View Full Version : The unfortunate saga of the Dodge Dart...
A swing and a miss for Chrysler. Anyone even knew it was going away?:
"The Dart was supposed to signal a fresh start for Fiat Chrysler, the newly created automaker risen from the rubble of the Great Recession. FCA promised a new kind of small car that combined American design, comfort and technology with Italian flair, sportiness and fuel economy. FCA touted it as using a modified Alfa Romeo architecture developed to underpin a family of vehicles that would take Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep to new heights.
Less than four and a half years later, the Dart is a footnote. Few people other than Dodge dealers are likely to notice when production ends this month."
http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2016/09/17/dodge-dart-ends-production-fiat-chrysler/90375498/
They need to stop screwing with the classics...
They need to stop screwing with the classics...
It's not that they're messing with classics - it's that they're making small, powerless commuter cars and nobody wants them.
It's not that they're messing with classics - it's that they're making small, powerless commuter cars and nobody wants them.
Let me rephrase. Stop screwing with the legacy of the classic era.
They've trashed every car they've tried to remake, except maybe the z28.
It all rolls downhill from the EPA. All of the manufacturers are being forced into making cars with higher fuel economy, Thus less weight meaning less gas. Now, have you noticed all of the parking spots are getting smaller? There's a very big agenda here. Sure, you can drive a full-size SUV or truck if you can afford one, but good luck trying to park it in a lot of places nowadays.
They screwed up by making the Dodge Charger a four door.
Meh..
I bought one of the Darts in 2013 with the 2.0 Tigershark. Love that damn car and was planning to buy another in 6 or 7 years to replace this one with. Guess that won't happen now. I've driven that car to hell and back and with the DryClutch shifter giving you the option to go Automatic or manually shift that little car gets up and goes in a hurry. Not to mention on Interstate travel I average 40mpg and if I'm on side and local highways where the speeds average 55 to 65 I get even better. Guess I'll be keeping this car for a long time then.
Averageman
09-18-16, 16:48
I bought one of the Darts in 2013 with the 2.0 Tigershark. Love that damn car and was planning to buy another in 6 or 7 years to replace this one with. Guess that won't happen now. I've driven that car to hell and back and with the DryClutch shifter giving you the option to go Automatic or manually shift that little car gets up and goes in a hurry. Not to mention on Interstate travel I average 40mpg and if I'm on side and local highways where the speeds average 55 to 65 I get even better. Guess I'll be keeping this car for a long time then.
Americans just don't want it. It's all about market pressure, that's why Ford is moving production of their small cars to Mexico, they sell better there.
I don't get the whole tiny death trap vehicle...I have a company truck 3/4 ton Chevy 6.0 that I drive 300-400+ mile per day, my daily driver is 14 Durango with a Diablo tuned Hemi, cold air intake, bigger throttle body, Borla nostrils & 180 degree thermostat. For a big heavy car you can put a bunch of large adults it, it will make them smile when you get on it. Wife has a 2015 Tahoe we just put 1k miles on running up to the Dallas / FW area to see my son at TCU.
I'm gonna trade the Dodge in for this new 650HP ZL1 Camaro with the 10 speed auto Ford & GM worked on jointly coming out in the spring...to me, life is too short to run around in a rice burner. I'll take the gas guzzler tax with a smile. Shut up & take my money!!
I do think it's very impressive what Ford has done with that ECO Boost 6cyl...the New Raptor will have this same 10 speed auto as the ZL1 Should be a neat Truck & I think they did a bang up job bringing the strong 6 to the very competitive 1/2 ton V8 market.
The_War_Wagon
09-18-16, 18:48
A swing and a miss for Chrysler. Anyone even knew it was going away?:
"The Dart was supposed to signal a fresh start for Fiat Chrysler, the newly created automaker risen from the rubble of the Great Recession. FCA promised a new kind of small car that combined American design, comfort and technology...
They were close. They got a classic American NAMEPLATE at least. :fie:
http://www.topcarrating.com/dodge/1968-dodge-dart-hemi.jpg
I don't get dodge. They have cheap cars, their a foreign company that advertises like they make high end American performance cars. I don't get who their audience is. Maybe it's the owners, but they don't seem to hold up to time very well either. Ford and Chevy both seem to have clear direction while dodge seems to still be searching for a market. Just my .02 based on perception.
Fist-Chrysler is basically toast.
Europe is a mess for Fiat, Chrysler has zero presence in an already way over capacity environment.
They are giving trucks away, with sub par crash ratings, to those who still don't realize you get what you pay for and their cars are total garbage. The last down turn proved slapping discounts on products while pumping inventory out is a race to the bottom.
I'd like to see the quality of their financing applicants and hence the quality of the loans they are making.
Anybody got a fork?
My next truck is in this photo.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v59/p1010388589-2.jpg
Americans just don't want it. It's all about market pressure, that's why Ford is moving production of their small cars to Mexico, they sell better there.
Nope, production is moving to Mexico to lower costs and try to turn a profit on them. Sales in Mexico are minuscule.
Unfortunately FCA in the US, consisting of Fiat, Chrysler, Dodge, Ram and Jeep for those who don't know, is a company with absolutely no direction and too many brands. The death warrant was signed when FCA broke off Ram Truck into it's own brand. They have no identity. FCA wants Dodge to produce fun, sporty cars and they have exactly 2 now. The Durango and Journey are outliers. Chrysler has 2 vehicles they "sell" in the 300 and new Pacifica. They want to play with the likes of Cadillac, Lincoln and the Big 3 German luxury brands and they just can't. Ram Truck and Jeep can survive on their own but barely. Most Jeeps anymore are "Mall Rated" at that.
Adding to their issues FCA sells all of their "American" branded cars in the same store, the Dart and 200 used to and the 300 and Charger directly compete with each other. It's insane. When Jeep releases their truck it will nearly compete with the Ram 1500 on the same damn lot with more incentives. FCA Group cars have no identity and are interchangeable. Without drastic incentives they will rot on the lot.
If FCA still exists in the US in the next 5-10 years I'll be very surprised, they are on life support and the insurance is going to quit paying eventually. Very few people think of a FCA car, truck or SUV and relates them to reliability, longevity and resale. Even the police package Charger is being left behind by agencies who can escape Mopar to go to Ford.
Ford and Chevrolet have brand identity, direction and a plan for the future. FCA has no clue.
I knew, didn't care. It was basically just a Dodge Neon replacement.
Not a driving enthusiasts car in any way at all. (Yea I know the Neon had some sport version as an entry level "sporty" car....I never see them anymore...I think they all died or were killed.)
I knew, didn't care. It was basically just a Dodge Neon replacement.
Not a driving enthusiasts car in any way at all. (Yea I know the Neon had some sport version as an entry level "sporty" car....I never see them anymore...I think they all died or were killed.)
Neon SRT4, that thing was 300 HP through FWD wicked. The MazdaSpeed 3 would have never existed without the evil Neon.
The_War_Wagon
09-19-16, 00:55
I still like Chrysler products, because you can STILL get V-8's with 'em mainly! I was a Ford/Mercury man my whole life (from age 16, to age 44); I'd owned;
- '68 Mercury Monterey fastback
- '79 Ford Bronco
- '93 Mustang GT (bought that new, and STILL miss it)
- '89 Crown Vic wagon
- '95 Grand Marquis
- '99 Mercury Sable
- '99 Ford Windstar
Then the Windstar started to rust away, as did the Grand Marquis. I got an '08 Grand Caravan to replace the mini-van (wifemobile - have a new 2016 model now), an '07 Jeep Commander to replace the Grand Marquis, and inherited a '92 Dodge Ramcharger that I've resto-modded as an offroad toy... so now I'm a Mopar Man!
SOMEDAY... I'll get back into a sedan, but right now there's the Charger and the 300M, both with Hemi's. FUDD trucks only come with 6 bangers, and I wouldn't own a Chebby if you gave me ALL of Obama Motorwerks with it. Dodge trucks are more affordable, better equipped, and ride better. Quite frankly, I'm not sure how Fudd & Chebby manage to sell trucks, when you HAVE a Dodge option to choose from. :cool:
But a Fiat-based ANYTHING? :no:
If I need a mousefartmobile (and I won't - EVER), I'd go back to FUDD first.
I don't get the whole tiny death trap vehicle...I have a company truck 3/4 ton Chevy 6.0 that I drive 300-400+ mile per day, my daily driver is 14 Durango with a Diablo tuned Hemi, cold air intake, bigger throttle body, Borla nostrils & 180 degree thermostat. For a big heavy car you can put a bunch of large adults it, it will make them smile when you get on it. Wife has a 2015 Tahoe we just put 1k miles on running up to the Dallas / FW area to see my son at TCU.
I'm gonna trade the Dodge in for this new 650HP ZL1 Camaro with the 10 speed auto Ford & GM worked on jointly coming out in the spring...to me, life is too short to run around in a rice burner. I'll take the gas guzzler tax with a smile. Shut up & take my money!!
I do think it's very impressive what Ford has done with that ECO Boost 6cyl...the New Raptor will have this same 10 speed auto as the ZL1 Should be a neat Truck & I think they did a bang up job bringing the strong 6 to the very competitive 1/2 ton V8 market.
Depends what you're looking for. I have one of those "tiny death traps". I've had trucks and sport cars. What I found is that it costs more to move my ass in a truck then it does in a small car. Same distance, same mileage, same person just more gas. I haul zero things and rarely if ever need to move something that requires a large vehicle. For the amount of times I needed to move a couch it's cheaper to rent a truck/van. Last time I did that was about 5 years ago. I've had 4 adults in my Corolla without problems. Of course it's not as spacious as a truck but it's by no means uncomfortable. I guess depends on the size of adults, but that's what you have to put up with if you're not willing to drive.
95% of the time I'm the only one in the car. 4% of the time I have a passenger who sits in the front anyway. And another 1% of the time there are more than 2 people. In either case most trips are local...10min, 30 miles, very few long distance trips and even fewer with more than 2 people. While I suppose I could have gotten a full size car with good gas mileage, this Corolla came at the right time, with very low mileage and at the right price.
This car costs me $20 a week in gas and I drive about 400 miles a week.
What am I getting at? I don't need much more than this Corolla for 99% of my driving.
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Let me rephrase. Stop screwing with the legacy of the classic era.
They've trashed every car they've tried to remake, except maybe the z28.
I'd take one of those fugly Darts over a new Camaro. The only retro cars the makers got mostly right was the Challenger and the Mustangs (before the new gen they have now).
I say good riddance.
F the EPA. Took my solid roller 347, 620hp cat-less, caged TA on skinnies and drag radials to dinner on Saturday with the wife. Drove 45 miles and must have killed 3 gallons of gas. Love it.
I knew, didn't care. It was basically just a Dodge Neon replacement.
That is all it was, never understood why they couldn't just keep it a Neon.
Neon SRT4, that thing was 300 HP through FWD wicked. The MazdaSpeed 3 would have never existed without the evil Neon.
A friend has the SRT4 Neon with work done, that little shit box was soooooooooo much fun!
Quite frankly, I'm not sure how Fudd & Chebby manage to sell trucks, when you HAVE a Dodge option to choose from. :cool:
I'm with you, I've had a Dodge Truck in one form or another since 1973. I tend to keep them for a while, five in 44 years - LOL. I have just sighed and accepted the fact they are going to rust out over the rear wheel wells. I just had the rear wheel wells redone on my '03. That is the pisser, it isn't like Dodge doesn't know it happens, obviously they do, but just as obviously they figure most buyers will be out of the truck and on to a new one before that happens.
Ever thought of rhino lining the wheel wells?
I have an 04 Dodge with 180k. No rust...
