View Full Version : Snowden NO SPOILER! (Movie Comments)
I saw it tonight. It is an Oliver Stone film so obviously, its leans to the left and paints Ed Snowden as somewhat as a "hero" for Americans. I am agnostic on Snowden being a whistle blower, I never took one side or the other. The movie actually paints a pretty clear picture of who and what he did for the CIA and NSA, in fact, the real Edward Snowden actually appears in this movie in the end and has a closing statement. The movie has a lot of negative views towards the Obama administration as well as Obamas views on America in general. In my opinion, its a good movie. Its a "dramatic-reenactment" of actual events so I couldn't tell you how accurate this movie is or how truthful the story is. If this movie was an 100% truthful movie, then Top Gun was a documentary. All in all, I would recommend it.
Digital_Damage
09-26-16, 06:58
Not allowed to watch it, would not watch it if I could.
Dude needs to be gargling Chelsea Manning love in a deep dark hole.
Straight Shooter
09-26-16, 07:19
As one who absolutely knows our government is one of & maybe THE most corrupt, inefficient, bloated, spoiled, rotten, lowdown, good for nothing bodies on the planet- I too just cannot decide if dude is hero or traitor.
Could some of you anti-Snowden folks tell me specifically & factually what he did wrong..NOT illegal. Im at the point now I give a shit about "legal"...only right & wrong. Has he caused death like Hillary?
Would really like to learn pro & con of the man.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-26-16, 08:00
The line I draw between Snowden and Manning is that Manning just blurted stuff out, I though in a "America is bad and there shouldn't be secrets" versus Snowden's "This is illegal and no one is doing anything about it." I just saw the previews, but Snowden gets into the military into selection for Rangers(?) and after he trashes his legs and tries out for the CIA, then they figure out he is some genius? I'll probably watch it sometime but I'd like a read a counterpoint to the movie before I watch it just so that I know the points of contention. He's somewhere between Benedict Arnold and Rommel- I just have no idea where.
What he did wrong: He chose himself over everyone else. He reeks of this smarmy, hacker elitest "I am smarter than everyone, therefore deserve no punishment" mentality.
A real man would've gladly been a martyr. Once it was all out in the open, EVERYTHING, where no one country had a monopoly on it. I would go right to the US embassy and own it all. I would go into hock getting lawyers to keep it so public that they would have to give me a very public and very open trial. I would end up in some federal prison but it would all be out there It would stay in the public eye a lot longer than they would like
Nope. Runs off to Russia, sells out to Putin, and it goes nowhere.
One way or another he will die there. Especially once he is no longer egg on American face. He has pissed away any chance for a meaningful trial and made it more about Snowden: Secret Agent Man than NSA keeps tabs on America more than they do the terrorists.
He is no hero, antihero, nor any of that.
He thought he could be big shit and now will die in Russia. I dont care how "modern" they get. He's an outsider, they have a history of corruption, and in 10 more years I will be shocked if he is still alive.
The line I draw between Snowden and Manning is that Manning just blurted stuff out, I though in a "America is bad and there shouldn't be secrets" versus Snowden's "This is illegal and no one is doing anything about it." I just saw the previews, but Snowden gets into the military into selection for Rangers(?) and after he trashes his legs and tries out for the CIA, then they figure out he is some genius? I'll probably watch it sometime but I'd like a read a counterpoint to the movie before I watch it just so that I know the points of contention. He's somewhere between Benedict Arnold and Rommel- I just have no idea where.
He was an 18X who got medical dropped in like basic. Not even jump school IIRC, he had a community college degree and went on USAjobs like everybody else. His "spy training" was what they would give anybody going overseas.
He was a dumbass young adult who wanted to "make history" and got Uncle Sam's computer password. He's not Mr. Robot.
He was fantasy land like Bowe Bergdahl. He could've had a MORE positive impact in a million different ways but was looking for a payday. Russia and China don't put people up because they are humanitarians.
At least Mitnick owned his stuff.
But Snowden helping anyone else was purely incidental
Digital_Damage
09-26-16, 08:34
As one who absolutely knows our government is one of & maybe THE most corrupt, inefficient, bloated, spoiled, rotten, lowdown, good for nothing bodies on the planet- I too just cannot decide if dude is hero or traitor.
Could some of you anti-Snowden folks tell me specifically & factually what he did wrong..NOT illegal. Im at the point now I give a shit about "legal"...only right & wrong. Has he caused death like Hillary?
