View Full Version : UCLA Study: Taxpayers Foot 70 Percent Of California’s Health Care Tab
30 cal slut
09-01-16, 07:26
Glorious day, comrades.
Most people aren't aware that expansion of medicaid (state healthcare coverage for the poor, provided FREE) was a key component of obongocare.
Good read.
http://californiahealthline.org/news/ucla-study-taxpayers-foot-70-percent-of-californias-health-care-tab/?utm_campaign=KHN%3A+First+Edition&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=33705355&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9baZEX9vlwJMbTO9KqGjBVUv2ujB3Jsf9-IFN8I_JFoztQpPX8xpNqHWCm5rqHuGwwaVC7FqSTpXSyH9sr7XDHS1bZnw&_hsmi=33705355
UCLA Study: Taxpayers Foot 70 Percent Of California’s Health Care Tab
By Ana B. Ibarra
August 31, 2016
This year, taxpayers will cover about 70 percent of what is spent on health care in California, according to a new analysis released Wednesday by the UCLA Center for Health Policy Research.
Many people assume that the U.S. health care system is primarily supported by private dollars, such as insurance premiums from employer-based coverage, said Gerald Kominski, director of the UCLA Center for Health Policy Research and the study’s lead author.
But that’s no longer the case, at least in California — mostly because of its massive expansion of Medi-Cal, the state’s version of Medicaid, he said.
“There’s this myth that we have a mostly privately funded health care system, but we’re approaching a point in which almost three quarters of this system is funded by public money,” Kominski said. “Now a question to ask ourselves is: when do we reach the tipping point and say ‘this is essentially a public system?’”
........
Kali taxpayers or U.S. taxpayers?
30 cal slut
09-01-16, 07:39
both .......
both .......
That's funny seeing as how I always hear the Left's talking points about how blue states are actually supporting red states financially. Kali is the biggest blue state there is!
30 cal slut
09-01-16, 07:49
to say nothing of the noo yawk snowbirds who infect florida and the carolinas
Eurodriver
09-01-16, 07:54
When the government pays for everything you get, they can tell you exactly what to do.
Averageman
09-01-16, 08:54
When the government pays for everything you get, they can tell you exactly what to do.
And what medical services you're not going to get.
Who is going to give a seventy year old man hip replacement, even if he is in excellent health and has been active all of his life? Once they pay for all of your medical services, you're likely as not, to be very unhappy with the little service you get.
And what medical services you're not going to get.
Who is going to give a seventy year old man hip replacement, even if he is in excellent health and has been active all of his life? Once they pay for all of your medical services, you're likely as not, to be very unhappy with the little service you get.
And that is the most important part to remember. Gotta save those revenues for the 20-something welfare recipient who has been shot while "reading my bible on the front porch" or Sha-nay-nay who has spit out five kids or has a fever and takes the bambulance to the ER instead of a freaking Tylenol.
That's funny seeing as how I always hear the Left's talking points about how blue states are actually supporting red states financially. Kali is the biggest blue state there is!
That shit always makes me laugh.
They have all the states with shrinking populations and vacated wastelands.
it's not as if the taxpayers weren't footing the bill before...
obama care hasn't really changed anything except optics. taxpayers were footing the bill before. insurance holders were footing the bill before. this hasn't revolutionized anything for the positive or the negative. some very small amount of people may have slightly different problems or costs now, but it's all largely just the same stuff different day.
That shit always makes me laugh.
They have all the states with shrinking populations and vacated wastelands.
They have a shrinking producing population
The wasteland population will Increase
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
I think it's funny when middle class people complain about poor people reproducing and immigrating. middle class people should reproduce more. then there would be less resources for poor people to step in on.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-01-16, 09:39
Yep, that's been the issue is that we already have govt run healthcare. The issue is that we use the same facilities for the 'free' care that we use for private insurance. You'll have an illegal getting free care on the hospitals dime, a medicaid person and a private insurance person and their would be no care if it weren't for the private insurance. Medicaid pays just enough to basically cover direct costs and keep some lights on. Without the private insurance money, you'd not have the level of care for all three.
