View Full Version : Glock 43 Brass to face
I unexpectedly picked up a Talo edition Glock 43 today and brought it to the range.
The gun has a rear U notch and a front pro-glo sight and a very nice trigger for a Glock 43: http://www.taloinc.com/glock-firearms/glock-43-glopro
I gleaned and lubed it and brought it to the range. I ran less than 50 rounds through it consisting of Blazer Brass, Federal HST 124 grain standard velocity and Federal HST 147 standard velocity. Out of that low amount of rounds I got hit about 6 times with Brass to the face or head with every type of ammo.
I don't think I have the patience to play the "send it back and forth to Glock" game.
Well,I don't know if Apex makes a extractor for the 43, So, you may only have two choices here, send it back to Glock, and play the game, or seĺl it, and sell it now. Out of three Glocks I've owned or still own , two had btf issues, only my gen4 g17 was gtg and it was a used,LE trade in. My gen4 g19 was pretty much fixed with a Apex extractor, but I still get a few to the face every now and then. Getting a Glock that dosen't throw brass at you seems like it's luck of the draw....No matter how good the trigger is, or how good the sights are, it's not worth a damn if it throws brass at you using defensive ammo. That's completly unacceptable.
DreadPirateMoyer
09-04-16, 09:05
1. This is something endemic to all Glocks, exacerbated for some reason during the Gen 4 change on all models. My bet is you got one of the high-frequency ones. Sorry man. This is why I converted to other brands entirely after owning nothing but a large stock of Glocks. :( I too didn't want to play the game and find BTF entirely unacceptable.
2. However, before selling, try locking the slide back for a few days. It will encourage the RSA to take its initial set, which means the spring will be broken in and won't be as strong. This has the benefit of allowing the slide to increase in velocity during recoil, which usually increases ejection force. All my Berettas, for example, exhibited BTF for the first 200 rounds or so and then it disappeared once the RSA was broken in. Maybe that could work for you? Or it might just spit cases into your face harder, hahaha.
Good luck. Sorry to hear your gun has the bug.
I have the regular version 43. Have about 400 rounds through it now. Some GD 124gr but mostly generic 115 and 124. PPU, WWB, and the Czech ZV something. So far all good. However this is my newest Glock, all others are older 3rd gens
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I had this happened with two Glock 19 gen 4. Glock eventually replaced one of them after sending it in twice and then writing a letter to a supervisor, the other one I eventually sold. The Apex extractor seemed to help a bit but would still get the occasional BTF. To me the aftermarket addition that seemed to help the most was the White Sound Defense HRED which reverses the components in the extractor assembly. These parts are responsible for keeping tension on the extractor in which the large mass steel extractor plunger is allowed to freely move against the extractor plunger spring. Having the large extractor plunger allowed to move during extraction relieves pressure on the extractor due to momentum and loosens the grip the extractor has on the rim of the brass. The HRED essentially makes the moving portion of the extraction assembly the low mass peice therefore allowing greater tension on the extractor while the slide is cycling. It seemed to help my BTF glock 19 out immensely and theyre only $20 or so to boot. Worth a try.
I didn't know the g43 had the dreaded btf issue too! I just bought one the other day. I put about 150 rnds through it so far. 115gr pmc,winchester white,federal,steal case, 124gr winchester Nato,149gr speer, 124gr winchester hollow points. Not one btf, and no failures so far. It really shot so Damm good, I had a blast! I was really impressed at how easy it was to shoot.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/20161026_100302_zps5gzhjkrm.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/Dirknar77/media/20161026_100302_zps5gzhjkrm.jpg.html)
Bro your thread title is wrong. It should read 'Every Glock Ever Brass to the Face.'
Love my Glock, carry it every day, but the brass to face in training is like preparation for return fire. It's not a bug; it's a feature.
