Purpose of skeletonized hammer on Beretta 92FS/M9

[davidjinks]

Specifically related to upgrading the gun(s).

When researching upgrades, the D spring and skeletonized hammer are always mentioned together. What purpose does changing the hammers fulfill?

I would assume it would aid in unlocking but I'm not entirely sure. If that is the correct reasoning, how does it aid in that action?

[BBossman]

in theory the lighter weight of the skeletonized hammer should provide faster lock time, whether you'd notice it is debatable. Most guys change the hammer because it looks "cool".

[Ron3]

I wasn't impressed with the "D" hammer spring (18lb?) in the 92 Compact L I had. Perhaps because it was the compact model. But if not I'd go for a 16 lb hammer spring and test thoroughly for light hits.

Don't get me wrong the D spring was a big help but it still made for a heavy DA trigger. Felt like it dropped from 12 lbs to 10 lbs and even with the Wilson Combat short reach steel trigger it was still a long pull.

Don't know anything about the hammers.

[davidjinks]

Did you mean unlock time?

If the gun is DA/SA wouldn't lock time be all about RSA?

I'm genuinely asking and not trying to be a smartass.


in theory the lighter weight of the skeletonized hammer should provide faster lock time, whether you'd notice it is debatable. Most guys change the hammer because it looks "cool".

[davidjinks]

Well now that's interesting.

From what I've researched I was seeing lower numbers than that. Maybe that was based off a MK1 MOD0 finger...

Are there any other companies out there who make a short reach trigger? I'm planning on going with Wolff springs for my spring needs.


I wasn't impressed with the "D" hammer spring (18lb?) in the 92 Compact L I had. Perhaps because it was the compact model. But if not I'd go for a 16 lb hammer spring and test thoroughly for light hits.

Don't get me wrong the D spring was a big help but it still made for a heavy DA trigger. Felt like it dropped from 12 lbs to 10 lbs and even with the Wilson Combat short reach steel trigger it was still a long pull.

Don't know anything about the hammers.

[Nightstalker865]

D spring is 16lbs. Generally brings the guns from a 12lb DA pull down into the 8-9lb range. Fantastic upgrade for the 92 series. A hammer spring swap doesn't change length of pull, only weight.

I've tried the WC short reach trigger in my 92G-SD and hated it. Made the break feel even further back than the standard trigger. I installed a standard steel trigger in the gun and I'm using the Wilson CS 14lb hammer spring with the Elite II hammer. This combination brings the DA pull down to right at 8lbs and is incredibly smooth. Since the change I've got roughly 1500rds through the gun with perfect reliability.



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[BBossman]

Did you mean unlock time?

If the gun is DA/SA wouldn't lock time be all about RSA?

I'm genuinely asking and not trying to be a smartass.

Many "terms" get bandied about, but "lock time" generally refers to the time from trigger break to cartridge ignition.

You asked specifically about the purpose of the hammer. If you want to get into the esoterica of the effects of hammer spring weights and their influence over barrel unlocking times, I suggest you head over to a 1911 specific forum and do some reading on the subject from some pretty knowledgeable 1911 smiths. They delve into the minutia of recoils springs, hammer springs, firing pin stop shapes and even the shape, finish and angle of hammer cocking faces and their effects on unlocking.

As far as the Beretta 92 'D" spring, it is an improvement over the standard weight spring as far as trigger feel, but unless you are feeding your pistol a diet of 124gr +p ammo, I doubt you're really going to be able to measure the effects of it on barrel unlocking.

Understand that the "D" spring was originally only installed in the DAO Beretta 92's, and then in the various "Elite" models with the skelotonized hammer. Some folks used to warn of using the combination in duty, or defensive pistols due to the possibility of light primer strikes, but my Elite II has never failed to touch off anything I've put through it. I also have the "D" spring installed in my other 92's with the standard hammer and have never experienced a misfire.

[davidjinks]

Thank you for your response.


Many "terms" get bandied about, but "lock time" generally refers to the time from trigger break to cartridge ignition.

You asked specifically about the purpose of the hammer. If you want to get into the esoterica of the effects of hammer spring weights and their influence over barrel unlocking times, I suggest you head over to a 1911 specific forum and do some reading on the subject from some pretty knowledgeable 1911 smiths. They delve into the minutia of recoils springs, hammer springs, firing pin stop shapes and even the shape, finish and angle of hammer cocking faces and their effects on unlocking.

As far as the Beretta 92 'D" spring, it is an improvement over the standard weight spring as far as trigger feel, but unless you are feeding your pistol a diet of 124gr +p ammo, I doubt you're really going to be able to measure the effects of it on barrel unlocking.

Understand that the "D" spring was originally only installed in the DAO Beretta 92's, and then in the various "Elite" models with the skelotonized hammer. Some folks used to warn of using the combination in duty, or defensive pistols due to the possibility of light primer strikes, but my Elite II has never failed to touch off anything I've put through it. I also have the "D" spring installed in my other 92's with the standard hammer and have never experienced a misfire.

[Magsz]

Bill Wilson generally believes that the mass of the standard 92 hammer makes it more reliable. Especially when coupled with his trigger bar that increases the hammer arc in Double Action.

The EII hammer's are generally mentioned with the lighter weight D springs because they have a greater hammer arc than the standard hammer. The further you bring back the hammer the more reliable it will be when it strikes the primer. That's about as well as I can sum it up in laymans terms.

[Ron3]

D spring is 16lbs. Generally brings the guns from a 12lb DA pull down into the 8-9lb range. Fantastic upgrade for the 92 series. A hammer spring swap doesn't change length of pull, only weight.

I've tried the WC short reach trigger in my 92G-SD and hated it. Made the break feel even further back than the standard trigger. I installed a standard steel trigger in the gun and I'm using the Wilson CS 14lb hammer spring with the Elite II hammer. This combination brings the DA pull down to right at 8lbs and is incredibly smooth. Since the change I've got roughly 1500rds through the gun with perfect reliability.



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My mistake. You are right about the WC trigger. I liked that it was steel but it did break further back than I liked. But I did like the slight improvement on moving the forward position back. I guess I should have tried lighter springs. Don't have the pistol anymore though. The Cheetah line is more my size. (For carry)

[ColtSeavers]

The original elite hammer combined with a lighter hammer spring like the D spring would cause light strikes/failure to fires.

The Elite II skeletonized hammer was beefed up and solved the ignition reliability problems, even when used with a light hammer spring like the D spring.

I personally went with a nickel plated/inox Elite II skeletonized hammer for aesthetics.

The D spring is a fantastic upgrade as it greatly alleviates the seemingly endlessly long DA trigger pull by letting you pull through it that much more quickly. I was a skeptic, especially as a revolver shooter, until I got one on a whim.

[Magsz]

Try some of the lighter weight wilson springs and you will be even more surprised.

The Beretta has a buttery smooth DA pull with these suckers installed. Im running a 12lb in my vertec with the factory hammer and wilson combat trigger bar with zero issues in 200 rounds of domestic produced ammunition. I wouldnt recommend it for serious use but for fun, man this 12 lb spring is kicking butt. Lets see if the reliability will last as the round count increases.

[Straight Shooter]

I ran the Elite II & D spring with my M9 for years- 100% reliable. I like the ergonomics & look of that hammer.

[1_click_off]

Just thinking outload, but if a lighter spring is used the original hammer would move slower and hit with less force.

Skeletonize the hammer and the speed increases and the hammer would then strike with the same force as the factory setup.

Other influences created could be the shorter lock time due to the hammer falling faster and then possible sooner unlocking of the barrel with the lighter spring.