Best Wonder Nine and Why? [Archive]

crusader377

09-20-16, 22:04

This thread and poll is pretty self-explanatory. What is the best wonder nine (metal framed, double stack, semi-auto, available in the 1980s) and why (No Glocks Please)? The choices are the following:

1) Beretta 92
2) Browning Hi Power, I know the Browning pre-dates the rest of these pistols but the hi power especially in its mark 3 version was still a very viable pistol during the 1980s
3) CZ-75
4) HK P7M13
5) Sig P226
6) Smith & Wesson third generation autos (5904, 5906, etc..)
7) Other

anatolian B

09-20-16, 22:08

Hi-Power
Reason: Ergo

Icedaddy56

09-20-16, 22:13

Glock 17. Capacity,durability and price point

crusader377

09-20-16, 22:22

My vote was the Beretta 92.

Best combination of the following: sales success, upgradability, consistent manufacture quality, service longevity, and upgraded versions such as M9A3 and 92G-SD are ahead of peers in overall performance.

Very Close 2nd, 3rd, and 4th: Browning, SIG, and CZ in no particular order.

26 Inf

09-20-16, 22:26

For most of the 80's you couldn't have pried the Smith out of my hand. In my perspective today I'd rank it second to last (I added Ruger as 'other') although way ahead of the HKP7M13.

CZ75, Sig 226, Beretta 92, Browning, Smith 59, Ruger P85/P89, HKP7

Like Crusader, numbers two through four were hard for me to order.

arbninftry

09-20-16, 22:30

G17 then the 19 in the 1990s.
Concealable, shootable.
They have taken some hits lately but the Glocks in 9mm are still better than the others. Lots of parts out there too. Shoot it from the box or mod it, dealers choice. Tactical Tupperware and people in the 80s really believed you could walk through a metal detector with one.

crusader377

09-20-16, 22:40

I'm not telling other members they can't vote for a Glock in the other section but my intent was to really look at the best metal framed, high capacity pistols pre-Glock.

Doc Safari

09-20-16, 22:55

I'm not telling other members they can't vote for a Glock in the other section but my intent was to really look at the best metal framed, high capacity pistols pre-Glock.

Unfortunately we live in a Glock-dominated world. To ignore it is like saying, "Which animal at the zoo is the largest--and don't say elephant."

Glock is the elephant in the room.

arbninftry

09-21-16, 01:01

Unfortunately we live in a Glock-dominated world. To ignore it is like saying, "Which animal at the zoo is the largest--and don't say elephant."

Glock is the elephant in the room.
It was also an 80s era wonder nine.

AppalachianThunder

09-21-16, 01:31

I voted CZ75. I like the grip, and the trigger on my sample of one is pretty darn good. I also think it's a good looking pistol, and having the slide ride inside the frame is unique(I think).

Pilot1

09-21-16, 04:07

I voted CZ75. I like the grip, and the trigger on my sample of one is pretty darn good. I also think it's a good looking pistol, and having the slide ride inside the frame is unique(I think).

I voted CZ-75 also. I have a Browning Hi Power MK III (still relevant today), Beretta 92FS, and the HK P7, although not an M13. The CZ borrowed from the venerable Sig P210 who also has the rails inside the frame. For me the CZ grip and trigger reach fit me the best, and it is a very accurate pistols, as are the others, but for me just a tad better.

Fordtough25

09-21-16, 08:07

I voted Beretta 92 since that's what the poll was asking. It was then and is still now a popular pistol, and it seems to be steaming back to the top with the Wilson and new Beretta offerings. I've always had one and still do, and really enjoy shooting it as well! I do carry a G19 though and have for years, hard to beat it in weight,function,and capacity per size. The rest don't matter to me much, I do have an older P229 that I really like but that's as close as I get to the rest of the list. :)

KalashniKEV

09-21-16, 08:33

Some of you guys are choosing incorrectly... here, let me help you out:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/Kalashnikev/Pistols/20150726_170705-1_zps9gup9d5k.jpg (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Kalashnikev/media/Pistols/20150726_170705-1_zps9gup9d5k.jpg.html)

MegademiC

09-21-16, 08:38

Cz 75. Best mix of shootability, reliability and concealability.

