View Full Version : Officer shooting in Charlotte , multie officers wounded in riots/protest in aftermat
Whiskey_Bravo
09-21-16, 00:16
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/21/protests-after-charlotte-police-officers-kill-man-outside-apartment-complex.html (new link, the old one died)
At least 12 Charlotte cops injured in protests following officer-involved death of black man
Authorities used tear gas to disperse protesters, officers were injured and a highway was shut down during protests in Charlotte, North Carolina, over the fatal shooting of a black man by police who said he was armed and posed a threat.
What in the world is going on in Charlotte? From what I gather a black cop shot a black suspect with a gun at an apartment complex. Then all hell broke loose. Rioting, protest, fires, the usual fun stuff. Seems to be all quite so far this morning.
Tuesday night, a larger group of demonstrators gathered near the scene of the shooting. The Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department tweeted that demonstrators were destroying marked police vehicles and that approximately 12 officers had been injured, including one who was hit in the face with a rock. Photos and TV video showed police firing tear gas to break up the crowd. Some officers were in riot gear.
By 5 a.m. Wednesday, the streets were quiet with no protesters in sight. Broken glass and rocks littered the ground where a police car had been vandalized. Less than 5 miles away, wooden pallets barricaded the entrance of a Walmart that had apparently been looted
Edit: Typo in title, that should have been multiple officers and aftermath. Sorry.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-21-16, 01:42
Just saw that on CNN. You have to go pretty deep into the article to get the real story. 3/4 of the way through, you'd think that they shot the wrong guy for some reason.--- Nope, they capped a guy with a gun who was at least brandishing a gun.
I feel for the guy in Tulsa, but you ignore commands and reach inside your car like that, you got a good chance of getting popped. He actually got snap, crackled and popped since he was shot and tazed too.
"No Justice, no peace" makes me want to load mags if shooting an armed and noncompliant is thought not to be justified.
And we are back to, "Why didn't they shoot the gun out of his hand" stupidity.
This is getting too frequent. Guys on the road: If you aren't issued a bodycam, get a go pro. Get helmets, carbines with a solid zero, do a diagnostic on your de-escalation skills, wear your vests, I admit to barebacking on hot days. No more.
The average nationwide is 25 hours a year give or take. Take vacation and get well vetted, state-sponsored training. And keep close eyes on rookies.
Defensive tactics, don't worry about carbine if you've had patrol rifle or military, focus on pistols. Combat Handgunnery like the Bill Rogers course. Carry a Glock 19 BUG. Also some cultural awareness training isnt a bad idea
Just be careful. I seen some shit in my day but this is unprecedented
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-21-16, 02:31
Is it, or is it just being reported more. For every black kid shot there are 1X-plus white guys shot, but watching the press you'd think that cops only shot black guys.
The fact that 50%+ of these, on the face of it, are good shoots is even more troubling. The cops shot a guy with a gun? Why is that newsworthy nationally and why is it the rally point for action?
There are bad shoots all the time. The guy in Walmart with a BB gun while on the phone, the caretaker shot while proned out on the street. Those for some reason fade and don't get cited or press. It's these dumbasses doing stupid things and get shot that make the news.
ETA: From CNN:
The protests continued into early Wednesday as crowds blocked Interstate 85 and started a fire at the center of the highway. Vehicles and tractor-trailers stalled as far as the eye could see as police cars with flashing lights hovered nearby.
Fire and vehicles... what can go wrong there.
This stuff is getting out of hand. Maybe they should riot in Chicago.
This stuff is getting out of hand. Maybe they should riot in Chicago.
That's just racist. There is a new African American history and culture museum opening Saturday in DC. Security is already stepped up. Maybe they'll riot on national mall, because oppression, or something.
Moose-Knuckle
09-21-16, 05:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ub_8rMw_Z4
Eurodriver
09-21-16, 05:52
I remember Tyron Lewis.
This shit can happen anywhere. Be safe.
I look at the riots and can't help but think of what a shitty time it is to be a cop right now. My thoughts and prayers go out anyone LEO's, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.
Saw a comment on a blog yesterday: "The world is the way it is because people are the way they are."
Yup.
Averageman
09-21-16, 07:00
I hadn't heard about this until now, this morning its been on the News.
Amazingly it seems Brangelina is much more important.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-21-16, 07:52
I don't think these people understand the meaning of the word 'Protest'.
Outlander Systems
09-21-16, 08:03
Not a symptom of a healthy society.
Averageman
09-21-16, 08:13
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/20/protesters-confront-police-shooting-charlotte/
A statement from Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police said officers were at an apartment complex on Tuesday looking for a suspect with an outstanding warrant when they encountered a person — not the suspect they were looking for — inside a car. Officials say the person exited the car with a gun, then got back in.
The statement said when officers approached the car, the person got out of the car with the gun again. The officers considered the person to be a threat and fired their weapons. Emergency personnel took the person to Carolinas Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead. The suspect’s identity hasn’t been released.
At what point did he decide that messing with his gun while the Police were talking to him was a good idea?
Don't obey their commands when you're being interviewed and grab a gun is a pretty sure way to get yourself shot.
Heard on the radio this morning that the cop who shot the guy was black. Go figure.........
sevenhelmet
09-21-16, 09:01
According to one source, at least 13 people listed as "white" (http://www.killedbypolice.net/)have apparently been killed by police this month alone. But nobody cares.
ETA: And now protestors are using the fact that an armed Islamic Terrorist was recently taken alive as an excuse. Cool. I guess if a guy's black he should be given a free pass? I don't see any 'solutions' being proposed here that could actually work.
Heard on the radio this morning that the cop who shot the guy was black. Go figure.........
Yes, they also released his name, which, at this point was not a good thing IMO.
I don't think these people understand the meaning of the word 'Protest'.
The media certainly doesn't! :mad:
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-21-16, 10:35
So a democratic mayor, and a black police chief and a black cop conspired to kill a black man because of racism...
The question switches from "Are you stupid?" To "How stupid are you?".
Mr. Goodtimes
09-21-16, 10:37
If you live in a major city/metropolitan area in the US it's only a matter of time before this garbage comes to your town. These days every city is just one justified shooting away from burning to the ground. This nation has lost its mind. I didn't grow up in the sixties but I can't imagine were too far off.
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Lost in all of this are the "bad shoots" or other incidents (homeless man in OC beat to death a few years back) that DON'T involve a black person get zero coverage when a "good shoot" involving a black person becomes a national tragedy with rioting.
Something is off.
titsonritz
09-21-16, 11:35
I don't think these people understand the meaning of the word 'Protest'.
This pisses me off, the worthless ****s are rioters not protesters. You are supposed shoot rioters and looters.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-21-16, 11:38
Any criminal history on the deceased? Not saying guilt by prior conviction, but it would be interesting to know.
It seems in the black community they use "He was going to community college" like white people use "I have black friends" to try to prove that they are one of the good guys.
Averageman
09-21-16, 11:41
You know when these "rioters" end up hijacking loads on the Highway, it so far out of hand, there isn't a lot of push back to stop them.
Outlander Systems
09-21-16, 12:22
If I were of a Machiavellian bent, a push back is exactly what I would want...
...there isn't a lot of push back to stop them.
Averageman
09-21-16, 12:45
If I were of a Machiavellian bent, a push back is exactly what I would want...
Please explain?
I was hearing on the radio these "rioters" were throwing bricks off of overpasses last night to "protest."
So what is achieved by that?
I'm just guessing that the reason the Governor, Mayor and Chief of Police aren't getting ahead of this and dispensing Hickory Shampoo jobs, is that they are afraid of the conflict resolution process in a case like this getting them some bad press and fewer votes next time.
One of these days this kind of mess is going to spill in to the suburbs and it's going to make history in the bloodshed spent.
This is being fomented for a reason. You speculate, but we will not know the full totality until they let it come to a head.
If 20 Capital cities burned, what would you call that?
If I were a black man today I would be appalled that they were trying to use me and racial identity to goad me into a pathetic domestic guerilla war.
BLM is here, it is real, and imagine the KKK of the Recomstruction era with national news and facebook.
Imagine what a Congress could do in times of great unrest.
And....any cop with 5 years or less under their belt has no idea the magnitude of the shitstorm and the eye of which has not yet come to pass. Lotta old hands saying F it, not worth it.
I can't blame them. Who could? You will be paraded like a sacrificial lamb for a retirement you won't see and money most other college grads laugh at.
I dare not compare it to guys coming back from Nam but it feels that way. F ing up the police like it's cool.
I know/knew a bunch of people who thought being black/asian and/or female was a pass. Oh hell no. You could be Sammy Davis Jr and it wouldn't matter. If you're in a police uniform, you're on open season. They are no longer discriminating.
It's not getting better. It isn't meant to.
Take no more chances. Best advice. No matter what you do; they say you are wrong. There are more of them. Mobocracy in action.
Please explain?
I was hearing on the radio these "rioters" were throwing bricks off of overpasses last night to "protest."
So what is achieved by that?
I'm just guessing that the reason the Governor, Mayor and Chief of Police aren't getting ahead of this and dispensing Hickory Shampoo jobs, is that they are afraid of the conflict resolution process in a case like this getting them some bad press and fewer votes next time.
One of these days this kind of mess is going to spill in to the suburbs and it's going to make history in the bloodshed spent.
Why do you think the Left wants us disarmed? Not that it's going to happen, mind you. Why do you think the most vocal black "leaders" want gun control? Because they know damn well that it would be "their folk" who would be on the receiving end of gunfire should they get stupid enough to try and make whitey pay. They want their ilk to be undeterred in their mayhem. Cops have ROE to follow; we as citizens, under attack in our own neighborhoods (or anywhere else for that matter), do not.
This is being fomented for a reason. You speculate, but we will not know the full totality until they let it come to a head.
If 20 Capital cities burned, what would you call that?
If I were a black man today I would be appalled that they were trying to use me and racial identity to goad me into a pathetic domestic guerilla war.
BLM is here, it is real, and imagine the KKK of the Recomstruction era with national news and facebook.
Imagine what a Congress could do in times of great unrest.
And....any cop with 5 years or less under their belt has no idea the magnitude of the shitstorm and the eye of which has not yet come to pass. Lotta old hands saying F it, not worth it.
I can't blame them. Who could? You will be paraded like a sacrificial lamb for a retirement you won't see and money most other college grads laugh at.
I dare not compare it to guys coming back from Nam but it feels that way. F ing up the police like it's cool.
I know/knew a bunch of people who thought being black/asian and/or female was a pass. Oh hell no. You could be Sammy Davis Jr and it wouldn't matter. If you're in a police uniform, you're on open season. They are no longer discriminating.
It's not getting better. It isn't meant to.
Take no more chances. Best advice. No matter what you do; they say you are wrong. There are more of them. Mobocracy in action.
Racial identity politics has a well defined order of hierarchy. Just because middle aged white males are at the very bottom, doesn't mean any other subgroup gets a pass when these events occur. :(
Outlander Systems
09-21-16, 13:11
I'm no expert, but I see all of these shenanigans as 5GW, whereby EVERYTHING is weaponized, even "protests."
The Police are fighting a losing battle.
Do their jobs; it's "racist."
Pull LEOs off their beat, let minority neighborhoods rot, and implode on themselves; it's "racist."
These antics create cultural schisms.
Who, pray tell, benefits from these schisms? Why are organizations like BLM funded by billionaires? What happens when some good-old boys start shooting "protesters?" Why is this riotous behavior not called out for what it is - barbarism? Why is everything an issue of "race?" Why are LEOs being demonized? How were these individuals so quick to deploy for operation pillage and plunder? How many arrests have been made?
Who's controlling the narrative? What's their endgame?
I'm no expert, but I see all of these shenanigans as 5GW, whereby EVERYTHING is weaponized, even "protests."
The Police are fighting a losing battle.
Do their jobs; it's "racist."
Pull LEOs off their beat, let minority neighborhoods rot, and implode on themselves; it's "racist."
These antics create cultural schisms.
Who, pray tell, benefits from these schisms? Why are organizations like BLM funded by billionaires? What happens when some good-old boys start shooting "protesters?" Why is this riotous behavior not called out for what it is - barbarism? Why is everything an issue of "race?" Why are LEOs being demonized? How were these individuals so quick to deploy for operation pillage and plunder? How many arrests have been made?
Who's controlling the narrative? What's their endgame?
While there may indeed be some manipulation going on behind the scenes, I will not allow that to excuse the hoards of animals rioting in the streets. While they may be "useful idiots" they are still doing what we see them doing, reasons be damned. In other words you won't see me extending an olive branch to savages because they were being duped by The Man. If they were stupid enough to become a part of some grand master scheme then they'll pay the price for such stupidity accordingly.
Yes, there is a divide in this country and I stand PROUDLY on one side of it. No apologies either.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-21-16, 13:24
The current path is less policing in these neighborhoods, crime goes up and the majority of the population suffers.
These protestors have as much chance getting to suburbs as Putin does with expeditionary warfare on our East Coast. What we will face is increased 'behind the lines' attacks when crime spills over from poor areas to middle class areas.
I still don't understand how these things get so far into riot territory, but those bad acts don't reflect poorly on the BLMers. Dylan Roof's acts get Confederate flags vanquished from public, but these BLMers shoot cops, kidnap (that is what these highway shutdowns are), loot, burn and trash whole neighborhoods and they seem to get stronger.
And big city mayors don't seem to be able to get these people incarcerated on anything. "No Justice, no peace" is essentially a terroristic threat. These organizers are inside the RICO definition of organized crime.
When the family spokesperson was talking, I was hoping that someone was going to show up with a bull horn, rush the stage and take over the mic like the BLMers do. Maybe light some trash off. Make a line so that the press can't get to the family lie-a-thon. You know what would happen to those people...
A buddy of mine, a black guy, works less than a mile from the shooting. He said that none of his black friends believe there is any 'there' there. And he said that his friends are all very much anti-BLM. He does admit to being worried, when stuff likes this go down he and his friends retreat and become wallflowers lest they be seen in the same light.
NAACP press conference today and I nearly lost my lunch hearing the muslim representative state that, "It's hunting season and black men are the prey."
Being in law enforcement and seeing, over and over and over again, how nearly all of these media-dubbed "murders" begin with a person breaking the law, getting caught breaking the law, acting like the law doesn't apply to them, ignoring or disobeying commands, often at gun point and eventually being shot. Are there mistakes made by officers? Of course, but for God's sake people, does it take a genius to see that committing crimes brings police and antagonizing the police once they arrive doesn't end well? I mean come on, do what you're told/ordered to do, especially at gun point and if it is all just because that officer is a racist, you can bet that it will be on video and the entire msm will not rest until you get a huge cash payoff. If the media and the public doesn't convict the officer, Loretta Lynch and her agenda will swoop in and put the DOJ on the case to ensure social justice is served.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-21-16, 13:51
If the media and the public doesn't convict the officer, Loretta Lynch and her agenda will swoop in and put the DOJ on the case to ensure social justice is served.