WickedWillis
09-19-16, 10:34
I'm with you, I've had a Dodge Truck in one form or another since 1973. I tend to keep them for a while, five in 44 years - LOL. I have just sighed and accepted the fact they are going to rust out over the rear wheel wells. I just had the rear wheel wells redone on my '03. That is the pisser, it isn't like Dodge doesn't know it happens, obviously they do, but just as obviously they figure most buyers will be out of the truck and on to a new one before that happens.
Dodge going to Fiat euro diesels is really going to hurt them. A large group of consumers only bought Dodge because you could get a Cummins in them.
Dodge going to Fiat euro diesels is really going to hurt them. A large group of consumers only bought Dodge because you could get a Cummins in them.
When are they going to eurodiesels?
brickboy240
09-19-16, 11:02
Why are people surprised when Chrysler flopped out while trying to compete in a market that is pretty much sewn up by Honda, Toyota and Nissan?
Fiat is not known for their build quality or reliability. Anyone really shocked that they could not compete with the Sentra, Civic or Corolla?
...really?
Honestly, I don't know why people keep lining up to buy junk like this. Gluttons for punishment, I guess.
Ram Truck and Jeep can survive on their own but barely. Most Jeeps anymore are "Mall Rated" at that.
You could probably throw together a company that made/sold Ram trucks (especially those sporting a Cummins), Wranglers and Grand Cherokees and it would survive pretty well. I browse every time I get my Cummins serviced and am generally not impressed with anything else....
brickboy240
09-19-16, 11:10
The Rams with the Cummins are basically a nice engine surrounded by iffy parts and shoddy build quality. You are also in the ball joint of the month club. Enjoy!
wildcard600
09-19-16, 11:13
Unfortunately FCA in the US, consisting of Fiat, Chrysler, Dodge, Ram and Jeep for those who don't know, is a company with absolutely no direction and too many brands. The death warrant was signed when FCA broke off Ram Truck into it's own brand. They have no identity. FCA wants Dodge to produce fun, sporty cars and they have exactly 2 now. The Durango and Journey are outliers. Chrysler has 2 vehicles they "sell" in the 300 and new Pacifica. They want to play with the likes of Cadillac, Lincoln and the Big 3 German luxury brands and they just can't. Ram Truck and Jeep can survive on their own but barely. Most Jeeps anymore are "Mall Rated" at that.
Adding to their issues FCA sells all of their "American" branded cars in the same store, the Dart and 200 used to and the 300 and Charger directly compete with each other. It's insane. When Jeep releases their truck it will nearly compete with the Ram 1500 on the same damn lot with more incentives. FCA Group cars have no identity and are interchangeable. Without drastic incentives they will rot on the lot.
If FCA still exists in the US in the next 5-10 years I'll be very surprised, they are on life support and the insurance is going to quit paying eventually. Very few people think of a FCA car, truck or SUV and relates them to reliability, longevity and resale. Even the police package Charger is being left behind by agencies who can escape Mopar to go to Ford.
Ford and Chevrolet have brand identity, direction and a plan for the future. FCA has no clue.
Have you taken a JK offroad ? There are plenty of things I don't like about the JK design, but the offroad capability is not one of them. A stock JK will walk over any other stock Jeep from at least the last 30 years.
We've now established one. The Patriot, Compass, Cherokee, and Renegade not so much. The Grand Cherokee, while possessing some capability is just another mid-size SUV. Even the GC, while possessing some capabilities are typically found along side JKs in parking lots, clean and shiny.
The actual point of my post is the vast majority of Jeep products don't go off road, in spite of lifts kits, big tires on 18s and the different bumpers on them. These the Mall Rated Jeeps behind the comment and this sticker: Mall Rated Jeeps (http://www.jcroffroad.com/product/BOOM/DLMLLRTD.html)
WickedWillis
09-19-16, 11:24
When are they going to eurodiesels?
I'm not sure when the change over will be, but it's the main reason they ended their contract with Cummins from my understanding. Their website still names the 2500 & 3500 with the 6.7L Cummins, and the 1500's now available with the V6 ECOdeisel as an option. Nissan is in bed with Cummins now, which I'm sure they won't properly build their truck around.
Dodge going to Fiat euro diesels is really going to hurt them. A large group of consumers only bought Dodge because you could get a Cummins in them.
And that you could get them with a hand shaker...
We have a 01 dually with a stick that is never leaving the family.
wildcard600
09-19-16, 11:50
We've now established one. The Patriot, Compass, Cherokee, and Renegade not so much. The Grand Cherokee, while possessing some capability is just another mid-size SUV. Even the GC, while possessing some capabilities are typically found along side JKs in parking lots, clean and shiny.
The actual point of my post is the vast majority of Jeep products don't go off road, in spite of lifts kits, big tires on 18s and the different bumpers on them. These the Mall Rated Jeeps behind the comment and this sticker: Mall Rated Jeeps (http://www.jcroffroad.com/product/BOOM/DLMLLRTD.html)
Gotcha. I agree that the Jeep ownership base is not what it used to be and the result is the dumbing down of the product line. The wrangler has escaped being turned into another crossover SUV so far, but we still haven't seen the final JL design spec so who knows...
Gotcha. I agree that the Jeep ownership base is not what it used to be and the result is the dumbing down of the product line. The wrangler has escaped being turned into another crossover SUV so far, but we still haven't seen the final JL design spec so who knows...
I still don't get why Wranglers are so damn expensive. I would love to get one but for $45K, no thanks...
brickboy240
09-19-16, 12:09
I don't see why anyone would want a Jeep over a pickup.
The Jeep is as expensive or more than a nicely equipped 2wd full size pickup. The Jeep gets the same gas mileage or damn close but is much more pokey than the 5.3 GM, 5.0 Ford or 5.7 Hemi Dodge motors. The Jeep is noisy on the highway and you cannot tow or carry large things.
If you ask me, it is a pretty worthless vehicle unless you are going on narrow mt trails or going to the beach. I cannot fit my muddy mt bike in the Jeep, let alone bigger or heavier things.
The Jeep looks cool...and that is where it ends for me...sorry.
I don't see why anyone would want a Jeep over a pickup.
The Jeep is as expensive or more than a nicely equipped 2wd full size pickup. The Jeep gets the same gas mileage or damn close but is much more pokey than the 5.3 GM, 5.0 Ford or 5.7 Hemi Dodge motors. The Jeep is noisy on the highway and you cannot tow or carry large things.
If you ask me, it is a pretty worthless vehicle unless you are going on narrow mt trails or going to the beach.
Because I have more use for a suv than a truck. I don't need something that big. And parking is easier
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Averageman
09-19-16, 12:15
Once you get in to the bigger Trucks you are going to catch hell finding parking anywhere.
Never take one to the Airport.
wildcard600
09-19-16, 12:36
I don't see why anyone would want a Jeep over a pickup.
The Jeep is as expensive or more than a nicely equipped 2wd full size pickup. The Jeep gets the same gas mileage or damn close but is much more pokey than the 5.3 GM, 5.0 Ford or 5.7 Hemi Dodge motors. The Jeep is noisy on the highway and you cannot tow or carry large things.
If you ask me, it is a pretty worthless vehicle unless you are going on narrow mt trails or going to the beach. I cannot fit my muddy mt bike in the Jeep, let alone bigger or heavier things.
The Jeep looks cool...and that is where it ends for me...sorry.
You are absolutely correct. Most people would be much better off with a small truck than a Wrangler.
That said there are still many reasons to choose a wrangler over a truck, if your needs warrant it. Trucks have breakover angle troubles, limited front end articulation, and limited aftermarket support if you really want to go crazy.
I have a 2003 Jeep Wrangler with some minor mods for off roading which I did plenty when I lived in Colorado. I am considering getting a new one, but I also looked at new Ford F-150's. I like basic vehicles. All the F-150's on the lot were $45K and up. Yes, they had extras I didn't want, but the all seem to come that way. I can get a new Jeep Wrangler with everything I want for $28K BEFORE I negotiate.
The Rams with the Cummins are basically a nice engine surrounded by iffy parts and shoddy build quality. You are also in the ball joint of the month club. Enjoy!
And yet I've got two. One new which is pretty nice for the $ I paid and one old enough to vote, with a pile of hard work truck miles, still going strong.
13+ 3500 and 14+ 2500s have had the front end redesigned to eliminate the ball joint issues. With the available info, they don't seem to have the issues of prior model years.
I'm not sure when the change over will be, but it's the main reason they ended their contract with Cummins from my understanding. Their website still names the 2500 & 3500 with the 6.7L Cummins, and the 1500's now available with the V6 ECOdeisel as an option. Nissan is in bed with Cummins now, which I'm sure they won't properly build their truck around.
Unless I missed it Ram still has a contract with Cummins for the HD trucks. They just stopped development on the diesel for the half tons when Fiat took over because Fiat wanted to use their own in house diesel. I'm pretty sure the 5.0 Cummins in the Nissan and Toyota are derivatives of that effort.
Fiat made the decision to market the 1500 diesel as the "fuel economy" option so in that respect switching to their diesel made a certain amount of sense. It was designed from the ground up for the Euro market with fuel economy as a priority. That's why it pushed 30mpg on the highway while the Nissan is 22-23, really not any better than my 2500 with the 6.7 Cummins....
And that you could get them with a hand shaker...
We have a 01 dually with a stick that is never leaving the family.
There's a 92 square body with a 5 speed sitting at my grandmother's house that will make it's way to my house if it sits too long. Was one of my grandfathers work trucks before he passed. Has that super low first gear on it where if you can get traction you can pull nearly anything...
Once you get in to the bigger Trucks you are going to catch hell finding parking anywhere.
Never take one to the Airport.
With my Ram 2500 CC I've just resigned myself to parking and walking. I can easily overhang both ends of a standard parking spot without trying....
It all rolls downhill from the EPA. All of the manufacturers are being forced into making cars with higher fuel economy, Thus less weight meaning less gas. Now, have you noticed all of the parking spots are getting smaller? There's a very big agenda here. Sure, you can drive a full-size SUV or truck if you can afford one, but good luck trying to park it in a lot of places nowadays.
Except most of the cars have gained serious weight, due to the NHTSA mandated safety requirements. This puts the EPA and NHTSA in direct conflict. Some companies are figuring out that weight savings can be had without taking a severe hit on safety ratings (Ford & GM), while some are lagging behind (FCA).
Look at the Hemi Challenger. There's a car that should weigh 3500-3700lb. It weighs 4200lb. By comparison, the Mustang GT weighs 3500 and the Camaro SS 3700. Yet the Challenger has the worst IIHS safety ratings of the three. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/flexing-muscle-sports-car-ratings-show-range-of-performance
So even though all three offer mid to upper 400's in horsepower, the Challenger will be left in the dust in every category except straight line acceleration (due to having the highest HP). The Camaro tops there as well, with 0-60 in 4.0 and the quarter in 12.3 @ 118. The GT is 4.3 and 12.9 @ 112, while the Challenger RT Scat Pack is 4.4 and 12.9 @ 113 (all manuals via Car & Driver).
I'd love to have an SRT 392 ($50.2K) or Hemi Scat Pack Shaker ($43.8K), but no way am I going to do that when a GT Premium is only $36.9K ($40.8K with the Perf Pkg that adds Brembos and Torsen diff) or the Camaro 2SS at $42.3K ($49K with Brembos and Magnetic Ride Control). Why would you pay more for something that's slower and has worse braking, cornering, ride comfort and safety? :confused:
WickedWillis
09-19-16, 13:39
And that you could get them with a hand shaker...
We have a 01 dually with a stick that is never leaving the family.
Working at a dealership for awhile, I saw a few million mile Cummins come in with manual transmissions. It was always cool to see.
The Rams with the Cummins are basically a nice engine surrounded by iffy parts and shoddy build quality. You are also in the ball joint of the month club. Enjoy!
Norris mcquay joints fix that one.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the rest of that. Me my family, and my buddies have owned them all.
Gm and ford just recently started doing hydroframes..... They're only a decade late to that party.
