View Full Version : ATF "gun-owner" snitch app
Big brother is watching. I never thought I would see this day, but FFS, we are turning into another McCarthy witch hunt.
From an ATF press release:
The fight to protect our communities is not just up to law enforcement; it’s a partnership between your community and law enforcement. We look to you who live in these communities we protect to provide us with information about gun violence.
To make our communities safer, ATF is launching a new way to collect your tips involving firearms or to provide leads to help us prevent crimes from happening. Using your phone, tablet or computer, you will be able to tell us instantly and anonymously about crimes that may be happening in your communities that involve firearms, explosives, violent crime, or arson.
ATF values your privacy and is offering this service through reportit (link is external)®, a mobile app that allows you to remain anonymous. With reportit® concerned citizens can report suspicious or unusual activities in real time while having the assurance that your identity will remain anonymous and confidential. reportit® makes it easy to create and submit a tip, and attach a photo or video, with confidence that the information is forwarded to us real time. With the time and location of the incident, we can better respond and provide the necessary resources quickly and efficiently. You will have the option to provide your personal information, but this will not be required to submit your tip. You can visit the reportit (link is external)® website for more infomation on their service.
https://personalliberty.com/atf-pushing-government-app-report-suspect-gun-owners/
anyone remember Americas Most Wanted with John Walsh? After each episode, they would receive 30,000 tips from 200 cities in 30 different states. Later in life, John said he purposely gave false information as "counter intelligence" so it would be easier to sift through the number of tips. Like for instance, he would say a wanted felon had a scar on his right eye, so the people that called in said they saw a man with a scar on his right eye, they would already know it was a bad tip, the callers phone number was blocked from calling again. If the ATF is creating an app that allows people to tip off the federal government about "possible" violence that may or may not involve a gun, you better know that those apps keep track of your location, ip address, carrier, and even talk to other apps from other phones. Its no mystery that Facebook suggest a radom person to be friends with that just so happened to be at the same place as you were an hour ago. We live in a time were phones talk to each other without us knowing and these apps run in the background and collect all kinds of data. If one person wants to tip off the ATF, that's fine, but there information is kept on file and will be used against them.
I vote for sending them on wild goose chases.
Moose-Knuckle
09-09-16, 03:32
Lets all get the app and snitch on one family that goes by the name Clinton for decades of Federal crimes . . .
And that's one more reason I don't want my name turned in to the ATF for making a multiple handgun purchase, although it doesn't seem to bother dealers to do this. Who wants to be flagged? Not I.
Lets all get the app and snitch on one family that goes by the name Clinton for decades of Federal crimes . . .
Or snitch on ATF agents. Make then chase their own tail.
Averageman
09-09-16, 06:18
What happens once "Mrs Kravitz" next door turns you in and the ATF shows up?
Do you get to face your accuser, does an anonymous tip give them enough to come in your door, what if you're just not "Mrs Karvitz" favorite neighbor?
I wonder if they will show up in places in Chicago where there are an awful lot of people shooting each other or will they use the easy button and stay harassing people out in "Cornfield County?"
I just knew encouraging snitches was next.
Outlander Systems
09-09-16, 07:27
At least we still have the Constitution.
:p
"The Confrontation evidence of the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "in all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right…to be confronted with the witnesses against him." Generally, the right is to have a face-to-face confrontation with witnesses who are offering testimonial evidence against the accused in the form of cross-examination during a trial. The Fourteenth Amendment makes the right to confrontation applicable to the states and not just the federal government.[1] The right only applies to criminal prosecutions, not civil cases or other proceedings"
What happens once "Mrs Kravitz" next door turns you in and the ATF shows up?
Do you get to face your accuser, does an anonymous tip give them enough to come in your door, what if you're just not "Mrs Karvitz" favorite neighbor?
I wonder if they will show up in places in Chicago where there are an awful lot of people shooting each other or will they use the easy button and stay harassing people out in "Cornfield County?"
I just knew encouraging snitches was next.
Maybe it's old Soviet paranoia that my dad instilled in me but there are certain things I don't talk about with neighbors/people I don't know. Guns is one of those things. Partially because I really just don't care but guns have never been a topic. And now that I think about it there was never a conversation which would have led to a topic on guns. "Hey man nice new car you got there...by the way what are your thoughts on the new FBI Glocks?"
Also have no Facebook or Twitter or Instagram. Not for any rear reason except that i don't need it. All my long distance friends and family i text with and share photos that way. All my local friends and family I either call or text.
