View Full Version : Had a Kaboom yesterday
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/8ee0a7b7ddc8efa5ff8d6948ae7898f2.jpg
Well, they say there is a first time for every thing and yesterday was my first time ever seeing a Kaboom. Luckily for me I was the one driving the rifle and not the owner of said rifle.
It was a ATI Omni Hybrid with 113 rounds according to the owner (who is a Tank Master Gunner and into numbers like that)
I was showing some recoil management stuff and fired one round, talked, changed position, fired one round, talked pulled the trigger and odd recoil, smoke, and the report was off.
I mention this because we rarely talk about what the experience was like.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/ec6e2ae42cc9bafe503e18daf6fde834.jpg
The PMAG had major damage but took the blow like a champ. The window shattered and vented the force prior to the mag being launched from the rifle.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/0142619aeb5a09aed8858fc77f73e4d0.jpg
We broke the rifle down to observe the bolt and look for barrel obstruction. I had seen the round prior print on the target so I knew the round before had performed correctly. Once we began to get the bolt retracted, the entire upper came apart due to the hybrid design
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/aa0a8d12cfe8990d26503fc1385a5f1e.jpg
There was no obstruction and the case fell out of the chamber as we seperated the BCG from the upper. IraqGuns reminded me of the old federal xm193 issues from a few years ago and the case looks exactly like those same old pics. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/547a7983ebc3510d87cd342d192c2820.jpg
The ammo was purchased at the range and was "Federal Bulk 55grain" so while I am not making that correlation directly, that's the direction I am leaning.
The lesson here is know your ammo, have a medical plan in place, wear eyepro, and be able to identify issues rapidly.
Here are some more pics
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/7df1883db0a07e1fd7cadacdcfc8f5d6.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/bbbcd85ea4bb912b7ccec38c35d0e5aa.jpg
Glad no one was seriously hurt
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Is that a full polymer upper and lower receiver setup? If so, it took it way better than I thought they would, although that kaboom is "minor" so to speak(not trying to downplay what happened) since its more like a case head separation/blow out than something resembling full on KB such as a bore obstruction.
Straight Shooter
08-20-16, 09:00
Interested in what recourse yall have to get a new rifle, and any possible legal action? Whats next, in other words.
Also- please refresh my memories on the Federal 193 probs, thanks.
Is that a full polymer upper and lower receiver setup? If so, it took it way better than I thought they would, although that kaboom is "minor" so to speak(not trying to downplay what happened) since its more like a case head separation/blow out than something resembling full on KB such as a bore obstruction.
It is and I was surprised too. And yeah it was much better than obstruction in the bore or worse a 300 Blackout mix up
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Interested in what recourse yall have to get a new rifle, and any possible legal action? Whats next, in other words.
Also- please refresh my memories on the Federal 193 probs, thanks.
We are looking at that now. In the meantime, there have been some people step up and start donating some parts to build a new one
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Can you post a pic of the headstamp please? Macro, high-res, detail, if possible. Also package and lot#.
Can you post a pic of the headstamp please? Macro, high-res, detail, if possible. Also package and lot#.
Will get that later on today
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https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=30053
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sevenhelmet
08-20-16, 09:49
Out curiosity, do you think the lower is reusable?
It may be. The bolt catch was working rough and didn't spend any time on it to see if it was damaged.
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I'm surprised the polymer held up so well. I for one will not run a polymer set up like that though.
By the parts in that rifle maybe you should send him here and tell him to get a quality AR. Granted I do not know about OMNI parts but NCStar is absolute junk that I wouldn't run on an airsoft.
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I'm surprised the polymer held up so well. I for one will not run a polymer set up like that though.
By the parts in that rifle maybe you should send him here and tell him to get a quality AR. Granted I do not know about OMNI parts but NCStar is absolute junk that I wouldn't run on an airsoft.