This idea that medicare for all is a farce, because the health care system would implode if it had to run just on medicare money.
We need to get to a system where we have quality health care for those that aren't paying their fair share and then actually good quality for people that pay in.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-01-16, 09:42
I think it's funny when middle class people complain about poor people reproducing and immigrating. middle class people should reproduce more. then there would be less resources for poor people to step in on.
Having four kids used to be common and that kind of population growth drove our economy. Now we have 1-2 kids and then import a couple of Mexicans to cover the difference. Kids are expensive to raise in a middle class lifestyle, so we basically treat two kids like we used to treat all four kids, and the two Mexicans we imported we send to crappy schools and make them do the crappy jobs.
Having four kids used to be common and that kind of population growth drove our economy. Now we have 1-2 kids and then import a couple of Mexicans to cover the difference. Kids are expensive to raise in a middle class lifestyle, so we basically treat two kids like we used to treat all four kids, and the two Mexicans we imported we send to crappy schools and make them do the crappy jobs.
Hey compadre, unless you have a mouse in your pocket there ain't no "we" to importing Mexicans. I haven't told a damn one of 'em to come here or that they're welcome here. They "import" themselves by illegally crossing an international border and then many are hired (illegally) by businesses. Their lot in life is of their own choosing, helped along by those employers.
Averageman
09-01-16, 10:41
It's got to end somewhere.
The idea that we have a special facility here in Texas for Transexual immigrants, whom we are now going to provide 24-7-365 care for forevermore, but the VA is FUBAR and that's OK is morally questionable to say the least.
Yep, that's been the issue is that we already have govt run healthcare. The issue is that we use the same facilities for the 'free' care that we use for private insurance. You'll have an illegal getting free care on the hospitals dime, a medicaid person and a private insurance person and their would be no care if it weren't for the private insurance. Medicaid pays just enough to basically cover direct costs and keep some lights on. Without the private insurance money, you'd not have the level of care for all three.
This idea that medicare for all is a farce, because the health care system would implode if it had to run just on medicare money.
We need to get to a system where we have quality health care for those that aren't paying their fair share and then actually good quality for people that pay in.
This idea that medicare for all is a farce, because the health care system would implode if it had to run just on medicare money.
I think you need to do some reading on the subject, the AMA has a pretty big hand in setting the rates for medicare:
‘What started as an advisory group has taken on a life of its own,’ said Tom Scully, who was Medicare chief during the George W. Bush Administration and is now a partner in a private-equity firm that invests in health care. ‘The idea that $100 billion in federal spending is based on fixed prices that go through an industry trade association in a process that is not open to the public is pretty wild.’
Earlier this month, the Washington Post published a blockbuster front-page story about a secretive committee that determines what Medicare pays physicians for their work. Part of the American Medical Association (AMA), the committee estimates the time and intensity of various doctor tasks, and the recommendations are plugged into a formula that sets Medicare reimbursements. The committee overestimates the time it takes to perform myriad medical procedures, which thereby increases the amount doctors can earn from Medicare. One gastroenterologist in the Post story would have to work 26 hours, according to the committee time estimates, to accomplish what he gets done in a typical workday.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/07/29/the-secretive-group-behind-medicare-reimbursements/
Private Payer Reimbursement. Most, if not all, private payers tie their reimbursement rates to Medicare's. Contrary to widespread perception, private payers often reimburse at rates lower than Medicare.
http://www.physicianspractice.com/blog/how-medicare-other-payers-determine-physician-reimbursement-rates
Why not address the economics that are the root of the health care problem so it is affordable for all folks to have insurance?
My wife's knee replacement was billed at $45,000.00 they showed a $20,000.00 write off because insurance only paid $25,000.00 for the deal. They aren't going broke doing that, but yet if you roll in and don't have insurance they gouge you for the full $45,000.00.
I don't know if you have insurance, and how much you pay for that insurance. Up until I retired I had always worked for entities that provided insurance and my kick in had always been pretty reasonable, I thought. Taken in context, though, what I paid went up much, much quicker than my wages. In several years any increase in salary was eaten up in increased health insurance premiums - additionally my co-pays also rose.
