View Full Version : Trouble controlling humidity
Okay so if this has been discussed before i must have missed it and i do apologize.
Im catching hell trying to control humidity levels in my ammo storage. I live in West Texas far away from the water. Ambient humidity is on average 50% which kind of seems a little higher than i would expect being around here. I have all of my cans plugged full and had to boot the guns out of the safe temporarily to make room for ammo until i can get some more cans. Inside the 14 gun fire safe i have one of the Cannon desiccant cans shown here: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cannon-Silica-Gel-Dehumidifier-Ideal-for-Safes-SGD-57/202724050?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D25H-Security&Safety%7c&gclid=Cj0KEQjwsai_BRC30KH347fjksoBEiQAoiaqsUM_DGaqkZRvM3U6GJiYDeDTqthl3DUDHK4x4119Sj4aAgOd8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
And 5 re-purposed dip cans with holes drilled in them and filled with silica beads. I have a digital humidity meter and the BEST results i have gotten were 45%. I added closed cell foam tape around the door frame to get a nice seal. I am finding that the silica needs to be recharged on average every 2 weeks. This all seems a bit excessive. The only explanation i can come up with in my head is maybe the fire resistant sheet is releasing humidity? Other than that I'm at a loss. I know that 45% is probably actually pretty good, however i don't plan on living out here forever. I plan to move back to GA soon where humidity is an issue and there i will need to do much better than 5% below ambient. What should i be doing differently?
Try an electric dehumidifier like golden rod. No maintenance and very little electrical consumption with great results. Get the longest length that will fit in safe.
Sealing the door will only slow down the humidity change in the safe. It likely has holes in the base for anchoring it to a floor, and a hole for running electric as well. The Golden Rod (or something similar) will help, but to truly control the humidity in the safe you need to control it outside of the safe.
A dehumidifier or AC in that room will help, especially in conjunction with a Golden Rod.
I thought the golden rod just helped circulate air inside the safe by creating heat and pushing humidity up with it? As far as the safe goes, yes it does have anchor points at the bottom. Frankly i plan to get a real one as soon as i buy a house. This is my first safe and its a crappy department store brand. I had been giving some thought to he dehumidifier in the room, that will more than likely be the next step i take. I just never imagined needing something like that in the desert. Thanks guys.
A golden rod is just a small heater. It works by keeping the air temperature inside the safe higher than ambient. Water vapor in the air will only condense (and cause rust/corrosion) when the temperature falls below the dew point.
You can accomplish the exact same thing by leaving a light bulb turned on inside your safe (which actually works better, since it generates more heat). Here in NC I use multiple bulbs in the summer, since it's 90%+ humidity.
Okay i can see that. Thank you!
John, I've got a notion which may be wrong but will throw it out for discussion. Reducing humidity from 99% to 45% may be easier than reducing same from 50% to a lower number. My opinion is that 50% humidity is a really good number not easily obtainable. Your ammo should love it.
I have ammo stored in ammo cans with a silica gel packet inside the can. It's very humid here but I have not seen adverse effects on the ammo. I have guns in the safe and use the golden rod and silica inside the safe. I haven't measured the humidity inside the safe but I also have a dehumidifier in the man cave.
Eurodriver
09-30-16, 19:28
John, I've got a notion which may be wrong but will throw it out for discussion. Reducing humidity from 99% to 45% may be easier than reducing same from 50% to a lower number. My opinion is that 50% humidity is a really good number not easily obtainable. Your ammo should love it.
I concur with this. I don't think my safe/ammo has ever seen <50% humidity.
My current storage area is a basement that with the dehumidifier I run at about 50% most of the year, probably runs between 60%-35% depending on the season. I haven't had an issue. I also run 2 golden rods in my safe and my ammo is in cans stacked six high.
That said, I also used to store my guns and ammo in the garage, in the deep south, with a couple exceptions I never had an issue and I only had one golden rod in my safe so what the hell do I know.
I thought the golden rod just helped circulate air inside the safe by creating heat and pushing humidity up with it? As far as the safe goes, yes it does have anchor points at the bottom. Frankly i plan to get a real one as soon as i buy a house. This is my first safe and its a crappy department store brand. I had been giving some thought to he dehumidifier in the room, that will more than likely be the next step i take. I just never imagined needing something like that in the desert. Thanks guys.