Mr. Greene
10-29-16, 12:21
I had this problem as far back as '94 with a 19 and the gunsmith we had at our shop had the same problem, he fixed his and I gave him mine to fix, I'm not sure of the exact procedure but he hit the ejector with a file a couple of times an abracadabra it was fixed. Had this problem resurface a few years ago along with a friend of mine on some new 17's and 19's first we tried the apex extractors since everybody was on the bandwagon and they were just hitting the market, still had problems until we changed the ejector ( those parts apex reccomends changing with their extractor, they should come with it but don't) then the problem went away. I'm convinced that the ejectors are the problem. Just my 2 cents
556BlackRifle
10-29-16, 12:50
I bought a G43 about a month ago. So far I've run about 750 through it and zero BTF issues. This includes Wally White Box, Ranger-T +p and +P+, Critical Duty, Fed HST, a bunch of old Hydra-shok, Win JHP and Evil Black Talon. No problems knock on wood.
I thought Glock had the BTF issue sorted out. I'd give them a call, request a shipping label and send it back. (They will not offer to pick up shipping, you have to ask. If the tech is a dick, ask for a supervisor and demand it.) Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Guys, I don't know what it is, I've been watching Glock shooters, and shooting Glocks for over 20 years, to the tune of, I'd say 175-200 different shooters each year. Some new shooters, some veteran shooters. 147gr (subsonic) and 124 gr in 9mm; 180 gr in 40 and 230 gr in .45. Saw the issues with the light rails and mag springs when it first occurred, didn't immediately know what was going on, but we knew something was.
What I'm trying to say, is in over 2,000 Glock shooters, I have not seen brass-to-face issues enough to say Glock has BTF issues. Generally the shooters that have brass bouncing off their face or the brim of their ballcap, are not your strongest shooters, strength-wise and ability-wise.
If I had to guess why I haven't seen the issue on our range I'd have to say that it is because each of the shooters I've been observing has gone through our classroom instruction, and has spent time under our supervision in dry drills, where problems with grip are discussed and diagnosed, before they fire a live round. Plus, the ammo that I've observed being used in these weapons comes from bid source, loaded to 'duty' equivalent velocity.
I'd be interested to hear if any other Academy instructors have differing experience.
I've never seen the Loch Ness Monster, although others claim they have, I'm skeptical of it's existence; doesn't mean I don't believe, just not convinced, if you get my drift.
One of the things that frustrates these issues is a lack of common definition and inclusion criteria for the "BTF" label. Depending on who is speaking, every Glock I own has it, none of them do, or some do in a given set of circumstances. Several other manufacturers have it as well, depending on what we're talking about. So I ask...
What is "BTF?"
How often does it need to occur to earn the label?
If a certain gun does BTF with...
...only certain loads,
...only certain shooters,
...or only certain shooters with certain loads, is it included?
What about the same questions applied to erratic ejection?
Is consistent ejection a direction other than 2:00-5:00 BTF or erratic? Is it okay?
If we arrive at a definition and a gun has a BTF or erratic ejection condition, but does not experience stoppages, is it defective?
I believe that we are all seeing some things, but are not categorizing and reporting them in the same way.
Guys, I don't know what it is, I've been watching Glock shooters, and shooting Glocks for over 20 years, to the tune of, I'd say 175-200 different shooters each year. Some new shooters, some veteran shooters. 147gr (subsonic) and 124 gr in 9mm; 180 gr in 40 and 230 gr in .45. Saw the issues with the light rails and mag springs when it first occurred, didn't immediately know what was going on, but we knew something was.
What I'm trying to say, is in over 2,000 Glock shooters, I have not seen brass-to-face issues enough to say Glock has BTF issues. Generally the shooters that have brass bouncing off their face or the brim of their ballcap, are not your strongest shooters, strength-wise and ability-wise.
If I had to guess why I haven't seen the issue on our range I'd have to say that it is because each of the shooters I've been observing has gone through our classroom instruction, and has spent time under our supervision in dry drills, where problems with grip are discussed and diagnosed, before they fire a live round. Plus, the ammo that I've observed being used in these weapons comes from bid source, loaded to 'duty' equivalent velocity.
