View Full Version : SIG P320 - striker fired game changer for me
Sig pistols haven't appealed to me for a great many years, as I have never warmed-up to DA and DA/SA semi-auto pistols. But the P320 (Sig's first striker-fired pistol) has been a game-changer for me with regard to my interest in SIGs.
The more I read about the P320, the more interested I became. People are really taking to this pistol. After watching countless YouTube videos and reading numerous reviews, I finally got to the stores and handled them. I was immediately impressed. Carefully comparing them to the M&P (which I love), my Glocks, the VP40 that I bought and then sold, the PPQ, and XD, I found the feel in the hand of the P320 to feel the best. Cabela's recent sale on them pushed me over the edge and I picked up a pair of P320s: a full size in .40S&W and a Compact in 9mm.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/V2300018.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/V2300018.jpg.html)
I've had them both to the range a couple of times and have over 300 rounds of mixed ammo types through each of them. I've experience no failures of any kind with either and come to find that they are very comfortable shooters and quite accurate. They're really easy to shoot well. And have an excellent trigger feel.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1030800.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1030800.jpg.html)
I've never liked the little safety-lever thingy in the middle of the trigger in Glocks and some other pistols - I much prefer a smooth-face, metal trigger shoe. The P320 has that and I love it!
Beyond that, they disassemble for cleaning incredibly easily and quickly - without any tools needed. All good stuff. And, they're good looking, as well.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1000871-Edit.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1000871-Edit.jpg.html)
Another element that has some appeal is that the system is so modular. And the only serialized piece ("the gun") is the small fire control unit (FCU) that can be so easily moved from grip module to grip module within a few seconds. The FCU is the small unit with trigger attached on the top left of the graphic below. With a single serialzed FCU, one can put together a wide variety of pistol sizes, shapes, and calibers. That is pretty cool and is especially helpful for those who are limited in the number of "pistols" they can buy or have.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P320%20Family.png (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P320%20Family.png.html)
Cleaning this pistol is easier than any pistol I've ever had. The pistol disassembles is just a few seconds (no tools needed) and with the FCU removed from the grip module, cleaning it is very quick and easy.
SIG has really done a great job of engineering this pistol, no doubt benefitting, borrowing from, and advancing on other striker-fired designs that have come before. I think this "system" of pistols will find great popularity in the coming years.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/V2300022-Edit.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/V2300022-Edit.jpg.html)
I've enjoyed shooting these two P320s so much that I just bought another variant (P320 Carry .40S&W) and look forward to picking up another in .45auto when I can find one (they have been selling-out very quickly when in stock).
The awesome M&P40 has been my preferred carry pistol for some time now, but I am transitioning over to the P320 Carry in .40S&W now as my EDC CCW pistol.
Congratulations on a couple of very nice 320s. Your photography is pretty good as well.
Good shooting!
Interesting article in G&A Pistol on the P320RX
The red dot factory equipped 9mm 320
Congratulations on a couple of very nice 320s. Your photography is pretty good as well.
Good shooting!
Thanks, Helix. I appreciate your comments.
Interesting article in G&A Pistol on the P320RX
The red dot factory equipped 9mm 320
I haven't seen the article, but I did handle the pistol a little bit. Interesting offering. It isn't something I am drawn to, but I'm sure many will like it.
I'm not a big fan of the 320 like some others, though I'm a huge fan of the modularity concept in general. The gun itself just doesn't do it for me.
But I have to agree with Helix - your photography skills are quite nice!
I have to agree with Helix - your photography skills are quite nice!
DirectTo... thank you! :)
Like the whole idea but dislike the grip and don't want to pay to buy more to test
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Hey OP nice looking set you have there. I really enjoy mine, They balance well with a can on the end also. Congrats again
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/image1_zpsbvkyi3pd.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/image1_zpsbvkyi3pd.jpg.html)
Like the whole idea but dislike the grip and don't want to pay to buy more to test
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I believe some SIG dealers have a display of some sort where you can get the feel of the different frames and different sizes of the 12 different grip modules. Four frames (Full, Carry, Compact, Sub Compact) and in each frame, there are three different sizes (Small, Medium, Large), so 12 different options!
Hey OP nice looking set you have there. I really enjoy mine, They balance well with a can on the end also. Congrats again
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/image1_zpsbvkyi3pd.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/image1_zpsbvkyi3pd.jpg.html)
Thanks, Blak! Great P320 ya got there.
The modularity concept is cool as hell, it shoots nice and the for what it's worth aesthetics are simple but beautiful.
If I wasn't so invested in Glocks, their mags, holsters, etc. the Sig P320 would be right up there with the Walther PPQ and the HK VP9 for me.
The modularity concept is cool as hell, it shoots nice and the for what it's worth aesthetics are simple but beautiful.
If I wasn't so invested in Glocks, their mags, holsters, etc. the Sig P320 would be right up there with the Walther PPQ and the HK VP9 for me.
Hi Benito.
Yes... I'm pretty invested in Glocks and M&Ps, myself. But I shed a few older pistols that I wasn't shooting anymore and those paid for the P320s for me. I do like them all in their own ways. We are blessed with so many great options. Sometimes it's difficult to decide what to carry on a given day! Let's pray we get to keep our firearms freedom. VOTE HILLARY DOWN.
I bought a Full Size and liked it so much I turned around and bout a Compact. Now I've got a Full Size 320RX on lay-away, that I may or may not trade the Full Size on. Why have 2 when you can have 3?
I bought a Full Size and liked it so much I turned around and bout a Compact. Now I've got a Full Size 320RX on lay-away, that I may or may not trade the Full Size on. Why have 2 when you can have 3?
I agree. I have #3 en route to me as I write this. P320 Carry 40.
Layaway for guns is about the worst damn thing to ever happen to me. Wish there was a try before you buy program.
Nice Sigs... I'm considering one myself
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Nice Sigs... I'm considering one myself
Thanks, sadmin. :)
I like it.
http://i.imgur.com/wn2ndd9.jpg
Layaway for guns is about the worst damn thing to ever happen to me. Wish there was a try before you buy program.
Nice Sigs... I'm considering one myself
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I had to make a rule, only one lay a way at the time. I'd get in trouble otherwise lol.
even worse though is the two best local shops have a deal with a local finance company, 12 months/0%. if I didn't know my wife wouldn't kill me. she has no issue with any guns I buy. told me I could have as many as I wanted when we married. financing guns is another story lol
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I've been a Glock fan my entire life, carried nothing but Glock on duty and personal carry. I purchased a P320 when they were first released and love that pistol. It has since replaced my G19 as my daily carry pistol and I plan on adding a full size and target model in the future.
Very comfortable grip, decent trigger, and great price point IMO. The P320 Compact has become my go to pistol since owning it, for some reason I really like it compared to my Glocks.
I know it is off topic but I had to ask, What is this you speak of with layaway for firearms? I know some places but they all charged some ridiculous price to do the layaway plan.
On another note I love the RMR setup, who milled the RMR mount ? I was contemplating a RMR on the P320. I am not sure if I read this or not but is, or does Sig have a RMR ready P320 model where you do not have to get the slide milled? I know I read something but it may not have been Sig, I know a bunch of the other major hitters are already onboard and have offerings or they are in the pipe to come out at a later date.
I know it is off topic but I had to ask, What is this you speak of with layaway for firearms? I know some places but they all charged some ridiculous price to do the layaway plan.