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Indeed. He is a Newby to the civilian rifle realm. One of the reasons we were at the range. I meant to show him how a quality rifle compares to hobby grade in nice ways. I guess I made my point though
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Indeed. He is a Newby to the civilian rifle realm. One of the reasons we were at the range. I meant to show him how a quality rifle compares to hobby grade in nice ways. I guess I made my point though
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I wonder if the barrel was out of spec or a for real ammo issue? Also I wonder how a forged upper would have handled it?
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HelloLarry
08-20-16, 11:13
Do you think the round was over pressure or the brass was just bad?
Doesn't look like a real major kaboom, the carrier isn't split and neither is the barrel extension.
Do you think the round was over pressure or the brass was just bad?
Doesn't look like a real major kaboom, the carrier isn't split and neither is the barrel extension.
No idea yet. The owner is taking it to an official gunsmith next week and is getting ahold of both ATI and Federal
Whoa, that's not good. Glad you're okay. And please share headstamp and lot nos. I have some Federal 55 gr put away.
Lol, looks like some young followers on the post
ColtSeavers
08-20-16, 15:45
Very curios of the outcome of this as well.
Glad everyone is ok.
No idea yet. The owner is taking it to an official gunsmith next week and is getting ahold of both ATI and Federal
Strongly recommend that you contact the manufacturer of the firearm and ammunition prior to any local examination. If you have a smith/armorer examine it, photograph everything, alter nothing.
Strongly recommend that you contact the manufacturer of the firearm and ammunition prior to any local examination. If you have a smith/armorer examine it, photograph everything, alter nothing.
Agreed. Will pass along.
556BlackRifle
08-20-16, 19:27
Wow. As others have already mentioned, its an over pressure problem. I'm thinking your chamber closer to .223 Rem than 5.56, Noveske match or whatever the chamber dimensions should be. I'd contact Noveske and ask them to take a look at your barrel. They'll take good care of you.
Can you post a pic of the headstamp please? Macro, high-res, detail, if possible. Also package and lot#.
Agree. I am very interested to know.
A polymer upper???? WTF.
I don't even trust a polymer lower, on a rifle - yes I know plenty of pistols use polymer frames. A polymer upper? Never ever ever.
A polymer upper???? WTF.
I don't even trust a polymer lower, on a rifle - yes I know plenty of pistols use polymer frames. A polymer upper? Never ever ever.
I won't sidetrack OP's thread, but you might want to rethink that statement. Robar has a pretty neat one.
hotrodder636
08-21-16, 08:40
Was there any catastrophic damage to the bolt/lugs? Is that a Sharps Reliabolt?
Was there any catastrophic damage to the bolt/lugs? Is that a Sharps Reliabolt?
No visible damage beyond what you can see there. Everyone there had done some sort of evidence collection and we did very little besides pack it up and prepare it for what comes next
Shepard man
08-21-16, 09:06
I saw the pic of your arm and noticed you mentioned having a medical plan in place.
The pic doesn't look too bad but are you alright?
I saw the pic of your arm and noticed you mentioned having a medical plan in place.
The pic doesn't look too bad but are you alright?
I am good. Light bruise and some peppering. But had something gone terribly wrong, the blow out kit was the only thing really there.
I am good. Light bruise and some peppering. But had something gone terribly wrong, the blow out kit was the only thing really there.
Dang... Glad you're OK. I sow someone get hurt a few years ago, and never go to the range without a basic first aid kit at minimum in the bag.
Wow. As others have already mentioned, its an over pressure problem. I'm thinking your chamber closer to .223 Rem than 5.56, Noveske match or whatever the chamber dimensions should be. I'd contact Noveske and ask them to take a look at your barrel. They'll take good care of you.
Not sure what noveske has to do with this? Pretty sure the relevant parts are ATI.
Or are you suggesting noveske examine the barrel independently?
Glad you weren't seriously hurt.
When you say bulk do you mean those red 100 round boxes?
I have some put away and am concerned.
