Denny, can comprehend that sort of hate and violence. How could they? Had I grown up somewhere else and not gone through all that, I would not be capable of understanding it. I think most people would never even think of committing horrible acts of violence against innocent children for no good reason, so they can't understand the danger they are in, in a situation like that. Call it ignorance or stupidity, but many decent people have just never seen "the dark side" of human nature in our "civilized" society and have no practical knowledge of it. This explains the ignorance of middle aged white people with signs supporting Trayvon Martin. They just don't understand who he was or what he was doing. They've never had contact with an evil goblin like that, so they don't understand evil goblins like that. They are unable to put themselves in the goblin mind frame, and they themselves would never commit the evil acts that Trayvon regularly committed, so they are literally unable to comprehend a person like that. Not me. I know those goblins well. Grew up living with a bunch of them. I know lots of white and hispanic goblins too, lest anyone think I have something against one race or another. I don't. I still have many black friends and two of my three mentors in life were black men. I owe them a debt of gratitude that can never be repaid. The first one literally saved my life.
Averageman: We've de-evolved to the concept of placing our fundamental safety and security in the hands of some folks who may well have the best of intentions, but likely wont be there until your life or death situation has been over with for some time.
For my money, you just described the entire Western world, from Europe to DC to Mayberry...
"What fools these mortals be."
Out of curiosity, what are some educated thoughts on using rubber buck shot to possibly dissuade people from getting any closer prior to using lethal force?
I bring this up because, say for example, shit heads are acting like shit heads on your street and maybe there up in your yard, vandalizing etc... You tell them to get lost and they don't... So why not use some bean bag rounds or rubber buck shot prior to using lethal force? I think I already know the answer but I would like to see the common consensus from some more educated folks, particularly from a legal stand point.
The reason I bring this up is because if you smoke some ass hole throwing Molotov cocktails in your front yard, while maybe you won't go to jail, the police will show up and take you're 3,700 AR-15. In my case, that's my only long gun so, now I'm pretty much screwed. I killed a couple of home boys and now I've got no substantial means of protection, I'm thinking I would have a Reginald Denny type fate ahead of me but likely worse.
On the other hand, if you nail a couple with bean bag rounds or rubber buck shot, they may get the idea... Like hey "that hurt like **** and clearly that house is armed, maybe Weel go burn shit down on this other block." Obviously if that doesn't work there's always lethal force. I'm just thinking of it as a particular tool to use in a particular situation.
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If deadly force is not justified, then you can't be shooting anything into that crowd.
If deadly force is justified, then you better be dropping those criminals as fast as you can, because the survivors won't be shooting rubber bullets back at you.
I mean you no insult here, but your post and question demonstrate a level of naivety about your opponent. I don't think you comprehend what you'd be up against in a situation like what you describe. Am I wrong? Have you previously dabbled in debauchery? My apologies in advice, if I'm missing the boat here.
Also, you would not be alone in most cases. Other good guys would be there to back you, as they want to save their houses and families too. My whole neighborhood rose up against the rioters and we had nothing bad happen in our little area while everything around us burned. Literally.
And the police showing up to take your guns or arrest you? No. Not in that sort of situation. During the L.A. riots there were no police. There was no law. The only law was the law of survival. We couldn't escape the situation and we weren't going to let them have their way with us or our neighborhood. We were prepared to kill or die in defense of self and our neighbors. Luckily, seeing that were were prepared in such a way, the criminals of the day did not force us to kill them. Like most cowards, they left to look for an easier target. More than anything, that was the lesson of the day. Be a hard target. The risk will outweigh the benefit for the vast majority of rioting thugs.
I can't bring myself to blame him too much.
Not everyone see's the solution, they only see the problem. And if Denny ran anyone over, they'd have murdered him without question.
Blame or not, he could have motored right through that crowd. That tractor had enough torque to push through the mob with no problem, and most of them would have quickly moved out of the way. When I watched that footage so many years ago, my instinct would have been to floor it and get the hell out of there. But he really thought he was going to reason with those guys. He was naive and ignorant and paid the price for it.
The question I always pondered was: What if he did motor out of there and leave a bunch of smashed dead rioters in his wake? Would the media have shown it? Would word have spread? As it was, seeing what happened to that innocent man made a lot of the rioting crowd take a step back and reconsider their course of action. The majority of them felt it was wrong and they felt sympathy. Had Reggi killed even more people of color while literally running for his life, would things have escalated? Would it have been an all out race war? I think it would have.
Someone with a Molotov cocktail in my front yard IS a threat to me and mine and would be dealt with accordingly. This isn't bravado, it's the cold hard truth. I have a high level of hatred for scum and it would likely reflect in my actions. Of course, as I stated earlier, I live out in the sticks so anyone out there would definitely be up to no good.
Not a bad article: http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapons/articles/2007/12/how-to-deploy-impact-munitions.aspx
How to Deploy Impact Munitions
There's more to shooting non-lethal projectiles than looking down the barrel and squeezing the trigger.
About 45 years ago, American law enforcement officers started experimenting with and using impact munitions. These early lightweight impact munitions were made of wood or rubber and varied in shape and size. They were used primarily to quell riots or break up large fights within correctional institutions.
Today, law enforcement has access to a wide range of impact munitions that can be used for numerous applications. Yes, rubber and wooden baton rounds are still used in riot control, but more sophisticated impact rounds can be used to prevent suicides, to stop dog attacks, and in other uses that might have once required lethal force.
Impact munitions-whether they be rubber, wood, or even electronic like the new TASER eXtended Range Electronic Projectile (XREP)-are specially designed projectiles that are made to strike a subject's body, causing non-lethal blunt trauma and incapacitation. Unfortunately, when used incorrectly or when fired at the wrong angle, some impact munitions can cause serious injury and even death.
Out of curiosity, what are some educated thoughts on using rubber buck shot to possibly dissuade people from getting any closer prior to using lethal force?
I bring this up because, say for example, shit heads are acting like shit heads on your street and maybe there up in your yard, vandalizing etc... You tell them to get lost and they don't... So why not use some bean bag rounds or rubber buck shot prior to using lethal force? I think I already know the answer but I would like to see the common consensus from some more educated folks, particularly from a legal stand point.
The reason I bring this up is because if you smoke some ass hole throwing Molotov cocktails in your front yard, while maybe you won't go to jail, the police will show up and take you're 3,700 AR-15. In my case, that's my only long gun so, now I'm pretty much screwed. I killed a couple of home boys and now I've got no substantial means of protection, I'm thinking I would have a Reginald Denny type fate ahead of me but likely worse.
On the other hand, if you nail a couple with bean bag rounds or rubber buck shot, they may get the idea... Like hey "that hurt like **** and clearly that house is armed, maybe Weel go burn shit down on this other block." Obviously if that doesn't work there's always lethal force. I'm just thinking of it as a particular tool to use in a particular situation.
Look at any rioting mass of people from the perspective that there are 3 layers - 1) Jihadists - the totally committed; 2) The Sunday Christians - believe in the cause, but little beyond lip service; 3) Current Cool Issue and their Tagalongs - I'm here because my girlfriend is here and I hope to get laid after the riot.
Textbook-wise, from the police perspective the goal is to disperse the crowd by stripping away the layers leaving the committed for arrest. Chemical agents work best for this because of their impersonal nature. Direct-fire munitions and riot control formations moving into crowds quickly personalize things and, in a portion of the population harden their resolve.
The rubber pellets will probably get rid of the less-determined folks, but what are left will be out for blood. Some of them will be acting as Bulletdog described, beserker-like. I learned not to punch folks in the face after a guy didn't fold and went apeshit on me.
As a citizen I wouldn't shoot anything at a group of people except real bullets, and then only to protect myself or family.
So, the poor guy just stumbled upon it, essentially. That answers a decades long question of mine, as to why he was there to start with.
That's correct. And coupled with Denny's demeanor, which was to try to Dali Lama his way out of it by being non-confrontational, it went to crap.
I know everyone say "just drive thru that shite!", but that's terribly naive. While you may be forced to as a last resort, try like hell to avoid it. There's ground footage from an hour or two earlier where people tried to rocket thru the intersection to get away from the violence, and cars collided with other cross-traffic. Those that TURNED THEIR VEHICLES AROUND AND WENT THE OTHER WAY were the ones that came away unscathed.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
We talked about long guns and pistols earlier in this discussion and being a "grey" man.
What is a good way to store a bunch of pistol mags in your vehicle for quick grab n go? Be able to conceal you have them, yet have fast access to reload?
In any bag is fine, but you want to be able to get one without dumping the rest on the ground.
And how many mags? 4? 10?
That's correct. And coupled with Denny's demeanor, which was to try to Dali Lama his way out of it by being non-confrontational, it went to crap.
I know everyone say "just drive thru that shite!", but that's terribly naive. While you may be forced to as a last resort, try like hell to avoid it. There's ground footage from an hour or two earlier where people tried to rocket thru the intersection to get away from the violence, and cars collided with other cross-traffic. Those that TURNED THEIR VEHICLES AROUND AND WENT THE OTHER WAY were the ones that came away unscathed.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
I thought about that too...there is so much traffic in my area, if a few people try to blast through, it will only end up in vehicle crashes. And when those cars don't go anymore (fenders into tires, fire, no visibility due to smoke, steam, broken windsheild, injured driver, etc) those folks are getting pulled out and killed.
I started another thread about melee weapons. Then I learned about that woman who hit the rioter/demonstrator in the road recently. When she stopped they threw bullets at her and apparently multiple demonstrators/rioters had pistols.
Not a game for swords unless your out bullets. Don't run out of bullets.
And the police showing up to take your guns or arrest you? No. Not in that sort of situation. During the L.A. riots there were no police. There was no law. The only law was the law of survival. We couldn't escape the situation and we weren't going to let them have their way with us or our neighborhood. We were prepared to kill or die in defense of self and our neighbors. Luckily, seeing that were were prepared in such a way, the criminals of the day did not force us to kill them. Like most cowards, they left to look for an easier target. More than anything, that was the lesson of the day. Be a hard target. The risk will outweigh the benefit for the vast majority of rioting thugs.
