View Full Version : Intro to Radio Communications
Outlander Systems
08-06-09, 11:28
My recent post in another thread about all the things about modern civilisation that give me the warm 'n fuzzies got me think about one such item:
Communication.
Despite being the last man alive without a cellular phone, I enjoy being able to contact friends/family via the telephone. It's one of the big ones that I think we collectively take for granted, having never known life without some form of electronic/remote communication.
Has anyone factored in comm-gear into their preps?
How does one power the equipment in the event of disruption to the grid? I've thought about solar panels, but I don't know if they'll pump the juice necessary to power the gear.
Options; there's tons. CB/HAM/GMRS/FM/UHF/SW/etc.
I know very little about commercially available communications setups; yet it's something I'd definitely like to incorporate into my "OMG!" kit.
I keep a couple sets of FRS/GMRS radios at home. I use them for paintball, car club road trips, family theme park trips, etc. I keep plenty of batteries (alkaline, NiMh rechargeable, and energizer lithium) on hand at all times. I also have the radio that I use for the rescue squad. It is a VHF radio, programmed to transmit and receive on local fire, ems, and police bands, statewide ems, as well as receive weather channel and state police broadcasts. Unfortunately, it requires a computer and special cable/software to program (have to go to dispatch to have it programmed). This means that it is relatively worthless outside of my home county (aside from statewide EMS traffic). I have been looking out for good deals on keypad programmable radios (VHF/UHF) on fleabay, but they are few and far between. An important resource to have in addition to any radio system is a list of frequencies and the agencies that use them. Radioreference.com is invaluable as a resource - you can choose your state/local government, private business, etc. This allows you to preplan to not only have freq's for your local area, but also for your bugout location AND everywhere in between (provided your radio has enough channels).
I also keep a handheld digital trunking scanner that also runs on regular AA's. This helps me conserve the battery of the radio, and will also pick up aviation, marine, CB, etc. signals.
I don't know all that much about CBs or ham equipment, but it is certainly something I would like to explore. A simple CB radio/antenna combo can be had for under $100, but I don't know how effective it would be. Right now I'm pretty comfortable with what I've got.
Oh, and I also keep a pre-paid tracfone and card (unactivated) in each car, and one in the BOB. You never know when you might need it, if you lose your cell phone, or you get no signal on your network (Tracfone will hit pretty much any tower out there). Besides, they were less than $20 each.
MarshallDodge
08-06-09, 13:04
I have some FRS radios and a CB. There are still quite a few CB'ers out their so I would bet that they would be pretty popular in an emergency.
My goal this year is to get my HAM license then purchase some portable VHF HAM radios.
Has anyone factored in comm-gear into their preps?
Sure, but the question is, who do you want to communicate with? Both sides need a compatible device and the ability to power it.
How does one power the equipment in the event of disruption to the grid? I've thought about solar panels, but I don't know if they'll pump the juice necessary to power the gear.
Batteries, generally. Solar panels can work without batteries, but only during the day while the sun is shining. Most radios have reasonable power requirements so they aren't hard or require large power systems to run.
Local few miles can be handled by hand helds with AAs or small battery packs. Larger, longer range, can usually run off 12v systems. You could run it from your car, or a solar panel.
Heavy Metal
08-06-09, 20:20
2Meter VHF Ham is the way to go.
This should be an interesting thread
Comms figure big in my wife & I's preps.
With communication capabilities you are able to monitor what is going on in everything from your local environment to the world.
When severe weather comes into our area, we fire up the 2 meter amateur radios and monitor Skywarn. This allows us to real time where the severe weather is. This has proven more than useful a time or two.
Amateur radio has also given me the ability to help with post disaster recovery. May of 2003 a large F3 flattened the town where my parents lived. As we could not reach them by phone, (land line or cell) I loaded up the truck and drove the 2 1/2 hours down. The area had been hit hard, cell towers were down, the downtown area leveled. The local phone exchange building had been scrubbed down to the foundation.
The only means of communication in our out of there for the first couple of days was by radio. The day after the tornado I spent driving around with my parents checking on the elderly population. I was able to relay message traffic to another amateur radio operator in a different town, she in turn was able to call families and let them know the status of their loved ones.
A General amateur radio license and an HF radio give us world wide communications capabilities. Even during poor radio conditions we've talked to stations from New Zealand to Russia.
Comms also give you a huge tactical advantage. They allow you to know what is happening somewhere else and by knowing that information, allow you to plan for those situations. You can be PROACTIVE, rather than REACTIVE.
An amateur radio technician license is relatively easy to get. A little time studying the material, $14, and find a local test location and you will be good to go. The test is easy to pass with a little reading and studying before hand. If all goes as planned my 8 year old daughter is going to test the first of next year.
Semper Fi
QuietShootr
08-08-09, 11:19
Preface: Don't jump in with comments about legality. Assume that when I'm talking about operating outside a ham band, I'm talking about emergency situations, which FCC rules clearly state is permissible (any mode, any power, any method available). This is a technical discussion, not a "OMGWTFBBQ!! The hams are going to DF your signal and come and paste pocket protectors all over your house!, and the FCC is going to burn your house down, fine you, and violate your daughter!" discussion.
I've been working on this very thing the last couple of weeks.
The Yaesu FT-897D is (imo) the best reasonably priced radio available for what we're talking about. After a simple modification, it is capable of transmitting 1.8-56mHz with no gaps, 136-173mHz no gaps, and 410-470mHz no gaps. Also, it is capable of USB/LSB, AM, FM, CW, and digital modes right out of the box. It puts out 100w of power on external 12V/23A power, and is capable of 20 watts on optional INTERNAL rechargeable LiPo battery packs. It has two very capable auto-tuners available for it, and they can be bolted right to the side of the rig.
A homemade dipole antenna rolls up on an extension cord reel nicely, and all this fits in a small ruck. On the internal batteries, you can expect at least 8 hours of continuous operation before you need to recharge (which can be done from 110 or from 12vdc.)
Couple this with a communication method known as NVIS, or Near-Vertical Incident Skywave, and things begin to get very interesting for the tactical communicator.
I differentiate the tactical communicator from the ham dork (hereafter TC and HD) because of the following:
The ham dork does not necessarily want to talk to a specific station. Normally, he wants to talk as far as possible with little regard for a specific contact, except for wanting to contact someone in a specific country. Oddly enough, they actually have contests to see how many random strangers they can talk to. It takes all kinds, I guess.
The tactical communicator wants to talk to a specific station/unit/person. This is an important distinction, because a successful comm shot to a specific station is a much more interesting problem than simply getting an antenna up and talking to somebody.
Without boring the shit out of you with technical details, just know that there are basically two methods by which radio waves propagate: skywave and groundwave. Skywave is when a signal is reflected off one of the layers of the ionosphere, and groundwave is a signal that follows (this is an oversimplification, I know, but I'm trying to keep this simple) the nap of the earth. Your range with a groundwave is basically limited to the horizon plus a small fraction that can vary based on some weird things that don't really concern us here.
The usual method of communication at HF (high frequency, or 1-30mHz) is skywave, or some variation thereof. Basically this means you are skipping a signal off one of the layers of the ionosphere like skipping a rock across a pond. This results in the signal going much farther, but depending on several factors I won't go into right now, like skipping a rock across a pond you wind up with gaps in coverage (a.k.a. skip zones.) This explains why your Uncle Bob's ham radio can talk to Hoo Flung Poo in Yokota, but not to your Uncle Elmer's 75 miles away.
NVIS is different. It is used mostly in military applications, because its maximum range is typically somewhere between 100-400 miles, which makes it less interesting for HDs. The truly interesting thing about it, though, is that it covers 0-whatever max with NO gaps in coverage, making it VERY useful for military applications that are out of VHF range because of distance, terrain, or whatever.
One of the coolest things about NVIS is that it uses a LOW antenna, not a high one, because the lower your antenna is, the more the signal goes straight up, which is what you want in this application. It works like this: Picture taking a hose into your living room, pointing it straight up at the ceiling, and turning it on. You will get a more-or-less even distribution of water around the whole room, after it splashes (reflects) off the ceiling. So it is with NVIS propagation.
OK - why is this interesting? Because you can throw up a dipole at 6 feet off the ground and have reliable comms with anyone in range, including WAY out of VHF range.
More to follow if anyone's interested.
PA PATRIOT
08-08-09, 16:55
I'll be happy just to stay in short range contact with family and allies. Marine radios (Base and Hand Held) seem to work well with out all the jammed air waves when used inland. While not a next town deal I have had clear com past 20 miles. More then enough for my needs.
LonghunterCO
08-08-09, 18:49
2Meter VHF Ham is the way to go.
Total Noob here: are these line of site? What are there range? LOS stuff doesn't go very far out here...
LonghunterCO
08-08-09, 18:54
Preface: Don't jump in with comments about legality. Assume that when I'm talking about operating outside a ham band, I'm talking about emergency situations, which FCC rules clearly state is permissible (any mode, any power, any method available). This is a technical discussion, not a "OMGWTFBBQ!! The hams are going to DF your signal and come and paste pocket protectors all over your house!, and the FCC is going to burn your house down, fine you, and violate your daughter!" discussion.
I've been working on this very thing the last couple of weeks.
The Yaesu FT-897D is (imo) the best reasonably priced radio available for what we're talking about. After a simple modification, it is capable of transmitting 1.8-56mHz with no gaps, 136-173mHz no gaps, and 410-470mHz no gaps. Also, it is capable of USB/LSB, AM, FM, CW, and digital modes right out of the box. It puts out 100w of power on external 12V/23A power, and is capable of 20 watts on optional INTERNAL rechargeable LiPo battery packs. It has two very capable auto-tuners available for it, and they can be bolted right to the side of the rig.
A homemade dipole antenna rolls up on an extension cord reel nicely, and all this fits in a small ruck. On the internal batteries, you can expect at least 8 hours of continuous operation before you need to recharge (which can be done from 110 or from 12vdc.)
Couple this with a communication method known as NVIS, or Near-Vertical Incident Skywave, and things begin to get very interesting for the tactical communicator.
I differentiate the tactical communicator from the ham dork (hereafter TC and HD) because of the following:
The ham dork does not necessarily want to talk to a specific station. Normally, he wants to talk as far as possible with little regard for a specific contact, except for wanting to contact someone in a specific country. Oddly enough, they actually have contests to see how many random strangers they can talk to. It takes all kinds, I guess.
The tactical communicator wants to talk to a specific station/unit/person. This is an important distinction, because a successful comm shot to a specific station is a much more interesting problem than simply getting an antenna up and talking to somebody.
Without boring the shit out of you with technical details, just know that there are basically two methods by which radio waves propagate: skywave and groundwave....
More to follow if anyone's interested.
TAG for more info that helps me understand all this.
K.L. Davis
08-08-09, 22:07
...Near-Vertical Incident Skywave...
We had a thing they called a Meteor Burst Transmitter, is this (sort of) the same thing?
Heavy Metal
08-08-09, 22:50
We had a thing they called a Meteor Burst Transmitter, is this (sort of) the same thing?
Not Exactly:
http://www.mse-ta.com/meteorburst/meteorbursthowitworks.html
Vs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_Vertical_Incidence_Skywave
QuietShootr
08-08-09, 22:54
We had a thing they called a Meteor Burst Transmitter, is this (sort of) the same thing?
No. MBTs look for ionized trails of air caused by penetration of meteors into the atmosphere to bounce burst transmissions off of.
NVIS is nothing more than high-angle HF radio bouncing straight down, instead of skipping horizontally long distances.
K.L. Davis
08-08-09, 23:39
Works for me... I did enough of the commo thing to get qualed, give me a GRA-71 and a simple WX report could turn into something very bad :(
QuietShootr
08-09-09, 08:15
Works for me... I did enough of the commo thing to get qualed, give me a GRA-71 and a simple WX report could turn into something very bad :(
Wow!! Old school! :D
faithmyeyes
08-10-09, 15:58
Has anyone factored in comm-gear into their preps?
What you need before comm gear is a comm plan. Be specific - don't stop at, "Um, I'd like to be able to hear what's going on, I guess, and call for help if I need it." Once you know who you want to hear and who you want to talk to, you can pick gear that best fits the mission.
RF communication can essentially be broken into two types: line-of-sight (LOS) and beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS). Line-of-sight range is usually calculated by the "four-thirds earth rule:" multiply the distance to the visible horizon by 1.333 to approximately predict a radio wave's unobstructed LOS range. Tree foliage, buildings, terrain, etc, will reduce this range somewhat, depending on the radio frequency and power being used.
Options for LOS include FRS, GMRS, MURS, any business band, public service, or amateur radio operating at ~50 MHz and up, and the occasional oddball like eXRS. Virtually anything that can be used while mobile falls into this category. (Note that I'm speaking to the Tactical Communicator audience as QuietShootr defined in his post. There are mobile amateur HF rigs that can communicate BLOS, but not with the reliability that a tactical communicator would expect.) Each of these options has strengths and weaknesses, again depending on what your communication plan is.
Options for reliable BLOS are essentially limited to amateur radio frequencies. Go back and read QuietShootr's post on NVIS for one of the best options. To elaborate on that a little: NVIS only works on frequencies below 7 MHz, and works most reliably below 4 MHz. Although the antennas can be low, they still have to be long - meaning that you can carry a wire antenna with you, but to use it you'll have to stop and set up.
If one is available, you can communicate limited BLOS on amateur VHF/UHF frequencies using a repeater. A repeater in a good location can allow handheld transceivers to communicate over tens of miles, or even farther with multiple repeaters linked together. If you don't own the repeaters, though, you can't necessarily predict whether they will remain serviceable during a SHTF event.
Also, if listening is part of your comm plan, consider a dedicated receiver such as a scanner or shortwave radio. Transceivers do not necessarily have the best general-coverage receivers built in.
How does one power the equipment in the event of disruption to the grid? I've thought about solar panels, but I don't know if they'll pump the juice necessary to power the gear.
A 12V deep-cycle battery or battery bank with a solar charger is the way to go. The solar won't directly power your high-current transmitters, but it will charge your batteries when you're not using them.
One more piece of advice: get your amateur radio license, but be wary of the amateur emergency-communication groups such as ARES, RACES, etc. The personality of each local group is different, but many of them focus on augmenting "served agencies" (Red Cross, FEMA, etc) rather than directly helping their local communities be self-reliant in a disaster situation. Those groups tend to have a lot of wannabe G-men and folks who think keying their mic and giving their location will always bring timely help.
fme
QuietShootr
08-10-09, 17:06
What you need before comm gear is a comm plan. Be specific - don't stop at, "Um, I'd like to be able to hear what's going on, I guess, and call for help if I need it." Once you know who you want to hear and who you want to talk to, you can pick gear that best fits the mission.
RF communication can essentially be broken into two types: line-of-sight (LOS) and beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS). Line-of-sight range is usually calculated by the "four-thirds earth rule:" multiply the distance to the visible horizon by 1.333 to approximately predict a radio wave's unobstructed LOS range. Tree foliage, buildings, terrain, etc, will reduce this range somewhat, depending on the radio frequency and power being used.
Options for LOS include FRS, GMRS, MURS, any business band, public service, or amateur radio operating at ~50 MHz and up, and the occasional oddball like eXRS. Virtually anything that can be used while mobile falls into this category. (Note that I'm speaking to the Tactical Communicator audience as QuietShootr defined in his post. There are mobile amateur HF rigs that can communicate BLOS, but not with the reliability that a tactical communicator would expect.) Each of these options has strengths and weaknesses, again depending on what your communication plan is.
Options for reliable BLOS are essentially limited to amateur radio frequencies. Go back and read QuietShootr's post on NVIS for one of the best options. To elaborate on that a little: NVIS only works on frequencies below 7 MHz, and works most reliably below 4 MHz. Although the antennas can be low, they still have to be long - meaning that you can carry a wire antenna with you, but to use it you'll have to stop and set up.
If one is available, you can communicate limited BLOS on amateur VHF/UHF frequencies using a repeater. A repeater in a good location can allow handheld transceivers to communicate over tens of miles, or even farther with multiple repeaters linked together. If you don't own the repeaters, though, you can't necessarily predict whether they will remain serviceable during a SHTF event.
Also, if listening is part of your comm plan, consider a dedicated receiver such as a scanner or shortwave radio. Transceivers do not necessarily have the best general-coverage receivers built in.
A 12V deep-cycle battery or battery bank with a solar charger is the way to go. The solar won't directly power your high-current transmitters, but it will charge your batteries when you're not using them.
One more piece of advice: get your amateur radio license, but be wary of the amateur emergency-communication groups such as ARES, RACES, etc. The personality of each local group is different, but many of them focus on augmenting "served agencies" (Red Cross, FEMA, etc) rather than directly helping their local communities be self-reliant in a disaster situation. Those groups tend to have a lot of wannabe G-men and folks who think keying their mic and giving their location will always bring timely help.
fme
This is pure gold, and absolutely true. For a sample of what you need to stay away from, visit http://www.hamsexy.com/cms/index.php . Ham radio, like guns, tends to attract wannabes and douchebags in incredible numbers. You will do well to limit your interaction with them in person to your actual license test. You think gun shows are bad? Visit a hamfest sometime. One major, and annoying, difference between the two crowds is that hams tend to be junior G-men in a big way - they are some of the biggest whiny complainers on the planet, and tend to some really bizarre behavior. See http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/files/Whitn09_08_07_5111.html or http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/files/Didon09_08_07_5107.html or http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/files/Lovol09_08_07_5109.html .
In re NVIS; fme is absolutely correct on all counts. The most compact antenna you can carry is an end-fed long wire, and the smallest one I've found usable below 4 mHz is around 72 feet. I use 14ga solid THHN, and roll it on a small extension cord reel.
My off-road club uses CB to communicate on the trails or I never would have bought one. I did not think I would ever use it other than that, but it is nice to have while driving. They are great for getting traffic conditions/accident info, getting directions if you are lost, calling for help, or just something to do if you get bored and want to chat with random people.
You can buy them very inexpensively and they work fine if you have it tuned.
faithmyeyes
08-11-09, 11:10
A couple of additional comments -
I want to clarify that my statement regarding ARES et al was not intended to be a blanket indictment of all amateur radio organizations. The largest ARES group in my area, for instance, focuses primarily on severe weather reporting and has an excellent relationship with the National Weather Service. They perform that function well, and only a few of them on the fringe get really rabid about things like FEMA certs and radio e-mail for the Red Cross. But things in some groups really get off in the weeds, and as QuietShootr said, many of the guys who are heavily into it aren't all that well-balanced. Some of them seem to feel like amateur radio is just waiting its turn to save the world, and that it's every operator's sacred and noble duty to be prepared for that day. By the way, who's bringing the beer?
Unfortunately, the ARRL (the amateur radio equivalent of NRA) seems to be in the same boat of pushing for integration with government services and "served agencies." They've co-opted the "hero" angle (When All Else Fails... AMATEUR RADIO (http://emergency-radio.org/communicate.html)) and gone wrong-headed in an attempt to attract membership. So in general, the amateur radio "party line" about what disaster communication looks like is probably quite different that what most self-reliant preppers would find sensible.
There can be some value found in being involved with a local club, though. I've been involved several times when a club has been called on to provide communication support for a community effort like a bike race, marathon, or even an SCCA motorsport event. These events can give you a valuable opportunity to prove your equipment and operating practice in a "real-world" tactical communication scenario.
Furthermore, if you can wade through the BS at some of the club meetings, you may find that the quiet older gentleman sitting against the wall is well worth getting to know. If it's communications or electronics you're interested in, some of those guys have truly been there and done that, with an amazing wealth of experience.
So yeah, understand that the culture can be a little weird, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can be friendly, soak up some valuable tools and techniques, and quietly avoid the Kool-Aid table altogether. Then take home your new knowledge and make it work for you and yours.