We need to get a handle on it and we ain't going to do it sitting around bitching about poor people getting medicaide.
This idea that medicare for all is a farce, because the health care system would implode if it had to run just on medicare money.
I think you need to do some reading on the subject, the AMA has a pretty big hand in setting the rates for medicare:
‘What started as an advisory group has taken on a life of its own,’ said Tom Scully, who was Medicare chief during the George W. Bush Administration and is now a partner in a private-equity firm that invests in health care. ‘The idea that $100 billion in federal spending is based on fixed prices that go through an industry trade association in a process that is not open to the public is pretty wild.’
Earlier this month, the Washington Post published a blockbuster front-page story about a secretive committee that determines what Medicare pays physicians for their work. Part of the American Medical Association (AMA), the committee estimates the time and intensity of various doctor tasks, and the recommendations are plugged into a formula that sets Medicare reimbursements. The committee overestimates the time it takes to perform myriad medical procedures, which thereby increases the amount doctors can earn from Medicare. One gastroenterologist in the Post story would have to work 26 hours, according to the committee time estimates, to accomplish what he gets done in a typical workday.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/07/29/the-secretive-group-behind-medicare-reimbursements/
Private Payer Reimbursement. Most, if not all, private payers tie their reimbursement rates to Medicare's. Contrary to widespread perception, private payers often reimburse at rates lower than Medicare.
http://www.physicianspractice.com/blog/how-medicare-other-payers-determine-physician-reimbursement-rates
Why not address the economics that are the root of the health care problem so it is affordable for all folks to have insurance?
My wife's knee replacement was billed at $45,000.00 they showed a $20,000.00 write off because insurance only paid $25,000.00 for the deal. They aren't going broke doing that, but yet if you roll in and don't have insurance they gouge you for the full $45,000.00.
I don't know if you have insurance, and how much you pay for that insurance. Up until I retired I had always worked for entities that provided insurance and my kick in had always been pretty reasonable, I thought. Taken in context, though, what I paid went up much, much quicker than my wages. In several years any increase in salary was eaten up in increased health insurance premiums - additionally my co-pays also rose.
We need to get a handle on it and we ain't going to do it sitting around bitching about poor people getting medicaide.
Since "Obamacare" hit my kick-in has tripled while my co-pays are up 50%. My maximum out of pocket for the year deductible is up to 3,500 from 2,500 and it just keeps getting worse.
titsonritz
09-01-16, 11:23
As the saying goes, "If you think health care is expensive wait until it is free."
It's got to end somewhere.
The idea that we have a special facility here in Texas for Transexual immigrants, whom we are now going to provide 24-7-365 care for forevermore, but the VA is FUBAR and that's OK is morally questionable to say the least.
Are you ****ing serious?
Feds probably did that in Texas just as an "F U" to us. Obama hates Texas with a passion.
30 mo' years and a wake up. That's how I view life these days.
As the saying goes, "If you think health care is expensive wait until it is free."
I do not think that we want to go to 'free' universal healthcare, but on the other hand a totally free market is not going to work either. People who are having a heart attack, or whose children have a life threatening injury or illness are not consumers who normally have a choice. They generally don't have the knowledge, or the time to comparison shop. Getting fvcked on medical care is not the same as getting fvcked on a new car.
Bottom line is that many hospitals and some doctors, charge what they do because they can, their consumers are in no condition to, or of a mind to, argue price in the ER or on the way to the OR.
Some government intervention is needed, the sticky question is how much and what kind?
I have a feeling that some of the people braying about this subject on the different forums, blogs, etc. are folks who either have their insurance provided by an employer, are getting insurance as a retired service member, or are running without insurance and, in the case of a catastrophe, are going to leave those of us who have insurance footing the bill.
Falar: My kick-ins and co-pays did not triple, but they increased more than they had been increasing.
I think it's funny when middle class people complain about poor people reproducing and immigrating. middle class people should reproduce more. then there would be less resources for poor people to step in on.Middle class can't afford to reproduce as easily. Without insurance you are probably looking at over $10000 in bills for a child birth. Then you have to work to feed the kid and provide housing and provide additional healthcare when they get sick. If you're irresponsible all that is simply free. (Not that Section 8 housing is usually that great but you get what you pay for.)