^^^Truth^^^
While the LAPD has a vastly different response to these incidents today, the police will be too busy to deal with your single, solitary ass. If things did go that way, with bloodshed and an investigation right then, I'd pack my stuff up and leave. Once the cops leave, retribution would likely be swift. If you make it thru the initial bad times, leaving the area might be better than trying to do it all again (circumstances depending).
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
Out of curiosity, what are some educated thoughts on using rubber buck shot to possibly dissuade people from getting any closer prior to using lethal force?
I bring this up because, say for example, shit heads are acting like shit heads on your street and maybe there up in your yard, vandalizing etc... You tell them to get lost and they don't... So why not use some bean bag rounds or rubber buck shot prior to using lethal force? I think I already know the answer but I would like to see the common consensus from some more educated folks, particularly from a legal stand point.
The reason I bring this up is because if you smoke some ass hole throwing Molotov cocktails in your front yard, while maybe you won't go to jail, the police will show up and take you're 3,700 AR-15. In my case, that's my only long gun so, now I'm pretty much screwed. I killed a couple of home boys and now I've got no substantial means of protection, I'm thinking I would have a Reginald Denny type fate ahead of me but likely worse.
On the other hand, if you nail a couple with bean bag rounds or rubber buck shot, they may get the idea... Like hey "that hurt like **** and clearly that house is armed, maybe Weel go burn shit down on this other block." Obviously if that doesn't work there's always lethal force. I'm just thinking of it as a particular tool to use in a particular situation.
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This to me falls in line with a warning shot. You are going to worked up by LE the same way as if you fired real ammo. You have departments now that will put an Officer through a IA investigation for a completely legal and sound taser deployment. Imagine what those Depts will do to you for shooting rubber rounds.
Look at like this: if a city or juristiction is so liberal as to allow these riots to rock on unopposed, that is not a dept you want to legally tangle with for LTL rounds.
That's just my opinion.
Someone with a Molotov cocktail in my front yard IS a threat to me and mine and would be dealt with accordingly. This isn't bravado, it's the cold hard truth. I have a high level of hatred for scum and it would likely reflect in my actions. Of course, as I stated earlier, I live out in the sticks so anyone out there would definitely be up to no good.
There are many places where an arsonist constitutes a lethal threat. So act accordingly.
If there's no law or no law enforcement coming nor staying then it's frontier rules as far as I'm concerned.
When law gets restored, feel free to try me. Until then, you didn't or couldn't do your job, so I had to.
These people chucking molotovs into gas stations aren't worried, why should I be.
I think a pile of face down bodies like in Africa, sunrotting, would definitely take the nerve out of people. It's not like TV. Especially when the smell kicks in.
So....I think it should never get to that point. If they ain't arresting them then they ain't arresting me.
That's the piss poor precedent being set and why these riots are allowed to occur. Show your natural ass with enough people and nothing happens to you.
I have said before and maintain that if SOPs are not developed and properly instituted that there will be an American My Lai massacre. Wrong neighborhood, wrong perceived notions of "softness" and a bodycount in the hundreds.
The media, esp. Don Downlow Lemon likes to agitprop rhis and agitprop this. Cops are already leery of doing their job as-is and are already more hestitant because of race BS or "we hate da poleese" BS. So response times will be slower and it will escalate and then the world will condemn it and say it's proof of how backwards we are.
No. They are going after immigrant store owners, the elderly, and the weak.
You know, the "soft" people. But those people are important to OTHER people and once a few hundred get wasted they'll piss and moan for the AG, the SPLC, and anyone else for "justice".
I tell many people this. Nobody ever caught hell by staying home and minding their own business.
All these "good boys didnt do nothing just trying to make it" are pieces of shit and quite frankly deserved to die.
Why aren't these same people keeping kids in school, telling girls not to get pregnant, and telling kids that gangs are BS? Oh I know. No money. No excuse to loot.
You know....a lot of people try very hard to be role models. Help out. Give a shit.
And some nasty ass ghetto WHORE will tell her young, innocent child "See that police? He gonna put you in jail" if you walk inside a haji shop or paki mart to take a piss.....and they don't give a good god damn that it is embedding into their impressionable minds that "Police = Bad Guy".
But hey.....whatever happens happens
Averageman
08-21-16, 02:53
I keep a pretty good idea of what's going on.
I watch the news before work, if it's a local story, I know about it. I switch over to the National news after I shower, again, if it's a story I know about it. I buy the paper on Sunday along with my coffee and kolache, so again, I stay informed.
If I felt like the day was going to get sketchy, I'm lucky enough to have a job where I can call in, if I get caught at work, again, I will call in and go home.
The deal is, there isn't a job out there anymore that's worth me putting my wrinkly old butt on the line for, I will save that butt on the line stuff for me.
I will be the old guy puttering around the yard with his truck in the driveway. Pulling weeds and looking all Walt Kowalski with the AM radio going on the local station. I just traded Walt's 1911A1 and a Garand for a G-17 and a dandy AR. G-17 at 4 on my belt and my AR 8 steps away in the truck.
So when the smoke clears, I will follow my same routine and go back to work. No sweat, no hassle, but if you bring that riot stuff to the Burbs all full of bluff and bluster pack a lunch and a body bag kid, 'cause this old fart isn't playing.
Stay Home, Stay Cool. It's not my fight anymore unless you make it my fight.
Moose-Knuckle
08-21-16, 05:00
The reason I bring this up is because if you smoke some ass hole throwing Molotov cocktails in your front yard . . .
Attempting to use fire bombs on an occupied habitation is justifiable use of deadly force to prevent loss of life and property.
Moose-Knuckle
08-21-16, 05:13
snip. . .there is this phenomenon whereby good guys who have a kind, innocent and peaceful heart do not understand unprovoked violence against them. snip
This is alien to me, my parents raised me and taught me the facts of life. I never had to stick my head up a steer's ass to know there was a steak up there somewhere.
I don't mean any offense to you with my comment as you have shared with us the type of childhood you had in another thread. I just can't imagine raising a kid and not teaching them that there are those out there that will simply kill you just to watch you die.
I read . . . A LOT . . . . and can fill volumes with the atrocities committed by the oxygen thieves that walk amongst us.
Moose-Knuckle
08-21-16, 05:15
And the police showing up to take your guns or arrest you? No. Not in that sort of situation.
They did in NOLA after Katrina . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4
They did in NOLA after Katrina . . .
A lot more of this happened than most people realize and it was just plain wrong.
Attempting to use fire bombs on an occupied habitation is justifiable use of deadly force to prevent loss of life and property.
Sure is in Fl. Anytime of day. I don't think it has to occupied either. Just "arson to a structure" IIRC.
This is alien to me, my parents raised me and taught me the facts of life. I never had to stick my head up a steer's ass to know there was a steak up there somewhere.
I don't mean any offense to you with my comment as you have shared with us the type of childhood you had in another thread. I just can't imagine raising a kid and not teaching them that there are those out there that will simply kill you just to watch you die.
I read . . . A LOT . . . . and can fill volumes with the atrocities committed by the oxygen thieves that walk amongst us.
Surely you realize that you are more astute and informed than the "average" American walking around out there?
There are absolutely those in our society that know darn good and well the evil that lurks in men's hearts. My point above is to illustrate that there are many among us, like Reginald Denny, that either don't see it, or don't want to believe it.
They did in NOLA after Katrina . . .
Point taken.
However, a couple of things:
1. The aftermath of Katrina is a different situation that the L.A. riots. No one was going door to door confiscating anything during the L.A. riots.
2. IIRC the NRA pushed a law through to forbid that sort of Katrina confiscation from ever happening again. Not the our current administration won't simply ignore inconvenient laws as it usually does, but hey, its something.
They did in NOLA after Katrina . . .
As bulletdog mentioned a federal law passed banning police from confiscating private firearms in such situations after this came to light. But the Obama administration and certainly any democrat administration will likely turn a blind eye.
As bulletdog mentioned a federal law passed banning police from confiscating private firearms in such situations after this came to light. But the Obama administration and certainly any democrat administration will likely turn a blind eye.
The way things have been going, I'm not sure a Republican administration wouldn't turn a blind eye too. Patriot Act anyone?
The way things have been going, I'm not sure a Republican administration wouldn't turn a blind eye too. Patriot Act anyone?
Solid point but I think at this point you would receive a LOT more push back from citizens then you would have in previous years.
I'd hate to see good people put in the position to try unlawfully confiscate guns from law abiding citizens especially when a lot of gun owners purchase them to protect themselves especially in situations like riots/civil unrest and natural disasters.
The way things have been going, I'm not sure a Republican administration wouldn't turn a blind eye too. Patriot Act anyone?
There is no reason to turn a blind eye. As long as people in a disaster area are not engaged in criminal activity, there is no reason to approach them and ask if they own a firearm. The Democrats that were in control of Louisiana at the time Katrina reeked havoc did not want looters to be injured by people who were trying to protect their homes.
Averageman
08-21-16, 16:50
They are asking Germans to stock up on food water and medical supplies.
This is quite a bit different than what we are hearing.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faz.net%2Faktuell%2Fpolitik%2Finland%2Ff-a-s-exklusiv-so-will-die-bundesregierung-im-kriegsfall-reagieren-14398973.html&edit-text=&act=url
The federal government wants to encourage the population again for stockpiling, so that they in the event of major disasters or of armed attack temporarily can take care of himself. "The population is stopped, hold up a personal supply of food of ten days", according to the "civil defense concept", which is to decide the Cabinet on Wednesday.
The federal government also penetrates to an adequate supply of drinking water. "The population should be encouraged by appropriate means, to own / first aid reproach two liters of water per person per day in not harmful quality to installation state individual measures for a period of five days," it said in the concept.
She had been in 2012 commissioned by the Budget Committee of the Bundestag and was parallel to the White Paper on the security policy. As it states in the 69-page concept, "that an attack on the territory of Germany, which requires a conventional defense, play" was.But "nevertheless to such sufficiently prepared not fundamentally excluded for the future life-threatening development" requires security screening.