The92 is too fat for cc imo, for most.

I just don't like sigs, although they are great guns, they don't shoot well for me, so it's a preference thing.

sasquatchoslav

09-21-16, 08:42

Unfortunately we live in a Glock-dominated world. To ignore it is like saying, "Which animal at the zoo is the largest--and don't say elephant."

Glock is the elephant in the room.

Up until about 10 years ago my Sigs were still my favorite. Then I finally gave Glock a fair run and it's all I've carried since. I still own 3 of the handguns on the list and like them all, but my 19 and 17 are my favorite and go to for everything.

crusader377

09-21-16, 10:41

Thinking about my original thread more, Although I would still favor the Beretta 92 as number one, 2-4 is a little more clear. I think the CZ-75 is a very close second, with the Browning and SIG a bit behind. My reasoning for putting the CZ above the Browning and Sig is like the Beretta the CZ has been developed more while staying consistent or improving on quality over the years. The Browning is a great gun that has had zero development from FN since the Mark III was introduced which was over 25 years ago. The SIG is hampered by limited development and a lowered reputation of quality during the late 2000s. The Gen 3 Smiths and HK are out of production and never really were adopted in the numbers like the previous 4 pistols.

My rating would look like this:

1) Beretta 92
2) CZ 75 very close second
3 and 4) Browning HP and SIG too close to call but further back from 1 and 2.
5) Gen 3 S&W
6) HK P7M13

titsonritz

09-21-16, 13:58

Sig P226 gets my vote, back when there were still making the good one. Great ergos, super reliable & accurate, aluminum frame lightens the load, respectable capacity, no manual safety or any stupid unneeded safeties like mag disconnect or grip safety. But today Glock 19.

kihnspiracy

09-21-16, 14:32

West German made Sig 226. Superbly accurate and reliable.

brickboy240

09-21-16, 15:57

sadmin

09-21-16, 16:08

crusader377

09-21-16, 16:13

Was the Glock 19 intentionally left off this list? If so....why?

It is the glaring hole in the list if you ask me. For its size, weight, shape, cost and performance it is damned hard to beat as a "wonder-nine."

Because the Glock is more of a gun of the 1990s to present. Although, true the Glock was introduced in the mid 1980s it took a few years to catch on and wasn't in widespread military or law enforcement use until the 1990s.

26 Inf

09-21-16, 17:17

Was the Glock 19 intentionally left off this list? If so....why?

It is the glaring hole in the list if you ask me. For its size, weight, shape, cost and performance it is damned hard to beat as a "wonder-nine."

As stated in the first post:

This thread and poll is pretty self-explanatory. What is the best wonder nine (metal framed, double stack, semi-auto, available in the 1980s) and why (No Glocks Please)?

Apparently he didn't want to include any polymer-framed weapons.

ICEMAN550

09-21-16, 17:50

sig p226

arbninftry

09-21-16, 17:55

As stated in the first post:

This thread and poll is pretty self-explanatory. What is the best wonder nine (metal framed, double stack, semi-auto, available in the 1980s) and why (No Glocks Please)?

Apparently he didn't want to include any polymer-framed weapons.
No Glocks was added after a couple of us had mentioned Glocks. It changed about 40 minutes after it was introduced and some had already selected.

daniel87

09-21-16, 18:55

My answer is the one YOU shoot naturally best.

Thread solved. [emoji41] [emoji41]

Right now its the sig 227. Sig 226 frame and a sig 220 upper and a glock 26. Since those are no go i would vote sig 226.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

sevenhelmet

09-21-16, 19:27

I voted for the Sig, it's my favorite in the list. They're all great options though.

Sig P226 gets my vote, back when there were still making the good one. Great ergos, super reliable & accurate, aluminum frame lightens the load, respectable capacity, no manual safety or any stupid unneeded safeties like mag disconnect or grip safety. But today Glock 19.