You're correct. A Goldenrod does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to remove humidity. Just like turning your furnace on or leaving the lights on in your house does nothing to reduce humidity. For some reason, people know that but yet think a gun safe is different.
The volume of air in your safe is a constant, therefore the moisture content is a constant. Since warmer air has the potential to contain more moisture than colder air, raising the temperature within your safe (while the moisture content stays the same) only lowers the "relative humidity". (Relative to the temperature). It's smoke and mirrors for those who don't understand RH. They just think a lower RH must be better.
Here's a little factoid. Air at 80°F with 50%RH contains more moisture than 60°F air with 80%RH.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-vapor-air-d_854.html
There's only a handful of technologies that actually remove moisture from air; absorption, compression, and refrigeration.
The best you can do is use desiccant or a dehumidifier. Keep the temperature inside your safe as low as possible.
What's the current temperature inside your safe. The RH alone means nothing unless we know the temperature.
The area where I keep reloading supplies is kept between 50% and 60% humidity year round. I am still using primers and powder I purchased 20 years ago without any issues.
If you can maintain 50% humidity, I think you should be good to go.
As stated before, the golden rod is a heater to keep the ambient air above the dew point. Warmer air (I believe) can hold more water vapor than colder air; i.e. two seperate 1cuft boxes of air, 1 @ 35° and one at 80°. Both have the same amount of water in them. The 35 degree box after 24 hours would have condensation on the walls while the 80 degree box would be humid, it would not support condensation on the walls of the box.
All fire proof safes are moisture magnets with the layers on unsealed drywall in them. The only sure fire way to remove the moisture is with dehumidification.
I live in the PNW, and I'd be thrilled if I could get my gun room down to 50% relative humidity... I'm usually at 60% or so. I run a de-humidifier in my insulated garage (where I keep my reloading supplies), and I set it at 70%, because above that point condensation forms.
re: Golden Rod... I use several, in the cabinets where I store guns, and where I store ammo.
It's RELATIVE humidity that you're measuring, and as Ttwwaack and Ryno pointed out, warmer air holds more water, so warmer = less relative humidity. AFAIK Ryno's wrong about "absolute humidity," because it doesn't matter: Relative humidity is what's important.
"Refrigeration" does reduce humidity, but the net effect is more heat, so if you run a de-humidifer, then it'll actually heat the room as it draws out the humidity: win-win, because it's reducing the relative and absolute humidity at the same time.
You do NOT want your gun safe cold, because cold alone RAISES relative humidity (see "dew point") and you'll get condensation.
I live in the PNW, and I'd be thrilled if I could get my gun room down to 50% relative humidity... I'm usually at 60% or so. I run a de-humidifier in my insulated garage (where I keep my reloading supplies), and I set it at 70%, because above that point condensation forms.
re: Golden Rod... I use several, in the cabinets where I store guns, and where I store ammo.
It's RELATIVE humidity that you're measuring, and as Ttwwaack and Ryno pointed out, warmer air holds more water, so warmer = less relative humidity. AFAIK Ryno's wrong about "absolute humidity," because it doesn't matter: Relative humidity is what's important.
"Refrigeration" does reduce humidity, but the net effect is more heat, so if you run a de-humidifer, then it'll actually heat the room as it draws out the humidity: win-win, because it's reducing the relative and absolute humidity at the same time.
You do NOT want your gun safe cold, because cold alone RAISES relative humidity (see "dew point") and you'll get condensation.
There's so many things wrong with this post I'm not sure where to really start, plus it's late.
First off, absolutely humidity does matter. It's the absolute moisture content of the air regardless of temperature. You don't care about absolute humidity??? How about leave your guns in a safe full of water? As long as it's warm water, it should be fine, right??
Here's a hint about moisture in your safe: less is better than more. Period
Second, you're not placing a dehumidifier inside your safe, so that's a moot point... but I would if I could, as long as the moisture it removes is discharged outside of the safe. That leaves you with desiccant, which is FAR SUPERIOR in every way, shape, and form to a Goldenrod. It removes moisture from the air, doesn't add heat to the space, and doesn't waste electricity. The win-win comes when the inside of your safe is cooler & has a lower RH than the outside of it.