Would really like to learn pro & con of the man.
He took an oath and signed a contract. He is a POS lowlife that just happen to get the keys to stuff he should never have gotten access to, he was not a part of the system... His employer was at fault as much as him. He wanted fame, that is it.
Now he tours around conning everyone into believing he is some kind of blackhat genius. The guy is a fraud.
Outlander Systems
09-26-16, 08:43
The "Revelations" were only "Revelations" if you had your head up your fourth point of contact.
Given the fact that no one has been arrested, no policy changes have been implemented, no programs have been terminated, no mass-revolt/protest occurred, and everything's just business-as-usual, the reality of it all should be pretty evident.
Digital_Damage
09-26-16, 09:14
The "Revelations" were only "Revelations" if you had your head up your fourth point of contact.
Given the fact that no one has been arrested, no policy changes have been implemented, no programs have been terminated, no mass-revolt/protest occurred, and everything's just business-as-usual, the reality of it all should be pretty evident.
Ya... nothing was illegal as far as the program. He did not reveal a wrong, what he did was the wrong.
The only change is this forced the data to be searched in less secure Consumer datacenters than the NSA's...
The data was and always has been collected by the tel co, all the .gov was doing is reading it. Legally
I'm going to stop at that, I really should not even be in this thread...
As Oliver Stone is the Michael Moore of movie directors, no plans to see it. It's pure fiction and conjecture and personal bias of the director, so not interested. Can get far more accurate facts from simply reading articles and such on the net. If a serious attempt by a quality movie maker was made to cover the story was done, I'd probably check it out.
RetroRevolver77
09-26-16, 10:53
The traitor isn't Snowden. The traitors are the government employees who are spying on our citizens.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
I'm damn sure the founding father's wouldn't agree that the government could copy, store, and read private mail between citizens or record their conversations unless those citizens were being actively investigated for criminal activity and only after a ****ing warrant was issued. Just as the 1st Amendment applies to our freedom of speech electronically, the 4th applies to our freedom from unwarranted searches electronically. The 4th Amendment is the cornerstone of the Constitution that was supposed to restrain the government from becoming tyrannical monster it has become now. I don't care if they spy on foreign governments or foreign people on our lands but not our people, not our citizens not every damn communication, e-mail or phone call that is beyond treason.
The traitor isn't Snowden, it's the government employees who are spying on our citizens- those are the real traitors.
Yeah, but what did Snowden really accomplish?
I agree. Snowflakes ass is in Russia and the guys he was working for still have a job and are still very much privy to the terabytes of hentai you and I view in a week. While NOT intercepting terrorism.
So ultimately nothing was accomplished
Outlander Systems
09-26-16, 11:27
You gotta laugh at the best bureaucratic incompetence money can buy...
If we are to believe the official narrative regarding "Operation Rogue Dissident Snowden", the jackoffs:
1) Can't prevent a single dude from siphoning off data
2) Spend billions-upon-billions erecting what is, essentially, a mousetrap the size of the moon to catch...a mouse.
3) Use intelligence resources to spy on their girlfriends.
4) Can't even stop a guy from shooting up a gay nightclub.
5) Set up elaborate cut-outs like Facebook.
6) Can't even stop a guy from setting off IEDs in the biggest city in the country.
But, hey, they know I jerk-down to brunette PAWGs like Christy Mack and Charlie Sweets, listen to New-Retro Wave in secret, ride to and from work, call my mom nightly, and text my kid to let me in when I lock myself out of the house and desperately need to snap a deuce.
Way to go, guys!
:rolleyes:
Laugh at it, bro. The totality of the Stasi-like so-called, "Security State" is ****ing joke-status.
The traitor isn't Snowden, it's the government employees who are spying on our citizens- those are the real traitors.
RetroRevolver77
09-26-16, 11:28
Yeah, but what did Snowden really accomplish?
I agree. Snowflakes ass is in Russia and the guys he was working for still have a job and are still very much privy to the terabytes of hentai you and I view in a week. While NOT intercepting terrorism.
So ultimately nothing was accomplished
The NSA was never about stopping terrorists- the NSA is about collecting data on American citizens to be used by the Socialists once they take over the government entirely. Snowden showed the treason and corruption that our government has far exceeded the Communists, the Stasi, as far as monitoring citizens. That was exactly the reason the 4th Amendment was written to keep our country from becoming a totalitarian regime. Right now they just collect data, compile data, build lists so when the Socialists do finally take over which the government is a party to- what do you think they'll do with that data? They can't turn this country Socialist fast enough, they have been flooding our borders, taking over every level of government for the past half century and they are accelerating this to finally hold a super majority. The people who built this nation, the people who believe in the Constitution, the Conservatives are the enemy of Socialists, that is why they collect the data, that is why they want to know who you are.