Middle class can't afford to reproduce as easily. Without insurance you are probably looking at over $20000 in bills for a child birth. Then you have to work to feed the kid and provide housing and provide additional healthcare when they get sick. If you're irresponsible all that is simply free. (Not that Section 8 housing is usually that great but you get what you pay for.)
I'm middle class and can provide some exact costs.
4 years ago we had a child and the total hospital tab was 11,500. This was in California, which I would assume would be on the extreme high end of the spectrum especially since it ended up being an emergency extraction.
My end was 2,200. I later received about a 500 refund on that since I had exceeded the 2,500 limit for the year due to her previous visits.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-01-16, 12:59
This idea that medicare for all is a farce, because the health care system would implode if it had to run just on medicare money.
I think you need to do some reading on the subject, the AMA has a pretty big hand in setting the rates for medicare:
‘What started as an advisory group has taken on a life of its own,’ said Tom Scully, who was Medicare chief during the George W. Bush Administration and is now a partner in a private-equity firm that invests in health care. ‘The idea that $100 billion in federal spending is based on fixed prices that go through an industry trade association in a process that is not open to the public is pretty wild.’
Earlier this month, the Washington Post published a blockbuster front-page story about a secretive committee that determines what Medicare pays physicians for their work. Part of the American Medical Association (AMA), the committee estimates the time and intensity of various doctor tasks, and the recommendations are plugged into a formula that sets Medicare reimbursements. The committee overestimates the time it takes to perform myriad medical procedures, which thereby increases the amount doctors can earn from Medicare. One gastroenterologist in the Post story would have to work 26 hours, according to the committee time estimates, to accomplish what he gets done in a typical workday.
http://swampland.time.com/2013/07/29/the-secretive-group-behind-medicare-reimbursements/
Private Payer Reimbursement. Most, if not all, private payers tie their reimbursement rates to Medicare's. Contrary to widespread perception, private payers often reimburse at rates lower than Medicare.
http://www.physicianspractice.com/blog/how-medicare-other-payers-determine-physician-reimbursement-rates
Why not address the economics that are the root of the health care problem so it is affordable for all folks to have insurance?
My wife's knee replacement was billed at $45,000.00 they showed a $20,000.00 write off because insurance only paid $25,000.00 for the deal. They aren't going broke doing that, but yet if you roll in and don't have insurance they gouge you for the full $45,000.00.
I don't know if you have insurance, and how much you pay for that insurance. Up until I retired I had always worked for entities that provided insurance and my kick in had always been pretty reasonable, I thought. Taken in context, though, what I paid went up much, much quicker than my wages. In several years any increase in salary was eaten up in increased health insurance premiums - additionally my co-pays also rose.
We need to get a handle on it and we ain't going to do it sitting around bitching about poor people getting medicaide.
I can tell you definitively and authoritatively that in general that medicare barely pays to cover medical care. If you think Docs or the medical system could function on medicare level payments for all services, you are very mistaken. Private insurance largely fills the gap to operate hospitals.
I'm not saying that there isn't collusion and stuff going on in the medical field. But when people look at medicare payment rates and then extrapolate out those costs to cover everyone- that is pure mathematical fantasy.
That $45 price is largely set because medicare has to have a set discount. So don't blame anyone but the fed system for the reason why the boilerplate price is so high.
I can tell you definitively and authoritatively that in general that medicare barely pays to cover medical care. If you think Docs or the medical system could function on medicare level payments for all services, you are very mistaken. Private insurance largely fills the gap to operate hospitals.
I'm not saying that there isn't collusion and stuff going on in the medical field. But when people look at medicare payment rates and then extrapolate out those costs to cover everyone- that is pure mathematical fantasy.
That $45 price is largely set because medicare has to have a set discount. So don't blame anyone but the fed system for the reason why the boilerplate price is so high.
Define 'definitely and authoritively' if you would, please. I ask that because, I am trying to understand both sides of the issue to make up my own mind.
If this 'That $45 price is largely set because medicare has to have a set discount' referred to the mark down on my wife's knee, she is a decade away from medicare, and we are tens (not hundreds :p) of thousands away from medicaid.