And now for something completely different:
My off-road club uses CB
You can buy them very inexpensively and they work fine if you have it tuned.
How useful CB is depends on where and when you are. If you're close to major trucking arteries, you'll get a lot of unwanted signal. Additionally, CB operates on a frequency that is capable at certain times of long-distance skywave propagation or "skip." I can remember having a CB walkie-talkie as a kid and not being able to find a clear channel for all the South American operators.
Be wary of "peaked" or "tuned" CB transceivers, as they have often been modified in a way that makes their operation illegal. Yes, illegal operation is widespread on CB now that operator licenses are no longer required - but we want to be above reproach, don't we?
In an area with less interference, you can communicate over a fairly impressive range with a perfectly legal CB - especially if you have transceivers capable of single-sideband (SSB) operation. SSB into elevated horizontal antennas will work even better. And nobody has to take a test or pay a license fee to run one.
fme
Very good information here. Faith, Quiet and Dave5339 are spot on.
I too have incorporated Ham into my plan/operation. Hoping to upgrade to General sometime in the fall. I too believe the FT 897 is the way to go for the same reasons stated.
Just like ARs, the accessories can expand your radio's capabilities. In addition to the equipment mentioned here, a Yaesu Ft 8800R cross band repeating radio and a simplex repeater can widen your "patrol area"
Some accessories that are worth their weight in gold are "do it yourself" In You can "boost" your 2m VHF radios with a simple J-Pole antenna made of TV twin lead that fits in a tent stake pouch. Trade off is similiar to HF; you'll have to stop and deploy the antenna by haning it in a tree.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/11B4V/DSC04069.jpg
QuietShootr
08-21-09, 16:52
.....
LonghunterCO
08-21-09, 22:00
If anyone's interested, I can expand on this a bit more.
Interested.:)
Outlander Systems
08-23-09, 20:34
Here's what I'm looking for:
1) A base station that can receive/transmit as far as possible without requiring licensing
2) A base station that is mountable in a standard 19" equipment rack
4) Mobile/Handheld units compatible with the main base station
Pretty simple. My relatives all live within a 5-6 mile radius from my house, so it would be nice to stay in contact with them via radio if the main grid ever went down. Obviously, greater ranges would be better, but I have no idea how to even begin going that route.
It seems like CB might work for me, but I know pretty much nothing about the subject, whatsoever.
It would also be nice to be able to hear what's going on in the outside world, if the excrement hit the oscillator. Are there any units out there that offer the capability to receive but not transmit? Is it possible to extend the range of reception without transmission, legally? How?
My needs are pretty basic:
1) Stay in touch with family
2) Monitor beyond my locality
Again, longer distance = better, but I'm starting out from square one. I didn't expect some of the responses received.
I really need some hand-holding on this. Any links for comprehensive information? Any recommended products for my aforementioned list of stuff I'd like to have?
Obviously more range is more desirable, and if licensing isn't extremely high-priced, then it's an avenue I may be interested in.
Consider my perspective to this area being a guy going from a break-action shotgun, and wanting to dive into NFA, showing up in the AR-General Discussion section.
;)
All of this information is VERY interesting, seeing as I am a total idiot with respect to radio communication and such.
A couple of questions:
Where can I go to get a license?
Where can I go to buy some of these receivers/transmitters? How much do they cost?
All of this information is VERY interesting, seeing as I am a total idiot with respect to radio communication and such.
A couple of questions:
Where can I go to get a license?
Where can I go to buy some of these receivers/transmitters? How much do they cost?
http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/examsearch.phtml
Put in your zip and distance and find a test site.
Tech license is quite easy and I think now $15.
Fairly simple HT (handy talkies -what most people think of as walkie talkies) can start around $100-ish.
Base stations can be thousands.
Find a nice simple dual-band HT (VHF/2meter - UHF/70cm) and you're off.
Get a copy of ARRL Repeater Directory and ask questions of people you meet.
Most of them will be happy to answer questions.
A good place from which to purchase is hamcity.com.
They seem to be a little lower in price than most and are very helpful.
BUT- be advised...
This hobby is just as expensive as shootin' irons and can easily be just as addictive. :rolleyes:
Greg
WØGRB
Thanks for the links 11Bravo.
Again, very useful.
How useful are the handheld radios (the "walkies") vs the "base station" style radios? I ask because it would be so convienient to just grab the handheld radio and chuck it into a pack, the other one seems like it would take up much more space. Can I get away with just the smaller one, or should it be used as a supplemental piece of hardware?
HTs are, well, handy.
With output up to maybe 6 watts range is somewhat limited, but bigger antennas tuned to a particular band help with that.
Really, a "system" would be most useful.
Non-mobile, longer range would be a base station.
They can be very heavy and need a lot of juice to run.
Mobile radio in the car.
HT for footborne/ATV/boat ops.
Right now I do not have a base station; I am looking at a 4-band mobile for use at home as opposed to a full-blown base because it's cheaper and takes up less room.
Like anything else, first step is to determine what you are wanting.
If you just want to monitor others a scanner will do you.
If you want short range comms (more than FRS/GMRS* and CB) a (couple) HT(s) will work well.
Want medium range, look at a unit designed for use in vehicles.
Long range? You'll need a base and look for an all-bander.
That'll require licenses beyond the tech but you'll be able to comm intercontinentally.
Literally.
Go to http://www.hamtestonline.com/ and take some sample tests, starting with the tech one.
Go take the test when you're comfortable you'll pass it and start finding out what its all about.
*GMRS legally requires a FCC license; I think $75 each.
For less than $50 you can take all three ham tests and do much more.
PA PATRIOT
08-24-09, 19:52
I use a standard full power Marine Radio and have a eight foot antenna on the roof, in-laws have the same set-up and they are 9.6 miles away. Clear com with none of the chatter a CB has, plus the cost is very low.
I use a standard full power Marine Radio and have a eight foot antenna on the roof, in-laws have the same set-up and they are 9.6 miles away. Clear com with none of the chatter a CB has, plus the cost is very low.
Uh, um, OK, if that works for you, but just a note, use of marine radios for land based comms is illegal.
Just sayin'.
For the needs I have it looks like a HT.
1) "listen" to local radio, including emergency transmissions.
2) Transmit short distances (inside of a city).
As interesting as listening to intercontinental radio transmissions may be (and honestly, it does intrigue me), my needs are more modest. Mabe later a midsized (for my truck) will be purchased. After I have much more, I will get the badass machine.
Does anyone have any suggestions on a good HT? mabe in the $300-$400 range?
$400 will get you about any HT you want; maybe two of them.
Kenwood TH-F6A or Yaesu VX-6R.
If you decide you want to do some APRSing find a good Kenwood TH-D7A.
Yaesu makes the VX-8R but it isn't as capable as the D7.
You'll have to look APRS up, too much to explain here, but it is what got me into ham.
Thanks for the info!! I am really taking a good look at the Yaesu VX-6R. Actually I may be able to afford 2, always good to have a spare, right?
Heavy Metal
08-24-09, 22:06
I like the Yaesu VX-170.
It is built like a brick shit-house and is dirt cheap.
The only downside is where it is waterproof, you need to be closer to the mike to articulate it well.
Here's what I'm looking for:
1) A base station that can receive/transmit as far as possible without requiring licensing
2) A base station that is mountable in a standard 19" equipment rack
4) Mobile/Handheld units compatible with the main base station
Pretty simple. My relatives all live within a 5-6 mile radius from my house, so it would be nice to stay in contact with them via radio if the main grid ever went down. Obviously, greater ranges would be better, but I have no idea how to even begin going that route.
It seems like CB might work for me, but I know pretty much nothing about the subject, whatsoever.
It would also be nice to be able to hear what's going on in the outside world, if the excrement hit the oscillator. Are there any units out there that offer the capability to receive but not transmit? Is it possible to extend the range of reception without transmission, legally? How?
My needs are pretty basic:
1) Stay in touch with family
2) Monitor beyond my locality
Again, longer distance = better, but I'm starting out from square one. I didn't expect some of the responses received.
I really need some hand-holding on this. Any links for comprehensive information? Any recommended products for my aforementioned list of stuff I'd like to have?
Obviously more range is more desirable, and if licensing isn't extremely high-priced, then it's an avenue I may be interested in.
Consider my perspective to this area being a guy going from a break-action shotgun, and wanting to dive into NFA, showing up in the AR-General Discussion section.
;)
the only base stations that your going to be able to use license free are CB and POSSIBLY MURS, depends on your area
i would recommend you look into a GMRS license, they are not very expensive, they cover immediate family, and let you use UHF base stations, with an outside base antennas at each location you should easily be able to communicate those distances...
to extend the range more you could setup (or if there are any in your area, ask permission to use) a GMRS repeater.. but you would ideally need a high-site for it... aka a building, tower, something
a repeater is a pair of radios (a transmitter and a receiver) that operate in full duplex... aka the receiver receives a signal and immediately transmits it out the transmitter on a offset frequency...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeater
you can also make a "simplex" repeater, which uses one radio, to receive, record the transmission onto something (tape, digital recorder etc) and then when its done receiving the transmission, retransmit it on the same frequency... these are great because they can be small, and easily deployed, we use them in our SHTF drills, but they require some patience because only one person can transmit at a time so you have to make sure you dont key up over someone
heres my ham (2M VHF) repeater... its on top of a 550~ft building in downtown miami
http://flecom.fragmachines.com/%5bh%5d/finterview/DSC00324s.JPG
equipment in the cabinet, repeater controller, transmitter, receiver, circulator/isolator panel, power supply (the cabinets next to mine belong to many three letter agencies)
http://flecom.fragmachines.com/%5bh%5d/finterview/DSC00335s.JPG
duplexer/filter
this protects the reciever from the transmitter and vice-versa and allows both radios to connect to the same antenna at the same time and function at the same time...
http://flecom.fragmachines.com/%5bh%5d/finterview/DSC03386.JPG
us mounting the 24' antenna in the middle of the night lol
longest conversation i have heard on it between two people is from key largo to west palm beach... about 100 miles...
QuietShootr
09-05-09, 09:41
.....
QuietShootr
09-05-09, 21:48
.....
Damn!! the terminated, folded dipole is a VERY effective antenna for NVIS. Improv comm shot from vehicle to vehicle (stop, pull into protected area, deploy antenna) was perfect.
Antenna was only 5 feet off the ground.
Do tell, do tell.
QuietShootr
09-20-09, 21:04
A few articles to help explain NVIS:
http://harriscountyares.org/training/training_nvis_01.pdf
http://www.qsl.net/wb5ude/nvis/
http://www.w0ipl.net/ECom/NVIS/nvis.htm
QuietShootr
09-23-09, 21:12
.....
A couple of additional comments -
I want to clarify that my statement regarding ARES et al was not intended to be a blanket indictment of all amateur radio organizations. The largest ARES group in my area, for instance, focuses primarily on severe weather reporting and has an excellent relationship with the National Weather Service. They perform that function well, and only a few of them on the fringe get really rabid about things like FEMA certs and radio e-mail for the Red Cross. But things in some groups really get off in the weeds, and as QuietShootr said, many of the guys who are heavily into it aren't all that well-balanced. Some of them seem to feel like amateur radio is just waiting its turn to save the world, and that it's every operator's sacred and noble duty to be prepared for that day. By the way, who's bringing the beer?
My ARES group does a lot of weather spotting, but it doesn't end there. We work directly for the county 911 and built the county's EMCOMM van for cost of materials. We roll it out whenever any county Public Safety agency requests it and even man the radios if the agency requesting it cannot. We've earned the respect of the Public Agencies we serve and don't tolerate the bozo element.
The FEMA certs you mention are probably the IS100,200, 700 and 800 courses. The reason why it's being pushed is because it's being mandated gradually for everyone working an incident, it's mandatory for First Responders and is tied to FEMA funding. Besides, it's good training even for your own personal or family disaster planning.
Unfortunately, the ARRL (the amateur radio equivalent of NRA) seems to be in the same boat of pushing for integration with government services and "served agencies." They've co-opted the "hero" angle (When All Else Fails... AMATEUR RADIO (http://emergency-radio.org/communicate.html)) and gone wrong-headed in an attempt to attract membership. So in general, the amateur radio "party line" about what disaster communication looks like is probably quite different that what most self-reliant preppers would find sensible.
The problem with this is that the ARRL's Media campaign is factually correct: When the public safety and cell phone towers fall, usually it's the geeky guy with all the radios who can cobble together a few pieces of wire and is able to get messages out at least to the other geeky guys in the next town.
Remember the Falklands war? How about the Grenada before we invaded? The only information anyone had about what was going on during both those crises was from ham radio operators on their respective islands. Same thing happened with Katrina. More than a few agencies who thought HF was a dead mode of communication were schooled during Katrina and it was ham radio that demonstrated the fact it still had use in disasters. I've read more than a few after-action reports from Rita and Katrina where it mentions those same screwball hams who set up in the field, on their own, made a big difference.
There can be some value found in being involved with a local club, though. I've been involved several times when a club has been called on to provide communication support for a community effort like a bike race, marathon, or even an SCCA motorsport event. These events can give you a valuable opportunity to prove your equipment and operating practice in a "real-world" tactical communication scenario.
+100
Furthermore, if you can wade through the BS at some of the club meetings, you may find that the quiet older gentleman sitting against the wall is well worth getting to know. If it's communications or electronics you're interested in, some of those guys have truly been there and done that, with an amazing wealth of experience.
So yeah, understand that the culture can be a little weird, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can be friendly, soak up some valuable tools and techniques, and quietly avoid the Kool-Aid table altogether. Then take home your new knowledge and make it work for you and yours.
All I'm going to say is that the parallels between gunowners and hams is uncanny. Everything you've said about hams could generallay be said about the shooting community as a whole. Remember that.
And now for something completely different:
How useful CB is depends on where and when you are. If you're close to major trucking arteries, you'll get a lot of unwanted signal. Additionally, CB operates on a frequency that is capable at certain times of long-distance skywave propagation or "skip." I can remember having a CB walkie-talkie as a kid and not being able to find a clear channel for all the South American operators.
Be wary of "peaked" or "tuned" CB transceivers, as they have often been modified in a way that makes their operation illegal. Yes, illegal operation is widespread on CB now that operator licenses are no longer required - but we want to be above reproach, don't we?
In an area with less interference, you can communicate over a fairly impressive range with a perfectly legal CB - especially if you have transceivers capable of single-sideband (SSB) operation. SSB into elevated horizontal antennas will work even better. And nobody has to take a test or pay a license fee to run one.
fme
Outlander Systems
09-26-09, 19:02
Stole this "Idiot's Guide" from Jim Rawles' website:
"Amateur Radio for the Rest of Us, by Jim in Illinois
In the modern world, there are few things as critical as the propagation of information. Anytime, day or night, we have access to news, weather, and interpersonal communications. When that information is
unavailable whether due to a misplaced cell phone, internet disruption, or other factor, we begin to panic, feeling cut off and isolated.
When disaster strikes, up to date information could be as vital to your survival as food, shelter, or a means to defend yourself.
We can all make plans for our retreat and relocation, but without a means of contacting one another when the time comes, all we can do is wait and hope that everyone is on their way.
What is amateur radio?
Amateur radio, also known as ham radio, is a service designed for the purpose of intercommunication between individuals whether for casual chatting, emergency preparation, or in the event of an actual emergency. The FCC permits citizens that have proven proficiency in FCC rule and of reasonable technical ability to use this service. To do so, one must pass a written exam and register their information with the FCC to obtain a license. Transmitting on amateur radio bands without a license could subject a person to fines or even imprisonment. However, there is one caveat to this rule. During an emergency, when lives are at risk, anything goes.
The phrase “anything goes” rarely has as much significance as it does in a TEOTWAWKI situation. Now, I am certainly not condoning the unlicensed use of amateur radio. But there may come a time that the only thing between you and rescue is a ham transceiver.
As quoted in the FCC amateur radio rule book:
§97.405 Station in distress.
(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a), of any means of radio communications at its disposal to assist a station in distress.
Note: With that said, I would still encourage anyone making any effort in preparation to seriously consider following the licensing procedure.
Amateur radio signals are capable of traveling thousands of miles, or as short as tens of miles.
There are many factors that will affect the distance your signal will travel.
Some of them include:
Transmit Frequency
Just like with an AM/FM radio, there is a wide spread of radio frequencies that signals can be received on. Common allocations for amateur radio can be found anywhere from 3M MegaHertz (MHz) to well over 440MHz.
Typically the lower frequencies, from 3-30MHz (High Frequency or HF) provide the greatest distance with the least amount of power. This is accomplished by natural phenomena called ‘propagation’, which will be explained later.
VHF 30-300MHz (Very High Frequency) and UHF 300-3000MHz (Ultra High Frequency) offer a very high quality signal for ‘line of site’ distances up to about 50 miles. Police, fire, and private services rely on these frequencies due to the clarity and reliability of communications. FRS/GMRS (Family Radio Service) radios use 460MHz (UHF).
Antenna
In amateur radio, the most important factor is the antenna. An antenna can be as simple as a long piece of wire strung through a tree, or as large as an array of directional antennas hundreds of feet in the air. Just because it’s simple though, doesn’t mean it won’t work. I have talked to a ham in Portugal from my living room in Illinois using nothing more than a piece of wire looped around my ceiling fan.
‘Any’ antenna will work better than ‘no antenna’.
Transmit Power
Transmit power is measured in watts. While amateur radio has a limit of 1,500 Watts, most transceivers will only put out about 50-100 watts. Ideally, the more watts put out, the farther the signal will travel. You must also remember though, the more watts transmitted, the more power the radio consumes. This is something to keep in mind when battery power is in precious demand.
It is generally a good practice to keep output power low when possible, and make up the difference with improvements in your antenna. I have talked to Japan on 5 watts from Illinois. Power isn’t everything.
Propagation
During the day, solar rays charge different layers of the atmosphere which create a reflective barrier for radio waves. As the sun fades for the day, so does our propagation.
Higher frequencies require a higher amount of charged particles. Radio waves that do not bounce are simply absorbed or pass right through. During times of good propagation, it is possible to send very weak signals across the globe.
We can, to an extent, control how far our signal will go by utilizing the three main types of propagation.
Skywave (long skip)
By utilizing an antenna that has a low take off angle, like a vertical antenna or high dipole (like your FM stereo comes with), our signals are directed at the horizon which will hit the atmosphere and bounce back to earth. (The earth is round, remember?)
NVIS (Near Vertical Incidence Skywave)
With a lower dipole antenna or tilted vertical antenna, we increase the angle of the radio waves. Therefore, the waves go up sharply and bounce down much closer.
Groundwave (line of sight)
Line of sight communications solely rely on the receiving station being within a straight line of the sending station. A walkie-talkie is a good example of this. Repeaters, which I will cover below, are often used to increase range of line of site radio equipment. Output power and antenna height greatly improve line-of-sight (LOS) communication.
Setting up a station
When determining what radio equipment will suit your needs, you must first decide on a few things.
How far do I need to communicate?
How portable will I need it to be?
How much can I spend?
VHF/UHF
If you answered the first question with “less than 50 miles”, then you can easily set yourself up with a useable system for under $200. VHF and UHF transceivers are often called 2 meter and 70 centimeter radios, respectively. 2M and 70CM refer to the length of the actual radio wave. 2M operates around 145MHz and 70CM operates around 440MHz.
Handhelds
A handheld unit has the advantage of small size, internal battery pack, and built in antenna. On the other hand, the small size, internal battery pack, and built in antenna is a serious compromise regarding transmit and receive distance. Typical handhelds maximum power output is about 5 watts and the internal battery won’t last long at that power level. The functionality of a handheld unit relies on repeaters. Without a repeater, a handheld would be limited to about 10 miles or less.