Actually....no. Everybody with a brain was saying that the Pariot Act was KGB Stasi unneeded bullshit back when it was announced. Same with declaring tax agentes and revenuers to be cops by putting a lot of agencies under the unnecessary "homeland security". That was stupid. None of it was about Haji stopping. Just messing with Americans.
MountainRaven
09-26-16, 12:03
Ya... nothing was illegal as far as the program. He did not reveal a wrong, what he did was the wrong.
The only change is this forced the data to be searched in less secure Consumer datacenters than the NSA's...
The data was and always has been collected by the tel co, all the .gov was doing is reading it. Legally
I'm going to stop at that, I really should not even be in this thread...
Sieg heil!
Yeah, but what did Snowden really accomplish?
I agree. Snowflakes ass is in Russia and the guys he was working for still have a job and are still very much privy to the terabytes of hentai you and I view in a week. While NOT intercepting terrorism.
So ultimately nothing was accomplished
What has any whistleblower accomplished?
Why does anyone think the government stopped illegally spying on Americans just because J. Edgar Hoover is dead?
The hippies who protested the military-congressional-industrial complex and the war in Vietnam are now hanging out in DC, fastidiously spending your tax dollars to support the military congressional-industrial complex while fighting half a dozen Vietnams all over the globe.
And nobody cares.
Hell, you can't even criticize the US military these days without some mouth breather high school dropout or liberal hipster douche - neither of whom ever spent more than an hour in a recruiter's office - shifting the conversation to how you don't support the troops.
And nobody cares.
At least by hiding in Russia, the issue can't entirely go away, because Snowden can't entirely go away. It would be much easier for Congress to ignore Snowden if he's rotting in a federal pen, because then the government gets to control who visits him and who doesn't. And there's probably someone in there for life who can be convinced to silence a traitor forever.
Why does anyone care whatsoever about Snowden himself? Why should it anger you that he isn't in Florence Supermax, OR that he can never come back? The information is the only important part of the story. We all knew what they were doing, but without the exposure of the facts we were just tinfoil nutters. Now we're right and there's no denying it.
I struggled for a long time on whether Snowden was a traitor or a hero, sometimes conceding he was both. Now? I just don't care about him at all. He's neither. He's just not all that important to the story. Only the information is important and we should stop focusing on Snowden entirely. All it does is detract from the information. :(
Outlander Systems
09-26-16, 12:18
Ultimately, Snowden is irrelevant.
According to the USG, so are the 4th and 5th Amendments. :p
Thanks, ladies and gentlemen; please, tip your waitress and try the veal.
Why does anyone care whatsoever about Snowden himself?
We are conscripts to the agenda. In the burrows of doom.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-26-16, 13:27
Now he tours around conning everyone into believing he is some kind of blackhat genius. The guy is a fraud.
"tours' is a pretty strong word. Kind of like Shamu 'swims'.
RetroRevolver77
09-26-16, 14:05
He took an oath and signed a contract. He is a POS lowlife that just happen to get the keys to stuff he should never have gotten access to, he was not a part of the system... His employer was at fault as much as him. He wanted fame, that is it.
Now he tours around conning everyone into believing he is some kind of blackhat genius. The guy is a fraud.
He took an oath and upheld it, to defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC.
Here are some FACTS: Snowden wasn't just an IT guy. He created the software, "Heartbeat" which is what the CIA and NSA used to get information on people. Snowden wasn't allowed to use the software except to run analysis- which was his job. Heartbeat was like Google where you could type people name in a search bar and you could peer into there lives and view there financial transactions, phone records, social media, bank statements, friends, family etc. Snowden realized that it wasn't terrorist that were being spied on, it was bankers, presidential candidates, foreign leaders, celebrities and out of all the traffic from Heartbeat, the US has more than Pakistan, Russia, China and N Korea combined. You didn't need a warrant thanks to FISA and that is when Snowden decided to go public.