On another note I love the RMR setup, who milled the RMR mount ? I was contemplating a RMR on the P320. I am not sure if I read this or not but is, or does Sig have a RMR ready P320 model where you do not have to get the slide milled? I know I read something but it may not have been Sig, I know a bunch of the other major hitters are already onboard and have offerings or they are in the pipe to come out at a later date.
The P320RX is a package deal that is pre-milled from the factory with Sig's Romeo MRDS installed. IIRC the retail is $799.
I've been a Glock fan my entire life, carried nothing but Glock on duty and personal carry. I purchased a P320 when they were first released and love that pistol. It has since replaced my G19 as my daily carry pistol and I plan on adding a full size and target model in the future.
Very comfortable grip, decent trigger, and great price point IMO. The P320 Compact has become my go to pistol since owning it, for some reason I really like it compared to my Glocks.
We're on a similar path. I've enjoyed Glocks for a long time. But in recent years, I've really appreciated the majesty of the M&P40 and, most recently, the P320. They're all excellent pistols, though.
I know it is off topic but I had to ask, What is this you speak of with layaway for firearms? I know some places but they all charged some ridiculous price to do the layaway plan.
All 3 of the local stores I frequent offer 90 days same as cash. $50/10% down whichever is highest and then 3 payments in 90 days....
if enjoying the P320 consider taking the armorer course. it's well worth it. the platform is truly unique and amazing.
if enjoying the P320 consider taking the armorer course. it's well worth it. the platform is truly unique and amazing.
Can the armorer's course be taken online by any chance?
I would like to be able to disassemble and reassemble the striker unit and the FCU.
===========================
My P320 Carry .40 has arrived... and today, got some Talon rubber. Fantastic pistol. For me, this is about the ideal carry size, though I wouldn't mind if it was a little longer, like 4.25".
The full size at 4.7" is just a little longer than I prefer to carry, but boy does it shoot like a dream!
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1030892.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1030892.jpg.html)
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1030890.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1030890.jpg.html)
Carried in a High Noon Bare Asset holster.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1030885.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1030885.jpg.html)
Just adding a couple more pics with the Talon Rubber Grip wraps... These add some nice traction and just a tiny bit of cushion.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1000891-Edit.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1000891-Edit.jpg.html)
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1000885-Edit.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1000885-Edit.jpg.html)
I am a fan of my 9mm P320. I easily shoot it better than my G19 when cold. I did add the Apex Flat Trigger to mine, initially just to try something different. Now the flat trigger is going to stay on the gun, just be warned if you are considering going that route. It killed the factory trigger for me.
I looked at the Apex but I have no problems with the stock one. I shoot at about the limits of my personal accuracy with it so not sure what it would buy me...
I really like the stock trigger and appreciate that it doesn't have a funky hinged lever inside the trigger shoe... Something that annoys me in the brands that use that kind of trigger shoe mechanism.
Just got a 320 compact. Standard sights. 450 out the door. Hope it lives up to the hype.
I looked at the Apex but I have no problems with the stock one. I shoot at about the limits of my personal accuracy with it so not sure what it would buy me...
I recently installed the Apex flat trigger in my P320 Compact only because the OEM trigger would sting my finger. Not really sure what was going on but I've never had that happen before with any firearm. The P320 trigger would not pinch, but sting my trigger finger somehow. The Apex trigger does not sting and the trigger pull is the same as it was with the OEM trigger.
I called Sig and attempted to get the updated trigger they are now using in the P320's but no luck. They wanted me to send them the pistol and wait up to 3 months. I was unable to purchase the updated Sig trigger so I went the Apex route and have been satisfied, no more sting.
Just got a 320 compact. Standard sights. 450 out the door. Hope it lives up to the hype.
Great gun, great price. You'll find they shoot really well! The only enhancement that I appreciate is the addition of Talon rubber grip wrap.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1000887.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1000887.jpg.html)
I recently installed the Apex flat trigger in my P320 Compact only because the OEM trigger would sting my finger. Not really sure what was going on but I've never had that happen before with any firearm. The P320 trigger would not pinch, but sting my trigger finger somehow. The Apex trigger does not sting and the trigger pull is the same as it was with the OEM trigger.
I called Sig and attempted to get the updated trigger they are now using in the P320's but no luck. They wanted me to send them the pistol and wait up to 3 months. I was unable to purchase the updated Sig trigger so I went the Apex route and have been satisfied, no more sting.
What did Sig update about the trigger? (All of mine are of the very latest production).
I believe more material was added to the trigger to eliminate the sting people were experiencing. Also they filled the square gap in the frame by adding material at the top of the trigger.
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I'm loving mine so far, 9 mm carry, easy to shoot. The m&p has been sitting in the safe and will most likely get traded or sold for another 320.
I'm loving mine so far, 9 mm carry, easy to shoot. The m&p has been sitting in the safe and will most likely get traded or sold for another 320.
I really love my P320s, but my M&Ps are too valued to let go of. They're fantastic pistols, as well. I can see how you might want to narrow down to just one system though.
I believe more material was added to the trigger to eliminate the sting people were experiencing. Also they filled the square gap in the frame by adding material at the top of the trigger.
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Thanks... I didn't know that they had changed the trigger.
I haven't upgraded my m&p trigger that's the only complaint I have. Besides minimal holsters for the 320
I haven't upgraded my m&p trigger that's the only complaint I have. Besides minimal holsters for the 320
The M&P trigger is very easily improved to become quite nice indeed. I really love the M&P pistols, as well.
I really, really wish there were more sight options for the P320. I'm digging mine, but I need to do something about the sights. Since my eye surgery last year for a detached retina, I have some definite preferences in sights these days. :(
What are people using for suppressor/optic sights? I would love to switch mine out for fiber optic front/black rear.
What are people using for suppressor/optic sights? I would love to switch mine out for fiber optic front/black rear.
Mine is the threaded version with factory suppressor height night sights. Suarez makes plain black ones that (should) work for RMR cowitness, but I'm also looking for a fiber-optic front and plain rear in suppressor height. That's why I emailed Dawson to see if they could make me some.
Let me know what they say. That's where I normally get sights.
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Mine is the threaded version with factory suppressor height night sights. Suarez makes plain black ones that (should) work for RMR cowitness, but I'm also looking for a fiber-optic front and plain rear in suppressor height. That's why I emailed Dawson to see if they could make me some.THer pic I posted earlier in this thread is a Suarez with an RMR, and does work.
I really, really wish there were more sight options for the P320. I'm digging mine, but I need to do something about the sights. Since my eye surgery last year for a detached retina, I have some definite preferences in sights these days. :(
I'm considering going with the Dawson fiber optic front sight. Of the Sig offerings, I prefer their contrast sights over their night sights. But I really need something like this Dawson fiber optic myself.
https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-precision-sig-p320-compact-fiber-optic-front-sights/
I love to have some hackathorn style in suppressor height. might try to turn some out on the Bridgeport when I get time...
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My carry 9mm has #6 front and #8 rear sights, shoots low for me but want to spend more time at the range with it first.