A repeater is a transceiver with a very high antenna that receives a signal on one frequency, and retransmits on another, usually at a much higher power. Through the use of repeaters, it is possible to work stations >100 miles away with a walkie-talkie. This may sound like fine business, but repeaters are privately owned and would likely be locked down by the owners, without power, or seized by the government, should society crumble.
Mobiles
Mobile units are designed to be mounted in a vehicle and are powered by 12 volts. Although an external antenna is required, this gives the user the flexibility to decide which antenna works best for them. Most mobile units can produce at least 50 watts and can be reduced to lower power as needed. A base or even portable station can be easily setup using a mobile radio, rechargeable 12 VDC battery, and an antenna placed as high as possible. With careful planning and experimenting, this system can be optimized to reach distances of 50 miles or more, creating an efficient point-to-point communication link.
HF
For nationwide communication, HF is going to be the winner hands down. HF radios are typically capable of more than 100 watts and under good conditions can talk coast to coast and across the ocean. The greater distance is attributed to propagation, as described earlier.
The biggest stumbling block with HF radios is the cost. With a starting price of around $700, most folks will find it very hard to make room in their budget for this.
Another consideration is the antenna. To work efficiently, an antenna should be at least ¼ wavelength long. Depending on the frequency, this could be anywhere between 10’ to well over 60’. But as stated before, any antenna is better than no antenna.
Conclusion
Undoubtedly, whether your plans are staying or relocating, reliable communications will be a must for you and your group. This article is written as a primer into amateur radio and to simplify what can seem to be an overwhelming step of preparedness. There are hundreds of volumes written on the subject, and I would encourage anyone serious about prepping to research further.
I really can’t stress enough that you should take the time now to get licensed and work out any problems before they occur."
Links:
www.arrl.org Find testing locations and just about anything else ham-related.
www.qrz.com Take online practice tests for amateur radio exams
HiggsBoson
09-26-09, 21:30
@Landlord:Thanks for the info, and the thought-provoking post.
I recently bought (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014TCU9K/ref=nosim/?tag=etoncorpo-20) two Etón FR1000 Voicelink FR-1000 (http://www.etoncorp.com/product_card/?p_ProductDbId=321378) radios. They are portable but not pocket-sized. I plan to get the license to use it legally, though almost no one seems to do so. I also intend to find a few decent quality handhelds to go with them and include those in my go-bag. These units are pretty sturdy, and not the typical all-in-one device that breaks in a week.
* 22 GMRS (General Mobile Radio System)/FRS (Family Radio System) channels
* 121 privacy codes (38 CTCSS / 83 DCS)
* AM/FM receiver
* VOX (Voice operated transmission)
* NOAA weather radio and NOAA weather alert
* Siren and Flashlight
* Can be powered from four different sources:
o Rechargeable Ni-MH battery (built-in)
o Dynamo crank alone
o 4 “AA” batteries
o AC Adapter (included)
* Cell-phone charging jack
Here's what the FCC has to say about range of different short-distance radio types:
* FRS - range less than one mile
* CB - range 1 to 5 miles
* GMRS - range 5 to 25 miles
This is, obviously, under ideal conditions, and with fairly high (>2watt for GMRS) power output . In hilly terrain, bad weather, and/or lower power conditions, the laws of physics take over. ;) So fairly short distance, but probably good enough for most of my intended purposes.
While I'm interested in HAM for longer distances, I don't think it is going to be right for me. The hardware, time, and licensure requirements are much greater, so it will have to be back-burnered until I take care of other priorities.
Heavy Metal
09-26-09, 21:53
The hardware, time, and licensure requirements are much greater,
You just think it is.
Two weeks can get you your technician liscense and $500 can get you a good 2meter mobile and two good 2M HT's+an Antenna for the Mobile.
http://www.gigaparts.com/store.php?action=profile&sku=zys-ft-2800
http://www.gigaparts.com/store.php?action=profile&sku=ZYS-FT-270R
Add about $70 for a good 1/2 wave mobile antenna. I like Larsen myself.
You are still well under $500. This does not have to be an expensive hobby unless you make it one.
QuietShootr
09-26-09, 21:58
@Landlord:Thanks for the info, and the thought-provoking post.
I recently bought (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014TCU9K/ref=nosim/?tag=etoncorpo-20) two Etón FR1000 Voicelink FR-1000 (http://www.etoncorp.com/product_card/?p_ProductDbId=321378) radios. They are portable but not pocket-sized. I plan to get the license to use it legally, though almost no one seems to do so. I also intend to find a few decent quality handhelds to go with them and include those in my go-bag. These units are pretty sturdy, and not the typical all-in-one device that breaks in a week.
* 22 GMRS (General Mobile Radio System)/FRS (Family Radio System) channels
* 121 privacy codes (38 CTCSS / 83 DCS)
* AM/FM receiver
* VOX (Voice operated transmission)
* NOAA weather radio and NOAA weather alert
* Siren and Flashlight
* Can be powered from four different sources:
o Rechargeable Ni-MH battery (built-in)
o Dynamo crank alone
o 4 “AA” batteries
o AC Adapter (included)
* Cell-phone charging jack
Here's what the FCC has to say about range of different short-distance radio types:
* FRS - range less than one mile
* CB - range 1 to 5 miles
* GMRS - range 5 to 25 miles
This is, obviously, under ideal conditions, and with fairly high (>2watt for GMRS) power output . In hilly terrain, bad weather, and/or lower power conditions, the laws of physics take over. ;) So fairly short distance, but probably good enough for most of my intended purposes.
While I'm interested in HAM for longer distances, I don't think it is going to be right for me. The hardware, time, and licensure requirements are much greater, so it will have to be back-burnered until I take care of other priorities.
There's no way in hell you're going to get even 3 miles out of a GMRS handheld if you're talking to another handheld.
In re ARES:
http://www.hamsexy.com/ARES1.jpg
HiggsBoson
09-26-09, 23:33
I appreciate the additional info, HeavyMetal, and after spending more time in this thread and elsewhere, I do intend to move toward HAM when I have more time and money to invest, but I still think my point is valid. I have very little initial investment (in time or $$) and I am already using a system that works moderately well, albeit not in the longer distances I would prefer.
There's no way in hell you're going to get even 3 miles out of a GMRS handheld if you're talking to another handheld.
Agreed and understood. Hence my comment about the laws of physics... I'm intending the handhelds only as supplementary to the larger units I already have. The higher-wattage units get more distance, especially with a larger antenna, and I have two of them for the two places with which I feel the need to communicate. I am also going to have handhelds to be rapidly portable in case I need to hoof it. Much like I did with firearms, in buying and learning a reliable pistol before I got into carbines, I am making comms purchases based on the time and $$ commitment I feel like I can make at the current time. Having GMRS today is better than planning to invest in HAM and not having anything in hand. Now that I have it, I can spend a few months researching HAM and learning about it. When I feel like I know enough to make an informed purchase that will meet my needs, only then will I take that step.
As with every time I post in this wonderful forum, I mostly just learn how much I have yet to learn. This is why I'm in this thread, after all. To bounce ideas and to learn.
03humpalot
09-27-09, 08:19
Juyst revieved this via email and thought i would share. What do the comm guru's here think about this particular radio?
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=572929
HiggsBoson
09-27-09, 09:03
That's a GMRS radio (more info about that model here (http://www.amazon.com/Midland-GXT720VP3-2-Way-30-Mile-36-Channel/dp/B0015ADLIC)), so you can see by their replies to my GMRS-related posting above what QuietShootr thinks of GMRS. In other words, their claims about the expected distances (http://www.popularwireless.com/gmrsrange.html), especially for handhelds, are far over-blown. Here's a page (http://thetravelinsider.info/2003/0815.htm) where they did some reviews of GMRS devices to objectively test their claims. It doesn't look promising, especially in urban areas, or heavy terrain with thick vegetation. The best model they tested required an external antenna on both devices and "managed to communicate an incredible 6.15 miles, with 4.7 of those miles being over land and only 1.45 miles being over water."
As shown in one of the links I provided, the main factors in determining the distance the signal travels are:
- The output power of the radio.
- The height of the transmitting and receiving antenna[s]
- The position of the antenna relative to the Earth. (horizontal or vertical)
- The terrain and vegetation.
As HeavyMetal suggested, you might be better off saving your money and investing in a decent HAM setup. However, I decided that I'd start with a GMRS device and then move on to something more robust later. Just don't expect the thing to get 30 miles. That's not at all likely.
Juyst revieved this via email and thought i would share. What do the comm guru's here think about this particular radio?
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=572929
QuietShootr
09-27-09, 09:33
.....
QuietShootr
09-27-09, 09:40
.....
Juyst revieved this via email and thought i would share. What do the comm guru's here think about this particular radio?
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=572929
It's probably a FRS/GMRS combination radio. Using a GMRS repeater, yes. 30 miles one way using an HT? Nope.
Heavy Metal
09-27-09, 11:58
Conversely, I've used a handheld running 500mw from the cabin of an aircraft at 700 feet to talk to a repeater with an antenna at 50ft over 70 miles away, with a good enough signal to activate the repeater's autopatch (a phone connection) and make a phone call.
I was hiking the AT a couple of weeks ago and was at 4100ft ASL on the Southern rim of Burkes Garden on the Tazewell/Bland Co VA border.
I worked a guy in Winston Salem NC on a half-watt on a VX-170 with a rubber duck antenna(not factory but a 3rd party upgrade. The factory would still have worked fine).
The repeater was in Sparta and was on a freq I had saved in the radio for Charleston,WV and I was curious where it was to be so strong(and by the calls, it was obviously in '4' Land where CH, WV is '8' Land).
The repeater was 40 miles away and the fellow on the otheer end was 90 miles from my location as measured on Google Earth.
1/2 Watt and five by five signal.
There is no substitute for elevation.
03humpalot
09-27-09, 12:20
Roger that,thanks much guys.
Quietshooter...which frequency range would you suggest for communicating in a heavily wooded area?
From your link above.
1.)VHF 150-162 MHz (VX-424)
2.)VHF 162-174 MHz (VX-424)
There's no way in hell you're going to get even 3 miles out of a GMRS handheld if you're talking to another handheld.
In re ARES:
http://www.hamsexy.com/ARES1.jpg
It appears to me that the guy who runs hamsexy.com has a real hardon for ARES/RACES and amateurs in general, especially if he has to resort to really bad photoshopped images to make his point. All he's doing is painting bad bad picture for all of us, not just the bozos.
Heavy Metal
09-27-09, 12:43
Roger that,thanks much guys.
Quietshooter...which frequency range would you suggest for communicating in a heavily wooded area?
From your link above.
1.)VHF 150-162 MHz (VX-424)
2.)VHF 162-174 MHz (VX-424)
1 will be slightly better but the two are so close together, there will be little practical difference.
K.L. Davis
09-27-09, 16:28
I have to admit... beyond using this stuff, I was never much of a commo guy - I want to get a handheld/portable/rover and have seen this brand a lot shopping the internet...
I have never heard the name before, is it a good brand? Why not get one? Run like hell? Please share what you know...
QuietShootr
09-27-09, 20:00
I have to admit... beyond using this stuff, I was never much of a commo guy - I want to get a handheld/portable/rover and have seen this brand a lot shopping the internet...
I have never heard the name before, is it a good brand? Why not get one? Run like hell? Please share what you know...
Which brand, sir?
QuietShootr
09-27-09, 20:07
1 will be slightly better but the two are so close together, there will be little practical difference.
Agreed, except that I'd go for 1 ALSO because the higher range is almost exclusively mil/govt freqs, so I'd be a little more cautious about freebanding in there.
Really, your best buy is the VX-8. It'll do all that and more, and it's under 400 bones.
HiggsBoson
09-27-09, 20:11
Which brand, sir?
According to his post title, the brand is: Wouxun (http://www.wouxun.com/)
They're a Chinese manufacturer of two-ways.
QuietShootr
09-27-09, 22:02
According to his post title, the brand is: Wouxun (http://www.wouxun.com/)
They're a Chinese manufacturer of two-ways.
Never heard of them. I ask you this, though - would you order a gun from Hoo Flung Poo and trust it to save your ass?
HiggsBoson
09-28-09, 07:27
Never heard of them. I ask you this, though - would you order a gun from Hoo Flung Poo and trust it to save your ass?
Well, it wasn't me asking it was Mr. Davis. However, if I were going to judge based on the name, I probably wouldn't trust a foreign-sounding name like "Yaesu" either, but people here seem to think highly of them. To go back to your firearms metaphor: if I had never heard of "Fabrique Nationale de Herstal" and I only knew they were Belgian, I might not trust them either. Sounds French or something.
Heavy Metal
09-28-09, 08:36
However, if I were going to judge based on the name, I probably wouldn't trust a foreign-sounding name like "Yaesu" either, but people here seem to think highly of them.
That is because Yaesu is a highly-regarded company with an excellent reputation built up by decades of sales and service. Would you trust a foreign-sounding name like Sony?
HiggsBoson
09-28-09, 09:11
That is because Yaesu is a highly-regarded company with an excellent reputation built up by decades of sales and service. Would you trust a foreign-sounding name like Sony?
Point taken. Though I'm no longer a fan of Sony either, it's because of their design and corporate choices, not their manufacturing quality. Also, there's generally a world of difference between Japanese (or South Korean) electronics and those from China.
According to his post title, the brand is: Wouxun (http://www.wouxun.com/)
They're a Chinese manufacturer of two-ways.
I've been a ham for 18 years and working in telecom for 14. I've never heard of Wouxun.
From looking at their website, I doubt they're FCC type certified. They seem to be gunning for the Asian market.
QuietShootr
09-28-09, 20:49
Agreed.
Folks, you can trust Yaesu. Funny name, but they've been making good comm equipment since the Emperor was a mess cook. They tend more toward ruggedized gear than some of the other mfrs.
QuietShootr
09-28-09, 20:54
.....
Heavy Metal
09-28-09, 21:56
And I might add that Yaesu/Vertex Sandard is now owned by an American company by the name of Motorola.
QuietShootr
10-03-09, 11:12
Anyone interested in an M4Carbine HF net?
Heavy Metal
10-03-09, 11:32
Mabey when I get my General Ticket. I am holding back cuz if I get it, I will go spend money on a new radio.
Outlander Systems
10-03-09, 20:08
What's the maximum wattage output for an unlicensed operator?
ColdDeadHands
10-03-09, 20:13
What's the maximum wattage output for an unlicensed operator?
I might be wrong but I'm thinking 0. That being said, how many people have a license for using walkie talkies?
Outlander Systems
10-03-09, 20:25
Fair enough.
From what I've seen the Yaesu handhelds are like ARs; infinitely user-customisable.
I wouldn't mind diving headfirst into the Amateur Operator world, but I'm beyond ignorant.
Does anyone have any recommendations for a good home/starter setup?
Anyone want to provide pictures, info, etc. on their personal setup, why you chose it, etc.?
Aside from the lack of experience, the initial startup cost is relatively high. I would hate to get a rig that would quickly be outgrown, but I'd also hate to get a rig that is the bee's knees, that's beyond my needs.
Browsing eBay, it looks as though these things hold up extremely well, and have an excellent service life. So it might be advantageous to procure the best setup I can afford, since it should be a long-term investment.
I also need to check my neighborhood's covenants to see if I can get away with roof-mounting. One of my neighbors has a ~25' flag pole with Old Glory and the Marine Corps flag in his front yard, so I'm thinking my new neighborhood might be pretty cool. If worse comes to worse, I'm at the end of the cul-de-sac, with woods behind me, so I may be able to use a tree.
ETA: Does this qualify as radio porn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCGrDlBQ1bY
Mabey when I get my General Ticket. I am holding back cuz if I get it, I will go spend money on a new radio.
Same same here.
QuietShootr
10-04-09, 11:57
.....
QuietShootr
10-04-09, 12:06
..
...
Heavy Metal
10-04-09, 12:08
I found a mod at eham that fixes my one complaint with my 2 VX-170's:
Owners of a VX-170, like myself, will experience low mic gain and modulation due to the waterproof membrane over the microphone which attenuates your voice. Often times it's necessary to "eat the mic" to get decent audio gain.
While some suggest disassembly and removing the membrane (which compromises the water resistance) there is another way to resolve this by adjusting the TX deviation in the Service Menu.
I have personally done this and the difference is huge. I am able to speak comfortably at a distance of 5 to 6 inches, whereas before, I had to speak loudly and "eat the mic".
I have confirmed I do not splatter wider than ~15 KHz, it's my understanding that the TX deviation is set to ~2.4 KHz and this adjustment sets it more closely to at/below ~5 KHz.
To do this:
Press and hold the PTT and MONI switches on the side of the VX-170 while turning the radio on. Once on, release PTT and MONI.
Press the [UP (MHz)], then [0 (SET)], then [2 (CODE)], then [2 (CODE)], then [MR (SKIP)].
If successful, the LCD will say SETRST. If not, turn the HT off and try again.
Tune to 146.050 MHz and set the TX power to LOW.
Hit the [F] key, then keep hitting the [MR] key until A03 appears in the top left of the LCD, it's in a small font, not the main display font. Turn the outer dial until the reading is set to DEV.3FH, the first means Deviation, the second is a HEX number that will change when you rotate the knob. Once set to DEV.3FH hit the PTT then the [F] key to save it. Turn off the radio and you're done.
And it works. Why they didn't do that at the factory is beyond me.
Outlander Systems
10-04-09, 19:53
Does anyone recommend a retailer for kit. Since Grant doesn't deal in Amateur Radio, I figure there's got to be someone out there that's got good CS and is reputable.
Does anyone recommend a retailer for kit...snip
I really like www.hamcity.com.
I've placed 3 or 4 orders with them and they were quickly delivered.
On a couple of occassions I've called or e-mailed them.
If you call you get a person and whomever I talked to was helpful and friendly.
E-mails were the same.
And their prices seem just a tad lower than other places on everything I've ordered.
The 3 radios were all $10 less, but hey, ten bucks is ten bucks.
I have pointed members of my ham club to them and have only heard good things from them as well.
Outlander Systems
10-04-09, 20:40
Thanks for the link.
The more I am looking into this the cooler it gets.
QuietShootr
10-04-09, 21:25
.....
Outlander Systems
10-04-09, 22:27
Costly ain't no joke.
I'm trying to figure out how I can afford a Yaesu FT-950, DMU-2000, an antenna, and any other goodies I may require.
The only thing that chaps my ass is that none of the base units are rack-mountable.
How long is the Technician license valid for? Any good on-line study guides?
License term is 10 years and I think they automatically renew; not sure as I've only had mine 2 years.
Actually no cost for the license (except vanity calls), you pay for the test.
I just repeatedly took the practice tests at www.hamtestonline.com until I was comfortable enough that I would pass with no more than one or two wrong.
Think you can miss 9.
Technician Test Tips
Emergency calls ALWAYS have priority
Emergency calls can be made by anyone using any communications technology available
Wavelength in meters equals 300 divided by frequency in Mega-Hertz (l = 300/f)
Voltage is in units of Volts and is measured by a voltmeter
Current is in units of Amperes (Amps) and is measured by an ammeter
Resistance is in units of Ohms and is measured by, you guessed it, an ohmeter
Voltage equals Current (Amps) times Resistance (Ohms) (V = I * R)
I remember it with VAXO: Volts = Amps X Ohms
Power is in unit of watts
Power (Watts) equals Voltage times Current (Amps) (P = V * I)
Milli means 0.001 (one one thousandth)
Kilo means 1,000 Mega means 1,000,000
Micro means one, one-millionth
One meter is 100 centimeters
One meter is about 40 inches
Morse code is referred to as "CW"
US amateur call signs start with A, K, N and W
US amateur call signs contain a single digit between 0 and 9
A quarter-wavelength antenna is one-fourth of the wavelength in size
A half-wavelength antenna is one-half of the wavelength in size
Select answers containing "Part 97"
Select answers containing "Internet"
Select answers containing "Emergency"
Select answers containing "CW" or "CW only"
Select answers containing "United State Postal Service"
QuietShootr
10-05-09, 05:56
.....