In my neighborhood there is one kid who knows I have guns, and I know he's has them too, and that because he used to work at the LGS I frequent. Another guy living way up the street is a cop so I'm positive he owns a gun!
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What happens once "Mrs Kravitz" next door turns you in and the ATF shows up?
Do you get to face your accuser, does an anonymous tip give them enough to come in your door, what if you're just not "Mrs Karvitz" favorite neighbor?
I wonder if they will show up in places in Chicago where there are an awful lot of people shooting each other or will they use the easy button and stay harassing people out in "Cornfield County?"
I just knew encouraging snitches was next.
Remember the "parallel construction" thing recommended for DA's to use when evidence they received from the NSA snooping was going to be used to prosecute a case? There's your answer.........
Averageman
09-09-16, 07:54
"Parallel Construction" should be considered "Forbidden Fruit" in these cases. I have no doubt it won't be, but I do believe it should, just like I believe no ATF Agent is going in to area's of high crime to confront some dope slinging gang members to take their guns away.
I'm just about willing to bet the score in Chicago is Gang Members 500 and ATF 0 for the year.
"Parallel Construction" should be considered "Forbidden Fruit" in these cases. I have no doubt it won't be, but I do believe it should, just like I believe no ATF Agent is going in to area's of high crime to confront some dope slinging gang members to take their guns away.
I'm just about willing to bet the score in Chicago is Gang Members 500 and ATF 0 for the year.
No doubt, agree 100%. I'd go as far as charging a DA with malfeasance (or whatever) and having him disbarred for trying to use "Forbidden Fruit" evidence. Yeah, it's a pipe dream I know.
Averageman
09-09-16, 08:03
"Snitching" is a sure fire way to make the eventual confiscation work.
I'm sure if they build up enough cases this way we can see this move forward in to other parts of our lives. I have no doubt that young impressionable children will be the first indoctrinated and it will be done in schools and on our dime.
And that's one more reason I don't want my name turned in to the ATF for making a multiple handgun purchase, although it doesn't seem to bother dealers to do this. Who wants to be flagged? Not I.
I assume I'm flagged already.
Veteran? Check.
NFA? Check.
Multiple gun purchases per year for years? Check.
Has made many anti-government posts, emails, text messages, phone calls? Check.
If it goes out via some sort of electronic medium big brother is watching. I'm sure NSA has more data on people than most would think.
A case still has to be built on more than just snitching, at least in theory. Recall that SCOTUS ruled a few years back that even evidence obtained by a cop without probable cause is admissable if it was done "in good faith". The 4th Amendment, like the rest of the Constitution, is discarded when inconvenient.
Outlander Systems
09-09-16, 08:14
@Falar:
If it goes out via some sort of electronic medium big brother is watching. I'm sure NSA has more data on people than most would think.
We have a 4th Amendment to prevent that kind of thing. :haha:
Isn't any gun enthusiast online forum a self-snitch vehicle when you post: "Look at my latest LGS purchase", "Here's my safe and what's inside", "My latest build", etc.? And self-snitching many times includes pictures. If the government is going to implement registration and possible buybacks, confiscation, would they not have teams of researchers and investigators cruising gun forums, using technology to track the locations of visitors/members and take note of the what they post about? I would guess this already happens and anti-government or terrorist key words are being analyzed. Probably not a good thing to opine about the early demise of political figures online.
This ATF app seems like a tool to harass the public on a small scale, but not for the big picture. You'll get lots of: "I saw someone shooting an assault weapon in the woods" reports but how far would that go?
Outlander Systems
09-09-16, 09:04
OH58D:
I look at the app the same way I look at the recent GQ Video:
A means to stay relevant; a subtle petition for funding.
I also see a paranoid, but well-intentioned neighbor using the app to report a bunch of kids with "machine guns (airsoft rifles)" and a good, old-fashioned "SWATing" to occur, leading to wrongful death lawsuits, and lots of bad publicity.
The mop flops, the cookie crumbles, and the sun rises and sets.
All of it is merely a symptom of the abject cultural insanity of banning "the things."
The amount of stupid an inanimate object can milk out of people is pretty funny. Sometimes, you just gotta laugh at it all.
I vote for sending them on wild goose chases.
Lol, been watching Narcos. These scene where they had a credible tip and raided George Bush comes to mind. Someone COULD make a ton of $ making/selling life size Eric Holder cardboard posters for this purpose.