I'd be interested to hear if any other Academy instructors have differing experience.
I've never seen the Loch Ness Monster, although others claim they have, I'm skeptical of it's existence; doesn't mean I don't believe, just not convinced, if you get my drift.
Second paragraph, first sentence of 26 Inf's reply matches my experiences. I don't have BTF problems with anything I own, but I've handed a pistol off after finishing a magazine only to watch another guy have the issue with a pistol of mine(which, again, I did not have the BTF with.) The second or third time this happened with more than one shooter I realized this usually happens with shooters that do not have a very rigid stance/grip/etc for the slide to travel against. The pistol in question was a Gen4 G19 with 2K+ rounds through it. Again, I've seen this multiple times.
ALL THAT BEING SAID, my buddy has a Gen3 G19 that will BTF several times per mag, every time I shoot it. He doesn't even shoot it anymore.
My G43 has a few hundred rounds through it with no issues, and no other Glock I've personally owned has had this issue. I guess I'm saying that I believe it is usually but not always a Shooter>Equipment problem, which seems in line with what 26 Inf is saying.
I've been a handgun owner and shooter for decades including 20 years with Glocks of various models and calibers. I never experienced a BTF problem with any of the dozens and dozens of auto loaders I've owner over the years until the fall of 2012. That year I bought two Gen 4 Glock 19s within a few weeks of each other. I didn’t get around to shooting them for about a month after I bought them. This is my experience.
That first one I took to the range with a couple other guns and the G19 beat the crap out of my face from the very first magazine. It hit me directly in the face with hot empties, usually in the forehead or shooting glasses. It did this consistently never less than four rounds each magazine but most often with 6-8 rounds each magazine. There was no letup. So I took both G19s on my next range trip. The second G19 displayed the exact same behavior as my first one. The same 6-8 hot empties, and sometimes more, right in my face.
Until then I had spent little time on shooting forums but I went to the Glock Talk, Glock Forum and other forums looking for answers. I spent a lot of time reading everything I could about BTF. My two already had all the updated parts so returning them to the factory was not a fix. I tried most every reasonable suggestion I found on the forums including:
* Polish the extractor: I used my Dremel and Flitz to make them look like chrome. No help whatsoever.
* Use only heavier 124 or 147 grain loads: Tried that and it was no help whatsoever.
* Use only stout self-defense loads in heavier grain loads: Tried that and it was no help.
* Limp wristing – let someone else shoot it. I knew this was crap advice but I did it anyway. Two guys at the range I know and one is a huge Glock fan. Both also got a face full of hot empties from each of my G19s.
* Shoot a few hundred rounds through it and it will be fine: By this time I had 800+ rounds through the first one and 700 rounds through the second one. No help whatsoever.
By then I was piling up a lot of time and money with expensive self-defense ammo trying to find a fix. I finally read about the Apex Failure Resistant Glock Extractor kit. I installed one in my first Glock and took it to the range with a good mix of ammunition. After 175 rounds I had not been hit even once. The brass ejected consistently into a small pile. Bought and installed the second Apex in the second G19 with the same happy results.
Now I have a couple thousand rounds post Apex through each one of my G19s and they work like all my Glocks have in the past. Since the Apex installations I haven’t been hit with a hot empty even once with either of my G19s. Something has changed in the newer Glock 19 and maybe in some other models. Although an Apex or other after-market extractor is the fix for many of the BTF problems it is reported to not always work.
Within a couple of days of the Sandy Hook shooting I had grabbed a third NIB G19 and stuck it in the back of the safe because I didn’t know how deep the madness would go. This spring I took it out of the safe and looked it over deciding if I wanted to go through the pain and expense to fix another Glock 19. Decide that I didn’t and sold it. I've owned 7 or 8 Glock 19s over the years but, I will never buy another one.
This summer I bought a couple of G43s. One has been shot a bit over a thousand rounds with no BTF or other issues. I like the G43 a lot. But, if someone told me they were having BTF issues with their Glock 43 I would definitely believe them.
