View Full Version : 5 killed in Washington state Mall
Just alerted to scanner
http://audio5.broadcastify.com/671142648?nocache=848704
I'm hearing 4 KIA, shooter bailed and ran for I-5. Described as a hispanic male, wearing gray or similar colors. Personally, I'm thinking targeted killing right now with a little knowledge of the area. A legit active shooter in a target rich environment would have done a lot more killing.
Whiskey_Bravo
09-23-16, 23:01
http://www.king5.com/news/local/wsp-active-shooter-at-cascade-mall-in-burlington/324940198
Local news. Saying 4 dead, shooter left scene before police arrived.
This just guaranteed the AWB they are pushing here will be passed, whether the sh!tbag used an AR or not.
ETA Update: WSP has released a photo saying he's hispanic. From the photo I'm just not too sure about that. Body count is down to a confirmed 3 KIA following LE securing the mall. All 3 dead were female.
Moose-Knuckle
09-24-16, 03:32
Keep hearing he is "Hispanic", was he speaking Spanish, or with a Spanish accent?
Remember George Zimmerman was "White Hispanic" . . .
I have to wonder if this is the new SOP to describe military aged Middle Eastern male suspects, you know so as not to draw any attention to islamic terrorism.
This just guaranteed the AWB they are pushing here will be passed, whether the sh!tbag used an AR or not.
officials believe he was armed with a rifle
"Officials believe"... GTFO... I haven't been to a mall in a decade that didn't have security cameras all over the place. They know exactly what he was armed with, and the media there would say "rifle" and "assault rifle" every time they can, right up until the moment that it turns out to not be the case.
Enjoy your new gun control laws... The pandemonium of "won't someone please think of the children" reactionary legislation passing is imminent. Just as many fatalities will occur in WA state due to vehicle accidents in the next 24 hours (statistical averages for the state) but not a single new automobile restriction will be rushed to the governor for his signature. Honestly glad I got the heck out of that place, even if I'm not in love with Virginia either.
Death Toll in Seattle-Area Mall Shooting Rises to 5, Gunman at Large
A gunman who was last seen armed with a rifle remained at large Saturday morning after four women and a man were fatally shot Friday night at a shopping mall about 65 miles north of Seattle, Washington State Patrol said.
The victims were shot in the makeup department at Macy's at Cascade Mall in Burlington, Washington, before 7 p.m. local time, police said.
In addition to the four women who died earlier, a male who had sustained life-threatening injuries died at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, several hours after he had been transported there, Sgt. Mark Francis, a public information officer with the Washington State Patrol, announced early Sunday morning.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/report-active-shooter-mall-burlington-washington/story?id=42321253
I'll bet a shiny new dime the mall is a gun free zone.
Keep hearing he is "Hispanic", was he speaking Spanish, or with a Spanish accent?
Remember George Zimmerman was "White Hispanic" . . .
I have to wonder if this is the new SOP to describe military aged Middle Eastern male suspects, you know so as not to draw any attention to islamic terrorism.
If that were the case and the shooter was a ME male, I would have expected a higher body count.
Confirmed gun free zone
Also, the pic shows wooden stocked rifle, no visible mag. I'd guess 10/22 or a bolt action. Did not notice a scope.
Blurry, but does not appear to be an AR, AK, or even a mini
I have to wonder if this is the new SOP to describe military aged Middle Eastern male suspects, you know so as not to draw any attention to islamic terrorism.
From the BOLO pics they are circulating it would be hard to say one or the other. Unless he was heard speaking in Spanish or with an accent.
Don't remember if the pic showed a beard
Outlander Systems
09-24-16, 08:43
Has law enforcement confirmed it was a rifle and not just a large book?
Confirmed gun free zone
Also, the pic shows wooden stocked rifle, no visible mag. I'd guess 10/22 or a bolt action. Did not notice a scope.
Blurry, but does not appear to be an AR, AK, or even a mini
Of course it's a 10/22. No one has been screaming about banning those. Next will be old military bolt actions. Mosins are dirt cheap and everywhere. Gotta cover all the bases you know
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Averageman
09-24-16, 10:18
Confirmed gun free zone
Also, the pic shows wooden stocked rifle, no visible mag. I'd guess 10/22 or a bolt action. Did not notice a scope.
