View Full Version : Buckmark vs. 22/45
alvincullumyork
08-26-16, 01:13
I'm thinking about buying a semi 22 and I was all set on a 22/45 but a couple of comments from friends have me questioning this. They said the buckmark was a superior gun and the 22/45 was far less reliable. Is there any truth to this? I only have experience with the 22/45 which has always been positive.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
firefighter37
08-26-16, 05:35
They are both good. 22/45 is a pain in the ass to clean, but once you get the hang of it, its not bad. I like both guns, but it depends on what you want to do with them. If you intend on replacing the barrel, I would go with the BuckMark, as the barrel on the 22/45 is the serialized part. Aftermarket parts support goes to the 22/45.
My BuckMark is the gun that really taught me how to shoot.
The BuckMark is a superior gun. I have owned both and sold both my 22/45. I have far fewer malfunctions with the buckmark and i shoot 90% suppressed. It's a heavier pistol so you need to know that going in. I prefer that as it's easier to manage and be accurate with, its also easier for new shooters as there is zero recoil or barrel rise.
The trigger out of the box is hands down way better in the buckmark. Take down is much easier with the buckmark. The backmark also has the advantage of having the serial number being on the frame; if you want to change out barrels you dont need to go through an FFL. There are not as many accessories as the ruger but I dont view them as necessary. If you are looking for a project gun you can make a 22/45 a very nice gun but if you just want to buy once and forget about it, get the buckmark.
I have both. I prefer the Buckmark. There's not anything really wrong with the 22/45 other than being a pain to clean and I don't do it that often. I just like the Buckmark better. The above post's pretty much covered the pro's of the Buckmark, however If I found a screaming deal on a 22/45 that met my wants for a 22 pistol I would jump on it without hesitation.
thebarracuda
08-26-16, 09:46
Have both, my 22/45 has never had a malf. The buckmark has been very unreliable. So therefore I lean to the ruger. YMMV
I have always heard the Buckmark is quieter when suppressed. Anyone have any experience with that?
I have always heard the Buckmark is quieter when suppressed. Anyone have any experience with that?
Yes and yes but not super noticable. All my experience is primarily with a SiCo Sparrow.
Similar to GLOCK 19/17 vs a Sig 226 suppressed - unlock in my experience is generally a little slower.
One thing to change on the 22/45 is the mag disconnect, I used the Tandemkross from Brownells.
http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/hammer-parts/hammer-bushings/mkiii-22-45-magazine-disconnect-bushing-prod65426.aspx?avs%7cManufacturer_1=TANDEMKROSS
I have had a 22/45 for a number of years although I don't see that they make my model any longer. It shoots pretty well but, as others have said, it is a major pain to take down and clean. It's trigger is just okay (hey, it's a Ruger) but the gun has been mostly trouble free as far as function goes. I've shot other people's Buckmarks at the range and liked them better than my Ruger.
As far as I'm concerned, for .22 autoloading rifles Ruger's 10/22 is the gold standard. I own two of them and will as long as I live. My Ruger 22/45 handgun is not even remotely in that league. Personal opinion.
When I buy another .22 autoloader it will be a Buckmark.
Good luck in your choice.
D.O.A.F.S.
08-26-16, 23:03
I've owned both as well and only kept the buckmark, easier to clean and far superior trigger out of the box. What I will say about the 22/45 is you could run anything through it, the buckmark not so much but ironically it liked federal bulk. My son shot 3 years of steel challenge with it and can say it was probably 5 to 1 in favor of the 22/45 by other competitors. The buckmark served us very well and has 20,000 plus rounds though it with only cleanings, sometimes a 1000 plus between them. It still runs perfect but should have some parts replaced. When I cleaned for the last match of the season last year the extractor flew out, that was the first time it was out of the slide and the spring coils were worn half way though. I had my fingers crossed it would live through the match and it didn't let us down. It just sits in my safe now my son being 14 has moved on to other intrests sadly.
Exiledviking
08-26-16, 23:26
The timing on this thread is pretty funny. I am currently fighting my wife's Buckmark due to failure to fire. Long story, short; do not ever dry fire a Buckmark. I am hopefully just looking at a new firing pin, at worst a new barrel due to the small dimple in the breech face. DOH!!!