OK, I'll bite. What's different about the P226 today?

crusader377

09-21-16, 19:31

No Glocks was added after a couple of us had mentioned Glocks. It changed about 40 minutes after it was introduced and some had already selected.

I added No Glocks because people weren't reading my original posting which clearly specified metal framed handguns.

Arik

09-21-16, 19:40

I voted for the Sig, it's my favorite in the list. They're all great options though.

OK, I'll bite. What's different about the P226 today?
There was a decade when quality went kaput

When I think wonder 9s I think what was popular and common in the 80s. Typically steel and hammer fired.

I think the 5906 was the workhorse. They were to semi auto police guns what the S&W model 10 was to revolvers. Heavy and typically reliable. Still used in police departments today

HiPower was the original....and a classic.

Sig and Berretta had a large following

CZ. Not sure how readily available they were.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

The Dumb Gun Collector

09-21-16, 19:48

The most wondrous was the P7M13. At the time the best was probably the Sig 226. The Glock was still a bit of a mess at the time, pre-slam fire recall, etc.

Meta-Prometheus

09-21-16, 20:43

SIG P226 without a doubt. Of that list of pistols, the P226 I think is by far the best overall set of compromises. Unfortunately you can't have everything you want in a pistol. Something is always being given up. Unless of course somebody has synthesized unobtainium in the form of a pistol that I'm not privy to yet!?

Kain

09-21-16, 20:52

The most wondrous was the P7M13. At the time the best was probably the Sig 226. The Glock was still a bit of a mess at the time, pre-slam fire recall, etc.

Gonna pretty much agree. For me the most interesting, and desirable would be the P7M13, I had a P7M8 and would love to had the larger capacity brother in my safe. The P7M10 I wouldn't refuse if given, but that damn boat anchor isn't something I seek out. After that a P226 is dam nice shooting. Following that, the M9/92 series is really hard to beat, and as was mentioned pretty consistent over the years, wouldn't mind another one, or three in the safe with everything else. I have an old 92SB that I have pissed guys off with it shoots so nice. Glocks, well I don't really seem to remember seeing them get big until the 2000s, at least that was when I really started seeing them explode in popularity.

That said, I wouldn't refuse one of every gun mentioned in this thread so far. :)

crusader377

09-21-16, 23:21

I posted this thread because of interest in the recent thread regarding the CZ-75 vs Beretta 92. It is a testament to there respective designs that both pistols are having a comeback 40 years after first introduction. Furthermore the mid 70s had to be one of the most productive decades in pistol designs considering the CZ 75, Beretta 92, and the SIG P220 series were all introduced within about a year of each other in 1975-76. Furthermore all three pistols were the first pistols that matched and perhaps exceeded the Hi-Power in overall effectiveness. The Hi Power really was the gold standard among 9mm for about 30 years and sort of was the Glock 17/19 of its day.

shooter100

09-22-16, 02:14

P-226, 1980's era. It had excellent DA and SA trigger pulls and was match accurate for a service pistol. One gun I wish I wouldn't have sold. G-19 now...

yoni

09-22-16, 05:14

Dumb me. I voted before I read the first post, I voted other, thinking CZ P09.

Then I read the first post so my vote goes for Hi Power

sasquatchoslav

09-22-16, 06:05

P-226, 1980's era. It had excellent DA and SA trigger pulls and was match accurate for a service pistol. One gun I wish I wouldn't have sold. G-19 now...

When did you sell it? What did you get for it if you don't mind? I have one I will sell you:no: Kidding I'd never sell it, but I've had some offers for it over the years that made me do a double take. Even at this stage where it sits in a safe 365 days in favor of 17/19 I'm not letting that one go it was the first firearm I ever purchased

pinzgauer

09-22-16, 07:17

Because the Glock is more of a gun of the 1990s to present. Although, true the Glock was introduced in the mid 1980s it took a few years to catch on and wasn't in widespread military or law enforcement use until the 1990s.

