Are these results standard for the BCM SS410 barrels?

[sidewaysil80]

I posted this on Snipers Hide to get a little more insight, but I figured I'd get more useful experience from the AR crowd over here.

I recently picked up a 18" BCM SS410 complete upper to compete in the DMR matches held within my region. I had VERY good luck with the Rainier Arms 18" Match Barrel in the past, so I figured the BCM SS410 Match Barrels would yield similar results. I tested the following types of ammo:

Freedom Munitions .223 69gr HPBT
Freedom Munitions 5.56 77gr HPBT
Federal Gold Medal Match .223 69gr (Sierra Match King bullets)
Fiocchi .223 69gr (Sierra Match King bullets)
Fiocchi .223 77gr (Sierra Match King bullets)
IMI 5.56 69gr (Sierra Match King bullets)
IMI 5.56 77gr (Sierra Match King bullets)

I shot two 5 round groups back to back (minus time to prep/reload magazine) on the Larue .5" Grid Targets you see below @ 100yds. The one with three different variants was shot back to back but with the different types of ammo. It was an indoor range, well lit, and using a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g477/sidewaysil80/Firearms/SPR%20Targets/IMG_0553_zpsj8h4idox.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g477/sidewaysil80/Firearms/SPR%20Targets/IMG_0552_zpsibgjg6y1.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g477/sidewaysil80/Firearms/SPR%20Targets/IMG_0551_zpsvciibuzd.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g477/sidewaysil80/Firearms/SPR%20Targets/IMG_0550_zpsyi9udo15.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g477/sidewaysil80/Firearms/SPR%20Targets/IMG_0549_zpslippyrcm.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g477/sidewaysil80/Firearms/SPR%20Targets/IMG_0548_zpsz0euz4aa.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g477/sidewaysil80/Firearms/SPR%20Targets/IMG_0547_zpsfdq4da09.jpg

I guess I expected more out of this setup and am curious if this is normal? If it is, then so be it. However I was wondering if these groups look sporadic or perhaps indicative of an underlying issue? If so I'll reach out to BCM to take a look at it and give me their verdict.

Below is what I was able to get out of the Rainier Arms Match Barrel with 69gr and 77gr Federal Gold Medal Match as well as PPU 75gr and what my expectations were based on.
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g477/sidewaysil80/Firearms/Rainier%20Arms%20DMR-SPR%20Rifle/IMG_0351_zps0cklnqo2.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g477/sidewaysil80/Firearms/Rainier%20Arms%20DMR-SPR%20Rifle/IMG_0352_zpsftyh1rvw.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g477/sidewaysil80/Firearms/Rainier%20Arms%20DMR-SPR%20Rifle/IMG_0353_zpsjypekmrn.jpg

[sidewaysil80]

I forgot to mention that the barrel was broken in following the Krieger recommended break in procedures per BCM instructions. Everytime it has been cleaned a Dewey coated rod and JP bore guide have been used.

[Endur]

Not encouraging considering I have recently purchased a BCM SS410 for an SPR build.

[Ryno12]

I would say no, it's not normal. I've shot 10 round groups under an inch with my 20" SS BCM and I'm by no means a precision shooter.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161009/48a3d3f1328e903c5d0232e3d8dd92d0.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161009/045ad0483f84f5df569777de831830f8.jpg

[Eurodriver]

Was it just the barrel you bought? What kind of muzzle device is on it, who installed it?

[sidewaysil80]

Was it just the barrel you bought? What kind of muzzle device is on it, who installed it?

Sorry, should have posted that earlier.



Upper is a complete factory BCM upper receiver group. It features their 18" SS410 barrel, Bootleg Inc. pic-mod handguard, BCM Gunfighter Comp, BCM gunfighter charging handle, BCM complete bolt carrier group.

Lower receiver is a complete factory BCM lower receiver group with intermediate (a5) buffer system. Scope is mounted via American Defense Manufacturing recon scout mount.

[Eurodriver]

Sorry, should have posted that earlier.



Upper is a complete factory BCM upper receiver group. It features their 18" SS410 barrel, Bootleg Inc. pic-mod handguard, BCM Gunfighter Comp, BCM gunfighter charging handle, BCM complete bolt carrier group.

Lower receiver is a complete factory BCM lower receiver group with intermediate (a5) buffer system. Scope is mounted via American Defense Manufacturing recon scout mount.

Is the scope the same one you used on your RA match?

There's definitely an issue.

[HKGuns]

Are you sure the scope is mounted securely?