Blurry, but does not appear to be an AR, AK, or even a mini
Shotgun?
My first thought looking at those pictures is certainly not Hispanic
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-24-16, 10:42
CNN says reports of 'Hunting type' rifle. 4 women and 1 man shot at the make up counter. Obviously, to do something like this you are not right in the head, but the victim profiles are a bit strange. Unless those doors open into that area and he just walked in and shot.
Is he in shorts? He looks more ME to me, but from those pics who knows.
TacticalMark
09-24-16, 11:40
From local news photos, he had 10/22 or maybe a Marlin. Looks like he has shorts on and crocs. Looks more ME to me then Hispanic. The area this happened in is more rual and in between the larger cities.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-24-16, 13:15
From local news photos, he had 10/22 or maybe a Marlin. Looks like he has shorts on and crocs. Looks more ME to me then Hispanic. The area this happened in is more rual and in between the larger cities.
Crap, just when I was trying to bring Crocs back.
I still find it hard to believe that this wasn't a targeted attack. Dissed for homecoming or something and kills the girl. What an absolute shame that this jackass ended those lives. What an odd active shooter. A non-white guy that escapes. When was the last non-white active shooter that wasn't trying to kill cops?
This is literally down the street from me. There was a lot of panic from business in the area.
If you have questions...
MountainRaven
09-24-16, 15:08
Rifle appears to be a 10/22 with a Butler Creek translucent 25-round magazine to me. Or it might be a Mini with a flush-fitting magazine. Either way, the front sling attachment point does not conform to any standard sling point I'm familiar with - although if it is a 10/22, it could be that the guy just looped a bit of paracord around the barrel for a forward sling mount with another loop around the wrist of the stock.
Worst case scenario thought - and this is just me spitballing - is that this guy has put a lot of thought and effort into this and has bought a bunch of cheap guns like 10/22s and 870s from private individuals and has a decent idea what police and security response times are. So he walks in, cases the place, walks out, grabs one of his disposable guns, walks back in, shoots a handful of people - maybe just runs the magazine dry, maybe just shoots a few folks - drops the gun and calmly follows the panicking crowd out. Lays low for a little while, then repeats at another location.
Worst-worst case is an entire cell of 3-4 guys who do the same thing.
But it's probably just some dude who's upset that he didn't get to go to prom.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtITT-3VYAAp_nd.jpg:large
Rifle appears to be a 10/22 with a Butler Creek translucent 25-round magazine to me. Or it might be a Mini with a flush-fitting magazine.
Luckily, really don't think it's a mini as the gas block is pretty distinctive, as is the forend shape.
The one blurry closeup is really hard to tell. If there is a clear mag it's empty.
As an update WSP has the shooter in custody.
Arcan Cetin. Turkish Muslim. Must be from Guatemala
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Arcan Cetin. Turkish Muslim. Must be from Guatemala
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****ing A. I saw the pics and thought "hispanic my ass" but they weren't the greatest angle. Now its definitive, another RoPer.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/09/update-cascade-mall-shooter-captured-suspect-turkish-muslim-arcan-cetin/
Cetin’s neighbor who saw him being arrested and took pictures of the arrest, says that Cetin’s ex-girlfriend and her grandmother were among those shot in the Macy’s.
Getting too frequent. Amsrica is not the place for this BS.
Regardless, our rights are non negotiable
Moose-Knuckle
09-25-16, 03:29
Keep hearing he is "Hispanic", was he speaking Spanish, or with a Spanish accent?
Remember George Zimmerman was "White Hispanic" . . .
I have to wonder if this is the new SOP to describe military aged Middle Eastern male suspects, you know so as not to draw any attention to islamic terrorism.
Yeah . . . called it.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8509/29877624706_d0acab655f_b.jpg
Cascade Mall Shooter Captured – Suspect Turkish Muslim Arcan Cetin
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/09/update-cascade-mall-shooter-captured-suspect-turkish-muslim-arcan-cetin/
So in less than two weeks we have had a mass stabbing in a mall by a muslim from Somalia in MN, bombing attacks by a muslim from Afghanistan in NYC/NJ, and now a muslim from Turkey carrying out a mass shooting at a mall in WA. Just imagine how many more Obama will let in before he lives office and then the numbers Hillary will bring in . . .