You guys are really making me want to add a red dot to my compact. I use it mostly suppressed, so seeing over my suppressor seems like a great reason to snag one. Worried about my bad astigmatism though :(
hope to get my 320rx home in the next couple weeks
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Lately (as I am not getting any younger) I've been having a more difficult time seeing the front sight against most targets. I really think I NEED to get a Dawson Red Fiber Optic on at least on my most often carried pistol. I think that would help tremendously under all conditions except very dark conditions, where I am likely to be using a light of some sort anyway. I'll keep a couple around with night sights, but I think the Dawson Red Fiber Optic may become my standard front sight on a number of pistols.
take a look at the ameriglo hackathorns. big orange dot on the front with tritium insert and a black rear. the contrast helps me with some post laser corrective surgery issues I have.
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take a look at the ameriglo hackathorns. big orange dot on the front with tritium insert and a black rear. the contrast helps me with some post laser corrective surgery issues I have.
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That sounds interesting!
I used to run the ameriglos but the paint does nothing if you're at a dim indoor range or shaded area that isn't dark enough for the trit to show. Same with Trij HD.
Ever since I had a 1911 with green FO, been doing FO ever since.
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take a look at the ameriglo hackathorns. big orange dot on the front with tritium insert and a black rear. the contrast helps me with some post laser corrective surgery issues I have.
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I like the protector series. Bright yellow/green dot instead of orange. I had the Hackathorn but found that the orange dulled over time. The yellow is still going strong nice and bright almost a year later.
I like the protector series. Bright yellow/green dot instead of orange. I had the Hackathorn but found that the orange dulled over time. The yellow is still going strong nice and bright almost a year later.
Good to know I need to look out for that. Haven't had mine anywhere close to enough time to consider a long term eval on my part. I just needed something to cover some mild double vision issues I have in low light that plays hell with 3 dot sights. Anything that glows within about arms distance to me, I see double of. 3 dot tritiums meant I saw 6 dots that were easily confused. I still see 2 dots with the hacks but the black rears eliminate the majority of the confusion issue...
travward89
09-20-16, 12:41
Lately (as I am not getting any younger) I've been having a more difficult time seeing the front sight against most targets. I really think I NEED to get a Dawson Red Fiber Optic on at least on my most often carried pistol. I think that would help tremendously under all conditions except very dark conditions, where I am likely to be using a light of some sort anyway. I'll keep a couple around with night sights, but I think the Dawson Red Fiber Optic may become my standard front sight on a number of pistols.
Just a heads up that the Dawson front sights require quite a bit of filing to get them to fit. In the two that I have installed, both took around an hour to get the front sight to press fit. I could barely get the sights in the dovetail for a test fit on both guns.
Just a heads up that the Dawson front sights require quite a bit of filing to get them to fit. In the two that I have installed, both took around an hour to get the front sight to press fit. I could barely get the sights in the dovetail for a test fit on both guns.
Thanks for the heads up. Perhaps there is another brand of Fiber Optic front sights that would work as well and be easier to install? I'm convinced that I want FO on my carry guns. Night sights only help me in dark situations, which are not common for me. I keep a few guns with night sights around just for those rare situations. Most of the time, though Fiber Optic is what I really lust after.
Just saw that AZ game and fish is issuing the 320 now. Switched from the 226. Talked to a ranger this week who really liked his.
Just saw that AZ game and fish is issuing the 320 now. Switched from the 226. Talked to a ranger this week who really liked his.
Nice to hear that! I understand how much they must appreciate the new pistols. Are they in .40S&W?
I also have been on the Glock train for many years after trying nearly every offering from the top manufacturs. I picked up a 320 carry in 9mm with nite sites. Changed out the grip to a compact/small and am really liking it. I had not been shooting much over the last few years, I think it was because Glocks make me bleed after 50 rnds or less. After getting the 320 I've shot more in 2-3 months than I had in the past 2-3 years. I'm looking at a P229 Legion next but I keep thinking about a full size 320 as well.
I also have been on the Glock train for many years after trying nearly every offering from the top manufacturs. I picked up a 320 carry in 9mm with nite sites. Changed out the grip to a compact/small and am really liking it. I had not been shooting much over the last few years, I think it was because Glocks make me bleed after 50 rnds or less. After getting the 320 I've shot more in 2-3 months than I had in the past 2-3 years. I'm looking at a P229 Legion next but I keep thinking about a full size 320 as well.
You are going to really love the full size P320. It is my favorite, by far, of the Full 40, Carry 40, & Compact 9 that I have.
I'm going to add a Full size 9mm X-change kit, as well, just for "powder puff" target shooting.
I've had nothing but good things to say about my 9 compact. I may try out a new trigger when I have time to tinker with it.
I added the flat Apex trigger and Like it but I shoot with the pad of my trigger finger. I like the carry 9mm. Haven't had the chance to shoot a full size yet. I'd like to shoot the .45.
The full size is definitely my favorite and is my first choice for places where the longer slide isn't a factor, like home, RV, truck, Jeep, woods uses. That 4.7" barrel/slide is just a dream to shoot - feels really good and makes accurate shooting really easy. Fantastic choice, especially in forty, where it is so soft, comfortable-shooting. The Carry and Compact versions with the 3.9" barrel are a little easier to carry, but the difference when in the holster isn't dramatic.
I also found the P320 to be a fantastic firearm from Sig. I got mine ( 40 cal) only a few months after its introduction .
I was pleasantly surprised how it's caught on n is becoming a real rival for Glocks n S&W M+Ps.
While I appreciate the fire control unit concept in theory it really is just too expensive to practically take advantage of.
I think it is geared more towards winning the military MHS contract although it sure makes deep cleaning easy.
Sig when it counts !!!
Nice to hear that! I understand how much they must appreciate the new pistols. Are they in .40S&W?
I forgot to ask :(
Does anyone know any places to get deals on the conversion kits? I'd rather get one of those than buy a whole p320, but if I have to I guess I will for the full size.
I believe that this Sig is one of the remaining sidearms that the US Army is looking into as its next (Modular) handgun.... Smith & Wesson /GD was just disqualified and I think Glock, Sig and maybe Beretta are the handguns still in the mix.
I believe that this Sig is one of the remaining sidearms that the US Army is looking into as its next (Modular) handgun.... Smith & Wesson /GD was just disqualified and I think Glock, Sig and maybe Beretta are the handguns still in the mix.
Yes, the P320 is by far the most versatile, modular of them all. It wouldn't be all that surprising if it is the winning pistol. I think that would be awesome for Sig, as they have done a great job with this pistol.
I also think .40S&W would be a smart choice for our military, with a move to JHP ammo (which they are considering). The pistol is the least important of the military's firearms, but still, going with forty would bump up the ballistic capability (vs. 9mm) with little sacrifice in capacity. I can't see them going with .45 again, as the capacity is so low and weight/cost of the ammo is so high. And if they do stay with 9mm, I think there's a good chance that they will at least choose more effective ammunition (JHP bullets).
Cincinnatus15
10-01-16, 14:10
Yes, the P320 is by far the most versatile, modular of them all. It wouldn't be all that surprising if it is the winning pistol. I think that would be awesome for Sig, as they have done a great job with this pistol.
I also think .40S&W would be a smart choice for our military, with a move to JHP ammo (which they are considering). The pistol is the least important of the military's firearms, but still, going with forty would bump up the ballistic capability (vs. 9mm) with little sacrifice in capacity. I can't see them going with .45 again, as the capacity is so low and weight/cost of the ammo is so high. And if they do stay with 9mm, I think there's a good chance that they will at least choose more effective ammunition (JHP bullets).
Except...
http://soldiersystems.net/2014/09/25/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/
I've never been convinced of the utility of 40 over 9mm and especially not given modern HP design
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I agree with many of the points made by the FBI in the linked article. However, they fail to address a significant element - busting through barriers and busting through bone obstacles.