QuietShootr
10-11-09, 00:10
Anyone who's up, call CQ M4Carbine on 3927....
QuietShootr
10-11-09, 20:03
75 is open, if anyone's around.....
QuietShootr, I would like to see some pictures.
I am trying to figure out how to do a man portable radio solution.
I have not convinced my relatives to become hams so I am not sure how this is going to fit into my preps.
Costly ain't no joke.
I'm trying to figure out how I can afford a Yaesu FT-950, DMU-2000, an antenna, and any other goodies I may require.
The only thing that chaps my ass is that none of the base units are rack-mountable.
How long is the Technician license valid for? Any good on-line study guides?
I saw an NIB Alinco 160-6 HF all mode for $350 OBO at a swap meet. I got a Yaesu FT880 UHF/VHF mobile yesterday for $150 and a Icom TH7 for $100. Deals are out there if you look around.
If you're talking 19" rack mount, the reason is few people want ham rigs that big. Some of the top-of-the-line Ten Tec and Yaesu products might fit your bill, however, if you just gotta have a boatanchor.
Ham licenses are good for 10 years and you can renew online.
QuietShootr
11-01-09, 21:57
QuietShootr, I would like to see some pictures.
I am trying to figure out how to do a man portable radio solution.
I have not convinced my relatives to become hams so I am not sure how this is going to fit into my preps.
I'll take some from an upcoming field day very soon. I think you'll find them informative.
QuietShootr
11-12-09, 21:58
Anyone in the hurricane area have 80m capability?
I use AES (www.aesham.com) and R&L Electronics, primarily.
Ask if you have questions before you pull the trigger on something....we can keep you from buying a DPMS or a Tacpoint, you know?
Just an example of what you can do: Tonight, I just talked to a net that reaches from Omaha, NE to south Alabama, and everyone on the net in between (East tennessee, Georgia, and Iowa) was able to communicate clearly with me. Before that, I went out and practiced setting up the field rig, and contacted my friends in northern and southern Indiana with no problems. And no dependence on external infrastructure.
Love it.
What region are you in? you dont have to give your address but this post would have greater impact if we knew where it originated.
QuietShootr
11-21-09, 17:25
.....
I have not checked this thread since I tagged it. Man it has some great stuff in it!
QuietShootr
11-30-09, 19:33
.....
Shadow_otw
12-01-09, 09:49
What is the typical range of a Yaesu hand held?
Heavy Metal
12-06-09, 13:59
Laughs at Snow!!!!!
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs076.snc3/14349_106798002664395_100000025861897_176953_7375983_n.jpg
1. Anyone tested lately to get their ham license?
Just wondering if there are any new hams here.
2. Anyone do sat comms?
Thinking on getting one of these with Christmas money-
http://arrowantennas.com/146-437.html
if I can just get over the pre-buyer's remorse.
Would come in handy foxhunting/RDFing also which I've found I kind of like doing.
Greg
WØGRB
QuietShootr
12-26-09, 23:15
.....
QuietShootr
01-02-10, 23:45
.....
I ordered the antenna and an offset attenuator.
Hope the big brown truck shows up sometime next week and get to try it out.
Have to get my general and try out HF maybe.
Edit: Got the stuff but have been in the middle of a mini-blizzard here so haven't gotten out to try it.
Ga Shooter
02-17-10, 11:40
OK. I tagged this a while back but finally just got around to reading all the pages. Much like Navigating Collapse I am coming into this blind as a baby sewer rat. I will list out what I want/need for my setup if it is possible or you can tell me what I need. Some of my expectations may be unrealistic but here is my list. I live in Savannah, GA, which is on the coast. We are hurricane prone. My bug out location is about 90 miles inland and heavily wooded. I have family that I would want to communicate with in Birmingham, AL and Central, IL as well as the bug out location and home. In case of TEOTWAWKI I would like TC between hand helds up to 30 miles. Would the base unit need to be up and running for the hand units to be operational? Can you tap a hand unit into the base for very long distance ( hand held relayed through base in bug out to communicate to AL?) I am very interested in the 6' pole portable set up but I do not understand at all. Please help. Thanks.
ETA: I also would like to be able to listen to local Police/Military/Aviation/Fire/EMS etc.
QuietShootr
02-19-10, 11:23
.....
Ga Shooter
02-19-10, 11:58
Thank you for the reply. Please forgive my ignorance but let me see if I understand. If I purchase a Yaesu FT897D along with
Antenna tuner
High-current 12v power supply (23A or more)
Cable and some basic antenna devices (baluns in a few different flavors, etc.)
and VX170's or Vx812's I can expect to be able to talk to people over the US with the base unit and talk between HT's up to a couple of miles. The HT's will communicate with base at same distance. Where does th 6' diapole come into play? What license do I need? You also mentioned a modifiaction to increase frequency range where do I find out about this?
QuietShootr
02-19-10, 22:39
.....
Ga Shooter
02-22-10, 08:31
Thanks for the info. It looks like there is only $100.00 diff. in the price and for that I would want the ability to add internal batteries. I have started reading code97 to prepare for the test. I am sure that I will have more questions as I get into this more. It looks like this will be a lot of fun but I am way behind on the learning curve. Do I have to have a Tech license before I get a General license or can I go straight for General? It will take me a couple of months to get up to speed and set up. Please stay tuned for further questions.
QuietShootr
02-22-10, 11:55
.....
Ga Shooter
02-22-10, 12:10
I was talking about just $100.00 in the price of the unit itself. I can always buy the acces. later to make that part functional right? Or do I have to buy all of it upfront? Thanks for the link. I tried the Technician and passed General not yet. Do you know where I can find a test facility?
The back pack portable rig sounds fascinating, especially for emergencies. As far as external power source, could you make up a cable with, say, battery clamps on the end and carry that in the pack, then just clip it onto a car battery or tractor, snowmobile, whatever? So long as the voltage/amperage was within the proper spectrum.
faithmyeyes
03-16-10, 12:05
I'm coming late to your post, but I thought I'd add my $0.02.
I live in Savannah, GA, which is on the coast. We are hurricane prone. My bug out location is about 90 miles inland and heavily wooded. I have family that I would want to communicate with in Birmingham, AL and Central, IL as well as the bug out location and home.
You need to know that there is no simple way to do this reliably. An HF radio is capable of the distance, but due to the many factors that affect signal propagation you won't be able to count on one frequency working among all your locations at any given time. An HF communication solution for your scenario won't be "set and forget" unless you have tens of thousands or more to spend on a station. Here's my thoughts on your scenario:
Don't get too narrowly focused on HF radio. You might not have to resort to HF radio if there is some telephone or Internet capability intact, even if it's sporadic. Craft your plan to use the best available option, taking all options into account.
In your worst-case scenario, minimize the the need for long-distance communication. It needs to be OK if you can't get through more than once a day at a pre-arranged time, or better yet, once a week. In that scenario you'll likely have more pressing issues than phoning home anyway.
Have one person in each location become a communications expert. It's that person's job to get a General or Extra class Amateur Radio license, and learn as much as they can about the many ways to communicate in Amateur Radio, then set up and test their ideas pre-disaster. There's no neatly-wrapped foolproof solution for this scenario, so having people who understand comms and radio well enough to improvise, adapt, and repair if necessary will be essential.
Plan on an HF radio in each central location. You might consider the ICOM IC-7000, Yaesu FT-897, Kenwood TS-2000, and a couple others... but you shouldn't need to spend more than $1500 or so per radio. A modern 100 watt transmitter like the ones I mentioned will need a 12V DC power source capable of 20+ amps continuous (when transmitting). Good deep-cycle batteries work fine, just make sure you have a way of charging them off-grid.
You'll need enough antenna feeder (coaxial cable or twin-lead) to get from your radio to your antenna, and you'll need an antenna - possibly more than one. Wire-dipole type antennas are probably your best option for HF, but what works best will depend on the terrain at your location, what you have to hang the antenna(s) on, etc. HF antennas are generally not portable, and the ones that are make a major trade-off in efficiency. There's no way to tell whether a hypothetical set-up will be "good enough" for you without actually trying it, so buy an ARRL Antenna Book for each of your comm experts and set them to work.
Be aware that extremely narrow-bandwidth modes like CW (Morse Code) and data modes like PSK31 can sometimes be effective when a voice signal can't get through. Having the equipment and skills to use those modes gives you more options.
In case of TEOTWAWKI I would like TC between hand helds up to 30 miles. Would the base unit need to be up and running for the hand units to be operational?
Handhelds operate on VHF and UHF frequencies, which require a near-line-of-sight signal path. The only way you'll be able to get 30 miles is to have a repeater in an elevated location or on a tower (how high depends on the terrain). Same-band duplex repeaters like those run by many local amateur radio clubs and those used by public-service agencies are expensive to set up and can be fiddly to maintain. However, cross-band and simplex repeaters are much less expensive, with the trade-off of being more fiddly to use. The differences take some explaining, so I won't go into all of it here.
Keep in mind that everyone who wants to use a system like this needs an appropriate license. For Amateur Radio, a Technician license will suffice for VHF/UHF. You aren't going to be able to do much beyond low-power line-of-sight (a few miles or less depending on equipment and terrain) with any handheld that doesn't require a license.
Can you tap a hand unit into the base for very long distance ( hand held relayed through base in bug out to communicate to AL?)
Yes, it's possible to set up a system that will repeat VHF/UHF signals from a handheld onto an HF frequency. There's different ways of doing it. Check out Kenwood's "Sky Command" for one example.
ETA: I also would like to be able to listen to local Police/Military/Aviation/Fire/EMS etc.
Most modern HF radios and handhelds offer extended receive coverage (they can receive frequencies outside the amateur radio bands). If this is something you want to do a lot of, though, or if your local agencies use digital or trunking systems, you'll probably want a dedicated scanning receiver.
If I can clarify or be of further help, just reply here or shoot me a PM.
cheers
FME
Atticus Rex
04-20-10, 11:31
2Meter VHF Ham is the way to go.
Yep. I have a Yaesu FT60r and the AA clamshell and at least 16 batteries on me and the original lithium charged battery. In that radio are programmed all the local, regional and even some national freqs like NOAA. I've also "modified" my radio to allow me to communicate on stations beyond my licensure (ie., sheriff, ems, SAR, etc.) which is lawful to do if life is on the line. I'm in my local county's search and rescue unit and I know where to listen when SHTF and civil order is lost locally. I also have a separate handheld scanner and batteries in my go bag as backup just to listen.
And in most disasters, if you know what to listen for and you have the means to listen in on what's happening, that's all you need...not real need to talk back mostly unless you're part of a unit providing comms.
Also, if you're in an area that has CERT training, go get certified and keep in the loop so you can be a hero in your neighborhood and be an asset to local government when the time comes if you can.
Sadly, in most survival type topics on various forums I belong to, communications are grossly overlooked. Without being plugged in, paranoia runs amok...(see Stephen King's 'The Mist')
Flight-ER-Doc
04-25-10, 10:44
Folks, I just read this thread, and I've got to say one thing.
Damn, it's good to work with professionals....This is the most NO-BS disaster thread I've ever seen. No FCC Junior SWAT aholes threatening doom and gloom, no nonsense.
I've been involved in comms for a long time...I actually started with a professional FCC license (third class) and moved up to a first phone, and using radios in the military, long before I got my ham ticket (extra, now). The analysis here is spot on, in modes, equipment, and the attitude of some 'ham helper' groups.
NVIS is good, as stated. One thing to keep in mind though is that even an entire bag full of commo tricks may not work if the ether fairys are against us. NVIS, HF, ALE, meteor, moonbounce, all work sometimes, and sometimes nothing at all will work.
Also, there are several questions along the lines of 'what do I need to go x miles?". Alas, there's no magic formula that you can use to figure that out. There are a LOT of variables, the power output of the transmitter(s), the sensitivity of the receiver(s), the elevations above sea level and above average ground height) of the antennas, the terrain you're transmitting over, the frequencies you can use, the condition of the coax connecting the antennas and radios, the efficiency of the antennas, and the mentioned ether fairys all have a say.
Just adding more power isn't a guarantee, neither is a really good antenna, but I'd spend more money and time on a good antenna than a bigger transmitter.
And much like buying a new gun, when you should include the cost of the accessories you need (optics, mags, sling, spare parts, cleaning gear, ammo, etc) in the price of the gun, there are spares you should get when you buy a new radio - especially handhelds. I always get a higher capacity rechargeable battery and quick charger, a battery case that takes AA batteries, a spare (higher performance) portable antenna (the Diamonds are pretty good), an adapter to allow using the HT on a vehicle antenna (if I don't have one already), a speaker-mic, a belt case (not hook, something that actually provides protection) and if it uses it, programming software and a cable (unless you really have time to program 200+ channels with freq, offset, tone, alpha one letter at a time, etc).
I've used ham radios from the 4 main manufacturers (Icom, Yaesu, Kenwood, Alinco). These days I prefer the Yaesu, but it's a toss-up with Icom. I've had to send radios back to the factory for service, and both Icom and Yaesu were top notch and fast, Kenwood was mainly incompetent and took 6 months to resolve the issue. Alinco is very hit and miss.
In addition to the FT-897, I also like the FT-857. Same capabilities but a lot smaller form factor, it's about the size of a 2meter mobile. Add a separate battery pack and you've got a nice size radio.
And if you want a near bullet-proof HF radio, an Icom Marine SSB radio is great...as is anything from Motorola/Mobat like the Micom series. Good for beginners, too: You put in a frequency and talk on it (or not). Hard to screw up directions like set channel 24.
And while the B&W antennas are great (you can buy just the antenna for around $300), I did some testing one day with a B&W and a G5RV (purchased for $50, or you can make your own) and couldn't see any appreciable difference at distances from 20 to 500 miles.
QuietShootr
04-25-10, 20:59
.....
QuietShootr
04-25-10, 21:00
I ordered the antenna and an offset attenuator.
Hope the big brown truck shows up sometime next week and get to try it out.
Have to get my general and try out HF maybe.
Edit: Got the stuff but have been in the middle of a mini-blizzard here so haven't gotten out to try it.
Any new updates?
QuietShootr
04-25-10, 21:02
.....
Random things to add for you new guys:
When you fill out your license application, use a PO Box. Otherwise, you've just provided every douche bag who is interested in it a map to your house and the fact that you own expensive comms gear. If you haven't already done it, GET a PO box and change your license address to it.
This can prevent theft, as well as post-teotwawki problems, as well as pissed off local ham douchebags showing up and pinning your coax one night.
Good general precaution to take.
Never thought of this
Any new updates?
No, not yet.
Just plain got to doing other thigs and haven't done it yet; that and it seems that the good passes are always at 3:00 in the morning.
Was in the DC area last week and intended to try to do direct sat comms to a guy back here but never had the chance; too many things to do in a short time.
builtf0rdtough
05-05-10, 11:41
I agree with the CB's. i have one and there are plenty of people who have them. tho they only work for a bout a mile or so.
QuietShootr
05-14-10, 23:23
.....
Hi folks.
Just for a moment lets consider that we are not talking about "natural disaster". Lets consider the possibility of an event that is entirely man made. For instance some sort of an EMP device. No this does not need to be a nuke. Or the possibility of trying to operate in an environment full of high power intentional RF noise (jamming). Do not forget the need to develop visual comms skills. Semaphore with the use of binoculars will allow you to communicate in any clear line of sight environment. Morse code via flashing light can be used over longer ranges even over the horizon if the light source is powerful enough to light up a cloud. These forms of communication are also much more secure than broadcasting your plans or intentions on the air waves. Morse code can almost be considered secure because the military (USN excluded) doesn't even teach it to their radio men anymore.
I only say these things to give you something to think about... just saying is all..
Vince
QuietShootr
05-29-10, 13:25
.....
QuietShootr
05-29-10, 15:16
.....
tracker722
05-30-10, 11:06
********************
QuietShootr
05-30-10, 20:21
.....
Thomas M-4
06-09-10, 06:50
Nice set up Quietshootr!
faithmyeyes
06-22-10, 11:15
I successfully created a bracket to mount my FT897D and AT897+ tuner in my truck, and made a hitch ball mount for the MS116/117 military whip antenna. I added 3M detachable fastener to the top of my radio and the bottom of my digital interface so they would mount together, and added my netbook.
Voila. Mobile digital HF. I made my first mobile digital contact on (PSK31) 20m to Killeen, TX this morning, using only 20 watts. No, I wasn't driving, I had someone else do that.
Digital is really the way to go for more sure communication. It will get through when voice won't.
What's been your experience with the SignaLink USB interface? It looks like an elegant solution, especially for laptop users with noisy internal audio, but you're the first I've seen actually using one.
QuietShootr
06-22-10, 11:28
.....
QuietShootr
06-29-10, 20:07
.....
QuietShootr
07-03-10, 23:14
.....
The farthest I need for a com system is 200miles, from Decatur, IN to Lafayette, IN. Based on that distance and the need to communicate with people there in a troubled time(SHTF, Natural or man-Made disaster situation), what would u recommend com wise. Something that can be vehicle and field mobile is need be
QuietShootr
07-15-10, 10:17
.....
I might be missing something here - but a universal "emergency radio" would be handy to LISTEN to stuff.
I tend to pursue a pretty passive plan - and broadcasting a "here I am" signal is low on my to-do-list.
FRS, CB & HAM (or other more exotic) are very nice to have around - when you are SURE it won't be used against you.
But I think a simple "if this-than that" plan would be better to get everyone in your "family/group" gets to the right place.
Charging Handle
11-21-10, 00:24
For those wanting a good quality radio that far exceeds that of the cheapo FRS/GMRS "bubble pack" radios, CBs, etc, yet doesn't require a license or testing to use, you do have another viable option.
FRS radios have terrible range and the quality of those radios are generally very poor. CBs can be built with good quality, but the nature of CB radio also makes reliability and usefulness problematic. And not everyone wants to go through the hassle of getting a HAM license when their goal is only very localized communication with family and/or neighbors.
So what is this other option? Get yourself a quality Marine radio and reprogram it to operate on the MURS frequencies (151.xxx range). While it is technically possible to do so with a HAM specific rig, it is illegal. But you can take a marine radio, a business type radio or a public safety VHF capable radio and legally program it for use on the MURS frequencies. And a license is not required to use MURS frequencies.
Interested? Then this is the specific radio I would recommend:
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2834936
Folks, that is a very affordable radio, coming in at $123.00. And it is also loaded with features that makes it very useful for survival situations. In addition to having the normal NiMH type rechargeable battery pack common to portable radios, you also get a battery tray with this radio that holds 6 AA batteries. So if you don't have power to plug in your charger, just add the AA battery tray and you are right back in business. And if you opt to get a solar battery charger and some rechargeable AA batteries, then you are basically set for even long duration situations without power.
Also, the quality of these radios are very high. Unlike FRS/GMRS junk radios you can get at Wal-Mart for $20 per pack, these radios are built to the same sort of standards you would find on a police/fire type radio, or a portable HAM. The quality and performance of these radios completely blow FRS, GMRS and CBs out of the water. Oh, and you can also legally program HAM frequencies into these radios and use them that way, provided you are a HAM of course. While you can't legally use HAM radios outside the HAM bands, you can use LMR type radios on HAM bands.