The BTF problem with Glocks is the gun, not the shooters. Something has changed on the newer Glock 19s.
Straight Shooter
11-04-16, 09:00
Bro your thread title is wrong. It should read 'Every Glock Ever Brass to the Face.'
Love my Glock, carry it every day, but the brass to face in training is like preparation for return fire. It's not a bug; it's a feature.
NO, ITS NOT. There are many threads here covering this issue. Stop spreading mis-information.
Never had a single instance of BTF. I never bought the new gen 4 when they came out simply because i didn't need it but all my gen2 (G19), gen3 (G19, 17, 22, 21) and the G43 have never given me any problems with brass to face.
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This topic is particularly fresh for me. I have primarily been a TDA pistol shooter (Berettas and Sigs), but have been extremely tempted by Glocks lately. In August I took a pistol course with a loaner Gen2G17. I was impressed enough that in September, I bought a Blue Label Gen4G19. I fired a 600 round mix of 115gr WWB, 124gr IMI, and 124gr Federal HST in the first couple of weeks of ownership. I get solid BTF about every 20 rds or so. This has occurred with both the WWB and the IMI. I have not had a problem with the HST, but I do not think my sample size has been large enough (60 rds). The BTF is centered straight to my forehead and impacts with more authority than I would have guessed. I have seen the pistol eject left a couple of times. There have been two instances of horizontal stove-pipe / FTE malfunctions during this time.
This was enough for me to contact Glock CS. They sent a shipping label (I had to ask for one). After 10 working days, they sent the pistol back with no explanation of the work done. I wrote an e-mail and received a prompt response that 30 rds were fired and the condition could not be duplicated.
I would argue that I am not in-experienced, but that is subjective to degree. I have trained with pistols for years in the military and have taken a couple of civilian courses as well (one with the aforementioned Gen2G17).
At the moment, I am torn. I really think I can start to like the G19, however, my level of interest in a science project is low at the moment.
Chubbs
The BTF problem with Glocks is the gun, not the shooters.
Something has changed on the newer Glock 19s.
I agree 100%.
I too was involved with this back in 2012, I bought a gen3 G23 .40S&W July of 2012
While the .40 didn't have the BTF issue, I was on the Glock forums and it
was an epidemic like nothing I have seen.
This was when I came to know Randy @ Apex Tactical, his FRE saved
many 9mm Glock owners. And he really figured out what was going on with the problem.
This was when I came to know Randy @ Apex Tactical, his FRE saved
many 9mm Glock owners. And he really figured out what was going on with the problem.
I imagine if keep the pistol, I will have to go this route.
I imagine if keep the pistol, I will have to go this route.
Apex can help you out.
I have had BTF with everything from GEN 2 19's to current GEN 4 19's. The APEX extractor has fixed my personal guns. I guesstimate that about 1/3 of Glock's produced suffer from it.
C4
NO, ITS NOT. There are many threads here covering this issue. Stop spreading mis-information.
You call it misinformation, but I call it my personal experience, and I'll share it as I see fit.
556BlackRifle
11-04-16, 16:48
You call it misinformation, but I call it my personal experience, and I'll share it as I see fit.
It's real alright but not with every Glock.
My experience:
G19 Gen3: BTF Yes
G22 Gen2: BTF No
G23 Gen3: BTF No
G27 Gen3: BTF No
G36 Gen2.5: BTF No
G43 Gen?: BTF No
It's real alright but not with every Glock.
My experience:
G19 Gen3: BTF Yes
G22 Gen2: BTF No
G23 Gen3: BTF No
G27 Gen3: BTF No
G36 Gen2.5: BTF No
G43 Gen?: BTF No
Perhaps it is fair to say that my statement is hyperbole, but it's still quite far from misinformation.
The deciding factor for me is having seen multiple single guns in the hands of multiple different users behave differently. This leads me to believe that the Glock design is shooter sensitive and therefore flawed. Other users reporting aftermarket parts solving the problem affirms this, though installing an Apex extractor in two Gen4 G19s had no discernible effect when I have tried them.