Third, cooler IS better. I'm not talking cold, but just cooler than the ambient temp of the surrounding area. Generally speaking, cold air is dry air. Ever hear a manufacturer recommend "store in a dry, cool area"? Did you think I was talking about leaving your guns in a fridge??
Adding heat to a space is only introducing the potential to allow more humidity. No thanks.
Why people want add heat to their safe, while wasting electricity is beyond me. Do you guys run your furnace on those hot, humid summer nights? Sounds foolish, doesn't it?
There's more but I'm tired...
Relative humidity does matter. The lower it is, the less corrossion. Putting a cool gun in a warm safe is bad, and removing the moisture is better, but lowering RH can make a difference. Temp increase also increases corrosion, so there is a balance.
At increased temp, assuming the metal is the same temp, less water will be adsorbed.
If you want to assume normal living conditions, you could measure either since temperature is relatively constant inside a home.
BuzzinSATX
10-04-16, 06:21
I've lived all over, mostly leaving guns in cabinets or gun cases without a thought about humidity. I just make sure I put the guns away clean and well oiled (Ballistol mainly used) and I've never had an issue with rust, including on a well worn 35 year old Mossy 500 that's had half it's blueing rubbed off from running around in swamps and woods chasing all manner of birds.
Now they stay in a safe, but I am convinced it's more important to give them an "oil massage" than worry about humidity.
YMMV
There's so many things wrong with this post I'm not sure where to really start, plus it's late.
First off, absolutely humidity does matter. It's the absolute moisture content of the air regardless of temperature. You don't care about absolute humidity??? How about leave your guns in a safe full of water? As long as it's warm water, it should be fine, right??
Here's a hint about moisture in your safe: less is better than more. Period
Second, you're not placing a dehumidifier inside your safe, so that's a moot point... but I would if I could, as long as the moisture it removes is discharged outside of the safe. That leaves you with desiccant, which is FAR SUPERIOR in every way, shape, and form to a Goldenrod. It removes moisture from the air, doesn't add heat to the space, and doesn't waste electricity. The win-win comes when the inside of your safe is cooler & has a lower RH than the outside of it.
Third, cooler IS better. I'm not talking cold, but just cooler than the ambient temp of the surrounding area. Generally speaking, cold air is dry air. Ever hear a manufacturer recommend "store in a dry, cool area"? Did you think I was talking about leaving your guns in a fridge??
Adding heat to a space is only introducing the potential to allow more humidity. No thanks.
Why people want add heat to their safe, while wasting electricity is beyond me. Do you guys run your furnace on those hot, humid summer nights? Sounds foolish, doesn't it?
There's more but I'm tired...
Cooler ambient air is better than warmer, you are correct. The dew point is the temp at which relative humidity becomes 100% and relative humidity determines the temp at which water vapor can condense. Raise the dew point and you reduce the risk of condensation formation. Air inside the safe that is cooler than ambient air is definitely not better. That scenario will decrease the dew point and cause condensation to collect within the safe. Think cold beverage stored inside the fridge, removed and because its colder than ambient temp condensation begins to collect. "Store in a cool dry place" refers to storing in a location that has cool dry ambient air, not within a container that is cooler relative to the ambient temperature, which WILL lower the dew point within the container. See the dew point chart below...
41746
You can attack the problem by increasing the dew point (increasing temp inside the safe), reducing absolute humidity (using a dehumidifier), or both. There are those who argue that because the safe is not a closed system that using both methods is counterproductive, as the more humid ambient air will find its way into the safe to achieve equilibrium within the safe. I personally have not found this to be the case. I use dehumidifiers (the rechargeable large EvaDry desiccant type) and a 40 W lightbulb. My safe is stored in a basement that vents to the outside with standard basement vents. It tends to stay about 2 degrees warmer than ambient temp and around 47-50% humidity. I also have a powered dehumidifier in my basement and the ambient humidity tends to be about 60%.
I suck at explaining this, but relative humidity is very important when it comes to reducing rust or corrosion on your firearms in a safe. The reason a golden rod or light bulb inside your safe prevents rust is that it decreases the relative humidity within that small space, as compared to the air surrounding the safe.
Relative humidity is the amount of water vapor the air is holding as a percentage of what it would be holding if it were 100% saturated. If the relative humidity is 50% at 70 degrees, and you increase the temperature to 80 degrees, the relative humidity goes down because the air is able to hold more water vapor at the higher temperature. When you heat the air inside your safe, this means the air is able to store MORE water vapor than the air outside the safe.