Now, in order to get everything set up and programmed where you can legally use them, you'll need a couple of accessories. First, you'll need the programming software to add the MURS frequencies. Standard Horizon CE68 programming software can be found at http://www.psicompany.com and only costs about $25. You can actually get it for free online if you know where to look or who to contact. Then you'll also need a programming cable. Cables for the Yaesu VX-6, VX-7, VX-170 radios work really well with the HX370S. Just be sure you get the USB version of the cable so it will work with your computer. These cables are sometimes available with an alternate type of connection that isn't even supported by many recent computers, so be careful of that. Though these cables can be bought from a number of online vendors, the cheapest place to get them is usually ebay.
http://dsp.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p4009849p275w.jpg
For the money, you really can't beat these little radios. And the process of programming them really isn't any big deal at all. Actually, it is quite easy to do. I already possess a couple of these radios. My plan is to keep buying one or two here and there as I can, so that I'll ultimately have enough of these on hand to supply my immediate family and my neighbors. I believe the benefits of being able to communicate with everyone in your immediate vicinity are pretty evident when thinking of SHTF situations. Not only does it give everyone on the "net" the ability to alert everyone else to any happenings, but it also gives you the ability to control and coordinate activities among numerous people. That is a BIG tactical advantage!
When used in conjunction with a quality shortwave radio (such as the Sony ICF-SW7600GR), the average person can probably meet his/her basic communication needs. The HX370S gives you the ability to communicate locally. And the shortwave radio allows you to listen to news reports from around the world, as well as monitor HAM radio traffic. That is quite a bit of capability for the minimal investment.
LonghunterCO
11-21-10, 12:15
-For the money, you really can't beat these little radios.
- That is quite a bit of capability for the minimal investment.
This looks very interesting. Thanks for posting.
alienb1212
01-16-11, 11:49
New to posting but have been reading for a good long time.
Currently in the military but want to throw a kit together for tactical two-way communications with the wife should SHTF. Looking for as long a range as possible, but realistically would only need 4-6km LOS.
Want AA-pack as well as rechargable battery pack support. Was looking at MURS bands as currently I don't really have the time or ability to get my amateur license. Looking to spend roughly $150-200 per HT, (one for me one for wife, one spare) Compatibility with fire/police/ems bands, (mostly for monitoring) would be a plus.
Playing with my issue Harris PRC152 I'm just amazed by the overall quality, baby seal-(or bad guy) clubbing ability and the range of options this thing has. Is there any civillian handhelds that even come close to offering 52-512mhz, satcom, 3g, and integrated GPS? Or the huge assortment of hardware accessories? These radios can literally do anything if you know how to use them.
I understand military grade encryption and comsec are an unrealized pipe dream that the non-military can only dream of, but I'd like to have something that would be impossible or difficult for any yahoo to pick up with his scanner.
Thanks for the excellent detail.
For those wanting a good quality radio that far exceeds that of the cheapo FRS/GMRS "bubble pack" radios, CBs, etc, yet doesn't require a license or testing to use, you do have another viable option.
FRS radios have terrible range and the quality of those radios are generally very poor. CBs can be built with good quality, but the nature of CB radio also makes reliability and usefulness problematic. And not everyone wants to go through the hassle of getting a HAM license when their goal is only very localized communication with family and/or neighbors.
So what is this other option? Get yourself a quality Marine radio and reprogram it to operate on the MURS frequencies (151.xxx range). While it is technically possible to do so with a HAM specific rig, it is illegal. But you can take a marine radio, a business type radio or a public safety VHF capable radio and legally program it for use on the MURS frequencies. And a license is not required to use MURS frequencies.
Interested? Then this is the specific radio I would recommend:
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2834936
Folks, that is a very affordable radio, coming in at $123.00. And it is also loaded with features that makes it very useful for survival situations. In addition to having the normal NiMH type rechargeable battery pack common to portable radios, you also get a battery tray with this radio that holds 6 AA batteries. So if you don't have power to plug in your charger, just add the AA battery tray and you are right back in business. And if you opt to get a solar battery charger and some rechargeable AA batteries, then you are basically set for even long duration situations without power.
Also, the quality of these radios are very high. Unlike FRS/GMRS junk radios you can get at Wal-Mart for $20 per pack, these radios are built to the same sort of standards you would find on a police/fire type radio, or a portable HAM. The quality and performance of these radios completely blow FRS, GMRS and CBs out of the water. Oh, and you can also legally program HAM frequencies into these radios and use them that way, provided you are a HAM of course. While you can't legally use HAM radios outside the HAM bands, you can use LMR type radios on HAM bands.
Now, in order to get everything set up and programmed where you can legally use them, you'll need a couple of accessories. First, you'll need the programming software to add the MURS frequencies. Standard Horizon CE68 programming software can be found at http://www.psicompany.com and only costs about $25. You can actually get it for free online if you know where to look or who to contact. Then you'll also need a programming cable. Cables for the Yaesu VX-6, VX-7, VX-170 radios work really well with the HX370S. Just be sure you get the USB version of the cable so it will work with your computer. These cables are sometimes available with an alternate type of connection that isn't even supported by many recent computers, so be careful of that. Though these cables can be bought from a number of online vendors, the cheapest place to get them is usually ebay.
http://dsp.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p4009849p275w.jpg
For the money, you really can't beat these little radios. And the process of programming them really isn't any big deal at all. Actually, it is quite easy to do. I already possess a couple of these radios. My plan is to keep buying one or two here and there as I can, so that I'll ultimately have enough of these on hand to supply my immediate family and my neighbors. I believe the benefits of being able to communicate with everyone in your immediate vicinity are pretty evident when thinking of SHTF situations. Not only does it give everyone on the "net" the ability to alert everyone else to any happenings, but it also gives you the ability to control and coordinate activities among numerous people. That is a BIG tactical advantage!
When used in conjunction with a quality shortwave radio (such as the Sony ICF-SW7600GR), the average person can probably meet his/her basic communication needs. The HX370S gives you the ability to communicate locally. And the shortwave radio allows you to listen to news reports from around the world, as well as monitor HAM radio traffic. That is quite a bit of capability for the minimal investment.
faithmyeyes
01-19-11, 11:51
So what is this other option? Get yourself a quality Marine radio and reprogram it to operate on the MURS frequencies (151.xxx range). While it is technically possible to do so with a HAM specific rig, it is illegal. But you can take a marine radio, a business type radio or a public safety VHF capable radio and legally program it for use on the MURS frequencies. And a license is not required to use MURS frequencies.
It is NOT legal to transmit on MURS frequencies with a marine-band or other land-mobile transceiver. New MURS equipment must be certified, and must not transmit in excess of 2 watts. The marine-band handheld mentioned fails both criteria.
faithmyeyes
01-19-11, 11:59
The farthest I need for a com system is 200miles, from Decatur, IN to Lafayette, IN. Based on that distance and the need to communicate with people there in a troubled time(SHTF, Natural or man-Made disaster situation), what would u recommend com wise. Something that can be vehicle and field mobile is need be
Amateur HF is the only thing I know of available to civilians that will do that distance station-to-station on the ground. You'll need mobile transceivers capable of operation in the 40, 60, 75, or 160 meter bands, an appropriate antenna system, and a General or Extra class Amateur license.
faithmyeyes
01-19-11, 12:24
Looking for as long a range as possible, but realistically would only need 4-6km LOS.
4-6km is easy if it's truly unobstructed LOS. Most folks wind up using radios in cars, in the woods, in buildings, around hills, etc, which is why those "36-mile" bubble-pack buys from Wal-Mart sometimes struggle within one mile. If you can, try some different types of radios around your intended AO and see how reliable they are.
Was looking at MURS bands as currently I don't really have the time or ability to get my amateur license. Looking to spend roughly $150-200 per HT, (one for me one for wife, one spare) Compatibility with fire/police/ems bands, (mostly for monitoring) would be a plus.MURS is a nice band, but it can be hard to find good gear for. I'd encourage you to take a second look at getting the entry-level Technician-class amateur license... it gives you a whole world's worth of better options.
Is there any civillian handhelds that even come close to offering 52-512mhz, satcom, 3g, and integrated GPS?
There are a couple of amateur handhelds from ICOM and Kenwood that offer two or three bands, digital voice, and integrated GPS, but nothing like the military- grade gear, for sure.
I understand military grade encryption and comsec are an unrealized pipe dream that the non-military can only dream of, but I'd like to have something that would be impossible or difficult for any yahoo to pick up with his scanner.
True encryption is illegal on the amateur bands, but it's legal to use certain digital-voice standards that can't be decoded by common scanners.
In the un-licensed world, you can either look for an FRS or MURS unit that offers inversion scrambling for some limited privacy, or you can check out frequency-hopping units in the 900-MHz ISM band. The two offerings I'm aware of in that category are TriSquare's eXRS (http://www.trisquare.us/) and Motorola's DTR series (http://bit.ly/gpwl38). Frequency-hopping units are not impossible to intercept, but they require a lot more work.
That eXRS is a handy looking option.
Thanks for the info !!
alienb1212
02-01-11, 16:10
Got a study guide and am going to start working on my technician level license. Really isnt as involved as I thought it was, and looks really easy. I'd encourage others to just do it as well, really looks like cake.
Some may want to think about the Garmin Rino series they are powerful 5 watt FRS/GMRS unit with GPS functions, When you talk with some one it will automatically put there location on you screen ,and the communication can be coded so only the ones you want can communicate with you. Great if you have children are if someone gets hurt in the woods, all type of possibilities.
I just read this thread all of the way through and will tag it to come back to for updates. It has me thinking about what I need to do in the future and the types of equipment to learn more about.
I actually have a set of the $20.00 Walmart GMRS/FRS radios that were purchased at 3:00 AM in a large city to use on a security detail (similar radios to those shown a link posted earlier in the thread, Midland X-tra Talk). We had flown in and would be traveling by car across a very large area and wanted the ability to communicate car-to-car in areas were there wasn't cell coverage. The intended use was simple communications between the vehicles, such as low on fuel, right turn ahead, potty break, etc.), after the detail they were retained for future use, should the need araise. Not knowing anything about them, after the detail was completed I also obtained a Radio Station Authorization so we could 'legally' use the GMRS freqs / function, in an effort to increase their usable range. Based upon what I've read here that was unnecessary.
The thread has made me aware of the overall uselessness of these radios and I see little value in throwing more money into them (external and mobile antennas, etc.).
Thanks for those who have shared their knowledge, I will be checking back to increase my awareness about what is available and usable for us non-radio types.
TXLowflyer
02-09-11, 00:18
This website also looks interesting
http://www.gmrsoutlet.com/home.php
I hope this helps
This thread needs more pics..........
My level 1(short range/neighbohood) comms....
http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/clastac/comms031.jpg?t=1299975004
http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/clastac/comms034.jpg?t=1299975085
http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/clastac/comms033.jpg?t=1299975085
http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/clastac/comms032.jpg?t=1299975085
After trying diferent equipment, I have finally settled in this set of gear for my level 1 communication equipment.
What is everyone else using?
Thanks,
gb
License term is 10 years and I think they automatically renew; not sure as I've only had mine 2 years.
Actually no cost for the license (except vanity calls), you pay for the test.
I just repeatedly took the practice tests at www.hamtestonline.com until I was comfortable enough that I would pass with no more than one or two wrong.
Think you can miss 9.
Here is another practice site:
http://www.eham.net/exams/
It might also be helpful to know that the actual question pools are pre-determined and therefore there are no surprise questions.
You can download the entire question set here:
http://www.arrl.org/question-pools
If you just study those for a while you will see some recurring trends. They ask the same thing in many different way. They also give you you the correct answers. Not trying to discount the testing process but they really could not make it much easier. Study the pool, take the online interactive tests and you'll soon know if you are ready. Someone said their 8 yr old was studying...pretty sure he/she will pass and won't be the first to do it.
The questions and answer you see at the real test will be EXACTLY as those found in the pool. They may change the order of A,B,C,D, but the wording will not change at all. In a pinch, you can always just memorize the tricky questions but that sorta defeats the purpose. Better to just know the stuff.
The licenses are good for ten years but must be renewed manually. (i.e.: pay the fee) If you let it lapse they give you two years after expiration to reinstate your license.
73
This thread needs more pics..........
Nice. I should put my collection of FRS radios into a watertight box like you did. My Nike shoebox probably isn't going to shed the rain like yours will.
Another thing I thought of...to cover the CB (10/11 meter) band you can pick up some pretty cheap handheld CB's from brands like Midland and Cobra. They aren't as robust as a mobile units but they are portable and they will let you monitor that frequency which may be all you need or want is some cases. HTs and FRS/GMRS radios typically won't get you into that band. Having at least one in your bag might be wise.
If they come with BNC connectors where the antenna attaches, you can dramatically improve your range by simply getting a cheap magnetic trunk/roof mounted external antenna at the Radio Shack. We used a setup like that on a Jeep excursion and the mag-mounts were key to staying in touch.
To boost the transit power of your HT radio you can also look into "brick" amplifiers which will give you much more power on the 2m and 70cm bands. I have one made by Mirage and it works rather well. Again, your radio will need a removable antenna like that Yaesu collection in the box above. Get a jumper that hooks the HT to the brick and a mag-mount antenna on stick on the roof and you're in like Flynn. Power is supplied by the vehicle battery either thru the cig lighter or straight-wired directly to the battery. (If you go to the battery to reduce noise make sure you install a fuse to avoid accidentally setting your car on fire! Just a tip there!;))
Handheld units are nowhere near as powerful as base/mobile units but there are a few tricks you can try to squeeze out a little more power. Adding a simple mag-mount antenna goes a long way and can even improve the reception on your scanner.
Outlander Systems
04-10-11, 20:24
Finally got around to getting something.
Picked up a CB Radio, mobile unit.
Model is a Cobra 29 LX LCD. It's attached to some unknown antenna my father had lying around in his garage. Antenna is a cheap, POS, base-loaded, magnetic mounted, 18".
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4800/lxlcddisplay.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3832/lxlcdmounted.jpg
First off, the display is outstanding. My biggest gripe is a lack of backlit knobs; however, after noodling around with it this afternoon, I can pretty much navigate to anything I could be looking for.
Features are pretty much standard, Squelch, Dynamic Mic, RF-Gain, Delta-Tune, etc.
Setup was pretty easy. Wired it into the fuse box, and grounded it to the vehicle. The unit features a self-diagnostic tool for the radio, in the way of a battery voltage test, RF output, and antenna functioning. The unit also has a SWR Calibration/Test feature, that allows the user to determine the Standing Wave Ratio. Even with the shoddy antenna, I was hanging around 1.5 through 39 channels. Channel 40, for some reason, is hanging around 2.5.
The feature I find most luxurious is the ability to scan through channels. When initiated, the scan feature will blow through the spectrum looking for a signal level of a certain strength. At which point the scan pauses, and remains connected to the other station until the signal drops, or you manually resume the scan.
The unit is installed in a Ford Ranger. Apparently, Ford's are notorious for obnoxious noise and interference. When I took a drive, to see how it was working post-install, I noticed a hellacious whining noise coming from the unit. The noise is apparently coming from the fuel pump, by my best estimate. This could've been mitigated by running the positive wire directly to the battery, but I was primarily concerned with verifying the function of the radio.
After consulting the manual, I discovered that the unit has a "Noise Blanker/Automatic Noise Limiter)" setting to, essentially, act as a noise gate, not dissimilar to a guitar effects pedal. Worked perfectly. Once activated, the NB/ABL removed any interference emanating from the bowels of the Ranger.
Another cool feature is the weather scan/weather alert. The unit can be configured to notify the operator of any incoming 1050hz signal/weather warning.
Unit also has channel memory, and a defaulted one-click switchover to channels 9 and 19.
This is my first rodeo for radios, and so far it seems like it will fit my needs.
I made contact with a gentleman by the handle of "Buckaroo", on the other side of the next county over. (Approximately 20 miles).
So far, my only complaint is the lack of backlit knobs.
QuietShootr
04-10-11, 20:37
Finally got around to getting something.
Picked up a CB Radio, mobile unit.
Model is a Cobra 29 LX LCD. It's attached to some unknown antenna my father had lying around in his garage. Antenna is a cheap, POS, base-loaded, magnetic mounted, 18".
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4800/lxlcddisplay.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3832/lxlcdmounted.jpg
First off, the display is outstanding. My biggest gripe is a lack of backlit knobs; however, after noodling around with it this afternoon, I can pretty much navigate to anything I could be looking for.
Features are pretty much standard, Squelch, Dynamic Mic, RF-Gain, Delta-Tune, etc.
Setup was pretty easy. Wired it into the fuse box, and grounded it to the vehicle. The unit features a self-diagnostic tool for the radio, in the way of a battery voltage test, RF output, and antenna functioning. The unit also has a SWR Calibration/Test feature, that allows the user to determine the Standing Wave Ratio. Even with the shoddy antenna, I was hanging around 1.5 through 39 channels. Channel 40, for some reason, is hanging around 2.5.
The feature I find most luxurious is the ability to scan through channels. When initiated, the scan feature will blow through the spectrum looking for a signal level of a certain strength. At which point the scan pauses, and remains connected to the other station until the signal drops, or you manually resume the scan.
The unit is installed in a Ford Ranger. Apparently, Ford's are notorious for obnoxious noise and interference. When I took a drive, to see how it was working post-install, I noticed a hellacious whining noise coming from the unit. The noise is apparently coming from the fuel pump, by my best estimate. This could've been mitigated by running the positive wire directly to the battery, but I was primarily concerned with verifying the function of the radio.
After consulting the manual, I discovered that the unit has a "Noise Blanker/Automatic Noise Limiter)" setting to, essentially, act as a noise gate, not dissimilar to a guitar effects pedal. Worked perfectly. Once activated, the NB/ABL removed any interference emanating from the bowels of the Ranger.
Another cool feature is the weather scan/weather alert. The unit can be configured to notify the operator of any incoming 1050hz signal/weather warning.
Unit also has channel memory, and a defaulted one-click switchover to channels 9 and 19.
This is my first rodeo for radios, and so far it seems like it will fit my needs.
I made contact with a gentleman by the handle of "Buckaroo", on the other side of the next county over. (Approximately 20 miles).
So far, my only complaint is the lack of backlit knobs.
That's not exactly how that works. In the end, the effect is that it will reduce your receiver sensitivity. It would be better to cure the noise problem by putting a capacitor across the supply cable, or by doing something like this: http://www.worldwidedx.com/home-brew-mods/31492-building-simple-alternator-whine-ignition-filter.html
Outlander Systems
04-10-11, 21:15
Any advice on the capacitor install? Link me, baby!
QuietShootr
04-16-11, 18:59
Any advice on the capacitor install? Link me, baby!
Try that link I posted above. If you want to try just the cap, go to Radio Shack and get the one pictured on the link, and connect it across the power cable as close to your radio as you can get it, and observe that the capacitor has polarity (put the + on the correct side of the power cable, iow.) See if the noise disappears. If it does, come back here and I'll talk you through installing it permanently.
Logicalpath
07-08-11, 23:58
WOW!!! This is way more than I bargained for to say the least. While these forums are very informative they're also trying to guide me towards bankruptcy.:smile:
On a serious note, I don't think what you all are describing is practical for my set of circumstances. I live in a town house surrounded by morons in the middle of Miami. If there is a survival situation what I would want is a way to communicate quickly and on the move. I figure we're going to have to get out of dodge quickly & would need to take my gear with me. I'm not sure if there is anything that would serve a dual purpose but ideally I would want to have walkie-talkies(about 4) to be able to communicate among the group and if at all possible to communicate with family in West Palm Beach(80 miles away).
Does that sound terribly unreasonable? Any guidance is appreciated, thanks.
QuietShootr
07-09-11, 09:08
WOW!!! This is way more than I bargained for to say the least. While these forums are very informative they're also trying to guide me towards bankruptcy.:smile:
On a serious note, I don't think what you all are describing is practical for my set of circumstances. I live in a town house surrounded by morons in the middle of Miami. If there is a survival situation what I would want is a way to communicate quickly and on the move. I figure we're going to have to get out of dodge quickly & would need to take my gear with me. I'm not sure if there is anything that would serve a dual purpose but ideally I would want to have walkie-talkies(about 4) to be able to communicate among the group and if at all possible to communicate with family in West Palm Beach(80 miles away).