I've got thousands of rounds thru my 22/45 and I cannot recall having a malfunction. I've used several different brands of ammo in it. As noted, the trigger needs help right out of the box. You're supposed to clean the 22/45....?!?!? lol. It's been several years...
Coal Dragger
08-27-16, 02:20
I shot competitive bullseye in college my senior year (should have started as a freshman....) and the school had a bunch of old Ruger MKII's that were used for basic handgun marksmanship classes. They all literally had close to 100K on all of them, and they all worked. Rarely cleaned, just lubricated.
If only the team's Hammerli's were as forgiving of ammo choice and maintenance. Of course the Hammerli's were so much more accurate than the Ruger's that comparison in that department is silly.
Long story, short; do not ever dry fire a Buckmark.
Or any rimfire, not just BuckMark.
When I dry fire my BuckMark, I put an empty 22 case in the chamber. Of course, there are always these:
http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Lyman-Zoom-Rifle-Snap-Caps-22-LR-6-Pack&i=776661&r=view&cvsfa=2586&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=373736363631&gclid=COfW8ZW74c4CFQOMaQodkAkHdg
I'm thinking about buying a semi 22 and I was all set on a 22/45 but a couple of comments from friends have me questioning this. They said the buckmark was a superior gun and the 22/45 was far less reliable. Is there any truth to this? I only have experience with the 22/45 which has always been positive.
Lots of good info here, of course, but consider spending some time on Rimfire Central in the BuckMark and 22/45 forums.
One clarification: the rugers are not hard to clean, they are just very specific in the takedown/reassembly procedure. Ie: there is a trick to it. Use the trick and it's no big deal. Don't know it, and it is very difficult to reassemble.
And yes , the Buckmark and Hammerlis have better triggers and easier takedown.
But I've found the Hammerlis to be more ammo sensitive. While the Ruger eats anything and will function till it has so much residue built up that the bolt won't drop. Even then, a squirt of lubricant will get it going again.
If you get anything but the Ruger get plenty of mags, as they can get hard to find later
All my experience has been with the mk II and mk I bull barrel versions, not the 22/45. But the mech is the same as I understand it.
I view the Ruger 22 pistol family as the glock of the 22 world. Not perfect, has "stuff" to deal with. But overall reliability and ubiquity makes it the default choice unless you really want something different and are willing to sort issues and reduced aftermarket support.
But even without that aftermarket, I'd still probably take the Ruger. As I did in the early 80s when the aftermarket did not exist
Evel Baldgui
08-27-16, 08:33
The only .22 pistols I've owned have been rugers, never had an issue with them. Sold all my .22 stuff a few months ago, but for the 5-6 years I had them, never had a problem with the 22/45 or mkiii. I did shoot a friend's buck mark a few weeks back and thought it was 'smoother' than my old rugers, other than that no experience w buckmarks.
If you are planning on spending a lot of after market then volquartsen has the Scorpion already tricked out on the 22/45 Frame... but.. it's $1K
There are after market parts that are pretty easy to install. and you could probably do similar for $600 total. Even the takedown. Someone makes a retro fit so you don't have to do that crazy ass take down. You just draw teh bolt out and then can clean the whole deal.
I've never had a Buckmark but so far my 22/45 works fine. I put, I think about $100 of after market parts and it feels like a different gun. Volq. and Tandemkross. I enjoy shooting it more than my HiStandard, but I bought the LITE for that specific reason.
The tandemkross guy has some really good vids and one is simply devoted to polishing up the magazines.
Aren't the buckmarks about 2X the price of 22/45.. I think you kinda get what you pay for in fine detail polish. 22/45 is $350. For another $100 you can transform it.
Edge as far as trigger goes to Mark II versions of the 22/45. Those can be taken to 2-pounds +ounces safely and they'll last forever! Many years ago I built target pistols off them when I had my gunsmithing FFL and one shooter was #2 in his State for years, shooting the lowly Ruger against Pardinis and the like. I even made custom compensators and lo and behold when Volquartson came out with their units ... they looked like my design, albeit reverse engineered, lol.