I think what he did was wrong, but I think what the government was doing was wrong. That kind of power and access doesn't belong in the hands of anyone on this earth. It was his liberal girlfriend who persuaded him to go public- she now lives is Russia with him
What he did wrong: He chose himself over everyone else. He reeks of this smarmy, hacker elitest "I am smarter than everyone, therefore deserve no punishment" mentality.
A real man would've gladly been a martyr. Once it was all out in the open, EVERYTHING, where no one country had a monopoly on it. I would go right to the US embassy and own it all. I would go into hock getting lawyers to keep it so public that they would have to give me a very public and very open trial. I would end up in some federal prison but it would all be out there It would stay in the public eye a lot longer than they would like
Nope. Runs off to Russia, sells out to Putin, and it goes nowhere.
One way or another he will die there. Especially once he is no longer egg on American face. He has pissed away any chance for a meaningful trial and made it more about Snowden: Secret Agent Man than NSA keeps tabs on America more than they do the terrorists.
He is no hero, antihero, nor any of that.
He thought he could be big shit and now will die in Russia. I dont care how "modern" they get. He's an outsider, they have a history of corruption, and in 10 more years I will be shocked if he is still alive.
I have to agree with this. If he had fought "the system" for the good and protection of all of us Americans I could and would see it in a different light. He's a traitor for all the reasons Firefly mentioned.
Actually....no. Everybody with a brain was saying that the Pariot Act was KGB Stasi unneeded bullshit back when it was announced. Same with declaring tax agentes and revenuers to be cops by putting a lot of agencies under the unnecessary "homeland security". That was stupid. None of it was about Haji stopping. Just messing with Americans.
Remember when the government passed a law forcing Americans to convert there televisions to digital? Yeah, had absolutely nothing to do with televisions. This happened right around when the Patriot Act was passed. What are the benefits of having digital television? Digital cable, digital internet, digital voice lines and digital smart phones! Easy to get information when it is digital. Digital televisions meant digital phone lines and digital phone lines meant digital internet lines. Digital means not having to go to the nearest cell tower and listen in real time, it means no having to place bugs on individual analog voice/data hubs. Digital means you can access from anywhere.
Outlander Systems
09-26-16, 15:21
To all the talk about fighting the system the "right way", ask William Binney how that worked out for him.
When he tried to rectify problems in-house, using the DoD IG, his "reward" was getting a DoJ raid on his house and weapon shoved down his throat.
They tried alternate dirty tricks with Tom Drake, by means of reclassifying previously unclassified documents in an attempt to ****ing frame the dude. I'm sure prosecutions of the perpetrators resulted. :lol:
So yeah, playing it fair-and-square, on the up-and-up, and taking the high-road really worked out for these dudes...
This thread is a reminder of what good little Germans we all are...:suicide:
Like it or not, Snowden took an Oath. HE applied for the job. HE played the game. This isn't like the movie The Recruit where the government drafted him like the Last Starfighter because he was a walking, talking Zero Cool hacker. Nobody gave him Commando training. He washed because of shin splints. Happens to thousands of young people a year. No accelerated Ranger school. He may have coded, but he was very much entry level. He was no Man in Black.
He has more in common with Bowe Bergdahl than anything else. It's about him. A celebrity. Granted, he incidentally confirmed what we (well some of us more paranoid types) already knew. But in doing so, how many assets were burned in the East? How many men that trusted America to resist their own tyrannical governments died? Men with families. Children.
Who spent years building trust?
And I'm supposed to feel sorry for some spoiled little faggot becaise he has girlfriend issues (it's been a few years. one way or another a ring should've been put on it)
Our government sucks. It does. Yep. I hate it. Everyday.
BUT
Within our government are good eggs. Good men, good soldiers, good agents, good people who do their damndest in spite of their leadership and knowing some of them are dead while Snowden gets to live in Russia upsets me. Making him into a movie upsets me.
I'm just saying if you are are gonna do gangster shit, you better be ready to take gangster lumps.
Snowden helped Snowden. He wanted his quisling money and a beach house in Latin America where he could get high and screw cheap women. He said so. Russia was not his choice.
Shit....I'd sooner he went to CNN as opposed to the Red Chinese and the Russian Federation.
Here's my question: Does anyone think Snowden ever wonders about the American men and allies who died because he wanted to play 007?
I doubt it. Probably making sure the Bank of Moscow is cashing his HOPE and DefCon speaking fees on time and playing some russian teenybopper on WarFace and trying to figure out what "pidar paa Englisski" means.
So screw him. The horse he rode on. And the man who sold it to him.