Averageman
09-25-16, 05:16
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/24/arcan-cetin-burlington-shooter-id-immigrant-turkey/
Police have identified the alleged shooter in the Burlington mall attack as Arcan Cetin, 20, of Oak Harbor, Washington. Multiple reports indicate that Cetin was an immigrant from Turkey — not a citizen, but a legal permanent resident of the United States.
Cetin allegedly killed four women and one man at the Cascade Mall on Friday evening. Local NBC News affiliate KING-5 reports that he used three guns in the attack, all of which had been legally purchased by Cetin’s father, and which he stole.
And why do we allow these people in to our Country again?
How many attacks do we need before common sense tells us to shut the door?
Universal Background checks!!
Oh wait...
I noticed that Arcan stated he was a Hillary Clinton supporter.
He wants open borders so all his jihadi buds can come over, so of course he's for Hillary. :(
I am sure BUT MUH HULY BUUK will get cited at some point.
So yet another muslin crime, nah, we don't have no radical, lawless muslim problem.
A Mexican huh? We need Trump and fast.
titsonritz
09-25-16, 17:45
Yeah . . . called it.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8509/29877624706_d0acab655f_b.jpg
Cascade Mall Shooter Captured – Suspect Turkish Muslim Arcan Cetin
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/09/update-cascade-mall-shooter-captured-suspect-turkish-muslim-arcan-cetin/
So in less than two weeks we have had a mass stabbing in a mall by a muslim from Somalia in MN, bombing attacks by a muslim from Afghanistan in NYC/NJ, and now a muslim from Turkey carrying out a mass shooting at a mall in WA. Just imagine how many more Obama will let in before he lives office and then the numbers Hillary will bring in . . .
Sssshhh...that doesn't fit the agenda stupid, you're Hispanic.
Another Muslim, probably just a coincidence .
Aside from the Religion of Peace thing, has anyone advanced any theory or information regarding why his ex-girlfriend and her grandmother(IIRC) may have been targeted? Some type of Sharia law thing?
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-25-16, 18:59
Five people killed
Not an assault weapon
Not on Blue on black crime
Not a white guy shooter
Not on CNN frontpage anymore....
Do I have it right that he shot five and killed five? Since when have we had no injured? What super killing round did he use? 22lr???? Not saying 22lr won't kill you, but if he went 5 for 5, he had to really want to kill those five people. We still don't know who the victims are, or does 26INF have other information- they are notifying families, but why are they so hard to notify?
sevenhelmet
09-25-16, 19:03
Five people killed
Not an assault weapon
Not on Blue on black crime
Not a white guy shooter
Not on CNN frontpage anymore....
Do I have it right that he shot five and killed five? Since when have we had no injured? What super killing round did he use? 22lr???? Not saying 22lr won't kill you, but if he went 5 for 5, he had to really want to kill those five people. We still don't know who the victims are, or does 26INF have other information- they are notifying families, but why are they so hard to notify?
Remember Sandy Hook? Some of the same questions came up. Was he going for head shots? I dunno...
Pushing UBCs for gun owners = ops normal
Pushing UBCs for immigrants = everybody loses their minds
Oh, and I also read this guy has several domestic violence charges and was told by a judge that he wasn't allowed to have a firearm. So, yeah...
Ridiculous.
Do I have it right that he shot five and killed five? Since when have we had no injured? The wounded man died.
What super killing round did he use? 22lr???? Not saying 22lr won't kill you, but if he went 5 for 5, he had to really want to kill those five people. We still don't know who the victims are, or does 26INF have other information- they are notifying families, but why are they so hard to notify?
I don't have any info - I heard the GF worked there (at Macy's) and also heard a mother and daughter were killed. I was mistaken:
As for the motive, law enforcement sources say Cetin’s ex-girlfriend use to work at the Macy’s where the shooting happened. However, she has not worked there in several months and now lives in Pierce County. But that connection appears to be why Cetin chose that location.
