View Full Version : Gun safe questions
I guess this is the right sub-forum to post this in? Idk.
Anyway, looking on getting a safe. I remember Will Brink's thread a while back, but it was a while back.
What are the current best safes in terms of fire rating, locking mechanism, gauge steel, bolt placement, price, and other factors I haven't thought of but probably should have?
Also, where do you place your safe? Garage seems like an easy answer, but then it's far away if I need it. Where else do people put safes?
Is there any way to camouflage a safe within a house? If I can fit it in the back of a long closet then put some kind of door with a mirror in front of it, how would that work?
Doc Safari
09-12-16, 16:07
I'll just address the concealment part of this. Yes, it is best to conceal it somehow. I used to know a guy who had a "false wall" in his closet that he could remove to expose the safe. I don't remember exactly how he did it but somehow the layout of the room was such that you wouldn't immediately snap to the idea that one end of the closet didn't extend as far back as the other. It was one of those "if you stare at it for a few minutes you might notice, but at just a glance it would never dawn on you" situations.
I also knew a guy who had a small utility room converted to his safe room, then he put a fake shelf display with wine glasses glued to the shelves to conceal the safe room. It seemed to work well. He claimed that you need to be sure to dust the wine glasses occasionally to maintain the illusion that these are wine glasses you use. And heaven forbid you break one: you'll have to pry it off the shelf and replace it with a new wine glass.
There are many ways to conceal safes. Use your imagination.
I don't like placing a safe in the garage. It is only shielded from the evildoers by a flimsy aluminum roll up door. The garage, especially in the lower halves of the states (warmer states), is extremely hot. Temperature can be in the mid 90s. On the other extreme, in the northern states, temperatures could get into the 30s. Even in the south, on a very cold winter day, temperature in the garage are as low as the 40s. Temperature swings as well as humidity will play havoc on the steel and wood, i.e. rust and crack.
I'm sure many will say their favorite place is their basement, if you have a basement. Many of my friends put them there. For those without a basement, I've seen them in closet and various places.
If proximity and accessibility is a concern, consider having a big safe for most of the guns and valuables and a smaller safe or metal cabinet for the first line of defense arsenal.
I'll just address the concealment part of this. Yes, it is best to conceal it somehow. I used to know a guy who had a "false wall" in his closet that he could remove to expose the safe. I don't remember exactly how he did it but somehow the layout of the room was such that you wouldn't immediately snap to the idea that one end of the closet didn't extend as far back as the other. It was one of those "if you stare at it for a few minutes you might notice, but at just a glance it would never dawn on you" situations.
I also knew a guy who had a small utility room converted to his safe room, then he put a fake shelf display with wine glasses glued to the shelves to conceal the safe room. It seemed to work well. He claimed that you need to be sure to dust the wine glasses occasionally to maintain the illusion that these are wine glasses you use. And heaven forbid you break one: you'll have to pry it off the shelf and replace it with a new wine glass.
There are many ways to conceal safes. Use your imagination.
My idea with the mirror was to create an illusion of depth at the back of the closet to fool people. That trick is often used in restaurants to make people feel like the moderately-sized dining room is actually gigantic. But I have no idea mechanically how I'd do it and also not use up the entire closet.
I don't like placing a safe in the garage. It is only shielded from the evildoers by a flimsy aluminum roll up door. The garage, especially in the lower halves of the states (warmer states), is extremely hot. Temperature can be in the mid 90s. On the other extreme, in the northern states, temperatures could get into the 30s. Even in the south, on a very cold winter day, temperature in the garage are as low as the 40s. Temperature swings as well as humidity will play havoc on the steel and wood, i.e. rust and crack.
I'm sure many will say their favorite place is their basement, if you have a basement. Many of my friends put them there. For those without a basement, I've seen them in closet and various places.
If proximity and accessibility is a concern, consider having a big safe for most of the guns and valuables and a smaller safe or metal cabinet for the first line of defense arsenal.
You make a good point about temperature, it got to 114 or so this summer, but it's finally cooling off... it's only like 105 today! I don't have a basement, unfortunately.
My idea with the mirror was to create an illusion of depth at the back of the closet to fool people. That trick is often used in restaurants to make people feel like the moderately-sized dining room is actually gigantic. But I have no idea mechanically how I'd do it and also not use up the entire closet.
