View Full Version : High School Shooting in Western Texas...
SilverBullet432
09-08-16, 12:51
Female shooter walks into band hall and shoots another student in the back. Police respond and she takes her life in the restroom. Also, one cop shot another cop who was responding to the situation.....
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/08/us/texas-high-school-shooting/index.html
Thoughts?
ETA: More local link: http://www.newswest9.com/story/33048409/sheriff-shooter-died-of-self-inflicted-gunshot-wound-at-alpine-high?sf35409102=1
LATEST NEWS: http://www.newswest9.com/story/33048409/sheriff-shooter-died-of-self-inflicted-gunshot-wound-at-alpine-high?sf35409102=1
New update: blog has good info and video.
http://www.cbs7.com/content/news/Apparent-active-shooter-reported-at-Alpine-High-School-392737491.html
Wowza.
My wishes are with the victim and the officer who was fired upon.
Sounds like it may have been a plainclothes officer?
WickedWillis
09-08-16, 13:06
Sounds like escalated High School drama. Wait for the Liberal spin, because it's a coming.
Averageman
09-08-16, 13:09
Sounds like escalated High School drama. Wait for the Liberal spin, because it's a coming.
I tried to get some facts on this. All of the facts are buried in the anti-gun drama that passes as "News".
I'm pretty sure Hillary can fix this for us though.
Looks like some real Heathers style BS.
It will get blamed on everybody but the stupid hormonal ternybopper who thought High School really matters and was worth committing murder over.
I honestly don't remember anyone I went to school with. That's how 'important' High School is.
titsonritz
09-08-16, 13:23
A police officer also was accidentally shot by a marshal as officers responded to the first shooting, Dodson said.
WTF, not enough carnage?
WTF, not enough carnage?
Blue on Blue. Chaotic environment. Tunnel vision. Probably no real, coordinated plan or SOP.
"It couldn't happen here" mentality.
Stil tragic.
I call BS.
Schools are gun free zones.
I call BS.
Schools are gun free zones.
Truth, false flag and all that other nonsense...
Thoughts and prayers with the victims.
Blue on Blue. Chaotic environment. Tunnel vision. Probably no real, coordinated plan or SOP.
"It couldn't happen here" mentality.
Stil tragic.
You may be right on the mentality. Alpine is a small town. Its mostly a gateway to a national park and home to a college.
SilverBullet432
09-08-16, 14:51
Good info is still scarce. I'll post it once real solid facts come out. So far it does sound like HS BS to me, but you know the news likes to juice it all up, seriously, CNN had more "info" on their site before our local news even did!!
SilverBullet432
09-08-16, 14:54
Latest news posted in OP.
dwhitehorne
09-08-16, 15:59
Thanks for the updated link. This wording makes me think negligant discharge. I wonder what the real story is. It always amazes me how basic skills plummet once you get off the square range. David
"A federal officer was injured when another officer's gun discharged and has been taken to the hospital."
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-08-16, 16:13
A female shooter, that's a new one it seems.
I was just going to post the other day that we haven't had a high profile shooting in awhile. This will be off the radar soon since it doesn't fit the narrative.
Female shooter walks into band hall and shoots another student in the back. Police respond and she takes her life in the restroom. Also, one cop shot another cop who was responding to the situation.....
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/08/us/texas-high-school-shooting/index.html
Thoughts?
ETA: More local link: http://www.newswest9.com/story/33048409/sheriff-shooter-died-of-self-inflicted-gunshot-wound-at-alpine-high?sf35409102=1
LATEST NEWS: http://www.newswest9.com/story/33048409/sheriff-shooter-died-of-self-inflicted-gunshot-wound-at-alpine-high?sf35409102=1
When the pucker factor gets high enough, cops even shoot other cops. This is especially true of plainclothes officers responding to something like this. It's why belt badges have almost been completely abandoned in favor of neck hangers and it still happens.
Something to think about if you happen to be a CCW and just happen to be near a school when a shooting happens. I'm also waiting for the first time an "armed teacher" gets nailed by first responders.