And that you could get them with a hand shaker...
We have a 01 dually with a stick that is never leaving the family.
I feel like I'm the last guy on earth with an nv5600 these days........ Original clutch 11 years later. Almost 180k
Norris mcquay joints fix that one.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the rest of that. Me my family, and my buddies have owned them all.
Gm and ford just recently started doing hydroframes..... They're only a decade late to that party.
Ford started with the 11th gens...'04 and up. Only two years after Dodge. Not to mention Dodge used mild steel then when Ford used high strength.
SomeOtherGuy
09-19-16, 14:27
The Rams with the Cummins are basically a nice engine surrounded by iffy parts and shoddy build quality. You are also in the ball joint of the month club. Enjoy!
We had an 06 Dodge 2500 4wd Cummins/auto and this was exactly our experience. Loved the engine, endless torque, acceptable mpg. The interior was OK. We got tired of replacing ball joints and brakes, and after paying for one total front-end rebuild that cost nearly $8000, we decided to sell it before it was due for another one.
Maybe they fixed those issues, maybe they didn't. I wasn't going to gamble $50,000 trying to find out. I used to be a fan of Chrysler but I got tired of problems and excuses. My 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD (diesel) was a total POS that I got rid of before the warranty ran out, because I knew what the cost was going to be if I kept it past warranty. That's a 10 year old vehicle today and I'm lucky to see one of them on the road in any 12 month period.
We had an 06 Dodge 2500 4wd Cummins/auto and this was exactly our experience. Loved the engine, endless torque, acceptable mpg. The interior was OK. We got tired of replacing ball joints and brakes, and after paying for one total front-end rebuild that cost nearly $8000, we decided to sell it before it was due for another one.
Maybe they fixed those issues, maybe they didn't. I wasn't going to gamble $50,000 trying to find out. I used to be a fan of Chrysler but I got tired of problems and excuses. My 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD (diesel) was a total POS that I got rid of before the warranty ran out, because I knew what the cost was going to be if I kept it past warranty. That's a 10 year old vehicle today and I'm lucky to see one of them on the road in any 12 month period.
How did you possibly spend $8,000? Please elaborate.......
Ford started with the 11th gens...'04 and up. Only two years after Dodge. Not to mention Dodge used mild steel then when Ford used high strength.
It only counts when you do the whole thing in my book.
You wouldn't just anodize the front 1/3 of a rifle, world you?
To my knowledge, ford is just now, on 2017 superduty using fully boxed hydroformed frames. I even found some citation.
http://www.grandledgeford.com/blog/new-2017-ford-super-duty-has-a-fully-boxed-frame/
Post some info if you have some on any superduty having a fully boxed hydroform frame that was built in the last decade. I would love to see that.
Ford started with the 11th gens...'04 and up. Only two years after Dodge. Not to mention Dodge used mild steel then when Ford used high strength.
Really high strength steel obviously.
Fast forward to 1:20 off you don't want to watch the whole thing.
https://youtu.be/bTMcEAiHsn4
And another......
https://youtu.be/_f3CAnH7WIM
Really high strength steel obviously.
Fast forward to 1:20 off you don't want to watch the whole thing.
https://youtu.be/bTMcEAiHsn4
I was talking half tons, not the super duties. I think they should have switched a long time ago though. I would still take a Ford super duty over a Dodge heavy duty. I would take the Dodge over a GM. Better axels, differentials, suspensions, etc. One of the diesel engine generations (I do not remember which) was not very good though. I think it was the first one Ford built after CORRECTION:Navistar stopped making their diesels. Dodge did it right with Cummins. I dig the Power Wagon, but I think they should have put something else besides the Hemi in it. Honestly, each has their own faults and good qualities.
Some of you are talking F250 and some F150.
Ford made very few changes to the 250 until this year because you don't typically mess with the market leader.
Hydro formed frame or not. That frame does precious little for you when the rest of the truck falls apart.
I've never driven a Chrysler product that wasn't a rattle trap after 10k miles.
I will say though that while the twists tests have merit, there is plenty of testimonies by people who repair heavy duty truck frames afters wrecks and the consensus is that Ford faired the best. I am still glad they switched up to boxed though. I have been looking but have not found whether or not they kept the solid axel up front. Do you know? GM was stupid to put IFS on their heavy dutys.
Some of you are talking F250 and some F150.
Ford made very few changes to the 250 until this year because you don't typically mess with the market leader.
Hydro formed frame or not. That frame does precious little for you when the rest of the truck falls apart.
I've never driven a Chrysler product that wasn't a rattle trap after 10k miles.
Don't they have a name for that? What was it, the death wobble?
Don't they have a name for that? What was it, the death wobble?
I call it a travesty!
We have folks on here who preach buying Colt - BCM - DD etc.......myself included.
Yet they'll spend countless thousands more on the Bushmaster of trucks because FCA dumps their inventory by slapping cash on the windshield.
Don't believe me, just look at the crash tests. That is what we call a clue.
I kinda dig the SRT Grand Cherokee...but can't really call that one an average run of the mill Jeep with the big Hemi. All in all the Durango has been a great car with the mods. 40k miles & never seen a shop other than routine maintenance.
I agree about the reg Jeeps being for trails...those damn things will flat out knock your fillings out running over a dime. Not sure why folks would want one for a daily driver unless you used them for what they are good for.
I don't see why anyone would want a Jeep over a pickup.
The Jeep is as expensive or more than a nicely equipped 2wd full size pickup. The Jeep gets the same gas mileage or damn close but is much more pokey than the 5.3 GM, 5.0 Ford or 5.7 Hemi Dodge motors. The Jeep is noisy on the highway and you cannot tow or carry large things.
If you ask me, it is a pretty worthless vehicle unless you are going on narrow mt trails or going to the beach. I cannot fit my muddy mt bike in the Jeep, let alone bigger or heavier things.
The Jeep looks cool...and that is where it ends for me...sorry.
I will say though that while the twists tests have merit, there is plenty of testimonies by people who repair heavy duty truck frames afters wrecks and the consensus is that Ford faired the best. I am still glad they switched up to boxed though. I have been looking but have not found whether or not they kept the solid axel up front. Do you know? GM was stupid to put IFS on their heavy dutys.
I'm nearly certain they are solid. If I find a reference I will post. But there are arguments for both.
Here you go, courtesy of Auto-week at the link below.
The new truck’s revisions are not just skin deep. The frame is new, fully boxed and built from 95 percent high-strength steel. Because of all that boxing, it’s also heavier. The company says this new one is 24 times stiffer than the old frame; that should provide a robust platform for the suspension.
Here, Ford doesn’t stray too far from the past. Peek underneath 4WD models and you’ll find a solid axle at each end. Conventional leaf springs handle suspension duties in the rear with coil springs and radius arms locating the front axle as before. Ford says the axle specs are beefier than the outgoing model, so we expect higher tow ratings and payloads than the existing Super Duty.
2017 Super Duty (http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/first-look-2017-ford-super-duty)
Some of you are talking F250 and some F150.
Ford made very few changes to the 250 until this year because you don't typically mess with the market leader.
Hydro formed frame or not. That frame does precious little for you when the rest of the truck falls apart.
I've never driven a Chrysler product that wasn't a rattle trap after 10k miles.
Only thing that rattles in this truck are the car seats and the ipod base. The interior or the glass doesn't rattle, because it's on a good frame......that's the whole point......
I could probably even go make a video of that one too....you guys would still say blasphemy......
Best part it's a farm truck.
I guess I've never given thought to crash tests. I try to avoid those.
I'm nearly certain they are solid. If I find a reference I will post. But there are arguments for both.
On a super/heavy duty, solid is what I would want. A half ton IFS is just fine, unless you plan on rock crawling. In that case, build a purpose built rig.
IFS makes everyone more money......
They're a front end and alignment techs dream. Just plan on wheel bearings at 120k.... Getting stranded in NV on a Sunday sucks when they break.
Them torsion bars though...... Plus they're awesome to work on....since they're lower to the ground and all.
I have a special set of blocks just for servicing the chevys. Best one is when the outboard def tank gets rekt..... Cause it's like 4.75" off the damn ground.
Way to go gm.....Way to go....
Only thing that rattles in this truck are the car seats and the ipod base. The interior or the glass doesn't rattle, because it's on a good frame......that's the whole point......
I could probably even go make a video of that one too....you guys would still say blasphemy......
Best part it's a farm truck.
I guess I've never given thought to crash tests. I try to avoid those.
yah I've only put 30k on mine so far but it's still tight.
at the end of the day each of the HD trucks has their issues. example is the bosch cp4 high pressure pump on the powerstroke and duramax have more than a small incidence rate of disintegration. ford in particular has a habit of not covering it if you can prove you drained the water separator every month. bad juju since it generally borks the entire rest of your fuel system to the tune of $5k.
the issues in question aren't really common, but at the end of the day I can tolerate a rattling truck if it gets to that a lot better than I can tolerate $5- $10k in repairs....
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Well, I wouldn't really call a Corolla a tiny death trap anyway. It's the whole itty bitty smart car where the driver looks to have the lawn mower engine in their lap & tail pipe in their ass is what makes me scratch my head. To each his own, as you stated it's all in what you are looking for I guess.
I've already had buddys who have $80k King Ranch F250's that never pull anything or leave the payment tell me my future Camaro purchase is wasteful...they don't like the come back on their wheels. I do A LOT of hunting & fishing & am fortunate to have a 4WD company truck that they allow me to use for personal. This opens things up for me now. I've spent the last 20 years living frugal driving 10-15 year old vehicles, but am now in a place where my mortgage is paid & have no debt. I'm in my late 40's and can pay cash for what I want to get. I might fill up my current Durango maybe once a month as I don't need to drive it accept when I want to with the company wheels. I don't have the gas concerns some need to consider.
~~~~~~
FWIW, I always enjoy good car discussions but never did get into the whole one flavor is junk, would rather push my brand than drive your crap...I bought my son an F150 with the 5.0 to take off to college, my wife has a Tahoe & I currently drive Dodge...when I went looking for this sports car I narrowed it down to the HellCat, GT 350R, ZL1 & CTS-V. Brand was never a major deciding factor.
Depends what you're looking for. I have one of those "tiny death traps". I've had trucks and sport cars. What I found is that it costs more to move my ass in a truck then it does in a small car. Same distance, same mileage, same person just more gas. I haul zero things and rarely if ever need to move something that requires a large vehicle. For the amount of times I needed to move a couch it's cheaper to rent a truck/van. Last time I did that was about 5 years ago. I've had 4 adults in my Corolla without problems. Of course it's not as spacious as a truck but it's by no means uncomfortable. I guess depends on the size of adults, but that's what you have to put up with if you're not willing to drive.
95% of the time I'm the only one in the car. 4% of the time I have a passenger who sits in the front anyway. And another 1% of the time there are more than 2 people. In either case most trips are local...10min, 30 miles, very few long distance trips and even fewer with more than 2 people. While I suppose I could have gotten a full size car with good gas mileage, this Corolla came at the right time, with very low mileage and at the right price.
This car costs me $20 a week in gas and I drive about 400 miles a week.
What am I getting at? I don't need much more than this Corolla for 99% of my driving.
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yah I've only put 30k on mine so far but it's still tight.
at the end of the day each of the HD trucks has their issues. example is the bosch cp4 high pressure pump on the powerstroke and duramax have more than a small incidence rate of disintegration. ford in particular has a habit of not covering it if you can prove you drained the water separator every month. bad juju since it generally borks the entire rest of your fuel system to the tune of $5k.
the issues in question aren't really common, but at the end of the day I can tolerate a rattling truck if it gets to that a lot better than I can tolerate $5- $10k in repairs....
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Gm was bad about covering injectors. Their no lift fuel system sucks and is half of the issue. The dealer acted like it was their fault for not draining the seperator every time they parked on two of the trucks I know of. Both denied.
