View Full Version : Heads Up On Sons Of Liberty Gun Works - San Antonio, Texas
SheepleShepherd
08-21-16, 09:39
Hi, I just wanted to give a heads up to the fine folks who are a part of this site and the Firearms community in general. This is just my opinion from my experience. Some of you may have had good experiences and some not so much. I know the reviews for SOL Gun works over the last few weeks have not been good. Several weeks ago I placed two orders with a small company in San Antonio, Texas called, Sons Of Liberty Gun Works. Seemed like it could be a good place to do business with and it's relatively close to my home state of Oklahoma.
I bought a 10 pack of Sure feed 30 Round mags and a lower receiver. I provided my FFL information as requested and was good to go on my end. or so I thought.
Several days went by.. Like 10. No word from these people on the Magazines which should have arrived by now. Texas to Oklahoma is not that far away. Sent them an email asking the status. No reply. gave them a few more days then sent another email. nothing. Few more days, called and their mailbox was full. posted another message on Facebook and still no reply. After trying another phone call and email I then just decided it was best to contact my Bank and reverse the charges. Very poor customer service and needless to say, I have never had a business be it small or large, treat me the way this place has done. We are talking 15 Business days here.
So, just a warning. Maybe others can see this post and not make the same mistake I did. I rolled the dice on this place and crapped out. Be cautious. I will stick to the places I know. Like, Spikes tactical, Bravo Company and Palmetto State Armory. At least I know I will get what I ordered. If this is posted in the wrong area, I apologize. I know I have not been a member of this site long but I have been in the firearms community for a long time.
Seems like an anomaly of an experience. Weird. They seem to have overwhelmingly positive reviews overall.
Literally the first bad thing I've heard. They are active here, I'd expect a response soon.
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Perhaps it's legitimate, but I thought enough of them to have them build a rifle for me. We'll see for sure, as soon as I get it. I''m keeping the faith at this time.
“We used to carry knives,” he said. “Now we have to carry keys.” China Fences In Its Nomads, and an Ancient Life Withers; Andrew Jacobs; New York Times; July 12, 2015.
I know I have not been a member of this site long..............
No kidding - post count of 1! Did you try emailing Mike directly? Mike@sonsoflibertygw.com
Or sending a PM via this forum where SOLGW is a member?
I really hate to jump in here, but I'll share my experience. In June I purchased a 16" complete upper, ALG rail, nothing super special.
14 days from order to shipping notification, with delivery coming a couple days after. They ship everything 2 day, which is really nice.
I wasn't able to get my eotech mounted flat, as it seemed like the receiver rail was slightly out of spec. The mating between the upper rail and FF handguard was clearly not level, with a couple mm gap on the right hand side. I also had some pretty major feeding issues, with rounds binding on the feed ramp from an open bolt. I did the usual troubleshooting, and confirmed the lower and mags was OK with a known-good spare upper.
I contacted Mike about this and he was pretty surprised, and indicated they hadn't had an upper come back yet and asked me to send the upper and lower up to them for review. He mentioned that they'd send the rifle back GTG, which I appreciated. I also asked for a quick email update once they figured out what was wrong, and this request was confirmed. Mike mentioned they'd stake the castle for me, something I hadn't gotten around to yet.
I shipped the rifle back on a Friday, and had the rifle back in hand the next Friday. Real quick turnaround there, very impressed.
Unfortunately, I didn't get an email indicating that the upper was being shipped back, or describing what the problem was or what was replaced / fixed. The castle also wasn't staked, which is no big deal. Fortunately I stopped home Friday on my way out of town, or the rifle would have been sitting on my porch all weekend.
I've put about 750 rounds through the upper since then, and it's a really sweet shooting piece. Whatever they did, it fixed the rail and feeding issue completely, and I haven't had any FTFs since the upper's return. Groupings are nice and tight. Now that the upper's in hand, I'm impressed with it's performance.