KING 5 has confirmed two of the victims are Belinda Galde and Beatrice Dotson, Galde's mother. Several other Seattle news organizations have reported the three other victims are Sarai Lara, a Mount Vernon High School student, Chuck Eagan, a longtime Boeing employee, and Shayla Martin.
http://www.king5.com/news/local/five-people-dead-in-cascade-mall-shooting-in-burlington/324940198
Heard on news feed on link it was a Ruger .22 Rifle.
sevenhelmet
09-25-16, 19:49
Ban all .22s!
Who else thinks this will result in more .22 hoarding from the neckbeards?
No need to bring any conspiracy stuff into this, the victims were names via multiple news sources.
Local media outlets had identified the victims as of early Sunday. One was 16-year-old Sarai Lara, a cancer survivor and high school sophomore. Her mother, Evangelina, told the Seattle Times that through a translator that she was shopping with Sarai and her younger sister, but they split up.
She said Sarai went to Macy's looking for pants. News of the shooting spread through the mall, and Lara tried to get to her daughter but was unable to do so.
KIRO-TV identified two more victims as Belinda Galde, 64, and her mother, 95-year-old Beatrice Dotson.
The Seattle Times identified the other two victims as Macy's makeup artist Shyla Martin, 52, and Chuck Eagan, a Boeing maintenance worker who was shot while helping his wife flee the store.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/25/mall-shooting-suspect-was-zombie-like-when-arrested-officials-say.html
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-25-16, 21:20
I wasn't trying to imply anything about a conspiracy, the thought hadn't even crossed my mind. In active shooter situations which are inherently outliers, this one just pegs the odd meter. A turkish guy, in rural Washington shoots up a Macy's makeup counter, with a 22lr rifle, with all KIA and no wounded, flees the scene and escapes.
That and when I first saw "Washington Mall Shooter", I thought they were talking about the National Mall in DC.
Ban all .22s!
Who else thinks this will result in more .22 hoarding from the neckbeards?
Typical 22 boarding here is done by Fudds.
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This was only 25 mins from me.
I seen he was from Turkey, but do we have any confirmation that he was Muslim? I haven't seen anything yet.
Also do we have anything official on the weapon? Also some mention a .22 but haven't seen anything official yet.
I believe it was on this board several people said from the picture he was Arab not Hispanic.
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Averageman
09-26-16, 12:46
The guy had like 6 charges on him.
Why didn't we send his butt back to Turkey?
MountainRaven
09-26-16, 12:59
This was only 25 mins from me.
I seen he was from Turkey, but do we have any confirmation that he was Muslim? I haven't seen anything yet.
Also do we have anything official on the weapon? Also some mention a .22 but haven't seen anything official yet.
I believe it was on this board several people said from the picture he was Arab not Hispanic.
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I believe I read somewhere that the perp used three weapons in the shooting, so who knows how many he shot/killed with the 22 (if he had a 22)?
WickedWillis
09-26-16, 14:08
I've got family and friends that were in the area during the shooting. Needless to say, I had a ton of outgoing "Y'all right" calls. Glad to know he got taken in alive.
New twist that hasn't been reported nationally that I've seen.
"Federal sources confirm to KING 5 that Cetin was not a U.S. citizen, meaning legally he cannot vote. However, state records show Cetin registered to vote in 2014 and participated in three election cycles, including the May presidential primary."
http://www.king5.com/news/local/investigators-may-probe-cascade-mall-suspects-citizenship-status-voting-record/327490798
Mr. Goodtimes
09-29-16, 07:55
New twist that hasn't been reported nationally that I've seen.
"Federal sources confirm to KING 5 that Cetin was not a U.S. citizen, meaning legally he cannot vote. However, state records show Cetin registered to vote in 2014 and participated in three election cycles, including the May presidential primary."
http://www.king5.com/news/local/investigators-may-probe-cascade-mall-suspects-citizenship-status-voting-record/327490798
Oh lawdy..... Lawdy..... Lawdy.......
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Averageman
09-29-16, 08:08
New twist that hasn't been reported nationally that I've seen.
"Federal sources confirm to KING 5 that Cetin was not a U.S. citizen, meaning legally he cannot vote. However, state records show Cetin registered to vote in 2014 and participated in three election cycles, including the May presidential primary."
http://www.king5.com/news/local/investigators-may-probe-cascade-mall-suspects-citizenship-status-voting-record/327490798
Two things;
"We don’t have a provision in state law that allows us either county elections officials or the Secretary of State's office to verify someone’s citizenship," explained Secretary of State Kim Wyman.