And, I hope that you live well past retirement age. When that time comes what are you going to be relying on for insurance? At some point, almost all American's are going to rely on medicare. If we don't want that to be the case we need to 1) somehow, drive down the cost of insurance; or 2) drive down the costs of medical care.
I'm middle class and can provide some exact costs.
4 years ago we had a child and the total hospital tab was 11,500. This was in California, which I would assume would be on the extreme high end of the spectrum especially since it ended up being an emergency extraction.
My end was 2,200. I later received about a 500 refund on that since I had exceeded the 2,500 limit for the year due to her previous visits.
Kind of funny, almost 40 years ago my second son was born. Our hospital bill was one tenth yours, paid by BC/BS, I don't remember the deductible. What I do remember is that a short time later, one of my friends had to pay for his wife's delivery out of pocket. He paid half what I we paid. Hospitals used to do that - work with folks - before they were run by administrators making more than the doctors.
From the story:
Of $367 billion estimated to be spent on health care in the state in 2016, $260 billion will be from taxpayer money, according to the research.....In California, Medicare and Medi-Cal alone account for roughly 47 percent of health care expenditures.
So the headline says 70% - I'd imagine the other 23% is from state employees?
I'd be more interested in FIRST driving down costs by more efficiencies and ensuring good outcomes, then reducing the numbers of users of the Government funded stuff.
You do remember this don't you: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/03/18/393909850/blue-shield-of-california-loses-its-exemption-from-state-taxes
While the two aren't directly related, seems to me there is a lot of greed in this issue. Which indicates to me we have room to work a solution to the problem.
We've got people from CA coming to TN in DROVES right now...running from what THEY'VE ALLOWED to happen. Screwed up CO, trying to screw up TX...coming soon to us...dammit....like a virus...
Middle class can't afford to reproduce as easily. Without insurance you are probably looking at over $20000 in bills for a child birth. Then you have to work to feed the kid and provide housing and provide additional healthcare when they get sick. If you're irresponsible all that is simply free. (Not that Section 8 housing is usually that great but you get what you pay for.)
For me Kid 1 was 13k, kid 2 was about 10.5 and #3 looks like it's about 8500, but we're not sure yet. Them guys have a habit of sending bills out way late..
Different levels of care for all three. Out of pocket was same. 5k for the year. They paid everything above 5k
Nicu babies can go to astronomical numbers in cost. One guy I know had 2 nicu babies. He smashed the $250k mark with the one.
So are you paying for the next guy......technically, yes.
As far as the indigent care goes, I can only speak to what I saw with an employee of mine. ER Bill was 12k. No insurance. Said he could pay 200$ month. Hospital told him to get Effed. They flip it to the court. County pays the hospital 3800$. He gets a monthy garnishment, if you can even call it that of something dumb like 40$. But he just gets to go pay it on his own. No wage garnishment on my end. They told him as long as your current they don't care. He told the judge he wanted to pay it all. Judge said don't worry about it. Your bill is 3800.....
So, if that's a regular thing, I blame the hospital as much as anyone. Won't take payments over more than a year and willing to write off 3/4 of the bill......
Wtf....... Not saying he's right, cause he wasn't. Dipshit blew all his coin on wheels for his king ranch f150.... It's just that to me the whole thing is effed.
To be fair, there are Two Americas.
One that saves, toils, and waits to have a single kid in the mid 30s because taxes, mortgage, etc
And those who drop litters like cats with different fathers starting at age 15.
Run across several thirtysomething grandparents in my day.
Yep.....
FlyingHunter
09-01-16, 20:10
Healthcare is not a right that should be paid for by the state, states Congressman Ron Paul
“You have a right to your life and you have a right to your liberty and you have a right to keep what you earn in a free country. But you do not have a right to stuff. You do not have the right to services or things, like a house or a job, because in order to get that the government would have to take that from somebody else,” explained the Congressman.
“The most you can expect in a free society is for government to make an attempt at protecting rights, not to try to re-distribute wealth. If you do that – all people will lose their rights,” he asserted.
This is fact almost no one understands.