When you say bulk do you mean those red 100 round boxes?
I have some put away and am concerned.
No idea. The range sells zip lock bags of 100 rounds they say are federal bulk
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No idea. The range sells zip lock bags of 100 rounds they say are federal bulk
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That's a little sketchy- how trustworthy is said range?
Do you have any unfired left? No signs of reloaded federal cases?
It is sketch. First time using the range ammo and have a Kaboom. Not a happy camper.
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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160829/43dcd5a8080afdb96fac9f7196fbf81f.jpg
No idea. The range sells zip lock bags of 100 rounds they say are federal bulk
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That......really is not a good sign. They could be reloads or something.
The stuff I have I got from Wal Mart.
Thanks for the update. I'd be having some strong words with whomever gave me those rounds.
ETA Which range? PM if you don't feel comfortable busting anybody out.
Glad everyone is ok. I do not believe I have any extra upper parts on hand but if you need any parts I can see what I have. I would be happy to donate them.
The range sells zip lock bags of 100 rounds they say are federal bulk ...The range sells zip lock bags of 100 rounds they say are federal bulk
very glad no one was seriously hurt!
can one point the finger at the ammo maker when it wasn't in their packing? ie: if a 300blk had been accidently included in the baggie (even if the headstamp indicates otherwise, because i've seen 300blk reloads using reformed Fed 223/556).
having personally shot tens of thousands of "fed bulk" myself over the last 40 yrs without issue, and seen as much fired by friends, its hard to even imaging how this ammo could be the culprit. would federal even be able to get that much powder in a case to cause this? i can see a handloader mistakenly using the wrong powder, but how's it possible on a robotic assembly line?
and is it at all possible that it was caused by other things, like the round before it being a squib load that was pushed out (and that you saw hit), or tolerance issues with the bolt/barrel/chamber/timing/headspace/etc, or...
not challenging the story, just trying to understand how its possible
I wish I knew. It wasn't a 300 black case and there wasn't suddenly two holes in the target. None of the normal explanations cover it. The owner of the rifle is dealing with everything so I don't know the status.
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556BlackRifle
08-29-16, 19:18
Not sure what noveske has to do with this? Pretty sure the relevant parts are ATI.
Or are you suggesting noveske examine the barrel independently?
Good catch. There was another thread associated with this post. My mistake.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160829/43dcd5a8080afdb96fac9f7196fbf81f.jpg
I've shot a lot of LC11 5.56 (along with other years LC) and have never seen that type of primer crimp. They have all had a full circular crimp. Does Lake City sometimes use the type of crimp shown in that picture? If not, that would indeed be suspicious.
...there wasn't suddenly two holes in the target....
a thought: i've never seen both rounds hit the target. my experience is that one of the rounds usuallly goes wild, not hitting the target. i have no idea if its the first or second bullet...
a thought: i've never seen both rounds hit the target. my experience is that one of the rounds usuallly goes wild, not hitting the target. i have no idea if its the first or second bullet...
I had accountability of every round fired
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I had accountability of every round fired
then i'm at a loss. i've bookmarked this thread to learn more. good luck!
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160830/94eeae52ed55a08a3e4e837dbeb794e1.jpg
That is a picture of a case that IraqGuns shared in another place. It was more violent but looks very familiar
cutter_spc
08-29-16, 20:52
I've shot a lot of LC11 5.56 (along with other years LC) and have never seen that type of primer crimp. They have all had a full circular crimp. Does Lake City sometimes use the type of crimp shown in that picture? If not, that would indeed be suspicious.
I have run into that type of crimp on LC stamped brass a time or two.
I've shot a lot of LC11 5.56 (along with other years LC) and have never seen that type of primer crimp. They have all had a full circular crimp. Does Lake City sometimes use the type of crimp shown in that picture? If not, that would indeed be suspicious.
That's normal staking of the primer versus crimping. I have hundreds of LC brass with those. It's more than likely factory ammo you shot.
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