Averageman
09-09-16, 11:22
I hear the Obama's will be moving to a new house soon.
ramairthree
09-09-16, 11:41
I remember in fire starter where the evil Feds showed up to get Drew Barrymore at this grumpy old vets farm.
They started talking about not needing warrants, etc.
He said something like,
Unless I woke up in the USSR this morning you do.
I long ago started feeling like I was waking up in the USSR.
https://andrikyrychok.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/poster-12.jpg
The_War_Wagon
09-09-16, 13:21
Big brother is watching. I never thought I would see this day, but FFS, we are turning into another McCarthy witch hunt.
McCarthy hunted Communists in America. NOW the Communists are hunting the Americans in America. :(
Does anyone have a list of agents involved in "Fast and Furious?"
I know Obama and Holder and plan to report them, but I'd like to get the entire criminal enterprise reported to the proper authorities.
just a scout
09-09-16, 13:29
Snitches get stitches. Just sayin.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Does anyone have a list of agents involved in "Fast and Furious?"
I know Obama and Holder and plan to report them, but I'd like to get the entire criminal enterprise reported to the proper authorities.
The Sipsey Street Irregulars probably do.
Snitches get ditches. Just sayin.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
FTFY
But seriously, why doesn't ICE have an app for suspected illegals. Lots of illegals doing illegal things like: thugging, raping, murdering, spreading disease.
An iLaMigra App could do a lot of good. Especially in the Southwest.
FTFY
But seriously, why doesn't ICE have an app for suspected illegals. Lots of illegals doing illegal things like: thugging, raping, murdering, spreading disease.
An iLaMigra App could do a lot of good. Especially in the Southwest.
It would be condemned as "racist" and "hate software".
It would be condemned as "racist" and "hate software".
But but its for the children. Think of the children!
Anyways....as usual hardcore gangster rap gets it right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVqVAKIHR5k
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-09-16, 13:52
Uhm, how about following up on 4473s filled out by felons looking for guns? Are they seriously saying that they don't have enough leads? Seems more a way to get PC from 'anonymous' tips about people they are interested in.
Averageman
09-09-16, 14:08
Uhm, how about following up on 4473s filled out by felons looking for guns? Are they seriously saying that they don't have enough leads? Seems more a way to get PC from 'anonymous' tips about people they are interested in.
And at that point the whole point they were trying to make is lost isn't it?
I will take the whole issue seriously when they suit up and go look at where the criminal activity is taking place. When I see the ATF and ICE going through Chicago in some serious round of up some illegal guns, I will take them seriously. They don't want the heavy lifting, someone could get hurt.
But, if you can point out some 17 year old kid in Corn Field County who cut two feet off of a shotgun barrel to go shoot frogs down at the creek with, they will be there with a helicopter and a QRF, lickty split. Please report some of that 'cause none of our Agents are going to get hurt.
They for the most part seem to want to Cherry Pick their criminals.
And that point the whole point they were trying to make is lost isn't it?
I will take the whole issue seriously when they suit up and go look at where the criminal activity is taking place. When I see the ATF and ICE going through Chicago in some serious round up some illegal guns, I will take them seriously. They don't want the heavy lifting, someone could get hurt.
But, if you can point out some 17 year old kid in Corn Field County who cut two feet off of a shotgun barrel to go shoot frogs down at the creek with, they will be there with a helicopter and a QRF, lickty split. Please report some of that 'cause none of our Agents are going to get hurt.
They for the most part seem to want to Cherry Pick their criminals.
This.
Everybody wanna be a badass but nobody wanna do badass shit.
"Snitching" is a sure fire way to make the eventual confiscation work.
I'm sure if they build up enough cases this way we can see this move forward in to other parts of our lives. I have no doubt that young impressionable children will be the first indoctrinated and it will be done in schools and on our dime.
I have a daughter in school. I made it very clear to her that she never talks about the guns in our house with anyone. She also knows that if she's ever asked if her parents own guns she's to simply say, no. She gets it and never discusses this topic with anyone outside of us or friends of mine who I shoot with.
Averageman
09-09-16, 14:28
I have a daughter in school. I made it very clear to her that she never talks about the guns in our house with anyone. She also knows that if she's ever asked if her parents own guns she's to simply say, no. She gets it and never discusses this topic with anyone outside of us or friends of mine who I shoot with.
Smart Man.
I will suggest that it might get a little harder as She gets a little older, not with guns, but likely every other issue. I wish you nothing but good luck and smooth sailing.