Whiskey_Bravo
09-26-16, 15:55
I have to agree with this. If he had fought "the system" for the good and protection of all of us Americans I could and would see it in a different light. He's a traitor for all the reasons Firefly mentioned.
lol, if he "fought the system" he would be dead, in prison on trumped up charges, or whatever. It hasn't worked out for the previous guys that tried to "fight the system".
lol, if he "fought the system" he would be dead, in prison on trumped up charges, or whatever. It hasn't worked out for the previous guys that tried to "fight the system".
If the cause is just enough, anybody can be a kamikaze.
So far it is SSDD aside from Snowden making more money now than when he did as a GS-13 ($75k a year, pretty modest) and putting good men in the dirt.
RetroRevolver77
09-26-16, 16:13
If the cause is just enough, anybody can be a kamikaze.
So far it is SSDD aside from Snowden making more money now than when he did as a GS-13 ($75k a year, pretty modest) and putting good men in the dirt.
I wouldn't say they are good or not good people and we may never know how many died because of the information leaked.
However what I do know is that exposing treason and routing corruption should be the utmost duty of anyone who serves their country.
I wouldn't say they are good or not good people and we may never know how many died because of the information leaked.
However what I do know is that exposing treason and routing corruption should be the utmost duty of anyone who serves their country.
Welp. All well and good but gee whiz to the Red Chinese and Russian Federation gotta be in on it too?
The same Red Chinese who have the great firewall and execute on humbugs and the same RF that invades sovereign nations and downs civilian airliners. I wonder how many rubles the passengers' families got. I bet it starts with zero
RetroRevolver77
09-26-16, 16:19
Welp. All well and good but gee whiz to the Red Chinese and Russian Federation gotta be in on it too?
I honestly don't understand your question- seems to be an incomplete sentence.
I honestly don't understand your question- seems to be an incomplete sentence.
I have twitchy fingers. I think going to rival, non-ally nations was poor form.
We disagree. I guess all I have to say on Snowden is merely F him, his horse, and man who sold it to him.
as far as the US is concerned, there are 2 sets of laws. one set for you and I to obey and another set for the government to interpret. The US says it doesn't spy and plays by the rules yet Francis Gary Powers was shot down over Russia in a U-2, a stealth drone was downed over Iran and Snowden released classified info about intelligence gathering so I put 2 and 2 together and say the US spies on everyone. Yet when China or Russia hacks the US, some senate oversight committee wants to have a congressional hearing and talk about economic sanctions against that particular country. Its defiantly a one way street as far as our government is concerned. Francis Gary Powers was not welcomed home as hero, he spent 6 months being interviewed and then discharged. The sailors that were captured by Iran that cost the US $400 million were not welcomed home as hero's, they were disciplined, discharged and one was court martialed then demoted, Private Lynch was interrogated for weeks, had to appear before congress and then discharged. The US wants you when they need you, but if you screw up, cost the government money, time or force them to explain, they are done with you. Years ago we learned that the Gulf of Tonkin was fake, we learned that the Bay of Pigs didn't happen and there weren't 1400 prisoners in Cuba, but only about 27 so its nice to learn the truth every now and then regardless if it hurts a few people, the damage is far less than allowing it to continue. We found out that the US hired Howard Hughes to build a boat disguised as a drill ship to pick up a wrecked soviet submarine off the bottom of the ocean. Our government is capable of a lot and they are really good at keeping things top secret for "national security". Perhaps in 40 years we will come to know about the GWOT, 9/11, Iraq, Desert Storm or if the person we supposedly shot and killed in Pakistan after loosing a top secret stealth helicopter for the world to see was really Osama Bin Laden.
RetroRevolver77
09-26-16, 17:06
I have twitchy fingers. I think going to rival, non-ally nations was poor form.
We disagree. I guess all I have to say on Snowden is merely F him, his horse, and man who sold it to him.
Snowden is just a guy that pulled back the curtain to show us who the real traitors are.
7n6
Didn't see the move and probably won't as I'm not an Olie Stoned fan.
What I'm gathering is that some feel that Snowden is a traitor because he exposed massive government corruption and didn't stick around the USA to be Arkancided at worst or framed to be a kiddy porn distributor at best. So we are saying that if you don't die in your attempt to blow the whistle your effort dont count? Interesting.
Another POV seems to be that he took a job and signed a contract so he should just have kept his mouth shut and gone along. Guessing the same would apply to the whole sword an oath to the crown so all those famous draws white guys should have gone along with the program? Or is that different somehow?