Ghey...
Another buddies 13 ford had the cab pulled. Now rattles bad, also ghey...
How's the towing mileage on yours Nova? I've been in 2 different 15 rams this year, and the towing mileage was about as bad as the powerstrokes and duramaxes..... Horrible fuel economy. The one got 6.5........ It was exactly half of what my 5.9 would have done on the same trip.
I have friends with every brand of truck. EVERYONE I know with a diesel have some sort of problem every now and then. Expensive to fix problems at that. Everyone I know that has a gas motor truck, 1500 and 2500 series, have few problems no matter the brand.
I truly believe that the EPA has ruined diesel trucks.
EDIT:
The guys with the old diesels, ie 2002 or earlier, seem to have fewer issues. When they do have issues it seems more related to the fact they all have 200k+ miles than necessarily a problem with the motor design.
Most of the guys I know with new Diesels are deleting that DEF nonsense off their new trucks...it seems to be a pretty big pain & they are paying heavy to get rid it.
I was supposed to get a new truck when hired in the oil patch, but it went to crap and got a 2011 3/4 ton chevy 6.0 with 180k miles they had sitting around...that was in Feb and it now has 237k miles. Nothing but oil changes & did a tranny service last week. I'm not picky as long as it gets down the road & has AC.
I would be hard pressed to pick a diesel over a gas if I was in the market from what I see now...kinda sad.
I have friends with every brand of truck. EVERYONE I know with a diesel have some sort of problem every now and then. Expensive to fix problems at that. Everyone I know that has a gas motor truck, 1500 and 2500 series, have few problems no matter the brand.
I truly believe that the EPA has ruined diesel trucks.
EDIT:
The guys with the old diesels, ie 2002 or earlier, seem to have fewer issues. When they do have issues it seems more related to the fact they all have 200k+ miles than necessarily a problem with the motor design.
Gm was bad about covering injectors. Their no lift fuel system sucks and is half of the issue. The dealer acted like it was their fault for not draining the seperator every time they parked on two of the trucks I know of. Both denied.
Ghey...
Another buddies 13 ford had the cab pulled. Now rattles bad, also ghey...
How's the towing mileage on yours Nova? I've been in 2 different 15 rams this year, and the towing mileage was about as bad as the powerstrokes and duramaxes..... Horrible fuel economy. The one got 6.5........ It was exactly half of what my 5.9 would have done on the same trip.
I really have not done a huge amount of towing with it since I just bought the camper it was intended for today [emoji14]
I did tow my skid steer with a Bridgeport mill I bought back home in a decent trip. load topped out just under 13k with the trailer. based on the fuel I put in I was doing about 15mpg.
unloaded the sucker just sips fuel on the highway though. I had a business trip in July that I went from Priceville, al to Harrisonburg, VA on one tank. made a scorpion evo in mileage and per diem on that trip :D
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Yeah I would stay away from diesels. If I get a new truck anytime soon I would like a new F250 w/ the 6.2 in 4x4 and supercab in the blue jeans color. I love that color.
SomeOtherGuy
09-19-16, 21:44
I have friends with every brand of truck. EVERYONE I know with a diesel have some sort of problem every now and then. Expensive to fix problems at that. Everyone I know that has a gas motor truck, 1500 and 2500 series, have few problems no matter the brand.
The guys with the old diesels, ie 2002 or earlier, seem to have fewer issues. When they do have issues it seems more related to the fact they all have 200k+ miles than necessarily a problem with the motor design.
2007 is when the difficult emissions regulations went into place. Our 2006 Ram/Cummins never had an engine problem in our 9 years and 77k miles. We took good care of it, but nothing extraordinary - regular oil changes with synthetic oil and using quality diesel were the big ones. Used PowerService additive in winter as needed, not lots of it though. (This is a combination fuel system cleaner and anti-gel - #2 diesel gels below freezing - good stations have the properly blended winter fuel that's good down to much colder temperatures, but if you get a batch of the wrong fuel you could get gelling.)
I have friends with every brand of truck. EVERYONE I know with a diesel have some sort of problem every now and then. Expensive to fix problems at that. Everyone I know that has a gas motor truck, 1500 and 2500 series, have few problems no matter the brand.
I truly believe that the EPA has ruined diesel trucks.
EDIT:
The guys with the old diesels, ie 2002 or earlier, seem to have fewer issues. When they do have issues it seems more related to the fact they all have 200k+ miles than necessarily a problem with the motor design.
I haven't had any issue with my def system yet. burn about 2.5 gallons every 2 months. that said if it bites the dust outside of warranty it's getting deleted. def injector replacement is like $1200, tune with delete is like $900.
a diesel without epa interference would be amazing. first round of epa way back when was to control nox. easy and cheap way to do that is to run rich with egr. running rich makes soot which is why all the old ones rolled coal continuously.
so then the epa said you had to put a particulate filter on them to get rid of the soot. that's what really borked them up. the tunes you had to run to keep from plugging them coupled with the regen cycles killed fuel economy. that's where you hear of 6.4L powerstrokes getting 9mpg unloaded on the hwy and 5 loaded.
epa round 3 said that you had to cut nox again, to the point rich and egr wouldn't cut it anymore. that's where def steps in so you can add a catalytic converter. the other aspect of it is if you've already got to use def then you may as well run lean and use less egr, the end result being less soot and less regen for the dpf.
so the def has gotten diesels back up to where diesels would have been had the epa not monkeyed around to begin with. the aftermarket tuners show that if emissions aren't a concern, and all you've got to worry about is melting the turbo with high egt, you can get stupid amounts of power and burn less fuel....
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and to be perfectly honest, the majority of problems with diesels are due to a lack of PM. a lot of people don't do the regular maintenance and inspections like they're supposed to.
even little things like draining the separator on schedule. takes 5 minutes to do and can easily save you and injection pump.
my main task tonight was changing both filters on my truck for that very reason. aggravating job that's nearly impossible to do without getting covered in diesel for the rear but $100 in filters and some aggravation is better than a $5k fuel system.
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SomeOtherGuy
09-19-16, 21:51
How did you possibly spend $8,000? Please elaborate.......
It's been 5+ years since we paid that so I don't remember all the details, but basically, about six months apart, we had:
-all ball joints replaced at the front end, to the tune of almost $2000, and
-separately, the wheel bearings, front U-joints (propshaft and axle shafts), front brake rotors and misc. other front-end parts replaced with a bill in the $6000 range. We were told that the fix involved removing the entire front axle from the truck, rebuilding it off the truck, and reinstalling it, and was 12+ hours actual labor time. Were also told that parts, not labor, were the major cost. There may have been more items replaced in this service than I can remember right now.
This work was done by an independent mechanic shop that, at the time, we had high confidence in. A few years later I had reason to question their work on a different vehicle, based on a dealership's statement that the wrong ATF was used in my GM transmission, but I never found out for certain what happened.
I have two licensed professional mechanics in the extended family, both familiar with US brand heavy duty trucks, and they thought the total repair cost was more an issue of the Dodge design problems than having overpaid. You sound like a professional mechanic, if this sounds wrong I'm interested to hear.
I haven't had any issue with my def system yet. burn about 2.5 gallons every 2 months. that said if it bites the dust outside of warranty it's getting deleted. def injector replacement is like $1200, tune with delete is like $900.
a diesel without epa interference would be amazing. first round of epa way back when was to control nox. easy and cheap way to do that is to run rich with egr. running rich makes soot which is why all the old ones rolled coal continuously.
so then the epa said you had to put a particulate filter on them to get rid of the soot. that's what really borked them up. the tunes you had to run to keep from plugging them coupled with the regen cycles killed fuel economy. that's where you hear of 6.4L powerstrokes getting 9mpg unloaded on the hwy and 5 loaded.
epa round 3 said that you had to cut nox again, to the point rich and egr wouldn't cut it anymore. that's where def steps in so you can add a catalytic converter. the other aspect of it is if you've already got to use def then you may as well run lean and use less egr, the end result being less soot and less regen for the dpf.
so the def has gotten diesels back up to where diesels would have been had the epa not monkeyed around to begin with. the aftermarket tuners show that if emissions aren't a concern, and all you've got to worry about is melting the turbo with high egt, you can get stupid amounts of power and burn less fuel....
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I do not know much about diesels but I know from reading on f150forum that with a programmer and some tunes, maybe a few other things and those things would gain so much damn power whereas with gas with a tune you would maybe get 10hp/20trq with no other bolt ons. I do dig my 5 star tunes on my truck though.
Eurodriver
09-19-16, 22:03
Yeah I would stay away from diesels. If I get a new truck anytime soon I would like a new F250 w/ the 6.2 in 4x4 and supercab in the blue jeans color. I love that color.
How do you get around parking garages and downtowns on busy nights in something that big?
I do not know much about diesels but I know from reading on f150forum that with a programmer and some tunes, maybe a few other things and those things would gain so much damn power whereas with gas with a tune you would maybe get 10hp/20trq with no other bolt ons. I do dig my 5 star tunes on my truck though.
yeah diesels are very conducive to more power in general. especially the common rail types prevalent today. when you can play with timing and duration of multiple injection events per cycle plus boost, egr, etc etc it adds up.
shoot I've seen nearly 100hp just from turning egr off completely. biggest thing is just to monitor egt so that you don't smoke your turbo.
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How do you get around parking garages and downtowns on busy nights in something that big?
They are not that big. Some areas are difficult like garages as you mentioned. I hate congested areas and stay away from downtowns, so not an issue. One reason I want a supercab and not a supercew, and a 6 3/4' bed and not the 8' bed. I want the shortest wheelbase as possible because I like to offroad. One reason my truck now is a reg cab short bed. They do not make the superduties in that config anymore. I am also not one to lift the damn thing 8" like some hilljanks. Some people argue the 8' bed but I have never had an issue with the 6' with wood, furniture, etc.
cougar_guy04
09-19-16, 22:07
I still like Chrysler products, because you can STILL get V-8's with 'em mainly! I was a Ford/Mercury man my whole life (from age 16, to age 44); I'd owned;
- '68 Mercury Monterey fastback
- '79 Ford Bronco
- '93 Mustang GT (bought that new, and STILL miss it)
- '89 Crown Vic wagon
- '95 Grand Marquis
- '99 Mercury Sable
- '99 Ford Windstar
Then the Windstar started to rust away, as did the Grand Marquis. I got an '08 Grand Caravan to replace the mini-van (wifemobile - have a new 2016 model now), an '07 Jeep Commander to replace the Grand Marquis, and inherited a '92 Dodge Ramcharger that I've resto-modded as an offroad toy... so now I'm a Mopar Man!
I hear you on the V8s. Mopar has another thing that is a dying breed . . . RWD!
Was raised in a Mopar household. Learned to drive in an old Ram D150 (that's still in the family to this day, it leaves the family over my dead body), but my first car was an '89 Cavalier Z24. Got rear ended a week after I turned 16 and replaced it with a '96 Cougat XR7. Replaced that with a Crown Vic because I wanted a V8 RWD sedan when I graduated college and that was the only one in my price range. Spent 15+ years driving RWD vehicles and just love RWD/AWD vehicles.
Just replaced my Vic with a '11 Explorer but really miss my RWD. Already looking at replacing it with a Durango R/T with either RWD or AWD. Only reason I'm looking at those is because some idiot at Chrysler didn't like the Magnum and cancelled it. I love my Explorer, but feel like I made a mistake getting into a FWD vehicle (even the AWD version is pretty front biased).
Edit: Also, jealous of the Ramcharger. My dad has wanted a 92-93 Ramcharger for years. I'd love to find one for him but all the ones I find are beat to hell. Would also love to find an 80's 4-speed Power Ram Crew Cab/4x4 but that's harder than trying to find a stock 7.3/S-Crew/4x4 Super Duty in good condition for under $20k
I have friends with every brand of truck. EVERYONE I know with a diesel have some sort of problem every now and then. Expensive to fix problems at that. Everyone I know that has a gas motor truck, 1500 and 2500 series, have few problems no matter the brand.