I think Loretta Lynch is a psychopath. Just watch her. It's like her body is on this super slick autopilot. She is very eloquent, but seems totally detached from her message. She is highly deceptive while at the same time very manipulative. She seems like a person with highly polished acting skills, that are kind of in that uncanny valley because she is faking all the emotions and interactions. Like she is hyper-intelligent and has prepared answers and redirects for every possible answer. She makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck- which I tell my kids is millions of years of evolution working for you as you pick up subtle clues that someone isn't right.
If cabinet level jobs are CEO type positions and research has shown that 1:5 people at that level are psychopaths, there are probably a couple in every cabinet.
Outlander Systems
09-21-16, 13:52
I'm not trying to go all woo-woo...
But I'd be willing to bet a paycheck that's exactly what the intended response is.
Yes, there is a divide in this country and I stand PROUDLY on one side of it. No apologies either.
I'm not trying to go all woo-woo...
But I'd be willing to bet a paycheck that's exactly what the intended response is.
So be it, then they succeeded didn't they? I won't paint with a broad brush; if you're not a part of the mayhem then you're not a part of the mayhem, period. If you are, well.......don't expect me to step back and think "Wait, a minute, I shouldn't hold them accountable because this is all part of a big plan". Uh-uh. The people on my side of the divide are not segregated by skin color, special interests, or religion. Those on the other side ARE. Whiney-ass white "special snowflakes", unassimilated Muslims, and perpetually offended/downtrodden black and Hispanic victims hold the other hill. Plan or not I have nothing in common with them and they can all kiss my ass.
One of our own member is in the middle of that riot trying to do his job. Prayers and thoughts for his safety and other law enforcers's safety.
Whiskey_Bravo
09-21-16, 14:32
One of our own member is in the middle of that riot trying to do his job. Prayers and thoughts for his safety and other law enforcers's safety.
Be safe whoever you are. My prayers are with you. I can't imagine the stress of being a LEO right now in this country, let alone in a riot zone.
sevenhelmet
09-21-16, 14:33
I
Who, pray tell, benefits from these schisms? Why are organizations like BLM funded by billionaires? What happens when some good-old boys start shooting "protesters?" Why is this riotous behavior not called out for what it is - barbarism? Why is everything an issue of "race?" Why are LEOs being demonized? How were these individuals so quick to deploy for operation pillage and plunder? How many arrests have been made?
Who's controlling the narrative? What's their endgame?
As soon as "good ole boys" start taking shots at rioters, then they'll have all the justification they need to pass laws so strict they'll make the latest CA diktat look like a tea party. It'll take the leftist thought-control agenda fully into the mainstream- they won't have to pretend to be tolerant anymore. Nobody in BLM is serious about a solution. They're just looking for excuses to make things worse so they can take control.
Averageman
09-21-16, 14:41
I'm guessing a bit of this is because this is an election year, nobody wants to step up and apply the required slap down until the final votes are counted.
I'm also guessing that if the "D's" win it will be seen as the Green Light for four more years of this. If the "R's" win, after all of the rhetoric, I'm wondering how it will shake out.
I'm not sure what the end goal could be unless it is to take down the entire system and reshape it in to Socialism.
I'm pretty sure that being caught in the act of rioting, looting and committing arson would likely get you a bullet in many places. I kind of notice those places that do have this malarkey taking place tend to be "Blue States" with "D" Mayors and Chiefs of Police.
An ironic reap what you sow kind of thing.
I'm guessing a bit of this is because this is an election year, nobody wants to step up and apply the required slap down until the final votes are counted.
I'm also guessing that if the "D's" win it will be seen as the Green Light for four more years of this. If the "R's" win, after all of the rhetoric, I'm wondering how it will shake out.
I'm not sure what the end goal could be unless it is to take down the entire system and reshape it in to Socialism.
I'm pretty sure that being caught in the act of rioting, looting and committing arson would likely get you a bullet in many places. I kind of notice those places that do have this malarkey taking place tend to be "Blue States" with "D" Mayors and Chiefs of Police.
An ironic reap what you sow kind of thing.
Socialism IS the goal with all of this. All of these "celebrities" that are "speaking out" are already linking this to:
Unfair wages for non-whites
Less education for non-whites
Less opportunities for home ownership for non-whites
Unfair portrayals of non-whites in the media
So if people are choosing to work shitty jobs or not work at all due to laziness or resort to crime it isn't their fault but the fault of the system that has oppressed them from day 1. Yeah, that's where they are heading with this.
Outlander Systems
09-21-16, 14:53
#Winning
The lack of clearly articulated goals, should be a massive, flailing red flag.
Nobody in BLM is serious about a solution.
"I'm no expert, but I see all of these shenanigans as 5GW, whereby EVERYTHING is weaponized, even "protests"."
Hell, I'm not sure that our glorious leaders can get up to speed on First Generation War. They'd be hauling water and hewing wood for their conquerors from birth and thinking it was normal.
I live in Charlotte and work in a pretty black area south of Charlotte. First I heard of it was from a middle aged black woman who came into the shop talking about dirt bags rioting. I heard some more talk about it through out the day. Mostly from middle aged black people and they do not condone it at all. I feel like the media likes to hype this stuff up.
Does anyone know water part of Charlotte this was happening in?
Does anyone know water part of Charlotte this was happening in?
I'm not from Charlotte, not familiar with the city, found this on Foxnews:
Police blocked access to the area, which is about a mile from the campus of the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, as protesters gathered after the shooting.
I would suggest if you listen or watch your local radio or tv stations, they would include the information on the area, or you may notice some landmarks.
I'm not from Charlotte, not familiar with the city, found this on Foxnews:
Police blocked access to the area, which is about a mile from the campus of the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, as protesters gathered after the shooting.
I would suggest if you listen or watch your local radio or tv stations, they would include the information on the area, or you may notice some landmarks.
I got rid of cable I whIle back and didn't even hear about it on the radio.
Figures it would be in that area though. Far across town.
Thanks Sam
The local tv and radio stations do have websites and as far as I know the TV stations are still broadcasting free over the air. You don't want to stumble into a riot.
The local tv and radio stations do have websites and as far as I know the TV stations are still broadcasting free over the air. You don't want to stumble into a riot.
I found some articles. It's looking kind of rainy out and with the information about the guy having a gun, I can't see how more protests could be justified.
I don't find myself venturing to that area to often, if ever.
Isn't inciting a riot illegal? Watching some of those videos it's pretty clear.
I'm not from Charlotte, not familiar with the city, found this on Foxnews:
Police blocked access to the area, which is about a mile from the campus of the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, as protesters gathered after the shooting.
I would suggest if you listen or watch your local radio or tv stations, they would include the information on the area, or you may notice some landmarks.
I live just outside of CLT. The shooting occured in the NE side of town with the the protests spilling over into the adjacent section of I-85. FWIW, it is not a nice part of town. However I-85is a major interstate connecting Petersburg, VA to Atlanta, GA with Durham, Greensboro, and Greenville, SC in between.
It's the University Area
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Violent protests in Uptown (aka downtown) near the Epicenter and intersection of Tade and Tryon. Reports are that at least one person shot.
Violent protests in Uptown (aka downtown) near the Epicenter and intersection of Tade and Tryon. Reports are that at least one person shot.
AKA riots.
Saying it wasn't police...civi on civi shooting??
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-21-16, 21:15
Saying it wasn't police...civi on civi shooting??
Uhm, that happens every night, how do you separate that killing from the noise?
Saying it wasn't police...civi on civi shooting??
Dirtbags shooting assholes. This time it was during a riot.
Really don't care as long as it was another thug...was worried about it being LE.
I am so glad I didn't pursue my criminal justice carrier I was going to go after...no way would I want to be in this circus in today's world. I'm really losing my patience for the decency of our country. How racial escalations are expounding with an African American POTUS voted in twice speaks volumes on so many levels. I'm glad I am surrounded by multiple facets of LE along the border dealing with my own insanity issues and distant from this sort of crap. I know many would not want to live where I am but I would not trade places for any amount of coin.
I just saw the Governor has declared a state of emergency, for the safety of the officers. Why not just drop the leash on the riot officers and let them go to work? Hats, bats, hoses and handcuffs. Start arresting everyone and take back the streets. These riots each time a dude gets killed are BS and need to be crushed.
Straight Shooter
09-21-16, 22:51
One of our own member is in the middle of that riot trying to do his job. Prayers and thoughts for his safety and other law enforcers's safety.
In Jesus' name...be careful & safe.
I just saw the Governor has declared a state of emergency, for the safety of the officers. Why not just drop the leash on the riot officers and let them go to work? Hats, bats, hoses and handcuffs. Start arresting everyone and take back the streets. These riots each time a dude gets killed are BS and need to be crushed.
That will never happen. Those days are gone. I remember, and was in on it, when a strong show of muscle stopped it before it could start. A lotta guys with long riot baton bo staff looking riot whoopass sticks , dudes with gas launchers, shotguns or MP5s low slung and dudes standing tall with a Gas mask on like outta Dawn of the Dead kept it to swearing and sign holding and when it was time to go home it was time to go home. Guys in the portable sniper crane crows nest that was blinded out with an occasional Remington or M14 barrel poking out also set the tone.
Whomever our M4Cer(s) is/are, be careful. Like super careful.
Whomever our M4Cer(s) is/are, be careful. Like super careful.
I sure hope so. One of these days a riot is going to kill a cop and then all bets are off.
All we know for sure is that the current SOP, isn't working. :(
There is a pretty good thread on TOS in the GD titled "An Officer spent 18 months in Syria, explains terrorist tactics". I am not going to link it, but you can search it out. If I am not mistaken the Officer was Russian and the work does seem to have some political push to it, but is still a good thread. It goes on to list the differences in the Syrian conflict vs other conflicts to this point, and brought up this point.
"SOME KEY CONCEPTS
Vasily classified all wars in history as follows: conventional wars (wars between armies, targeting enemy military, aiming to occupy territory and defeat the enemy), and guerrilla wars (insurgents, operating among the population and with support of at least some of it, are targeting enemy military units, government institutions, strategic infrastructure, in order to degrade the enemy warfighting capability and seize control). Even civil wars can usually be described as a mixture of conventional and unconventional/guerrilla warfare.
The Syrian war is neither. Terrorists aren't primarily targeting military or government targets. They often don't operate as large units - in fact, especially initially, attacks are carried out by "lone wolves", but in many locations at once. They don't immediately try to seize territory or degrade the military's ability to fight a conventional war - instead, they try to create chaos and destroy the economy. They don't give a shit about the support or survival of local populations, as the terrorist's funding and orders come from abroad, and they can simply force locals to do their bidding at gunpoint. Their endgame is not taking over the country, but dismantling it to the point where it ceases to exist as a coherent political entity, and can never recover."
2nd paragraph, from the word instead til the end is extremely important to keep in mind when trying to rationalize things like what is happening in Charlotte. There are aome who are pushing an agenda, but the vast majority are just people who will use anything (Hurricane, Police controversity,...) as an excuse to show their ass and not live by our laws and rules. These people live minute to minute and their fun and amusement is what drives their every decision; from drugs to stealing, to playing the knock out game, and to killing and mutilating 2 college students in Knoxville. They live by a different code than we do. That is why it is so hard for most civilized Americans to understand why they do the things they do. Dave Chappelle did a skit mocking the tv show The Real World. That skit was 110% spot on concerning the thug life and behavior. They do not care about slavery or their ancestors or about the civil rights struggle. They care about having a good time, especially if that good time comes at the expense or pain of another person. This is especially true if that person is someone who is of a race/culture that they have decided it open season on. This BLM bs is not a run for power or an attempt to be a controlling majority so much as it is an excuse to show their ass.
That said, there are definitely some who are chomping at the bit to use this as an excuse to "fundamentally change" America.
Without a doubt things will get worse.
Moose-Knuckle
09-22-16, 04:05
I'm no expert, but I see all of these shenanigans as 5GW, whereby EVERYTHING is weaponized, even "protests."
The Police are fighting a losing battle.
Do their jobs; it's "racist."
Pull LEOs off their beat, let minority neighborhoods rot, and implode on themselves; it's "racist."
These antics create cultural schisms.
Who, pray tell, benefits from these schisms? Why are organizations like BLM funded by billionaires? What happens when some good-old boys start shooting "protesters?" Why is this riotous behavior not called out for what it is - barbarism? Why is everything an issue of "race?" Why are LEOs being demonized? How were these individuals so quick to deploy for operation pillage and plunder? How many arrests have been made?
Who's controlling the narrative? What's their endgame?
The who . . . elite power players / globalists the reason . . . the fall of Western Civilization.
Moose-Knuckle
09-22-16, 04:20
Makes you all warm and fuzzy in the feels when you turn on the TV and you see images of American cities that resemble ****ing Monrovia.
Would have loved to see some AH-1s arrive on station weapons free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vJqBFlLdHc
One of our own member is in the middle of that riot trying to do his job. Prayers and thoughts for his safety and other law enforcers's safety.
In Jesus' name...be careful & safe.
He is safe. He even made an arrest of a looter, and he was cheered by the building's occupants when he snapped the cuff on the anarchist.
He said state troopers had their ARs and were guarding some business.
Appreciate the update Sam...hope it settles down soon. Probably more unnerving for his family than himself I reckon.
Just saw on local news this am where a picture of the original scene shows a bible, I mean a pistol, laying on the ground beside the perp. LE officially stated they did find a handgun but no literary materials were found in the presence of the perp.
BLM again =
https://youtu.be/1ytCEuuW2_A
Alllllriigght MFer's, time to drop gloves.
I just found out the bastards damaged the NASCAR Hall of Fame.
Alllllriigght MFer's, time to drop gloves.
I just found out the bastards damaged the NASCAR Hall of Fame.
Sounds like a good enough excuse to me & I hate nascar
What a shitshow. Could you imagine just going down the interstate doing your own thing, all the sudden all hell breaks loose and you get caught in the middle of it.
Them truck drivers should have some balls and just powered right through it. I would have. No way in hell I would stick around for that.
The video looks like it came straight out of somewhere in Africa. No way in hell that should be in the United States.
Whiskey_Bravo
09-22-16, 09:50
https://twitter.com/LibertarianQn/status/778845840496594944
Video of a white guy getting stripped, beaten, and drug through a parking garage. Seriously, this kind of stuff is straight out of third world countries and there is no reason for it to be happening here. Situational awareness and being ale to defend yourself are key to not being this guy.
Sounds like a good enough excuse to me & I hate nascar
Turning left forever does not excite you?! :rolleyes:
https://twitter.com/LibertarianQn/status/778845840496594944
Video of a white guy getting stripped, beaten, and drug through a parking garage. Seriously, this kind of stuff is straight out of third world countries and there is no reason for it to be happening here. Situational awareness and being ale to defend yourself are key to not being this guy.