You make a good point about temperature, it got to 114 or so this summer, but it's finally cooling off... it's only like 105 today! I don't have a basement, unfortunately.
It will get worse than that from the cars. Let's say the outside temperature where I live is "only" 102. I drive home and park my car in the garage and then come back into the garage an hour later and all of heat from the engine/radiator has now soaked my garage to a a sauna-like 122. I have recently moved and currently have all of my reloading stuff in the garage since it is pretty large (4+ car garage) but its too ****ing hot to work in there even if the outside temp is only 90, there is no way I will put my safe there when I get another AMSEC.
So is Amsec the "best" brand of safe?
Also, a local safe company said they won't drill into and bolt down safes if the foundation is post-tension. I do have a post-tension foundation. Am I basically SOL if someone decides to just carry my safe out? Should I put like 200 lbs of concrete at the bottom of the safe or something?
So is Amsec the "best" brand of safe?
Also, a local safe company said they won't drill into and bolt down safes if the foundation is post-tension. I do have a post-tension foundation. Am I basically SOL if someone decides to just carry my safe out? Should I put like 200 lbs of concrete at the bottom of the safe or something?
In my opinion, yes. In comparison a lot of the other popular brands (even the larger models going into the 5,000 and up range, similar to an amsec) are more like a "safety cabinet" than a safe. Look at how much they weigh than many of the popular brands seen at local sporting stores of the equivalent size. Unless your collection is pretty massive hard to go wrong with a BF6636HD. It was my last safe and the only thing bad about it was paying to have it installed (over 1600lbs if I remember right) because the weight was too much for me and a buddy to handle.
SomeOtherGuy
09-12-16, 16:45
Questions to consider:
1) How big a safe - how many guns, what size guns (ARs with optics take up space), what other stuff?
2) Do you mean a metal cabinet that kinda resembles a safe, like sold by sporting good stores? A fairly rugged metal cabinet with a quality locking mechanism, like the Sturdy Safe line? Or a true safe with a TL-resistant rating, and the price and weight to go with it? What is the level of security you need, and at what cost point would it make more sense to just buy more insurance?
3) How much weight can the floor support? If it's going in a basement, do you mind if it never comes back out of the basement?
4) Do you move often? Is the safe moving with you? Do you mind paying for professional movers and a liftgate truck? I've moved a 1200lb safe twice, and it was a big hassle even with movers and a liftgate, and the first batch of movers came close to giving themselves permanent, crippling injuries due to stupidity (they were from a national, "household name" moving company and were told in advance exactly what was to be moved and how heavy it was, FYI). I expect to move it one more time and then leave it in that house for good. If you move every 2-3 years, you need to get something that is smaller and lighter, or consider the safe-like setups that can be taken apart, like Zannotti offers.
5) If you're looking at spending $2k and up, have you considered a "safe room" as an alternative?
Just like anything else, depending on your goals the cost, size and features vary widely.
wildcard600
09-12-16, 16:45
So is Amsec the "best" brand of safe?
Also, a local safe company said they won't drill into and bolt down safes if the foundation is post-tension. I do have a post-tension foundation. Am I basically SOL if someone decides to just carry my safe out? Should I put like 200 lbs of concrete at the bottom of the safe or something?
If your floor is concrete you could build a small platform bolt it to as many walls as you can and then set the safe on it and lag bolt the safe to that.
This is the first I've heard of somone not drilling into a post tension slab. All three homes I've owned are post-tension slabs and I had safes installed in the last two without issue.
Sam is correct. It's best to keep your safe away from temp & humidity swings. A garage is probably one of the worst places to keep a safe, unless its climate controlled; however, security is still an issue.
Ideally, the space should be cool & dry with the least amount of fluctuation in temp & humidity. If you don't have a basement, a closet that's centrally located within house is the next best option, both from a security & environmental aspect. It's harder to access & temp swings are typically lower.
Keep desiccant inside your safe if you live in a high(er) humidity area. Goldenrods, Peet, and the like, do NOTHING to remove humidity. Anyone that says so knows nothing of what they speak of. (Too dry isn't good either if you have guns with wood furniture.) Without giving away too much OPSEC, my safe is located in a purpose built "vault" within my house and is hidden & climate controlled.