My 21 year old Son has a head like an anvil, he's just beginning to see that he's not as smart as he thought he was when he turned 16.
This.
Everybody wanna be a badass but nobody wanna do badass shit.
There was time when tehy wanted very much to "get their raid on". Then they got their ass handed to them in Waco.
Low hanging fruit is much less risky.
I'm sure they have an internal committee working on a new crest. I have a suggestion for them.
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Mb352627c559fda396800f8be081d18deo0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300
Flankenstein
09-09-16, 14:34
Smart Man.
I will suggest that it might get a little harder as She gets a little older, not with guns, but likely every other issue. I wish you nothing but good luck and smooth sailing.
My 21 year old Son has a head like an anvil, he's just beginning to see that he's not as smart as he thought he was when he turned 16.
How is hiding gun ownership smart? I think it's cowardly. There is a big difference between running around with molon labe bumper sticker, hat, and shirt and simply saying yes, I own guns, **** you.
FTFY
But seriously, why doesn't ICE have an app for suspected illegals. Lots of illegals doing illegal things like: thugging, raping, murdering, spreading disease.
An iLaMigra App could do a lot of good. Especially in the Southwest.
It would have to be yoLamigra , the app name.....lol......that's funny. Or iFederali.....lol...
How is hiding gun ownership smart? I think it's cowardly. There is a big difference between running around with molon labe bumper sticker, hat, and shirt and simply saying yes, I own guns, **** you.
It's all a matter of where you want to draw the line and a highly personal choice. I wouldn't call it cowardly in the slightest though. It's good PERSEC, which is never a bad thing. You want any potential adversary to first learn you're a gun owner, the second they cross the invisible threat line and they're staring at your muzzle. :)
A while back I was reading an article or a book--can't remember which; nor can I find it at the moment--that stated that the law "ought to be friendly". On first reading it sounded weird, but it went on to say that the law should be founded on common sense (natural law?) and focus on things that the community at large really cared about. To the extent that it becomes a nag, an annoyance, politically weaponized or just plain insulting--it's no longer "friendly". It sort of made me think about how long it's been since it was "friendly" in any meaningful way. In my mind, a lot of things just seemed to change and go wrong when Kennedy was shot--so maybe that fits in there someplace too. It sort of fits, I guess.
As to immigration and ICE, the pervasive refusal of management and supervision to do its job, bears a real resemblance to the French Vichy regime in WWII. Tell us what you want, and we'll do it. I suspect if it were assigned the task of rounding up evil-looking guns it would get right on it.
Enough of this. It's nice out and the ATV awaits.
Leaveammoforme
09-09-16, 15:30
A case still has to be built on more than just snitching, at least in theory. Recall that SCOTUS ruled a few years back that even evidence obtained by a cop without probable cause is admissable if it was done "in good faith". The 4th Amendment, like the rest of the Constitution, is discarded when inconvenient.
I see phone call from concerned citizen #1 simply getting the person they report a file. Additional reports of the same person will probably draw additional attention.
Then the ATF will become the witness as they follow you ,and yours, around physically and electronically. I'm sure that if the situation is juicy enough, the FBI will step in and attempt to sell a Stinger or two.
I see this as an attempt to curtail non-licensed "Kitchen Table" dealers. Someone will probably get extra attention if unlucky enough to be reported for leaving the house with gun cases and then reported by someone online for selling uppers. All perfectly legal but they're "moving guns".
I wonder what will happen when not enough reports are coming in. Then ATF starts following, out of pure boredom, "1 report" folks around.
How is hiding gun ownership smart? I think it's cowardly. There is a big difference between running around with molon labe bumper sticker, hat, and shirt and simply saying yes, I own guns, **** you.
I'm not hiding owning guns. I'm simply instructing my kids not to go around blindly letting everyone know we own guns. Teaching discretion isn't cowardly. I don't think my kid's teacher needs to know if I own guns or not. Just like I also don't think my doctor needs to know and yes the doctor we bring our kids to has asked if there are any guns in our home. Take a guess at the answer I gave him ...
I don't shy away from talking about guns and gun related issues with friends, co-workers, or anyone who legitimately is interested in firearms. However, as I've already stated, I won't openly discuss them with certain people.
Averageman
09-09-16, 17:21
How is hiding gun ownership smart? I think it's cowardly. There is a big difference between running around with molon labe bumper sticker, hat, and shirt and simply saying yes, I own guns, **** you.