Probably few things scarier than walking into what might be the next Columbine / Sandy Hook. These kinds of shooters would love to add a few cops to the body count before they depart this world, but at the same time you know people might be getting slaughtered right now as you decide what you should do. God help you if you mistake a regular kid for the shooter, god help you if you mistake the shooter for a regular kid.
Leaveammoforme
09-08-16, 16:53
I wouldn't consider this high profile or an active shooter.
Did the suspect spray a hallway during class change or single out one individual? I don't know, I wasn't there. Sounds like an attempted murder/suicide to me probably seeded by some idiotic "muh feelz".
I honestly think that officials are only making stupid statements because this happened in Mysafetown, USA.
Same situation in Chicago would earn an official statement of a shoulder shrug.
When the pucker factor gets high enough, cops even shoot other cops. This is especially true of plainclothes officers responding to something like this. It's why belt badges have almost been completely abandoned in favor of neck hangers and it still happens.
Something to think about if you happen to be a CCW and just happen to be near a school when a shooting happens. I'm also waiting for the first time an "armed teacher" gets nailed by first responders.
Probably few things scarier than walking into what might be the next Columbine / Sandy Hook. These kinds of shooters would love to add a few cops to the body count before they depart this world, but at the same time you know people might be getting slaughtered right now as you decide what you should do. God help you if you mistake a regular kid for the shooter, god help you if you mistake the shooter for a regular kid.
Here are my thoughts on that:
-Any person in plainclothes intervening should, as a policy, radio/phone in their description, location, and status. This should be practiced. If one is arriving on scene before they do anything, they should don a windbreaker peculiar to that agency. Not some cheap thing on Gall's. Something non-commercial/non-replicable
-In-Service should include Friend/Foe/Non-Combatant ID on active shoots. Refined Dispatch relay should be practiced, cleared channels.
-Most schools are relatively straightforward, but range in age from made in the 40s to made in the 90s/00s. Depts should be making use of Summer/Winter breaks to get officers familiarized with the schools in their area. Especially in small areas. Officers should be aware of choke points and "last stand" areas.
-Armed Teachers should have a form of instant ID distinguishable from 100 yds. Something loud and glaring not unlike a PT belt. But peculiar to that area. A challenge/pass system should be implemented that changes and where students are not privy to.
Obviously all of this will be happening at a million miles an hour which is why training is so vital. The days of sitting up, sleeping through powerpoint, minimum qual, minimum in service hours should be long over by now.
Because while this might be HS drama, we are LONG overdue for a Beslan. We really are not ready.
SilverBullet432
09-08-16, 17:04
Thanks for the updated link. This wording makes me think negligant discharge. I wonder what the real story is. It always amazes me how basic skills plummet once you get off the square range. David
"A federal officer was injured when another officer's gun discharged and has been taken to the hospital."
14 year old female shooter.
LEO is expected to be okay.
Victim is expected to be okay.
Victim was discharged from hospital already.
LEO was brought here to Odessa and is stable.
Also. Shooter and family was/are new to the area. Having only lived there 6 months.
titsonritz
09-08-16, 17:52
Asshole calling in bomb threats, chew up resources. What a cluster****.
Gun free zones stop shootings.
All school shooters are white males.
You can only trust LE with guns.
School shooters always use assault rifles.
Oh wait. They don't. They aren't. LE are people, as prone to make mistakes as anyone. And it was a pistol.
Why is no one talking about how a 14yo was able to take a SA pistol (or any firearm) to school?
Seriously, what about criminal charges against whoever left it available?
SeriousStudent
09-08-16, 19:02
Holy cow, I grew up in Alpine and went to school there. :(
Time to make some phone calls.
Here are my thoughts on that:
-Any person in plainclothes intervening should, as a policy, radio/phone in their description, location, and status. This should be practiced. If one is arriving on scene before they do anything, they should don a windbreaker peculiar to that agency. Not some cheap thing on Gall's. Something non-commercial/non-replicable
-In-Service should include Friend/Foe/Non-Combatant ID on active shoots. Refined Dispatch relay should be practiced, cleared channels.
-Most schools are relatively straightforward, but range in age from made in the 40s to made in the 90s/00s. Depts should be making use of Summer/Winter breaks to get officers familiarized with the schools in their area. Especially in small areas. Officers should be aware of choke points and "last stand" areas.