Hmmm....I suppose they are preparing for the inevitable. I thought they had oodles of G3s tucked away in Cosmoline.
Meh, they've been playing Children of Men on TV a lot lately. Take out the sterility and it's like current events.
I think a pile of face down bodies like in Africa, sunrotting, would definitely take the nerve out of people. It's not like TV. Especially when the smell kicks in.
Hey, come on, didn't some old salty officer tell you 'put some Noxzema in your mustache, it'll cover the smell.' Poor old guy popped when they moved him. I believed my mom, my dad, and my DI's, why wouldn't I believe an old salty officer?
Hey, come on, didn't some old salty officer tell you 'put some Noxzema in your mustache, it'll cover the smell.' Poor old guy popped when they moved him. I believed my mom, my dad, and my DI's, why wouldn't I believe an old salty officer?
Actually, I learned why a lot of guys dip and chain smoke. I was told by an ME that the whole Vapor Rub under the nose like on TV actually opens up your nose so you can smell AND taste it.
I think the worst was a fat guy who died in the summer and looked like the Tar Baby he had decomposed so bad. Good laaaaaaawwwd that stank. I literally almost puked. It was just overwhelming. I learned that day that a few cans of Febreze and some carpenter's masks weren't bad to keep in the car.
But yeah a lot of guys smoke because cancerous clouds are actually more aromatically pleasing than some of the odors one may encounter. Especially grown drunk men who soil themselves just to make life hard.
As bulletdog mentioned a federal law passed banning police from confiscating private firearms in such situations after this came to light. But the Obama administration and certainly any democrat administration will likely turn a blind eye.
I don't believe it was a federal law. Some states have done so but I don't recall there being a fed law to that effect. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Moose-Knuckle
08-22-16, 04:06
Surely you realize that you are more astute and informed than the "average" American walking around out there?
Yeap, I realize that . . . still amazes me when I hear/read of such accounts.
Point taken.
However, a couple of things:
1. The aftermath of Katrina is a different situation that the L.A. riots. No one was going door to door confiscating anything during the L.A. riots.
2. IIRC the NRA pushed a law through to forbid that sort of Katrina confiscation from ever happening again. Not the our current administration won't simply ignore inconvenient laws as it usually does, but hey, its something.
This is a thread about riot preparation in general, not just the Rodney King riot alone. While Katrina wasn't a "riot", after the natural disaster civil unrest was rampant and the rule of law went out the window. Another member posted concerns of being disarmed by LE during a prolonged riot, it didn't happen in LA in the 90's but it has happened. And no law is going to stop the likes of Hillary from attempting to disarm We the People.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-22-16, 05:19
The major problem being that you would then have to explain yourself for "attempted murder" if the people in question were not posing an immediate and direct threat to you or your family.
If you're shooting, it better be to defend your life or the life of a family member, and you better be prepared that your actions may take the life of another. Even rubber buckshot and bean bags are lethal rounds. They're LESS lethal, but that second word is what matters.
If deadly force is not justified, then you can't be shooting anything into that crowd.
If deadly force is justified, then you better be dropping those criminals as fast as you can, because the survivors won't be shooting rubber bullets back at you.
I mean you no insult here, but your post and question demonstrate a level of naivety about your opponent. I don't think you comprehend what you'd be up against in a situation like what you describe. Am I wrong? Have you previously dabbled in debauchery? My apologies in advice, if I'm missing the boat here.
Also, you would not be alone in most cases. Other good guys would be there to back you, as they want to save their houses and families too. My whole neighborhood rose up against the rioters and we had nothing bad happen in our little area while everything around us burned. Literally.
And the police showing up to take your guns or arrest you? No. Not in that sort of situation. During the L.A. riots there were no police. There was no law. The only law was the law of survival. We couldn't escape the situation and we weren't going to let them have their way with us or our neighborhood. We were prepared to kill or die in defense of self and our neighbors. Luckily, seeing that were were prepared in such a way, the criminals of the day did not force us to kill them. Like most cowards, they left to look for an easier target. More than anything, that was the lesson of the day. Be a hard target. The risk will outweigh the benefit for the vast majority of rioting thugs.
I absolutely have dabbled in debauchery, and naive I am not. I see the worst in people almost every shift. I see a riot as something slightly different then, say, a home invasion. It was slightly taken out of context. When I brought up the use of less lethal rounds, it was meant as something supplemental to use before things got out of control, and I really already knew it was a bad idea, I was just looking to see if maybe there was something I was missing.
I agree entirely that burning down the hood is justifiable cause for use of lethal force, and I would not hesitate.
Somebody else made a point a few posts back, and I feel it's what I was trying to get at in relationship to the use of less lethal. Out of ten of those retards, probably one is an actual dedicated, out for blood attacker, the others are probably just hipsters along for the ride. My idea was to use the less lethal as a way of sorting out the rock stars from the groupies and then using lethal force on the rock stars.
That's all given that time would permit, and one example. Obviously riots are very dynamic in nature and less lethal may not be an option. When there's no time to be able to discern who's a rock star and who's a groupie... You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't believe it was a federal law. Some states have done so but I don't recall there being a fed law to that effect. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
It was originally HR 5013 in the Federal system and its provisions have been signed into law.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_Recovery_Personal_Protection_Act_of_2006
Terrible reference, it is a starting point. I will get another.
http://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Disaster%20Recovery%20Personal%20Protection%20Act&item_type=topic
It was originally HR 5013 in the Federal system and its provisions have been signed into law.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_Recovery_Personal_Protection_Act_of_2006
Terrible reference, it is a starting point. I will get another.
http://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Disaster%20Recovery%20Personal%20Protection%20Act&item_type=topic
I (happily) stand corrected. Now for the pessimist side of me: it allows recourse after the fact. Kind of like "No, you shouldn't have done that". I seriously doubt it would prevent an attempted disarmament. The authoritahs can live with a rebuke or hand slap afterwards. Kind of like a lot of LEO's on here say "Comply and let the courts sort it out later". :rolleyes:
I (happily) stand corrected. Now for the pessimist side of me: it allows recourse after the fact. Kind of like "No, you shouldn't have done that". I seriously doubt it would prevent an attempted disarmament. The authoritahs can live with a rebuke or hand slap afterwards. Kind of like a lot of LEO's on here say "Comply and let the courts sort it out later". :rolleyes:
Yup. No matter what the law says, you're going to have a certain percentage of individual officers who follow the law, and ones that make up their own rules. No different than today, really.
SCOTUS basically gave them immunity in Heien v. North Carolina. The Supreme Court ruled a “police officer’s reasonable mistake of law gives rise to reasonable suspicion that justifies a traffic stop under the Fourth Amendment.”
US v Shelton Barnes went even further. According to the judge, “As an officer untrained in the law, S. A. Bradford cannot reasonably be expected to understand the nuances of the law, especially the ‘maze of Medicare regulations’ — as Dr. Barnes described them — at issue in this case.”
As bulletdog mentioned a federal law passed banning police from confiscating private firearms in such situations after this came to light. But the Obama administration and certainly any democrat administration will likely turn a blind eye.
Our state legislature passed a law prohibiting confiscation in the Katrina aftermath. I heard nothing of a Federal Law doing so.
Averageman
08-22-16, 10:52
So I would guess we've devoted a couple of pages to discussing the law and how it is written and what we can expect in circumstances such as a State or Local Emergency.
So what I have taken away from this is, have your guns in a secure place where you don't have to move them. Don't admit to anything and once it's on, don't try to make a run for more guns and ammo you might have left behind.
Aside from that, I think a Riot situation is much different than a natural disaster in some aspects. When those folks who are out their rioting are getting their groove on, I don't see Law Enforcement having time to d*ck around going door to door outside of the area where the riot is taking place, I personally don't have a need or desire to join some riot, so as long as I remain flying below the radar in the 'burbs, I should be fine?
I have this feeling that as long as I'm not traveling and I'm home or at work, all I have to do is avoid the drama and get home? That might be tricky in some metro area's and I'm sure it is something some folks have to plan for, but many of us just need to keep are heads down and protect life and property.
17 pages and most of the advice given will get you in trouble one way or an other.
Starting in 1980 or 81, was when I infiltrated into my first Palestinian riot, years before the intifada. We were engaging in study of the dynamics of the riot, so that we could come up with a game plan to deal with them should they ever become wide spread. Our advice was not followed but such is life.
Since this point in my life I have been inside many mobs and riots as part of my work.
I then retired from government service and entered into the business world where as luck would have it I have spent a lot of time in Africa and now latin America.
I read of all the stuff some guys carry, and I wonder what they are planning to do if their truck breaks down or the only way out of the riot zone is by foot.
Scenario; Black Americans are rioting, your white and your in the riot zone. We have seen videos of black thugs pointing out and targeting cars driven by white people. Just think how bad you will stand out in your 4x4 pick up with NRA stickers on it. If you are lucky you might survive.
So you see the only way out is by foot so you park your vehicle, sling your body armor and 3 day pack onto your back. You grab your rifle and start walking.
REALLY.
How long do you think you will survive?
Or.
Your attacked by the mob and you open up on them out goes 30 rounds from your rifle and you do your fastest speed load.
Do you think you will not be charged and your life ruined?
Let me offer a different way out of a bad situation.
You can not shoot your way out of a riot, this is the USA in 2016. You will never get away with it no matter how justified it might be to a lot of us.
But you find yourself at ground zero of a bad situation starting to get worse.
The truth is that within just a few miles, life in still normal and will stay normal even though in the riot zone all hell is breaking loose.
Problem number one ; you stick out, your white and the rioters are black. Just looking at you screams TARGET to the rioters.
Solution; carry with you a full blown burka full face covered only eye holes. Carry black grease paint for around your eyes and any exposed skin. Now you are invisible to the mob and you will be able to walk your way out of the riot zone.
Equipment needed; pistol with spare mags, just in case. I am thinking Glock with a bunch of happy sticks. These are carried under the burka on your belt in your pockets. Some energy bars and water carried in a cloth shopping bag. Black non tactical gloves to cover your hands.
Stay off your cell phone know how to walk your way out of the riot zone until you get where it is well and truly safe. Then you call Uber for a ride home.