Why is this significant? Dew point. The dew point is the temperature at which relative humidity is 100%. As long as the temperature inside your safe remains above the dew point (i.e. the air is still able to store additional water vapor), condensation will not form, and your firearms should be fine.
You guys are missing the point. I'm not talking about treading the dew point line. I'm also not talking about mechanically cooling your safe either. I'm talking about removing the moisture. I'm also saying it's better to locate your safe to a location inside your home where temperature is more even & acceptable, like say 65-75°, as opposed to a 90° garage.
If there's a humidity problem, the right thing to do is remove the moisture. Not raise the temp. Remember, the moisture is what's causing the rust problem. Why would you not not want to remove it?? If you take a space that has high humidity (air with high moisture content) and raise the temp, guess what? The moisture content within your safe is still the same.
Even if you maintain the temp inside the safe while removing moisture, via desiccant, you're lowering the RH more effectively.
Go after the problem, which is the moisture.
You guys are missing the point. I'm not talking about treading the dew point line. I'm also not talking about mechanically cooling your safe either. I'm talking about removing the moisture. I'm also saying it's better to locate your safe to a location inside your home where temperature is more even & acceptable, like say 65-75°, as opposed to a 90° garage.
If there's a humidity problem, the right thing to do is remove the moisture. Not raise the temp. Remember, the moisture is what's causing the rust problem. Why would you not not want to remove it?? If you take a space that has high humidity (air with high moisture content) and raise the temp, guess what? The moisture content within your safe is still the same.
Even if you maintain the temp inside the safe while removing moisture, via desiccant, you're lowering the RH more effectively.
Go after the problem, which is the moisture.
But if dew point remains the same, and you raise the temp, you lower the RH which will slow corrosion, which is the point.
Rust is the problem, you can deal with it a few different ways. Removing water vapor is one way, probably the best, but it's not the only way.
You guys are missing the point...
If there's a humidity problem, the right thing to do is remove the moisture. Not raise the temp. Remember, the moisture is what's causing the rust problem. Why would you not not want to remove it?? If you take a space that has high humidity (air with high moisture content) and raise the temp, guess what? The moisture content within your safe is still the same.
I'm not a physicist or a chemist, but AFAIK it's relative humidity that results in rust, because it leads to condensation. The moisture content of the air itself is pretty much irrelevant.
Regardless, if your gun safe is relatively cool, then the air is denser, and then it's holding more moisture...
Back to the OP's questions:
1. 50% humidity is not a problem.
2. When you move to Georgia, a "golden rod" type safe heater will slightly elevate the temperature inside your safe, and it'll keep the air moving within your safe (really, their efficacy claim), which will help prevent rust. You can use dessicant, as well, but I think it's a PITA. Really, you should just keep your guns in your climate-controlled house.
Cooler ambient air is better than warmer, you are correct. The dew point is the temp at which relative humidity becomes 100% and relative humidity determines the temp at which water vapor can condense. Raise the dew point and you reduce the risk of condensation formation. Air inside the safe that is cooler than ambient air is definitely not better. That scenario will decrease the dew point and cause condensation to collect within the safe. Think cold beverage stored inside the fridge, removed and because its colder than ambient temp condensation begins to collect. "Store in a cool dry place" refers to storing in a location that has cool dry ambient air, not within a container that is cooler relative to the ambient temperature, which WILL lower the dew point within the container. See the dew point chart below...
41746
You can attack the problem by increasing the dew point (increasing temp inside the safe), reducing absolute humidity (using a dehumidifier), or both. There are those who argue that because the safe is not a closed system that using both methods is counterproductive, as the more humid ambient air will find its way into the safe to achieve equilibrium within the safe. I personally have not found this to be the case. I use dehumidifiers (the rechargeable large EvaDry desiccant type) and a 40 W lightbulb. My safe is stored in a basement that vents to the outside with standard basement vents. It tends to stay about 2 degrees warmer than ambient temp and around 47-50% humidity. I also have a powered dehumidifier in my basement and the ambient humidity tends to be about 60%.
This is all incorrect. You want to LOWER the dew point.
It's better to do this by removing the moisture. Not raising the temp.