To me, Ruger RUINED that pistol line w/ the mag disconnect ... and other 'alleged safety' improvements.
I'd never EVER buy any Mark III version ...
There was a time when it seemed like I couldn't go to the range or my local bullseye gunshop without putting someone's Ruger back together ...
Aren't the buckmarks about 2X the price of 22/45..
$329.99 http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/browning-buck-mark-camper-22-lr-semiautomatic-pistol-200023439--1
I bought a 5-1/2" Buckmark in ~1995. I've used it for rimfire matches, rec shooting, and a bunch of folks learned to shoot on it including my kids. 1000 rounds a year of shooting would be a very conservative estimate. I have done nothing for PM but brush it out 2-3x a year and relube it as needed. It eats everything I feed it from the original batch of magazines bought at the same time as the gun. I don't remember what it cost ($200?) but it's been a stellar value.
To me, Ruger RUINED that pistol line w/ the mag disconnect ... and other 'alleged safety' improvements.
Totally agree that some mk iii changes were inspired more by Ruger legal dept and hurt the shootability of a great pistol design. Bad call on Ruger's part, still not fixed to this day. Personally, I've sold off my last remaining 22/45 as I just did not enjoy shooting or using them that much as other folks seem to. On the question of 22/45 vs Buckmark, my personal response is "neither". The only .22 pistol I have left--and that I DO shoot regularly because it gives me lower cost recoil-free training on a serious pistol platform that I care about--is a Nelson custom 1911 conversion that is more accurate than any stock 22/45 heavy barrel or Lite I ever owned (had a total of 5). And I can drop the Nelson on my 1911 that already has a great trigger and an operating system I'm familiar with. Being a lefty, the 22/45 RH biased controls have always been awkward and annoying. Haven't owned a Buckmark, but I assume that like the 22/45 its operating system is not going to be similar to any serious centerfire pistol I care about, and not particularly LH friendly, so not that interested. I don't expect other shooters feel the same way about this as I do, which leads to the next point.
Despite Ruger's bad design changes and my personally moving on from the mk iii 22/45, they are still a very accurate and reliable .22 at the price point if you're convinced you want one. I don't think somebody who's decided they want a .22 of this type makes a bad choice by getting a 22/45, even the mk iii. You can easily solve the magazine disconnect problem with a $10 part that anybody can install. Just install this part, maybe improve your trigger with Volquartsen sear and trigger parts, add better aftermarket sights, and for maybe $100 to $150 beyond the price of the pistol, you'll have a pretty shootable 22/45. One heads up on 22/45 accuracy: I consistently see mixed reviews about the accuracy of the 22/45 "lite" models. I owned one (recently sold), and I experienced what many shooters have, it was difficult to get them to group as tightly at 25 yards+ as the heavy/steel barreled 22/45's. Don't know if this is an inherent accuracy issue with the lite barrels, or just because the lighter weight up front makes it more difficult to stay on target. I just know my last one didn't shoot nearly as accurately as my heavy barreled older ones. If I were buying a 22/45 today myself, because I want my .22's to be extremely accurate, I'd get one with a steel/bull barrel. Even if you get a used one with a steel barrel in good condition. Or if you get the light, then get an aftermarket heavy barrel from somebody like Volquartsen or Clark Custom Guns so you can switch between the light and heavy uppers whenever you want. Problem there, is that with a 22/45 the barreled upper is the serial numbered part of the pistol, so it'll be expensive and going that route can easily equal the original cost of the pistol.
Here's the tandemkross bushing to fix the mag disconnect issue in the mk iii 22/45. Oops I see somebody else already mentioned this.
https://www.tandemkross.com/Steel-Hammer-Bushing-for-Mark-III-and-2245-Pistols_p_9.html
$329.99 http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/browning-buck-mark-camper-22-lr-semiautomatic-pistol-200023439--1
Oh wow, I thought they were near $700.
My decision was also based on needing a threaded barrel.
for that price, get one of each.
You can get both the camper and URX models with a threaded barrel. Grab a gun generally has them for under $450.
