View Full Version : "Tactical Winchester 97", stupid idea?
Been toying with this idea for a while now. I have a 1903 Win 97 takedown in 18" riot gun configuration. The finish is crap, too many years of hard use and abuse before it came into my hands. Unknown round count, but no doubt very high, I figure I have probably put close to a hundred boxes of shells through it. What can I say I just like shooting this shotgun, and it never fails to function.
So my thoughts are to refinish it in dark matte grey, possibly stain the wood black, maybe add a heat sheild just for fun, and have myself a tacticool '97. I also have a black leather Galco butt cuff shell holder complete with Gunsite raven that I picked up at a swap meet for $5.
I know this is an odd idea, but the gun looks like it has been drug behind a truck on a cross country drive and it really isn't worth a real refinishing. I figure this might make for a fun project, and I really do like to shoot this old gun, so making it look better seems somewhat worthwhile. Any thoughts or suggestions?
If there are any '97 pros here, being an '03 model this gun has screws in the reciever where later '97s have the buttons for emptying the magazine. Is it possible to retrofit this feature onto earlier guns?
What have you been shooting through it?
Does it have a 23/4 chamber or a 25/8?
A lot of guys use them in CAS, most with light loads.
From my point of view, I'd make sure the chamber was 2/34, do the refinish and rock on with light loads. I think it would be cool.
I always meant to have the chamber checked especially since it is an early model. I started with lighter loads and never saw any signs of over pressure as I moved up. Though it may not be wise, I have to admit to running just about everything imaginable through it. Up to and including some pretty hot homemade 00 and lyman 525g sabot slugs. Checking and opening up the chamber if necessary should be on the to do list. Thanks for the reminder.
I have other shotguns better suited to this kind of use (2 500s, a Hans Vang modified 590a1, and a trickwd out Saiga 12) but none of them feel as good as the old '97. The 97 feels so much lighter than the others and sweeps so effortlessly, the gun is just a joy to shoot. It's like the old girl just jumps into my shoulder and says "let's bust some clay". Not only do I enjoy it more but I also score better with it than any of the others. And yes, I have shot clays with the Saiga. Gets some funny looks but it sure busts birds in a hurry.
Averageman
09-04-16, 07:37
I had a chance to buy one of these in the late seventies and had to pass because of a number of reasons, but the biggest being I was pretty broke as a High School student and had a truck payment to make. I think there were three of them in my LGS.
I might restore that one, it is a classic, shoot it and enjoy it.
but none of them feel as good as the old '97. The 97 feels so much lighter than the others and sweeps so effortlessly, the gun is just a joy to shoot.
They are lighter it appears , though you pay the price with recoil. I've hunted with mine in the past but no longer shoot it much for fun.
There is a trick to operating them that most modern pump users would not be familiar with
There is a trick to operating them that most modern pump users would not be familiar with
Do tell. I assume you mean other than holding the trigger back and pumping away. That bit is kind of fun sometimes.
Ned Christiansen
09-04-16, 09:59
May I suggest don't stain the wood black, that gun deserves to retrain the look of walnut and steel. Have somebody re-blue it for you even it has to be matte blue, but some shine to it would be nice too.
You may find this of interest--
http://ltwguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=268&p=2770#p2770
Beautiful work Ned. You may be right, sometimes I get started down the rabbit hole and I just can't stop. I can't post pics of this gun, it is a 10 hour drive away right now, but it is pretty beat up. Mechanically sound but ugly. Making a sweet piece out of it would probably require replacing everything exept the air in the bore.
Realistically, I would like it to look better. I found that gunsite shell holder, and down the rabbit hole I went. Looking nicer with a light touch of "cowboy tactical" is really all I would need. I don't plan to grab it by the barrel for a bayonet lunge (no bayonet anyway) so scratch the heat shield. Maybe I could clean up the wood well enough for a nice stain...
I just don't want to put more money into it than it is really worth.
I ended up with it almost by accident. I found a pristine full barreled 97 that I knew a buddy would give his eye teeth for, so while negotiating for that one the shop owner brought this one out to sweeten the deal as a "parts gun" so I took them both for about $100 more than I had wanted to pay for the nice one. A while later, I traded the nice one for a dillon 550, a redding press, a mec 650, and other assorted dies and reloading stuff.
I figure I got a pretty good deal getting an operable 97 for about $100, but I don't want to throw too much cash into cleaning it up. Sows ear, silk purse...
Btw Ned, do you know if the unloading feature can be retrofitted. I am thinking not, but I like that feature on later 97s.
Is it rusted? If not and its mechanically sound I would throw the butt cuff on there and leave it alone. Sounds like it earned that wear. But its your gun and that's just like, my opinion man.
glock21xxx
09-04-16, 19:04
Is it rusted? If not and its mechanically sound I would throw the butt cuff on there and leave it alone. Sounds like it earned that wear. But its your gun and that's just like, my opinion man.
LOL best response
Do tell. I assume you mean other than holding the trigger back and pumping away. That bit is kind of fun sometimes.