Does that sound terribly unreasonable? Any guidance is appreciated, thanks.
The 80 mile link isn't going to happen without a pair of HF radios and a couple of competent operators. The only way around this would be to spend a LOT of money (like $5000 per end) on some commercial/military HF rigs that have Automatic Link Establishment and have them set up by someone who knows what they're doing.
The local communication can be easily handled with MURS, GMRS, or FRS handhelds.
Logicalpath
07-09-11, 15:40
The 80 mile link isn't going to happen without a pair of HF radios and a couple of competent operators. The only way around this would be to spend a LOT of money (like $5000 per end) on some commercial/military HF rigs that have Automatic Link Establishment and have them set up by someone who knows what they're doing.
The local communication can be easily handled with MURS, GMRS, or FRS handhelds.
For practical reasons, if there ever was an emergency situation I think we would have to leave our house. So having any kind of system which would be considered "static" is not ideal for me. Not to mention the money those systems would cost is way out of my budget(at least for the time being).
Do you have any suggestions as far as FRS handhelds are concerned? Thanks for your input, more than one person has suggested I discuss this with you. Again, my circumstances are less than ideal because of my geographic location, holding the fort seems like a less than desirable option.
QuietShootr
07-09-11, 15:50
For practical reasons, if there ever was an emergency situation I think we would have to leave our house. So having any kind of system which would be considered "static" is not ideal for me. Not to mention the money those systems would cost is way out of my budget(at least for the time being).
Do you have any suggestions as far as FRS handhelds are concerned? Thanks for your input, more than one person has suggested I discuss this with you. Again, my circumstances are less than ideal because of my geographic location, holding the fort seems like a less than desirable option.
I would avoid FRS if possible, I just mentioned it for the sake of completeness. Your best bet would be to spend about $100-150 per handheld on some commercial Motorola VHF units off of eBay and have them programmed to MURS frequencies by the dealer.
Logicalpath....You are in Miami? Have you checked out page 2 of this thread? It looks like (to me at least) there is a fellow member here who is involved with a 2m repeater in downtown Miami.....?
If I read it correctly, it can even be hit from West Palm Beach...........
Logicalpath
07-10-11, 07:45
I would avoid FRS if possible, I just mentioned it for the sake of completeness. Your best bet would be to spend about $100-150 per handheld on some commercial Motorola VHF units off of eBay and have them programmed to MURS frequencies by the dealer.
Thanks for the input, I'll get on that. Would THIS (http://www.radiogear8.com/motorola-gp3188-vhf-146174-mhz-commercial-radio-3188_p28342.html) be an example of what you're talking about?
Logicalpath....You are in Miami? Have you checked out page 2 of this thread? It looks like (to me at least) there is a fellow member here who is involved with a 2m repeater in downtown Miami.....?
If I read it correctly, it can even be hit from West Palm Beach...........
Maybe my settings are different but I didn't see that post on pg2. However I'm going to re-read the entire thread in an effort to learn more about the subject. Thanks for pointing that out to me, I'll keep an eye out for it on my re-read.
QuietShootr
09-02-11, 12:10
I saw something hysterically funny in Dick's yesterday. Bubble-pack FRS/GMRS radios with a big 36 MILE RANGE! printed on the front. :rolleyes:
Heavy Metal
09-02-11, 12:20
That should read .36 mile range.
MeanStreaker
09-09-11, 19:58
I definitely need to upgrade my Comms.
I got my Tech ham license a few years ago and picked up a Yaesu FT60R radio. It's a great little HT. I listened every now and then but never really got into it as I can only take so many 2m conversations about an 80 year old's last doctor visit. :p
I studied for a few days and upgraded to General in June on a whim. Now I'd really like to get an economical HF rig to be able to monitor further out.
QuietShootr
09-09-11, 20:29
I definitely need to upgrade my Comms.
I got my Tech ham license a few years ago and picked up a Yaesu FT60R radio. It's a great little HT. I listened every now and then but never really got into it as I can only take so many 2m conversations about an 80 year old's last doctor visit. :p
I studied for a few days and upgraded to General in June on a whim. Now I'd really like to get an economical HF rig to be able to monitor further out.
Well, you'll enjoy the conversations on 80m at night then, they're all about old guys and their 'rhoids.
MeanStreaker
09-11-11, 17:17
Well, you'll enjoy the conversations on 80m at night then, they're all about old guys and their 'rhoids.
Yeah, but they'll be discussing their 'rhoids via an exotic southern or northeastern accent. :lol:
Must. Get. HF Radio.....
QuietShootr
09-11-11, 20:01
Yeah, but they'll be discussing their 'rhoids via an exotic southern or northeastern accent. :lol:
Must. Get. HF Radio.....
HF is tits for our purposes. No other way to put it.
Yeah, but they'll be discussing their 'rhoids via an exotic southern or northeastern accent. :lol:
Must. Get. HF Radio.....
HF NVIS from 3.5 to 7MHz is said to be a good emergency comms strategy.
QuietShootr
09-11-11, 20:09
HF NVIS from 3.5 to 7MHz is said to be a good emergency comms strategy.
See Page 1 of this thread...
See Page 1 of this thread...
Mmmm. Yep.
I have read the thread a long while ago, but have not reread.
MeanStreaker
09-15-11, 19:28
HF NVIS from 3.5 to 7MHz is said to be a good emergency comms strategy.
Agreed.
I was just reading the other thread, regarding mass civil unrest when something sprung up...
Have you ever considered digital modes for your emcomm setups?
Regarding getting the truth out, using something, such as PSK31, Hellschreiber etc. Since you already need to use a computer, why not put gpg over it?
I mean, write your message, gpg encrypt, PSK/HELL transmit it OTA.
Take antennae down, move to another location.
Assuming the internet is down, either a) public keys must be pre-shared, also assuring identity of owner, web of trust or b) relayed via courier/dead drop.
Just thinking out loud/brainstorming.
I recently received a couple of 7/800 band APX 6000 radios from Moto for T&E and I was wondering if they're any good outside of a trunked system. Namely a SHTF scenario.
Staying with FCC permissible emergency scenarios, is there an advantage to having access to this bandwidth?
They're encrypted, is that a liability in establishing a link with unsecured stations?
Is the whole 7/800 band restricted?
*I'm a comms novice.
I was just reading the other thread, regarding mass civil unrest when something sprung up...
Have you ever considered digital modes for your emcomm setups?
Regarding getting the truth out, using something, such as PSK31, Hellschreiber etc. Since you already need to use a computer, why not put gpg over it?
I mean, write your message, gpg encrypt, PSK/HELL transmit it OTA.
Take antennae down, move to another location.
Assuming the internet is down, either a) public keys must be pre-shared, also assuring identity of owner, web of trust or b) relayed via courier/dead drop.
Just thinking out loud/brainstorming.
There is a place for digital comms in preparedness. Phone can only do so much and digital can work in the highest noise. Bluewater sailors have used it for a long time ,and the good EMCOM agencies have it set up as well. Packet is good, but for the long haul, infrastructure free digicomms, I have yet to find anything better than Pactor III.
But that's just me....
gb
Packet is good, but for the long haul, infrastructure free digicomms, I have yet to find anything better than Pactor III.
I just have a passing knowledge on digital modes. I have no idea on PACTOR modes.
The other thread I referred to, https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=75318, people mentioned the need for privacy, so I thought on the digital modes...
Since you already have the computer for the digital modes, why not add an extra layer of encryption, using one of the publicly available strong methods?
But, as I alluded to in the previous message, there is an unresolved issue regarding the dissemination of the public keys.
QuietShootr
10-19-11, 07:23
I was just reading the other thread, regarding mass civil unrest when something sprung up...
Have you ever considered digital modes for your emcomm setups?
Regarding getting the truth out, using something, such as PSK31, Hellschreiber etc. Since you already need to use a computer, why not put gpg over it?
I mean, write your message, gpg encrypt, PSK/HELL transmit it OTA.
Take antennae down, move to another location.
Assuming the internet is down, either a) public keys must be pre-shared, also assuring identity of owner, web of trust or b) relayed via courier/dead drop.
Just thinking out loud/brainstorming.
Already done :-) Get yourself a SignalinkUSB and go nuts.
alienb1212
11-07-11, 07:37
After reading the thread, I am seeing that investing in a good handheld scanner would probably be a good idea...however...
There's so many out there, and I'm new to this field. Anyone reccomend a good handheld scanner covering as many bands as possible, looking to spend $100-150 or less.
QuietShootr
11-07-11, 07:53
After reading the thread, I am seeing that investing in a good handheld scanner would probably be a good idea...however...
There's so many out there, and I'm new to this field. Anyone reccomend a good handheld scanner covering as many bands as possible, looking to spend $100-150 or less.
Pretty much going to be useless. Most places are going to P25 digital, which will cost you $500 to listen to, period.
alienb1212
11-07-11, 12:16
Er, I'm already tied in pretty well to the local EMCOMM due to work, I'm more worried about post SHTF comms from others, be it GMRS/CB/HAM whatever.
Tweightwee
11-16-11, 13:33
Er, I'm already tied in pretty well to the local EMCOMM due to work, I'm more worried about post SHTF comms from others, be it GMRS/CB/HAM whatever.
If you're not worried about the gov stuff, any $100 wallyworld/ratshack scanner will do for most of what you want. Since the various license free, citizen band services are all channelized, it's easy to just program those specific frequencies so you don't have to monitor vast amounts of bandwidth.
Monitoring amateur radio is going to quite a bit more complicated and expensive simply because of the sheer frequency range and number of modes available to that service.
Devildog1988
02-11-12, 20:20
I have added a set of Talk Abouts by Motorola. Tested them to see how long the signal is good for and they turn out to have good reception for about a mile in a forested area (North Carolina)
montanadave
02-15-12, 11:37
As I intend to be moving out to the country in relatively short order, I would like to explore the possibilities of having an amateur radio set-up. I'd be interested primarily in something that would provide long range reception and transmission capabilities to hand held units within the immediate area. I'd be working from a fixed base station, as once I get settled into my new digs I'm not planning on going anywhere. I'd just like the ability to keep in touch with what's going on out there in the big wild world.
I am totally ignorant about this subject. I've read through this thread and get turned around by all the acronyms and tech-talk pretty fast. That said, I'm no dummy and can generally pick things up quickly if I have the right instructional materials. I also prefer written materials to trying to read at length on the computer, as it gives me a raging headache.
So can anyone recommend some good introductory books for a person wanting to familiarize themselves with amateur radio and prepare themselves for the various licensure exams?
I also prefer written materials to trying to read at length on the computer, as it gives me a raging headache.
Plus, they don't require electricity!
When stuff isn't working and you're by your own, it's reassuring to have information handy.
So can anyone recommend some good introductory books for a person wanting to familiarize themselves with amateur radio and prepare themselves for the various licensure exams?
Check out http://www.arrl.org/shop/What-s-New.
The Handbook and the Antenna Book will get you well underway.
Plus, they have several license-specific exams.
If you are planning on leaving for another country, make sure to check their requirements. There are several which do not possess reciprocity agreements with the US.
montanadave
02-19-12, 12:14
Thanks for the suggestion. I picked one up from Amazon (and a couple of the " ... for Dummies" on ham radio, two-way radios, and scanners). Time to educate myself so I can actually ask some half-intelligible questions. :laugh:
alienb1212
04-01-12, 10:12
Got a 2m HT, just need to take my exam now. Probably going to grab a Yaesu portable soon too.
alienb1212
05-08-12, 13:40
Took the tech test and passed it, but my call is still not showing up in the FCC database, (over a week now...thinking my VEC screwed something up..)
alienb1212
05-13-12, 11:23
Ok General/Extra licensees, help me chose my HF radio.
I'm basically stuck between a Yaesu FT-897D and the Icom IC-7000
Icom is about $300 more, but seems to have a few features missing from the Yaesu, the big one being RTTY decoding without any external hardware...but I really like the portable features of the Yaesu.
I'm sure you all know what they both are, but links:
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/7000/default.aspx
http://yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=102&encProdID=0372FA803B7BBADBF3076C94ACA7A8C5&DivisionID=65&isArchived=0
I'm really leaning towards the Yaesu, and using the saved money to get the battery packs, and saving for the bolt-on tuner. Thoughts?
Ok General/Extra licensees, help me chose my HF radio.
I'm basically stuck between a Yaesu FT-897D and the Icom IC-7000
Icom is about $300 more, but seems to have a few features missing from the Yaesu, the big one being RTTY decoding without any external hardware...but I really like the portable features of the Yaesu.
I'm sure you all know what they both are, but links:
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/7000/default.aspx
http://yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=102&encProdID=0372FA803B7BBADBF3076C94ACA7A8C5&DivisionID=65&isArchived=0
I'm really leaning towards the Yaesu, and using the saved money to get the battery packs, and saving for the bolt-on tuner. Thoughts?
I have used Yaesu's for 7 years, including the FT-897, and never had a problem with them. I have friends that have had Icom's longer than that, and never had a worry.
Yaesu or Icom......
Colt or BCM.....
I don't think you can go wrong with either, as long as you keep in mind the most important part is to get out there and use it.
Icom is about $300 more, but seems to have a few features missing from the Yaesu, the big one being RTTY decoding without any external hardware...but I really like the portable features of the Yaesu.
The 897/857 is much better in emergency power situations, and is smart enough to know when it's on battery or not. With different power settings, etc.
It's audios are also easier to configure for different modes.
And interfacing for soundcard modes is dead easy, the digital port on the back is already 600 ohm, and has it's own audio settings including vox.
There are many more differences to the radios than just features in the brochure.
I've had an 897 since released, and run an 857 in my truck since it was released. If what you want is SSB performance and good digital flexibility performance they would still be my choice. I'm not enamored of the 7000 display, but use a laptop when needed to get similar on the 8x7's
alienb1212
05-13-12, 14:04
The 897/857 is much better in emergency power situations, and is smart enough to know when it's on battery or not. With different power settings, etc.
It's audios are also easier to configure for different modes.
And interfacing for soundcard modes is dead easy, the digital port on the back is already 600 ohm, and has it's own audio settings including vox.
There are many more differences to the radios than just features in the brochure.
I've had an 897 since released, and run an 857 in my truck since it was released. If what you want is SSB performance and good digital flexibility performance they would still be my choice. I'm not enamored of the 7000 display, but use a laptop when needed to get similar on the 8x7's
Probably going to go with the Yaesu then, as I have a nice toughbook that can accompany it for mobile digital modes if needed.
I have both the 857 and the 817. Had ann IC 706MkII for a while.
Both are good, each has it's perks. Some people say that Icom audio is better than Yaesu's. Not having done any A/B comparisons or blind testing, it is a tricky proposition, but I agree wtih that.
The 817 is a heck lot more portable, all you need is a good antenna.
The buddipole might be good is vehicles are involved. I am leaning towards magloops for /p work.
Also, if you are thinking of vehicle mounting them, with the remote heads, the Icom offer a more sane approach. That would be my choice if remoting.
alienb1212
05-15-12, 12:45
I have both the 857 and the 817. Had ann IC 706MkII for a while.
Both are good, each has it's perks. Some people say that Icom audio is better than Yaesu's. Not having done any A/B comparisons or blind testing, it is a tricky proposition, but I agree wtih that.
The 817 is a heck lot more portable, all you need is a good antenna.
The buddipole might be good is vehicles are involved. I am leaning towards magloops for /p work.
Also, if you are thinking of vehicle mounting them, with the remote heads, the Icom offer a more sane approach. That would be my choice if remoting.
817 looked pretty good, all be it a bit underpowered.... 5 watts while may be workable with a great antenna setup and a little knowledge, it just doesn't seem to be quite in my skillset yet.
Really liked the manpack-type options that the 897D offers. The batteries are extremely expensive relative to other radios battery packs, and I wonder just exactly how long they'd last when powering the HF tuner as well...but meh.
I think I will eventually end up getting both the 817 for manpack and 897D for the base/vehicle/camp. I do like that both radios will operate on VHF too.
QuietShootr
05-15-12, 13:03
817 looked pretty good, all be it a bit underpowered.... 5 watts while may be workable with a great antenna setup and a little knowledge, it just doesn't seem to be quite in my skillset yet.
Really liked the manpack-type options that the 897D offers. The batteries are extremely expensive relative to other radios battery packs, and I wonder just exactly how long they'd last when powering the HF tuner as well...but meh.
I think I will eventually end up getting both the 817 for manpack and 897D for the base/vehicle/camp. I do like that both radios will operate on VHF too.
The 817 is not very useful for what you guys are talking about doing. Hams often confuse the ability to talk to SOMEBODY with the utility of being able to talk to a specific person. Just because Elmer has worked all states on 5w doesn't mean that 5w is useful - it just means Elmer was patient enough (over YEARS, probably) to wait for conditions to be just right for his tiny little signal to be heard by someone. We have tried the 817 route, and 5 watts is not enough power for a reliable voice communication circuit with a specific station under any reasonable conditions (i.e. your intended receiver isn't listening for you with a Wullenweber array hundreds of yards in diameter, for instance).
Going digital changes things quite a bit, of course.
alienb1212
05-15-12, 13:30
The 817 is not very useful for what you guys are talking about doing. Hams often confuse the ability to talk to SOMEBODY with the utility of being able to talk to a specific person. Just because Elmer has worked all states on 5w doesn't mean that 5w is useful - it just means Elmer was patient enough (over YEARS, probably) to wait for conditions to be just right for his tiny little signal to be heard by someone. We have tried the 817 route, and 5 watts is not enough power for a reliable voice communication circuit with a specific station under any reasonable conditions (i.e. your intended receiver isn't listening for you with a Wullenweber array hundreds of yards in diameter, for instance).
Going digital changes things quite a bit, of course.
My intent was to use NVIS for HF comms between the manpack and the base station/camp/whatever. Would 5w be just too low for this?
The 817 is not very useful for what you guys are talking about doing. Hams often confuse the ability to talk to SOMEBODY with the utility of being able to talk to a specific person.
[SNIP]
Going digital changes things quite a bit, of course.
I Agree with most of the above.
I guess everybody can what-if all day long, but one scenario I can think is having comms while moving and having an amplifier at BOL to compliment. I do not see a scenario where HF while /PM is a necessity.
But I agree with the 817 being underpowered. Also, as a broadband receiver, there are better options, tough. The selling point, however, it the light weight and reduced size.
If power (both DC and RF) are available at BOL, but the radio is to be transported, then it is a good option. One might question the strategy...
I do not have any digital experience, I might get a look into it.
alien, your answer might be yes. You might have to check, field test and maybe do some propagation analysis.
QuietShootr
05-16-12, 17:20
My intent was to use NVIS for HF comms between the manpack and the base station/camp/whatever. Would 5w be just too low for this?
Been there, tried it, got the T-shirt. No ****in way unless conditions are perfect.
alienb1212
05-16-12, 17:22
Been there, tried it, got the T-shirt. No ****in way unless conditions are perfect.
Thank you for a no-bs answer. What type of power levels would I need to start off with? 20w? 100w? Just trying to get an idea what kind of equipment I will need to start to attempt these contacts.
QuietShootr
05-16-12, 17:32
Thank you for a no-bs answer. What type of power levels would I need to start off with? 20w? 100w? Just trying to get an idea what kind of equipment I will need to start to attempt these contacts.