You can get both the camper and URX models with a threaded barrel. Grab a gun generally has them for under $450.
http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/buck-mark-pistols/current-production/buck-mark-field-target-suppressor-ready.html
http://www.lipseysguns.com/post/Browning-Buckmark-Camper-22-LR-Threaded-Barrel.aspx
Oh, I know what the other thing was when i was shopping around. I wanted a rail on top for a RDS too. That Buckmark with the rail and threaded barrel looks nice. I found a new 22/45 LITE for $350 shipped so just said what the hell. I think I have $550 in it now with RDS and Compensator ( will be replaced by can this winter ). But that includes all the after market parts and removal of the bad stuff.
It sounds like $ for $ those are very similar pistols.
Slightly OT . .22lr speed loader... https://www.tandemkross.com/McFadden-Ultimate-Cliploader-Ruger-Mark-IIIII-_p_31.html
I bought one of those things because it was on sale. Man that thing is nice. You just dump all your rounds in. Slide the empty or partially empty mag in, shake it... boom... it's loaded and ready to roll. I think it works for most all .22lr thin single stack mags. The first one I loaded I thought man this was a waste, then I looked and realized the mag was full. It loaded it so fast I thought it didn't load any rounds.
My Buckmark is incredibly accurate at 50 yards and has been very reliable for over a thousand rounds. I had a failure to fire last winter and decided it was time to finally clean it. Flawless ever since.
I have no experience with the Ruger.
I've got three Rugers (2 MKIIs and a 22/45) and one Buckmark. All of them work well. I had one magazine for the 22/45 that was finicky (rough finish inside) and the original Buckmark barrel didn't like some types of ammo. The Buckmark now has a threaded barrel (bought it used, I think it was a factory Camper barrel someone threaded) and now works great. The stock Buckmark trigger is better but the Rugers are serviceable and can be improved. I did remove the mag safety on the 22/45, which I highly recommend. Suppressed the Ruger sounds better to my ear if that's a factor. Otherwise the Buckmark is slightly nicer overall. Very close. The older MKIIs are definitely better than the newer MKIIIs.
brickboy240
08-29-16, 14:53
Do none of you know about the Speed Strip Kit for Ruger 22 pistols?
Get a 22-45 and a Speed Strip Kit and press on!
I have been shooting a 22-45 for going on 10 years now and it is accurate and reliable.
replacement
08-31-16, 07:03
My Buckmark is the one firearm that goes to the range every trip. I purchased back in the early 1980's and it has been great firearm to own. It loves mini mags, and has introduced several girl friends and multiple wives to shooting. LOL
Do none of you know about the Speed Strip Kit for Ruger 22 pistols?
Get a 22-45 and a Speed Strip Kit and press on!
I have been shooting a 22-45 for going on 10 years now and it is accurate and reliable.
That's the thing I mentioned above. Couldn't remember the name.... although this guy is pretty damn fast and I've seen another guy as fast or faster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb82IlfNzNg
If anyone got the hots for a Buckmark. The sportsman Outdoor Superstore is having a Labor Day sale and it looks like the whole line is basically $330 to just under $300 depending on model. Although the email I got some models they only had like 2 left of each.
I agree that Ruger ruined the pistol with the MK III, however their are easy Volquartsen fixes for them. I have a MK II era 22/45, 4 in bull barrel target version, and two MK II's with the 5.5 in bull barrel. They are accurate and reliable. I prefer the Rugers.
LittleWrench173rdABCT
09-01-16, 18:06
Rugers are a pain to field strip, and the rental one we have at my job goes back to the factory for repairs monthly.. Id go for the buckmark.
Field stripping the Ruger take seconds. It's remembering the trick to field strip it that takes so long
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
LittleWrench173rdABCT
09-01-16, 18:11
Sounds like I need more training! I guess I just got lazy messing with M&P22s that literally take seconds to strip.
From (rusty) memory the trick is to hold it upside down when reassembling the locking pin. And it has to be uncocked.
No big deal for a mk 1 or 2. But you have to out the mag in to uncock a mk 3.
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.