-Armed Teachers should have a form of instant ID distinguishable from 100 yds. Something loud and glaring not unlike a PT belt. But peculiar to that area. A challenge/pass system should be implemented that changes and where students are not privy to.
Obviously all of this will be happening at a million miles an hour which is why training is so vital. The days of sitting up, sleeping through powerpoint, minimum qual, minimum in service hours should be long over by now.
Because while this might be HS drama, we are LONG overdue for a Beslan. We really are not ready.
Most of that already happens. But who is going to carry a windbreaker everywhere? Not feasible at all. I have all that stuff and more in my work car, but what if you're at a location and something happens but you aren't near your vehicle? Or you ride with someone else? We've had more agencies pushing out the Police / Sheriff sash that helps but most folks won't wear it on their belt. Hanging a badge on a chain or on your belt makes no difference IME. It's still only viable to a limited angle.
Bottom line is that plain clothes LE will always be at higher risk of friendly fire. We know that going into it. We try to mitigate as much as we can but it will never be where we want it to be. A better idea IMO is to wear an undershirt (every day, on and off duty) that has POLICE on each sleeve, the front, and back in bright letters. If you have to respond and your car is not reachable or you're off duty... Ditch your concealing garment and go get some.
From CNN:
In the confusion that followed, numerous law enforcement officers rushed to the scene and a US marshal accidentally shot a Homeland Security agent, Brewster County Sheriff Ronny Dodson said.
Dodson said the agent was in stable condition;
No word yet if the Agent shot was with ICE or USBP or if the Agent and the Deputy Marshal were on or off duty.
AFAIK Alpine does not participate in in the Texas School Marshal program (Armed School Employees). Under the Texas program the armed employees are normally not teachers. they are supposed to be employee who don't normally have direct contact with students like administrators.
Most of that already happens. But who is going to carry a windbreaker everywhere? Not feasible at all. I have all that stuff and more in my work car, but what if you're at a location and something happens but you aren't near your vehicle? Or you ride with someone else? We've had more agencies pushing out the Police / Sheriff sash that helps but most folks won't wear it on their belt. Hanging a badge on a chain or on your belt makes no difference IME. It's still only viable to a limited angle.
Bottom line is that plain clothes LE will always be at higher risk of friendly fire. We know that going into it. We try to mitigate as much as we can but it will never be where we want it to be. A better idea IMO is to wear an undershirt (every day, on and off duty) that has POLICE on each sleeve, the front, and back in bright letters. If you have to respond and your car is not reachable or you're off duty... Ditch your concealing garment and go get some.
The undershirt is actually a good idea.
But I'm saying that a windbreaker isn't bad. Easily stowable in a trunk next to the rifle you should be taking with you. I won't lie. I have done very minimal plainclothes. I preferred uniform patrol as it is more straightforward. Plus in the Southeast a lot of "plainclothes" is a polo and 5.11s/khaki like Technicians/Crime Scene. Detectives yeah get around like computer salesman. I'd much prefer the Miami Vice necklace over a badge on belt Especially if I am managing my workspace. But really I DO like the undershirt idea. POLICE on both sleeves badge on chest and POLICE on the back of a white T. With a collar shirt, most people out and about wouldn't notice. If you aren't wearing armor anyway then at least it would mitigate blue on blue.
Yes a lot of this is covered but in a pretty cursory fashion. A lot of folks are kind of ho-hum. A lot of money gets pissed away on everything but good equipment and much needed training. Most guys just don't get the time in. I was very, very fortunate but 25 hrs a year isn't really getting people ready.
AS applies to a lot of other stuff like malls, hospitals, etc. The 60% deal. A lot of universal concepts.
I just shudder at Friendly Fire. No problems greasing a shitstick. None.
But if I wasted a Friendly, I just don't think I could live with it.
JMO
SilverBullet432
09-08-16, 22:06
Holy cow, I grew up in Alpine and went to school there. :(
Time to make some phone calls.
Hope all of your friends and family are well. More news coming on now I'll post an update soon.