Again, I don't want to give a negative impression about SOLGW, and they did fix the issue (whatever it was) without hesitation or complaint. Mike seemed like a good guy when I spoke with him and was very prompt about returning calls. I would have liked to know what the initial problem was, but since it's shooting so well now I have put it out of my mind.
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.
I recently ordered from SOLGW. Both of my upper build kits were missing roll pins and only one of the two SpringCo recoil springs showed up. I emailed them Friday evening and had shipping confirmation for the missing items from Kyle on Saturday morning, but it was still inconvenient to be missing pieces from multiple items in my order. At least I had easy communication with them.
SheepleShepherd
08-21-16, 12:35
Austin, We all have to start somewhere. No, I did not email Mike. I don't even know who Mike is. I emailed Kyle because that is the website said to email regarding Orders. I gave them plenty of chances to respond. I was giving them a chance but over 15 days wait time for a Lower and some AR Magazines?? come on... Appreciate your concern for my Newbie status though...
SheepleShepherd
08-21-16, 12:41
Travis, well at least you got an email. I emailed the guy 3 times, called twice and left a message on Facebook and never heard anything. At the very minimum they should have said they didn't have the stuff in stock. as a matter of fact, if you go to the website and try to find the Surefeed magazines you get a 404 page not displayed message. Just a simple email saying, hey we don't have the items in stock would have been good enough for me. they could have refunded my money and I would have been happy. I hate having to do things the hard way. It's never good for anyone.
dramabeats
08-21-16, 13:06
So you slam SOL and endorse PSA?? The company that has some of the worst shipping times in the industry?
SheepleShepherd
08-21-16, 13:26
I agree, PSA does have some long wait times. I'm not trying to come off as slamming the place. And honestly I was just giving folks a heads up on my experience. I realize not everyone is going to have the same thing happen to them that happened to me. I'm only stating that after as much communication that I did or tried to do with SOLGW I expected more. I understand people may not have items in stock or shipping may be a little slow and I am OK with that. It's just my experience. I am only going off MY Experience. No one else's.
There is more to this story.
I'm calling it now.
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SheepleShepherd
08-21-16, 13:29
Kenneth,
Like I said, It's my Experience.
No, I did not email Mike.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?182121-Sons-of-Liberty-Gun-Works
In post #18 he says he is the owner.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?182121-Sons-of-Liberty-Gun-Works
In post #18 he says he is the owner.
Kyle's email signature mentions he's an owner (too?).
Leaveammoforme
08-21-16, 14:51
There is more to this story.
I'm calling it now.
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Yep.
Poor form as a first post . Even if this was about Dicks, CTD or PSA it still leaves a reader wondering.
Things happen. There could be issues that certain parties may not disclose. Whether the issues may be supply, health or even crappy servers is neither here nor there.
15 days? People waited 15 months before relaying experiences with places like Knesek.
Kyle's email signature mentions he's an owner (too?).
Don't know either one of them, but in post #18 linked above, Mike said: "My name is Mike and I own Sons of Liberty Gun Works."
Maybe they both do, in which case a better choice of words would be co-owner.
SheepleShepherd
08-21-16, 14:59
Yeah, i am not sure who the owners are exactly. I know when I was looking at making purchases I noticed the company was founded by two friends and an Ex Navy Seal. Seemed like a good shop. I wanted to purchase more items. I guess the bottom line is, It is what it is and nothing can be changed. I hate that I was ignored but there are simply just too many gun shops, and other companies that offer the same stuff. I did notice another negative post from another customer within the last week. Not sure really. customer service is a really big deal to me. Communication is an even bigger deal. IMHO
SheepleShepherd
08-21-16, 15:08
15 months seems excessive. A little too long for me. However when a member of this forum states they sent Kyle and email Friday, 19 AUG 16 and Kyle replied back 20 AUG 2016 then why were my emails and posts and calls ignored? Chase customer service called the shop (during Business Hours) Friday and was also not able to reach anyone or leave a message? I don't want people on this forum making up excuses for the Business. I want people on this forum to read the original post and do their research. I guess I'm just the lucky one :) furthermore when you advertise something is in stock you should be prompt on getting it out. So yes, 15 days for an order of Magazines and a lower is excessive. It's my opinion. you don't have to agree with it.