They were not even setup to sell in the US until '86 or so. And were not really in civvy gunships until much later after some LEO wins. So they were a 90s phenomenon for sure, though they started to take off in 89 or so.

Likewise, it took some education and LEO usage before the poly frame was really accepted. Remember, the only other poly frame when the Glock was introduced in the US was the KG-9 and the rarely seen HK VP-70.

The most wondrous was the P7M13. At the time the best was probably the Sig 226. The Glock was still a bit of a mess at the time, pre-slam fire recall, etc.

People don't understand that wondernine was a term used in the industry to describe the batch of pistols which were developed for the Army JSSAP/XM9 competition. (Glock was not ready to compete, btw)

Double stack, double action, metal frame. And typically more compact than a 1911, though not what'd we now call a compact.

It's a "term of art"... Just like muscle car implies an era and group of cars with certain characteristics. You can have modern muscle cars... But without the qualifier people would normally think early 60s-mid 70s.

The HK P7 probably was the most desired, but the 226 was the most developed and accessible, at a reasonable price.

pinzgauer

09-22-16, 07:20

Forgot to add, the CZ75 was intriguing as Cooper advocated for them. But they were not available for quite some time (import restrictions?) And once they surfaced, they were very expensive. The CZ clones had not hit yet.

Ron3

09-22-16, 07:35

misfit47

09-22-16, 09:22

The smith 5906 and Beretta m92 were twhe most prolific that I saw.

specopsscout

09-22-16, 09:39

Other; Walther PPQ
I Love my P7M13, but it heats up fast, and is a little thick around the middle; even more so with the stippled wood grips.

Lefty223

09-22-16, 10:50

Easy ... CZ-75B, heck you can BUY TWO for the price of 1 Sig! Paid only $450 for mine w/ tritium night sights, high cap mags and a ready-to-fit Kadet 22LR conversion slide w/ two 10-round mags. The 9mm is very accurate, while in 22 rimfire dress, it is almost as accurate as my S&W model 41!

Here's the real test ... put any of those metal/hi-cap 9mms in the hands of new shooters and ALL will shoot well w/ the CZ, hands down.

Glocks are off-topic, but at shoots I've seen far TOO MANY out of battery ka-booms (due tomrelaods) for me to EVER spend a dime on one ... your mileage may vary.

titsonritz

09-22-16, 11:37

OK, I'll bite. What's different about the P226 today?
Ron Cohen

clarkz71

09-22-16, 12:34

This thread and poll is pretty self-explanatory.
What is the best wonder nine (metal framed, double stack, semi-auto, available
in the 1980s) and why (No Glocks Please)?

Glock 17. Capacity,durability and price point

G17 then the 19 in the 1990s.
Concealable, shootable.

I knew right away the OP was talking Steel/alloy guns, not Tupperware. (Metal Frame.....)

I had many on the list, my favorites were the Sig and Beretta

Doc Safari

09-22-16, 13:01

crusader377

09-22-16, 13:41

A question though, for you guys that shoot a lot, and do a lot of training with your Wonder Nines:

Without regard to ergos or looks or any of that happy horseshit--which one is the most durable and reliable?

I own guns representing 4 of the platforms mentioned, a CZ-75, BHP, S&W Gen 3, and Beretta 92 (2). All are great guns but the Beretta have been my only pistol that simply never had any weapon related jam and my older one is the highest round count pistol that I own. That said all of them are very good guns and highly suitable for defensive use.

Coal Dragger

09-22-16, 13:47

When I hear the term "wonder nine" I think of the innovative new ideas for high capacity 9mm duty pistols that were a departure from the traditional 1911 or Hi-Powers. By that I mean wildly different operating systems, manual of arms, and safety features.

With that in mind the HK P7M13 is the epitome of the "wonder nine": delayed gas blow back, squeeze cocking, squeeze slide release after a mag change, super low bore axis, fixed barrel. Plus they were beautifully made, boringly reliable, easy to shoot well, and mechanically accurate. I wish they were still offered for sale.