I carried a burka all over Muslim Africa and tried it out several times I learned to walk as a muslim women did in those countries and I walked through the worse places in the cities and nobody looked at me twice.
It may not look as macho as my tricked out AR in my hands and my hard vest on my body with a 40 pound pack that has enough supplies for a company of Rangers to live of for a week. But it will get you home.
17 pages and most of the advice given will get you in trouble one way or an other.
Starting in 1980 or 81, was when I infiltrated into my first Palestinian riot, years before the intifada. We were engaging in study of the dynamics of the riot, so that we could come up with a game plan to deal with them should they ever become wide spread. Our advice was not followed but such is life.
Since this point in my life I have been inside many mobs and riots as part of my work.
I then retired from government service and entered into the business world where as luck would have it I have spent a lot of time in Africa and now latin America.
I read of all the stuff some guys carry, and I wonder what they are planning to do if their truck breaks down or the only way out of the riot zone is by foot.
Scenario; Black Americans are rioting, your white and your in the riot zone. We have seen videos of black thugs pointing out and targeting cars driven by white people. Just think how bad you will stand out in your 4x4 pick up with NRA stickers on it. If you are lucky you might survive.
So you see the only way out is by foot so you park your vehicle, sling your body armor and 3 day pack onto your back. You grab your rifle and start walking.
REALLY.
How long do you think you will survive?
Or.
Your attacked by the mob and you open up on them out goes 30 rounds from your rifle and you do your fastest speed load.
Do you think you will not be charged and your life ruined?
Let me offer a different way out of a bad situation.
You can not shoot your way out of a riot, this is the USA in 2016. You will never get away with it no matter how justified it might be to a lot of us.
But you find yourself at ground zero of a bad situation starting to get worse.
The truth is that within just a few miles, life in still normal and will stay normal even though in the riot zone all hell is breaking loose.
Problem number one ; you stick out, your white and the rioters are black. Just looking at you screams TARGET to the rioters.
Solution; carry with you a full blown burka full face covered only eye holes. Carry black grease paint for around your eyes and any exposed skin. Now you are invisible to the mob and you will be able to walk your way out of the riot zone.
Equipment needed; pistol with spare mags, just in case. I am thinking Glock with a bunch of happy sticks. These are carried under the burka on your belt in your pockets. Some energy bars and water carried in a cloth shopping bag. Black non tactical gloves to cover your hands.
Stay off your cell phone know how to walk your way out of the riot zone until you get where it is well and truly safe. Then you call Uber for a ride home.
I carried a burka all over Muslim Africa and tried it out several times I learned to walk as a muslim women did in those countries and I walked through the worse places in the cities and nobody looked at me twice.
It may not look as macho as my tricked out AR in my hands and my hard vest on my body with a 40 pound pack that has enough supplies for a company of Rangers to live of for a week. But it will get you home.
If you emerged from a vehicle in the manner you described I think the greatest threat would be from LE, not the rioters.
As far as charges faced if you had to harm a large quantity of people to defend yourself I would rather live and potentially fight charges than leave myself at the mercy of a mob.
In a situation like this I already said my ass would be "buggin in" for all of these reasons and more. If the mob came to me I would do what I had to do for my family's survival and worry about the legal consequences later.
MountainRaven
08-22-16, 12:02
I don't think a burka is going to get you as far in an American city as in West Africa or Palestine.
I'm also not clear on how covering yourself in a burka will help you if you're 6'6", blond-haired, and blue-eyed, even if you do try to go "black face" on exposed skin and something as unusual as a burka somehow manages to draw less attention rather than more.
While I agree that blending in and bugging out are probably better options than turning your pickup into the Alamo and being shot, beaten to death, lit on fire, and then dragged around the city, I don't see a way for a white guy to readily blend in with a black crowd in a black area - the "dress code" during 'riot season' is going to make it very difficult to hide the color of your skin. A couple bottles of clear alcohol with rags attached to the top, a black bandanna, black BDUs, black combat boots, and a black beret accompanied by shouts of, "Black power!" and, "Where them piggies at!?" while you have two fistfuls of 'Molotov' might at least buy you a couple of seconds, maybe even minutes, I don't think that would last long, either. (And if successful, it would probably get the rioters to direct you toward the object of their ire and therefore further into the riot, rather than see them pass you over and let you work your way to the edges and out of the riot.)
Averageman
08-22-16, 12:58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEURNrGxKQw
I would end up doing a Gene Wilder and screwing it all up.
The ensuing hilarity would only be surpassed by the laughter while I was being beaten to a pulp.
Look, disguises and heavy artillery......nah. Three things:
1) Avoid
2) If #1 doesn't work, defend yourself however necessary
3) If #2 is in play, your vehicle is a several thousand pound weapon; a Glock with reload is a good next choice
I have NO legal obligation whatsoever, nor a moral one, to take a beating (perhaps fatal) from a gang of scum. It ain't happening unless I'm caught off-guard for some unforeseen reason. The whole "judged by twelve or carried by six" spiel. I'll take my chances in court if necessary but I'll be ALIVE, not dead or brain-damaged.
BTW, if it comes to court an inner-city jury of scum-sympathizing racists ain't a jury of my peers. Change of venue folks.
Averageman
08-22-16, 13:39
Look, disguises and heavy artillery......nah. Three things:
1) Avoid
2) If #1 doesn't work, defend yourself however necessary
3) If #2 is in play, your vehicle is a several thousand pound weapon; a Glock with reload is a good next choice
I have NO legal obligation whatsoever, nor a moral one, to take a beating (perhaps fatal) from a gang of scum. It ain't happening unless I'm caught off-guard for some unforeseen reason. The whole "judged by twelve or carried by six" spiel. I'll take my chances in court if necessary but I'll be ALIVE, not dead or brain-damaged.
BTW, if it comes to court an inner-city jury of scum-sympathizing racists ain't a jury of my peers. Change of venue folks.
There is a lot of truth in that. Thanks, that was appreciated.
Look, disguises and heavy artillery......nah. Three things:
1) Avoid
.
Finally a couple of more sensible suggestions by Yoni and ABNAK.
Avoid - this is probably the best way and fairly easy to follow everyday. We know that a riot doesn't break out spontaneously or randomly. There has to be a source or cause. Pay attention to the situation around the nation then if there is something to be concerned about (killing, whether right or wrong, by police on a minority) then pay closer attention to your city.
Know the area of the city that are more likely to have riots or some kind of uprising. There are places in my metro area that I don't go, as I don't belong, like others said, how one looks can stick out very easily in a crowd.
Listen to the radio. I know people like to be entertained by their favorite tunes on the CD, Ipod, etc. There are times to listen to tunes (like on the interstates or rural country roads) but driving in metro area, it's best to monitor traffic regularly. You don't have to have a riot to get stuck. Accidents happen regularly in a big metro area, monitoring the traffic report keeps you out of 15 minutes or more of sitting still waiting for the cops to open a lane around a wreck. Traffic or news radio isn't entertaining but sometimes it's a necessity.
Have a GPS in the car or know how to use your phone GPS to get around.
Don't get me wrong, I'm armed and carry almost 100 rounds of reloads, first aids, water and snacks with me daily as I get around the city. If I have to, the car is my second weapon (brain is first) and my handguns are third.
A sneaky bag and an alleyway
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Don't get me wrong, I'm armed and carry almost 100 rounds of reloads, first aids, water and snacks with me daily as I get around the city. If I have to, the car is my second weapon (brain is first) and my handguns are third.
Pretty much the crux of it. Some people overthink stuff. Just avoid trouble first and foremost and be prepared to defend yourself if caught up in said trouble.
My Krav instructor likes to remind everyone that the best fight is the one you don't get into!
I will add that a handgun "upgrade" can be done if enough fore-warning is present.
Example: I live in the sticks but work in the city. Since it's medical I just about have to be there (just like in shitty weather, medical folks HAVE to show up while the bulk of society down here takes a "snow day"). In my wife's van she has a Glock 43. In my truck it's a Glock 19. In our work car it's a Kahr P-40. Now if I knew there was trouble brewing or breaking out and it was a work day I'd probably rotate my Glock 19 with a spare 30rd mag into whatever vehicle I drove that day. Sure, you might have to dance with what brung ya but I'm talking if you knew in advance and had to pass near the general area of unrest. If I need more than a Glock 19 and the spare 30rd'er I've probably hopelessly screwed myself!
Averageman
08-22-16, 15:19
I will add that a handgun "upgrade" can be done if enough fore-warning is present.
Example: I live in the sticks but work in the city. Since it's medical I just about have to be there (just like in shitty weather, medical folks HAVE to show up while the bulk of society down here takes a "snow day"). In my wife's van she has a Glock 43. In my truck it's a Glock 19. In our work car it's a Kahr P-40. Now if I knew there was trouble brewing or breaking out and it was a work day I'd probably rotate my Glock 19 with a spare 30rd mag into whatever vehicle I drove that day. Sure, you might have to dance with what brung ya but I'm talking if you knew in advance and had to pass near the general area of unrest. If I need more than a Glock 19 and the spare 30rd'er I've probably hopelessly screwed myself!
If I felt obligated to be there one of the other options I might consider is going in earlier or leaving later and plan a secondary route based upon current traffic patterns. It might be really good to have several extra "Bypass" routes in your play book.
If I was packing extra ammo for a pistol, if practical I might choose a long gun instead. I might have an AR Pistol and break it down to fit in my gym bag when I arrived.
I'm not that "Obligated" no body is going to die if I don't show up, so I would take that "Snow/Sick/IDGAF Day" rather than face what might be an event I don't want to participate in.
Most of all stay informed and avoid any potential hazards.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-22-16, 15:33
17 pages and most of the advice given will get you in trouble one way or an other.
Starting in 1980 or 81, was when I infiltrated into my first Palestinian riot, years before the intifada. We were engaging in study of the dynamics of the riot, so that we could come up with a game plan to deal with them should they ever become wide spread. Our advice was not followed but such is life.
Since this point in my life I have been inside many mobs and riots as part of my work.
I then retired from government service and entered into the business world where as luck would have it I have spent a lot of time in Africa and now latin America.