IMO Snowden didn't bring forth any true revelations about what our government was, is and will continue to do despite the Law of the Land thingie. He just reinforced it with enough people to resonate for a bit. Notice how much discussion we are still having about this issue? Seems like a hot topic right below Hillary's vaginal warts, Trumps racism and Brangelinas feud.
He ran and possibly rightly so, cause I'm betting he wanted to live. I'd venture he didn't think he'd be in the run this long. Maybe he was naive enough to have faith in the American public to think they would actually do something. LOL. What an idiot.
Hero or chump? That's a long term decision. Maybe in a few decades it will turn out that he actually did something of value. Nobody knew those dead white guys accomplished anything till AFTER the country didn't flop. I will admit that he is more of a chump right now, cause he screwed himself more than he helped the country.
Eurodriver
09-26-16, 17:44
The "Revelations" were only "Revelations" if you had your head up your fourth point of contact.
Given the fact that no one has been arrested, no policy changes have been implemented, no programs have been terminated, no mass-revolt/protest occurred, and everything's just business-as-usual, the reality of it all should be pretty evident.
There it is.
I love how everyone discusses Snowden personally - no one wants to talk about the shit he (and Wikileaks as well) actually divulged.
Why is that?
Averageman
09-26-16, 17:53
Didn't see the move and probably won't as I'm not an Olie Stoned fan.
I will admit that he is more of a chump right now, cause he screwed himself more than he helped the country.
I think Oliver Stone is an ass, so I will likely skip this one.
I don't agree with what Snowden did, he swore an oath to the People of and to this Country. He made a decision and perhaps was thinking what he was doing was right in a whistleblower kind of way. He went off the tracks by not using the proper channels to report what he knew was wrong.
I would imagine he thought he would be a hero for doing the right thing,
I didn't turn out that way, people just don't have the same outlook on what is and isn't morale, criminal or even wrong anymore. He expected outrage and perhaps he would have got it, but most people are either to stupid or too jaded to expect their government to act legally and stay between the lines.
"Oh, so the .gov is spying on all of us and saving every piece to my life to later be used against me? Ho Hum, thought they would be." I would imagine that to be the typical response.
We're deep in to some Orwellian nightmare and most must just accept it.
Outlander Systems
09-26-16, 18:51
Misdirection. Character assassination. Ad hominems.
I'm ambivalent towards Snowden, as I'm not thoroughly convinced he isn't still a company man.
The fact that many, even here, are quick to condemn him, moreso than the Orwellian Dystopia this country has become, is sobering.
If anyone thinks the surveillence tools exposed won't be used at some point in the future against anyone in opposition to the political milieu, you're either a ****ing idiot, or in absolute denial. If you think these tools can't be, or aren't being used to blackmail politicans, you're either a ****ing idiot, or in absolute denial. If you think these tools haven't had a chilling effect on potential whistleblowers to governmental corruption, or malfeasance, you're either a ****ing idiot, or in absolute denial. If you think these tools aren't being used to circumvent the legal process in criminal cases, you're either a ****ing idiot or in absolute denial. If you think these tools are able to be defeated by VPNs, downloading an app, or using anonymous browsers, as Snowden has suggested, well, then you're just a ****ing idiot.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
Sweet Jesus, I miss America.
There it is.
I love how everyone discusses Snowden personally - no one wants to talk about the shit he (and Wikileaks as well) actually divulged.
Why is that?
Yeah, but what did Snowden really accomplish?
I agree. Snowflakes ass is in Russia and the guys he was working for still have a job and are still very much privy to the terabytes of hentai you and I view in a week. While NOT intercepting terrorism.
So ultimately nothing was accomplished
Right or wrong the reason nothing was accomplished was because most Americans don't give a shit as long as they have their new iPhones, new cars, and Facebook.
Hers ab example. This was posted on Philadelphia Craigslist
"wuts goin on with all this political bullshnizzle? I can't get a good vibe on with all the mind clutter! who gives a fucnut? really just leave everyone alone . You don't like me & I don't like you . so why give truth another thought you know. Lots of big minds to figure shit out . let the rest of the people jus do wut day do .We gotta stop fillin reg peps up with heavy info . Most dont have no reason filln there wacky heads with it . if you dont know how to fix somthin you got no reason fill yo basket with it. shit all ****d because stupids not ignorant of the big problems of the human managment systems . yea ignorance is the solution mass ignorance. the fewer that know the easier to row the boat gently down the stream. you know what i mean."