And that's why there's video of another guy, trying his best to GTFO of Dodge with his weapon already drawn... see who wants to take one for the team....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801796/He-allowed-drive-away-alive-White-motorist-armed-GUN-filmed-driving-slowly-crowd-protesters-Charlotte.html
Turning left forever does not excite you?! :rolleyes:
No. Not in the least.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-22-16, 10:31
One of our own member is in the middle of that riot trying to do his job. Prayers and thoughts for his safety and other law enforcers's safety.
He is safe. He even made an arrest of a looter, and he was cheered by the building's occupants when he snapped the cuff on the anarchist.
He said state troopers had their ARs and were guarding some business.
Can't wait to hear the reality of the situation versus what out of town MSM people are telling us.
Alllllriigght MFer's, time to drop gloves.
I just found out the bastards damaged the NASCAR Hall of Fame.
We know they weren't looting...
https://twitter.com/LibertarianQn/status/778845840496594944
Video of a white guy getting stripped, beaten, and drug through a parking garage. Seriously, this kind of stuff is straight out of third world countries and there is no reason for it to be happening here. Situational awareness and being ale to defend yourself are key to not being this guy.
You see real protestors and the clergy out there actually protesting. Then at night these guys come out and that is what everyone sees. But the bigger thing is, why does the majority allow these people to hijack their cause? Why do they let these thugs run their neighborhoods? Hell, why do they keep voting Democrat? They only see Republicans on the TV.
The highway thing gives me the heebee-jeebees. In urban areas, in those concrete canyons with no room to maneuver. After Reginald Denny, I am not taking any chances. But that is if you are in the front. You get into what is essentially no options when you are hemmed in like that in the middle.
I sure hope so. One of these days a riot is going to kill a cop and then all bets are off.
Uhh, it already happened. Remember Dallas and Baton Rouge over the summer.
The highway thing gives me the heebee-jeebees. In urban areas, in those concrete canyons with no room to maneuver. After Reginald Denny, I am not taking any chances. But that is if you are in the front. You get into what is essentially no options when you are hemmed in like that in the middle.
My wife and I keep a handgun in each of our three vehicles. Should throw in an extra mag or two but the one currently in each gun is lock and loaded.
And that's why there's video of another guy, trying his best to GTFO of Dodge with his weapon already drawn... see who wants to take one for the team....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801796/He-allowed-drive-away-alive-White-motorist-armed-GUN-filmed-driving-slowly-crowd-protesters-Charlotte.html
Good for him. Did you read the article though? OMG, I can't believe the spin on it! Ironically the comments are pretty level-headed but the article itself? Unbelievable.
Averageman
09-22-16, 11:02
My wife and I keep a handgun in each of our three vehicles. Should throw in an extra mag or two but the one currently in each gun is lock and loaded.
I do the same and although I live in Timbuk 3, when I roll out of my comfort zone to visit Family this Thanksgiving I'm taking and AR or an AR pistol with me. The only thing worse than having this in your back yard would to be caught halfway between home and family and roll up in to this.
I will have a "Get Home Bag" with me, but honestly, what does that do to prevent a cinderblock hitting your windshield or being caught in a Highway Blockade?
We're living in some pretty strange and transitional times right now. Unless there is some violent and immeadiate push back to this kind of drama, it's going to continue.
I'm wondering what the day after the election will look like if these folks don't get what they want?
Good for him. Did you read the article though? OMG, I can't believe the spin on it! Ironically the comments are pretty level-headed but the article itself? Unbelievable.
Yes I read it. In honesty, if those savages wanted a piece of him and were willing to sacrifice a few of their own, his little pea shooter would not be enough.
Look at these five videos of the anarchists:
http://bluelivesmatter.blue/5-videos-define-wednesday-nights-charlotte-nc-riots/
Singlestack Wonder
09-22-16, 11:18
Let's see, liberal president, riots in the streets, property destroyed, police shot at and injured......Sounds like the late 1960's again. Soon the National Guard will be called in to put down the rioters...
Who says history doesn't repeat itself?
Yes I read it. In honesty, if those savages wanted a piece of him and were willing to sacrifice a few of their own, his little pea shooter would not be enough.
Look at these five videos of the anarchists:
http://bluelivesmatter.blue/5-videos-define-wednesday-nights-charlotte-nc-riots/
Agreed, but who did they not attack? The guy with the gun. They are by nature cowards and thugs, not actually protesting for a cause they actually believe in, but an excuse to riot.
Outlander Systems
09-22-16, 11:40
#Winning
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20160916-dallas-police-sergeant-files-federal-lawsuit-accusing-black-lives-matter-leaders-of-inciting-anti-cop-violence.ece?extpar=dfw-m
Black cop suing BLM for inciting violence.
Dude is a CHAMPION.
Good for him. Did you read the article though? OMG, I can't believe the spin on it! Ironically the comments are pretty level-headed but the article itself? Unbelievable.
I love how the liberal writer keeps pointing out that it's against the law to open carry into a "protest". Gee, is assault, looting, arson, interference with interstate transport, etc., etc., etc. not illegal? That dude was a dumbass for hanging the gun out the window, but he drove out of a hostile situation UNHARMED. That's what we call a "win". :rolleyes:
Yes I read it. In honesty, if those savages wanted a piece of him and were willing to sacrifice a few of their own, his little pea shooter would not be enough.
Look at these five videos of the anarchists:
http://bluelivesmatter.blue/5-videos-define-wednesday-nights-charlotte-nc-riots/
All of those examples share a common theme, they were UNARMED victims. Rioters aren't afraid of the police, because they know they must follow certain rules. Rioters aren't afraid of the media or unarmed innocent bystanders, because they know they're easy prey. They are generally afraid of some random dude on the street with a gun, because that's a wild card they don't have any advantage over. That guy might just casually cruise through like this guy did, or he might freak out at all the rioters and start capping people. Even his little "pea shooter" evens the playing field. The last thing these thugs want is a level playing field. :(
#Winning
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20160916-dallas-police-sergeant-files-federal-lawsuit-accusing-black-lives-matter-leaders-of-inciting-anti-cop-violence.ece?extpar=dfw-m
Black cop suing BLM for inciting violence.
Dude is a CHAMPION.
I would contribute to his attorney fees.....
Yes I read it. In honesty, if those savages wanted a piece of him and were willing to sacrifice a few of their own, his little pea shooter would not be enough.
Look at these five videos of the anarchists:
http://bluelivesmatter.blue/5-videos-define-wednesday-nights-charlotte-nc-riots/
They're not Jihadists, just ghetto scum. No religious zeal or drive other than personal gratification at other's expense. Put it this way, I'd rather have that little pea shooter than not have it.
I love how the liberal writer keeps pointing out that it's against the law to open carry into a "protest". Gee, is assault, looting, arson, interference with interstate transport, etc., etc., etc. not illegal? That dude was a dumbass for hanging the gun out the window, but he drove out of a hostile situation UNHARMED. That's what we call a "win". :rolleyes:
I also loved the implication that it was racist (waaahhh!!!) for him to have a gun to protect himself from savages. Know what's really racist? The savages would be looking for someone WHITE (and unarmed I might add) to trounce.
I also loved the implication that it was racist (waaahhh!!!) for him to have a gun to protect himself from savages. Know what's really racist? The savages would be looking for someone WHITE (and unarmed I might add) to trounce.
The entire write up is one racist click bait after another. The UK media is even worse and loves to paint the US in a negative light for their ratings.
Yes I read it. In honesty, if those savages wanted a piece of him and were willing to sacrifice a few of their own, his little pea shooter would not be enough.
Look at these five videos of the anarchists:
http://bluelivesmatter.blue/5-videos...otte-nc-riots/
Unless you're rockin belt fed, dissuading an angry mob is more about psychology than actual effectiveness. The mob mentality is one of safety in the herd. Bad things will happen to the other guy. You've got to put the fear in the back of the mind of the individual that yes, in fact, something bad will happen to them.
The entire write up is one racist click bait after another. The UK media is even worse and loves to paint the US in a negative light for their ratings.
They are and the Mail is a half a step up from the bottom of that barrel. The only good thing about the whole lot is sometimes they report on things the US media tries to sweep under the rug...
sevenhelmet
09-22-16, 12:54
Let's see, liberal president, riots in the streets, property destroyed, police shot at and injured......Sounds like the late 1960's again. Soon the National Guard will be called in to put down the rioters...
Who says history doesn't repeat itself?
Do you honestly think Barry, Loretta, or Hitlery is going to call for the national guard? If they didn't after Dallas, then it just ain't gonna happen. These asshats could burn down a(nother) city in "protest" and the the politicians will continue believing that it's helping their cause for fundamental change.
Well change is a'comin'. This is the kind of change you get when you walk up to a sleeping bear and hit it on the nose. You're gonna get a reaction, it just might not do what you want it to do. The leftist anarchists think they're smarter than everyone else, but they have no idea what they're ushering in. I just hope I live long enough to see the confused look on lefty faces when this blows up the country and they go "This isn't what we wanted..."
Don't say we didn't warn you. Morons.
Singlestack Wonder
09-22-16, 13:09
Do you honestly think Barry, Loretta, or Hitlery is going to call for the national guard? If they didn't after Dallas, then it just ain't gonna happen. These asshats could burn down a(nother) city in "protest" and the the politicians will continue believing that it's helping their cause for fundamental change.
Well change is a'comin'. This is the kind of change you get when you walk up to a sleeping bear and hit it on the nose. You're gonna get a reaction, it just might not do what you want it to do. The leftist anarchists think they're smarter than everyone else, but they have no idea what they're ushering in. I just hope I live long enough to see the confused look on lefty faces when this blows up the country and they go "This isn't what we wanted..."
Don't say we didn't warn you. Morons.
Its not their decision to make. The Governor of NC commands the National Guard in his state.
Its not their decision to make. The Governor of NC commands the National Guard in his state.
Who is often more interested in staying in the good graces of his party and it's power brokers than what's best for the citizens of their state.
Averageman
09-22-16, 13:51
Who is often more interested in staying in the good graces of his party and it's power brokers than what's best for the citizens of their state.
I posted this in another thread here and I think it applies;
I honestly think we could pretty safely link about three threads we have going on here together.
This One, the Jersey Bomber and the Riots. Now you might think that's a stretch, but not if you might agree that there is an effort to fundamentally change America and not in a good way. I'm not saying a direct concerted effort, part of it is utter greed, the other utter incompetence and foolishness.
I think we are allowing immigration, lawlessness and poor Government practices in both foreign and domestic policy to drag us forward in to a destabilized economy and a Country that is divided and rolling toward anarchy.
Just my opinion, but it would seem I'm not the only one putting these pieces together here.
There is no "Doctor Evil" just a culture sliding toward failure, a lot of greed and some folks who couldn't lead if their lives depended on it, standing at the helm of our Nation.
It's not about outrage concerning a man being shot. There is no amount of stupid that will get you shot faster than having a gun in your hand and pointing it at or brandishing it during a police stop or interview. It is about a lot of selfish, greedy, power hungry people playing a very dangerous game.
Singlestack Wonder
09-22-16, 14:20
Who is often more interested in staying in the good graces of his party and it's power brokers than what's best for the citizens of their state.
Pat McCrory is the Governor of NC and is a Republican. Shouldn't be an issue in calling out the Guard and putting the animals down.
Pat McCrory is the Governor of NC and is a Republican. Shouldn't be an issue in calling out the Guard and putting the animals down.
And former mayor of Charlotte. He has some vested interest in this, one article suggests he is trying to not be heavy-handed and deferential to his Charlotte colleagues.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160922/f1f835057b8bd3d007652e2a1293f249.jpg
If the mob did something stupid, and he had to escalate to lethal force, he would have been perfectly legal in north Carolina.
Prefect demonstration of OODA loop and why just hoping for the best is a risky proposition at best, and you or loved ones deaded at worst.
Pat McCrory is the Governor of NC and is a Republican. Shouldn't be an issue in calling out the Guard and putting the animals down.
Can't say that alters my view in the least. He has more to lose to deploying them than not in terms of perceived long term political longevity if he has larger goals of office, etc. If the Guard shows up (and that's assuming they're actually allowed to carry any ammo...) and actually pops a few idiots, all hell will break lose. He's damned if he does and damned if he does not, but I'll bet he and his advisers view it as slightly less damned if he does not deploy the Guard at this point.
Deploying armed men in military clothes with evil black rifles to let chit heads know such behavior is not peaceful protest and not tolerated "will only inflame the situation"
Averageman
09-22-16, 14:55
Can't say that alters my view in the least. He has more to lose to deploying them than not in terms of perceived long term political longevity if he has larger goals of office, etc. If the Guard shows up (and that's assuming they're actually allowed to carry any ammo...) and actually pops a few idiots, all hell will break lose. He's damned if he does and damned if he does not, but I'll bet he and his advisers view it as slightly less damned if he does not deploy the Guard at this point.
Deploying armed men in military clothes with evil black rifles to let chit heads know such behavior is not peaceful protest and not tolerated "will only inflame the situation"
Move some vehicles in to block some roads behind the rioters and form your Police and National Guard units up in a tidy Phalanx with shields up Roman Legion/Greek style and march forward. Push, shove, run over and zip tie the hands of those who fall under the feet of the Phalanx.
If you want to Protest, that's fine, lets have an orderly and effective PROTEST. If you have an itch for some assault and battery, gun play, arson, robbery and mayhem, well lets revisit the 1960's.
Move some vehicles in to block some roads behind the rioters and form your Police and National Guard units up in a tidy Phalanx with shields up Roman Legion/Greek style and march forward. Push, shove, run over and zip tie the hands of those who fall under the feet of the Phalanx.
If you want to Protest, that's fine, lets have an orderly and effective PROTEST. If you have an itch for some assault and battery, gun play, arson, robbery and mayhem, well lets revisit the 1960's.
But that could lead to someone getting their feelings hurt you monster.
Averageman
09-22-16, 15:07
But that could lead to someone getting their feelings hurt you monster.
My Ex Brothers in Law, Cheech and Chong both told my Son to immediately check Craig's List for great deals on electronics right after riots. That kind of made me think not all of this stuff was outrage concerning a Brother being shot (No matter how much he might have deserved it) and more about money and greed.
Now if they would set the Bong down and get a job, they could pay retail, but that's another story.
I would like to see someone tie whomever is funding the Professional Rioters to their source for Cash and Travel expenses. Then a real DOJ would go arrest him on multiple charges of inciting this stuff.
If a Politician will not take direct action against these rioters, are we to think then to no small degree this is the price we pay to re elect the incompetent?
Where is all they nifty crowd control stuff anyway? Like those humvee mounted microwaves?
While Charlotte continues to burn, Tulsa has already charged the white female officer who shot an unarmed black man on Friday.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tulsa-police-officer-charged-mans-death-203750472.html
There have been no riots here, even though this case on the face of it is more inflammatory than the Charlotte case. It's literally a "tale of two cities" so to speak. Anyone who Knows DA Kunzweiler won't be shocked by this news, but I'm a little surprised the charges were determined before the death was officially certified and the toxicology reports are back.