WTF? Gee Kim, you really might want to look in to that being Secretary of State and everything.
The Last thing.
With like six charges on his rap sheet, to include a felony or two, WHY in the name of all that is good and right, wasn't this guy sling shotted back to Turkey on the first thing smoking?
Two things;
"We don’t have a provision in state law that allows us either county elections officials or the Secretary of State's office to verify someone’s citizenship," explained Secretary of State Kim Wyman.
WTF? Gee Kim, you really might want to look in to that being Secretary of State and everything.
The Last thing.
With like six charges on his rap sheet, to include a felony or two, WHY in the name of all that is good and right, wasn't this guy sling shotted back to Turkey on the first thing smoking?
The same reason we weren't able to slingshot this turd back to Uganda in FOURTEEN YEARS? :(
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/2016/09/apnewsbreak_us_tried_to_deport_slain_refugee_twice
EL CAJON, Calif. — U.S. authorities tried twice to deport the unarmed black man fatally shot by police in a San Diego suburb, but his native Uganda refused to take him, resulting in his release.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement said Alfred Olango stopped reporting to officers in February 2015. Spokeswoman Virginia Kice did not know if officers tried to find him after that.
Olango arrived as a refugee in 1991 and was ordered deported in 2002 after being convicted on drug charges. He was released under a U.S. Supreme Court ruling barring detention of foreign nationals after six months if deportation is unlikely.
Immigration authorities took Olango into custody in 2009 after a firearms conviction in Colorado but were again unable to obtain travel documents.
John Sandweg, a former ICE director, said Olango could not be held for more than six months for failing to report to immigration authorities last year because it is not a crime....
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-29-16, 17:33
You stop accepting people, stop banking, and refuse visa's from countries that don't take people we are trying to deport..
Was his sentence less than six months in both cases???
Moose-Knuckle
09-30-16, 04:06
Couldn't help but notice the media blackout on all of this.
The silence is deafening . . .
Reminds me of the muslim who shot up the Orlando gay club, his father was at a Hillary rally. No doubt the mass influx of muslim fugees will turnout to help the likes of her.
Too many inconvenient truths
You stop accepting people, stop banking, and refuse visa's from countries that don't take people we are trying to deport..
Was his sentence less than six months in both cases???
There is a provision of U.S. Immigration law which states Immigration officials can ask the US State Department to stop issuing / renewing all visas for nationals of countries which refuse to accept their citizens.
It has only been used once, during the last Bush administration. The US DOS stopped issuing visas to Guyana under this provision and they started taking their people back within 3 weeks. Shortly thereafter, the DOS threatened Jamaica with the same sanction and they immediately started taking back all their citizens.
It has not been used since. In fairness, there are some stateless persons who countries don't exist anymore and some you will never be able to prove nationality so you won't get rid of everyone but this provision of law is WAY under utilized.
Two things;
"We don’t have a provision in state law that allows us either county elections officials or the Secretary of State's office to verify someone’s citizenship," explained Secretary of State Kim Wyman.
WTF? Gee Kim, you really might want to look in to that being Secretary of State and everything.
The Last thing.
With like six charges on his rap sheet, to include a felony or two, WHY in the name of all that is good and right, wasn't this guy sling shotted back to Turkey on the first thing smoking?
They are now reporting Cetin is a U.S. Citizen. It is possible DHS immigration records still show him as a legal resident/green card holder but he derived citizenship via his mother or step father.
Cetin came to the US as a legal immigrant (a legal permanent resident) as a child with his mother, pursuant to her marriage to a U.S. Citizen.
Under the Child Citizen Act of 2000, if Cetin's mother naturalized as a U.S. Citizen before his 18th birthday, he would derive citizenship from her by operation of law, even if he never applied for naturalization.
If I recall correctly, he also could have derived US citizenship via his step father, if the step father legally adopted him prior to his 18th birthday.
There is a provision of U.S. Immigration law which states Immigration officials can ask the US State Department to stop issuing / renewing all visas for nationals of countries which refuse to accept their citizens.