I second the "Poor form" comment above.
I had a communication mishap with SOLGW and when Mike got wind of it he reached out to me with his personal cell phone number and personally saw my order through. Mike went above and beyond to make things right. Stuff happens, A+ on customer service and quality in my book.
SheepleShepherd
08-21-16, 15:18
Lol, really, let's get over the First post issue. It's irrelevant and trivial. Everyone on this forum has a first post. Just because it's something you don't like or agree with doesn't make it a "Poor First Post".
SheepleShepherd
08-21-16, 15:19
I'm glad you had a good experience.
I spoke to Mike before I placed my order on a rifle. Mike made suggestions that both educated me, and saved me money. I could tell he wasn't just trying to push guns, but really wanted his customers to get the best for their needs.
Now, the real proof is always in what is received, and how it performs. When I receive it, I'll let you know.
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Apologies for the inconvenience.
This is the first I've heard of it.
I've been out of town this week presenting a rifle to Sheriff Clarke (really cool guy, btw)
And we closed the shop down Friday for a buddy's funeral.
That doesn't excuse the issue with your order...I agree comms should have been better.
We were put in a bit of an unexpected spot with those Surefeed mags.
We order them by the hundreds...we mail okay industries a check, when we see it cash we know the mags are on the way... that's why we put them back up for sale.
They were 30 days late in shipping to us. They'll be here this week, and I'll expedite your order along with a credit towards any future order.
Or, I can refund your order. Whichever you prefer dude.
We honestly, no shit, try to hit it out of the park every time we're at bat. Unfortunately, things like this can happen. It's rare...but when they do, all we can do is try to compensate you in some way for the lost time.
Mike@sonsoflibertygw.com is my direct email if you have any other questions or if you want to direct me on what to do at this point.
And, yes I am the co-owner. Kyle is my partner...but I'm usually the guy you see on social media or active on the boards.
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Can you please direct me to the negative reviews you mentioned in the original post?
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SheepleShepherd
08-21-16, 15:52
Mike, I appreciate your post. I will send you an email later.
MajorLonghorn
08-21-16, 23:06
These guys have been in business for only two years. True, they haven't worked out all the kinks in their operation. My own order took longer than I thought it would. However, I've met them personally, shook hands, drank a beer, and I can tell you that they sincerely aim to become one of the premier AR makers out there. I am confident that they will do what it takes to fix their customer service issues and get it done.
PrivateCitizen
08-23-16, 12:44
Just as a matter of providing info on experience:
On 8/16 I placed an order for a BCG 3pk listed as in stock. Funds were immediately collected. After a week order is still 'unfulfilled' according to the site. No other communications from SOLGW. I will email them today and see if they get back to me.
Also, I looked at the FAQ and they don't say anything about what the shipping times are or what should be expected.
Again, not complaining, just relating. This lead-time and fulfillment may be completely normal for SOLGW (although I was expecting more Bravo and less PSA).
For what it is worth, I also ordered items from BCM on 8/16 (same day) and products arrived Friday 8/19. Shipping sizes/charges on both BCM/SOLGW were essentially identical.
2 bits.
It always amazes me how touchy some people can be after, publicly nonetheless, posting up a complaint about one of our community supported business'/manufacturers.
OP, don't take things so personally, your experience is one in less than a handful we have seen; hence being skeptical.
ETA: And having a post count of 1 with a new thread complaining about said supported company is a tough way to garner support from the membership.
Onto topic, Mike, damn good man. Making things right. Sorry for your recent loss, and these types of topics sure do instill that confidence in me.