I work with guys who spend work hours watching the new iPhone press conference speech but can't tell you anything about who's running and why. However they'll tell your car is shit if you have manual windows or a your phone is a year old or you don't Facebook.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Whiskey_Bravo
09-26-16, 23:47
Welp. All well and good but gee whiz to the Red Chinese and Russian Federation gotta be in on it too?
The same Red Chinese who have the great firewall and execute on humbugs and the same RF that invades sovereign nations and downs civilian airliners. I wonder how many rubles the passengers' families got. I bet it starts with zero
Not sure what either one of these have to do with what we are speaking of.
I have twitchy fingers. I think going to rival, non-ally nations was poor form.
We disagree. I guess all I have to say on Snowden is merely F him, his horse, and man who sold it to him.
This is the main thing I agree with. If he was going to do it, he should have at least done it here with a news org or something. Going to Putin was not only bad form, it was retarded.
I have to say I am more than a little surprised at all the people here saying he should have "fought the system", or gone through the proper channels. Yet how many times have i heard here that the system is broken, voting doesn't mean anything, etc, etc, etc. but yet it magically works when you want to expose some of the largest secrets in the nations history? The fact that various .gov orgs spy on almost every single aspect of....well everything?
I have not gone through what all was released. I have no doubt he should have been more selective so he didn't compromise active assets or lives. Maybe he is just an idiot, didn't care, got in over his head, or there were other circumstances. I have no idea. But I have a more than enough reason to not believe the government narrative about what is actually going on. Oaths are taken to protect from both foreign and domestic threats. Blind loyalty is not fulfilling half of that oath.
Not saying I 100% agree with what he did, so please don't misunderstand me. But after it's all said and done I hope at least some good comes from some of the exposure.
Not sure what either one of these have to do with what we are speaking of.
This is the main thing I agree with. If he was going to do it, he should have at least done it here with a news org or something. Going to Putin was not only bad form, it was retarded.
I have to say I am more than a little surprised at all the people here saying he should have "fought the system", or gone through the proper channels. Yet how many times have i heard here that the system is broken, voting doesn't mean anything, etc, etc, etc. but yet it magically works when you want to expose some of the largest secrets in the nations history? The fact that various .gov orgs spy on almost every single aspect of....well everything?
I have not gone through what all was released. I have no doubt he should have been more selective so he didn't compromise active assets or lives. Maybe he is just an idiot, didn't care, got in over his head, or there were other circumstances. I have no idea. But I have a more than enough reason to not believe the government narrative about what is actually going on. Oaths are taken to protect from both foreign and domestic threats. Blind loyalty is not fulfilling half of that oath.
Not saying I 100% agree with what he did, so please don't misunderstand me. But after it's all said and done I hope at least some good comes from some of the exposure.
Revisionism. Snowden did come out here, or did you forget that WaPo and Guardian reporters got a Pulitzer for breaking the story?
There are only so many places in the world you can escape the long arm of the U.S. government. We know very well from the widespread retaliation perpetrated by this government, that he'd have NEVER been treated fairly. He'd be quite lucky to be alive. I'm not saying he's a hero, but not wanting to be a martyr doesn't make him a coward either.
Never forget the true traitors, which are the politicians and bureaucrats and SES level "leaders" who pissed on the Constitution because it suited them and they could. THEY created the phenomenon that is Snowden. Without their perfidy, none of this would've happened and Snowden wouldn't even be a footnote in history.
Never. Forget. :(
Revisionism. Snowden did come out here, or did you forget that WaPo and Guardian reporters got a Pulitzer for breaking the story?
There are only so many places in the world you can escape the long arm of the U.S. government. We know very well from the widespread retaliation perpetrated by this government, that he'd have NEVER been treated fairly. He'd be quite lucky to be alive. I'm not saying he's a hero, but not wanting to be a martyr doesn't make him a coward either.
Never forget the true traitors, which are the politicians and bureaucrats and SES level "leaders" who pissed on the Constitution because it suited them and they could. THEY created the phenomenon that is Snowden. Without their perfidy, none of this would've happened and Snowden wouldn't even be a footnote in history.