#Winning
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20160916-dallas-police-sergeant-files-federal-lawsuit-accusing-black-lives-matter-leaders-of-inciting-anti-cop-violence.ece?extpar=dfw-m
Black cop suing BLM for inciting violence
Needs to happen in Charlotte, the community organizer clearly did the same there and made statements which turned out to be false
While Charlotte continues to burn, Tulsa has already charged the white female officer who shot an unarmed black man on Friday.
I was just reading about that, internal investigation hasn't even been completed yet.
While Charlotte continues to burn, Tulsa has already charged the white female officer who shot an unarmed black man on Friday.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tulsa-police-officer-charged-mans-death-203750472.html snip
Anyone who Knows DA Kunzweiler won't be shocked by this news, but I'm a little surprised the charges were determined before the death was officially certified and the toxicology reports are back.
The video did not look good from what I saw. Of course it does not show the critical moment, and she neglected to turn on or dash cam.
The trick will be whether the window was open or not. (It's reported to not have been)
I'm wondering if she meant to taser, I did not clean justification for lethal Force with the guy just not being responsive. I did not see any other threat justifying the escalation to lethal Force.
Even reaching in would be a judgement call unless they knew he had a gun in there. But that's just my citizen view. Certainly would be cause to be ready though.
Where is all they nifty crowd control stuff anyway? Like those humvee mounted microwaves?
I doubt they are cleared for use in the US (someone correct me if wrong there), but guys I spoke to who used them in Iraq said they worked well when they worked, but were down most of the time. Anyone confirm that?
The video did not look good from what I saw. Of course it does not show the critical moment, and she neglected to turn on or dash cam.
The trick will be whether the window was open or not. (It's reported to not have been)
I'm wondering if she meant to taser, I did not clean justification for lethal Force with the guy just not being responsive. I did not see any other threat justifying the escalation to lethal Force.
Even reaching in would be a judgement call unless they knew he had a gun in there. But that's just my citizen view. Certainly would be cause to be ready though.
I wondered if it was an ND actually. Of course from her angle, she may not have known the window was closed and other potential mitigating variables that can't be seen in the vids we are privy to so far.
The video did not look good from what I saw. Of course it does not show the critical moment, and she neglected to turn on or dash cam.
The trick will be whether the window was open or not. (It's reported to not have been)
I'm wondering if she meant to taser, I did not clean justification for lethal Force with the guy just not being responsive. I did not see any other threat justifying the escalation to lethal Force.
Even reaching in would be a judgement call unless they knew he had a gun in there. But that's just my citizen view. Certainly would be cause to be ready though.
My personal semi-educated guess is sympathetic response when the Taser next to her was triggered. I've spent quite a bit of time going over all available footage and from what I gleaned, both were deployed within a fraction of a second of each other. He continued to stand/lean against the SUV for approximately 12 seconds before he fell backwards, hence all the blood on the door.
All the officers state the window was down. the window up theory comes from a flawed analysis of the helicopter footage. In one frame, it does look like there may be blood on a rolled up window, but it somehow completely disappears in another frame. My take on that is what they see is the seatbelt against the seat. In the frame where the "blood" disappears, the angle is such that the seatbelt would be concealed behind the B pillar of the SUV. What is seen in the window frame is also much less well defined than the blood on the door skin, which reinforces what I believe to be the case.
My opinion is that she didn't intend to fire and even if she did, the reasonable use of lethal force standard hadn't yet been met. Had he withdrawn his hand even slightly or turned back towards them before the fatal shot was fired, it would shore up the mistaken but possibly reasonable justification for use of lethal force. If she knew she was going to have to shoot the man, she still pressed the trigger prematurely. Either way, it's a shit sandwich and everyone is gonna have to take a bite. :(
Without going OT of the flashpoint in Charlotte....
Tulsa was not really looking like, to me, a good shoot. I'm pro handling business moreso than most (to the Right of Dallas Stoudemire), but it didn't look good.
Looked like a pissant female cop who panicked and had she retained her composure; someone with a cooler head was prepared to have tased him. I am kinda "eeeehh" on a Taser because his car was ostensibly disabled and it might've been a talk it out. He wasn't being furtive and likely she said something bitchy to him and he was waiting for someone else. All you know is he's a guy with a broken down car. While I am "eeehhh" on Taser, at leadt he'd be alive to give his side. Most if not all dashcams come on automatically when you hit your blue lights.
I think she'd better get ready to plea and her dept ready to settle. They say they found a "PCP vial" after searching the car post shoot (which I hope they gotva warrant for) and she claims Drug Recognition proficiency. Hope the evidence, toxicology, and her personal training records reflect that.
Because fat black dudes don't do PCP. PCP has been replaced with Ketamine, much easier to get. Most people are into hashoil or keef. Plus someone on PCP/Special K wouldn't drop like a stone just from a lungshot. It would literally take a spinal hit. It just looks bad and I hope they have like some Matlock grade defense and forensics on this if thats the way they are going.
ETA Looks like she's already being charged with manslaughter. Her best hope is to plea it down to involuntary, sign all property over to family, and once done move and change her name.
Without going OT of the flashpoint in Charlotte....
Tulsa was not really looking like, to me, a good shoot. I'm pro handling business moreso than most (to the Right of Dallas Stoudemire), but it didn't look good.
Looked like a pissant female cop who panicked and had she retained her composure; someone with a cooler head was prepared to have tased him. I am kinda "eeeehh" on a Taser because his car was ostensibly disabled and it might've been a talk it out. He wasn't being furtive and likely she said something bitchy to him and he was waiting for someone else. All you know is he's a guy with a broken down car. While I am "eeehhh" on Taser, at leadt he'd be alive to give his side. Most if not all dashcams come on automatically when you hit your blue lights.
I think she'd better get ready to plea and her dept ready to settle. They say they found a "PCP vial" after searching the car post shoot (which I hope they gotva warrant for) and she claims Drug Recognition proficiency. Hope the evidence, toxicology, and her personal training records reflect that.
Because fat black dudes don't do PCP. PCP has been replaced with Ketamine, much easier to get. Most people are into hashoil or keef. Plus someone on PCP/Special K wouldn't drop like a stone just from a lungshot. It would literally take a spinal hit. It just looks bad and I hope they have like some Matlock grade defense and forensics on this if thats the way they are going.
She states the car was running and not disabled, which factored into her analysis of an altered state of mind. Also, legacy drugs such as heroin and PCP are making a strong comeback in the region. It's not outside the realm of possibility for her to have guessed correctly. He was up for about 12 seconds before dropping from a .40 hit. It was also a full on transverse shot, which brings multiple organs into play with a single round. They're BAD news.
The only thing that surprises me here is not waiting for the tox reports (both his and hers) and the autopsy results before determining what charge to use. It could've gone up or down with that info and not waiting brings the specter of political expediency into play, the way is was when Mosby was so quick to charge in Baltimore. BLM isn't the lead group in Tulsa, "We The People Oklahoma" is. They seem to be far more interested in peaceful protests than the BLM riot-fests we've seen elsewhere.
I'm not saying Kunzweiler has made the wrong call per se. It's the call I fully expected him to make once I really analyzed the information available. I don't think her "shots fired" radio call is going to help her appear to be in control. Not everyone is going to be fighter pilot cool after an OIS, but Kunzweiler is going to go after her on a negligent discharge angle and it certainly plays to his case.
Well the point of drugs is to get high. PCP gives you agency of action. Special K puts you down before too long. Heroin never goes out of style.
When I found out blacks were finally taking meth, then all bets were off. Historically it was either a mexican drug or a crazy white boy drug. Anyways, I would like to see the toxicology.
This shooting doesn't look totally cricket. She stated car was running and not disabled but it has also been stated car was running but not-drivable.
I got a hunch, right or wrong, that for whatever reason she escalated tension (alligator mouth, hummingbird butt) and while he may have been non-compliant, he wasn't agressive.
Regardless, I do see credence that it may have been sympathetic fire, but that likewise speaks ill to her level of competence. She has, from a few articles, a history herself of drug use as a young adult, domestic issues, and maybe 7 years (liberally) of experience. It appears she was investigated for drawing down on a humbug before.
Not a good thing to see.
I think the DA is actually being prudent here, Manslaughter is an appropriate charge and it looks prosecutable. Regardless of the officer's personal feelings, from video alone, it looks like an erroneous/negligent shoot.
I don't see her walking. I further think her best bet is a plea to a lesser manslaughter charge.
Something went wrong here. Call me sexist, but a LOT (not all but too many) female officers revert to female instead of remaining officer. Forget what FTO or some girl SGT tells you. Once you suit up, your girl privileges go out the window. You are an officer. Gender is irrelevant. If you think someone is too big to manhandle, wait for back up. Don't write checks your ass can't cash.
Females get a pass on home defence or domestic, and I am okay with that.
But when you are an officer of any stripe, playing the "scared female" is an affront to the office you took.
I been scared serving a warrant and on a bad stop before. You wouldn't know it and I wouldn't tell you. I damn sure wouldn't let Leroy and Damarion Daniels know. You do your business, haul em on, and get 10-8. Pick a day, phone a friend, and over a mojito tell em how "man I thought that dreadhead was gonna light my fat ass up with that Mossberg. Real talk"
and leave it there.
JMO
titsonritz
09-22-16, 18:08
I wondered if it was an ND actually. Of course from her angle, she may not have known the window was closed and other potential mitigating variables that can't be seen in the vids we are privy to so far.
I thought the same thing.
Where is all they nifty crowd control stuff anyway? Like those humvee mounted microwaves?
Those will only be unleashed for future 2nd Amendment rallies.
Turning left forever does not excite you?! :rolleyes:
Hey, there are straight-aways.
Well the point of drugs is to get high. PCP gives you agency of action. Special K puts you down before too long. Heroin never goes out of style.
When I found out blacks were finally taking meth, then all bets were off. Historically it was either a mexican drug or a crazy white boy drug. Anyways, I would like to see the toxicology.
This shooting doesn't look totally cricket. She stated car was running and not disabled but it has also been stated car was running but not-drivable.
I got a hunch, right or wrong, that for whatever reason she escalated tension (alligator mouth, hummingbird butt) and while he may have been non-compliant, he wasn't agressive.
Regardless, I do see credence that it may have been sympathetic fire, but that likewise speaks ill to her level of competence. She has, from a few articles, a history herself of drug use as a young adult, domestic issues, and maybe 7 years (liberally) of experience. It appears she was investigated for drawing down on a humbug before.
Not a good thing to see.
I think the DA is actually being prudent here, Manslaughter is an appropriate charge and it looks prosecutable. Regardless of the officer's personal feelings, from video alone, it looks like an erroneous/negligent shoot.
I don't see her walking. I further think her best bet is a plea to a lesser manslaughter charge.
Something went wrong here. Call me sexist, but a LOT (not all but too many) female officers revert to female instead of remaining officer. Forget what FTO or some girl SGT tells you. Once you suit up, your girl privileges go out the window. You are an officer. Gender is irrelevant. If you think someone is too big to manhandle, wait for back up. Don't write checks your ass can't cash.
Females get a pass on home defence or domestic, and I am okay with that.
But when you are an officer of any stripe, playing the "scared female" is an affront to the office you took.
I been scared serving a warrant and on a bad stop before. You wouldn't know it and I wouldn't tell you. I damn sure wouldn't let Leroy and Damarion Daniels know. You do your business, haul em on, and get 10-8. Pick a day, phone a friend, and over a mojito tell em how "man I thought that dreadhead was gonna light my fat ass up with that Mossberg. Real talk"
and leave it there.
JMO
Can I get an amen. Its a prevalent issue, but its absolutely verboten to speak of it. Fwiw, I've seen a lot of male officers with the same issues.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-22-16, 18:55
Where is all they nifty crowd control stuff anyway? Like those humvee mounted microwaves?
I'll bring the popcorn!!! Actually, if they just had a cell phone disruptor so they couldn't send out social media that would get most of them, the others could be lured away by Pokemon Go characters.
Tulsa shoot? Not a good shoot, but I don't know it was totally bad. The real problem with the window is if it was actually closed, that means LEOs are lying and then they are lucky they at least have the helo footage to back up a bit of their story. I just can't see LEOs saying the window was open when it was closed. If that is blood on the window, it is going to be REALLY clear what happened- and that is tampering with evidence.
That the car was not able to move, but was running was something that you can't tell if you are in the LEOs shoes, or heels ;). She couldn't have known that. I haven't seen if there was any verbal communication with driver. Was he 'special'? Someone walks around their abandoned car, doesn't follow or respond to commands and reaches inside his car. Maybe not a good shoot, but I'm that doesn't sound criminal. Having back up there that is deploying a taser, less reason to shoot. Add in a closed window. Yep, shouldn't have done that. I don't know what the legal break down is.
Has she made a statement yet? At this point, an ND or blaming the gun outright might be her best bet.
If he didn't respond to commands, was on PCP and the window was open- that is hard to see being criminal charges.
I'll bring the popcorn!!! Actually, if they just had a cell phone disruptor so they couldn't send out social media that would get most of them, the others could be lured away by Pokemon Go characters.
Tulsa shoot? Not a good shoot, but I don't know it was totally bad. The real problem with the window is if it was actually closed, that means LEOs are lying and then they are lucky they at least have the helo footage to back up a bit of their story. I just can't see LEOs saying the window was open when it was closed. If that is blood on the window, it is going to be REALLY clear what happened- and that is tampering with evidence.
That the car was not able to move, but was running was something that you can't tell if you are in the LEOs shoes, or heels ;). She couldn't have known that. I haven't seen if there was any verbal communication with driver. Was he 'special'? Someone walks around their abandoned car, doesn't follow or respond to commands and reaches inside his car. Maybe not a good shoot, but I'm that doesn't sound criminal. Having back up there that is deploying a taser, less reason to shoot. Add in a closed window. Yep, shouldn't have done that. I don't know what the legal break down is.
Has she made a statement yet? At this point, an ND or blaming the gun outright might be her best bet.
If he didn't respond to commands, was on PCP and the window was open- that is hard to see being criminal charges.
She's made a statement to the press via her attorney, laying out her justification for shooting. Hard to walk that back in the court of pubic opinion. I don't think the Chief is going to defend her, but that's just my opinion.
She's made a statement to the press via her attorney, laying out her justification for shooting. Hard to walk that back in the court of pubic opinion. I don't think the Chief is going to defend her, but that's just my opinion.
She's actually being intelligent about it by letting her lawyer do the talking. I think once the heat dies down, it'll be reduced from a felony manslaughter to misdemeanor involuntary. 6 months and some probation. Her POST is gone because I am sure by morning she will be formally terminated since she was charged tonight.
Do I think she woke up wanting to zap a black dude that morning? Absolutely not.
Do I think she made a grievous error? Yes I do. That helicopter footage is pretty hard to take and, again, police greasing legit shitsticks does not bother me at all. I think she, in her own way, turned at best obstructing traffic, obstructing an officer, and (erring in her favor) DUI drugs into a shitpuddle. I feel bad but not too bad. It's a thinking man's game.