I read of all the stuff some guys carry, and I wonder what they are planning to do if their truck breaks down or the only way out of the riot zone is by foot.
Scenario; Black Americans are rioting, your white and your in the riot zone. We have seen videos of black thugs pointing out and targeting cars driven by white people. Just think how bad you will stand out in your 4x4 pick up with NRA stickers on it. If you are lucky you might survive.
So you see the only way out is by foot so you park your vehicle, sling your body armor and 3 day pack onto your back. You grab your rifle and start walking.
REALLY.
How long do you think you will survive?
Or.
Your attacked by the mob and you open up on them out goes 30 rounds from your rifle and you do your fastest speed load.
Do you think you will not be charged and your life ruined?
Let me offer a different way out of a bad situation.
You can not shoot your way out of a riot, this is the USA in 2016. You will never get away with it no matter how justified it might be to a lot of us.
But you find yourself at ground zero of a bad situation starting to get worse.
The truth is that within just a few miles, life in still normal and will stay normal even though in the riot zone all hell is breaking loose.
Problem number one ; you stick out, your white and the rioters are black. Just looking at you screams TARGET to the rioters.
Solution; carry with you a full blown burka full face covered only eye holes. Carry black grease paint for around your eyes and any exposed skin. Now you are invisible to the mob and you will be able to walk your way out of the riot zone.
Equipment needed; pistol with spare mags, just in case. I am thinking Glock with a bunch of happy sticks. These are carried under the burka on your belt in your pockets. Some energy bars and water carried in a cloth shopping bag. Black non tactical gloves to cover your hands.
Stay off your cell phone know how to walk your way out of the riot zone until you get where it is well and truly safe. Then you call Uber for a ride home.
I carried a burka all over Muslim Africa and tried it out several times I learned to walk as a muslim women did in those countries and I walked through the worse places in the cities and nobody looked at me twice.
It may not look as macho as my tricked out AR in my hands and my hard vest on my body with a 40 pound pack that has enough supplies for a company of Rangers to live of for a week. But it will get you home.
How about all of the above underneath a burka?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The burka style has not caught on yet in my area. YET.
This is still the "in" look :)
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/20160808_093605.jpeg
After some prayer, meditation, and listening to some Enya.....
This thread is cray cray. Burqas? Facepaint? AM radio?!
You know I spend about 99% of my time around black folks and even on my personal time.
Hithertofore, no one has yet to say yea, nay, or boo to me
One thing I do notice is that at times white folks tend to "modify" their language and behavior around blacks and don't seem to realize that black people do pick up on it.
If you start talking like the dumb white cop from Sanford and Son then, yeah you might catch some flak.
Whatever happens, happens. Nobody mess with me and I don't mess with nobody. If shit flares up, then oh well.
I doubt I'll have any problems. Not because I am Billy Badass but, I just don't see anybody giving me shit.
I've walked downtown ATL, road trains at late o'clock, and worked and lived in predominately black areas.
No problems. No Fs given or received.
MountainRaven
08-22-16, 16:22
I don't think the burka is a reasonable solution unless you're in or near Dearborn.
I would differ with you go look around the black community you will see women in burkas.
Now the day farmers in South Dakota riot, your correct a burka will not do you much good.
sevenhelmet
08-22-16, 16:42
After some prayer, meditation, and listening to some Enya.....
<clipped for brevity>
No problems. No Fs given or received.
Firefly, I agree with you that this thread has gotten a little carried away, but I have two questions:
1.) Where Fs are not being given or received, were those people actively rioting?
2.) Would a white face be treated differently in those crowds (assuming whitey wasn't being a jackass)? No offense intended anywhere here, I just want to understand where you're coming from. My understanding of this thread so far was of the potential someone being caught in a riot situation where they were the wrong color (or some other physical trait), and being singled out because of it.
Also, as a side point, can you elaborate on how white folks change their behavior? I know it happens, but I'm curious about your observations. Happy to take this to PM if it's too much of a threadjack. Thanks.
1.) Rioting? No. Protesting after a white cop on black dude shoot? Yes. I was in my early 20s and had a helmet, gas mask, and slung SMG. Nobody could tell if I was white or black(I am neither). All I did was stand there all day. I heard lots of "kill whitey" and "cracka mufukas". But nobody got froggy and nobody (in my area) got arrested. Jesse Jackson and Farrakhan got to cuss out white folks on a podium, they blasted some spirituals, sang we shall overcome, and went home. I got to drink free cokes and a free subway sandwich. Good day had by all. They just wanted to cuss and be assholes for 8 hours and then go home. Woopeedoo. If I were just some guy in the world....meh, they wouldn't have trifled with me. The only ones I saw getting chumped out and made to cry were the white hippie college kids wearing African flag and FUBU sweats trying to join in. Ever see Malcolm X where the blonde white girl wants to help and Denzel keeps on walking? Like that.
2) Partially answered in 1. But people "rioting" are going to be more interested in things to steal. They won't see you unless you are trying to "fit in" like Eminem or the white boy from that scene in Gran Torino.
A bunch of black folks pissed over the police killing someone is nothing new at all. It just gets more news coverage. Red Dog murdered a 92 year old black great grandmother and.....no riots.
POS gets zapped and CNN and everybody turns nothing into something.
I won't sit here and say a white person wouldn't be singled out by a pack of wannabes. What I AM saying is that getting away from it isn't as involved as dipping your face in shoe polish or wearing a mandress and trying to Snake Plissken your way out of a shit area.
If you are Southwest Asian or Middle Eastern, well....you'll have a hard time.
Because it is unspoken, but blacks know whites have some kind of access to a gun unless they look like some goofy college boy bitch or a hippie.
I do notice that whites seem apprehensive in a black crowd. Stutter, pussyfoot with words, try to talk to them like they are Mrs. Johnson's 3rd grade class. It seems phony. It seems fraudulent. Like you're being bougie.
I talk to everyone pretty much the same. "Hey, 'sup?" "Uh-huh" "Yep" "A'ight then "Stay breezy", "Seeya" and call anyone I don't know ma'am or sir until I learn their name if they are an adult. If it is a kid I say "Young man" or "Young Lady"
It isn't totally that you are white, it is just nobody likes being talked down to.
Go watch Steven Seagals Lawman show. He'd get around black folks and try to sound all Motown like he was Super Spade.
That's offensive. Imagine if some dude from England came up and started making fun of how YOU talked or talked to you like you had no education. It would piss you off.
sevenhelmet
08-22-16, 18:08
Firefly, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
I second Firefly!
I have spent a lot of time working in famously crime ridden lower income neighborhoods and always done well talking to people the same as I talk to anyone. Actually with less cursing surprisingly maybe due to my official duties :-)
I think it's a respect thing and I believe people respond well to genuine talk. Or at least they aren't inclined to violence just because of my speech pattern!
Dennis.
On the flip side of this thread, some BLM dudes are thinking up a plan to separate a 6' 6" white guy disguising as a dark skinned woman wearing burka from his 4x4 Ford Raptor and his "go" bag.
:)
I can't speak for Dearborn, but being a woman walking out in public, regardless of how you are dressed, during any sort of riot is not a wise decision. Not in most of America. When the inner city idiots realize its a free-for-all, and the 5-0 is not going to do their job that day, it really does become a free-for-all. I'd rather look like a white dude on a mission to get the hell out of Dodge than a woman in any type of clothing.
I have no knowledge of how it works in any other country, but there is no crowd of rioters anywhere in America that is going to take 30 rounds from an AR and keep on comin' to try to get whitey during the 0.9 second speed reload. Seeing what I've seen, I'm not buying that one.
I agree with other posters about the sensible solution being to get/stay home and avoid any sort of trouble or drawing attention to yourself. We kept the curtains closed and the lights off at night.
I'm going with:
Avoid the area, drive out.
Can't drive? Walk out. (cardio) Call a ride.
Don't want to be seen? Hide if you can. Move out later. Call a ride.
Have a decent sized pistol concealed with holster (more than a revolver or pocket pistol) and have several extra magazines. (50-100 rnds worth)
As was said, the riot area won't cover much area, you probably won't have to go very far.
Outlander Systems
08-23-16, 05:56
They were totally coming from This That and the Other.
The burka style has not caught on yet in my area. YET.
This is still the "in" look :)
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/20160808_093605.jpeg
ClearedHot
08-23-16, 07:26
17 pages and most of the advice given will get you in trouble one way or an other.
Starting in 1980 or 81, was when I infiltrated into my first Palestinian riot, years before the intifada. We were engaging in study of the dynamics of the riot, so that we could come up with a game plan to deal with them should they ever become wide spread. Our advice was not followed but such is life.
Since this point in my life I have been inside many mobs and riots as part of my work.
I then retired from government service and entered into the business world where as luck would have it I have spent a lot of time in Africa and now latin America.
I read of all the stuff some guys carry, and I wonder what they are planning to do if their truck breaks down or the only way out of the riot zone is by foot.
Scenario; Black Americans are rioting, your white and your in the riot zone. We have seen videos of black thugs pointing out and targeting cars driven by white people. Just think how bad you will stand out in your 4x4 pick up with NRA stickers on it. If you are lucky you might survive.
So you see the only way out is by foot so you park your vehicle, sling your body armor and 3 day pack onto your back. You grab your rifle and start walking.
REALLY.
How long do you think you will survive?
Or.
Your attacked by the mob and you open up on them out goes 30 rounds from your rifle and you do your fastest speed load.
Do you think you will not be charged and your life ruined?
Let me offer a different way out of a bad situation.
You can not shoot your way out of a riot, this is the USA in 2016. You will never get away with it no matter how justified it might be to a lot of us.
But you find yourself at ground zero of a bad situation starting to get worse.
The truth is that within just a few miles, life in still normal and will stay normal even though in the riot zone all hell is breaking loose.
Problem number one ; you stick out, your white and the rioters are black. Just looking at you screams TARGET to the rioters.
Solution; carry with you a full blown burka full face covered only eye holes. Carry black grease paint for around your eyes and any exposed skin. Now you are invisible to the mob and you will be able to walk your way out of the riot zone.