I suck at explaining this, but relative humidity is very important when it comes to reducing rust or corrosion on your firearms in a safe. The reason a golden rod or light bulb inside your safe prevents rust is that it decreases the relative humidity within that small space, as compared to the air surrounding the safe.
Relative humidity is the amount of water vapor the air is holding as a percentage of what it would be holding if it were 100% saturated. If the relative humidity is 50% at 70 degrees, and you increase the temperature to 80 degrees, the relative humidity goes down because the air is able to hold more water vapor at the higher temperature. When you heat the air inside your safe, this means the air is able to store MORE water vapor than the air outside the safe.
Why is this significant? Dew point. The dew point is the temperature at which relative humidity is 100%. As long as the temperature inside your safe remains above the dew point (i.e. the air is still able to store additional water vapor), condensation will not form, and your firearms should be fine.
You explained it well but the problem lies in the bolded part. That's what you don't want. You don't want the potential to "hold" more water in your safe. That air becomes a magnet, so to speak, for additional moisture when you open the door and expose it to higher humidity outside of the safe.
You don't need just condensation to rust. Air with high moisture content will do the job too. This is why it's better to remove the moisture with desiccant.
You can correct the problem (by removing the moisture) or compensate for the problem (by raising the temp). One way is definitely better than the other.
I'm not a physicist or a chemist, but AFAIK it's relative humidity that results in rust, because it leads to condensation. The moisture content of the air itself is pretty much irrelevant.
This is an extremely contradictory statement.
Regardless, if your gun safe is relatively cool, then the air is denser, and then it's holding more moisture...
This is completely wrong.
I'll post this link again.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-vapor-air-d_854.html
This link directly addresses your statement about denser air containing more moisture.
http://www.weatherdudes.com/facts_display.php?fact_id=51
You explained it well but the problem lies in the bolded part. That's what you don't want. You don't want the potential to "hold" more water in your safe. That air becomes a magnet, so to speak, for additional moisture when you open the door and expose it to higher humidity outside of the safe.
You don't need just condensation to rust. Air with high moisture content will do the job too. This is why it's better to remove the moisture with desiccant.
You can correct the problem (by removing the moisture) or compensate for the problem (by raising the temp). One way is definitely better than the other.
But the air outside the safe has the same water concentration, so it's not like a magnet, the absolute humidity stays the same, when you close it and it heats up, the RH drops.
This is all incorrect. You want to LOWER the dew point.
It's better to do this by removing the moisture. Not raising the temp.
Sorry, mistyped. You want to raise the temp within the safe above the dew point.
And I agree with you that removing water vapor is the best option. I really want to find a powered dehumidifier that has an external drain, and is small enough to fit inside my safe. Recharging the EvaDry packs every month gets a bit old.
My personal strategy is to both remove water vapor and raise the temp inside the safe above the dew point. VCI chips are another good option that I need to add.
But the air outside the safe has the same water concentration, so it's not like a magnet, the absolute humidity stays the same, when you close it and it heats up, the RH drops.
Well... Hopefully your safe is sealed from the outside atmosphere & we all know that humidity outside fluctuates...
Also, if your safe has the "same water concentration" as the outside environment, you're certainly doing something wrong.
As I mentioned earlier, moisture doesn't have to be in the condensed state to cause rust. Air with a high enough moisture content will do.
If one cubic foot of air contains "X" amount of moisture (while everything else remains constant) and all you do raise the temp, that same cubic foot of air still contains the same amount of moisture. You only succeeded in allowing a potential for the air to contain (or hold) more moisture.
The Goldenrod only succeeds at distancing itself from the dew point. But since moisture doesn't have to be condensed to cause rust, it really is only a crutch for part of the equation. It also creates some slight air movement via convection.
We use air dryers in my line of work. They are basically either regenerative desiccant or refrigerated dryers & can bring dew points down -100°F. That's some pretty dry air. Of course those are for other applications that require dry air but the end goal is the same. Guess what type of "dryers" don't exist...
I'll say it till I'm blue in the face, if you want to control humidity, you need to remove the moisture. The best way to do this in a gun safe application is via absorption (desiccant).
You either correct the problem or you compensate (partially) for the problem.
BuzzinSATX
10-05-16, 08:53
I'll say it till I'm blue in the face, if you want to control humidity, you need to remove the moisture. The best way to do this in a gun safe application is via absorption (desiccant).