And I see nothing there to motivate me to sell my 10mm, .45auto, and .40S&W semi-auto pistols. (I'm not selling my 9mm pistols, either.)
The FBI bases it's penetration and expansion comparison on ballistic gelatin with one or two layers of denim. Unfortunately, that is an exceptionally imperfect model of the human body or an animal's body. Experienced hunters will know this better than anyone.
While the best 9mm of premium defense ammo may perform somewhat similarly (though not exactly as well) as .40 and .45 in ballistic gelatin, the greater ability of the heavier .40 and .45 caliber bullets to smash through harder obstacles and bone is a factor.
This doesn't mean that I wouldn't trust, nor carry a 9mm pistol, as I do, on occasion, when I need to carry a really small pistol.
I don't think 9mm is necessarily a bad choice for law enforcement or military, particularly since so many LE shooters are "struggling shooters" who get very little practice. Capacity is important and so is ease of handling recoil. 9mm has capacity and clearly is easier for "struggling shooters" to handle. And it can reasonably be rationalized and said that it is "good enough" for agency use, particularly where budget is a major driver in the decision!
So, I don't think 9mm is a terrible move for LE, but it's not necessarily a good move for me as a civilian well familiar with shooting various calibers and who practices regularly.
As the article mentions, Glock 40s were the pistols that struggling shooters were having a hard time with. Part of this is the platform itself. Forty caliber Glocks, especially the G23 and the G27 are especially snappy. And even MORE so with 155 gr. and 165 gr. ammo. Other platforms (Browning HiPower, M&P, Sig P320, HK VP40, HK USP, etc.) handle .40 caliber much more comfortably and "softer" than the Glock forty caliber models do. And selecting 180 gr. ammo in .40S&W caliber also provides a softer felt-recoil. These are significant factors which were not addressed in the "report"!
For the regular civilian who can choose the best platform for themselves as well as the best caliber for themselves, following the FBI in lock-step doesn't make any sense. Though it might for newbie and "struggling shooters".
For an experienced shooter who is skilled and practices regularly, choosing .45auto or .40 caliber in a platforms like the M&Ps, HK, and Sig P320s can make plenty of sense. If not, I guess we all need to sell all the pistols and calibers that we own and just buy Glock 17s and Glock 19s. No point in having, nor relying upon anything by 9mm, eh? Not!
I like the G17 and the G19 and shoot them. Same with the G21SF and G30. I've used these guns for years. I also have a G23, a G23 Gen 4, and a G22 Gen 4. Compared to the M&Ps, Browning HiPowers, VP40, USP 40, and Sig P320s (all in forty) I find the Glock forty caliber pistols to be noticeably harsher and "sharper" in recoil.
For carry and defensive use, I prefer 180 gr. HST in .40 caliber, with an M&P40, M&P40C, or P320 platform. I shoot these pistols well in this caliber; they are soft-shooting and easy to shoot, and they don't lose much capacity to 9mm. What they do offer is a greater ability to bust through heavy bone, such as is likely to be encountered by the outstretched arms of an assailant, coupled with heavier clothing, and breastbone - other obstacles like glass, and in defense of animals who have plenty of heavy bone to deal with, as well. .45auto and .40S&W can outperform 9mm in penetrating these and other obstacles.
A real human adversary, with arms outstretched in front of himself, presents a far different set of target characteristics than a block of jello with two pieces of denim on front of it.
Those who choose to carry 9 (rather than 40 and 45) are certainly free and welcome to make this personal choice. I don't mind at all. If you are happy with it, then I am content and happy for you! :)
But 9mm is not MY first choice in a defensive pistol caliber, regardless of what the bureaucrats decide to choose for the men and women who go into harm's way every day to serve and protect us. I know there are many LE personnel who would not be happy about having to move to 9mm.
I put more faith and trust in a heavier bullet (180 gr. or 230 gr. HST, Gold Dot, Ranger, etc.) carrying more momentum to bust through bone and obstacles. And I shoot them enough to be competent with them. I happen to be among those of us who are not "struggling shooters" under a government agency directive.
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-01-16, 21:36
this^^^^
My issue has always been the increased performance didn't balance out with the decreased capacity. To me if you needed to make the compromise between capacity and bullet size it made more sense to step up to a .45. I've always tended towards 9mm for ccw just for the higher capacity. No such thing as having too much ammo when it comes to a gunfight...
My issue has always been the increased performance didn't balance out with the decreased capacity. To me if you needed to make the compromise between capacity and bullet size it made more sense to step up to a .45. I've always tended towards 9mm for ccw just for the higher capacity. No such thing as having too much ammo when it comes to a gunfight...
9mm is ok. I'll grab a G17 or G19 that I might have on hand as fast as I'll grab a VP40 or M&P45C, if I need to grab a gun. But .40 caliber gives up relatively little capacity to 9mm, as compared to what .45auto gives up in capacity! My G17 holds 18 rounds. My G19 holds 16 rounds. My P320 40 Carry model holds 16 rounds and isn't much different in size than my G19. While my G21SF holds 14 round, all of my other 45s are down around 7 to 11 rounds. My P320 40 Carry offers a great balance between high capacity and good potency. Most .45autos that people carry are down to around 7 to 10 rounds or so.
I put value in high capacity and I also value potency. For me, .40S&W strikes a great balance between those two qualities and, in the right platform, is very comfortable to shoot and controllable with 180 gr. HST, Gold Dot, or Ranger.
I agree with many of the points made by the FBI in the linked article. However, they fail to address a significant element - busting through barriers and busting through bone obstacles.
And I see nothing there to motivate me to sell my 10mm, .45auto, and .40S&W semi-auto pistols. (I'm not selling my 9mm pistols, either.)
The FBI bases it's penetration and expansion comparison on ballistic gelatin with one or two layers of denim. Unfortunately, that is an exceptionally imperfect model of the human body or an animal's body. Experienced hunters will know this better than anyone.
While the best 9mm of premium defense ammo may perform somewhat similarly (though not exactly as well) as .40 and .45 in ballistic gelatin, the greater ability of the heavier .40 and .45 caliber bullets to smash through harder obstacles and bone is a factor.
This doesn't mean that I wouldn't trust, nor carry a 9mm pistol, as I do, on occasion, when I need to carry a really small pistol.
I don't think 9mm is necessarily a bad choice for law enforcement or military, particularly since so many LE shooters are "struggling shooters" who get very little practice. Capacity is important and so is ease of handling recoil. 9mm has capacity and clearly is easier for "struggling shooters" to handle. And it can reasonably be rationalized and said that it is "good enough" for agency use, particularly where budget is a major driver in the decision!
So, I don't think 9mm is a terrible move for LE, but it's not necessarily a good move for me as a civilian well familiar with shooting various calibers and who practices regularly.
As the article mentions, Glock 40s were the pistols that struggling shooters were having a hard time with. Part of this is the platform itself. Forty caliber Glocks, especially the G23 and the G27 are especially snappy. And even MORE so with 155 gr. and 165 gr. ammo. Other platforms (Browning HiPower, M&P, Sig P320, HK VP40, etc.) handle .40 caliber much more comfortably and "softer" than the Glock forty caliber models do. And selecting 180 gr. ammo in .40S&W caliber also provides a softer felt-recoil. These are significant factors which were not addressed in the "report"!