The trick: you have to push slightly forward before starting your rearward motion when cycling with the hammer down
Stumps many people used to modern pumps. And why I retired mine from home defense usage
Also how to properly use the half cock as safety, proper unloading procedure (unloader buttons, then the full cock plus slide release button)
Fun to blast with. A bit tedious to use much in the field when you might put a shotgun on safe off safe on safe repeatedly before taking a shot. (Dove hunting, see a bird and cock it as you point, then realize it's a Tweety Bird or your partner shot it or whatever.)
Apparently "full auto" fire excessively wears the sear and hammer as well (though we've all done it)
If your gun had the shorter chamber, it would be very difficult to extract a fired 23/4 inch shell. The half cock isn't much of a safety, and the notch on the sear for the half cock would likely break if the gun were dropped or bumped hard enough. I would use it for a behind the door shotgun loaded with low recoil buckshot. Though nice, it's obsolete for a reason. I would keep the chamber empty.
Funny how you don't think much about the quirks of a gun you use alot. I see how a 97 could confuse soeone who is not used to them. To me that s just how the gun works, doesn't even cross my mind.
Whatever I do to the old girl, she ain't never gonna be my go to gun for HD. The gun is well over 100 years old. While it has never given me a lick of trouble, I am just not willing to bet my life on it.
All I want is to clean it up, maybe have a little fun with the facelift, and keep running it for fun. I do need to do something to it. I'm getting older and more raggity by the day, and if me and the gun both look like we are on the verge of a catastrophic failure I won't get anyone to toss pigeons for me.
Just tell people it's an idiot lock to keep bubba's from being able to operate it
Way back, I hunted with mine. You get used to its operating pattern. But now it's just for occasional fun.
SeriousStudent
09-05-16, 19:08
May I suggest don't stain the wood black, that gun deserves to retrain the look of walnut and steel. Have somebody re-blue it for you even it has to be matte blue, but some shine to it would be nice too.
You may find this of interest--
http://ltwguns.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=268&p=2770#p2770
That's very cool, Ned.
To the OP: I have an old Model 12 take-down shotgun. The weathered look actually gets a lot of positive comments.
And I know what you mean about how easy it is to handle. The thing mounts and points so naturally; it's a lot of fun to shoot.
Ned Christiansen
09-05-16, 21:13
I do not know about a retrofit of that feature and will not be able to check into it, but I have a technique for easy unloading without it. When you get to that point I think I can explain it best with a pic or two.. maybe about the time you get the gun back in hand I can find a few minutes to take the pics. Basically you put thumb and forefinger into the shell stop area, cross them like and X, and depress the shell stops.... you can also do them one then the other.
Ned Christiansen
09-14-16, 12:27
Just ran across this, looks like this guy knows the '97 and reblueing:
http://www.ottawaordnance.com/gunsmithing/customgunwork.html
Just ran across this, looks like this guy knows the '97 and reblueing:
http://www.ottawaordnance.com/gunsmithing/customgunwork.html
Clearly not that you need it Ned but Darrin (owner of Ott. Ord) & I go back to the late 90s, a very much GTG fella.
Fordtough25
09-15-16, 08:11
Just a quick note for the OP, great thread and idea! I've handled a few model '97s and they are awesome! I had lined up a model 12 riot in 12 gauge but the guy backed out on me before we met up. I will own a '97 and '12 someday!
I had a standard 30" 12 Gauge Takedown that I was looking to cut down to a defensive shotgun... but I changed to an Ithaca. Well, actually, I abandoned the entire project, and when I had the Ithaca fall into my lap, resurrected it.
The 1897 is a really unique gun, but it is very complicated for a pump action shotgun. Too many parts, and for the most part, they all have to work in sync. I've heard of CAS wanting three in jest; one to shoot, one to be at the gunsmith, and one broken and waiting to go to the gunsmith.
Mine was a good platform, but it would have issues with the takedown, and being a pain to put it back together. Could I have fixed it? Maybe... but to have the barrel cut down (bead added, and threaded for choke tubes) and refinished (I was going to restain the wood, and likely send it to Robar for NP3 Plus; my 870 Police was done in that finish and very happy with it), I'd be putting a lot into a gun that might not fit the role I wanted. I wanted to have a defensive shotgun that could be taken down and stowed in a somewhat compact space. If the gun had a takedown system, I'd want to use it when I'm done. I've done a few drawn out gun projects, and likely still will (just got a Remington Model 7), but that shotgun just gave me the impression of not going the way I wanted it to go. Got it on a trade for a handgun I didn't want anymore, and sold it for a fair price (didn't make anything on it).
I picked up an Ithaca 87 (37) to swap stocks for my father, who had a Ducks Unlimited Guide Gun with a cracked wrist. I originally was going to toss on a wood stock and sell it... but it was a sound shotgun. Can't have too many defensive shotguns, right? Had the barrel cut down to 20", beads added, and threaded for Remington chokes. It is currently at Robar for NP3 Plus.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc61/Screwball216/2F4654FF-7F71-4586-875C-AB0DDF8CC4B8_zpsyffdqyss.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc61/Screwball216/CF734BCC-917D-4BC7-AE6E-13A47616F487_zpsz8r0gc72.jpg
While I like the appearance of older shotgun designs... including the 1897, I'd recommend a simpler design. My Ithaca has walnut furniture, which I'm leaving as it came from Boyds, but I prefer a little more corrosion resistance than the cool look. Good luck with the project whatever way you decide to go.
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