Straight Shooter
09-22-16, 21:00
She's actually being intelligent about it by letting her lawyer do the talking. I think once the heat dies down, it'll be reduced from a felony manslaughter to misdemeanor involuntary. 6 months and some probation. Her POST is gone because I am sure by morning she will be formally terminated since she was charged tonight.
Do I think she woke up wanting to zap a black dude that morning? Absolutely not.
Do I think she made a grievous error? Yes I do. That helicopter footage is pretty hard to take and, again, police greasing legit shitsticks does not bother me at all. I think she, in her own way, turned at best obstructing traffic, obstructing an officer, and (erring in her favor) DUI drugs into a shitpuddle. I feel bad but not too bad. It's a thinking man's game.
DAMN. Ima PM you every time I have a problem...you sure know how to explain the fvck outta shit!! :):D
Moose-Knuckle
09-23-16, 03:34
Look at these five videos of the anarchists:
http://bluelivesmatter.blue/5-videos-define-wednesday-nights-charlotte-nc-riots/
I appreciate you posting that link Sam as we will all know the media and .gov will sweep these sort crimes under the rug in order to show the black militants in a good light as victimized protesters.
Moose-Knuckle
09-23-16, 03:43
I've posted about the DOJ's CRS agent provocateurs before in the Treyvon Martin threads and then again in the Ferguson/Micheal Brown Jr. threads.
DOJ Sends Same Unit to Charlotte That Helped Ferguson, Baltimore Rioters Organize
". . . a unit of progressive attorneys within the Department of Justice has been at the center of every significant riot during the Obama administration, and this unit -- the Community Relations Service, or CRS -- was not at those scenes to protect the safety of all citizens.
"In fact, the CRS was caught encouraging the chaos."
Despite the reasoning behind CRS's existence, their actions under the Obama administration and the Eric Holder/Loretta Lynch DOJ couldn't have strayed further from the mission.
Rather than "promote peaceful resolution," the CRS instead -- and always -- promotes resolution only in favor of the side fomenting violence.
https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/09/22/send-em-back-doj-sends-same-unit-to-charlotte-that-helped-ferguson-baltimore-rioters-organize/
Any relation to these folks?
http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/about
I met the director awhile back. I wasn't too impressed..
Averageman
09-23-16, 06:21
And now lets all say some stupid stuff.
http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/09/23/rep-robert-pittenger-sorry-for-saying-charlotte-protesters-hat/21477814/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D615256185_htmlws-sb-bb
A North Carolina congressman has apologized for saying the protesters in Charlotte "hate white people because white people are successful and they're not."
Rep. Robert Pittenger, a Republican, made the remarks in an interview with the BBC broadcast in the United Kingdom late Thursday.
The grievance in their mind is the animus, the anger," Pittenger told the program, referring to the protesters in Charlotte. "They hate white people because white people are successful and they're not."
Around two hours after giving the interview, Pittenger tweeted: "My anguish led me to respond to a reporter's question in a way that I regret."
He claimed he was "quoting statements made by angry protesters last night on national TV" and that his "intent was to discuss the lack of economic mobility for African-Americans because of failed policies."
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/22/exclusive-new-black-panther-chairman-whites-targeted-aint-no-fun-rabbit-gun/
“Only thing I can say is it ain’t no fun when the rabbit has the gun. And right now the black man is the rabbit.”
Those were the words of Babu Omowale, the so-called national chairman for the People’s New Black Panther Party, when he was asked by this reporter to comment on reports and video purporting to show blacks seeking out or targeting white men for violence during recent protests against police shootings.
Specifically, Omowale was asked what he thought of a video circulating on social media of a white man being beaten by black men purportedly in a Charlotte parking garage during the protests there.
He was also asked about the mentality displayed in videos of black protesters targeting white people during unrest in August in Milwaukee.
I asked in turn:
So are you saying that white people today in 2016 and that every white man needs to pay for the crimes of certain white individuals a century-and-a-half ago that have no relation whatsoever to what is going on today? Are you justifying that?
Omowale stated:
I’m not justifying anything. Nor did I use the term every white man or every white woman. That’s the term that you are using. What I am saying is that black men and women are tired of what they are seeing in this country.
The police department for the most part are not protecting. They are not serving in the black community. They are there to monitor the black community. And they are there to keep blacks in a certain social order. A certain social perspective. So until this thought process, until this system changes, you are going to continue to get people who is going to fight back for their basic freedoms. And that is their right to be a human being. And that is their right to live. People are going to fight back, man.
She's actually being intelligent about it by letting her lawyer do the talking. I think once the heat dies down, it'll be reduced from a felony manslaughter to misdemeanor involuntary. 6 months and some probation. Her POST is gone because I am sure by morning she will be formally terminated since she was charged tonight.
Do I think she woke up wanting to zap a black dude that morning? Absolutely not.
Do I think she made a grievous error? Yes I do. That helicopter footage is pretty hard to take and, again, police greasing legit shitsticks does not bother me at all. I think she, in her own way, turned at best obstructing traffic, obstructing an officer, and (erring in her favor) DUI drugs into a shitpuddle. I feel bad but not too bad. It's a thinking man's game.
I'll stick my neck out on this as I'm in the forbidden zone, but I think it's worth noting since nobody else has.
In regards to the tulsa incident, if you take the known circumstances and apply the case law provided in Graham v. Connor.....It ain't looking good for Betty. She would be well advised to take a plea deal if provided one.
The_War_Wagon
09-23-16, 07:35
I'm so old, I was out of college and working for a living in Charlotte, BEFORE the yankees came down and took over NC!
RE: Tulsa
If a cop kills someone and it turns out they should not have done so, that it an irreversible act. You can't bring the person back to life by saying "Gee, I screwed up". That cop should face the same exact penalties any other citizen would face for killing someone when they shouldn't have. Sure, people are human and make mistakes but the taking of a life unnecessarily is inexcusable. Sorry, the fact that their chosen profession puts them in predicaments that most other citizens wouldn't find themselves in is not an excuse to lessen what occurred. They chose their line of work, they weren't forced into it, and those precarious situations come along with the turf.
I'm hardly an anti-LEO individual; quite the contrary. It's just that to lend some semblance of legitimacy to our "justice" system ALL people in this country need to be held to the same set of standards without "special" categories. That goes as much for Hillary Clinton as it does Betty from the Tulsa PD.
RE: Tulsa
If a cop kills someone and it turns out they should not have done so, that it an irreversible act. You can't bring the person back to life by saying "Gee, I screwed up". That cop should face the same exact penalties any other citizen would face for killing someone when they shouldn't have. Sure, people are human and make mistakes but the taking of a life unnecessarily is inexcusable. Sorry, the fact that their chosen profession puts them in predicaments that most other citizens wouldn't find themselves in is not an excuse to lessen what occurred. They chose their line of work, they weren't forced into it, and those precarious situations come along with the turf.
I'm hardly an anti-LEO individual; quite the contrary. It's just that to lend some semblance of legitimacy to our "justice" system ALL people in this country need to be held to the same set of standards without "special" categories. That goes as much for Hillary Clinton as it does Betty from the Tulsa PD.
This is my exact stance. I usually end up getting flamed as being "anti-cop" though because of expressing this sentiment. Particularly when Ruby Ridge or Kelly Thomas come up.
Singlestack Wonder
09-23-16, 09:03
Can't say that alters my view in the least. He has more to lose to deploying them than not in terms of perceived long term political longevity if he has larger goals of office, etc. If the Guard shows up (and that's assuming they're actually allowed to carry any ammo...) and actually pops a few idiots, all hell will break lose. He's damned if he does and damned if he does not, but I'll bet he and his advisers view it as slightly less damned if he does not deploy the Guard at this point.
Deploying armed men in military clothes with evil black rifles to let chit heads know such behavior is not peaceful protest and not tolerated "will only inflame the situation"
NC Governor McCrory calls in the National Guard:
"Humvees pulled into Charlotte’s National Guard garrison, responding to a state of emergency declared by Gov. Pat McCrory, who also ordered the State Highway Patrol to reinforce troopers in Charlotte." Under the "Uptown Quite" section of the article...
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article103367547.html
This is my exact stance. I usually end up getting flamed as being "anti-cop" though because of expressing this sentiment. Particularly when Ruby Ridge or Kelly Thomas come up.
That doesn't make you anti-cop. To anyone who would accuse you of that I would pose a simple question: If it was your son/brother/father/wife who died unnecessarily at the hands of the police how would you feel? Would you shrug it off by saying "Oh well, they have a tough job. Mistakes will be made"? Don't think so and I'd doubt the truthfulness of anyone who says they would.
All that said, the vast majority of police shootings involve someone who damn well needed shooting.
This is my exact stance. I usually end up getting flamed as being "anti-cop" though because of expressing this sentiment. Particularly when Ruby Ridge or Kelly Thomas come up.
I agree. My only issue in the Tulsa case is procedural. The DA didn't bother to wait until any of the reports were completed to charge. Not tox, not the homicide investigator's, not the autopsy, nothing. That opens him up to being called a "Mosby", which he's not. The lead investigator for the PD is pissed. It's gonna turn into a fracas where none need have happened.
It's bad enough it was likely a bad shoot. No need to further politicize it. :(
I agree. My only issue in the Tulsa case is procedural. The DA didn't bother to wait until any of the reports were completed to charge. Not tox, not the homicide investigator's, not the autopsy, nothing. That opens him up to being called a "Mosby", which he's not. The lead investigator for the PD is pissed. It's gonna turn into a fracas where none need have happened.
It's bad enough it was likely a bad shoot. No need to further politicize it. :(
IMO, the DA....I think...
is actually HELPING the officer this way. Albeit bery roundabout. A charge tosses the proles a bone. No riots and marching. She was simply charged and made bail. The GJ won't be for a some months, expect a True Bill, and then the trial. Enough time will go by, the heat will lay off and she can take a plea to a misd. probably even a suspended sentence. It was a bad shoot. The helo video shows a bloodstained window rolled straight up with a good High Vel Splatter. The other officers on scene are not gonna lie and have likely been garritized by now and its all on her.
This has shades of the SC Trooper shooting. Panicky and poor judgement. She muddied her waters by saying she cleared vehicle and now wants to say he was going for a weapon. Eeeehhh....well her lawyer is doing what lawers do.
I think the DA is actually handling it well, defusing the "We gonna MARCH" crowd and buying time. She went with Manslaughter and not Murder.
What a lot of officers don't get told is that sometimes it is better to roll off. Don't just let them do something crazy but roll off. He hangs out by a car that she claimed to have cleared. Wait for another set of hands, eyes, and ears. Not everybody is your friend but not everybody is out to kill you either. You don't gotta force nothing until you absolutely have to. It's like that Bowie song Oxford Town now...."If I'd never met Ramona. If I'd only paid my bill".
Had she kept it together and not overreacted and relaxed, shit...He'd be alive, nobody would be dead. That'd be a win.
I feel poorly for all involved.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-23-16, 10:23
IMO, the DA....I think...
is actually HELPING the officer this way. Albeit bery roundabout. A charge tosses the proles a bone. No riots and marching. She was simply charged and made bail. The GJ won't be for a some months, expect a True Bill, and then the trial. Enough time will go by, the heat will lay off and she can take a plea to a misd. probably even a suspended sentence. It was a bad shoot. The helo video shows a bloodstained window rolled straight up with a good High Vel Splatter. The other officers on scene are not gonna lie and have likely been garritized by now and its all on her.
I thought that all the cops said the window was open? See, it it was open, then that opens up everything they said to question.
I thought that all the cops said the window was open? See, it it was open, then that opens up everything they said to question.
Watch the video. Not open. The sunroof was cracked. Plus in the unrecorded time, she stated ahe cleared the vehicle before subject became non-compliant.
It's a cluster
ETA the sunroof appeared cracked but that will be a super hard sell
I realize the goons would just cover their faces, but how I would love to see a Governor or someone with the power to do so already have a system in place so that when one of these riots kick off they flood the area with cameras. The more discreet the better. Send in teams of LE posing as media or bystanders recording the event. Prior to that anyone who receives ANY form of welfare or state/federal aid must have facial pictures on file with the state. Get all the video you can of the actors on the street. Hold back on first responders and give them a day or two to really show their ass. Then run facial recognition on all the footage recorded. Facial matches get flagged and they get cut off from any and all state/federal assistance for life.
I would love to see a Mayor or Governor get down and dirty with these goons. Get video or a picture of you blocking a road or interstate during a riot, drivers license is suspended for 10 years and banished from all forms of public transportation in that State. You can show your ass all you want but you will not show your ass and make use of State/City resources.
NC Governor McCrory calls in the National Guard:
"Humvees pulled into Charlotte’s National Guard garrison, responding to a state of emergency declared by Gov. Pat McCrory, who also ordered the State Highway Patrol to reinforce troopers in Charlotte." Under the "Uptown Quite" section of the article...
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article103367547.html
Good on him.. As expected, people already complaining it was too heavy handed, etc. As I said, damned if he does or does not in today's culture.
To anyone who would accuse you of that I would pose a simple question: If it was your son/brother/father/wife who died unnecessarily at the hands of the police how would you feel? Would you shrug it off by saying "Oh well, they have a tough job. Mistakes will be made"? Don't think so and I'd doubt the truthfulness of anyone who says they would.
I don't think it wise to generalize all families of all police-shooting victims as incapable of placing emotions to the side and saying "shit happens." I say that, because it's happened, albeit infrequently. Just as there have been families of those who have been justifiably shot who refuse to say, "that was a good, clean shoot," and still blame the police as being anti-whatever fill-in-the-blank.
I don't think it wise to generalize all families of all police-shooting victims as incapable of placing emotions to the side and saying "shit happens." I say that, because it's happened, albeit infrequently. Just as there have been families of those who have been justifiably shot who refuse to say, "that was a good, clean shoot," and still blame the police as being anti-whatever fill-in-the-blank.
No I was talking about a family member who it was determined was NOT justifiably shot (not the family's personal opinion of it but it being ruled unnecessary). I think I can pretty safely say that if someone was unjustifiably shot by the cops you'd be hard-pressed to find a family member willing to shrug it off.
Let's say my brother was shot by the police. Once the dust settles it is determined to be a bad shoot, a "We shouldn't have shot him, it was a mistake with bad judgement" type scenario. I'm NOT going to think "Well they have a tough job and sometimes mistakes happen". Not even close. No amount of $$$ or apologies is going to bring my brother back. I'd want a head on a platter so to speak if for no other reason than justice.
Averageman
09-23-16, 12:02
This is out of Philly;
http://abcnews.go.com/US/philadelphia-gunman-nicholas-glenn-police-hell-bent-hurting/story?id=42163424
A gunman who went on a shooting rampage through the streets of Philadelphia Friday night, killing one person and wounding three others including a police officer, was "hell-bent on hurting lot of people," the city's police commissioner said today.
The suspect, identified by investigators as Nicholas Glenn, was eventually cornered in an alley and fatally shot by police.