Gunnar da Wolf

09-22-16, 14:50

I voted for the BHP as it's my favorite from the era but it's not what I think of as a Wondernine or as Jeff Cooper called them "Crunchntickers". The DA/SA pistols with the large capacity magazines that came out in response to LEO movement away from revolvers in the mid 80's to early 90's. Of the true Wondernine breed my favorite is the SIG P226 but some people just can't learn the DA/SA shuffle.

When the Wondernines proved to be less than satisfactory for mere mortal shooters the Glocks moved in with their pseudo half double action trigger pull. And the rest is History.

sasquatchoslav

09-22-16, 16:20

Okay, nobody move! I'm hijacking this thread to Cuba!

LOL.

A question though, for you guys that shoot a lot, and do a lot of training with your Wonder Nines:

Without regard to ergos or looks or any of that happy horseshit--which one is the most durable and reliable?

Of the 3 I own on the list my 226 was my favorite. For many of the same reasons people like Glocks I moved over to a 17 an dthen a 19 for EDC. Weight was primary and then I quickly grew to love the lower bore axis on follow up shots. The Sig never fell out of favor b/c of durability or reliability it was simply outdone in the convenience department for me.

bighawk

09-22-16, 20:34

I'd pick the Glock 17 or 19 over any but if I had to pick one off the list I would definitely pick the 226. I loved that gun but I was at a point where all guns needed a specific purpose for me to keep them and all of my bases were covered so I sold it and bought a bunch of ammo and took a class.

The 226 and the Springfield TRP are the only two guns I wish I never would have sold.

Benito

09-22-16, 21:48

Howdy,

Beretta 93R.

Thread over.

shooter100

09-23-16, 02:55

When did you sell it? What did you get for it if you don't mind? I have one I will sell you:no: Kidding I'd never sell it, but I've had some offers for it over the years that made me do a double take. Even at this stage where it sits in a safe 365 days in favor of 17/19 I'm not letting that one go it was the first firearm I ever purchased

I sold it in the early 1990's. Didn't get major money for it, just the going price for a well taken care of used pistol.
I should've kept it though, it shot really well...

m4brian

09-23-16, 05:43

Yes Col Cooper called them cruncntickers but he exalted one above the rest: the CZ 75.

sasquatchoslav

09-23-16, 06:22

I sold it in the early 1990's. Didn't get major money for it, just the going price for a well taken care of used pistol.
I should've kept it though, it shot really well...

I get that I do. This year was like that for me I sold all my AR's except 2. A sentimental value Colt and a mut workhorse for pigs and coyotes that cost me about 4-450 to put together. The other rifles just sat around or were in a perpetual state of borrowing. Won't ever let go of my hunting rifles though I think I'm down to what I want to keep now.

556BlackRifle

09-23-16, 08:41

My favorite 1980s wonder nine is the West German Sig P228. I've owned several Sigs over the years and this one is the only one I still own. The ergonomics are perfect for me. It is accurate and although a duty pistol, very concealable.

soulezoo

09-23-16, 10:08

P226. I still have my 80's W. German build. It has the "K-coat" finish and really still looks fabulous after all these years. It is still the most accurate handgun I own, by a good margin.

The Beretta is too blocky... CZ too complicated. Had both, sold both. Still have the Sig.

Out of all the handguns I have had over the years if I could only take one to battle, it's the Sig. (This includes Glocks- yes I have one)

Pilot1

09-23-16, 13:53

CZ too complicated. Had both, sold both. Still have the Sig.

Out of all the handguns I have had over the years if I could only take one to battle, it's the Sig. (This includes Glocks- yes I have one)

How is the CZ too complicated? They make both safety, and decocker models. Point, and shoot, just like the Sig. I have a Sig P228. It has sat at the back of my safe since 2000 when I bought my CZ-75D PCR which rides in the Sigs holster perfectly. It is superior, FOR ME, in every way.