It has only been used once, during the last Bush administration. The US DOS stopped issuing visas to Guyana under this provision and they started taking their people back within 3 weeks. Shortly thereafter, the DOS threatened Jamaica with the same sanction and they immediately started taking back all their citizens.
It has not been used since. In fairness, there are some stateless persons who countries don't exist anymore and some you will never be able to prove nationality so you won't get rid of everyone but this provision of law is WAY under utilized.
Re the 6 months:
The article does not explain this well. It is not a sentence. The legal purpose of immigration detention after and alien has been ordered deported is to effect the alien's deportation. There is a U.S. Supreme Court case Zadvydas v. Davis (533 U.S. 678 (2001) which prohibits indefinite detention of such aliens and implicitly limits an alien's detention to a period reasonably necessary to bring about that alien's removal from the United States. Long story short, per this case law, 6 months is generally considered a reasonable period, barring specific circumstances justifying further detention.
If DHS has to release and alien because there is no reasonable likelihood of deporting them, they are placed on supervised release similar to probation / parole. Under Title 8, U.S. Code section 1253(b), it is a misdemeanor criminal offense, punishable by up to 6 months imprisonment, for an alien on supervision to violate the terms of their release. However, not many U.S. Attorney's offices want to prosecute misdemeanors and 1253(b) prosecutions are extremely rare.
titsonritz
12-21-16, 12:07
Self-Defense Lessons from a Mass Murder (http://weaponsman.com/?p=37692)
An analysis of Run, Hide, Fight.
Warning: Graphic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb9x47qrMw
Self-Defense Lessons from a Mass Murder (http://weaponsman.com/?p=37692)
An analysis of Run, Hide, Fight.
Warning: Graphic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb9x47qrMw
Fight, fight, fight. I like to be an objective, less emotionally driven person but the fact this took place a couple miles down the road at a place I frequent makes the whole scenario more surreal, infuriating, and disgusting.
Had I been there, I think I could have lost it and unloaded into the guy, far into corpse-shooting territory, and gone to jail happy.
Self-Defense Lessons from a Mass Murder (http://weaponsman.com/?p=37692)
An analysis of Run, Hide, Fight.
Warning: Graphic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb9x47qrMw
Holy **** that was infuriating to watch.
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RetroRevolver77
12-21-16, 14:02
Obama imported tens of thousands more of these Muslims- all by design to create more attacks in order to usher in more gun control and surveillance legislation.
Same thing they are doing in Europe.
I am in my 50s when I was a teen the mall was a fun place
these days I just see it full of people and crowds of cell phone texting idiots that I dont ever want to be around !!!
avoiding those kinda places as much as I can but we know this stuff can happen anywhere but odds are much more
things I need to make my kids watch and learn what to do etc.. which is tough for them to see but I feel needs to anymore
titsonritz
12-21-16, 14:32
I am in my 50s when I was a teen the mall was a fun place
these days I just see it full of people and crowds of cell phone texting idiots that I dont ever want to be around !!!
avoiding those kinda places as much as I can but we know this stuff can happen anywhere but odds are much more
things I need to make my kids watch and learn what to do etc.. which is tough for them to see but I feel needs to anymore
We're about the same age, I've always said "I'll protect my children with the truth, not from it."
good way of saying it :)
We're about the same age, I've always said "I'll protect my children with the truth, not from it."
Self-Defense Lessons from a Mass Murder (http://weaponsman.com/?p=37692)
An analysis of Run, Hide, Fight.
Warning: Graphic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb9x47qrMw
Good video, thanks.
Wish there was a way for all the right people to see that.
Very good video. I admit, I do like a lot of what John puts out. That is a great training video for Run, Hide, Fight for non-shooter types and he is dead on at the end about the fight. If it comes to that you have to go after the guy with teeth and claws out. I agree with fight, fight, fight but that mentality isn't in all people. Most will follow the flight instinct to GTFO. I don't personally know a prosecutor who will go after a person who stopped an active killer.
I'm still pissed the Island County Sheriff, not a deputy but the elected Sheriff, was there and did nothing. Yes, he was unarmed but he could have found a weapon or at the very least provided a distraction to possibly save lives. I hope his actions that day resurface when he is up for re-election.