As far as safe technology goes, they haven't changed much, so any fairly recent thread is still applicable.
This is the first I've heard of somone not drilling into a post tension slab. All three homes I've owned are post-tension slabs and I had safes installed in the last two without issue.
What part of the country do they build houses on post tensioned slabs and why? I can't see it being a problem drilling for bolts if you know where the wire is. It also wouldn't be a problem if you didn't know but didn't hit the wire. I can tell you what happens when a plumber drills a misplaced prestressed deck and hits the wire. You don't want to be on the floor below it.
This is the first I've heard of somone not drilling into a post tension slab. All three homes I've owned are post-tension slabs and I had safes installed in the last two without issue.
http://nevadasafes.com/safe-installations-safe-moves/
BOLT-DOWN GUN SAFE INSTALLATION
Bolt-down services are provided by Nevada Safes.
We will not bolt a safe to a post-tension foundation unless the customer has made arrangements that clearly identify where the tension cables are located or has made an alternative arrangement that allows for a bolt-down without compromising the foundation of the customers residence or business.
What part of the country do they build houses on post tensioned slabs and why? I can't see it being a problem drilling for bolts if you know where the wire is. It also wouldn't be a problem if you didn't know but didn't hit the wire. I can tell you what happens when a plumber drills a misplaced prestressed deck and hits the wire. You don't want to be on the floor below it.
Yeah, looks like they will if they know where the wire is.
As I live in Las Vegas... I guess they build houses on post tensioned slabs in Las Vegas. Not sure why, I know nothing about concrete.
SomeOtherGuy
09-12-16, 19:53
As I live in Las Vegas... I guess they build houses on post tensioned slabs in Las Vegas. Not sure why, I know nothing about concrete.
Some parts of the Las Vegas area have clay soils that can expand when they get wet. This is a potential problem for conventional slabs and the post-tensioned slab setup apparently can be made to deal with this situation better.
http://www.foundationrepairlasvegas.com/foundation-repair/foundation-problems/settlement-sinking/foundation-soils.html
http://www.jlconline.com/how-to/foundations/post-tensioned-slabs_o (paywall, sigh)
If you cannot bolt the safe to the floor, there is an alternative. Use a generous amount of construction adhesive to attach a piece of stout wood to the floor, then bolt the safe to the wood.
There is also the alternative to bolt the safe to a stout wall.
If you cannot bolt the safe to the floor, there is an alternative. Use a generous amount of construction adhesive to attach a piece of stout wood to the floor, then bolt the safe to the wood.
There is also the alternative to bolt the safe to a stout wall.
Please tell me you aren't in the construction business.
Please tell me you aren't in the construction business.
No I am not and for good reason.
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I always heard to avoid a garage or shop because of humidity & temperature changes but also to prevent tools from being readily available to assist breaking in.
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What part of the country do they build houses on post tensioned slabs and why? I can't see it being a problem drilling for bolts if you know where the wire is. It also wouldn't be a problem if you didn't know but didn't hit the wire. I can tell you what happens when a plumber drills a misplaced prestressed deck and hits the wire. You don't want to be on the floor below it.
The Southwestern United States.
I had to place mine on a wooden floor so I bolted mine to 1/2" wide steel straps that span 6 floor joists. There is no easy access to the crawl space, so good luck getting under there to cut them off.
Travelingchild
09-12-16, 22:33
. Yes, it is best to conceal it somehow...
I also knew a guy who had a small utility room converted to his safe room, then he put a fake shelf display with wine glasses glued to the shelves to conceal the safe room. It seemed to work well.
There are many ways to conceal safes. Use your imagination.
Kinda like this ? Pardon the crappy video
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd214/fallsafe/th_IMG_0061.mp4 (http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd214/fallsafe/IMG_0061.mp4)
It pays to have your safe at room temperature with de-humidifiers.
If possible a dedicated gun room with steel door and deadbolt is a great additional barrier to your stuff. Plus camera. Preferably a room with no windows.
Another thing is if a plumber/kid's friend(s)/cable guy comes over the room should be totally off limits. I'm happy if no one knows exactly what I have or where I keep it. Not just because they are valuables but out of responsibility.
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