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If I own a lower out of state, how do I ship it to myself? Usps?
FedEx and ups state they only ship FFL to individual or vice versa.
edited - see clarification below.
A lower is treated like a handgun and can only be shipped FFL to FFL with paperwork being done at time of pick up.
wildcard600
08-26-16, 10:28
A lower is treated like a handgun and can only be shipped FFL to FFL with paperwork being done at time of pick up.
I don't know if that is technically correct, from the BTAF website -
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0501-firearms-top-10-qaspdf/download
7. May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-State licensee, or must I have a licensee in
my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across
State lines?
Any person may ship firearms directly to a licensee in any State, with no requirement for another
licensee to ship the firearm. However, handguns are not mailable through the United States Postal
Service and must be shipped via common or contract carrier.(18 U.S.C. §§ 1715). Firearms shipped
to FFLs for repair or any other lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received
without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipient’s State of residence. FFLs may also
return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received. 18 U.S.C.
§ 922(a)(2)(A).
At the end of the day, the transfer and 4473 needs to be completed in your state of residence.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-26-16, 10:37
If I buy a lower out of state, how do I ship it to myself? Usps?
FedEx and ups state they only ship FFL to individual or vice versa.
It is posts like this that make people think you can buy a machine gun on the internet. If this post and the one about an upper sale across state lines hadn't come from high post count/known members, I'd say that something was up.
Not enough details on what 'bought' means. Bought versus transferred. From whom? I always thought lowers were treated like pistols, so in state transfers only.
SomeOtherGuy
08-26-16, 10:41
If I buy a lower out of state, how do I ship it to myself? Usps?
If you bought it yourself, why do you need to ship it? Transport it in the same manner as any other firearm. OK in checked luggage if properly declared. Just avoid the evil un-constitutional states like NY, unless you are unreasonably confident in FOPA protections.
A lower is treated like a handgun and can only be shipped FFL to FFL with paperwork being done at time of pick up.
Not precisely. The shipping rules on handguns apply only to handguns, not to lowers that are to be used (your call) to build a rifle or shotgun. However, the ATF opinion is that someone under 21 can only purchase a complete rifle/shotgun from a FFL dealer, not a stripped lower even if it's intended to be used to construct one of those. Likewise, the rules allowing you to buy a rifle/shotgun in any state where legal, even if not your home state, may not exempt the purchase of a stripped lower. There is a difference between "is a handgun" which brings the most restrictions, and "is not a rifle/shotgun" which would otherwise have the least amount of restrictions.
OP: I suspect that there is either an easier and legal way to do what you want, or you may need to re-examine the original purchase.
I bought a lower, moved, moved back but left the lower in the other state. I'm flying back to visit and wanted to ship it back to myself. It was technically purchased in my current state. It's a stripped lower. Would I be better off just declaring it and checking it on flight home?
Sounds like it is yours and you are now going to collect the property you left behind as a citizen.
Shouldn't be any issue if you declare it.
YMMV though. But I fail to see why this would be an issue if you legally purchased it, never "sold" it to someone else or anything, and are now just collecting the property you left behind after moving home.
It is posts like this that make people think you can buy a machine gun on the internet. If this post and the one about an upper sale across state lines hadn't come from high post count/known members, I'd say that something was up.
Not enough details on what 'bought' means. Bought versus transferred. From whom? I always thought lowers were treated like pistols, so in state transfers only.
As said it was bought and transferred to me, here, I moved and took it, moved back but left it and want to get it back to my house.
I don't get the MG reference.
Yes, I'm pretty sure you can simply ship it to yourself. Or, you can declare it and check it. I think it will need to be in a locked, labeled box inside your checked baggage. Would need to check with airline.
You are basically simply "moving" your firearm again. I don't see why you can't just mail it to yourself. Checking it in baggage would be cheaper though.
I don't get the MG reference.
In your first post, it sounded like you went to State A, bought a gun, and want to ship it to State B. In Liberal speak they translate that to .... A guy drives over the border where there are no firearms laws and buys and machine gun. Then he simply ships it back to State where he goes out one day and sprays it from the hip and kills 75 people. .. and of course all that takes place in say 3 hours on a Saturday afternoon.