I truly believe that the EPA has ruined diesel trucks.
EDIT:
The guys with the old diesels, ie 2002 or earlier, seem to have fewer issues. When they do have issues it seems more related to the fact they all have 200k+ miles than necessarily a problem with the motor design.
Ford had serious issues with the reliability of the Navistar supplied diesels. After this experience they developed their own diesel, which, by most accounts, is as solid as the rest of their engines.
The EPA makes running diesels more complex and expensive, except for VW of course.
For you guys loving the V8's, would you be happy driving a 90's flip phone and trying to get tapacrap to work?
Engine technology advancements have been a fantastic HP / TQ story over the last six years.
My mother owns a Dakota, with the 5.7L V8, that I drive infrequently. That engine is an absolute DOG compared to my 3.5L twin turbo. I thought it was a six cylinder until I lifted the hood and looked.
If you like your V8's you can keep your V8's. I'll take the low RPM, head snapping, torque every day of the week.
I'm a big fan of the 3.5 Ecoboost. The Gen2 coming out as we speak fixes the only real problem with the motor which was carbon build up on the intake valves. That and it now makes 375 HP and 470 tq.
Were I to buy a F150 tomorrow I would probably still buy the 5.0 though. Not because I believe it's better than the Ecoboost, but because at heart I'm still a car guy and exhaust note is a factor to me. To me, nothing sounds as good as an American V8.
I'm a big fan of the 3.5 Ecoboost. The Gen2 coming out as we speak fixes the only real problem with the motor which was carbon build up on the intake valves. That and it now makes 375 HP and 470 tq.
Were I to buy a F150 tomorrow I would probably still buy the 5.0 though. Not because I believe it's better than the Ecoboost, but because at heart I'm still a car guy and exhaust note is a factor to me. To me, nothing sounds as good as an American V8.
This.
Got a Flowmaster Super 50 on my Tundra this week. Finally my truck sounds like it should.
It's been 5+ years since we paid that so I don't remember all the details, but basically, about six months apart, we had:
-all ball joints replaced at the front end, to the tune of almost $2000, and
-separately, the wheel bearings, front U-joints (propshaft and axle shafts), front brake rotors and misc. other front-end parts replaced with a bill in the $6000 range. We were told that the fix involved removing the entire front axle from the truck, rebuilding it off the truck, and reinstalling it, and was 12+ hours actual labor time. Were also told that parts, not labor, were the major cost. There may have been more items replaced in this service than I can remember right now.
This work was done by an independent mechanic shop that, at the time, we had high confidence in. A few years later I had reason to question their work on a different vehicle, based on a dealership's statement that the wrong ATF was used in my GM transmission, but I never found out for certain what happened.
I have two licensed professional mechanics in the extended family, both familiar with US brand heavy duty trucks, and they thought the total repair cost was more an issue of the Dodge design problems than having overpaid. You sound like a professional mechanic, if this sounds wrong I'm interested to hear.
Oh dear god you got ripped off in the worst way. They lied their asses off to you. That axle does not come out for that job. Only reason to ever pull an axle housing is if it's actually bent or broken.
Yes, I am a mechanic.
I had my 05' done last year. I didn't have the time to do it since I was busy being a one man show at my most colossal failure in life thus far, so I paid les Schwab to do it. Plus I didn't have a ball joint press, and didn't feel like buying an OTC or some other quality press. The loaner presses for the most part are complete junk and prone to breakage.
Everything but stabilizer, and control arms. Top of the line parts. Skf bearings.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160920/c75daaf93c067bd85c5e5781376b1ac7.jpg
Had I had time and a press, I could have done it for about half and Not paid their inflated "comes with warranty" price on parts. I Wished I had. Could have bought 2 glocks for the money.
Brakes are a cheap job. You don't need rotors unless you completely wreck them by running pads to bare metal.
So, even if that all takes you to $3k..... Where's the other $5,000?
I really have not done a huge amount of towing with it since I just bought the camper it was intended for today [emoji14]
I did tow my skid steer with a Bridgeport mill I bought back home in a decent trip. load topped out just under 13k with the trailer. based on the fuel I put in I was doing about 15mpg.
unloaded the sucker just sips fuel on the highway though. I had a business trip in July that I went from Priceville, al to Harrisonburg, VA on one tank. made a scorpion evo in mileage and per diem on that trip :D
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Nice. Well, that's encouraging. I was about to just accept that I'll never be able to afford a 6.7 L. Maybe there's a chance.
Single digit fuel economy is unacceptable in my book. Kenworth T600s with DDEC 2 engines and 13 speed meritors got 6.1mpg hauling damn milk in unbaffled trailers back in the day. Over weight all the damn time... Around 100k # combined. Fleet average mpg no less.....
I felt nauseous when it took 3 fuel ups, on 2 different 2015 trucks, (lifted and 35s) same trip, same loads (big car hauler trailers). It makes my head hurt to think that a semi is capable of similar mileage.
Eta: I just looked up the mileage on your trip for one tank....dang... That's what mine gets driving. That double OD last gear must help a bunch.
Eurodriver
09-20-16, 00:49
Why do you guys like full size American trucks over the more reliable, less expensive, better looking, easier to navigate, more classy Tacoma?
Why do you guys like full size American trucks over the more reliable, less expensive, better looking, easier to navigate, more classy Tacoma?
All subjective. Plenty of issues with them. The frame rot issue is just one to speak of. They are not impervious to issues; same as everyone else. Definitely not always cheaper. Better looking than what? A Titan? Subjective again. If you have trouble navigating a full size, give up driving. More classy? Dare I say...subjective? I do like Tacoma's better than some other trucks though. That is if you were not being facetious.
The American 1/2 ton trucks are actually pretty reliable. I went with a Tundra though. I was going to but a Tacoma but ended up buying a camper trailer and it would pretty much max out a Taco.
Why do you guys like full size American trucks over the more reliable, less expensive, better looking, easier to navigate, more classy Tacoma?
Oh please.
Makes me nostalgic for the old 1979 Chevy C-10 pickup I drove for 8 years when I was stationed at Nellis AFB near Las Vegas. That thing had no air conditioning, no radio, no power steering, no power brakes. Basically four wheels, a bench seat and a steering wheel (and the old three speed column shifter). Got me around reliably, though. I KNOW they don't make 'em like that any more :D
-all ball joints replaced at the front end, to the tune of almost $2000,
Sounds very high
-separately, the wheel bearings, front U-joints (propshaft and axle shafts), front brake rotors and misc. other front-end parts replaced with a bill in the $6000 range. We were told that the fix involved removing the entire front axle from the truck, rebuilding it off the truck, and reinstalling it, and was 12+ hours actual labor time. Were also told that parts, not labor, were the major cost. There may have been more items replaced in this service than I can remember right now.
Sorry, but I suspect they ripped you off. Nothing you mentioned requires removal of the axle. And I've never heard of need to have all bearings & u joints replaced like that on a truck with less than 300-400k miles on it. If you have an issue it's normally 1 or 2 and no big deal. Very unlikely all failed.
Besides, this should have been covered under powertrain warranty if under 100k.
Without boring you with details, I just know of too many Cummins 2500 & 3500s that see hard use and go 200-350k or more miles without that type of issue, or even close.
Lift pumps, right front ball joint, stuff like that? Sure, at 150k plus. Water pump at 160k, took me under 15 minutes to change it.
Why do you guys like full size American trucks over the more reliable, less expensive, better looking, easier to navigate, more classy Tacoma?
With all respect: because my Cummins Ram 3500 gets about the same fuel mileage flat towing a Tacoma than the Tacoma gets driving on its own. Which just makes no sense to me.
If Toyota sold the Hilux quad cab here like they do in the rest of the world, I have two of them. Great trucks.
But their US market trucks while made well, just don't do what I need to do. Same really for Nissan, I'd love to have the Nissan with the 4 cylinder Cummins, but it does the same mileage as my Ram but carries/tows much less. Why would that make sense?
Granted I have an early third gen high output Cummins, but before they went crazy chasing horsepower / torque. Might be the peak of the fuel mileage in the third gen yet still has very respectable horsepower and torque
I'm not dissing Toyota trucks, it's just the marketing / design decisions on their US models that do not make sense.
How do you get around parking garages and downtowns on busy nights in something that big?
Ha! That's the first thing I thought of too. Center city Philadelphia you can barely find a Civic sized parking space let alone for something as big as a full size truck
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I feel exactly the same way about the front wheel drive progression & think you will end up liking the RT...mine is RWD in the Limited. The 5.7 has been a good motor & pretty easy to wake up with mods if you don't want to worry about the warrantee issues. The 8 speed tranny is solid & I'm getting about 22-23mpg on the hwy. going about 80. I goose it too much scooting around in town to give you a good mpg there. The guys over at dodgedurango.net were helpful when I looked into the mods. A lot of the guys up north get the AWD for obvious reasons, but had no real need for it where I live. Good luck.
I hear you on the V8s. Mopar has another thing that is a dying breed . . . RWD!
Was raised in a Mopar household. Learned to drive in an old Ram D150 (that's still in the family to this day, it leaves the family over my dead body), but my first car was an '89 Cavalier Z24. Got rear ended a week after I turned 16 and replaced it with a '96 Cougat XR7. Replaced that with a Crown Vic because I wanted a V8 RWD sedan when I graduated college and that was the only one in my price range. Spent 15+ years driving RWD vehicles and just love RWD/AWD vehicles.
Just replaced my Vic with a '11 Explorer but really miss my RWD. Already looking at replacing it with a Durango R/T with either RWD or AWD. Only reason I'm looking at those is because some idiot at Chrysler didn't like the Magnum and cancelled it. I love my Explorer, but feel like I made a mistake getting into a FWD vehicle (even the AWD version is pretty front biased).
Edit: Also, jealous of the Ramcharger. My dad has wanted a 92-93 Ramcharger for years. I'd love to find one for him but all the ones I find are beat to hell. Would also love to find an 80's 4-speed Power Ram Crew Cab/4x4 but that's harder than trying to find a stock 7.3/S-Crew/4x4 Super Duty in good condition for under $20k
SomeOtherGuy
09-20-16, 08:23
Sounds very high
Sorry, but I suspect they ripped you off. Nothing you mentioned requires removal of the axle. And I've never heard of need to have all bearings & u joints replaced like that on a truck with less than 300-400k miles on it. If you have an issue it's normally 1 or 2 and no big deal. Very unlikely all failed.
Oh dear god you got ripped off in the worst way. They lied their asses off to you. That axle does not come out for that job. Only reason to ever pull an axle housing is if it's actually bent or broken.
Yes, I am a mechanic.
Well, live and learn. Sounds like I got hosed back then. If I had known these were unnecessary or massively overpriced repairs I probably would have kept the truck 1-2 years longer, though not more because of advances in airbags and stuff. We replaced it with a Chevy crew cab, gas.
Since it sounds I got ripped off there, the other issue that might have involved them was with my 07 Suburban, where I had them do a routine transmission fluid change. The transmission in the 07 Suburban requires what was then GM's latest fluid, and I asked the shop several times to be sure they installed it, and I was charged for it. Two months later the transmission started working roughly, so I took it to the dealer, who reported that they thought it had the wrong ATF, but the dealer was willing to fix it anyway - still under the powertrain warranty.
So you two are mechanics. How do I find an honest independent shop? This place that hosed me seemed good in all ways, and the owner was the cousin of our next door neighbor, a professional farmer who we were on good terms with and seemed honest. What do I look for to find a good and honest mechanic?
Nice. Well, that's encouraging. I was about to just accept that I'll never be able to afford a 6.7 L. Maybe there's a chance.