Never. Forget. :(
just remember: The DC madam supposedly killed herself just 3 days short of releasing all the names of congressmen, senators, lobbies judges and assistant attorney generals who used her to supply whores. The media reported that she killed herself in her garden by hanging herself. Our government wacked that woman goodfellas style except they didn't drag her out to some corn field, they made it look like suicide. Snowden would have died from falling while getting out of the shower.
just remember: The DC madam supposedly killed herself just 3 days short of releasing all the names of congressmen, senators, lobbies judges and assistant attorney generals who used her to supply whores. The media reported that she killed herself in her garden by hanging herself. Our government wacked that woman goodfellas style except they didn't drag her out to some corn field, they made it look like suicide. Snowden would have died from falling while getting out of the shower.
Let's not forget how they harassed Glenn Greenwald and his partner after publication, and how Holder was running around spying on and "icing" reporters in a foolhardy attempt to intimidate them into not working with whistleblowers.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-27-16, 22:42
The government is big brother! It's spying on me and taking my rights! Someone should do something about this!
And at the same time...
Snowden is a traitor that betrayed our government. How dare someone do something like this!
RetroRevolver77
09-27-16, 23:20
I don't care one bit what Snowden did because the man is a Patriot. As far as I'm concerned, he did the right thing- he told the American people how they were being spied on.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-27-16, 23:35
I don't care one bit what Snowden did because the man is a Patriot. As far as I'm concerned, he did the right thing- he told the American people how they were being spied on.
Agreed. At great risk to his life, he informed the American people that their government saw them as it's greatest enemy.
Agreed. At great risk to his life, he informed the American people that their government saw them as it's greatest enemy.
Being a spy and spilling your guts to an enemy nation is not a patriot in my book. He should have taken the DC madam road if he wanted to be a hero and a patriot. I'm thinking of some words by Patrick Henry right now. I see good in what he did, but it's how he did it, and who else he has given information to that I have a problem with. If you're spying for another country against your own, then you're a damn traitor in my book. Like Firefly said, how many American lives has he cost America?
Outlander Systems
09-28-16, 09:02
He reminds me of that rat bastard traitor Vasili Arkhipov. :rolleyes:
He reminds me of that rat bastard traitor Vasili Arkhipov. :rolleyes:
Doesn't appear to me he traded secrets to the enemy though now does it? Totally different perspective in his case by surfacing instead of being the third person to decide to blindly fire off a nuclear armed torpedo.
Outlander Systems
09-28-16, 12:21
Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations.
(a) In no case shall information be classified, continue to be maintained as classified, or fail to be declassified in order to:
(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error; -Source (https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information)
I don't agree with what Snowden did, he swore an oath to the People of and to this Country. He made a decision and perhaps was thinking what he was doing was right in a whistleblower kind of way. He went off the tracks by not using the proper channels to report what he knew was wrong.
Playing devils advocate as I'm not in the know regarding the big picture implication of what he did or did not spill while on the run.
He swore an oath to the people of and to this country. Which oath is that? I'm not in the loop with the oaths of office for NSA types, but every other oath I am aware of swears allegiance to the Constitution first and foremost. By exposing the vast corruption and domestic spying done by our government did he break his oath? IMO, he did more to live up to that commitment than BHO, Clinton, Comey, Holder and Lunch combined. Was he wrong in not following the chain of command. Maybe, however, given the treatment they other whistleblowers got, were getting and will continue to get under a corrupt regime, I am not 100% certain that he amuse any other valid option. He wasn't spilling the beans on some two bit gun smuggling operation which would have landed him political friends with the GOP. He was spilling the beans on activities that BOTH parties actively participated in. This information was damning to both parties. He would have been killed. Like many before (DC madam as mentioned, reporter who exposed CIA drug running...)
What did he spill overseas? I'm willing to listen to that side of the equation as a separate argument.
There it is.
I love how everyone discusses Snowden personally - no one wants to talk about the shit he (and Wikileaks as well) actually divulged.
Why is that?
Hey man, did ya hear that Brad and Angelina are getting divorced?
Being a spy and spilling your guts to an enemy nation is not a patriot in my book. He should have taken the DC madam road if he wanted to be a hero and a patriot. I'm thinking of some words by Patrick Henry right now. I see good in what he did, but it's how he did it, and who else he has given information to that I have a problem with. If you're spying for another country against your own, then you're a damn traitor in my book. Like Firefly said, how many American lives has he cost America?
Has he been proven to have given secrets that would cause grave or even serious danger to our country, to the Russians, Chinese or anyone other than Greenwald, Poitras or Wikileaks?
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