Very good video. I admit, I do like a lot of what John puts out. That is a great training video for Run, Hide, Fight for non-shooter types and he is dead on at the end about the fight. If it comes to that you have to go after the guy with teeth and claws out. I agree with fight, fight, fight but that mentality isn't in all people. Most will follow the flight instinct to GTFO. I don't personally know a prosecutor who will go after a person who stopped an active killer.
I'm still pissed the Island County Sheriff, not a deputy but the elected Sheriff, was there and did nothing. Yes, he was unarmed but he could have found a weapon or at the very least provided a distraction to possibly save lives. I hope his actions that day resurface when he is up for re-election.
That's key. The two girls who did the "duck and boogie" are alive. Not sure there would be a better outcome if they attacked the guy with shirt racks.
If it was me 20 years ago with two of my buddies I regularly shoot with, we'd have all tried to box his ass in without even talking about it first. Today? Well the plan is probably more like "I'm leaving and anyone else who wants to leave should probably come with me."
Then again, it probably depends what day it is, how much John Wayne I'm feeling that day and if I'm angry more than concerned. But if I'm boxed in, it's going to be a 100% "F that guy" day.
The video is hard to watch but should be diseminated publicly. These types people are not going away.
It just shows that 'Gun Free' zones do not work and law abiding people should be provided the most effective legal option of self-defense.Which as we all know is some type of firearm.
I just heard discussion of this concept of "Run, Hide, and Fight" with both media (radio and tv) reports discussing the fight part with no mention of allowing the option of bringing a firearm into the equation.
It's not surprising, that I am hearing more frequently of regular people starting to arm themselves, concealed weapon permit or not, in preparing for this possible type of scenario.
While in school, I worked in a large shopping mall, and though there was a Police Officer assigned to the location. The large security presence was unarmed. There is absolutely no softer target than a shopping mall. I believe that we're fortunate this has not happened more frequently.
Lastly, let's hope President Trump follows through in sending these refugees back to their Homeland.
Good video to show the dynamics of such an attack. In Israel we have many such videos and a different mind set. In Israel when we have a terror attack you will always find people running to the sound of the gun fire to stop the threat. Stopping the threat in Israeli speak means kill the terrorist including when he is down putting a couple in his head to make sure he is dead.
But in Israel unlike the USA, for ending a terrorist life, you will not get sued by the dead terrorist family.
Due to possible civil actions after the attack I would be less inclined to get involved, E&E.
WickedWillis
12-22-16, 11:26
Self-Defense Lessons from a Mass Murder (http://weaponsman.com/?p=37692)
An analysis of Run, Hide, Fight.
Warning: Graphic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb9x47qrMw
Damn. Over Thanksgiving, I found out my Stepmother lost a close friend in this incident. I was worried initially about my Brother that lives in the area, and a friend that was close. So this hits a tad closer to home now. Good learning experience though.
RetroRevolver77
12-22-16, 12:56
I carry everywhere for this reason.
I carry everywhere for this reason.
This. Don't be easy. Die hard. Make them bastards earn it. One or two CCW holders would have changed that outcome. He would have ran like a little bitch if he had incoming fire.
Over all though, people just don't have the the will to live when faced with danger. Much less the will to fight back. Such is too bad. That POS needed to catch lead by his teeth.
Over all though, people just don't have the the will to live when faced with danger. Much less the will to fight back.
BCM's American Gunfighter Episode 7 with Northern Red closed with an epic line about this.
titsonritz
12-22-16, 17:04
BCM's American Gunfighter Episode 7 with Northern Red closed with an epic line about this.
Is there a link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThMktulB9ME&list=FLXDY_hF_u_ZRvfeJE_dj-Bg&index=1
But in Israel unlike the USA, for ending a terrorist life, you will not get sued by the dead terrorist family.
Due to possible civil actions after the attack I would be less inclined to get involved, E&E.I think the greater danger is charges from the local prosecutor. I have seen many people in the news in many states. Often not convicted but dragged through the mud.
titsonritz
12-22-16, 18:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThMktulB9ME&list=FLXDY_hF_u_ZRvfeJE_dj-Bg&index=1
Thanks
I carry everywhere for this reason.