Equipment needed; pistol with spare mags, just in case. I am thinking Glock with a bunch of happy sticks. These are carried under the burka on your belt in your pockets. Some energy bars and water carried in a cloth shopping bag. Black non tactical gloves to cover your hands.
Stay off your cell phone know how to walk your way out of the riot zone until you get where it is well and truly safe. Then you call Uber for a ride home.
I carried a burka all over Muslim Africa and tried it out several times I learned to walk as a muslim women did in those countries and I walked through the worse places in the cities and nobody looked at me twice.
It may not look as macho as my tricked out AR in my hands and my hard vest on my body with a 40 pound pack that has enough supplies for a company of Rangers to live of for a week. But it will get you home.
This HAS to be a troll post. A guy who's M4C name is Yoni (which means vagina in Sanskrit) suggests dressing up and acting like a Muslim woman/blackface as a viable means to escape a race riot scenario.
I can't even begin to tell you how badly that would end...
This HAS to be a troll post. A guy who's M4C name is Yoni (which means vagina in Sanskrit) suggests dressing up and acting like a Muslim woman/blackface as a viable means to escape a race riot scenario.
I can't even begin to tell you how badly that would end...
He is an Israeli, he has been around a few forums.
I may not agree with all the things he has said, including to me.
he spent years protecting israel, the methods are options
He is no troll.
He is an orthodox jew
Im sure you spoke in ignorance its not vagina
Here try a baby names web site instead of Wikipedia.
"What does Yoni mean?
The name Yoni is of Hebrew origin.
The meaning of Yoni is "G-d has given, G-d gives".
Yoni is generally used as a boy's name.
It consists of 4 letters and 2 syllables and is pronounced Yo-ni."
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Curious... How many offering advice here have been in a CONUS or OCONUS angry protest/riot situation? Baltimore, Ferguson, "Amerika raus aus" mobs. Not hippy college students smoking weed and sitting in or anti-GLCM euros. Real angry people looking for trouble.
Curious... How many offering advice here have been in a CONUS or OCONUS angry protest/riot situation? Baltimore, Ferguson, "Amerika raus aus" mobs. Not hippy college students smoking weed and sitting in or anti-GLCM euros. Real angry people looking for trouble.
Speaking solely for myself, I'd like to think in my situation, crises was averted with a positive show of force while still allowing people to voice their displeasure. But I have had to, with a good amount of back up, shut down out of control events/house parties where people got pepperballed and were shooting guns in the air or chucking beer bottles with just waves of humanity numbering in the hundreds. A few times having to clear such an area to get to a homicide victim. It was not fun and it was like paper dolls having to cuff a bunch of people together and running out of zipties and cuffs and cars. At that point it was just get people gone while triaging arrests to just the worst offenders.
But those weren't protests or a riots, just several hundred people showing their ass.
FWIW
YMMV
Not paid enough for this BS
Curious... How many offering advice here have been in a CONUS or OCONUS angry protest/riot situation? Baltimore, Ferguson, "Amerika raus aus" mobs. Not hippy college students smoking weed and sitting in or anti-GLCM euros. Real angry people looking for trouble.
I have. {Raises hand…}
I'm not sure I offered advice though. Just sharing what I learned and saw.
Curious... How many offering advice here have been in a CONUS or OCONUS angry protest/riot situation? Baltimore, Ferguson, "Amerika raus aus" mobs. Not hippy college students smoking weed and sitting in or anti-GLCM euros. Real angry people looking for trouble.
Foreign country with hordes of angry muslims because we killed xxxx or destroyed xxxx and/or are searching xxxxx and are throwing rocks, yes.
Stateside no.
Averageman
08-23-16, 16:18
Curious... How many offering advice here have been in a CONUS or OCONUS angry protest/riot situation? Baltimore, Ferguson, "Amerika raus aus" mobs. Not hippy college students smoking weed and sitting in or anti-GLCM euros. Real angry people looking for trouble.
Only a couple of occasions, but I wasn't a direct participant for the receiving team.
I lived in Germany for the entire 80's, we had a lot of demonstrations and a few rock throwing events. I worked with the BGS at the time and because the protesters were Local Nationals, we were strictly back-up and these guys didn't need any back-up. I've lived and worked in the M.E. as a Civilian and spent a lot of time procuring small parts and service on the local economy.
I don't know if that qualifies me or not, but I learned something while doing all of that. Educate yourself to your environment, Stay informed, Don't look like a target and move in and out with a purpose and don't linger.
A couple of near misses in that time, but most of that was due to being with someone who didn't follow the above rules and got caught in a bind.
I have another question. You don't have to answer and I understand why some wont but lets say there is heavy weather brewing in your city and you were on the road trying to get home or get out late at night and someone tried to make a move on you and you had to get it on. Would you follow protocol and make the call or just pick up and keep moving down the road and let that be that? A situation that you knew wouldn't end well if you didn't act first. Perhaps someone trying to ram you with there car, or pull you out of your car or possibly corner you.
I have another question. You don't have to answer and I understand why some wont but lets say there is heavy weather brewing in your city and you were on the road trying to get home or get out late at night and someone tried to make a move on you and you had to get it on. Would you follow protocol and make the call or just pick up and keep moving down the road and let that be that? A situation that you knew wouldn't end well if you didn't act first. Perhaps someone trying to ram you with there car, or pull you out of your car or possibly corner you.
I would ask a lawyer. But I think it would be reasonable to get to safe area and notify the police. If you are making assumptions and do something you are not justified in doing, it will not end well for your legally.
I had an instructor say when I was but a young grasshopper "We can what if all day. But at a certain point you're going to have to make decisions and live or die with them"
If you are not 100% then you need more well vetted training and legal advice. Like real legal advice, not some dude with an ambulance chaser commercial. And that advice is just that, advice. Ultimately it comes down to what a Grand Jury has to say. If they would not have reacted the same way and agree you broke a law then you get indicted.
Because no matter who you shoot they always got an aunt, uncle, parents, kids, whomever else.
If you really feel like you may have to exfil your area, you should plot viable escape routes today and already have a 'Site B'.
Linebacker
08-23-16, 16:57
I have another question. You don't have to answer and I understand why some wont but lets say there is heavy weather brewing in your city and you were on the road trying to get home or get out late at night and someone tried to make a move on you and you had to get it on. Would you follow protocol and make the call or just pick up and keep moving down the road and let that be that? A situation that you knew wouldn't end well if you didn't act first. Perhaps someone trying to ram you with there car, or pull you out of your car or possibly corner you.
The chance of not being oserved by witnesses or cameras in most areas is not too good. Based upon that reality, I personally would place a call to 911 very quickly. Having been in law enforcment a few decades ago, ye who tells the story first has a good advantage.
The chance of not being oserved by witnesses or cameras in most areas is not too good. Based upon that reality, I personally would place a call to 911 very quickly. Having been in law enforcment a few decades ago, ye who tells the story first has a good advantage.
Agreed
If you run someone over the plates may be picked up and if you shoot someone your prints are likley on the brass or bullet
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Averageman
08-23-16, 18:34
Honestly, I've been given this same advice more than once; "Report in and move to a safe position/rally point", or "If we're driving and a little kid runs out in the street, I don't want you to hit him, but I don't want you to stop either." So if I were CONUS, I would assume I'm on someone's or multiple someone's camera's and not risk the "What if" and try to wing it on home and park the damaged truck in the garage, which might only make you look really, really bad.
If you are operating under the "Avoid all direct contact/conflict" mindset and you get caught in an incident anyway, you may be in for a hell of an event if you don't report it and then follow up with some legal advice immediately. So I would 911 and then speed dial my Attorney to meet me at the P.D. and turn myself in. The only thing I can think of that would be worse is to get out and take a beating at the hands of whomever might assume I did that with malice in my heart.
Have you ever gone on YouTube and noticed how many drivers in Russia have a Go-Pro or similar camera going every time they drive their cars? There is a reason for that and I'm not saying that is a bad idea as back-up to your story.
Honestly, I think the very best thing you can do is to stay situationally aware and bow out before the drama gets nasty. I'am not feeling well and I need to go home" means you go home at worst with no pay, the alternatives to bowing out early and seeking safety are increasingly more expensive and dangerous. to not only you, but to your employer if you're on the job.
This HAS to be a troll post. A guy who's M4C name is Yoni (which means vagina in Sanskrit) suggests dressing up and acting like a Muslim woman/blackface as a viable means to escape a race riot scenario.
I can't even begin to tell you how badly that would end...
No. Yoni is a BTDT. Good guy. Very high probability he has donned a burka multiple times while UC on the West Bank. Some of our(USA) BTDT's have donned a burka when needed. Viable option; situationally dependent.
Outlander Systems
08-23-16, 19:08
This dude obviously knew when to deploy his "truck gun":
http://youtu.be/cSA6KBEUCIs
Averageman
08-23-16, 19:18
Your immediate reaction drill and someone else's should be different.
If that Mope had to go back to the car, he should have had a pistol in his waist band.
All he did by doing what he did was put others in danger.
Outlander Systems
08-23-16, 19:22
Gotta love Atlanta, bro!
Homie with the Lallaloopsy haircut definitely brought plenty of firepower.
;)
Which part of South Fulton? :p
You know if it weren't for the pedestrian NFA laws; a stock on that AK pistol would have ensured homeboy who came up on goldilocks would have had a short criminal career.
I am not an AK guy but a Krinkov would make a nice car gun if I was taking boo to the club.
Outlander Systems
08-23-16, 19:31
Exactly. When Raggedy Ann broke out the AK dude went flying backwards.
Apparently, they've since made up, and will be offering advanced level courses on urban prone shooting.
Boo took one to the shoulder. That windshield glass can be a bitch!
You know they'll be telling the grandkids about their special night together at Texaco.
I can hear her bitching about her shirt and dropping N and F bombs.
T'was a magical night. I'm a sucker for youthful romance. Y'know?
Linebacker
08-23-16, 19:46
This dude obviously knew when to deploy his "truck gun":
Failed robbery, eh? Apparently, his girl caught some shrapnel.