[sidewaysil80]

Is the scope the same one you used on your RA match?
No, I had the same make and model on the Rainier rifle but I sold the entire rifle and setup. I wanted to get back into DM Matches so I bought the BCM rifle and scope. This particular scope was purchased used but it appeared to be in virtually brand new condition. The gentleman who I purchased it from claimed it was never mounted.
The only other difference is the Rainier had Seekins Precision rings as opposed to the one piece ADM Mount on the BCM.

Are you thinking the opening up from tight group to large group you see in some of the pictures could potentially be due to the optic? I was thinking that but figured it wouldn't group at all if the scope was bad.


Are you sure the scope is mounted securely?
After setting it to optimum eye relief I used a small level on the receiver and small level on the top of elevation cap. After ensuring they were even I tightened the mount gradually at the bottom rings, then top rings, torqued the bottom rings to 25-30 in/lbs, then torqued the top rings to 25-30 in/lbs using a wheeler fat wrench. I followed the instructions supplied with the ADM mount.

(I genuinely appreciate everyone's input by the way)

[Vegas]

I have the 16" version on a factory upper. It took a good few hundred rounds for the accuracy to improve for me. I am by no means a sharpshooter and probably average about .85 MOA with my handloads using Hornady 75gr and a little less with Nosler 55gr Varmint projectiles. I posted a thread when I first got my upper asking about accuracy expectations. I recall someone with the 18" upper posting about some impressive results.

[MitchK]

Here's my 20" bcm rifle. I shot this group last week. 77 smk with 23.7 gr of varget

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/gomez308/71ffb7ade0f1665b63cac8d8063c3834_zps5e4o9tno.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/gomez308/fb8328745b7c9fee146cad09120f0231_zpsij5erzdw.jpg

[mtdawg169]

Sorry, should have posted that earlier.



Upper is a complete factory BCM upper receiver group. It features their 18" SS410 barrel, Bootleg Inc. pic-mod handguard, BCM Gunfighter Comp, BCM gunfighter charging handle, BCM complete bolt carrier group.

Lower receiver is a complete factory BCM lower receiver group with intermediate (a5) buffer system. Scope is mounted via American Defense Manufacturing recon scout mount.
First thing I would do is to ditch the comp and install a plain jane A2 or Smith Vortex. I'd try it with the A2 first to see if the comp was causing any issues.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Pappabear]

Yea something is way wrong. That is a greT barrel. I would double back on mount and scope. See if you have a buddy that has another optic. Throw it on

You could shoot a better group with that BCM barrel with a RDS or ACOG if you have one. I had a similar problem on a bolt gun with a Nikon scope. Threw on a ACOG and shot a much much tighter group. Try a different mount and optic. Before you start tearing the gun apart. The barrel will shoot sub moa all day long if it's in the norm. I suspect it is. Even if you got a lemon, it would shoot better than that.

Good luck.

PB

[Kain]

I expected to click on this thread and see someone bitching about a barrel not liking a certain load, have an RRA barrel like that. I did not expect this or that hte OP would have covered so many loads. I guess my assumptions got me good this time.

Haven't played with BCM's stainless barrels. YET. But, considering I have printed grouped better than that with a 4x TAO1NSN ACOG and milspec trigger off the magazine with a BFH barrel with Prvi 75gr and Hornady steelmatch 55gr and 75gr. And by better I have had a few, when I was really on that were quarter sized, and more than 3 or 5 shot. I would say something is up somewhere the barrel, optic, or mount. I await further information to see what fixes this and gets the OP back to where he should be group wise.

[sidewaysil80]

Thanks so much for confirming my suspicions.

1. First thing I'm going to do is explain my situation to Vortex and see if they're willing to take a look at the scope; so I can at least rule that out.

2. In the meantime I'll see about finding/using a different mount and optic and see if that helps. That way I can rule out the mount.

3. If nothing else works I'll reach out to BCM and make sure they will still warranty the upper if I replace the compensator with an AAC brake I have available. That will allow me to rule out the muzzle device.

4. If all else fails I'll send BCM all of my target sheets and the upper and see what they say.

If anyone else has any other suggestions or advice I look forward to hearing it!!!

[Joe Mamma]

After setting it to optimum eye relief I used a small level on the receiver and small level on the top of elevation cap. After ensuring they were even I tightened the mount gradually at the bottom rings, then top rings, torqued the bottom rings to 25-30 in/lbs, then torqued the top rings to 25-30 in/lbs using a wheeler fat wrench. I followed the instructions supplied with the ADM mount.


You may have overlooked something. If your ADM Recon mount has QD throw levers ( I couldn't tell if it does frrom your picture), check if the mount is loose on your rail. I had an issue with that happening with an ADM Recon-X mount. I think the screws (attached tot he levers) stretched or something.

Joe Mamma

[Onyx Z]

Did you remove copper or just clean the carbon out?