In an era of instant satisfaction, knowing that a company will bend over backwards to make things right, that is worth a little patience and perseverance.
Thanks for being a great competitor in this market.
Lol, really, let's get over the First post issue. It's irrelevant and trivial. Everyone on this forum has a first post. Just because it's something you don't like or agree with doesn't make it a "Poor First Post".
When a first post is about a negative experience with company it is always suspect. Shills abound.
Things happen. There could be issues that certain parties may not disclose. Whether the issues may be supply, health or even crappy servers is neither here nor there.
15 days? People waited 15 months before relaying experiences with places like Knesek.
I know nothing about these guys but get really tired of folks who wait to see how the responses are going and pile on.
For the record I have a positive opinion of Sons of Liberty Gun Works simply because of the way that one of the owners has responded on this thread - very business-like. I wish them well.
In post #4 and # 14, Austin seems to intimate that before one posts they should read every page on the forum and also commit the membership to memory. Granted, someone familiar with forums could have searched for prior posts/threads but the OP was relating his experience to let folks know of his issue. Cut him a little slack, okay?
As for the post I quoted above, once again I know nothing about SOLGW, and am not pointing this at them.
Threads like this remind me of a go-kart racing forum I moderate on. In speedway karting, tire profile and the chemicals you put on them make the difference between making the feature or trailering after the heat races. Everyone thinks they have the secret go-juice and can cut a tire better than the next guy. Often they go into business as a sideline and when they get too many orders they fall behind. Forums being what they are, it doesn't take long before someone is posting 'Ace's Preps promised me tires for the big money race with 2 weeks lead time and didn't come through.'
Sure enough, next post someone is there saying 'Well Ace works full time at the railroad and does his tire service between that and racing, so you need to expect that sometimes.' Wrong answer, Ace advertised, Ace took the order, Ace took the money, it is incumbent upon him to deliver. Wait more than two weeks before complaining, my ass.
The internet makes it too easy to solicit business for folks who have the best intentions, but no business plan.
Mike/SOLRW's even-handed explanation of what happened was admirable. In an ideal world it would be nice if every business had a back-order notification system and notifed folks that 'we took your order in good faith based on a scheduled delivery from one of our suppliers, that delivery did not arrive............' In a start-up that can be attributed to growing pains.
Duffy, and from all evidence Mike, fully understand that the old adage 'the customer is always right' holds true today and is the attitude that builds repeat business.
JM devalued $.02.
Leaveammoforme
08-23-16, 21:27
I know nothing about these guys but get really tired of folks who wait to see how the responses are going and pile on.......[snip]
I ,admittedly, got lost in the go-kart analogy. Did you have a question or statement for me?
I ,admittedly, got lost in the go-kart analogy. Did you have a question or statement for me?
Well, yeah. I hate waiting in lines at fast food joints. When there is only one register open and 12 people standing in line, I generally speak to the manager about my experience before I leave, generally I tell them 'hey, if your going to be in business, be in business - get enough folks to run the place.'
Sorry, just effing with you that time. I sometimes use off the wall stuff experiences/examples that aren't understood as clearly as I think they will be.
Seriously, unless it is a one off custom item, or requires hours of work to complete - machine/milling, hand fitting for a gunsmith - waiting an inordinate time for delivery is BS. I order mags and don't have them in two weeks, I'm calling to see where the eff my mags are.
My primary point - not to you - was it seems everyone waits to see how the cool kids post and then jumps on that bandwagon.
titsonritz
08-24-16, 18:59
My primary point - not to you - was it seems everyone waits to see how the cool kids post and then jumps on that bandwagon.
Well now that you have posted I guess I can. :jester:
I have never dealt with SOLGW, but from what I've seen on this forum I'd wouldn't hesitate to do so.
In post # 4 and # 14, Austin seems to intimate that before one posts they should read every page on the forum and also commit the membership to memory.