Gary1911A1

09-23-16, 13:55

The CZ 75 and the Browning are in the running for me finishing 2nd and 3rd respectfully, but I have to go with the Sig 226 with a good DA/SA trigger that was easier to reach in DA than the CZ, no tang bite that I experienced on the Browning, and a safer way to decock than on the CZ and Browning. Like others I would of rated the 228 higher, but it wasn't on the list of choices.

titsonritz

09-23-16, 14:14

For me the issue with the CZ has always been the diminutive slide, I prefer something with a little more to grab hold of for racking.

cocojo

09-23-16, 21:18

Walther PPQ is one awesome 9mm.

m4brian

09-24-16, 08:50

I think by saying the CZ is complicated it is the number of parts issue. To me its not that complex and having detail stripped a number of them, I don't find it a problem. The largest problem is the confounded TRS - which you DO normally need to detail strip them to replace - so when I do it, I polish. And... the decocker version IS more complex. Fortunately the Omega system makes all this easier including stripping/polishing, etc.

I WILL have to admit that the SIG comes with a better OTB trigger. So does Beretta, but then there is the ridiculous safety.

clarkz71

09-24-16, 09:20

Lot of Sig people, I wish I still had my German manufactured P220

What a great pistol.

slow10ker

09-25-16, 07:11

My favorites are my P226 and P228. Fits my hand well and I'm accurate with them. Plus, I've had the one P226 since 1996, fired at least 3000 rounds thru it without any malfunctions. If you include all of the modern wonder nines I'd still go with the Sigs....

KalashniKEV

09-25-16, 10:51

Out of the 6 people who voted for the HK cock-squeezer, I wonder how many have actually fired one...

pinzgauer

09-25-16, 11:02

Out of the 6 people who voted for the HK cock-squeezer, I wonder how many have actually fired one...

I have, and wish I had bought one back when

Not that it'd replace my Walthers now, but it was a truly innovative design and beautifully made.

titsonritz

09-25-16, 15:21

Howdy,

Beretta 93R.

Thread over.

Stengun is that you? :jester:

titsonritz

09-25-16, 15:23

Out of the 6 people who voted for the HK cock-squeezer, I wonder how many have actually fired one...

While not one of the 6 I have and preferred the P7M8 over the beefier brother, they get damn hot after rapid firing a few mags.

Firefly

09-25-16, 16:29

I am with Kev. CZ-75. It feels like a BHP 2.0.

I'd go with BHP over most everything else since Glocks dont exist in this thread.

Sig comes in 3rd. I wish I had a good old world honest 220.
Sig v Beretta, I take Sig.

I had a P7 and the heating up does keep it from severe use. Still a fun pistol.

48J

09-25-16, 17:33

Got to go with the BHP. It was the original wonder nine.

SpecWired

09-25-16, 18:18

1: Glock 17
2: Glock 19
3: Everything else

williejc

09-25-16, 18:34

To those who might be considering a pistol from the CZ 75 series, I suggest the P01, which is a decocker with a rail. Also the slide has a tad more grip area, which also has slightly more aggressive checkering. I have 3 CZ's(PCR, P01, 75 Compact{steel and non decoker}). I have owned others including the big .45. The P01 balances well. Of the three, this one shoots better, but the difference is not mechanical. For me it's the feel and how the sight line up when I point it--all subjective, of course. I sometimes carry the very slightly slimmer PCR. Like the 1911 and BHP, these pistols have soul. I suspect that the US market is their biggest non military one. I've noticed that CZ has "cleaned them up" a bit to suit American gun owners. As one poster noted in another thread, they do show fewer tool marks today. Let me add that their springs are better and so are their magazines, which when not made by Mec Gar, still are not quite as good.

pinzgauer

09-25-16, 19:19

Guys, need to read the original post... this is not "what's your favorite 9"... it's which of the 80's generation of "Wonder Nines".

Which means no poly frames, etc.

Sidneyious

09-25-16, 19:27

;)

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/03/jeremy-s/gun-review-arex-rex-zero-1-s/

m4brian

09-26-16, 12:10

Guys, need to read the original post... this is not "what's your favorite 9"... it's which of the 80's generation of "Wonder Nines".