Seems pretty logical to me....Occam's Razor and all that...
Other than excessive blunt force, moisture is the number 1 enemy of electronics. And what's in the box of every new electronic you ever bought? A desiccant pack.
And I have no idea how often your home safe is opened, but mine is opened several times per week. We use it for more things than guns. So I have a safe desiccant pack in my safe because I do think it is a good idea to do so, but seriously, run an oily cloth over your entire firearm and call it good. It's worked for guns for hundreds of years!
Personally, I like Ballistol because it works well for metal, wood, and leather (slings), but any decent CLP will likely do the job.
Again....YMMV
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You are correct. All I'm saying is that distancing the temp from the dew point does slow corrosion. I don't think anyone is arguing removing moisture is best, at least I'm not. But saying that a lower RH does not do anything is not true.
Thank you, Ryno — I'm learning a lot in this thread.
You are correct. All I'm saying is that distancing the temp from the dew point does slow corrosion. I don't think anyone is arguing removing moisture is best, at least I'm not. But saying that a lower RH does not do anything is not true.
This about sums it up for me, too. Dessicant may be a better solution, but I'm too lazy to recharge/cook it every couple weeks. Setting up golden rods and using VCI has been my solution, and even in rainy/humid HumCo, I'm not having any rust problems.
But saying that a lower RH does not do anything is not true.
I'm not sure I've ever said that...
I've been preaching moisture removal, which does lower RH.
ETA: I apologize if I came across as a jack ass with any of this too. That wasn't my intention. I don't care what people use, I just don't want people who use a Goldenrod or the like, to automatically think... they're golden. They should understand the dynamics & limitations of the devices.
I'm not sure I've ever said that...
I've been preaching moisture removal, which does lower RH.
ETA: I apologize if I came across as a jack ass with any of this too. That wasn't my intention. I don't care what people use, I just don't want people who use a Goldenrod or the like, to automatically think... they're golden. They should understand the dynamics & limitations of the devices.
I thought you were suggesting it, my fault. Looks like we're all on the same page.
I dont think you came across as a jackass, btw.
Okay so if this has been discussed before i must have missed it and i do apologize.
Im catching hell trying to control humidity levels in my ammo storage. I live in West Texas far away from the water. Ambient humidity is on average 50% which kind of seems a little higher than i would expect being around here. I have all of my cans plugged full and had to boot the guns out of the safe temporarily to make room for ammo until i can get some more cans. Inside the 14 gun fire safe i have one of the Cannon desiccant cans shown here: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cannon-Silica-Gel-Dehumidifier-Ideal-for-Safes-SGD-57/202724050?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D25H-Security&Safety%7c&gclid=Cj0KEQjwsai_BRC30KH347fjksoBEiQAoiaqsUM_DGaqkZRvM3U6GJiYDeDTqthl3DUDHK4x4119Sj4aAgOd8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
And 5 re-purposed dip cans with holes drilled in them and filled with silica beads. I have a digital humidity meter and the BEST results i have gotten were 45%. I added closed cell foam tape around the door frame to get a nice seal. I am finding that the silica needs to be recharged on average every 2 weeks. This all seems a bit excessive. The only explanation i can come up with in my head is maybe the fire resistant sheet is releasing humidity? Other than that I'm at a loss. I know that 45% is probably actually pretty good, however i don't plan on living out here forever. I plan to move back to GA soon where humidity is an issue and there i will need to do much better than 5% below ambient. What should i be doing differently?
Check out Zcorr bags. They make vacuum sealed bags for firearms, but I'm pretty sure they make ammo can liners too. You should be able to store your ammo or firearms indefinitely without issue. My first hand experience with their stuff has been very good. I have an heirloom 1911 that I plan to store long term and pass down to my kids. Before I threw it some bag, I decided to do some long term testing with something cheap. Threw a brand new, bone dry Glock 19 in one of their pistol bags six years ago and it still looks the same as the day I got it. I checked it periodically and after the first year, I stopped checking but maybe once a year.
Tspeis
Check out Zcorr bags.
+1. I have Zerust stuff, but AFAIK it's the same.
I have my generator in a big Zerust bag. I have the tabs in with various tools, and the big blocks in my gun cabinets. So, far, no rust...
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