He's right. Absolutely nothing in the constitution about health care.
He's right. Absolutely nothing in the constitution about health care.
The current administration ran on a campaign of everyone having a right to owning a home, healthcare, and college.
****ing progressive garbage.
The current administration ran and won on a campaign of everyone having a right to owning a home, healthcare, and college.
****ing progressive garbage.
Twice I might add. As I've said here before, we don't have a politician problem in this country, we have an electorate problem.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd187/ABNAK/voter_zpsxcj2ptt2.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/ABNAK/media/voter_zpsxcj2ptt2.jpg.html)
Averageman
09-04-16, 08:02
The current administration ran on a campaign of everyone having a right to owning a home, healthcare, and college.
****ing progressive garbage.
All of the Rights, with none of the attached Responsibilities. After all, someone else should pay for that for you, you're owed.
You can try and teach your friends and neighbors about Freedom and what it costs, you can even be a great example, but as soon as the tap is turned off for the FSA, they will likely cut your throat to get it turned back on.
People are Clueless.
Eurodriver
09-04-16, 09:12
The current administration ran on a campaign of everyone having a right to owning a home, healthcare, and college.
****ing progressive garbage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights
Rights considered positive rights, as initially proposed in 1979 by the Czech jurist Karel Vasak, may include other civil and political rights such as police protection of person and property and the right to counsel, as well as economic, social and cultural rights such as food, housing, public education, employment, national security, military, health care, social security, internet access, and a minimum standard of living. In the "three generations" account of human rights, negative rights are often associated with the first generation of rights, while positive rights are associated with the second and third generations.
Positive rights are a "real" thing to progressives, and to question them is akin to questioning one's right to vote, or freedom of speech.
When I asked one during a grad school (She was the blah blah something director of the M.D. program at the university getting her mandatory MBA due to a promotion) presentation why someone has a right to something that another person has to produce her actual, verbatim response was:
"Uhh, cuz first world country? (Duh) Freedom. Humanity. Can you just shut up?"
Averageman
09-04-16, 09:17
All of that tripe started here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights
In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.
Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.
Thanks FDR!
All of that tripe started here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights
In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.
Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.
Thanks FDR!
He doesn't get enough mention in the "worst President ever" conversations.
He doesn't get enough mention in the "worst President ever" conversations.
True, but it is hard to even be in the competition for that title when you look at our current abomination.....
Averageman
09-04-16, 16:14
I had a Great Uncle who hated FDR so much that he set aside every dime he got his hands on with FDR's face on it.
He did a little one man fight against that SOB being in circulation.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-04-16, 17:16
He doesn't get enough mention in the "worst President ever" conversations.
Either Roosevelt can go F themselves. Great, heroic tales of people overcoming obstacles- but so did Ghengis Khan. The best you can say about them is, that facing the economic and social winds blowing around the world, they were not as bat-crap-crazy as what other countries got.
The right to take something at the point of a gun. Ben Shapiro has it right when he says that we need to inject the phrase "at the end of the gun" when it comes to any govt law or program. If you don't do what the govt wants, they show up with guns and you go to jail.
So all those above should actually read:
The get to take an education from someone else, or they will go to jail.
Middle class can't afford to reproduce as easily. Without insurance you are probably looking at over $10000 in bills for a child birth.
Only if you go to a hospital. Hospital births are not necessary in the vast majority of births and can be handled by a competent midwife for a fraction of the cost.
Either Roosevelt can go F themselves. Great, heroic tales of people overcoming obstacles- but so did Ghengis Khan. The best you can say about them is, that facing the economic and social winds blowing around the world, they were not as bat-crap-crazy as what other countries got.
The right to take something at the point of a gun. Ben Shapiro has it right when he says that we need to inject the phrase "at the end of the gun" when it comes to any govt law or program. If you don't do what the govt wants, they show up with guns and you go to jail.
So all those above should actually read:
The get to take an education from someone else, or they will go to jail.
When people ask me why xxx government program gets me fired up this is the example I always use too. Because if you don't comply this is what will happen. So much for freedom.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-05-16, 09:24
When people ask me why xxx government program gets me fired up this is the example I always use too. Because if you don't comply this is what will happen. So much for freedom.