The wild chase and shooting spree began around 11:20 p.m. Friday when Sgt. Sylvia Young, a 19-year-police veteran, was ambushed while sitting in her patrol car in west Philadelphia, police said. The gunman fired 18 times at close range at Young, who was struck several times in the arm and protective vest, police said.
Officers hearing the gunshots began pursuing the shooter, who then fired five times into a nearby bar, hitting a security guard in the leg and injuring a woman. The suspect then shot an additional 14 times into a car, hitting a man and woman in the chest.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/philadelphia-gunman-ambushed-killed-civilian-identified-article-1.2796169
He fired into her open window without warning or provocation, Ross said.
Glenn fired off 18 rounds, eight of which struck Young in the arm and chest — but she survived because she was wearing a protective vest. A few bullets hit Young’s service weapon, disabling it, Ross said.
The gunman fled, and fired five times into a nearby bar, wounding a security guard and a patron.
18 rounds in to the car, Officer Young was hit eight times, most of that was caught in her vest, but not all.
In a time when we have Black Athletes taking a knee instead of standing for to honor our flag, She got out of her wheel chair to do so.
You likely wont hear a lot about this, it doesn't fit the narrative, but it is a prime example of how good we as a Nation of diverse backgrounds and good people can come together and help to keep each other stay safe and live prosperous lives.
I wonder if "Hands up don't shoot!" would have Saved her from being shot eight times, or if the BLM crowd gives a damn about Officer Young?
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-23-16, 12:32
I realize the goons would just cover their faces, but how I would love to see a Governor or someone with the power to do so already have a system in place so that when one of these riots kick off they flood the area with cameras. The more discreet the better. Send in teams of LE posing as media or bystanders recording the event. Prior to that anyone who receives ANY form of welfare or state/federal aid must have facial pictures on file with the state. Get all the video you can of the actors on the street. Hold back on first responders and give them a day or two to really show their ass. Then run facial recognition on all the footage recorded. Facial matches get flagged and they get cut off from any and all state/federal assistance for life.
I would love to see a Mayor or Governor get down and dirty with these goons. Get video or a picture of you blocking a road or interstate during a riot, drivers license is suspended for 10 years and banished from all forms of public transportation in that State. You can show your ass all you want but you will not show your ass and make use of State/City resources.
There is that, but what I really want to get at is these people claiming false facts on these shoots. From Ferguson to here, they always putout these outrageous claims. "Hand's up Don't shoot" is based on a complete lie about Michael Brown. Get these people to report the facts to police and then prosecute them when their claims end up false. There should be 10+ people in prison for the Michael Brown disinformation and false statements to cops.
There is that, but what I really want to get at is these people claiming false facts on these shoots. From Ferguson to here, they always putout these outrageous claims. "Hand's up Don't shoot" is based on a complete lie about Michael Brown. Get these people to report the facts to police and then prosecute them when their claims end up false. There should be 10+ people in prison for the Michael Brown disinformation and false statements to cops.
Totally agree. Most of these BLM causes are outright lies. The media repeats them to advance their agenda, and people believe them.
There is that, but what I really want to get at is these people claiming false facts on these shoots. From Ferguson to here, they always putout these outrageous claims. "Hand's up Don't shoot" is based on a complete lie about Michael Brown. Get these people to report the facts to police and then prosecute them when their claims end up false. There should be 10+ people in prison for the Michael Brown disinformation and false statements to cops.
It doesn't help that the Republican candidate for president is contributing to the misinformation by stating that the Tulsa suspect:
1) had his hands up - wrong
2) was doing everything he was supposed to do - wrong
I'm not saying that it was a good shoot. I am saying that national leaders need to STFU and let the pros complete the investigation.
Averageman
09-23-16, 14:40
It doesn't help that the Republican candidate for president is contributing to the misinformation by stating that the Tulsa suspect:
1) had his hands up - wrong
2) was doing everything he was supposed to do - wrong
I'm not saying that it was a good shoot. I am saying that national leaders need to STFU and let the pros complete the investigation.
The proper response to the question given to him was "Lets wait for all of the evidence to come in." to be honest in this environment that would have dropped even more cries about Trump being a racist.
Although not the perfect fielding I have a feeling he's being kept out of the loop as much as possible and has little more information than what Fox, CNN and MSNBC are releasing.
He called it like he saw it.
I believe this is new vid released. As you'll see/hear, his wife is clearly an upstanding quality human being:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/23/us/charlotte-keith-lamont-scott-shooting-wife-video/index.html
I believe this is new vid released. As you'll see/hear, his wife is clearly an upstanding quality human being:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/23/us/charlotte-keith-lamont-scott-shooting-wife-video/index.html
Objectively I don't know that the video says anything about character.
If they were thuggish pieces of shit, well that is probably what they would sound like. On the other hand, IF they were completely innocent and you just shot somebody's husband, she was actually pretty calm and composed and expletives should be expected.
But knowing what we know so far, that he did indeed have a gun, it is reasonable to believe she also knew that and was deliberately putting officers at risk by claiming he was unarmed and simply medicated. And that is worse than any four letter word coming out of her squawk box.
Man it's getting thick.
Was it this bad during the 60s? Real question, I wasn't there.
I was a lad when Rodney King happened and on the other side of the country. It seemed at the time like a fluke.
Road people: Be Careful. No such thing as a slug nor a coward anymore as far as I am concerned. This BS is not worth it.
RetroRevolver77
09-23-16, 17:42
Why are the cops letting thugs burn our cities down? I'm being serious. I thought they could dispatch rioters with live ammo once they start burning buildings.
Why are the cops letting thugs burn our cities down? I'm being serious. I thought they could dispatch rioters with live ammo once they start burning buildings.
The reality of it is that a 60's style response wouldn't fly today. A Chief or a Sheriff that would instruct their men to use lethal force against rioters would bring on immense civil and possibly criminal liability to the city and themselves.
In terms of using lethal force to stop an arsonist, my thoughts would be it was objectively reasonable if the building was believed to be occupied and there was no other reasonable means to stop the arsonist.
Absent the need to protect life, most officers really aren't anxious to put themselves through the trauma that is an officer involved shooting.
It was much, much worse during the 60's. Google the riots and read the extent of damage and high number of incidents. Denial of Civil Rights, forced segregation, and such fueled much of the protests. Police beatings a la King and aggressive use of attack dogs against the other side were widespread, especially in the Deep South. White supremacy groups blowing up black churches sometimes occurred. One such dynamite bomb exploded within 1 mile of my house, and several others blew up within 15 miles of my house.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-23-16, 19:42
Now it's all the Progressive dumbasses bleeting about how the NRA isn't protecting this black guys right to open carry. He's brandishing, not open carrying you twits.
Them talking about guns and firearm laws is like me talking about skinny jeans and designer flannel.
FWIW BLM is having a protest in Atl this weekend. I've heard rumblings that they plan on shutting down 85, 75 & 20.
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/207414118-story
FWIW BLM is having a protest in Atl this weekend. I've heard rumblings that they plan on shutting down 85, 75 & 20.
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/207414118-story
Not planning to be anywhere near the big 3 interstates inside the perimeter this weekend.
FWIW BLM is having a protest in Atl this weekend. I've heard rumblings that they plan on shutting down 85, 75 & 20.
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/207414118-story
And one day....somebody just wont stop.
Outlander Systems
09-23-16, 21:11
Word. I'll be up in, "To Moonshine" territory.
#Naw
#NotGoingDowntownEvenIfYouPaidMe
#Deuces
#LiftingWeightsAndFlyingDronesAndChattingOnHamRadio
#GettinMyKayakOn
Not planning to be anywhere near the big 3 interstates inside the perimeter this weekend.
And one day....somebody just wont stop.
Just sitting here watching A Good Day to Die Hard with the huge APC rampaging through Moscow and thinking the same thing.
Another thing that should be obvious at this point is if there are still groups like the Klan around they are by and large not what they were in the first half of the 1900's. It has long been said that 1 in 4 KKK members is a UC Fed or CI. Maybe, maybe not. But the thing that is obvious to me is with all this rioting in the deep south there is little to no push back from the white BLM/BPP counterpart. They love to say how the South is chock full of white racist and through stereotypish bs stories want you to believe that the average black man is not safe from LE or the Klan riding around in the South after dark. But look at reality, the only viable hate group out there hating on people in 2016 is BLM/BPP. I am not saying there are no bad whites out there capable of evil, just that if there are they are sitting this one out when you would think this would be their time.
I was reading up on Huey P Newton earlier. What I found interesting was his trip to China. In the 70's he was invited there before a sitting US President. Supposedly he was shown a lot of love by the communist. That makes a lot of sense when you look at the types of people in 2016 who support these groups. I have no doubt there is more going on with this "movement" than the average American can comprehend at this point.
Like FF said, anyone working the road in any capacity; LE, EMS, Fire....be careful.
RetroRevolver77
09-23-16, 22:03
The reality of it is that a 60's style response wouldn't fly today. A Chief or a Sheriff that would instruct their men to use lethal force against rioters would bring on immense civil and possibly criminal liability to the city and themselves.
In terms of using lethal force to stop an arsonist, my thoughts would be it was objectively reasonable if the building was believed to be occupied and there was no other reasonable means to stop the arsonist.
Absent the need to protect life, most officers really aren't anxious to put themselves through the trauma that is an officer involved shooting.
Well then we need to disband the police for failing at their duties.
This is why the militia is needed, shoot every rioter and anyone causing damage to property.
Mr. Goodtimes
09-26-16, 08:38
Well then we need to disband the police for failing at their duties.
This is why the militia is needed, shoot every rioter and anyone causing damage to property.
I often wonder these days of this isn't all being orchestrated by the powers that be on the left as a means to creat s federal police force and take away guns.
I'm wondering if they're utilizing every one of these shootings they can to insight riots, hoping that eventually they'll go outside the center of the city and these idiots will start getting shot when people decide this shit isn't going to fly in their neighborhood. Now you have the cops AND crazy vigilantes shooting these peaceful protestors... That's going to be there argument for gun control.
Then they'll argue they need a national police force because obviously the locals can't keep these riots under control.
Does it really sound that far fetched? I came up with that theory after a scoop of pre workout while taking a dump... And I usually come up with all my best ideas that way.
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I often wonder these days of this isn't all being orchestrated by the powers that be on the left as a means to creat s federal police force and take away guns.
I'm wondering if they're utilizing every one of these shootings they can to insight riots, hoping that eventually they'll go outside the center of the city and these idiots will start getting shot when people decide this shit isn't going to fly in their neighborhood. Now you have the cops AND crazy vigilantes shooting these peaceful protestors... That's going to be there argument for gun control.
Then they'll argue they need a national police force because obviously the locals can't keep these riots under control.
Does it really sound that far fetched? I came up with that theory after a scoop of pre workout while taking a dump... And I usually come up with all my best ideas that way.
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I think Soros and the like are funding BLM to keep black voter turnout as high as the last two elections.
Averageman
09-26-16, 12:13
How do you have a curfew if you don't arrest those who break it?
Peaceful Protest or not, it either is or isn't a curfew.
An orange tiger striped Arwen full of CS and skipshot would get people gone.
Update:
News reported that the wife of the person that was shot by police filed a restraining order against him last October. She was afraid of him, his potential for violence and his carrying of firearm.
Hmmm ...
Averageman
09-27-16, 11:16
Update:
News reported that the wife of the person that was shot by police filed a restraining order against him last October. She was afraid of him, his potential for violence and his carrying of firearm.
Hmmm ...
I bet that cost her a lot of money.
Update:
News reported that the wife of the person that was shot by police filed a restraining order against him last October. She was afraid of him, his potential for violence and his carrying of firearm.
Hmmm ...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/27/charlotte-man-shot-by-police-claimed-was-killer-wife-said-in-court-records.html
He beat and stabbed her several times. He also beat his kids and threatened to kill his family. In addition, I queried the NC DPS database for Keith Lamont Scott and came back with the following:
1) 2002 resisting an officer and possion of Schedule IV
2) 2002 felony larceny
3) 2004 resisting an officer
4) 2006 assault on a female
5) 2006 robbery with a dangerous weapon, assault with a deadly weapon, inmate in possession of a weapon
He also went by multiple aliases: Kevin Scott, Gangsta, and Hitman
Is it too late to send a thank you package to the officers?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/27/charlotte-man-shot-by-police-claimed-was-killer-wife-said-in-court-records.html
He beat and stabbed her several times. He also beat his kids and threatened to kill his family. In addition, I queried the NC DPS database for Keith Lamont Scott and came back with the following:
1) 2002 resisting an officer and possion of Schedule IV
2) 2002 felony larceny
3) 2004 resisting an officer
4) 2006 assault on a female
5) 2006 robbery with a dangerous weapon, assault with a deadly weapon, inmate in possession of a weapon
He also went by multiple aliases: Kevin Scott, Gangsta, and Hitman
Is it too late to send a thank you package to the officers?
never too late for thank you package.
if that wasn't the guy they were after when they showed up, I would hate to see the guy they were after
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Averageman
09-27-16, 13:23
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/27/charlotte-man-shot-by-police-claimed-was-killer-wife-said-in-court-records.html
He beat and stabbed her several times. He also beat his kids and threatened to kill his family. In addition, I queried the NC DPS database for Keith Lamont Scott and came back with the following:
1) 2002 resisting an officer and possion of Schedule IV
2) 2002 felony larceny
3) 2004 resisting an officer
4) 2006 assault on a female
5) 2006 robbery with a dangerous weapon, assault with a deadly weapon, inmate in possession of a weapon
He also went by multiple aliases: Kevin Scott, Gangsta, and Hitman
Is it too late to send a thank you package to the officers?
If there was ever a case where fate stepped in and took over, this might be it.
Whiskey_Bravo
09-27-16, 14:15
Update:
News reported that the wife of the person that was shot by police filed a restraining order against him last October. She was afraid of him, his potential for violence and his carrying of firearm.
Hmmm ...
She even listed that he carried a black 9mm
She even listed that he carried a black 9mm
The gun I saw a pic of was a Colt Mustang .380.
http://downtrend.com/71superb/keith-scott-was-illegally-carrying-a-firearm-when-cops-shot-him
Whiskey_Bravo
09-27-16, 14:45
Just meant that she was fairly specific on a gun, not just "i saw him with a gun one time". He wasn't supposed to have a gun anyway(felon), so more than likely whatever he had was stolen anyway.
The gun I saw a pic of was a Colt Mustang .380.
At least the LEOs didn't have anything to worry about then. :dance3:
Just meant that she was fairly specific on a gun, not just "i saw him with a gun one time". He wasn't supposed to have a gun anyway(felon), so more than likely whatever he had was stolen anyway.
That has already been confirmed.
platoonDaddy
09-27-16, 16:46
Hagerstown is about 50 miles NW of DC, loaded with good old-boys.
Diesel vs BLM supporting Charlotte rioters
Check out video: http://freedomoutpost.com/hilarious-watch-what-these-rednecks-do-to-a-blm-protest-crowd/ skip to 1:18 of video
So all these BS over the police wiping out a shitstick, then?