Exactly this.. Everywhere
BCM's American Gunfighter Episode 7 with Northern Red closed with an epic line about this.
Thanks for the heads up. I haven't watched the last few bcm episodes.
I always carry. Even so if you were the first victim I don't see a way to about that. Those odds are very low. Fight back!
Good video to show the dynamics of such an attack. In Israel we have many such videos and a different mind set. In Israel when we have a terror attack you will always find people running to the sound of the gun fire to stop the threat. Stopping the threat in Israeli speak means kill the terrorist including when he is down putting a couple in his head to make sure he is dead.
But in Israel unlike the USA, for ending a terrorist life, you will not get sued by the dead terrorist family.
Due to possible civil actions after the attack I would be less inclined to get involved, E&E.
In CONUS you have to satisfy JOA and the rules and regulations pertaining to deadly force. If, I should say when, the U.S. experiences the frequency of attacks they do in Israel, I would like to see Federal legislation enacted that protects the protector in a verifiable terrorist attack.
I always carry. Even so if you were the first victim I don't see a way to about that. Those odds are very low. Fight back!
And that's why I'm not a fan of deep concealment like tucked holsters. Sometimes the game starts without you even knowing you are in it.
In that video, the first encounter had a slim chance at best since they were at least face to face. If you are comparing prices on the shelf and the shooter is behind you, you get nothing.
And as if that wasn't grim enough, most people think being armed makes it 50/50. Actually your odds of survival start around 33%. Discounting all other factors, three outcomes are possible. You will kill your attacker, your attacker will kill you or you both will die.
Given this dismal starting point, you must cheat every advantage you can get in your favor. Decent defensive ammo, magazine capacity, immediate access, training and practice, a general "what if" plan for everyplace you go but most of all acceptance of the fact that it really can happen and if it looks like it is X, it probably is X and you don't have time to second guess it.
If you get stuck at "I can't believe this is happening", you probably cut that 33% in half.
Won't always get this lucky, but if something "feels wrong" or you are fortunate enough to actually see something that "doesn't look right" as it's developing, that is a serious heads up that most people would kill for - pay attention.
Couple things I've been lucky enough to learn without injury over the years.
Never assume it's just about you.
Never assume there is only one threat.
Never assume somebody is a good guy without a valid reason.
Never single focus on somebody you perceive to be a potential bad guy.
Sometimes the "potential problem" is nothing more than a deliberate distraction from the true threat that is now behind your focus of attention.
Your plan will need an adjustment with every new piece of information, being able to reassess on the fly is more important than the brand of tactical pants you are wearing.
When really bad things happen you don't "rise to your game" so much as you "revert to your minimum skill level." Things that are simple as pie at the range become complicated when people shoot at you.
IMO the most valuable thing you can do is "scenario training" because it gets you out of the expectation that you will know what a problem looks like when it develops. Scenario training where you have no idea what the stage you are going to shoot even looks like is even better.
Cool little mental trick I learned from somebody with more "shooting people" time than I have, no matter where you are mentally stage a gun fight. At the mall, in restaurants, in the office but most of all in parking lots pick a person at random and imagine they suddenly become a shooter. Where do you retreat or fight to? Where is cover, where do you stage if there is no cover? What is the best approach to attack the shooter if that becomes the best option? If you are with family, friends or co workers how does that change your options?
Doing this three or four times a day for a few minutes is a bit overwhelming at first. The gravity of how much "this would really suck if it happened right now" is a little disheartening. But when you get past that after a few weeks it's almost like a "chess break" in your day that only takes a few minutes. Instead of walking from your car to the office, you are in your mind having a "real time" gunfight.
Stuck in traffic? Might as well Walter Mitty a realistic "road rage" incident where somebody you never even looked at gets out of their car and starts coming to yours with a gun drawn. Stay in the car and shoot through the windshield? Bail out and cover behind your car? Flank around the big ass pickup truck next to you? Keep in mind that many people are going to perceive YOU as the first shooter, the problem and a threat and may react accordingly.
It's pretty humbling, but if you find yourself in a shitty situation at least you are mentally prepared to accept it and to try and win. It's a good feeling when you think "oh crap this might actually be something" and you've already moved to the best location with a plan of action before you are able to conclude it was actually nothing.
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