I have another question. You don't have to answer and I understand why some wont but lets say there is heavy weather brewing in your city and you were on the road trying to get home or get out late at night and someone tried to make a move on you and you had to get it on. Would you follow protocol and make the call or just pick up and keep moving down the road and let that be that? A situation that you knew wouldn't end well if you didn't act first. Perhaps someone trying to ram you with there car, or pull you out of your car or possibly corner you.
That question depends on the state your in.
If they point a gun at you have a bunch of dudes there, say imma kill you, and you waste the guy. Good shoot, in most cases.
If Steve urkel says, imma gonna get my gat, and killz you, it back over there in my shitty little car. He walks away, your there with your posse, and you drill him in the back, most likely bad shoot.
I just took a class put on by a lawyer for idaho enhanced permit. They talked about this subject alot.
TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 40
HOMICIDE
18-4009. JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE BY ANY PERSON. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in either of the following cases:
1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
2. When committed in defense of habitation, property or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or,
3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress or servant of such person, when there is REASONABLE ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished; but such person, or the person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant or engaged in mortal combat, must really and in good faith have endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was committed; or,
4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.
Utah and Florida do not have a duty to retreat.
I caps locked the word reasonable in the law. That word, resonable, is the key. If you get put on a jury for a homicide case, you get to ask those four things in the law, yes or no.
Again, the real answer is it really depends on where you live. Try not to commit that 922 violation as you drive by the school.
My thought, is I would prefer to be alive than deaded....Better to be judged than carried right? But that's me. Better yet, avoid those situations. Can't be in gun fight if you don't get in one. Sounds dumb, I know.
Katrina was a very solid lesson on when everything goes to shit. I think everyone can agree the pause button was hit on many things legal for several days.
Wow, that wild shoot out just happened a few days ago. WSB said the gas station is on Lee St., that is not far from the famous Morehouse University.
ClearedHot
08-23-16, 22:30
No. Yoni is a BTDT. Good guy. Very high probability he has donned a burka multiple times while UC on the West Bank. Some of our(USA) BTDT's have donned a burka when needed. Viable option; situationally dependent.
Solid copy. I may have jumped the gun on my assessment of his post. However, in my AOR (urban city with a predominately black population) if you were caught walking around with grease paint on your face, doing your best impression of a 1930's blackface, it would be a bad day for you. Even worse if you decided to do that while dressed as a woman. Won't matter if there's a riot going on or if it's just another Saturday night in the hood; Dem boyz would pull them yoppas out on you, and spray ya shit up. Quick, fast and in a hurry.
Curious... How many offering advice here have been in a CONUS or OCONUS angry protest/riot situation? Baltimore, Ferguson, "Amerika raus aus" mobs. Not hippy college students smoking weed and sitting in or anti-GLCM euros. Real angry people looking for trouble.
LA Riots for me
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
I have another question. You don't have to answer and I understand why some wont but lets say there is heavy weather brewing in your city and you were on the road trying to get home or get out late at night and someone tried to make a move on you and you had to get it on. Would you follow protocol and make the call or just pick up and keep moving down the road and let that be that? A situation that you knew wouldn't end well if you didn't act first. Perhaps someone trying to ram you with there car, or pull you out of your car or possibly corner you.
As others have said, call it in.
If you are involved in an incident, leave the area, and DON'T report it, it will look like flight. And the presumption of many juries is flight=guilt (Mas Ayoob has tons of articles on the subject).
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
Gotta love Atlanta, bro!
Homie with the Lallaloopsy haircut definitely brought plenty of firepower.
;)
That's effing funny! (Damn it! Beer stings when it comes out of your nose)
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
When bullets start flying, and rioters fall to the ground. A crowd will lose it's momentum and disappear. -Marcus Tullius Cicero- 69 BC
My name is Hebrew not any other language. The meaning of my name in Hebrew has been given.
I put out an idea that worked for us in Israel, which I took with me to Africa and it helped me get through a civil war in Africa.
You can take the idea if it works in your area, I know in a number of cities in the USA black muslim women are wearing burkas. So if it fits your area use it, if not don't.
Straight Shooter
08-24-16, 07:16
When bullets start flying, and rioters fall to the ground. A crowd will lose it's momentum and disappear. -Marcus Tullius Cicero- 69 BC
Truth. Look at any youtube video..when the first shot is fired, they take off like somebody stuck em in the ass with a needle, and they don't look back, neither. Ive also seen this in person. They see two, three of the homeboys' heads go misty red- they'll be a county over in no time.
The question is not if you shoot will the crowd run away, for sure they will especially if they see their buddies dropping.
The question is in this day and age in the USA, would you survive the legal system?
Which is why I favor going grey and trying to get away without having to shoot.
Because surviving the riot only to go to prison, is a small victory at best.
The question is not if you shoot will the crowd run away, for sure they will especially if they see their buddies dropping.
The question is in this day and age in the USA, would you survive the legal system?
Which is why I favor going grey and trying to get away without having to shoot.
Because surviving the riot only to go to prison, is a small victory at best.
I just sat in on a jury last week... Yoni is correct. After seeing how that went down.....F that.... Context doesn't mean shit. Regardless the charge.
Did you meet the strict definition of the law in your charge. That's it. Is there's some fuzzines and grey area in what happened or what your allegedly did.....your are ****ed ****ed ****ed.....
Grey man is best man. Unless you can solidly win a justifiable homicide charge, unass the area. Now! If your life or family is in peril, do whatever it takes to stay alive. But to think your going to go ok corral and be John Wayne in a riot scenario, especially if the victim is a protected class, and your not....... Good ****ing luck......
I just sat in on a jury last week... Yoni is correct. After seeing how that went down.....F that.... Context doesn't mean shit. Regardless the charge.
Did you meet the strict definition of the law in your charge. That's it. Is there's some fuzzines and grey area in what happened or what your allegedly did.....your are ****ed ****ed ****ed.....
Grey man is best man. Unless you can solidly win a justifiable homicide charge, unass the area. Now! If your life or family is in peril, do whatever it takes to stay alive. But to think your going to go ok corral and be John Wayne in a riot scenario, especially if the victim is a protected class, and your not....... Good ****ing luck......
This is going to vary vastly by state. California, New York, Massachusetts? Prepare for prison.
Where I live the law is definitely on your side if your life is in danger. Still, it is always best to avoid the situation in the first place. Only a fool would argue that.
To quote Kurt Russell's Wyatt Earp from Tombstone: "Your friends might get me in a rush but not before I turn your head into a canoe. Get it?"
That's my attitude towards this situation in America today. You leave me in peace and I will do the same to you. You seek to do violence towards me and mine well then Game ****in On. I damn sure won't be the only one bleeding.
I know all the alternate routes outta town from my place of employment along with the main ones to avoid. I just make 2 right turns in 100' and I am on a bridge outta there.
What is the consensus on the best 9mm round to use through auto glass from inside a vehicle?
To quote Kurt Russell's Wyatt Earp from Tombstone: "Your friends might get me in a rush but not before I turn your head into a canoe. Get it?"
That's my attitude towards this situation in America today. You leave me in peace and I will do the same to you. You seek to do violence towards me and mine well then Game ****in On. I damn sure won't be the only one bleeding.
I know all the alternate routes outta town from my place of employment along with the main ones to avoid. I just make 2 right turns in 100' and I am on a bridge outta there.
What is the consensus on the best 9mm round to use through auto glass from inside a vehicle?
Maybe corbon
Honestly a rifle
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To quote Kurt Russell's Wyatt Earp from Tombstone: "Your friends might get me in a rush but not before I turn your head into a canoe. Get it?"
That's my attitude towards this situation in America today. You leave me in peace and I will do the same to you. You seek to do violence towards me and mine well then Game ****in On. I damn sure won't be the only one bleeding.
I know all the alternate routes outta town from my place of employment along with the main ones to avoid. I just make 2 right turns in 100' and I am on a bridge outta there.
What is the consensus on the best 9mm round to use through auto glass from inside a vehicle?
I'm really paraphrasing here but from what I remember the "bonded" bullets were usually the best performers there as the unbonded could sometimes shed jackets. I miss the old terminal effects subforum.
To quote Kurt Russell's Wyatt Earp from Tombstone: "Your friends might get me in a rush but not before I turn your head into a canoe. Get it?"
That's my attitude towards this situation in America today. You leave me in peace and I will do the same to you. You seek to do violence towards me and mine well then Game ****in On. I damn sure won't be the only one bleeding.
I know all the alternate routes outta town from my place of employment along with the main ones to avoid. I just make 2 right turns in 100' and I am on a bridge outta there.
What is the consensus on the best 9mm round to use through auto glass from inside a vehicle?
I would suggest Lehigh Defense Xtreme penetrator. It is a monolithic projectile.
This dude obviously knew when to deploy his "truck gun":
http://youtu.be/cSA6KBEUCIs
Another. This one in my city
https://youtu.be/2qR6HJrZUtU
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Outlander Systems
08-24-16, 11:33
@Arik: Classy guys there. Life in a 6x9 would be generous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvi6Yck-kYg
I am not saying I approve of what is going on in this video (that you probably should watch at home) but....
These are Ukrainian Protestors who just got Dragunoved and AKed and are overall not happy with life. Plenty more where people are stuck under fire or trying to drag their dead and wounded away from the line. And these people actually seem like they actually care and not just looking for shoes and weaves.
I do not care to post other videos of people with their brains on pavement as that is just demoralizing for me.
But a lot of people re-thinking their lives here.
I guess I missed it but did someone advocate just opening up on a crowd of rioters willy-nilly? THAT will get you thrown in prison. Firing at select targets who are intent on, or actually in the act of, doing you harm with the goal of simply making your escape is another story altogether. A crowd gathering around a vehicle and jumping on it, attempting forced entry (i.e. breaking windows), or trying to overturn the vehicle would logically dictate slamming the gas pedal to the floor. You couldn't reasonably be expected to exit the vehicle, your only protection, into the crowd of savages. Likewise there is no "obligation to retreat" at that point no matter what state you live in, as there is no where to retreat to!