[sidewaysil80]

Did you remove copper or just clean the carbon out?

Just the copper using Hoppes 9, should I run some sweets or something through it? I've never used anything other then Hoppes 9 for cleaning barrels, but I'll look into it. Do you run the sweets through a couple times and then run Hoppes through it like normal?


You may have overlooked something. If your ADM Recon mount has QD throw levers ( I couldn't tell if it does frrom your picture), check if the mount is loose on your rail. I had an issue with that happening with an ADM Recon-X mount. I think the screws (attached tot he levers) stretched or something.

Joe Mamma

I'll double check that tonight, thanks for the tip!

[Eurodriver]

I wouldn't even bother with cleaning copper out of the barrel. Those groups are too big for a brand new barrel.

I would shoot the gun with another proven scope, and if the results are the same I would send it back to BCM.

[MegademiC]

Thanks so much for confirming my suspicions.

1. First thing I'm going to do is explain my situation to Vortex and see if they're willing to take a look at the scope; so I can at least rule that out.

2. In the meantime I'll see about finding/using a different mount and optic and see if that helps. That way I can rule out the mount.

3. If nothing else works I'll reach out to BCM and make sure they will still warranty the upper if I replace the compensator with an AAC brake I have available. That will allow me to rule out the muzzle device.

4. If all else fails I'll send BCM all of my target sheets and the upper and see what they say.

If anyone else has any other suggestions or advice I look forward to hearing it!!!

I would throw some irons or any other known-good sight and try it out before anything else. My buddy has that same barrel and 5 shots should be 1 inch or less. 3 shot groups of handload can be covered by a dime most of the time.

[HKGuns]

You did your scope pretty much exactly as I do mine with great results. I agree to try another scope just to be sure.

[Onyx Z]

Just the copper using Hoppes 9, should I run some sweets or something through it? I've never used anything other then Hoppes 9 for cleaning barrels, but I'll look into it. Do you run the sweets through a couple times and then run Hoppes through it like normal?

Try again without removing the copper. It usually takes a few fouling rounds before a clean copper-free barrel starts grouping well with jacketed bullets (SMK's, Nosler CC's, etc). This is very likely the culprit in your case.

Solid copper bullets are a different story however.

[The Godevil]

I bought one of the BCM mk12 uppers a few months ago and am having the same issues that the OP is. I've tried several types of ammo, three optics, and two mounts with no success. Upper has been sitting in the back of the safe since I have 16" chrome lined carbines that shoot much better.

[sidewaysil80]

I bought one of the BCM mk12 uppers a few months ago and am having the same issues that the OP is. I've tried several types of ammo, three optics, and two mounts with no success. Upper has been sitting in the back of the safe since I have 16" chrome lined carbines that shoot much better.
Have you reached out to BCM? I just sent them an email explaining my position and attached the targets for troubleshooting/their opinion...

[hombre]

If you're serious about breaking in the barrel, I'm not sure Hoppes 9 is all that good at removing copper, I know Sweets works. I usually use something like shooters choice to remove the powder residue and then use Sweets. If you do use Sweets, make sure you don't use it without first removing any other residual solvent such as Hoppes from the barrel by at least dry patching and preferably with 99%isopropyl alcohol followed by dry patching - do not mix solvents, that can do bad things to the barrel. And don't leave a solvent like Sweets in the barrel for too long.

[The Godevil]

Have you reached out to BCM? I just sent them an email explaining my position and attached the targets for troubleshooting/their opinion...

I did...I explained in detail of how inaccurate it is and all of the steps that I took trying to get it to shoot. They responded quickly with details of how the mk12 is a precision grade weapon system that differs from standard milspec configurations and instructions on breaking in the barrel. If it could shoot a consistent 1.5 moa with proven ammunition I'd continue working with it. It shoots patterns instead of groups. Got tired of wasting matchkings and put the RRA upper back on which shoots under 1 moa. I'm gonna buy another barrel for the BCM and go from there. Happy shooting!

[mtdawg169]

I did...I explained in detail of how inaccurate it is and all of the steps that I took trying to get it to shoot. They responded quickly with details of how the mk12 is a precision grade weapon system that differs from standard milspec configurations and instructions on breaking in the barrel. If it could shoot a consistent 1.5 moa with proven ammunition I'd continue working with it. It shoots patterns instead of groups. Got tired of wasting matchkings and put the RRA upper back on which shoots under 1 moa. I'm gonna buy another barrel for the BCM and go from there. Happy shooting!
Quite frankly, that sounds like a scripted response from the level 1 customer service person who has to field tons of emails everyday. I would not accept that answer, nor would I replace the barrel before pressing a bit harder for a better response from BCM.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[sidewaysil80]

Small update:

Tested with different optic/mount and the results were virtually the same. I reached out to BCM and the next day I had a response similar to the one outlined above. I responded explaining my testing method and how barrel HAS been broken in etc. etc. , they replied with a return shipping label and said they will take a look at it and inspect it.