Exaggerate much and jump to conclusions? ("read every page of a forum and commit the membership to memory")
If I am going to join a forum so I can complain about a vendor in my first post, I am sure going to search that forum for any existing threads regarding my target as it might explain why the problem I am having exists in the first place or provide other ways to make contact. That seems to me to only be fair to the vendor (and, in this case, a forum member).
And if he had searched he would likely have found Mike's email address on his own. But since he didn't, I provided it (post #14) so he could have another avenue to attempt to get his problem solved that might work better than what he had already tried.
I do not know any of the owners or employees of SOLGW, and have never done business with them, but based on Mike's response in this thread and in the thread I linked to in #14, I would have no hesitation in doing so.
Leaveammoforme
08-24-16, 19:29
.....
Seriously, unless it is a one off custom item, or requires hours of work to complete - machine/milling, hand fitting for a gunsmith - waiting an inordinate time for delivery is BS. I order mags and don't have them in two weeks, I'm calling to see where the eff my mags are.
.....
Fair enough. You, as well as I, know some companies get a pass. They get a pass because the situation is the exception and not the rule.
For example;
When I'm looking like Donkey Kong on Mario Cart ,while riding a go-kart left over from childhood that's sporting a 6 HP Harbor Freight motor that has a solid rear axle with a bent axle sprocket and worn out centrifugal clutch on bald tires that occasionally hits a person in the back of their head with the master link, I have a good time.
Fair enough. You, as well as I, know some companies get a pass. They get a pass because the situation is the exception and not the rule.
For example;
When I'm looking like Donkey Kong on Mario Cart ,while riding a go-kart left over from childhood that's sporting a 6 HP Harbor Freight motor that has a solid rear axle with a bent axle sprocket and worn out centrifugal clutch on bald tires that occasionally hits a person in the back of their head with the master link, I have a good time.
Damn, are you sure you didn't help me build my grandson's karts? I'm assuming you don't know anything about it, but there are economy classes at most tracks for sealed harbor freight 6.5 Honda knock-off motors. The builder/track take the governor off, seals the motor so you cant get at the rod, crank, or valves, and then you turn that baby about 5600RPM until you buy a new one.
We used them for practice motors.
Exaggerate much and jump to conclusions? ("read every page of a forum and commit the membership to memory")
Not much, say what you want, but you got all righteous and indignant
I do not know any of the owners or employees of SOLGW, and have never done business with them, but based on Mike's response in this thread and in the thread I linked to in #14, I would have no hesitation in doing so.
I believe I said that myself, two times in my post.
Well now that you have posted I guess I can. :jester:
Nope, you've crawled on the wrong bandwagon, I'm just a jerk.
Leaveammoforme
08-24-16, 22:12
Damn, are you sure you didn't help me build my grandson's karts? I'm assuming you don't know anything about it, but there are economy classes at most tracks for sealed harbor freight 6.5 Honda knock-off motors. The builder/track take the governor off, seals the motor so you cant get at the rod, crank, or valves, and then you turn that baby about 5600RPM until you buy a new one.
We used them for practice motors.
Nice.
It started life with a 5 horse Tecumseh. It would float the valves at around 25 mph with governor bypassed. Put plain washers under valve springs and rigged up a carb from a lawn mower. It would run 31-32 mph before before it fell on its face again.
Problem was the bigger carb made it load up and slip the clutch all the time and that is if you were on the brake. Not on the brake when you started it? You would be chasing it towards the neighbors house or until it wrecked. Plenty of power.
Rolled it once when I yanked the steering wheel and nailed the throttle to show off for the wife. I went by on the RR tire only.
I recently tore down that Tecumseh and surprisingly it was in good shape.
Totally starting a cart thread with pics when I get home. That thing has had a rough life.
This thing has stayed open longer than necessary. Issue is resolved and everyone is happy. T- 75 days.
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