Single digit fuel economy is unacceptable in my book. Kenworth T600s with DDEC 2 engines and 13 speed meritors got 6.1mpg hauling damn milk in unbaffled trailers back in the day. Over weight all the damn time... Around 100k # combined. Fleet average mpg no less.....
I felt nauseous when it took 3 fuel ups, on 2 different 2015 trucks, (lifted and 35s) same trip, same loads (big car hauler trailers). It makes my head hurt to think that a semi is capable of similar mileage.
Eta: I just looked up the mileage on your trip for one tank....dang... That's what mine gets driving. That double OD last gear must help a bunch.
yeah I think double OD helps a lot. for your 2015 example, big tires will kill your mpg. increasing that rotational size and mass increases the energy and thus fuel required to spin it up and keep it spinning.
weekly I run 60 miles round trip to work every day, then whatever driving around town in the evenings before and after getting my boys, going to church, etc etc. I burn about a tank a week. I usually tank up on Saturday morning and the fuel light usually doesn't come on before I fill it up.
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Why do you guys like full size American trucks over the more reliable, less expensive, better looking, easier to navigate, more classy Tacoma?
because I can load up 15k on the bumper or 17k on a 5th wheel and roll on without issue. weights that would crush a Tacoma. I don't tow a huge amount but when I need it is need it.
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SomeOtherGuy
09-20-16, 08:30
Why do you guys like full size American trucks over the more reliable, less expensive, better looking, easier to navigate, more classy Tacoma?
Because a Tacoma won't pull a 12,000lb gooseneck trailer?
Toyota makes good light duty trucks. My father has been driving a 2000 Tundra since new and plans to keep it another 10 years. They aren't made for heavy work. Until the Nissan Titan XD came out this year there was no heavy duty option besides the big 3. The XD does look promising, but the current Ford and GM products are pretty good and have a long track record.
If you don't actually need to do big-truck things, you are much better off not getting a big truck, between purchase price, ride quality, gas mileage, repair and maintenance costs, ease of parking, etc. etc.
How do you get around parking garages and downtowns on busy nights in something that big?
simple. I don't go unless I have to and I avoid it at all costs.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160920/a9155b86b56517bc1d0e07f7d9c41924.jpg
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Eurodriver
09-20-16, 08:43
Edited because I was talking about big ass dualie-type trucks, not the standard F150-sized truck. Those full size 4x4 pickups are easily $50k. Some dudes spend $65k. That's 2017 AMG C63 Benz money :cool: 3.9sec 0-60, 469hp biturbo V8, top speed limited to 155mph...the unlimited black series hits 190mph+ and those will get you looked at in a good way when you pull up to the club and hand the valet the keys.
http://images.car.bauercdn.com/pagefiles/21208/amg_c63_coupe_7.jpg
simple. I don't go unless I have to and I avoid it at all costs.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160920/a9155b86b56517bc1d0e07f7d9c41924.jpg
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Epic right there.
I don't intentionally antagonize but I have frankly never ever understood the fascination/desire to own such a big ass vehicle. I have towed jet skis with a 4cyl Wrangler just fine, and that's about as big as I can ever imagine towing anything. I am not trying to put down anyone for their choice of a big truck, but rather understand the mentality behind it. Pinz, you mentioned towing. What are you towing?
Don't confuse my post with "You don't need a big truck". This is America, and nothing made me happier than when I was living in Hawaii seeing the Japanese tourists taking pics with big ass dualie quad cab lifted Rams. I just want to better understand why anyone would want one. As someone who could probably get by with a Dodge Dart (;)) 99% of the time, I didn't even want to get a 4Runner because it is so big. I only did because I wanted reliability and comfort in something that would take me to shooting spots and not be out of action every time the streets flooded (every day here). I would have gotten a 2 door Wrangler, but with my job I need a hard top and a Jeep with a hard top isn't a real Jeep. Plus the reliability isn't where it needs to be for $30k. I know of no other true 4x4s SUVs on the market.
Topping it off is the price. Those full size 4x4 pickups are easily $50k. Some dudes spend $65k. That's 2017 AMG C63 Benz money :cool: 3.9sec 0-60, 469hp biturbo V8, top speed limited to 155mph...the unlimited black series hits 190mph+ and those will get you looked at in a good way when you pull up to the club and hand the valet the keys.
For me it's ride; I prefer the ride of trucks. It is capability and versatility; I can go anywhere I would want to go, and haul anything I would want to haul, as well as having the space of an SUV on the interior (super cabs/ext cabs, supercrews/quad cabs). They can take a beating and keep on ticking. The F250 I would build & price if I could, would cost $38-39k, those 60k trucks have all that tech I do not want and will take the shit down the road (those tail lights with cameras and sensors in them cost around a grand, f*ck that non-sense). If someone/a buddy is stuck in the snow, mud, etc. and they have a mid size to a large vehicle, you are not pulling them out with a small truck/suv/crossover/car. Just not happening. I have seen half tons and three quarter tons pull semi's up an off ramp in crappy snowy and icy weather. Try that with a Wrangler or Tacoma. In the end it boils down to each their own and what suits their needs and wants. Though a nice luxury car for cruising would be nice.
Why do you guys like full size American trucks over the more reliable, less expensive, better looking, easier to navigate, more classy Tacoma?
Taco can't pull my 28 ft sled trailer, haul cows, or pull 16 bales on a 7000lb trailer weighing 2050 each.
Eurodriver
09-20-16, 09:25
Taco can't pull my 28 ft sled trailer, haul cows, or pull 16 bales on a 7000lb trailer 2150 weighing 2050 each.
What's a bale?
I have seen half tons and three quarter tons pull semi's up an off ramp in crappy snowy and icy weather. Try that with a Wrangler or Tacoma.
What is icy weather?
;)
I edited my post because I realized most of you actually use your full size trucks as full size trucks, which I didn't think would be the case when I opened my big mouth. Around here, dudes and ladies with big ass trucks drive big ass trucks because they want to drive big ass trucks. There is no ice. There are no bales. When I say big ass trucks, I am talking about ones bigger than the standard F150/Sierra/Ram model - the big ass diesels. That is who my question was geared toward - I've never met anyone with a big ass F250 diesel who actually hauled anything :no:
I edited my post because I realized most of you actually use your full size trucks as full size trucks, which I didn't think would be the case when I opened my big mouth. Around here, dudes and ladies with big ass trucks drive big ass trucks because they want to drive big ass trucks. There is no ice. There are no bales. When I say big ass trucks, I am talking about ones bigger than the standard F150/Sierra/Ram model - the big ass diesels. That is who my question was geared toward - I've never met anyone with a big ass F250 diesel who actually hauled anything :no:
Yeah I do not understand the whole giant lifted diesel thing. There are quite a few out here and they are always clean and shiny, and they ride on those low a** profile mud tires with rims too wide for the tire with a ridiculous offset that pushes them almost fully out of the wheel well. Dumbest and most useless set-up. If they like it so be it, but the wheels would be crap off road and the stance of the truck is too wide for any trails. They sit too high to haul or pull anything. Their lifts are always those budget po-dank lifts. If I had a 250 it would be a Icon coil over conversion stage 4 on 34's or 35's. Would not be much higher than stock but ride 10x better.
Our farm truck is a 03 Silverado extended cab 2500 (3/4 ton) with 78K miles. No matter if you are just driving down the interstate on towing 15,000lbs, you get 11mpg. Its the 6.0lt Vortec. My daily driver is a 03 GMC Yukon XL with the 5.3lt woth 159,000 miles. Never done anything but oil changes and tires. Gonna need a wheel bearing soon and AC recharge but other than that it's a dwmn good truck. The 99 to 06 GM trucks have proven to be the best they ever produced. Some guys around here have 300,000+ miles with standard maintenance.
The Dart I bought in 2013 brand new has been the same way, damn reliable its got the 2.0 tigershark that I dont think they even offer anymore. Wife drives that as when we first met a year after I bought it she was driving a POS Mitsubishi SUV. Was not going to let her haul her then 1 year old around in. She sold it and the motor blew 2 weeks later on that SUV.
Epic right there.
My idea of a great Friday night these days is both boys in bed by 9 and me drooling on the couch by 9:30 lol. If the critters let me sleep till 8 on Saturday morning things are even better.
Averageman
09-20-16, 10:04
I haven't hauled Livestock or Hay since High School in like 1979.
I'm pretty happy with my Tacoma. I put a Shell on the back so my guns are secure to and from the range and they ride in hard cases under a platform I built and carpeted. Pretty much you wont know it is there if you are trying to look through the tinted windows of the shell.
I also upgraded the lock on the tailgate so it actually locks now.
Tacoma's aren't bad for what they are, they are an SUV with a truck bed attached.
A hay bale
http://desertridgefarms.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/picture-of-bale.jpg
Eurodriver
09-20-16, 11:03
I thought those things came in circles?
That's what shape they are whenever I am overtaking them on the way to the gun range.
brickboy240
09-20-16, 11:36
The Taco has a tiny narrow bed and a dinky back seat. Real-sized people cannot sit in that back seat for very long and I cannot fit my ATV in the narrow bed of the Taco...sorry!
Besides, I have found the GMC/Chevy full size trucks to be pretty damned reliable.
Averageman
09-20-16, 11:42
I thought those things came in circles?
That's what shape they are whenever I am overtaking them on the way to the gun range.
In Texas we can't use the round bales, you have to feed your Cattle a square meal.
I thought those things came in circles?
That's what shape they are whenever I am overtaking them on the way to the gun range.
Some do, but out here the most common is the 6 foot by 8 foot cube/square bale. They are preferred because the prairie wind doesn't roll them onto a neighbors property, perhaps taking a section of four-strand with it. When I was a kid we used to get paid 2 cents a bale to 'buck' them. You get some strength for football bucking your standard 6 x8 bale.
ETA: this was supposed to humorous - the perspective of that picture a couple posts ago made the bale look huge - at least to me
brickboy240
09-20-16, 11:50
My parents have always bailed their hay in round bales. In S. Central Texas, the wind is not that strong..I guess. This is outside LaGrange in Fayette County. Round bales are the most common form we see.
WickedWillis
09-20-16, 11:50
In Texas we can't use the round bales, you have to feed your Cattle a square meal.
That's interesting. Typically cattle get round because they can digest properly, and horses get square because they are sensitive hippies.
Some do, but out here the most common is the 6 foot by 8 foot cube/square bale. They are preferred because the prairie wind doesn't roll them onto a neighbors property, perhaps taking a section of four-strand with it. When I was a kid we used to get paid 2 cents a bale to 'buck' them. You get some strength for football bucking your standard 6 x8 bale.
Main reason 3x4 and 4x4 hay bales are square is for transport and storage. Hauling round ones on semis don't work for shit. Square ones stack like blocks
Round ones take less horsepower to make. Plus they unroll when you cut wrap on them. Ones an on farm setup. The other is a mass production setup.
Why do you guys like full size American trucks over the more reliable, less expensive, better looking, easier to navigate, more classy Tacoma?
And because of this...
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160920/2a4870779cd652d4242e335de59bdee8.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160920/22d7e190ad08d2afd594c8b1fe626249.jpg
Yeah I do not understand the whole giant lifted diesel thing. There are quite a few out here and they are always clean and shiny, and they ride on those low a** profile mud tires with rims too wide for the tire with a ridiculous offset that pushes them almost fully out of the wheel well.
No accounting for taste, those are just silly.
And Euro is right, the AMG would be a better pick for folks not really needing a truck. But it'd have problems going down my driveway, though stick w124 and w126s do not.
I paid $31k otd for my 03 ram 3500 quad cab, 4x4, Cummings ho diesel. Optioned zackly as I wanted it, locker rear end, Etc.
Same truck would be over $60k now, and I'd have a very hard time paying it. And for my purposes the newer ones are less roadworthy. (More HP, worse mileage)
Interesting how a Dodge Dart post turned into a pretty darned good truck thread.