Like I originally said, I carry a G19 every day and I love it because I find it easy to shoot, simple to operate, and cheap to maintain. Hell, I don't even get brass to my face, but I've seen my carry gun do it to others. That's why I carry it with confidence.
This leads me to believe that the Glock design is shooter sensitive and therefore flawed.
To be fair, most pistols can be sensitive to shooters when not handled properly. I've seen it personally with Glocks, Sigs, M&Ps, etc. About the only pistol I can't get to malfunction with a new/weak shooter is my third gen Smiths...but it's enough of a brick to prevent a lot of limp wrist issues I think.
I'be only had BTF with a Gen 4 19 and a Gen 3 RTF2 22. Some others with kinda "meh" ejection or erratic ejection. Really that's my primary complaint - there is no rhyme or reason it seems for why a particular gun tosses brass well clear in a nice pile, just sorta tosses it out (I have a Gen 3 17 that frequently flips brass up on top of the slide, ending up resting on the back of the shell), or tosses it directly at the face of the shooter.
I must be super fortunate... Six personally owned G19s and not one of them has a BTF issue.
G20SF, and G17 are both good to go too. Have not yet tried the G43, but I may give it a go today at the range. I have been eyeing them and the price is just right.
I must be super fortunate....
No, I think you just have solid fundamentals and are consistently applying them.
Can some Glocks have issues? Sure it is a manufactured product. Mistakes can be made. Does Glock have an inherent design flaw which causes BTF? Based on my experience with instructing all levels of shooters, I don't believe so. Do I believe that the APEX products are an improvement over OEM parts and can help 'problem' shooters? Yes, I do.
Is this issue mainly occurring in the 9mm Glock varrients? I have a G4 23 and a G2 27. No issues with BTF ever... I'm considering converting those two to 9mm (barrel, extractor, firing pin, spring, etc). Wondering if converting those two to 9mm will create a BTF issue they didn't exhibit in the .40 config...anyone already gone down this path care to share their experience? I guess if all Glock varrients are experiencing this BTF issue my question is moot.
As far as the concern about the 9mm versions and BTTF, I shoot the 43, 17, and 34 with no issues regarding brass to the face.
Put a hundred through the 43 today... Zero BTF issues on this one either, though it belongs to a friend that's probably put a couple thousand rounds through it so he may have worked out any issues.
Really liked the 43 and I may end up picking one up soon.
Street Survival
11-06-16, 17:56
Hey Guys,
I just went to an Advanced Glock Armorers Course at the P.D. and I specifically asked this question and they said it from using cheap ammo. Try it with HST 147 grain or Speer 124 grain and see if the problem ceases. We had one of the cops complaining and we went to the range in the PD used some HST and the weapon functioned perfectly.
I had two brass hit me in the forehead when I fired the first magazine through my Glock 43. For the next 2,000 rounds it did not occur. I fired Tula 115g steel case, PPU 115g, Winchester 115g, Federal 115g brass case, Federal 115g aluminum case, CCI Lawman 115g and 124g, CCI Blazer 115g, Federal Hydra-Shok 147g, Speer Gold Dot 124g and 147g and my reloads at 132 PF without any brass to forehead.
From what I understand, underpowered ammunition will cause BTF. I shot thousands of rounds of a wide variety of ammunition and have not been able to cause BTF with my Glock 34, Glock 17 Gen 3, Glock 19 Gen 4, Glock 22 Gen 2, Glock 22 Gen 3 or Glock 23 Gen 3.
I've noticed I only ever seem to get the occasional BTF with crap ammo also.
Good ammo never does it. Oddly, the plastic coat herters ammo doesn't seem to do it either
At first i was annoyed. Then came the the conclusion odds are, if I ever have to use a pistol in a serious situation, I'll be an intended back stop or bullet catcher for incoming fire. All of a sudden a little shit to the face isn't a big deal to me.
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