And people believe that the govt gives them the benefits, not that those resources weren't taken from people in the first place. We have gone from where everyone put money in and the govt was able to aggregate it to provide efficient services, to a model where only some chip in and the benefits are doled out to individuals, not used to benefit the whole population. Look at the rise in transfer payments versus general things like building roads.
Eurodriver
09-05-16, 11:02
And people believe that the govt gives them the benefits, not that those resources weren't taken from people in the first place. We have gone from where everyone put money in and the govt was able to aggregate it to provide efficient services, to a model where only some chip in and the benefits are doled out to individuals, not used to benefit the whole population. Look at the rise in transfer payments versus general things like building roads.
You stop talking logically this instant. Transfer payments are good for the economy because then it gets spent vs letting those greedy rich people save what they've earned.
Eventually, as Mrs Thatcher pointed out, the greedy rich are going to run out of money either by force or voluntarily. And unfortunately what a lot of Americans don't realize is they are already the "greedy rich".
Once you start making $250k/yr AGI as a self employed person you are lucky to keep 50c on every dollar you earn. And that doesn't include health insurance which you are now required to purchase. Or property taxes. Or gas taxes. Or tolls. Or sales tax. Why would you put in extra effort to increase your top line by 50k if in reality you'll only benefit from approximately $20k of it?
Have you seen how much cash is on the balance sheets of big corporations compared to 2005?
Averageman
09-05-16, 11:54
You stop talking logically this instant. Transfer payments are good for the economy because then it gets spent vs letting those greedy rich people save what they've earned.
Eventually, as Mrs Thatcher pointed out, the greedy rich are going to run out of money either by force or voluntarily. And unfortunately what a lot of Americans don't realize is they are already the "greedy rich".
Once you start making $250k/yr AGI as a self employed person you are lucky to keep 50c on every dollar you earn. And that doesn't include health insurance which you are now required to purchase. Or property taxes. Or gas taxes. Or tolls. Or sales tax. Why would you put in extra effort to increase your top line by 50k if in reality you'll only benefit from approximately $20k of it?
Have you seen how much cash is on the balance sheets of big corporations compared to 2005?
It's an "Atlas Shrugged" moment when you realize all of your efforts seem to be slipping away in taxes.
I've had to help both my Son and my Mother this year, I've sold my Mustang GT to do it. I continue to save and contribute to my 401k @ 20% and slowly see my efforts are for naught. I'm guessing between real and hidden taxes, I'm giving up 50% of my income and still trying to keep my closest Family afloat.
Paddling like hell just to tread water.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-05-16, 12:45
Have you seen how much cash is on the balance sheets of big corporations compared to 2005?
We are pretty far off topic, but I'm starting to think that a lot of multinationals success is through tax 'management'. You look at Apple and granted, they are a great tech company, but look at the compounding effect of their near zero tax rate and it is a very positive effect on their finances. I've seen some analysis that a lot of Soros cash comes from moving mo my, deferring payments to people, collecting interest and not paying taxes on it. He has made some right calls, but more comes from his manipulation.
Smaller firms don't have this ability to play funny with their money.
All these Big business, social engineers whose companies don't pay taxes for their Utopian dreams,
HardToHandle
09-06-16, 21:32
We are pretty far off topic, but I'm starting to think that a lot of multinationals success is through tax 'management'. You look at Apple and granted, they are a great tech company, but look at the compounding effect of their near zero tax rate and it is a very positive effect on their finances. I've seen some analysis that a lot of Soros cash comes from moving mo my, deferring payments to people, collecting interest and not paying taxes on it. He has made some right calls, but more comes from his manipulation.
Smaller firms don't have this ability to play funny with their money.
All these Big business, social engineers whose companies don't pay taxes for their Utopian dreams,
Hell yes - this is accurate.
General Electric was attacked by the left wing for years for tax farming. They had dozens of experts studying the tax code and finding misnamed "loopholes". They paid almost zero tax... Good. Good for me as an investor who gets heavily taxed in other ways.
Those guys found a way to work inside the system. Bravo.
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