For the regular civilian who can choose the best platform for themselves as well as the best caliber for themselves, following the FBI in lock-step doesn't make any sense. Though it might for newbie and "struggling shooters".
For an experienced shooter who is skilled and practices regularly, choosing .45auto or .40 caliber in a platforms like the M&Ps, HK, and Sig P320s can make plenty of sense. If not, I guess we all need to sell all the pistols and calibers that we own and just buy Glock 17s and Glock 19s. No point in having, nor relying upon anything by 9mm, eh? Not!
I like the G17 and the G19 and shoot them. Same with the G21SF and G30. I've used these guns for years. I also have a G23, a G23 Gen 4, and a G22 Gen 4. Compared to the M&Ps, Browning HiPowers, VP40, and Sig P320s (all in forty) I find the Glock forty caliber pistols to be harsher and "sharper" in recoil.
For carry and defensive use, I prefer 180 gr. HST in .40 caliber, with an M&P40, M&P40C, or P320 platform. I shoot these pistols well in this caliber; they are soft-shooting and easy to shoot, and they don't lose much capacity to 9mm. What they do offer is a greater ability to bust through heavy bone, such as is likely to be encountered by the outstretched arms of an assailant, coupled with heavier clothing, and breastbone - other obstacles like glass, and in defense of animals who have plenty of heavy bone to deal with, as well. .45auto and .40S&W can outperform 9mm in penetrating these and other obstacles.
A real human adversary, with arms outstretched in front of himself, presents a far different set of target characteristics than a block of jello with two pieces of denim on front of it.
Those who choose to carry 9 (rather than 40 and 45) are certainly free and welcome to make this personal choice. I don't mind at all. If you are happy with it, then I am content and happy for you! :)
But 9mm is not MY first choice in a defensive pistol caliber, regardless of what the bureaucrats decide to choose for the men and women who go into harm's way every day to serve and protect us. I know there are many LE personnel who would not be happy about having to move to 9mm.
I put more faith and trust in a heavier bullet (180 gr. or 230 gr. HST, Gold Dot, Ranger, etc.) carrying more momentum to bust through bone and obstacles. And I shoot them enough to be competent with them. I happen to be among those of us who are not "struggling shooters" under a government agency directive.
I'm sorrry but your premise is wrong. They test ammo through all manner of barriers. Their new 9mm ammo outperforms all the 40/45 they've ever fielded or tested.
And since we know that big Army (the largest user of the new MHS) refuses to perform preventive maintenance on small arms... using 40S&W which reduces the guns service life, would be a very poor decision for DoD. If they do finally switch to HP ammo, then anything other than 9mm is a waste of time, resources, and ultimately lives.
They test ammo through all manner of barriers. Their new 9mm ammo outperforms all the 40/45 they've ever fielded or tested.
Who is "they"?
Where do you see specifics/results of barrier busting tests with "their new 9mm ammo"?
And, just what is this "new ammo"?
What you're saying infers that terminal ballistics with the best .45auto and .40S&W loads are inferior to the "new" 9mm on all counts. Sorry, but I'm not drinking that coolaid. Imbibe to your thirst's content. ;)
Choose what you wish. I'm going with .40S&W and .45auto in my larger carry guns and 9mm in my subcompacts.
A real human adversary, with arms outstretched in front of himself, presents a far different set of target characteristics than a block of jello with two pieces of denim on front of it.
"jello" silliness should be left out of serious debate. You should know ballistic gelatin was developed to replace and be more consistent than shooting animals. And it consistently matches actual shootings.
The 12" penetration minimum was developed exactly with your above scenario with extremities in mind.
Two layers of heavy denim were found to reliably plug HP designs that could be plugged.
Bullets that did well in windshield testing did well against bone and/or bone simulant. This is where you are both right and wrong. Right that heavier bullets generally do better against the windshield test, wrong that it is a big difference among service calibers with modern bullet designs.
Back to the 320. I'm waiting to see a frame with built in light before I'm interested. And that goes for any make, I can't believe it's almost 2017 and hasn't been done yet.
Ballistic gel (not edible jello, but jello essentially) was designed to provide a consistent, standardized media for comparing one round to another. It does not replicate results of shooting through human arms/forearms, breastplates, ribs, or skulls. It is very useful and convenient in comparing one round to another through a standardized media, that's all.
I prefer the heavier caliber for it's greater ability to bust through possible arms/bones, breastplates, skulls, ribs, glass, metal, whatever. Estimations of whether differences are great or modest are merely that. Where there are differences, I prefer the better of the two. Nothing wrong with that choice. Those who prefer .45auto, .40S&W, etc. do so for that reason.
9mm may be a very sensible choice for agency use, with a wide generic range of skilled and "struggling" shooters, where armorer maintenance, training, and ammunition cost considerations play a major part in weapon selection, but it isn't the best choice for all who are unbridled from such agency constraints.
We each choose our pistols and calibers according to our individual preferences. If 9mm was "the perfect" caliber, and superior to the alternatives, we should all sell our .45s, 10mms, .357sigs, .40s, ..44s, .357 magnums, etc., buy a G17 and some Gold Dot G2 and forget all the rest. Sorry. That ain't happening. While I do carry a G17RTF or a G19 Gen 3 on occasion, and stuff them with 147 or 124 gr HST, Gold Dot, or Ranger ammo, and trust in them, those pistols and 9mm are not my first choice of defensive weapons, nor of caliber.
Suit yourself. And the rest of us will do the same.
As for waiting for a frame with built-in light... don't hold your breath. I think you're in for a long wait. In the meantime, if you want to, you can pop on a Surefire or Streamlight TLR and have at it right now.
Late night insomnia reasoning:
IMO .40 is worthless overall. It makes an OKish Limited gun and its merit lies in its ubiquity.
Being real, 9mm didn't start really coming along for a while. I dare say, and please correct me if I am incorrect, that we didn't start getting really good 9mm Duty/SD rounds until the last 10 years. For the longest time it was either Winchester Ranger T or Federal 115 +P+ BPLE. Nothing to sneeze at but the main draw was capacity.
I stuck with .45 because I was issued it, trained on it, and got used to it. I had the muscle memory. The .45 has drawbacks and isn't the "ultimate" round but.....
Most shootings with a pistol are well within a 3-7 yd threshold. And I agree, Gelatin is Gelatin. Jim Cirillo wrote a good book on why he liked .45s, .44 snubnoses, etc.
I personally seen a shoot where subject had a bladed weapon and was shot at about 10 ft. It was a panicked affair as subj. did not respond to English commands. He got hit with Winchester Ranger +P 230 grains at waist level including some spine hits. He (barely) survived but that made a believer out of me. Wider diameter, 950 fps(give or take), short range, greater margin of error. Subj was paralyzed immediately (and permantly), lost a kidney, and almost bled out.
But he was effectively stopped. 9mm may have done the same thing, maybe not. Those rounds got in long and deep.
10MM is a great and underused caliber as you can download it to .40 factors or take it up to the old Miami Vice Norma loads. Maybe hotter. Especially now that Glock 40 exists. .45 was made for pissed off filipinos on opium, but 10MM was made for guys on cocaine and angel dust.
No such thing as a miracle caliber, and I consider 9mm to be an excellent 60% round. Accessible to women and shorter people, evolving ballistic tech, and a good "if I could only have one" caliber.
But I agree that some of the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater on .45. At close range, it can be very effective. It just has so much mass.