BLM better get to work cleaning up the streets, reimbursing the State/County for man hour time spent, put on that Revenge of the Nerds "Put one foot in front of the other" song on and clean up the messes they caused.
Handwritten apologies to every last individual inconvenienced during their piss parade would be a classy touch as well
So all these BS over the police wiping out a shitstick, then?
BLM better get to work cleaning up the streets, reimbursing the State/County for man hour time spent, put on that Revenge of the Nerds "Put one foot in front of the other" song on and clean up the messes they caused.
Handwritten apologies to every last individual inconvenienced during their piss parade would be a classy touch as well
Meanwhile, the questionable shoot got no where near as much attention.
Meanwhile, the questionable shoot got no where near as much attention.
This too.
Focus on bullshit, ignore real shit.
Way too common a phenomenae here lately
Moose-Knuckle
09-28-16, 04:04
Meanwhile, the questionable shoot got no where near as much attention.
That has a lot to do with demographics. Tulsa, OK is not Charlotte, NC. BLM was in Tulsa attempting to instigate anarchy but they just didn't have the population do pull it off.
My hope is more and more people wake up to the fact that these black militants riot/loot/arson and attack whites and LE even when it comes out that the shoot was justified. They don't care because they themselves and probably everyone they know and or are related to are part of what one black CLEO refers to as a culture of criminality. This is all about being feral and throwing out the rule of law. It's disgusting and Obama along with Hilary the DOJ, the media, etc. have all set race relations back in this country by supporting them and bolstering "their cause" to bring about social engineering goals.
Averageman
09-28-16, 06:06
That has a lot to do with demographics. Tulsa, OK is not Charlotte, NC. BLM was in Tulsa attempting to instigate anarchy but they just didn't have the population do pull it off.
My hope is more and more people wake up to the fact that these black militants riot/loot/arson and attack whites and LE even when it comes out that the shoot was justified. They don't care because they themselves and probably everyone they know and or are related to are part of what one black CLEO refers to as a culture of criminality. This is all about being feral and throwing out the rule of law. It's disgusting and Obama along with Hilary the DOJ, the media, etc. have all set race relations back in this country by supporting them and bolstering "their cause" to bring about social engineering goals.
I think the people in Tulsa have a totally different mind-set also. Perhaps they see the hypocrisy and simply didn't want it to happen there. I also would guess population numbers might also not be favorable to an outcome without some great potential for violence against protesters.
I still say, one day this is going to spill over in to some middle class neighborhoods and turn in to the kind of battlefield we haven't seen before.
My hope is more and more people wake up to the fact that these black militants riot/loot/arson and attack whites and LE even when it comes out that the shoot was justified. They don't care because they themselves and probably everyone they know and or are related to are part of what one black CLEO refers to as a culture of criminality. This is all about being feral and throwing out the rule of law. It's disgusting and Obama along with Hilary the DOJ, the media, etc. have all set race relations back in this country by supporting them and bolstering "their cause" to bring about social engineering goals.
Amen. I've been saying that for a while; BLM is nothing more than the propaganda arm of America's disorganized crime movement. Occupy Wall Street was ineffective because not enough people could relate to rich baiting. So, they switched to race baiting. Their mission: weaken America's law enforcement institutions to make life easier for the average criminal.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-29-16, 06:55
Amen. I've been saying that for a while; BLM is nothing more than the propaganda arm of America's disorganized crime movement. Occupy Wall Street was ineffective because not enough people could relate to rich baiting. So, they switched to race baiting. Their mission: weaken America's law enforcement institutions to make life easier for the average criminal.
It sure does seem like that and maybe that is on the minds of people like Soros and the true believers, but I can't believe that these people in the street are trying to make their neighborhoods more dangerous- that is unless they really believe that cops are more dangerous than the criminals. In that case, F them. Stupid should hurt.
From an ABCnews article:
On Sept. 20, police in Charlotte, North Carolina, fatally shot 43-year-old Keith Lamont Scott, who investigators said was holding a handgun. On Sept. 16, police in Tulsa, Oklahoma, shot and killed 40-year-old Terence Crutcher, who was unarmed. The officer who shot Crutcher has been charged in his death and will make her first court appearance on Friday.
Interesting asymmetry in that 'unarmed' is absolute and unqualified, but 'armed' is always modified with a qualifier. Also, see the passive "holding a gun", not the reality of "not following orders and threatening police officers". It would be far more accurate to balance things. This verbiage always makes it sound like these guys were walking down the street and popped at random. USe "Acting erratically", "Not following instructions (don't use commands)", "made threatening movements and statements".
Mr. Goodtimes
09-29-16, 08:55
That has a lot to do with demographics. Tulsa, OK is not Charlotte, NC. BLM was in Tulsa attempting to instigate anarchy but they just didn't have the population do pull it off.
My hope is more and more people wake up to the fact that these black militants riot/loot/arson and attack whites and LE even when it comes out that the shoot was justified. They don't care because they themselves and probably everyone they know and or are related to are part of what one black CLEO refers to as a culture of criminality. This is all about being feral and throwing out the rule of law. It's disgusting and Obama along with Hilary the DOJ, the media, etc. have all set race relations back in this country by supporting them and bolstering "their cause" to bring about social engineering goals.
The ironic part is that when all the social engineering is done and the people's democratic national police force has been created, they'll squash these people and their riots like flies. I believe something similar happened in the Russian Revolution. The commies armed all the poor people in order to overthrow the rich disgusting capitalists, only to disarm and oppress those same people once they had assumed power and created their own government class (the new wealthy class).
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Averageman
09-29-16, 10:46
The ironic part is that when all the social engineering is done and the people's democratic national police force has been created, they'll squash these people and their riots like flies. I believe something similar happened in the Russian Revolution. The commies armed all the poor people in order to overthrow the rich disgusting capitalists, only to disarm and oppress those same people once they had assumed power and created their own government class (the new wealthy class).
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purges_of_the_Communist_Party_of_the_Soviet_Union
In itself, the term was innocent enough: between 1921 and 1933 in the Soviet Union, for example, some 800,000 people were purged or left the party, but suffered no worse fate. But from 1936 onwards, during the Great Purge, the connotations of the term changed, because being expelled from the party came to mean almost certain arrest, imprisonment or even execution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge
Another justification for the purge was to remove any possible "fifth column" in case of a war. Vyacheslav Molotov and Lazar Kaganovich, participants in the repression as members of the Politburo, maintained this justification throughout the purge; they each signed many death lists.[15] Stalin believed war was imminent, threatened both by an explicitly hostile Germany and an expansionist Japan. The Soviet press portrayed the country as threatened from within by fascist spies.[16]
From what I have read, the finding of mass graves is not uncommon in Moscow.
As soon as the Revolutionaries that brought you to power are no longer useful, it's best to kill them quickly before they change their minds about you.
It sure does seem like that and maybe that is on the minds of people like Soros and the true believers, but I can't believe that these people in the street are trying to make their neighborhoods more dangerous- that is unless they really believe that cops are more dangerous than the criminals. In that case, F them. Stupid should hurt.
It is actually much like Islamic terror - not every Muslim is a militant Islamist just like not every black person is recidivist criminal. However, enough from both camps are that you had better pay attention. It helps to think of it in concentric circles:
1) At the core you have habitual, violent felons which comprise about 10% of the male African American population. These are the gang bangers, drug dealers, and people like Keith Scott.
2) The next layer are the non-violent felons and one-time offenders who are another 20% of the AA population (assuming 1/3 of adult black males are ineligible to vote due to a prior felony conviction). While they are not assaulting cops, they are still part of a criminal underbelly that harms the black community with activities such as prostitution, petty theft, and substance abuse.
The BLM is beholden to these first two layers and is their propaganda arm.
3) Outside of the criminal layers, you have impoverished blacks who are locked into a viscous cycle of poor education, illegitimacy, and welfare. These people are the targets of the BLM propaganda as they supply the ranks of the inner circle. In other words, the layers are not static and individuals can move in and out of the levels over the course of a lifetime. It is also necessary for the criminal layers to win the support and sympathies of this layer so they can perpetuate their criminal lifestyle. BLM does this through transference and projection - the responsibility for poverty and crime is projected on the wealthy and privileged. Both major parties are now complicit in this and are attempting to co-opt elements of BLM for their own political gain, but the Dems are much, much better.
4) The last layer is a functional black community which unfortunately represents less than half of the black population. These are people who pay taxes, graduate HS, and have meaningful interactions within society. Even members of this layer have sympathies with parts of the BLM movement from when they were part of an inner layer.
So, you've got about half of the black community stuck in a quagmire of shit. Making matters worse, the white and Hispanic inner circles are growing. If you doubt me, come on down to an Emergency Department waiting room in rural NC, WV, KY or TN. Hell, go on down to Broward's ED in Fort Lauterdale. Notice the parade of white and Hispanic freaks with confederate tattoos on their necks and MS-13 tats on their chest. Visit the trailer parks and see for yourself. The plague is spreading and all parties (yes, even Gary Johnson) are contributing to it.
Averageman
09-29-16, 14:30
So, you've got about half of the black community stuck in a quagmire of shit. Making matters worse, the white and Hispanic inner circles are growing. If you doubt me, come on down to an Emergency Department waiting room in rural NC, WV, KY or TN. Hell, go on down to Broward's ED in Fort Lauterdale. Notice the parade of white and Hispanic freaks with confederate tattoos on their necks and MS-13 tats on their chest. Visit the trailer parks and see for yourself. The plague is spreading and all parties (yes, even Gary Johnson) are contributing to it.
This was my observation when I was Teaching.
When a Culture fails, it isn't satisfied with simply taking itself out of the picture, it glorifies failure and degradation and folks seem to flock to it. I'm not sure exactly why everyone seems to want to jump on that bandwagon, it would however seem that they do.
It was often very reveling when a parent who wouldn't come in for any other reason, managed to show up when the kid was either about to be held back a year, arrested for something at school or was in something that CPS got involved in. Let's just say the Apple isn't usually falling too far from the Tree.
In my opinion the organization of BLM was a stroke of genius. No clear leaders, no clear membership, just jump in to the riot and yell "Hands up Don't Shoot." So when you want to find out who organized this to put some charges on someone for inciting a riot, who do you charge?
It is actually much like Islamic terror - not every Muslim is a militant Islamist just like not every black person is recidivist criminal. However, enough from both camps are that you had better pay attention. It helps to think of it in concentric circles:
1) At the core you have habitual, violent felons which comprise about 10% of the male African American population. These are the gang bangers, drug dealers, and people like Keith Scott.
2) The next layer are the non-violent felons and one-time offenders who are another 20% of the AA population (assuming 1/3 of adult black males are ineligible to vote due to a prior felony conviction). While they are not assaulting cops, they are still part of a criminal underbelly that harms the black community with activities such as prostitution, petty theft, and substance abuse.
The BLM is beholden to these first two layers and is their propaganda arm.
3) Outside of the criminal layers, you have impoverished blacks who are locked into a viscous cycle of poor education, illegitimacy, and welfare. These people are the targets of the BLM propaganda as they supply the ranks of the inner circle. In other words, the layers are not static and individuals can move in and out of the levels over the course of a lifetime. It is also necessary for the criminal layers to win the support and sympathies of this layer so they can perpetuate their criminal lifestyle. BLM does this through transference and projection - the responsibility for poverty and crime is projected on the wealthy and privileged. Both major parties are now complicit in this and are attempting to co-opt elements of BLM for their own political gain, but the Dems are much, much better.
4) The last layer is a functional black community which unfortunately represents less than half of the black population. These are people who pay taxes, graduate HS, and have meaningful interactions within society. Even members of this layer have sympathies with parts of the BLM movement from when they were part of an inner layer.
So, you've got about half of the black community stuck in a quagmire of shit. Making matters worse, the white and Hispanic inner circles are growing. If you doubt me, come on down to an Emergency Department waiting room in rural NC, WV, KY or TN. Hell, go on down to Broward's ED in Fort Lauterdale. Notice the parade of white and Hispanic freaks with confederate tattoos on their necks and MS-13 tats on their chest. Visit the trailer parks and see for yourself. The plague is spreading and all parties (yes, even Gary Johnson) are contributing to it.
IMO, the greatest disservice the BLM's and race grievance industry do to the black communities, is when they attempt to illegitimately redefine acceptable community standards. It is NOT OK to steal. It is NOT OK to rape. It is NOT OK to loot, burn, pillage, use violence or physically intimidate others into acceptance of utterly unacceptable standards of behavior. It's not even OK to redefine the English language (ebonics) and expect it to be accepted anywhere beyond the street corner! The same goes for wearing your waistband halfway to your knees. SMH
It's like they're trying to pull a Jedi mind trick on everyone, but they've got no connection to "The Force" beyond their arrest record. :(
https://i.imgflip.com/1bhvzb.jpg
I'll stick my neck out on this as I'm in the forbidden zone, but I think it's worth noting since nobody else has.
In regards to the tulsa incident, if you take the known circumstances and apply the case law provided in Graham v. Connor.....It ain't looking good for Betty. She would be well advised to take a plea deal if provided one.
Tulsa shooting still doesn't meet Graham v. Connor standards, but I can't say I'm suprised
http://www.officer.com/news/12268190/autopsy-man-killed-by-officer-was-on-pcp
Tulsa shooting still doesn't meet Graham v. Connor standards, but I can't say I'm suprised
http://www.officer.com/news/12268190/autopsy-man-killed-by-officer-was-on-pcp
High as a kite on PCP and disobeying lawful orders. Yet, still described by some as, "looked like he did everything you're supposed to do...and he looked like a really good man."
Eurodriver
10-12-16, 08:57
We need a way to deal with these scenarios that doesn't involve killing someone.
Whiskey_Bravo
10-12-16, 09:00
We need a way to deal with these scenarios that doesn't involve killing someone.
I vote for these....
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/0/0a/Running_man_net_gun.JPG/600px-Running_man_net_gun.JPG http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/1/14/Running_man_net_gun3.JPG/600px-Running_man_net_gun3.JPG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkAlbKlOiQQ
Averageman
10-12-16, 09:55
We need a way to deal with these scenarios that doesn't involve killing someone.
I'm not sure what you are going to use in a case like this PCP is some weird stuff, some might be a hallucinogen and another batch might be more like an amphetamine the next might be a mix of the two.
This was a lot more prevalent in the mid to late 70's and there were a lot of very violent reactions to PCP. I'm not sure that if his blood pressure was elevated and he was tripping pretty hard he might not have had a cardiac event, stroke or just started fighting like hell if he was gang tackled or hit with a tazer.
The guy had his vehicle parked in the middle of the road, if he was firing on all of his mental cylinders he would have likely made it off the side of the road and got out of traffic.
Early in this story it was said he was on his way to pick up some kids from school. All I can think of is Thank God he didn't get them in that vehicle while he was high as a kite.