IOW, you are doing something perfectly legal, normal, and necessary... but with what you first stated... a Liberal will fill in the blanks with lies and impossibilities and illegal actions.. .then get interviewed on the news at which point it will become Gospel.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-26-16, 14:08
Exactly. Someone could read the first post and infer that something was amiss. The other thread in the GD about buying an upper across state lines just seemed almost too coincidental.
It sounds like the question you have is "How do I move a lower I own from one state to another." Sounds simple, but a stripped lower is sometimes a bit of a oddity when it comes to stuff.
I would assume you'd need a lockable hard case to fly. Stupid, but it is a 'firearm'.
SomeOtherGuy
08-26-16, 15:09
I bought a lower, moved, moved back but left the lower in the other state. I'm flying back to visit and wanted to ship it back to myself. It was technically purchased in my current state. It's a stripped lower. Would I be better off just declaring it and checking it on flight home?
Yes. This is perfectly legal under federal law, and by FOPA extension, should be fine under state law. I would hesitate to do this if any of the states involved in the trip are stupid (NY, NJ, CA, etc.) but if you're traveling directly from free state A to free state B, just put it in your checked luggage. Remember the TSA firearms rules and to declare it at check-in. It should be a total non-issue.
SomeOtherGuy
08-26-16, 15:16
Yes, I'm pretty sure you can simply ship it to yourself.
The tricky issue with shipping is that some circumstances are LEGAL to ship, but are against the various shipping company's policies. I think it would be legal for him to ship it to himself, but it might violate some shipper's policy, and if they lose it or find it and it's against their policy, you may be out of luck.
There are a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings about legality of shipping. You have not heard stupid until you've heard a UPS store clerk (college student who should have been a janitor) and UPS store owner (just as dumb, but older) tell you what is "illegal" when they are 100% wrong, but have the absolute faith of morons that they are correct. "The UPS Store" is a horrible franchise, and several different locations have proven generally immune to any discussions including direct quotes from both federal law and the official UPS policy manual. (I was not attempting to ship firearms at the UPS store, which is against UPS policy - my bad experiences relate to other things.)
A lower is treated like a handgun and can only be shipped FFL to FFL with paperwork being done at time of pick up.
That is not correct. If you are the owner, there is no "transfer" and you can ship any firearm to yourself. The only exception would be states with firearms registration or laws that make the firearm prohibited to own in the state.
Now FedEx and UPS may have "policies" regarding firearms, but these are not laws.
wildcard600
08-26-16, 15:31
"I own a lower, it's in my former state of residence. How do I get it to my current home" is much different than "I bought a lower out of state, how do I ship it to myself ?".
ColtSeavers
08-26-16, 15:37
Thread title pissery aside, I would simply grab a lock box and declare it before checking it as baggage.
"I own a lower, it's in my former state of residence. How do I get it to my current home" is much different than "I bought a lower out of state, how do I ship it to myself ?".
Ok, did he buy it in person? Is he also out of state? Or is it technically not his property yet and only paid for?
Sorry guys, I made OP from work, and was trying to be brief and thought the way I worded it would be the same answer but easier to explain.
Learn new stuff every day!
Thanks for explanations. Looks like I'll be checking it in on the flight back.
So...
6. May I lawfully ship a firearm to myself in a different State?
Any person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State where
he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to
the owner “in the care of” the out-of-State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than
the owner must not open the package or take possession of the firearm.
Yes you can legally mail a firearm to yourself.
You should probably do it via UPS or Fedex. You don't have to tell them what you're shipping.
titsonritz
08-26-16, 17:03
Remember the TSA firearms rules and to declare it at check-in. It should be a total non-issue.
Thread title pissery aside, I would simply grab a lock box and declare it before checking it as baggage.
You must declare a stripped lower in your checked baggage? Really?
You must declare a stripped lower in your checked baggage? Really?
Well, it is a firearm.
Well, it is a firearm.
Funny how that escapes some people.
You must declare a stripped lower in your checked baggage? Really?
Well sure. Otherwise you could just grab the upper, lower receiver parts, mags and ammo that you slipped through security, climb through the lavatory into the luggage area and assemble a lethal killing machine.
But technically it IS a firearm per ATFs ridiculously absurd definitions so if somebody wanted to be a dick about it they could cause problems for you.