SilverBullet432
09-08-16, 22:10
Local news just stated that it was a female agent that was shot. She is recovering. I can't confirm but since they did say she is DHS, she is probably a CBP agent. Border patrol checkpoints nearby.
dwhitehorne
09-09-16, 03:30
A better idea IMO is to wear an undershirt (every day, on and off duty) that has POLICE on each sleeve, the front, and back in bright letters. If you have to respond and your car is not reachable or you're off duty... Ditch your concealing garment and go get some.
Been carrying a police glow vest in mine and my wife's car for 20 years. Put it on a couple of time. You look like a dork but everybody knew who I was. David
Moose-Knuckle
09-09-16, 03:50
We're 59 days until election day . . . expect more "mass shootings" over the next two months.
That is all . . .
Local news just stated that it was a female agent that was shot. She is recovering. I can't confirm but since they did say she is DHS, she is probably a CBP agent. Border patrol checkpoints nearby.
Interesting, the active shooter was a female so that could have played a part in the blue on blue. I'm curious to know if it was a mistaken identity shooting or a negligent discharge.
Re: CBP / USBP - CBP Officers wear blue uniforms and work at air, sea and land ports of entry. USBP Agents wear green uniforms and patrol the border and areas within 125 miles of the border such as interior checkpoints. The USBP is part of CBP the same way the USMC is part of the US Navy - begrudgingly.
Alpine has both USBP and ICE / HSI offices. The closest POE is Presidio which is. A few hours away.
SilverBullet432
09-09-16, 06:24
Interesting, the active shooter was a female so that could have played a part in the blue on blue. I'm curious to know if it was a mistaken identity shooting or a negligent discharge.
Re: CBP / USBP - CBP Officers wear blue uniforms and work at air, sea and land ports of entry. USBP Agents wear green uniforms and patrol the border and areas within 125 miles of the border such as interior checkpoints. The USBP is part of CBP the same way the USMC is part of the US Navy - begrudgingly.
Alpine has both USBP and ICE / HSI offices. The closest POE is Presidio which is. A few hours away.
86 miles to be exact. (Through Marfa, not Terlingua) been through there hundreds of times.
Averageman
09-09-16, 06:39
It's beautiful out there, just stunning.
I have often thought that might be a nice place to retire to.
It's a shame and we will likely never know.
SilverBullet432
09-09-16, 19:18
***Update***
Bullying appears to be at the center of it all.
http://www.cbs7.com/content/news/Friends-say-bullying-was-at-the-root-of-Alpine-shooting-392946431.html
It's beautiful out there, just stunning.
I have often thought that might be a nice place to retire to.
It's a shame and we will likely never know.
My thoughts as well. That's the kind of town I'd love to just sell it all and operate some small, local gun shop and live quietly.
SeriousStudent
09-09-16, 20:30
It's beautiful out there, just stunning.
I have often thought that might be a nice place to retire to.
It's a shame and we will likely never know.
I grew up out there, and miss it terribly.
I lived in Alpine, and also in Lajitas back when it had a population of 64 people.
Sitting on your porch at night, and gazing upwards at the full wondrous power of the Milky Way.
It's not a very forgiving place. But if you have the desire and the skill, it gives you a confidence that many other places cannot.
A lot of what I am now, was forged in that desert a half-century ago.
I miss it terribly.
SeriousStudent
09-09-16, 20:31
Hope all of your friends and family are well. More news coming on now I'll post an update soon.
Thank you. Everyone is well, and appreciated the contact.
Thank you for the updates.
RioGrandeGreen
09-09-16, 23:45
I grew up out there, and miss it terribly.
I lived in Alpine, and also in Lajitas back when it had a population of 64 people.
Sitting on your porch at night, and gazing upwards at the full wondrous power of the Milky Way.
It's not a very forgiving place. But if you have the desire and the skill, it gives you a confidence that many other places cannot.
A lot of what I am now, was forged in that desert a half-century ago.
I miss it terribly.
That sums it up nicely sir,
I was born in Alpine too.
RGGreen
***Update***
Bullying appears to be at the center of it all.
http://www.cbs7.com/content/news/Friends-say-bullying-was-at-the-root-of-Alpine-shooting-392946431.html
My "inner A-hole" just uses this as another example of how we need to raise tougher kids that have the mental fortitude to cope with the fact that people in the world aren't nice...