It's the difference between hiding and being prudent.
I didn't want my kid to have company over while I wasn't home. It's not that I was most worried about the kids ratting me out to the ATF, but rather, ratting me out to their Meth Head Cousin about my Safe or the guns my kid told them I had.
I was a single Dad, my kid was latch key until I got home, sometimes while serving as a Platoon Sergeant my Kid might have been there for 3 hours or more by himself until I got home. The idea that he might be home alone when some nefarious meth head, trailer park living, cracker with "born to lose" tattooed on his forehead, had kicked the door in while I was at work, was more than I wanted to deal with.
OPSEC is never a bad idea.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-09-16, 18:09
This.
Everybody wanna be a badass but nobody wanna do badass shit.
Everyone wants to play gun grabbing Nazi, but everyone wants to sit in the staff car.
I wrote a letter to my rep about this BS.
ETA: email of course
SomeOtherGuy
09-09-16, 18:43
Everyone wants to play gun grabbing Nazi, but everyone wants to sit in the staff car.
Indeed. I say anyone who votes for gun-grabbing, whether they are a politician or beta-sheep, should be required to be #1 through the door on twenty raids. Unarmed, since they don't believe in guns.
Moose-Knuckle
09-10-16, 03:29
If you want to see where we are going watch a film called Child 44 about the paranoia during Stalin's reign and another film entitled The Way Back based upon a true story of a group that escaped a Siberian Gulag and walked 4K miles to freedom.
Children unknowingly rat on their own parents when the secret police interviewed them at school without their parents knowledge during the Nazi reign as well as Stalin's, a disgruntled co-worker, a boss that has it out for you, jilted lover, etc. will even fabricate a charge against you. In the above book/film The Way Back a man's wife "confessed" a lie during an integration to save her own ass. They were in love and she had nothing against him but just to save her own ass she lied and he was sent to a Gulag. F'n bitch.
Lets all get the app and snitch on one family that goes by the name Clinton for decades of Federal crimes . . .
Brilliant. Positively brilliant.
Then we can report BATF, DOJ the Federal Government for infringement of our rights!
Just like I also don't think my doctor needs to know and yes the doctor we bring our kids to has asked if there are any guns in our home. Take a guess at the answer I gave him ...
What did you tell him? I don't answer that question. I turn it around and start asking them personal irrelevant questions in return, until they change the subject.
Doc: "Are there any guns in your home?"
Me: "Did you illegally smoke marijuana in college?"
Doc: "What?"
Me: "You heard me…"
Doc: "Ummm… what does that have to do with anything?"
Me: "Right."
Me again, quick like: "Are you married?"
Doc: "Umm… Yes, but I'm not sure…"
Me interrupting: "How many times have you cheated on your wife?"
Doc: "What the…"
Etc…
Another time:
Doc: "Do you own any firearms?"
Me: "Do you own a fire extinguisher?"
Doc: " Wha… No one will die if I have a fire extinguisher…"
Me: "Someone might die if you don't…"
Brilliant. Positively brilliant.
Then we can report BATF, DOJ the Federal Government for infringement of our rights!
This. I say everyone should in fact do this!
What did you tell him? I don't answer that question. I turn it around and start asking them personal irrelevant questions in return, until they change the subject.
I just blankly said nope. But I like your way of handling that situation and if and when they ask that dumb question again, I'm going to use your tactic and begin with the random questions for him.
What did you tell him? I don't answer that question. I turn it around and start asking them personal irrelevant questions in return, until they change the subject.
Doc: "Are there any guns in your home?"
Me: "Did you illegally smoke marijuana in college?"
Doc: "What?"
Me: "You heard me…"
Doc: "Ummm… what does that have to do with anything?"
Me: "Right."
Me again, quick like: "Are you married?"
Doc: "Umm… Yes, but I'm not sure…"
Me interrupting: "How many times have you cheated on your wife?"
Doc: "What the…"
Etc…
Another time:
Doc: "Do you own any firearms?"
Me: "Do you own a fire extinguisher?"
Doc: " Wha… No one will die if I have a fire extinguisher…"
Me: "Someone might die if you don't…"
I choose my docs carefully. This is the exam room...notice the magazine rack.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160910/12746e31aef03ef92b92f1b0700a8a5d.jpg
We exchange vids of our range sessions, and talk shit about his anti-gun, liberal sister, lol...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is what every exam room and lobby look like after I leave. :cool:
I've shot IDPA with my doc's husband. Not an issue there.
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