Well sure. Otherwise you could just grab the upper, lower receiver parts, mags and ammo that you slipped through security, climb through the lavatory into the luggage area and assemble a lethal killing machine.
But technically it IS a firearm per ATFs ridiculously absurd definitions so if somebody wanted to be a dick about it they could cause problems for you.
I get the sarcasm (and I agree) but at some point, a "firearm" must be determined.
Funny, my friend tried taking a mag, in packaging, on his carryon....
A suit came out for that one. Ended up throwing it away.
I get the sarcasm (and I agree) but at some point, a "firearm" must be determined.
Why? So it can be regulated? Defining a receiver as a firearm is as absurd as defining a suppressor as a firearm. One is a firearm "part" and the other is a firearm "accessory." Only a fully manufactured firearm is a firearm.
You can't shoot a "receiver" but ironically enough with a lead pipe and a nail you can shoot a "zip gun" and that is nothing more than a barrel. See where the definitions become idiotic? The nature of firearms defy strict definitions, especially when created for regulation.
This is when shoestrings and paperclips become "machine guns." I wholly disagree with you that what constitutes a firearm must be determined anymore than what constitutes a chair must be determined.
http://i.imgur.com/R4TbArJ.jpg
You must declare a stripped lower in your checked baggage? Really?
I wouldn't risk it. Some TSA might like a new lower. If you don't report it as a firearm it is far more likely to disappear. With a firearm tag attached there is quite a bit more hell to pay if it comes up missing.
I wouldn't risk it. Some TSA might like a new lower. If you don't report it as a firearm it is far more likely to disappear. With a firearm tag attached there is quite a bit more hell to pay if it comes up missing.
Will tsa, the airline, or insurance cover the full cost after a firearm is "lost"
I'm under the impression not declaring the gun is illegal, and would void the possible claim
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Thank you!
That is not correct. If you are the owner, there is no "transfer" and you can ship any firearm to yourself. The only exception would be states with firearms registration or laws that make the firearm prohibited to own in the state.
Now FedEx and UPS may have "policies" regarding firearms, but these are not laws.
Don't declare it and see what happens. TSA will call the airport police, you will not have a declared tag and you can then be charged for not declaring a firearm.
You must declare a stripped lower in your checked baggage? Really?
You cannot buy a stripped lower out of state, so the purchase would be unlawful.
"I own a lower, it's in my former state of residence. How do I get it to my current home" is much different than "I bought a lower out of state, how do I ship it to myself ?".
BuzzinSATX
08-27-16, 05:42
You cannot buy a stripped lower out of state, so the purchase would be unlawful.
See post #6 OP bought the lower while a resident of another state.
Why? So it can be regulated? Defining a receiver as a firearm is as absurd as defining a suppressor as a firearm. One is a firearm "part" and the other is a firearm "accessory." Only a fully manufactured firearm is a firearm.
You can't shoot a "receiver" but ironically enough with a lead pipe and a nail you can shoot a "zip gun" and that is nothing more than a barrel. See where the definitions become idiotic? The nature of firearms defy strict definitions, especially when created for regulation.
This is when shoestrings and paperclips become "machine guns." I wholly disagree with you that what constitutes a firearm must be determined anymore than what constitutes a chair must be determined.
http://i.imgur.com/R4TbArJ.jpg
Like I said the first time, I agree with you. (Meaning, I agree with your sarcasm about how absurd the whole thing is.)
Also, like I said the first time, at some point a firearm has to be determined. The ATF (not me) decided it was at the receiver.
Never once did I say that I agreed with them.
ramairthree
08-27-16, 09:23
What about some of the whole gun more common situations?
You live in one state.
You move to another.
You left some long guns at the parents house.
Next time you visit,
Can you send them to your new address in another state?
(You flew, drive a smart car, etc.)
Relative dies in your old home state.
You inherited a bubba SKS,
Crappy shotgun, and Walmart hunting rifle,
And a priceless antique the family claims is a war trophy, rare, etc. that turns out to be a sporterized, cut down 303 enfield.
Next time you visit can you mail them to yourself?
Like I said the first time, I agree with you. (Meaning, I agree with your sarcasm about how absurd the whole thing is.)
Also, like I said the first time, at some point a firearm has to be determined. The ATF (not me) decided it was at the receiver.
Never once did I say that I agreed with them.
Fair enough.
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