I once had a very young employee (paid intern hired at 18 while in college, NEVER AGAIN) notify my manager that I "was bullying him" because I had a quite direct conversation about his job being directly linked to his ability to show up on time, every time, without question. His feelings were hurt. She came by the office, sat us both down, and asked him what the hell his problem was? Before he could respond the next question was if he valued his job and the experience he was gaining? She told him that she didn't give a damn about his feelings. Did it all right in front of me... I was shocked at how vicious her conversation was. Kid looked like it was the first time in his life that someone told him his sh!t did in fact stink. He paused, said he'd be better about being prompt, and was never late again. I got to promote him after he was brought on full time, and he still comes to me for career advice even though I have since moved companies. Proud of what the guy has done once he got his head on right.
I know that people will say that things are different now, Facebook/Twitter this, psychology that (I have a degree in the subject), and so on and so forth. Society has changed and allows people to raise little a-holes and little cowards, and good people end up shot or killed as a result of people lacking either the family support or even just basic coping skills. SMH
1+ to stormin.
Every child is bullied to some degree. I sure a shit was as a child. Overweight, immigrant blah blah blah. Not sure why our generation was able to simply deal with it. Either by knocking the bully's block off or moving on. Why are today's kids so effing weak. Wonder if never say no, everyone gets a trophy, snitch to an adult about everything has anything to do with it. Being sarcastic there. Funny how from early on we (society) tells kids to be dependent on some government entity; yet that entity refuses to do anything to help. You think that may build some serious frustration into these kids? As for the whole BookFace, Twatter and what ever social media thing that is bothering them; why do children have access to those things to begin with?
Averageman
09-10-16, 10:26
I've had the bullying discussion when my Son was in Middle School.
We sat in the Principals office and waited to see the "Queen Mother". When we finally got an audience that I understood the full ramifications of this;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis
I also explained that my Son is going to Kick some Ass the next time another bully puts a hand on him. If She had the responsibility to keep him safe and wouldn't/couldn't we would take matters in our own hands. I also explained to her that the Attorney that got me custody of my Son in my divorce would be the same one taking her to court.
She tried to explain to me that "There is never an excuse for violence".
I sent my Son out of the room at that point and explained to her why I wore the Uniform I was standing in front of her in and how, Yes, Sometimes Violence is the Only F'ing thing People Understand.
Yes my Son got in to fights and No She wouldn't punish him.
The undershirt is actually a good idea.
But I'm saying that a windbreaker isn't bad. Easily stowable in a trunk next to the rifle you should be taking with you. I won't lie. I have done very minimal plainclothes. I preferred uniform patrol as it is more straightforward. Plus in the Southeast a lot of "plainclothes" is a polo and 5.11s/khaki like Technicians/Crime Scene. Detectives yeah get around like computer salesman. I'd much prefer the Miami Vice necklace over a badge on belt Especially if I am managing my workspace. But really I DO like the undershirt idea. POLICE on both sleeves badge on chest and POLICE on the back of a white T. With a collar shirt, most people out and about wouldn't notice. If you aren't wearing armor anyway then at least it would mitigate blue on blue.
Yes a lot of this is covered but in a pretty cursory fashion. A lot of folks are kind of ho-hum. A lot of money gets pissed away on everything but good equipment and much needed training. Most guys just don't get the time in. I was very, very fortunate but 25 hrs a year isn't really getting people ready.
AS applies to a lot of other stuff like malls, hospitals, etc. The 60% deal. A lot of universal concepts.
I just shudder at Friendly Fire. No problems greasing a shitstick. None.
But if I wasted a Friendly, I just don't think I could live with it.
JMO
I hear you about blue on blue. I'm always in plain clothes so it's on my mind frequently.
Been carrying a police glow vest in mine and my wife's car for 20 years. Put it on a couple of time. You look like a dork but everybody knew who I was. David
Agreed. And if I'm near either my POV or my work car I have some really good options. My concern is the hundreds of scenarios where I wouldn't be able get to the car. The reflective vest is worth it's weight in gold at night on the side of the road helping someone who is stranded, etc.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.