Playing "death blossom" in a riot, no matter how deserving of it they would be, is a sure ticket to the pokey. Defending yourself and/or your loved ones in a manner consistent with defense is something I would not hesitate to do. No one has an obligation to take a felonious beating. No one. Period.
cougar_guy04
08-24-16, 13:51
To quote Kurt Russell's Wyatt Earp from Tombstone: "Your friends might get me in a rush but not before I turn your head into a canoe. Get it?"
That's my attitude towards this situation in America today. You leave me in peace and I will do the same to you. You seek to do violence towards me and mine well then Game ****in On. I damn sure won't be the only one bleeding.
Kinda the same way. I really, REALLY want to avoid any and all confrontations but that changes if someone wants to visit violence or harm on myself or family.
What is the consensus on the best 9mm round to use through auto glass from inside a vehicle?
I've heard of Ranger 147gr Bonded referred to as "the bullet that doesn't give a f***" from results in FBI testing. That would probably be my choice if barriers were an issue.
One of the things that I discovered early on about windshields and jacketed bullets is that often you have two impacts on the target - the jacket and the core - bonded bullets hold together better.
A bonded bullet such as the Ranger 124 or the 147 should be good to go.
Barnes makes a couple of pretty good solid copper bullets that don't shed weight or fragment, Federal loads them in their Vital-Shok line -
Federal Premium Vital-Shok Pistol Ammunition P9HS2: Features and benefits include 100% weight retention, Barnes X technology for outstanding expansion. Ideal for deer handgun hunting the Barnes expander is non-toxic, and 100% copper bullet.
Speer 124gr Gold Dot is another popular bonded bullet.
Think of the bullet as a drill bit, rotating and traveling, both at a very high rate of speed. If the windshield is angled, the bullet tends to deviate slightly in the direction of the first portion of the bullet to strike it - up shooting out of the vehicle, down shooting into the vehicle. I've also heard it described as the bullet deviating so that the base of the projectile is perpendicular to the surface which it is penetrating.
One of the last things you want to do is light someone up from inside a vehicle with the windows rolled up. There is going to be significant, maybe permanent, threshold hearing shift, there will be minute glass fragments (the round 'drills' through the laminated glass) which can enter your eyes and lungs. During training we wear googles, not glasses, and barrier masks.
I tried to google how to wear googles without success
Averageman
08-24-16, 17:42
If you take a look at "Ours" versus "Theirs" you will notice something fairly quickly. Our Protesters don't wear any sort of protective head gear for the most part.
If both sides were playing a bit more serious there would be some head trauma PDQ.
What does this indicate to you?
If you take a look at "Ours" versus "Theirs" you will notice something fairly quickly. Our Protesters don't wear any sort of protective head gear for the most part.
If both sides were playing a bit more serious there would be some head trauma PDQ.
What does this indicate to you?
Interesting question.
I think it means overall our Law Enforcement as a whole isn't as vicious or mean as Eastern Europe.
Until I see a bunch of BLM heads splattered on the ground as walking wounded try to drag a former person away from a dead line then really nobody has a reason to bitch.
We could go back to the good old days of grand jury, court procedure, and letting a proper investigation run its course. Those were good days.
Outlander Systems
08-24-16, 18:48
@Averageman
"Ours" are looking for an opportunity to destroy.
"Theirs" were pissed that their government sold them down the river.
In short, the stakes were a lot higher than simply getting a new TV set, and some free hair extensions.
I tried to google how to wear googles without success
Duh. So now spell check lets me down - it actually took me a while to get it. Goggles, Goggles, Goggles. Nope, it was me.
Averageman
08-24-16, 19:46
I'm just saying that if you look out in to the crowd and begin to notice the rioters suddenly have helmets and shields, you're now playing in a whole new ball field.
When equipment changes so do tactics and procedures. I'm kind of concerned that we have become complacent to a certain type of riots.
I would guess the idea of taking it to the streets in a scorched earth policy if Trump wins, isn't out of the realm of possibilities.
It's not going to be TV's, Hair Extensions and Liquor Stores, it might be '68 DNC Chicago all over again.
Duh. So now spell check lets me down - it actually took me a while to get it. Goggles, Goggles, Goggles. Nope, it was me.
I didn't pick up what he was on about. Maybe I'm getting midlife Sidlexia.
Actually, good input on 9MM rounds. I like 127 +p+ as my "60%" load. What do you think about .357 Sig? I keep one as a car gun strictly for shooting outward. It doesn't seem to deviate as much. I use Gold Dots.
.45 kinda sucks though for windows, so I just got a separate caliber.
I'm just saying that if you look out in to the crowd and begin to notice the rioters suddenly have helmets and shields, you're now playing in a whole new ball field.
When equipment changes so do tactics and procedures. I'm kind of concerned that we have become complacent to a certain type of riots.
I would guess the idea of taking it to the streets in a scorched earth policy if Trump wins, isn't out of the realm of possibilities.
It's not going to be TV's, Hair Extensions and Liquor Stores, it might be '68 DNC Chicago all over again.
I dunno. That seems too much like work and involves too much risk.
Looking back on the Dallas shooting, even when it was a guy shooting cops, most people called it a night more or less or kinda egressed elsewhere and one guy surrendered his rifle not wanting any trouble.
I maintain that if this sentiment of ass-showing doesn't stop eventually a massacre will happen. Body count in the hundreds.
It is past gone too far. And the news whooping up sensationalism does not help.
People forget that the police are only human and that under enough stress or too much craziness or just the wrong thing happening....it could get messy.
Stop giving voices to people who were five minutes ago a low down piece of shit and trying to act like they are the next Rosa Parks.
I didn't pick up what he was on about. Maybe I'm getting midlife Sidlexia.
Actually, good input on 9MM rounds. I like 127 +p+ as my "60%" load. What do you think about .357 Sig? I keep one as a car gun strictly for shooting outward. It doesn't seem to deviate as much. I use Gold Dots.
.45 kinda sucks though for windows, so I just got a separate caliber.
In TN the state troopers carry the 357Sig Glock 31. Consider that they are primarily highway cops (but certainly not always) and the vehicle thing comes into play perhaps more so than a local cop. Take it for what it's worth........
The armed citizen who has to shoot for his life must remember that in many places he may face an all black jury: Mississippi where some counties are 95% black or in Jackson where the population is also mostly minority. The police, d.a., and judge will likely be black also as well as the jail staff. Having grown up in the deep South, I remember when the black man faced all white juries. Now it can be pay back time. It happens. Beware of the demographics where you live.
Knowing what I know, if I can retreat to avoid shooting somebody(and still survive), then I will. Believe me when I say that you don't want to get involved in the criminal justice system. Believe me when I say that attorney fees will ruin your family financially. If arrested, the arresting officer may be the only person who won't treat you like shit. Your attorney won't return your phone calls either.
Moose-Knuckle
08-25-16, 03:50
Another. This one in my city
https://youtu.be/2qR6HJrZUtU
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Anymore, if you don't know where a particular video was filmed one would think they were watching a video from f'n Liberia instead of a major US city.
We're circling the bowl . . .
The armed citizen who has to shoot for his life must remember that in many places he may face an all black jury: Mississippi where some counties are 95% black or in Jackson where the population is also mostly minority. The police, d.a., and judge will likely be black also as well as the jail staff. Having grown up in the deep South, I remember when the black man faced all white juries. Now it can be pay back time. It happens. Beware of the demographics where you live.
Knowing what I know, if I can retreat to avoid shooting somebody(and still survive), then I will. Believe me when I say that you don't want to get involved in the criminal justice system. Believe me when I say that attorney fees will ruin your family financially. If arrested, the arresting officer may be the only person who won't treat you like shit. Your attorney won't return your phone calls either.
I would demand a change of venue. Inner-city urchins are not a "jury of my peers".
The bolded part is the first priority. If it cannot be accomplished I'm not taking a beat-down from any group of thugs, justice system be damned.
Averageman
08-25-16, 07:55
I think what we may be seeing is demonstrations not riots. After the demonstration the looting and arson goes on, I don't think you can even be sure the same players are participating in both events.
If you want to bring attention to some injustice the best thing going might be a peaceful protest outside your local Court House. More power to you, you have that right and need to exercise it. I would suggest there are a lot of ways to take action without some looting and burning.
I'm not convinced what we are seeing is a riot, just masses of thugs doing thuggery, calling them protestors offers them legitimacy.
Once again, I would imagine a Trump win might well lead to some thuggery happening. Getting ahead of that curve might well be prudent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvi6Yck-kYg
Ah the city of my birth, what has become of you.
I would demand a change of venue. Inner-city urchins are not a "jury of my peers".
You don't have the right to a change of venue. You can move for one, but a judge has to grant it. The idea is that your attorney ensures a jury of your peers during the process of jury selection. I know it doesn't always work that way.
Averageman
08-25-16, 10:14
You don't have the right to a change of venue. You can move for one, but a judge has to grant it. The idea is that your attorney ensures a jury of your peers during the process of jury selection. I know it doesn't always work that way.
I've always shown up for Jury Duty, always dressed for the occasion and waited, waited and waited.
After speaking to several other guys, it would appear they don't want military or military retiree's on a jury. I've never even made it to the selection process. I'm guessing that the .mil is the biggest employer in this little berg and I'm not really sure how they can do that?
It's not an issue to me personally, but if I shine my Tony L's, wear a tie and show up in a jacket like I'm ready to go to Sunday meeting, why am I told to go and the "Lady" in Yoga pants and house slippers is G2G?
I've always shown up for Jury Duty, always dressed for the occasion and waited, waited and waited.
After speaking to several other guys, it would appear they don't want military or military retiree's on a jury. I've never even made it to the selection process. I'm guessing that the .mil is the biggest employer in this little berg and I'm not really sure how they can do that?
It's not an issue to me personally, but if I shine my Tony L's, wear a tie and show up in a jacket like I'm ready to go to Sunday meeting, why am I told to go and the "Lady" in Yoga pants and house slippers is G2G?
They look for people they believe to be biased in ways that benefit them or are dumb and easily influenced. Picking a jury correctly is what separates the small time ambulance chasers from the big time lawyers.
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