Who remembers Flying Ashcans? However at range, in LE anyway, if you dont know your hold; it loses a lot of its advantage, almost unforgiveably so (but you should be getting a rifle or shotgun with slugs at that point anyway).
9mm gives you more flatter trajectory to work with and more chances to walk it in.
I'm glad I was turned on to PPC super young (like age 19ish). It helped me appreciate range and precision. Revolver fighting was/is a dying art and I got exposed to a lot of concepts like drop, range, taking your time. Same with autos.
Handgunnery is such a contested art. A lot of people are not taught to win but to qualify and make it easy for instructor.
It is super basic but it's like Highlander "there can be only one". I've been taught by guys that policed long before any lives mattering. They had no qualms making it known that there are different bullets for different reasons. One guy kept an 8" Model 27 in his briefcase (1960s era jump bags) and loaded with some hot .357. He insisted on N frame because he wanted to use hot hot loads. His main was a 4" Model 27 (to use same speedloaders).
The long barrel was expressly for standoff/perimeter as at that time AR15s were not prolific for police or too expensive for personal use on duty to be taken as evidence on cop pay. He would practice at 50-75 yards. Double action and Single. No scope, just irons.
There's a lot that has been lost to time because nobody paid attention. Nothing has changed. Bad people still exist. They come in all shapes, sizes, and levels of preparedness.
It is easier now but, I ramble. I think that different calibers have a place.
Pardon my tangent.
Estimation? No, it is not difficult to look up testing data. Windshield, car door, it's all there. Cold hard numbers. And the bullet performance has been compared to actual shootings.
I'm sorry but you are going back decades in bullet design and wound ballistics understanding by talking about 10MM and 357 SIG being relevant today.
I have a G17 gen3 and light. It works reliably and I shoot it pretty well. I'd like a smaller, smoother, more concealable built in light. It's probably the only thing that would get me to move to a different platform. I think it's a way overdue factory option but the 320 frame setup makes it possible for a third party.
Estimation? No, it is not difficult to look up testing data. Windshield, car door, it's all there. Cold hard numbers. And the bullet performance has been compared to actual shootings.
I'm sorry but you are going back decades in bullet design and wound ballistics understanding by talking about 10MM and 357 SIG being relevant today.
I have a G17 gen3 and light. It works reliably and I shoot it pretty well. I'd like a smaller, smoother, more concealable built in light. It's probably the only thing that would get me to move to a different platform. I think it's a way overdue factory option but the 320 frame setup makes it possible for a third party.
All where? What cold hard numbers???
I'm sorry, but many find 10mm and .357sig plenty relevant today, and these calibers also benefit from recent bullet designs. The fact that they are not among the most common calibers hardly makes them irrelevant. You must be confused about something.
Same with .45 auto and .40S&W - quite relevant. Nine is relevant too. All of these calibers have benefitted from recent bullet designs and are totally relevant for a great many people. And they each have different performance characteristics.
You're not going wrong by choosing a G17. Don't feel defensive when others prefer different choices. It's not a bad choice of platform, nor of caliber. And it's not necessarily "the best" choice, either. It's just one choice. Not everyone else buys into the "9mm rules all" cool-aid. There are other excellent options that plenty of people prefer.
I also have put aside my Glock in favour of the P320. It's a joy to shoot and I am slowly amassing gear for it. It took some getting use to when I first shot it. I know it's over used, but the high bore axis did make the gun feel different in my hands. But after a few hundred rounds I'm sold.
I just wish they'd let me carry it on duty.
We just changed our department firearms policy from strictly P220 to any approved Sig so I've been carrying my 320 after about 500 rounds on the range
I'd like a smaller, smoother, more concealable built in light. It's probably the only thing that would get me to move to a different platform. I think it's a way overdue factory option but the 320 frame setup makes it possible for a third party.
SIG already has a laser frame, word is they're working on a light....
SIG already has a laser frame, word is they're working on a light....
Yeah.......they have it...somewhere in their R&D labs....
I also have put aside my Glock in favour of the P320. It's a joy to shoot and I am slowly amassing gear for it. It took some getting use to when I first shot it. I know it's over used, but the high bore axis did make the gun feel different in my hands. But after a few hundred rounds I'm sold.
I just wish they'd let me carry it on duty.
The bore axis definitely feels different coming from Glocks and M&Ps, but the guns shoot so softly and nicely. My favorite is the full size with the 4.7" barrel. Man, that one shoots like it was made by Rolls Royce. I like the full size forty so much that I just ordered the full size 9mm X-Change kit. I'll use the FCU from my 9mm Compact in the Full Size conversion because I never use the Compact 9. I can imagine that the full size P320 with 4.7" barrel nine shoots so soft that it would almost feel like a .380 - that would make for a fun plinking gun!
I'm out and about today, carrying the Full size .40S&W. It's easy to conceal and to carry with my usual t-shirt and shorts. And it's a joy to shoot, as well.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1030939.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1030939.jpg.html)
I guess the P320 trigger isn't perfect. Came across this on the tube
Apex it ?
https://youtu.be/cE7vfOTAPBg
I've never been very comfortable shooting Glocks... the grip angle just doesn't work for me. The P320 however feels great in my hand and points more naturally for me just like my 1911's, Hi-Powers, H&Ks, etc... never understood why the grip angles were so different on Glocks. I know they work... they're just not my bag of chips so to speak.
I have 2 P320's... my P320C and my wive's P320 SubC. The trigger on her pistol is SO much smoother than the one in my Compact. I even put in the Apex Flat trigger in my pistol and it's still not as smooth as her SubC ... and she hasn't even shot her pistol yet. I'm tempted to swap out the trigger housings as she'd likely never know... but I'd rather get the 'kinks' worked out in my pistol. I'm concerned that I may have bent or damaged the trigger spring when doing the Apex swap but it still functions so I'm not sure that's it.
Either way... I still have one Glock left in my collection that's been moded and I have a lot of extra $$ invested in it but I'm thinking about trying to trade it out for another P320 or an HK VP9... or a VP45 should that ever be produced.
redsnake,
Isn't the FCG / module the same between the various size frames ?
Odd there such a difference in pull.
redsnake,
Isn't the FCG / module the same between the various size frames ?
Odd there such a difference in pull.
Correct... assuming it's for the 9mm/40 and then different for the 45acp. The Subcompact FCG is much smoother than the one in my Compact version. Honestly I couldn't tell you why. Only way I can relate.. is say an out of the box 1911 w/a functioning trigger vs a nice crisp tuned trigger done by a decent smithy... :\
I think you may "mix up" modules during a detail clean with the wifes.............
I guess the P320 trigger isn't perfect. Came across this on the tube
Apex it ?
https://youtu.be/cE7vfOTAPBg
Some people like it. I'm fine with the stock trigger. Think it's more of a personal preference thing...
Some people like it. I'm fine with the stock trigger. Think it's more of a personal preference thing...
Oh, I'm not judging the trigger, I had no choice but to Apex my M&P, worst trigger I've ever felt.
Just was surprised there was an option for the Sig being the stock trigger is so good
I Apex'd my P320 because I'd never shot a pistol/AR or anything else w/the Flat faced trigger and wanted to give it a try. I'll say it does look better to my eye... but both the Stock and Apex trigger feel good to me. Not sure I'd spend the $$ to Apex another one unless it was for looks. Now on S&W or Glocks I can't say that... as I've never shot one of those Apex'd.