It depends on what level of reliability you're satisfied with, and I assume you're talking about SSB voice. I HAVE conversed at 5w on 80m NVIS with people in the same state, but that's AFTER we linked up using 100w. and 100w won't always do it - you're just drastically increasing your odds. Now if you do Olivia with a netbook, things get a lot easier.
alienb1212
05-18-12, 05:38
It depends on what level of reliability you're satisfied with, and I assume you're talking about SSB voice. I HAVE conversed at 5w on 80m NVIS with people in the same state, but that's AFTER we linked up using 100w. and 100w won't always do it - you're just drastically increasing your odds. Now if you do Olivia with a netbook, things get a lot easier.
Going to do some more research on digital modes, thanks for the tip.
While carting a PDA around in addition to the radio might be possible, I cant see requiring our RTO (probably me) to carry a netbook on top of everything else..bleh.
Pity they dont make radios capable of decoding all of these different digital modes on the fly in programmable software. Today's technology is perfectly capable of this, it just seems like Ham radio tends to favor more gear-hodgepodging than focusing on integrating gear. I guess military comm equipment has spoiled me a bit.
QuietShootr
05-18-12, 09:48
Going to do some more research on digital modes, thanks for the tip.
While carting a PDA around in addition to the radio might be possible, I cant see requiring our RTO (probably me) to carry a netbook on top of everything else..bleh.
Pity they dont make radios capable of decoding all of these different digital modes on the fly in programmable software. Today's technology is perfectly capable of this, it just seems like Ham radio tends to favor more gear-hodgepodging than focusing on integrating gear. I guess military comm equipment has spoiled me a bit.
It's true. I'd trade a testicle for a pair of PRC-152s.
I do use a netbook and digital interface afield. It's easier than you think, and the nice thing is you can pre-load the message, then set up your antenna, shoot, and scoot. If you set up the kit properly it's not that big of a PITA. I have a Pelican case set up with my -897, a Signalink, and a little Dell Mini-10 in it that all I have to do is open, boot the computer, turn on the radio, and connect an antenna.
alienb1212
05-23-12, 14:41
It's true. I'd trade a testicle for a pair of PRC-152s.
I do use a netbook and digital interface afield. It's easier than you think, and the nice thing is you can pre-load the message, then set up your antenna, shoot, and scoot. If you set up the kit properly it's not that big of a PITA. I have a Pelican case set up with my -897, a Signalink, and a little Dell Mini-10 in it that all I have to do is open, boot the computer, turn on the radio, and connect an antenna.
Do you mind detailing the setup you use with some pics and equipment descriptions?
Do you mind detailing the setup you use with some pics and equipment descriptions?
I might be interested too.
Vorpal_weapon
05-25-12, 09:33
I've appreciated this discourse a lot - kinda re-awakened my interest in HF. Thanks QuietShootr for sharing your knowledge.
Do you mind detailing the setup you use with some pics and equipment descriptions?
I am interested as well.
alienb1212
05-31-12, 04:39
Been doing a little bit of research, seems there are some quite matured Android PSK31 apps that might fit my needs. Unfortunately most Android phones/PDAs dont come with an audio input, but I think I can rig something up with a bluetooth headset/external bluetooth soundcard.
My goal is a man-portable PSK31/similar rig, with something battery powered and ideally the size of the 817, with a small control/decode head such as a PDA with a keyboard built in. Alternatively, the radio could be an 897D but I'd much prefer the smaller unit over the much, much heavier 897.
Obviously if vehicles are available a laptop, and external power sources and larger, pre-built antennas would allow much quicker/higher power NVIS setups, but I'm shooting for manpack dimensions right now.
QuietShootr
05-31-12, 08:20
Been doing a little bit of research, seems there are some quite matured Android PSK31 apps that might fit my needs. Unfortunately most Android phones/PDAs dont come with an audio input, but I think I can rig something up with a bluetooth headset/external bluetooth soundcard.
My goal is a man-portable PSK31/similar rig, with something battery powered and ideally the size of the 817, with a small control/decode head such as a PDA with a keyboard built in. Alternatively, the radio could be an 897D but I'd much prefer the smaller unit over the much, much heavier 897.
Obviously if vehicles are available a laptop, and external power sources and larger, pre-built antennas would allow much quicker/higher power NVIS setups, but I'm shooting for manpack dimensions right now.
Keep us up to date. That would be the balls.
Teufelshund
06-11-12, 14:07
Comms figure big in my wife & I's preps.
With communication capabilities you are able to monitor what is going on in everything from your local environment to the world.
When severe weather comes into our area, we fire up the 2 meter amateur radios and monitor Skywarn. This allows us to real time where the severe weather is. This has proven more than useful a time or two.
Amateur radio has also given me the ability to help with post disaster recovery. May of 2003 a large F3 flattened the town where my parents lived. As we could not reach them by phone, (land line or cell) I loaded up the truck and drove the 2 1/2 hours down. The area had been hit hard, cell towers were down, the downtown area leveled. The local phone exchange building had been scrubbed down to the foundation.
The only means of communication in our out of there for the first couple of days was by radio. The day after the tornado I spent driving around with my parents checking on the elderly population. I was able to relay message traffic to another amateur radio operator in a different town, she in turn was able to call families and let them know the status of their loved ones.
A General amateur radio license and an HF radio give us world wide communications capabilities. Even during poor radio conditions we've talked to stations from New Zealand to Russia.
Comms also give you a huge tactical advantage. They allow you to know what is happening somewhere else and by knowing that information, allow you to plan for those situations. You can be PROACTIVE, rather than REACTIVE.
An amateur radio technician license is relatively easy to get. A little time studying the material, $14, and find a local test location and you will be good to go. The test is easy to pass with a little reading and studying before hand. If all goes as planned my 8 year old daughter is going to test the first of next year.
Semper Fi
Dave, GREAT POST!!! Particularly this part: "Comms also give you a huge tactical advantage. They allow you to know what is happening somewhere else and by knowing that information, allow you to plan for those situations. You can be PROACTIVE, rather than REACTIVE."
Thanks!
Semper Fi back. Clearly you are the real deal.
Teufelshund
06-11-12, 14:31
The Yaesu FT-897D is (imo) the best reasonably priced radio available for what we're talking about. After a simple modification, it is capable of transmitting 1.8-56mHz with no gaps, 136-173mHz no gaps, and 410-470mHz no gaps. Also, it is capable of USB/LSB, AM, FM, CW, and digital modes right out of the box. It puts out 100w of power on external 12V/23A power, and is capable of 20 watts on optional INTERNAL rechargeable LiPo battery packs. It has two very capable auto-tuners available for it, and they can be bolted right to the side of the rig..........
.
Another great post. Thanks Quiet Shooter. Been looking at that Yaesu myself for some time! I think your post pushed me over the edge for buying it. And yes, please keep the info coming. Cutting and pasting your post to save on Word if you don't mind.
BTW, your avatar looks like a USP...I applaud your choice there too. I have the same weapon, also threaded with suppressor (AAC), UTL, jet funnel, and 30 round mag. Built it because I've decided that I don't want to destroy my hearing if I have to quickly grab a weapon and discharge it in the house in the middle of the night. LOL. Obviously, too big and bulky for other uses, so it stays in the bed stand. Have an identical weapon which stays in the truck. Carry and duty weapons are are couple of USPC's (one mine, the other Uncle Sam's). My full size USP had Variant 1 triggers...sent them to HK to convert from Variant 1 to LEM, so now all four have LEM triggers, which I really love. Anyhow, thanks again for the great post!
Nathan_Bell
07-08-12, 07:32
Have been digging around and pondering on this subject for the past couple months and think I have a setup chosen, but looking for some feedback before I drop the $$.
Radio.
Yaesu FT-857D.
1. Same guts as the 897D.
2. Smaller chassis than the 897D and a remote mountable face.
Tuner.
YT-100.
1. Same functionality as the unit QS s running, but is the 'universal' Yaesu application, not specific to the 897D.
Batteries.
Buddipole (yeah, gay a$$ed name) 4S3P A123 battery pack
1. It feeds the radio 13.2 v and so you do not drop into the 20 W transmit power range that the 897D does when on its internal power.
Antenna.
Still up in the air for mobile operations.
For at home usage looking at going the NVIS clothesline approach.
My thinking here is. I can get the YT-857D, fab a chassis to hold the radio and two sets of batteries and still have it small enough to go into/onto a ruck for mobile usage, as well as pumping full power off of batteries, and then just plug the radio into a powersupply at home for it to act as a base station as well.
If this works, and I like the radio. Look at getting the same setup, minus the batteries, and mounting it in my truck. That way I only have to learn how to use one radio and learn how to fix one radio.
QuietShootr
07-08-12, 09:53
Have been digging around and pondering on this subject for the past couple months and think I have a setup chosen, but looking for some feedback before I drop the $$.
Radio.
Yaesu FT-857D.
1. Same guts as the 897D.
2. Smaller chassis than the 897D and a remote mountable face.
Tuner.
YT-100.
1. Same functionality as the unit QS s running, but is the 'universal' Yaesu application, not specific to the 897D.
Batteries.
Buddipole (yeah, gay a$$ed name) 4S3P A123 battery pack
1. It feeds the radio 13.2 v and so you do not drop into the 20 W transmit power range that the 897D does when on its internal power.
Antenna.
Still up in the air for mobile operations.
For at home usage looking at going the NVIS clothesline approach.
My thinking here is. I can get the YT-857D, fab a chassis to hold the radio and two sets of batteries and still have it small enough to go into/onto a ruck for mobile usage, as well as pumping full power off of batteries, and then just plug the radio into a powersupply at home for it to act as a base station as well.
If this works, and I like the radio. Look at getting the same setup, minus the batteries, and mounting it in my truck. That way I only have to learn how to use one radio and learn how to fix one radio.
I think that's a great, well thought out plan.
For mobile, I use an AS/2259 whip with a PRC-119 adapter(I think that's what it is) mounted at a 45 degree angle on a mount I welded to a hitch ball. I use existing nets for testing purposes most of the time (since I'm not a chatter, I really only want to talk to who I want to talk to) and was able to check into a net control station in Texas and another in the Catskills with no problem, and that's just running 100w. An amp would be great for mobile use - run that ****er up to 200, 300, or 500w and see what happens.
Anyway, good plan. I'm going to add an 857 to my vehicle permanently at some point, since the mount I fabbed for the 897 and tuner makes for a large package in the truck. It would be a lot cleaner to put the control head on the dash and stow the actual unit somewhere else, maybe behind the back seat.
Nathan_Bell
07-08-12, 17:45
I was kicking around going with a long low antenna on the truck, will have to tinker and see what works the best.
of course I need to get to the point that I am crushing the practice tech and general tests.
I think that's a great, well thought out plan.
For mobile, I use an AS/2259 whip with a PRC-119 adapter(I think that's what it is) mounted at a 45 degree angle on a mount I welded to a hitch ball. I use existing nets for testing purposes most of the time (since I'm not a chatter, I really only want to talk to who I want to talk to) and was able to check into a net control station in Texas and another in the Catskills with no problem, and that's just running 100w. An amp would be great for mobile use - run that ****er up to 200, 300, or 500w and see what happens.
Anyway, good plan. I'm going to add an 857 to my vehicle permanently at some point, since the mount I fabbed for the 897 and tuner makes for a large package in the truck. It would be a lot cleaner to put the control head on the dash and stow the actual unit somewhere else, maybe behind the back seat.
Nathan and QS,
everytime I hear (read) mobile, I think foot mobile.
I have come to think that the best way to do foot mobile is with a dedicated manpack. Having no knowledge of such things., I will defer to QS and other more knowledgeable.
As for vehicle mounting, I think the Icom 7000 offers a superior approach - only one cable to run from the remote head to the body, versus 2 (mic and head) for the FT-857.
But, my main point in writing this was to point out some interesting hardware:
A 45W solid state amp, designed for the FT-817 (http://www.tokyohypower.com/hl-45b.html). Manufacturer has other solid state amps, and AFAIK, is well regarded in mobile circles.
I can't understand why some people would trade an 857 with full 100W for almost the same weight and 50W less power. More boxes, more wires, more complexity...
I have one LDG Z-100Ultra that works automagically with the 817 and 857. I got one that has internal batteries (AAs) from W4RT. Unfortunately that has been discontinued.
And for man portable operation (as in set camp, raise antennae) I am leaning towards a magloop. Alex sells them (http://www.alexloop.com/). I know the guy, he is passionate about his antennae and really strives for the best.
His set up is so, so simple as to (seemingly) almost defeat a manpack. One can carry the disassembled loop in a pocket and one minute later be on the air.
Given the small size of the loop, it makes for a good stealth option. Also, works better than small sized dipoles mounted at comparable heights.
QuietShootr
07-09-12, 07:08
Nathan and QS,
everytime I hear (read) mobile, I think foot mobile.
I have come to think that the best way to do foot mobile is with a dedicated manpack. Having no knowledge of such things., I will defer to QS and other more knowledgeable.
As for vehicle mounting, I think the Icom 7000 offers a superior approach - only one cable to run from the remote head to the body, versus 2 (mic and head) for the FT-857.
But, my main point in writing this was to point out some interesting hardware|:
A 45W solid state amp, designed for the FT-817 (http://www.tokyohypower.com/hl-45b.html). Manufacturer has other solid state amps, and AFAIK, is well regarded in mobile circles.
LDG has smart auto-tuners (http://www.ldgelectronics.com/). I have one that works automagically with the 817 and 857. I got one that has internal batteries (AAs) from another vendor (W4RT)
And for man portable operation (as in set camp, raise antennae) I am leaning towards a magloop. Alex sells them (http://www.alexloop.com/). I know the guy, he is passionate about his antennae and really strives for the best.
His set up is so, so simple aas to almost defeat a manpack. One can carry the disassembled loop in a pocket and one minute later be on the air.
Given the small size of the loop, it makes for a good stealth option. Also, works better than small sized dipoles mounted at comparable heights.
http://www.rfwiz.com/VertexStandard/Mobiles/VX-1210_InfoDat.htm
And the Alexloops are indeed interesting, but they're outrageously expensive, and I don't think he makes one for 80 meters that will handle 50-100 watts.
http://www.rfwiz.com/VertexStandard/Mobiles/VX-1210_InfoDat.htm
Yeah, I guess it could not possibly get simpler than that.
I would say heavy, but maybe not by much, maybe even lighter that most setups.
So, would you reccomend one? Also, what else would be needed for me to be self-sufficient with it?
And the Alexloops are indeed interesting, but they're outrageously expensive, and I don't think he makes one for 80 meters that will handle 50-100 watts.
No, I've already talked to him about that. Due to my current license restrictions, I can only operate voice (I know...) on 80. Since I am living in an apartment bldg, I have no real estate to put up antennae...
A loop for that band/power needs a large, heavy capacitor that, in the end, is no more portable that a roll of thin gauge wire for a low dipole.
See here http://www.n6na.org/magloop (bottom of page)
Here in Brazil, locating good variable capacitors, that can whitstand transmitting is quite hard. When Alex started, he built his variables from virgin circuit plates... There, in the US, it might be easier.
I've tried to build myself an magloop, with magnificenf failure... YMMV, though.
QuietShootr
07-09-12, 08:16
Yeah, I guess it could not possibly get simpler than that.
I would say heavy, but maybe not by much, maybe even lighter that most setups.
So, would you reccomend one? Also, what else would be needed for me to be self-sufficient with it?
No, I've already talked to him about that. Due to my current license restrictions, I can only operate voice (I know...) on 80. Since I am living in an apartment bldg, I have no real estate to put up antennae...
A loop for that band/power needs a large, heavy capacitor that, in the end, is no more portable that a roll of thin gauge wire for a low dipole.
See here http://www.n6na.org/magloop (bottom of page)
Here in Brazil, locating good variable capacitors, that can whitstand transmitting is quite hard. When Alex started, he built his variables from virgin circuit plates... There, in the US, it might be easier.
I've tried to build myself an magloop, with magnificenf failure... YMMV, though.
Yes - when I can divert the jack from other projects, I'm going to get one. They're solid and idiot proof. Your only other option is a used military radio like a PRC-320 (which I have one of) and again while they do work, it's a mighty pain in the ass to make anything work WITH them - they use 24v instead of 12, the connectors are all nonstandard, and they weigh about twice what they need to. It would be very possible (and neater than shit) for someone to make a 20-50w man-portable, rugged HF rig that is not much bigger than a current 2m HT using COTS tech, but I guess the market would be limited to guys like us - and since the average ham is wheezing with effort to waddle from his "shack" to his refrigerator, I bet that market is small indeed.
Nathan_Bell
07-13-12, 20:16
Lawyer was cheaper than a title company, so I had the $$ to order my radio and tuner yesterday. Went with the 857D and YT-100 tuner.
Now planning my base station antennas.
A friend states that he has a good mast antenna, that he will give me, so I will hopefully have my LOS and skywave setup in before the snow arrives.
So that leaves the NVIS setup. He mentioned, what he called, a clothesline setup. I will describe it and hopefully get advice if it sound like it will work or if he is blowing smoke.
You have 2 stout end poles whose tops are at the height that you want to have your antenna. Then set a cross beam at a useful clothesline height. Use something like this http://www.lehmans.com/store/Home_Goods___Laundry___Drying___Premium_Clothesline_Kits___clothesline#108069511426501142655 for your two clotheslines, and you get a semi-non-obvious antenna.
I have been doing a lot of online reading on NVIS and am concerned that a metal line that is not grounded, which I would guess a rubber coated cable would not be, would mess up signal propagation, but I am still in the reading, not doing, let alone BTDT stage of things so....?
QuietShootr
07-13-12, 20:23
Lawyer was cheaper than a title company, so I had the $$ to order my radio and tuner yesterday. Went with the 857D and YT-100 tuner.
Now planning my base station antennas.
A friend states that he has a good mast antenna, that he will give me, so I will hopefully have my LOS and skywave setup in before the snow arrives.
So that leaves the NVIS setup. He mentioned, what he called, a clothesline setup. I will describe it and hopefully get advice if it sound like it will work or if he is blowing smoke.
You have 2 stout end poles whose tops are at the height that you want to have your antenna. Then set a cross beam at a useful clothesline height. Use something like this http://www.lehmans.com/store/Home_Goods___Laundry___Drying___Premium_Clothesline_Kits___clothesline#108069511426501142655 for your two clotheslines, and you get a semi-non-obvious antenna.
I have been doing a lot of online reading on NVIS and am concerned that a metal line that is not grounded, which I would guess a rubber coated cable would not be, would mess up signal propagation, but I am still in the reading, not doing, let alone BTDT stage of things so....?
Are you talking about stringing a low dipole between clothesline poles? In order to be useful at 80M (where most of your NVIS work will be done) it will need to be about 140' between the poles (70' or so on each side of the dipole. Or are you talking about an end-fed arrangement?
Nathan_Bell
07-13-12, 20:32
Are you talking about stringing a low dipole between clothesline poles? In order to be useful at 80M (where most of your NVIS work will be done) it will need to be about 140' between the poles (70' or so on each side of the dipole. Or are you talking about an end-fed arrangement?
He stated that the 75' version of that clothesline kit would work perfectly. Beyond that, I have no idea of what he has in mind.
rant on/ I hate sounding like a dilettante /rant off
Nathan_Bell
07-15-12, 09:08
He stated that the 75' version of that clothesline kit would work perfectly. Beyond that, I have no idea of what he has in mind.
rant on/ I hate sounding like a dilettante /rant off
Ok got to talk to Ron yesterday. Apparently I didn't get the entire design right.
He says that the clothesline poles should look like an old utility pole. Two cross pieces. Top one at antenna height, and second one at clothesline height. Top needs to be a meter wide and he said to run the dipole lines parallel at the outer points of the crosspiece with the center feed on the end nearest the shack.
Starting to lose the 'low profile' design I was hoping for.
Ok got to talk to Ron yesterday. Apparently I didn't get the entire design right.