Sorry OP, I blame myself for the side trip. But I think it turned out pretty good regardless.
Well, live and learn. Sounds like I got hosed back then. If I had known these were unnecessary or massively overpriced repairs I probably would have kept the truck 1-2 years longer, though not more because of advances in airbags and stuff. We replaced it with a Chevy crew cab, gas.
Since it sounds I got ripped off there, the other issue that might have involved them was with my 07 Suburban, where I had them do a routine transmission fluid change. The transmission in the 07 Suburban requires what was then GM's latest fluid, and I asked the shop several times to be sure they installed it, and I was charged for it. Two months later the transmission started working roughly, so I took it to the dealer, who reported that they thought it had the wrong ATF, but the dealer was willing to fix it anyway - still under the powertrain warranty.
So you two are mechanics. How do I find an honest independent shop? This place that hosed me seemed good in all ways, and the owner was the cousin of our next door neighbor, a professional farmer who we were on good terms with and seemed honest. What do I look for to find a good and honest mechanic?
How do you find a good shop? Well, that is a very hard answer. The real answer is that there is no easy answer.
Best answer is to do the work yourself. I know that's not a practical answer for some guys, but it's the truth. It's very very hard to find a good shop. Most of them are filled with Jack wagons that could care less, and they're owned by Jack wagons too.
They are out there. It's a lot like finding a good gun shop. It takes time and you have to look, but in the end it's worth it.
I guess my best advice is to try to be an informed consumer. Do your homework and be sure to ask questions. If they won't answer your questions, or take time to explain things to you, chances are you don't want them working on your stuff either. Be really clear on what you want done, discuss a bid price, and if you need, get bids from other shops also. Have things fairly set and then make it adjthey have to call and authorize anything above and beyond with you. If they treat you like shit, just walk away. If they act line they don't want the business, walk away.
Ask other people who they use. Not every place is qualified to repair everything. There are some great techs out there working out off random places. One of the best diesel shops in the Boise area right now is a guy that retired out of a dealership because he got tired of their crap and started his own deal. He's been giving them nothing but fits becuase he does excellent work for about half the price.
Google is your friend. Use it as much as your can when trying to figure out what needs to be done.
Forums are an excellent source of information. There's a lot of BS there, but they're also some great info to.
On your suburban, that was just them being negligent if they used the wrong fluid. I know there was a spec change there's somewhere along the way with dexron mercon, I can't remember exactly the cut off, but that's their job to know.
The information is out there. Hell, most the time it says right on the dipstick or lid exactly what they need in there. Except for cooling. Just about everything with everybody uses garbage with the exception of the straight OAT coolants. OEMs do that so they get to get a few more services in there trying to sell their hybrid BS. It's no secret that the newer cars are built better, mainly because of all the computer modelling in place and the better fitment of CNC parts. They try to make extra money somehow.
Good luck.
No accounting for taste, those are just silly.
And Euro is right, the AMG would be a better pick for folks not really needing a truck. But it'd have problems going down my driveway, though stick w124 and w126s do not.
I paid $31k otd for my 03 ram 3500 quad cab, 4x4, Cummings ho diesel. Optioned zackly as I wanted it, locker rear end, Etc.
Same truck would be over $60k now, and I'd have a very hard time paying it. And for my purposes the newer ones are less roadworthy. (More HP, worse mileage)
inflation is a bitch ain't it.
I got mine for what I consider a reasonable price for the capability. it's nothing fancy though. 4x4 tradesman with the chrome package, comfort package and 5 inch infotainment display. right at $42k out the door.
I coulda bought a fancier one but with 2 small boys it's just asking to get screwed up. bout had to kill my oldest as it is, caught him wanting to beat the truck with a mallet last night while I was changing fuel filters
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They need to stop screwing with the classics...
My first car was a '74 Dodge Dart, 318, atuo, A/C, and then I installed some 6x9s and an equalizer in it; it rocked.
Edited because I was talking about big ass dualie-type trucks, not the standard F150-sized truck. Those full size 4x4 pickups are easily $50k. Some dudes spend $65k. That's 2017 AMG C63 Benz money :cool: 3.9sec 0-60, 469hp biturbo V8, top speed limited to 155mph...the unlimited black series hits 190mph+ and those will get you looked at in a good way when you pull up to the club and hand the valet the keys.
http://images.car.bauercdn.com/pagefiles/21208/amg_c63_coupe_7.jpg
You're thinking isn't wrong there Euro. You are right, some of these trucks to cost very similar to what high end cars cost. It is quite insane.
Makes it a real challenge for a guy like me that doesn't exactly have a ton of money. And has to actually use his truck. Maybe one of these days I'll get a real job that pays well and has benefits.
All I've ever really wanted to do was farm. The dream is very slowly starting to slip away from me. Just got word today that my uncle is selling his Dairy. I went out of business earlier this year. I'm beginning to feel like my family that I now work for is second-guessing their position in life also and that a game is going to come to a close for me sooner than I probably realize.
I am like the 1% truck owner though. My preferred option list is power windows, power locks, tint all the way around, a power seat, manual 4 wheel drive, manual transmission, cloth seats, plastic floors. Folding center console that makes a seat, because heavenforbid you actually have to have 6 people in the pickup. Rear Air bags for towing, a $70 Tekonsha brake controller, and a B&W hitch.
A Blue tooth radio world be nice. But that's about it. How many guys are there like me that by Low option trucks, and never take him in to get serviced? Probably not very many.
People like things that are high end and nice, that's why you see soccer moms driving platinum edition Ford Super Dutys around to get groceries. Can't blame the OEMs. I'm sure it's really good business for them selling them that type of vehicle that takes so much maintenance and parts are so expensive. Just injectors or turbo on that truck almost pays for a complete engine for most vehicles.
No doubt trucks are a flexible vehicle. You can do a lot with them. $3,000 turbo swaps have a way of taking the wind out of everyone's sails there once outside of the warranty period. So for most, the best solution to just go buy another truck. They can't justify the cost of the potential upkeep, but they can justify the cost of the monthly payment.
Plus the turbo sounds cool. Everyone likes how the turbo sound on them. Vroom vroom.
I am completely with you though. If you're going to spend that kind of money, why not drive something that's really awesome. Like a ZL1 Camaro, as an AMG, or something like that. Something a guy has to have a plastic spatula so that he can scrape all of the panties that get flung at it off without dicking up the paint.
Google is your friend. Use it as much as your can when trying to figure out what needs to be done.
.
This. If you're having an issue, odds are someone else has had the same issue and had to the do the same repair. These days Mr. Google makes it easy to find.
Even if you're not going to do the work yourself, understand what goes into it as far as parts and process. I've been wrenching since I was old enough for my dad to drag me to the garage and there's still a lot of stuff I don't want to tackle for one reason or another. Either it's just not worth my time or I don't have the time. I make darn sure I know how its done before I roll into a shop though.
Quick example is I had some free oil changes with my truck. Used the last one at the dealer close to work instead of where I bought because it was more convenient. I just asked what the price would be if I paid, because getting to the oil filter is a hassle. They quoted me $120 because my truck was required to use synthetic. I'm not darkening their doorway again because I know that's BS. Owners manual specs plain old Rotella 15W-40 if you're operating above 0*F.
The dealer that sold me the truck was honest about that and will sell me 2 oil changes for $145. 3 gallons of rotella plus a filter will run me $60, maybe a little less if the oil is on sale. Not worth $12.50 of my time to get out there and wrassle with the oil filter.
This. If you're having an issue, odds are someone else has had the same issue and had to the do the same repair. These days Mr. Google makes it easy to find.
Even if you're not going to do the work yourself, understand what goes into it as far as parts and process. I've been wrenching since I was old enough for my dad to drag me to the garage and there's still a lot of stuff I don't want to tackle for one reason or another. Either it's just not worth my time or I don't have the time. I make darn sure I know how its done before I roll into a shop though.
Quick example is I had some free oil changes with my truck. Used the last one at the dealer close to work instead of where I bought because it was more convenient. I just asked what the price would be if I paid, because getting to the oil filter is a hassle. They quoted me $120 because my truck was required to use synthetic. I'm not darkening their doorway again because I know that's BS. Owners manual specs plain old Rotella 15W-40 if you're operating above 0*F.
The dealer that sold me the truck was honest about that and will sell me 2 oil changes for $145. 3 gallons of rotella plus a filter will run me $60, maybe a little less if the oil is on sale. Not worth $12.50 of my time to get out there and wrassle with the oil filter.
They prey on the uniformed.
My mother-in-law has been getting the axle serviced in her 3rd gen dodge every 15,000 miles, just like the manual says. To the tune of like a hundred and something dollars each time. She couldn't believe me that it wasn't needed. That often. Manual says so right?
So it actually came time to do mine. I have change the axle fluid on my truck a total of 3x in a hundred eighty thousand miles. Guess what, the fluid still came out practically clear. Ut done in a jar to shore her.
They use the synthetic gl5 Lube in there. It's a long life as hell. Used to go quarter million miles on a similar fluid in semis. Warrantied even on that.
I told her, dealerships want to make their money somehow. They're not necessarily out there for you all the time.
Like you said Nova, it pays to be informed.
inflation is a bitch ain't it.
I got mine for what I consider a reasonable price for the capability. it's nothing fancy though. 4x4 tradesman with the chrome package, comfort package and 5 inch infotainment display. right at $42k out the door.
I coulda bought a fancier one but with 2 small boys it's just asking to get screwed up. bout had to kill my oldest as it is, caught him wanting to beat the truck with a mallet last night while I was changing fuel filters
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My 2 year old dumped out a box of new dorman exhaust manifold bolts last week when I was installing a BD pulse manifold on mine.
Lol.... I can relate. I told him and his older brother that I was going to haul them to the fire department and leave them there. Let them go terrorize someone else.
I pulled into the fire station the next day. The 5 year old turned white.....lol.... Sorry dad, sorry dad. Don't leave us here....lol....
They prey on the uniformed.
My mother-in-law has been getting the axle serviced in her 3rd gen dodge every 15,000 miles, just like the manual says. To the tune of like a hundred and something dollars each time. She couldn't believe me that it wasn't needed. That often. Manual says so right?
So it actually came time to do mine. I have change the axle fluid on my truck a total of 3x in a hundred eighty thousand miles. Guess what, the fluid still came out practically clear. Ut done in a jar to shore her.
They use the synthetic gl5 Lube in there. It's a long life as hell. Used to go quarter million miles on a similar fluid in semis. Warrantied even on that.
I told her, dealerships want to make their money somehow. They're not necessarily out there for you all the time.
Like you said Nova, it pays to be informed.
Yeah they do. I've been shocked at the maintenance intervals on one of the items that really can benefit from fresh fluid, namely automatic transmissions. The fresher the anti-gumming and friction modifier additives are the better off you'll be from a wear and function perspective. I've seen some intervals stretching to nearly 100k. My truck specs 60k but I'll probably do mine at 50k.
GL5 Differential oil in likelihood has infinite life given the service environment unless you crap a gear. The 250k intervals you mention on semis are probably as much to check for wear as the fluid needs replacement.
My 2 year old dumped out a box of new dorman exhaust manifold bolts last week when I was installing a BD pulse manifold on mine.
Lol.... I can relate. I told him and his older brother that I was going to haul them to the fire department and leave them there. Let them go terrorize someone else.
I pulled into the fire station the next day. The 5 year old turned white.....lol.... Sorry dad, sorry dad. Don't leave us here....lol....
My dump out casualty of the night was my box of impact sockets. No idea why he decided to pull those out but all I hear is a crash followed by sockets everywhere....
Dodge is also killing the Viper after 2017. I doubt the Hellcat models will last much longer either and I'm skeptical if FCA will last into the 2020's.
Toyota killed Scion last month too.
My first car was a '74 Dodge Dart, 318, atuo, A/C, and then I installed some 6x9s and an equalizer in it; it rocked.