You start delving in to some bathtub pharmacology and you are never going to be sure of what you are getting. I can't say these people deserve the bad things that happen in a case like this, but I can say, Do stupid Shi+ and win the stupid prize. Which in this case, deserving of it or not he got a body bag.
We need a way to deal with these scenarios that doesn't involve killing someone.
I say bring in Pepe Le Pew...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x72yun_israeli-skunk-spray-weapon_news
High as a kite on PCP and disobeying lawful orders. Yet, still described by some as, "looked like he did everything you're supposed to do...and he looked like a really good man."
Tulsa shooting still doesn't meet Graham v. Connor standards, but I can't say I'm suprised
http://www.officer.com/news/12268190/autopsy-man-killed-by-officer-was-on-pcp
His being high on PCP doesn't justify use of deadly force at the time it was used.
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Whiskey_Bravo
10-12-16, 12:01
I say bring in Pepe Le Pew...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x72yun_israeli-skunk-spray-weapon_news
I like it.
Averageman
10-12-16, 12:21
His being high on PCP doesn't justify use of deadly force at the time it was used.
But it certainly might explain erratic behavior, speech, aggression and any number of physical and emotional side effects that may make someone very afraid of having to deal with them.
Depending on the amount of PCP and the strength of that PCP (remember the folks at Bayer aren't cooking this up) there is no possible way to determine what his actions might be.
In this specific case we apparently had an Officer who when confronted with this man in this situation feared for her life enough to draw her gun.
I cannot say what She did was warranted, but I can say her confusion and fear at his actions may well have been. I don't have enough evidence that She did or did not intend to shoot, but it would appear that when in fear, She drew and fired either with intent or a Negligent Discharge.
If you think drinking and driving is enough to get someone five years in prison, what should doing some PCP and getting behind the wheel cost you? Remember in the original story he was going to get some kids at school and give them a ride home.
I'm just saying, if you want to do some Brand X street drugs and sit at the house and watch the walls melt, well I don't have a problem with that, it's your possible death.
When you get behind the wheel while your high as a damned kite on PCP, well you just are as dumb as a sack of wet socks, in this case it cost him his life, deservingly or not.
I think they used to call this type of stupidity "Death by Misadventure."
Averageman
10-12-16, 12:37
I like it.
NSFW
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fac_1372133667
I don't think being stinky is going to bother a guy this high.
His being high on PCP doesn't justify use of deadly force at the time it was used.
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You are correct. Simply being high is not a reason for the cops to kill you. However, erratic behavior, disregarding lawful orders, and certain "furtive" movements such as attempting to reach in a car may justify lethal force under very narrow set of circumstances. Moreover, dealing with an intoxicated suspect who is high on a hallucinogenic drug is pertinent to the officer's state of mind.
That is why we have mechanisms such as thorough investigations, grand jury proceedings, and trials to determine when lethal force is justified. Thus, it would be very helpful if all of the race baiters and political hacks would STFU and stop trying to paint a false narrative before the process has even begun.
Averageman
10-12-16, 12:44
You are correct. Simply being high is not a reason for the cops to kill you. However, erratic behavior, disregarding lawful orders, and certain "furtive" movements such as attempting to reach in a car may justify lethal force under very narrow set of circumstances. Moreover, dealing with an intoxicated suspect who is high on a hallucinogenic drug is pertinent to the officer's state of mind.
That is why we have mechanisms such as thorough investigations, grand jury proceedings, and trials to determine when lethal force is justified. Thus, it would be very helpful if all of the race baiters and political hacks would STFU and stop trying to paint a false narrative before the process has even begun.
Very well put and also very true.
NSFW
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fac_1372133667
I don't think being stinky is going to bother a guy this high.
Nah, just kick him in the knee or poke him in the eye. He'll stop...I swear.
Being high isnt a crime in and of itself.
She stated earlier that in initial, unrecorded contact that the vehicle had been cleared.
Still a bad shoot. You may as well take a suppressed 6933 and a ruck full of 60 rounders if we are gonna kill all dopers. Expect long days.
Stop hiring all these pissant, badge bunny, squad princess females. This isn't a "you can do it" Disney show.
Sometimes you gotta go hands on. Other times taser. He still could have died from excited delirium, but that would've been more easily defensible.
Again, to the Right of Stoudenmire here and still have to say it doesn't look good.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-12-16, 18:08
Was the window open or not- definitively, not from blurry video. Not saying she is going to get off with an open window and PCP, but it is a better story to tell.
Averageman
10-12-16, 18:29
I honestly think you could take the posts on this page and find a happy medium and a lot of experience.
Was he high as a kite and did he scare the Officer?
At what point in fear, do you fear for your life and draw your weapon?
Is ingesting some PCP before getting behind the wheel right before you go pick up the kids at school a good idea?
Should there be two separate standards for Male and Female Police Officers?
If you are so afraid in this situation that your default setting is shooting the guy, do you really need to be a Cop?
She's likely to be found guilty in this case, in all honesty if She couldn't handle the pressure, She made a very bad career choice and is now likely to pay for it. He made some very bad decisions that day, but I believe he had a history of bad decisions. If you have poor impulse control and default to drugs and or alcohol and end up in jail for some time, do we really want to give you an early release because you are deemed "Non-Violent"?
This is a lot like Zimmerman in a way, two fools meet in a sketchy situation and one of them is intoxicated and dies. Bad decision making all around.
You are correct. Simply being high is not a reason for the cops to kill you. However, erratic behavior, disregarding lawful orders, and certain "furtive" movements such as attempting to reach in a car may justify lethal force under very narrow set of circumstances. Moreover, dealing with an intoxicated suspect who is high on a hallucinogenic drug is pertinent to the officer's state of mind.
That is why we have mechanisms such as thorough investigations, grand jury proceedings, and trials to determine when lethal force is justified. Thus, it would be very helpful if all of the race baiters and political hacks would STFU and stop trying to paint a false narrative before the process has even begun.
I totally agree, however it's harder to do that when it's on video for the world to see. In this case you can see a guy that appears to be non compliant which I assume because I can't imagine then allowing him to walk to his car for any reason. At the moment he is shot he hadn't done anything to warrant that use of force. Window was up, door was closed, and he hadn't reached for anything.
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Was the window open or not- definitively, not from blurry video. Not saying she is going to get off with an open window and PCP, but it is a better story to tell.
Window is up, you can see its up in the video....can also see blood on it.
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Window is up, you can see its up in the video....can also see blood on it.
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Window up or down, it doesn't matter. Based off of the known circumstances the shoot was not a reasonable use of force per the three prong test provided in the Graham v. Connor case by the U.S. Supreme Court . As I stated earlier she would be well advised to take a plea deal if provided one.
1. Severity of crime ? Misdemeanor at best
2. Was the suspect actively resisting arrest? More like not responding to anything coherently
3. Was the suspect an immediate threat to officers or citizens? Not really.
Window is up, you can see its up in the video....can also see blood on it.
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The video isn't conclusive. In some frames, it looks like blood. In others it's missing and makes it seem the "blood" was the seatbelt now hidden by the B pillar. We need actual photos to verify.
Regardless, it was most likely a bad shoot. All we're arguing now is whether she should go to prison for it. :(
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-13-16, 11:06
Window up or down, it doesn't matter. Based off of the known circumstances the shoot was not a reasonable use of force per the three prong test provided in the Graham v. Connor case by the U.S. Supreme Court . As I stated earlier she would be well advised to take a plea deal if provided one.
1. Severity of crime ? Misdemeanor at best
2. Was the suspect actively resisting arrest? More like not responding to anything coherently
3. Was the suspect an immediate threat to officers or citizens? Not really.
Wouldn't take a very good lawyer to cast reasonable doubt on all three.
According to your interpretation of the standard, on a traffic stop a LEO wouldn't be able to shoot someone until they had presented a gun. The last one is why I think the window is so important. If it is up, he is not an immediate threat- if it is open you have a guy high on PCP, acting in the 99.9999% strange, not following instructions and reaching into a car. So she checked the car already, but you going to risk your life on the certainty that you got everything?
Your car dies in the middle of the street and you go into zombie mode and start reaching into a car. Not saying that is a good shoot, she probably shouldn't be a cop- it's a bad shoot, but is it criminally bad?
She should go to jail because this guy was high on PCP and played stupid games?
Plus, I'd like to see just once someone go to jail for making false statements to the police about how the deceased was pure as the driven snow, when they are closer to the driven on snow.
It does not work that way. If you are going to be the police, be the goddamn police.
I've seen it and maintain it. She is like every other pissant female cop who let alligator mouth overload hummingbird ass.
Her actions were non-methodical and reckless.
Scared? Nobody GAF! You lose your privilege to lose your shit when you take the job. Everybody else had a taser, where was hers?
I see nothing here I could defend in good conscience.
She is not a victim. She could not control her subject, did not wait for back up and turned DUI drugs into a deadly force.
Dopey was just scenery blocking traffic.
Even though she turned put to be right about PCP and IF she is a DRE then she should know that spinning up a duster is a bad play.
These scenarios of non-compliance are taught. Whaddya do when they wont listen but you cant shoot em?
That's when you earn your pay.
Wouldn't take a very good lawyer to cast reasonable doubt on all three.
According to your interpretation of the standard, on a traffic stop a LEO wouldn't be able to shoot someone until they had presented a gun. The last one is why I think the window is so important. If it is up, he is not an immediate threat- if it is open you have a guy high on PCP, acting in the 99.9999% strange, not following instructions and reaching into a car. So she checked the car already, but you going to risk your life on the certainty that you got everything?
Your car dies in the middle of the street and you go into zombie mode and start reaching into a car. Not saying that is a good shoot, she probably shouldn't be a cop- it's a bad shoot, but is it criminally bad?
She should go to jail because this guy was high on PCP and played stupid games?
Plus, I'd like to see just once someone go to jail for making false statements to the police about how the deceased was pure as the driven snow, when they are closer to the driven on snow.
Not saying the guy was a saint. But I am saying it was an unreasonable use of deadly force, with the information known at the time of the incident. It sucks, but sometimes people don't listen and you have to put your big boy pants on and take care of business. Not following commands and being high is not justification for use of deadly force....if it was every dope head would get shot.
It's a shit sandwich for sure, and nobody wins.
Not saying the guy was a saint. But I am saying it was an unreasonable use of deadly force, with the information known at the time of the incident. It sucks, but sometimes people don't listen and you have to put your big boy pants on and take care of business. Not following commands and being high is not justification for use of deadly force....if it was every dope head would get shot.
It's a shit sandwich for sure, and nobody wins.
I wholeheartedly agree. This is not Zootopia. Policing is a contact sport.
They spend a good bit of time teaching how to deal with noncompliant subjects.
Policing is a contact sport.
They spend a good bit of time teaching how to deal with noncompliant subjects.
I wish this was taught to applicants before they even test, a dude in my academy class failed the defensive tactics final and never commissioned. He is a good person but should have never been there. It is a violent, physical, thinking man's contact sport. This was a bad shoot and fails Graham V. Connor easily as outlined above. She panicked but dude was effectively contained with back-up arriving. You don't get to shoot dudes on drugs, even PCP and TCP, for not complying. Sometimes you get to go hands on with the tweakers when they don't want to listen. Sometimes that devolves into a fight, deal with it.
Moose-Knuckle
10-14-16, 04:40
Why do people have to get high on illegal drugs?
Why do people invite the police into their lives?
Why do said people never comply with even the most basic of commands?
.......... Policing is a contact sport.....
Well said. Do you think the advances in control devices, i.e. pepper spray, Tasers, etc., have made some LEO less likely to go hands on? Do you think some are becoming too reliant on the use of control devices instead of their own ability to control an uncooperative subject?
Yes, they have. Have you ever heard the mantra 'ask, tell tase' as a template for force escalation? Taser made a lot of Casper Milquetoast officers badasses. It also emboldened a lot of the thug officers. One agency I know of had over 30 taser deployments one quarter, most of them were by two officers. When asked how many baton strikes they had averaged in corresponding quarters it was almost zero.
Unfortunately, as Steve Ijames says, some officers are simply not cerebral enough to be equipped with tasers, and they are. Taser should be low on the force continuum but, unfortunately many officers rely on it as a crutch that has all but eliminated generating compliance by persuasion.
Several years ago everyone in LE got all butt hurt over the Amnesty International study which essentially said the same thing. Officers didn't listen and now they are learning by unfavorable taser case law.
My experience as an officer and trainer is that with OC a lot of officers avoid it because they don't believe it is effective. I think in many cases because they haven't been trained to deliver an effective initial application.
Tools, such as taser and OC should be the officer's 3rd option. First option used should be the brain, second, in most cases should be the mouth. Unfortunately that is not the way many police officers roll.
titsonritz
05-22-17, 18:50
Mas Ayoob weighs in on the acquittal of Betty Jo Shelby, the Tulsa police officer charged with Manslaughter in the shooting death of Terence Crutcher.
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2017/05/19/the-verdict-in-tulsa/#comments
Averageman
05-23-17, 08:09
Why do people have to get high on illegal drugs?
Why do people invite the police into their lives?
Why do said people never comply with even the most basic of commands?
The guy did all of the above and essentially his family will likely "win" the lottery because of it...
Mas Ayoob weighs in on the acquittal of Betty Jo Shelby, the Tulsa police officer charged with Manslaughter in the shooting death of Terence Crutcher.
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2017/05/19/the-verdict-in-tulsa/#comments
That cleared up a few questions.
http://m.newson6.com/Story.aspx?story=35484604&catId=310876
Officer Shelby returning to work.
Tulsa police officer Betty Shelby is expected to be back at work Monday morning, just a few days after she was acquitted of first-degree manslaughter in the death of Terence Crutcher.
The jury foreman open letter
http://m.newson6.com/Story.aspx?story=35473598&catId=310876
The jury foreman in Officer Betty Shelby's trial is breaking his silence. He wrote an open letter explaining the jury's decision behind the not guilty verdict in the shooting death of Terence Crutcher.
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Averageman
05-23-17, 13:15
http://m.newson6.com/Story.aspx?story=35484604&catId=310876
Officer Shelby returning to work.
Tulsa police officer Betty Shelby is expected to be back at work Monday morning, just a few days after she was acquitted of first-degree manslaughter in the death of Terence Crutcher.
The jury foreman open letter
http://m.newson6.com/Story.aspx?story=35473598&catId=310876
The jury foreman in Officer Betty Shelby's trial is breaking his silence. He wrote an open letter explaining the jury's decision behind the not guilty verdict in the shooting death of Terence Crutcher.
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I would like to see more of these letters written in such cases.
That explained a lot and shows that there was some sincere effort put in to finding justice in this case.
I would like to see more of these letters written in such cases.
That explained a lot and shows that there was some sincere effort put in to finding justice in this case.
I agree.
There was another juror who gave an interview the day after, who said they felt the prosecution could have won the case, had they done a better job. I can't find the link now, but I know it's out there. Said to a man, each juror felt the same, but ultimately couldn't convict. Also, each one stated that they felt she had no business being a patrol officer. Then or now.
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