He says that the clothesline poles should look like an old utility pole. Two cross pieces. Top one at antenna height, and second one at clothesline height. Top needs to be a meter wide and he said to run the dipole lines parallel at the outer points of the crosspiece with the center feed on the end nearest the shack.
Starting to lose the 'low profile' design I was hoping for.
That's sounding like it's getting complicated.....
Why not just get a good G5RV and get the two ends as high as possible?
QuietShootr
07-15-12, 20:12
Ok got to talk to Ron yesterday. Apparently I didn't get the entire design right.
He says that the clothesline poles should look like an old utility pole. Two cross pieces. Top one at antenna height, and second one at clothesline height. Top needs to be a meter wide and he said to run the dipole lines parallel at the outer points of the crosspiece with the center feed on the end nearest the shack.
Starting to lose the 'low profile' design I was hoping for.
Way too complicated. Do this: make a 80m dipole, center feed it with a piece of plastic and ladder line, and string it between two poles (or trees, whatever) about 8-15' off the ground. (caveat: I've seen it work using 12" tent stakes to get it off the ground. Not impossible, but what I'm going to suggest works better most of the time) now - take three pieces of wire, cut them about 10% longer than your complete dipole, and lay them on the ground, one directly under the dipole, and the other two about six feet to either side. This is a passive reflector, and it works well for NVIS - remember, you're trying to get that signal to go straight up, which is the opposite of what a G5RV is intended for.
You can even bury the wires a couple of inches just to keep them from fouling your lawnmower, or whatever. If you order a mile spool of WD-1 off of eBay you'll have two miles of strong wire for this kind of tomfoolery.
Have been digging around and pondering on this subject for the past couple months and think I have a setup chosen, but looking for some feedback before I drop the
Batteries.
Buddipole (yeah, gay a$$ed name)
Gay name, quality antenna, if you run it with even a cheap tripod they're extremely flexible. They're good enough a significant program of record just started picking those up for our recon boxes as a supplemental antenna, and they're better than the older issue ones on performance and weight.
As for NVIS layout, even braided copper, or slash wire will do, but if you can elevate the entire loop (assuming you're doing a loop or square NVIS) by 1/4 wavelength, you'll get better results on longer stuff, or for more permanent stuff, a full half wave in elevation is a huge amplification. The last step would be to lay out a simple ground counterpoise (this can be cheaper wire) and just run that on the ground directly below it, which directs more of the signal up and improves gain coming down. A simple center fed dipole of the same design works great too, the biggest reason to go with a square one is if you're lapping it around a building, or specific open space. Just as QS said, the passive reflector being the same (if a loop) or a touch bigger on a dipole is ideal - you can get away with as little as 105% on the reflectors and 95% on director elements pretty easily, but oversize single reflector isn't an issue at all.
Nathan_Bell
07-17-12, 08:53
That could be their marketing tagline. :p
Had heard good things about their products, just guess I am to juvenile for the name to not make me shake my head.
On to my NVIS layout.
Think I can do your idea it would be running almost due North-South.
Radio arrived yesterday.
Gay name, quality antenna, if you run it with even a cheap tripod they're extremely flexible. They're good enough a significant program of record just started picking those up for our recon boxes as a supplemental antenna, and they're better than the older issue ones on performance and weight.
As for NVIS layout, even braided copper, or slash wire will do, but if you can elevate the entire loop (assuming you're doing a loop or square NVIS) by 1/4 wavelength, you'll get better results on longer stuff, or for more permanent stuff, a full half wave in elevation is a huge amplification. The last step would be to lay out a simple ground counterpoise (this can be cheaper wire) and just run that on the ground directly below it, which directs more of the signal up and improves gain coming down. A simple center fed dipole of the same design works great too, the biggest reason to go with a square one is if you're lapping it around a building, or specific open space. Just as QS said, the passive reflector being the same (if a loop) or a touch bigger on a dipole is ideal - you can get away with as little as 105% on the reflectors and 95% on director elements pretty easily, but oversize single reflector isn't an issue at all.
QuietShootr
07-17-12, 12:06
That could be their marketing tagline. :p
Had heard good things about their products, just guess I am to juvenile for the name to not make me shake my head.
On to my NVIS layout.
Think I can do your idea it would be running almost due North-South.
Radio arrived yesterday.
If/when you have your call sign, PM it to me and we can try a linkup.
manderson2228
08-05-12, 22:37
Found this website a few weeks ago. Website is dedicate to ham radio, as it related to being a prepper, pretty good info on there.
www.preparedham.com
QuietShootr
08-22-12, 14:09
http://rf.harris.com/media/ANPRC150-brochure_tcm26-9019.pdf
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100923210152/simpsons/images/b/b4/Homer_drool.jpg
Tweightwee
08-23-12, 20:46
http://rf.harris.com/media/ANPRC150-brochure_tcm26-9019.pdf
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100923210152/simpsons/images/b/b4/Homer_drool.jpg
Indeed. (http://www.railce.com/cw/casc/harris/HB-AN-PRC-150C.pdf)
I'd love a civi version of that.
QuietShootr
09-01-12, 09:22
20m is hot today. Lots of storm action on 14300. I just talked to the net control in Mexico City.
alienb1212
09-02-12, 06:08
20m is hot today. Lots of storm action on 14300. I just talked to the net control in Mexico City.
Ugh wish I could join you...I'm still short a power supply and an antenna that I can fit in my small apartment.. =|
QuietShootr
09-02-12, 11:03
Splurge a little and order yourself a Signalink USB. You'll be able to do stuff that will amaze you on digital with the tiniest amount of power and the shittiest antenna.
alienb1212
09-02-12, 12:45
Splurge a little and order yourself a Signalink USB. You'll be able to do stuff that will amaze you on digital with the tiniest amount of power and the shittiest antenna.
Already on the way...any small 20m antenna designs you can point me towards that will work for a very limited inside space? I'm more for listening at the moment.
Couple of questions.
Is there some easy way to figure just what any given radio can do in non-technical terms.
EX.
Can these do this type scenario....
2M handheld
--------------
What can it listen to in general and from how far away.
Can it communicate with a typical marine VHF. so if you were on a boat in teh bay you could just as easily talk to other boats.
Why so many memories? How would you typically use them?
NVIS - can handhelds do NVIS?
Desktop models
----------------
Is there an easy way to tell in practical non-radio speak what you can hear or send.
Signalink USB
----------------
What exactly does that do? What do you gain from it?
Listening to general radio broadcast. Music, news, ( are those two types of broadcast even available ) whatever,,, what is the sound quality ( when connected to proper speakers - obviously a handheld won't sound like much )
alienb1212
09-05-12, 21:52
Most 2 meter handhelds can monitor 136-174mhz which includes some aircraft, and the majority of non-p25 public service bands. As well as the Marine band frequencies. Just Marine bands being programmed take up 50+ channels.
Memories are for multiple settings for channel frequencies, tones, input/output freqs and other things. Why not have lots of memory room?
Handhelds cannot do NVIS.
"desktop" models are usually just more powerful as far as wattage and some high end radios will have more features than handhelds. Honestly I'm not breaking every feature down.
Signalink is a USB interface for your radio to go to a computer, you can use your radio as (over simplified explanation) a giant wireless card, capable of communicating using digital signals all over the world with other computers.
Sound quality varies greatly on so many different factors.
FM on 144mhz a few miles away will generally sound pretty good.
SSB on 80m may sound kind of tinny, or compressed. So many different variables to really go over them all.
Ok, thanks.... I get the memory deal now. Like presets on a regular radio.
I didn't get the concept of "bands" and "frequencies". I found a chart of bands and can now see where the freqs. sit within that realm.
http://www.panix.com/clay/scanning/frequencies.html
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Hambands_color.pdf
I also was assuming that for the price of base station unit that they could simply receive pretty much everything to include basic AM and FM.
I see the NIVS bands now as well and see that 2M handheld simply doesn't operate in that range.
I think I was having, and still am to a degree, the segmentation of everything. Everyone I have ever known that was into HAM radio was into hacking it as well and I just assumed by now things must be wide open as to gear and what it can do. But apparently they are still built to do specific things and not allow other things.
So is it safe to say if you needed to hear say a local AM broadcast for emergency you still need a basic radio, but if you needed to hear local FM your radio would need to be able to receive 88 - 108 Mhz either by default or modification.
QuietShootr
09-06-12, 07:56
Signalink is a USB interface for your radio to go to a computer, you can use your radio as (over simplified explanation) a giant wireless card, capable of communicating using digital signals all over the world with other computers.
And it requires stunningly less power to do the same job. I was talking to a friend in Arizona last night on 20m digital using 15w of power with 100% copy. He could copy me down to 5w, but was only down to about 50% at that power level.
For you non-hackers :D, that means I was chatting on a netbook (like the chat room on BFT, or like AIM), powered only by a small car battery, using about the same amount of power it would take to run a short string of Christmas lights. To the ear, the signal is not even audible - Olivia (the mode) is usable when a voice link is impossible due to conditions.
OK, but if I'm clear you were using a base station for that right? Not a 2M handheld ( because a 2M handheld can't do 20M? ) But then you say a car battery so I wonder was it a base station type radio?
Olivia?
alienb1212
09-06-12, 08:16
OK, but if I'm clear you were using a base station for that right? Not a 2M handheld ( because a 2M handheld can't do 20M? ) But then you say a car battery so I wonder was it a base station type radio?
Olivia?
It was a base station. Olivia is a digital mode.
QuietShootr
09-06-12, 08:27
It was a base station. Olivia is a digital mode.
I have it set up so I can use it anywhere. I posted pics of the setup once. It's an FT897 with a Dell netbook and a portable antenna.
alienb1212
09-06-12, 08:28
I have it set up so I can use it anywhere. I posted pics of the setup once. It's an FT897 with a Dell netbook and a portable antenna.
Yeah but those pics are now down, I never got a chance to see it :P
Any way you'd repost?
OK,,,, one more question.....
on this radio.....
http://www.twowayradioonline.com/VX6R.asp
Frequency Range Receive:
0.5 - 1.8 MHz (BC Band)
1.8 - 30 MHz (Shortwave Band)
30 - 59 MHz (6 Meter Amateur)
59 - 108 MHz (FM)
108 - 137 MHz (Air Band)
137 - 174 MHz (144 MHz HAM)
174 - 222 MHz (VHF-TV)
222 - 420 MHz (ACT1: Action Band 1)
420 - 470 MHz (430 MHz HAM)
470 - 729 MHz (UHF-TV)
803 - 998.99 MHz (ACT2: Action Band 2 Cellular Blocked)
It looks like to me I could listen to.....
1140 AM - popular talk radio station here in town.
on the .5 - 1.8 Mhz band.
96.5 FM - popular rock station here
on the 59 - 108 Mhz band.
... basically anything else as well that falls in the range on those listed receive bands as it relates to this document...
http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/table/fcctable.pdf
and.. because that is a "3 Band Radio" I can transmit on -segments- of the 3 bands noted ( provided I have a license ).
Frequency Range Transmit:
144 - 148 Mhz --- the 2M band or subset of receive band noted above
222 - 225 MHz --- the 1.25M band or subset of ACT1 above
430 - 450 MHz --- 70cm(420Mhz) band or subset of 430 Mhz HAM noted above.
....and.. if I modded this radio, provided it could even be modded... I could possibly add some more transmit bands turning it into a 4,5 or 6 band depending on what was enabled. It is also my understanding the amplification on this additional enabled bands may be quite diminished over the normal factory 3 bands.
Am I on track here? If so, then a radio like that could function to hear public broadcast if needed. Which is what I thought to begin with. Receive a lot / Transmit on a little.
alienb1212
09-06-12, 17:52
Stuff
Going to give you the answer I was given a few years back and didn't like, but took it and decided to go with;
Get the ARRL technician level license book. Study, get your license, and start working on General.
This forum really isn't intended for "Teach me how to be a ham!" and while I'm sure everyone's happy to help, you really need to start doing the research and learning on your own/with a local club and a good mentor.
That said the radio you linked when modified only transmits further out on the existing xmit bands, it doesn't add more.
IE for 2m, default xmit is 144-148mhz, modifying it will open 136-174mhz.
It will not add transmit bands to the radio.
Yeah, I was having the same thought..... The book arrives Monday.
I actually used to know a guy who knew this stuff upside down backwards and forwards. But I'm not sure where he is any longer.
I've been trying to find some decent Youtube videos but haven't hit on anything that knocks my socks off yet.
I think it's starting to fall into place a bit though.
alienb1212
09-06-12, 21:21
Yeah, I was having the same thought..... The book arrives Monday.
I actually used to know a guy who knew this stuff upside down backwards and forwards. But I'm not sure where he is any longer.
I've been trying to find some decent Youtube videos but haven't hit on anything that knocks my socks off yet.
I think it's starting to fall into place a bit though.
Good call, it's really not that difficult.
I really think if more people knew how friendly the folks were, (especially the older gentlemen that tend to dominate the hobby) and how easy learning the stuff is, more would get interested.
Yep, that's how the guy I used to know was. He actually has patents with AT&T. He could pretty much do it all. Tubes, computers, HAM, digital. I met him through computer classes.
I actually find myself driving just outside of town at times and loose my cell service. It would be nice to have a radio if something went wrong I might actually have a shot at getting some help.
alienb1212
09-10-12, 06:05
Trying to figure out if P25 radios can operate in secure mode without a central controller...hmm.
Seen quite a few pop up on eBay recently. Lots of deals like $600 for 5 radios and a gang charger..hmm
Under a grand for some secure VHF radios? Yessir!
faithmyeyes
09-13-12, 12:10
Trying to figure out if P25 radios can operate in secure mode without a central controller...hmm.
Seen quite a few pop up on eBay recently. Lots of deals like $600 for 5 radios and a gang charger..hmm
Under a grand for some secure VHF radios? Yessir!
If I understand correctly, P25 radios can operate point-to-point, via a repeater, or as part of a trunked system, either with or without encryption. There have been a number of publications detailing security problems with P25, though, so I'd research it carefully for your application before trusting anything mission-critical to it.
Be careful of the "deals" on eBay. If you get several radios that have dead batteries or require a radio shop to program them for you, the hassle and expense of making them usable for you can quickly sour any deal you might have gotten.
Additionally, most of these types of radios are designed to operate in the FCC Part 90 LMR bands (in the USA, anyway). As far as I can tell, there's no way for, say, a household who wanted to set up a comm system with this type of radio to even get a license. If you've found a way around that, though, I'd love to hear about it.
alienb1212
09-13-12, 12:20
If I understand correctly, P25 radios can operate point-to-point, via a repeater, or as part of a trunked system, either with or without encryption. There have been a number of publications detailing security problems with P25, though, so I'd research it carefully for your application before trusting anything mission-critical to it.
Be careful of the "deals" on eBay. If you get several radios that have dead batteries or require a radio shop to program them for you, the hassle and expense of making them usable for you can quickly sour any deal you might have gotten.
Additionally, most of these types of radios are designed to operate in the FCC Part 90 LMR bands (in the USA, anyway). As far as I can tell, there's no way for, say, a household who wanted to set up a comm system with this type of radio to even get a license. If you've found a way around that, though, I'd love to hear about it.
The radios I had seen and was researching could operate in the ham bands, which is what I would be primarily using them for. Switching to "Secure" mode was more or less intended for a SHTF event, where we weren't really worrying about the legal ramifications of using comms equipment out-of-band.
Thanks for the heads up about the programming and batteries, I was aware of that but some people that read and don't post might not have been.
way too much info to read in one night..but great info.
Okay, I've done a little research on this idea and wanted to run it by you all before I waste anymore brain cells trying to figure out stuff way above my IQ-level.
Here's my thought: a number of mobile wifi routers mated to (probably) two/three times the number of smartphones running a software package like Skype, with headsets, boom mikes, whatever. The mobile router/s forms a local, low power network that the smartphones link up to and communicate through via WiFi, eliminating the need for any cell coverage. With enhanced antenna, the wifi routers wouldn't have a range beyond a couple of football fields, so DF danger would be low, you're able to encrypt your communications (not possible with the bubble pack FRS systems), also able to broadcast your GPS location to others on the network, text instead of voice when necessary, etc. People may not even have the ability or think to look for signals in that range, or if the cell system is still up and running for some reason, there would be too much interference to DF your signal.
Some of the mobile routers I've seen will run for several hours and can recharge via USB. Mate that with a Goal Zero solar panel set up on your packs and you could keep it up and running pretty much continuously.
I'm thinking of a group of folks moving for whatever reason. Being able to have secure communications over even 100 yards would be a significant advantage I would think. Plus, everything is fairly inexpensive hardware wise, and all the software is currently available. No ad hoc rigging needed.
Anyway, just a thought, would love some feedback.
QuietShootr
09-28-12, 08:58
Okay, I've done a little research on this idea and wanted to run it by you all before I waste anymore brain cells trying to figure out stuff way above my IQ-level.
Here's my thought: a number of mobile wifi routers mated to (probably) two/three times the number of smartphones running a software package like Skype, with headsets, boom mikes, whatever. The mobile router/s forms a local, low power network that the smartphones link up to and communicate through via WiFi, eliminating the need for any cell coverage. With enhanced antenna, the wifi routers wouldn't have a range beyond a couple of football fields, so DF danger would be low, you're able to encrypt your communications (not possible with the bubble pack FRS systems), also able to broadcast your GPS location to others on the network, text instead of voice when necessary, etc. People may not even have the ability or think to look for signals in that range, or if the cell system is still up and running for some reason, there would be too much interference to DF your signal.
Some of the mobile routers I've seen will run for several hours and can recharge via USB. Mate that with a Goal Zero solar panel set up on your packs and you could keep it up and running pretty much continuously.
I'm thinking of a group of folks moving for whatever reason. Being able to have secure communications over even 100 yards would be a significant advantage I would think. Plus, everything is fairly inexpensive hardware wise, and all the software is currently available. No ad hoc rigging needed.
Anyway, just a thought, would love some feedback.
That's a fan-****ing-tastic idea, and I think some guys have already done something similar.
Let's work on this. It may be the poor man's answer to the near-unavailable IP-based squad radios.
Edit: I bet the Iphone 3GS would be a perfect platform for this, since they're available CHEAP.
Edit 2: Got it!
http://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/wireless/modify.html
http://outernet.wikidot.com/
http://doodlelabs.com/products/56-products-and-services-overview.html
http://hsmm-mesh.org/
PA PATRIOT
09-28-12, 15:34
I went cheap buying four Midland Two Way Business Radios, Waterproof, VHF Band Type, 1-5 Output Watts, Rechargeable radios when they were on sale at $49.99 each for bug-out emergency use and found clear channels and very good range running at 5 watts.
With a enhanced base station and decent mast antenna at 60 feet height we have gotten excellent results for little money spent.
http://productimages.grainger.com/is/image/Grainger/9LMT6_AS01?$productdetail$
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/MIDLAND-RADIO-Two-Way-Business-Radio-9LMT6?Pid=search
More NVIS info if anyone is interested.
http://www.w5jck.com/nvis/W5JCK-NVIS-Antenna-Presentation.pdf
Still studying for the exam. Hope to test for the Tech and Gen in a couple weeks.
alienb1212
09-29-12, 19:33
That's a fan-****ing-tastic idea, and I think some guys have already done something similar.
Let's work on this. It may be the poor man's answer to the near-unavailable IP-based squad radios.
Edit: I bet the Iphone 3GS would be a perfect platform for this, since they're available CHEAP.
Edit 2: Got it!
http://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/wireless/modify.html
http://outernet.wikidot.com/
http://doodlelabs.com/products/56-products-and-services-overview.html
http://hsmm-mesh.org/
I've heard of private CDMA/GSM networks being used overseas. Wondering what goes into their setup. Having the ability to reprogram the GSM phones that everyone's bound to have seems like a great idea, if it's practical.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.