Oh, I'm not judging the trigger, I had no choice but to Apex my M&P, worst trigger I've ever felt.
Just was surprised there was an option for the Sig being the stock trigger is so good
I hear you. Was the same way with my M&P. I haven't tried the Sig Apex but it's supposed to reduce the pull weight somewhat, which is what people like. It's not a night and day difference like the M&P was....
My three P320s (Full 40, Carry 40, Compact 9) all have trigger pulls that are alike enough that I can't tell them apart. They are also sweet enough that I won't be doing any modifications to them. They were all recently purchased, and all the pistols have the latest changes that SIG has made to the P320s, so I believe them to be of recent manufacture.
I've had great fortune with my M&P triggers, as well, except for the M&P45C, which did have a very heavy (8+ lbs) trigger pull. All the 45C needed, though, is an Apex sear and striker block. That transformed the trigger into something wonderful!
Redsnake, you might try a disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly of both yours and your wife's pistols. Be sure to remove the FCU on each in the process. Perhaps the trigger on yours will get better as a result! And your wife will be just as happy.
But seriously, if the difference is that dramatic. Send yours to SIG. I'm sure they will take care of you. They can easily change out a part or two in the FCU and make it all better.
Redsnake, you might try a disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly of both yours and your wife's pistols. Be sure to remove the FCU on each in the process. Perhaps the trigger on yours will get better as a result! And your wife will be just as happy.
But seriously, if the difference is that dramatic. Send yours to SIG. I'm sure they will take care of you. They can easily change out a part or two in the FCU and make it all better.
I think I'll try taking my FCU apart and cleaning and re-lubing it to see if that 'smooths' the action up. I still really like the pistol but would like it more if the FCU was as smooth in my pistol as it is in my wives. :)
This thread must have been in my subconscious. Bought a P320 Compact today.
Ordered an Apex flat trigger also.
.
https://s15.postimg.org/478gil0zv/Full_Size_Render_9.jpg
Got it in, spring is hinky.
https://s15.postimg.org/ryv10jqmz/Apex_320_now.jpg
CanineCombatives
12-06-16, 18:56
Just a couple things for folks that may not have tried all three frame sizes, I run the small frames on everything, compact and full, but it's a tradeoff, it's slimmer and less blocky than the medium and large frames but it has a more pronounced web of the hand cutout which significantly shortens the reach to the trigger, to offset that problem I use the APEX flat on my full size 320's but I found it's not needed on the compacts. This is one of the areas that sig is working on in terms of frame improvements going forward, also a more aggressive texturing from the factory that extends farther up the grip.
I have three Sig P320s, they are addictive.
P320 Compact, P320 Tacops w/threaded barrel and P320 with thumb safety.
I have numerous Sig 21 round 9mm factory mags, great mags.
I carry the P320 w/thumb safety most (1911 guy), I have a Surefire XC1 on it as well, great carry pistol with a IWB Kydex holster.
I will tell you have I have tried all three sizes of the P320 frames and keep coming back to the Med.
I have three Sig P320s, they are addictive.
I carry the P320 w/thumb safety most (1911 guy), I have a Surefire XC1 on it as well,
great carry pistol with a IWB Kydex holster.
I will tell you have I have tried all three sizes of the P320 frames and keep coming back to the Med.
We need pics of the TS P320
Good tip on the Med shell, I've heard that before on Sigtalk.com
I'm at 3 now. P320C, P320RX and a P320FS.
Wife shot my C for her first class and liked it well enough I may ditch the FS for another C or SC for her.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Here is a phone pic. Thumb safety is ambi and has a solid feel.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k312/awmp2006/sig%20p320_zpscjivhrdr.jpg (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/awmp2006/media/sig%20p320_zpscjivhrdr.jpg.html)
We need pics of the TS P320
Good tip on the Med shell, I've heard that before on Sigtalk.com
Anyone know a good holster for carry with tb/suppressor sights (owb)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Anyone know a good holster for carry with tb/suppressor sights (owb)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bravo could probably do it. That's who I got my 320RX holster from. The FNX-45T holster I have from them is also pretty nice.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
JM Kydex
Anyone know a good holster for carry with tb/suppressor sights (owb)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just saw that AZ game and fish is issuing the 320 now. Switched from the 226. Talked to a ranger this week who really liked his.
Yes. P320 Full Size in .40S&W.
The son of a friend of mine is an AZ Wildlife Manager (aka Game Warden). We were talking at Christmas dinner; they were recently issued P320 Full Size in .40S&W and he absolutely loves it. In his job they encounter everything from illegal poachers to drug smugglers to illegal border crossers. Challenging job, for sure, with a lot of dangers and hazards. P320 full size forty is a good side arm for that job.
I concur - awesome, very enjoyable pistol to shoot.
My three P320s (Full 40, Carry 40, Compact 9).... They were all recently purchased, and all the pistols have the latest changes that SIG has made to the P320s, so I believe them to be of recent manufacture.
Is there a reference for what those changes are and the timeline? I have a P320C in 9mm and it's really growing on me. I know I don't have the latest takedown lever. I'm curious to see if I'm missing some of the other updates.
For those that have them, how do you like the thumb safety?
The take down lever was reduced to a slimmer profile and the slide stop lever was minimized, as well. If you look at photos of different P320s (you can just Google for images), look for the moulding on the frame that surrounds the slide stop lever. The change is visibly different.
Well, my P320 has been excellent so far. I use it with a threaded barrel and a can mostly. Ordered an RMR and will have it milled for that. I have a Gen 1.
Is there a reference for what those changes are and the timeline? I have a P320C in 9mm and it's really growing on me. I know I don't have the latest takedown lever. I'm curious to see if I'm missing some of the other updates.
I've been trying to figure that out also. This video illustrates changes I wasn't aware of, especially inside the slide. My oldest Sig P320 is a January 2016 pistol and it does have all these changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt-i-W-Yh8I
I've had my Sig P320C for around 6 months now and just had my first malfunction at approximately 900 rounds. I have included a picture of the double feed.
It happened toward the end of my range session after ~150 rounds during rapid fire about 5 rounds into a full mag. The mag dropped free with a little more force than usual on the release and the slide seated itself. I racked the round out, reinserted the mag and had no further failure with the mag or the following one. I was finishing up for the day, but left feeling somewhat disconcerted. I'll keep an eye on the reliability, but don't feel great about this.
43492
I would not be too concerned, however there are known extractor tension issues, so i'm going to guess the new extractor will fix that if it really is an issue. I'm told that if the gun is less than 1.5 years old, it should have the new extractor assembly in the gun. Sometimes shit happens.
I would not be too concerned, however there are known extractor tension issues, so i'm going to guess the new extractor will fix that if it really is an issue. I'm told that if the gun is less than 1.5 years old, it should have the new extractor assembly in the gun. Sometimes shit happens.
I hope so, I know there has been extractor issues especially with the compact model, hoping its a one off.
Big L.E.E.
01-16-17, 12:43
What ammo? It's been a few years, but I seem to recall some folks have had issues with Winchester White Box not extracting in a manner similar to what's pictured.
What ammo? It's been a few years, but I seem to recall some folks have had issues with Winchester White Box not extracting in a manner similar to what's pictured.
Sellier & Bellot 9mm, 115 grain. It was actually the last box of of a 1000 rounds I have been shooting through. No issues in my P226, PPS, or P320 until now. Unfortunately no more to shoot through to confirm. I have around 500 rounds of Geco next up.