Which means no poly frames, etc.

YES - and a GOOD thread at that!

titsonritz

09-26-16, 12:23

Guys, need to read the original post... this is not "what's your favorite 9"... it's which of the 80's generation of "Wonder Nines".

Which means no poly frames, etc.

Yeah I'm sure that is where the majority of the "other" votes are coming from.

titsonritz

09-26-16, 12:26

;)

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/03/jeremy-s/gun-review-arex-rex-zero-1-s/

Also out of the time period, now if it had been a Golan (http://www.nramuseum.org/media/363991/Aug%2096.pdf) that would be more in line with the spirit of the thread.

Sidneyious

09-26-16, 16:18

Also out of the time period, now if it had been a Golan (http://www.nramuseum.org/media/363991/Aug%2096.pdf) that would be more in line with the spirit of the thread.
Well the 226 is an 80s design

titsonritz

09-26-16, 17:00

Well the 226 is an 80s design

But Arex REX zero 1 S was not, and the Sig is actually a '70s design via the 220

pinzgauer

09-26-16, 17:47

But Arex REX zero 1 S was not, and the Sig is actually a '70s design via the 220

The 80's "WonderNines" were largely the result of the JSSAP M9 program. Which had the following Requirements:

Chambered in 9mm NATO caliber
Detachable magazine with capacity of at least 13 rounds
Magazine catch easily which ejects magazine without the use of the second hand
First round trigger pull to be double action, followups single action
Slide Stop that locks slide open when the magazine is empty
Durability of 5000 rounds with no more than 8 malfunctions

Safety System:

Thumb Safety system ambidextrous
Decocking device to safety lower a cocked hammer
Firing Pin lock when the hammer is lowered

Most pistols of the era, including the Sig 220 had to be modified to compete. The Sig's had not been big sellers in the US due to the heel mag release when sold as BDA's, though shops carried them.

Same for the P7, it had to be modified (capacity & mag release). Colt even made doublestack DA/SA 1911's to compete.

So "Wonder Nines" are largely defined by the above as pistols developed for that program reached the civvy market, though many also include metal frame as one of those characteristics. Glock did not compete, though a couple were evaluated. The VP-70 was in one of the very early rounds before the final requirements were formalized.

Skyviking

09-26-16, 18:41

The CZ-75 was the Holy Grail of the WunderNines in the 70's & 80's. Best way to get one was importing one from Canada. I've had/carried both the P7 PSP, as well as a P7M8, and also the P7-M13. The M13's magazines rattled like castanets, so I went back to a SIG P220 or P226 since they were on the Approved List for duty use. If you use a lot of pistolas, then the P7 is NOT the best for a carry gun since its manual of arms is totally different than almost anything else out there. It is thus an interesting range toy. If it is your ONLY pistola, then it is a great little pistola, but heavy, and no fun in an extended engagement - or qualification/match. The only thing hotter than a 2-dollar pistol is a thousand-dollar P7 after 2 magazines fired rapid-fire...

crusader377

09-26-16, 22:58

I think the interesting thing with this thread is among the four leaders SIG 220s, Beretta 92, CZ-75, and the BHP is that one can make a very rational argument on any one of the four on which one should be in 1st place.

Dienekes

09-27-16, 01:01

The Luddite in me stayed with the wheelgun to the bitter end. I managed to retire before the whole series of "really good, awful good, and perfect" mandated pistols were inflicted on us. I really try to kludge along with a Glock 19, but, damn, the BHP just gives me that come-hither look and I'm bound to sin.

Just ordered some 15 round Mec-gars for it.

Pilot1

09-27-16, 04:46

I am a big fan of the Browning Hi Power, and it was my first center fire pistol that I ever bought for myself. I also like the HK P7, and have a PSP, and M8. However, the CZ-75 is my preferred Wonder Nine. A lot of it has to do with the grip, and grip angle in addition they have been accurate and reliable over the years. The CZ just seem to fit me the best, and they make a nice line of pistols.