I've got a '73 Swinger. It still has the factory AM radio, but the built 360, reverse manual valve body 727 and 8 3/4 suregrip rear end make up for the lack of music.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/tuckinauster/Dart/04E5F668-4DF0-42DA-A87A-A8A2AADFB4AB_zps9we2eomg.jpg (http://s197.photobucket.com/user/tuckinauster/media/Dart/04E5F668-4DF0-42DA-A87A-A8A2AADFB4AB_zps9we2eomg.jpg.html)
They prey on the uniformed.
My mother-in-law has been getting the axle serviced in her 3rd gen dodge every 15,000 miles, just like the manual says. To the tune of like a hundred and something dollars each time. She couldn't believe me that it wasn't needed. That often. Manual says so right?
So it actually came time to do mine. I have change the axle fluid on my truck a total of 3x in a hundred eighty thousand miles. Guess what, the fluid still came out practically clear. Ut done in a jar to shore her.
They use the synthetic gl5 Lube in there. It's a long life as hell. Used to go quarter million miles on a similar fluid in semis. Warrantied even on that.
I told her, dealerships want to make their money somehow. They're not necessarily out there for you all the time.
Like you said Nova, it pays to be informed.
Differential service at 15k? Holy my truck is like 80k I believe with only on-road driving. Less the more hard you drive it and if you submerge the rear-end often. I did my front and rear when I put my suspension on. Nothing to it.
I've got a '73 Swinger. It still has the factory AM radio, but the built 360, reverse manual valve body 727 and 8 3/4 suregrip rear end make up for the lack of music.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/tuckinauster/Dart/04E5F668-4DF0-42DA-A87A-A8A2AADFB4AB_zps9we2eomg.jpg (http://s197.photobucket.com/user/tuckinauster/media/Dart/04E5F668-4DF0-42DA-A87A-A8A2AADFB4AB_zps9we2eomg.jpg.html)
Nice.
I almost bought a 73 Challenger one time. Looking back, I wished I had.
This was my first and only truck
98 Ram 1500 bought in 03 with 150k. After almost a year of driving it I got tired of paying to feed it. Was great in the snow storm of 04!
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160920/9cac0f72426049a4e2345423e6d769b6.jpg
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SomeOtherGuy
09-20-16, 15:52
How do you find a good shop? Well, that is a very hard answer. The real answer is that there is no easy answer.
Best answer is to do the work yourself. I know that's not a practical answer for some guys, but it's the truth. It's very very hard to find a good shop. Most of them are filled with Jack wagons that could care less, and they're owned by Jack wagons too.
Thanks again. I've done some of my own work but got tired of it, and just don't feel like buying the heavy tools required to do the bigger jobs. My father used to do 99% of his own work and still does a third, but pulled back some after a very close call when a rented spring compressor shattered on him while changing shocks. He wasn't hurt, but 4" difference and it would have been bad.
I used to do my own oil changes but for a while I had two vehicles that were nearly impossible to do cleanly - the Dodge with its coffee-can oil filter surrounded by 3 feet of hot stuff, and the Suburban with the side-spitting oil drain that always spilled on the floor even with two large catchpans and a sheet of cardboard deflector. Anyway... I have a good paper understanding of most car things, but limited tolerance for busting my knuckles or spending all weekend when things don't go well, so I hire the work out pretty much all the time now. I may reconsider though. I do 100% of my firearms stuff because I trust myself more and don't feel like paying someone else to do a job that I will probably do better and more carefully myself. The more I think about this, the more I think I should go back to doing my own auto work.
Keep a back up rig if one goes down. That helps with timeframes.
Chunks of cardboard or old carpet work well. Epoxy sealing your garage is really nice. You can wipe oil up with a paper towel that way.
It drives me bonkers when you pay for work and it's done wrong. Or not at all.
I had a dealership smear anerobic grease around the inspection cover, to "seal" up an input shaft leak. Not a single bolt was pulled. Truck was 2 weeks old.
So I take photos. Drive back there, say wtf? And I already took photos, and I have the phone number of who I need to speak to at chrysler for your dealerships fraud (see they turn the claim into the OEM. They pay the dealer for the work, that never happened..so free money. I've worked in a few dealerships. Kinda know how the game works.)
Service writer shit goose...... They had that truck done in four hours.....lol...
That dealer is gone now. A holes......
41566
There are some really cool cars out there...I decided to go with some American Muscle. This one is in the same price range & is said to go 3.5sec. This is becoming worse than waiting for class III crap to clear.
Sorry, gotta click on the thumb...I'm a pc doofus with pics sometimes.
Edited because I was talking about big ass dualie-type trucks, not the standard F150-sized truck. Those full size 4x4 pickups are easily $50k. Some dudes spend $65k. That's 2017 AMG C63 Benz money :cool: 3.9sec 0-60, 469hp biturbo V8, top speed limited to 155mph...the unlimited black series hits 190mph+ and those will get you looked at in a good way when you pull up to the club and hand the valet the keys.
http://images.car.bauercdn.com/pagefiles/21208/amg_c63_coupe_7.jpg
41566
There are some really cool cars out there...I decided to go with some American Muscle. This one is in the same price range & is said to go 3.5sec. This is becoming worse than waiting for class III crap to clear.
Sorry, gotta click on the thumb...I'm a pc doofus with pics sometimes.
Oh my....That's awful tight..... Buddy of mine is suppose to have his 14' zl1 show up beginning of October......I can't hardly wait.
you guys are making me sick now. had an acute case of "responsible adult" and traded my 2010 SS in on a grocery getter just before my oldest son was born :(
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Oh my....That's awful tight..... Buddy of mine is suppose to have his 14' zl1 show up beginning of October......I can't hardly wait.
Yeah, you can only order the standard right now & almost bit down on it but decided to give up my allocation for the 10 speed...my order date will likely be Nov-Dec with delivery in the spring. Ugghhhh......they say the standard will do 0-60 in first gear. Amazing!! 650hp/650torque!!
Did your buddy get the carbon fiber hood??
cougar_guy04
09-20-16, 20:39
I feel exactly the same way about the front wheel drive progression & think you will end up liking the RT...mine is RWD in the Limited. The 5.7 has been a good motor & pretty easy to wake up with mods if you don't want to worry about the warrantee issues. The 8 speed tranny is solid & I'm getting about 22-23mpg on the hwy. going about 80. I goose it too much scooting around in town to give you a good mpg there. The guys over at dodgedurango.net were helpful when I looked into the mods. A lot of the guys up north get the AWD for obvious reasons, but had no real need for it where I live. Good luck.
Yeah, I originally thought AWD but RWD makes sense for living in AL. Snow isn't a big consideration when the entire state shuts down for flurries and full on loses their $#!t for 6-8", so I'd be parked if snow was a consideration.
Family still lives up in Illinois/Indiana, so the regular winter trips might make the AWD worth it (or at least good winter tires).
Buddy had a Magnum with the 5.7 and it could get up and go with authority. 23mpg on sounds tempting too, my explorer doesn't get that unless I'm cruising at 65 or so. The mileage on the Explorer has left me a bit less than impressed.
I'm a big fan of the 3.5 Ecoboost. The Gen2 coming out as we speak fixes the only real problem with the motor which was carbon build up on the intake valves. That and it now makes 375 HP and 470 tq.
I'm a fan of the 3.5 EB, test drove an F150 with the 3.5 and it was nice. A 375hp/470ft-lb twin turbo grocery getter sounds fun . . . I just wish Ford would power the right wheels. The 290 hp and FWD can get a little sporty when you pin the throttle, can't imagine an extra 85 on top of that (even with AWD it's still primarily front biased).
Yeah, you can only order the standard right now & almost bit down on it but decided to give up my allocation for the 10 speed...my order date will likely be Nov-Dec with delivery in the spring. Ugghhhh......they say the standard will do 0-60 in first gear. Amazing!! 650hp/650torque!!
Did your buddy get the carbon fiber hood??
Not sure? I know it's grey, and ****ing awesome....... And a zl1......That's about it.
2-3 weeks more he said.
I'll bet that ten speed if yours is going to be pimp.
you guys are making me sick now. had an acute case of "responsible adult" and traded my 2010 SS in on a grocery getter just before my oldest son was born :(
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What were you thinking? No no no. Grocery getter? The SS gets groceries just fine, plus, you can do full smoke shows after you load up your eggs and steaks.
Responsible adult.....ppffftt.... That's just crazy talk. If anything, selling it was irresponsible.
I'm scared...... I have a feeling my midlife crisis is going to show up way early.....
Not sure? I know it's grey, and ****ing awesome....... And a zl1......That's about it.
2-3 weeks more he said.
I'll bet that ten speed if yours is going to be pimp.
There had better be pics in this thread when it comes in
Let me rephrase. Stop screwing with the legacy of the classic era.
They've trashed every car they've tried to remake, except maybe the z28.
I disagree. The Challenger came across VERY WELL, IMO, as did the T-Bird. Unfortunately, the T-bird was overpriced and never sold well (newer model). The Prowler was sexy as hell, but the 6-cylinder kindof queered the deal. The Mustang in 2004 (as a 2005 model) had amazing sale numbers. The Charger has done great as well, but the Challenger looks much more true to its roots, visually,even though they share the same platform (along with the 300).
you guys are making me sick now. had an acute case of "responsible adult" and traded my 2010 SS in on a grocery getter just before my oldest son was born :(
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Meh, the 2010's were...meh. My 370Z and 2001 Trans Am were pretty equivalent to them. Underpowered pigs. The 2015+ models are sexy as hell and getting it done in the performance department, though!
I hear you on "responsible adult". My laundry list of cars went 1995 Trams Am, built 1988 mustang GT, 2001 WS.6, 2011 Z06, 2012 370Z, and now I drive a CX-5 Mazda CUV. Why? It's AWD, it SIPS regular 87 octane, and I'm buying a house. I'll supplement with a Viper or SRT8 Jeep later, after the beater is paid off.
Seriously though, drive a 2015, it will make you forget the 2010.
There had better be pics in this thread when it comes in
Can do. It's manual also......so yeah. At least I get to live vicariously though friends....lol. Can't wait to drive it.
Meh, the 2010's were...meh. My 370Z and 2001 Trans Am were pretty equivalent to them. Underpowered pigs. The 2015+ models are sexy as hell and getting it done in the performance department, though!
I hear you on "responsible adult". My laundry list of cars went 1995 Trams Am, built 1988 mustang GT, 2001 WS.6, 2011 Z06, 2012 370Z, and now I drive a CX-5 Mazda CUV. Why? It's AWD, it SIPS regular 87 octane, and I'm buying a house. I'll supplement with a Viper or SRT8 Jeep later, after the beater is paid off.
Seriously though, drive a 2015, it will make you forget the 2010.
they weren't what they could have been but I loved that car anyway. I drove a 94 6 banger all through HS and college and it took me back to those days, just with more power. if I could have figured out a way to cram a car seat in the back I would have kept it. as it was we had 3 vehicles only 1 of which would fit the whole family.
whenever I get my shop built I'm going to find a 1st Gen to restore with my boys when they get older.
eta
and the whole reason I haven't driven a new one is I know I'd want one badly. better not to tempt myself.
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What were you thinking? No no no. Grocery getter? The SS gets groceries just fine, plus, you can do full smoke shows after you load up your eggs and steaks.
Responsible adult.....ppffftt.... That's just crazy talk. If anything, selling it was irresponsible.
I'm scared...... I have a feeling my midlife crisis is going to show up way early.....
I told the wife when I traded it that I was doing the responsible thing now, but that I WOULD have another one when the kids were out of car seats and there WOULD NOT be any argument about it.
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I told the wife when I traded it that I was doing the responsible thing now, but that I WOULD have another one when the kids were out of car seats and there WOULD NOT be any argument about it.
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Nice.
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