Strangely enough most of what I ran through this prior was mixed brass reloaded freedom munition ammo that was pretty spotty overall, but ran 100%.
Sellier & Bellot 9mm, 115 grain. It was actually the last box of of a 1000 rounds I have been shooting through. No issues in my P226, PPS, or P320 until now. Unfortunately no more to shoot through to confirm. I have around 500 rounds of Geco next up.
Strangely enough most of what I ran through this prior was mixed brass reloaded freedom munition ammo that was pretty spotty overall, but ran 100%.
Let us know if you get light strikes with the gecco... it's good ammo but it uses hard ass primers.
Honestly, I used to worry about my p320c after it had trouble with brown bear... then I started feeding it nothing but weak reloads... WHILE using a suppressor...never had a malfunction since. If a can and bunny farts won't mess it up, can't say I'm worried about hard primers on Russian steel case.
Cagemonkey
01-28-17, 14:17
Just purchased a 320 Compact w/safety (MA Compliant BS). Went to the range today. Light recoil and very accurate. The trigger was very good. Border line with my HK VP9. I found the grip comfortable, though the grip surface is slightly slippery to me. Will have to see how reliable it is in the long run. So far, I think I'm going to be jumping on the Band Wagon. Much more comfortable and easier to shoot than my Glock 19. Also, for those limited to 10 round mags, I don't suspect you'll have any reliability problems with the magazines. The mag bodies were dimpled to limit capacity and the round staggering was not changed. So far, I'm pretty impressed. Thats my 2 cents for what its worth.
So, I heard that Sig won't be selling the MHS version (at least at first anyway).
Anybody know the part numbers to order and build something like the photos being promoted as the XM17?
Basically P320 RX compact flat dark earth with manual safety?
556BlackRifle
01-28-17, 18:19
OP, if I said I wasn't influenced by your excellent post, I'd be lying. :cool: Thanks and here's a pic of the one I picked up this afternoon.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/Mike16610/P320_zpssnrx3uj0.jpg
OP, if I said I wasn't influenced by your excellent post, I'd be lying. :cool: Thanks and here's a pic of the one I picked up this afternoon.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/Mike16610/P320_zpssnrx3uj0.jpg
556BR... you're welcome! And, glad I could be of help! :D
Cagemonkey... Talon rubber grip panels make all the difference.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1000973.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1000973.jpg.html)
Cagemonkey
01-29-17, 17:48
Thanks. Been thinking of getting some.
556BR... you're welcome! And, glad I could be of help! :D
Cagemonkey... Talon rubber grip panels make all the difference.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1000973.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1000973.jpg.html)
How you like the talons on the 320? Been considering grabbing some
Nate
NAAH Tool Works
Naahtoolworks@gmail.com
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-29-17, 20:52
Shot 150 through mine today. Boringly reliable blaster. Basically the tool-gun most people want.
How you like the talons on the 320? Been considering grabbing some
Nate
NAAH Tool Works
Naahtoolworks@gmail.com
I have a dozen or so polymer frame pistols, Glocks, M&Ps, and P320s. I've got rubber Talons on every one of them. Wouldn't have it any other way. They do an awesome job of giving some traction and a slight bit of cushion, all while looking good!
I'm glad to learn that the US Army has adopted the P320 as their sidearm. I think the troops are going to like this pistol and that it will serve them (and us) well.
Arizona Dept of Game & Fish also transitioned to the P320 - full size and chambered in .40S&W. The full-size .40 is my favorite P320! Such a smooth, soft-shooting, and easy shooting pistol. Just a pleasure.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/SIG%20P320/P1000861-Edit.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/SIG%20P320/P1000861-Edit.jpg.html)
I just picked up my RX full size today. Trigger doesn't feel bad but it could be better. As soon as the gray guns trigger is back in stock I'm ordering it. Maybe head out tomorrow morning to break it in.
I just picked up my RX full size today. Trigger doesn't feel bad but it could be better. As soon as the gray guns trigger is back in stock I'm ordering it. Maybe head out tomorrow morning to break it in.
These have a really nice trigger to being with. Give it several hundred rounds of good fire-control surfaces "break-in", and you could probably happily save your money on aftermarket trigger devices.
crusader377
01-31-17, 22:25
I have to admit I haven't really paid any attention to the Sig P320 but since the military picked it up I feel that it is a must buy for me sometime in the next year. Will probably get the P320 compact in 9mm.
Shot 150 through mine today. Boringly reliable blaster. Basically the tool-gun most people want.
"Boringly reliable" and "tool-gun".
I have been eyeing a 320, but really want something that offers exciting failures and is wildly impractical!
I've had mine almost two years now. Very satisfied.
"Boringly reliable" and "tool-gun".
I have been eyeing a 320, but really want something that offers exciting failures and is wildly impractical!
Yep... them be just the kind of guns that really gets the interest up! :sarcastic:
These have a really nice trigger to being with. Give it several hundred rounds of good fire-control surfaces "break-in", and you could probably happily save your money on aftermarket trigger devices.
Yeah I know and I'm sure it will, but with Gisselle triggers in my ar's and apex'd m&p's it really hard to leave the 320 alone.
These have a really nice trigger to being with. Give it several hundred rounds of good fire-control surfaces "break-in", and you could probably happily save your money on aftermarket trigger devices.
I have a few thousand through mine and yeah while it is good, flat faced triggers are amazing. The new grey guns trigger takes some weight off as well.
Yes, almost every stock trigger can benefit from at least a little improvement. The nice thing with this gun is that if you don't want to spend money/effort on trigger work, you'll still have a pretty nice trigger that most people can easily be happy with.
Agreed. As far as stock triggers go the 320 seems slightly heavy, mine is around 7lbs, which is my main reason for going with the grey guns upgrade. Luckily manfuactures have long since improved on striker triggers with the VP9, PPQ and P320 all having good stock triggers.
So why do I see some of these with a manual safety, and some without?
FOR ME, that's the only issue I've had with CC and a Glock; a manual safety. Too easy to get grabby with and taking it off safe prematurely....
I'd be interested in having one with a manual safety.
IrishDevil
02-01-17, 22:40
If they release an X Carry frame with safety, I would pick up another 320. I purchased a 9mm Carry when they were first released, I shot and carried it for a while. Eventually sold it because there wasn't anything it could do better than one of my G19s and I'm heavy on Glock. My main gripe was I didn't feel like I could get a high enough grip. I shot it fine, the "feel" just wasn't there. I think the X frame will give me what I want, but I also want a thumb safety. I carry appendix, so a safety will help me feel a little better about pointing it at my junk.
jschmitt08
03-27-17, 12:01
http://www.apextactical.com/blog/index.php/apex-news/apex-reduces-trigger-pull-weight-with-two-new-triggers-for-sig-p320/ Apex is releasing new trigger only kits that claim to reduce the pull by 2 lbs.
Bayoublaster
04-13-17, 16:34
Since some have been interested in the rolling changes to the gun, I saw a new one in the shop today. We had a compact 9mm with night sights (SKU 320C-9-BSS) with no lightning cuts inside the slide.
I think the X frame will give me what I want, but I also want a thumb safety.
I carry appendix, so a safety will help me feel a little better about pointing it at my junk.
Agree, I also carried a compact for a while, but I went back to a 1911 cocked & locked.
LW Commander just has a better feel, and I like the thumb safety.
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