I'm genuinely hoping that they fix it or replace it and provide me with better shooting one. Their customer service has been spot on and I've been pleased with all of their other products. I'll keep the thread updated.

[Eurodriver]

Small update:

Tested with different optic/mount and the results were virtually the same. I reached out to BCM and the next day I had a response similar to the one outlined above. I responded explaining my testing method and how barrel HAS been broken in etc. etc. , they replied with a return shipping label and said they will take a look at it and inspect it.

I'm genuinely hoping that they fix it or replace it and provide me with better shooting one. Their customer service has been spot on and I've been pleased with all of their other products. I'll keep the thread updated.

PM inbound

[Pappabear]

I'm surprised they are suggesting breaking in the barrel mentality. Very few subscribe to that approach these days. I clean my barrels very rarely. More damage is done by people scrubing their barrels than by shooting them.

Even more surprised two different shooters having issue with their precision barrels. There must have been a bad lot because those barrels are top shelf.

I sure hope they get you guys dialed in. If you get a new barrel. Shoot a couple hundred rounds before cleaning.

Keep us posted.

PB

[mtdawg169]

I'm surprised they are suggesting breaking in the barrel mentality. Very few subscribe to that approach these days. I clean my barrels very rarely. More damage is done by people scrubing their barrels than by shooting them.

Even more surprised two different shooters having issue with their precision barrels. There must have been a bad lot because those barrels are top shelf.

I sure hope they get you guys dialed in. If you get a new barrel. Shoot a couple hundred rounds before cleaning.

Keep us posted.

PB
Yeah, I've never seen barrel break in make a 1.5 MOA gun into a 0.75 gun.

[Mav]

I recall someone not long ago posting about a BCM ss410 barrel grouping terrible as well. I hope this is not a pervasive problem and that BCM takes care of it if it is. I have one of these barrels in a DMR I havent finished yet and that'd be a bummer if it shot this poorly.

[chonathin]

I bought a 16" ss410 barreled upper from them around 2 years ago, give or take. When I removed the muzzle break I noticed that the barrel had never been finished. No crown and a very pour threading job, so bad that after removing the BCM Comp, an A2 and Smith Vortex would not thread to the shoulder. I sent it back to BCM and they cleaned the threads and cut a crown. All my groups look like the OP's with an assortment of factory match loads. The best load I've found so far is markm's 77gr. load with H322 that produces .9 - 1.2 moa consistently. I'm still working on the load so who knows, I might squeeze some more out of it. The interesting thing about this barrel is it shoots run of the mil XM193 relatively well in my eyes, 2 - 2.5 moa, so its always an internal struggle of mine whether or not to re-barrel.

[rainman]

I own a complete UR group with this barrel, purchased direct from BCM in 2013.

Mine has shot very well since day 1; MOA or sub-MOA when fed quality ammo. During a scoped-rifle course earlier this year I was shooting under MOA using CBC Magtech Mk262 clone and achieving solid hits to 600 yds with a 2.5-to10x Nightforce.

I followed no break-in procedure (don't recall BCM recommending one at time of purchase) and agree with others who would not expect a significant improvement in accuracy with more shots fired.

Watching with interest to see how BCM handles this.


-Rainman

[Mav]

I bought a 16" ss410 barreled upper from them around 2 years ago, give or take. When I removed the muzzle break I noticed that the barrel had never been finished. No crown and a very pour threading job, so bad that after removing the BCM Comp, an A2 and Smith Vortex would not thread to the shoulder. I sent it back to BCM and they cleaned the threads and cut a crown. All my groups look like the OP's with an assortment of factory match loads. The best load I've found so far is markm's 77gr. load with H322 that produces .9 - 1.2 moa consistently. I'm still working on the load so who knows, I might squeeze some more out of it. The interesting thing about this barrel is it shoots run of the mil XM193 relatively well in my eyes, 2 - 2.5 moa, so its always an internal struggle of mine whether or not to re-barrel.

I'd be interested to see what the op's threads and crown look like.

[sidewaysil80]

I'd be interested to see what the op's threads and crown look like.

Its packed up and I was planning to ship it back in the morning. However, that's an interesting point you raised so I'll take it off tonight and post pics. Thanks for the tip!

[misfit47]

So were you able to get some pics or inspect the crown.

[meausoc]

I bought the BCM SS410 18" 1/8 twist upper w/VTAC rail on 2/25/2015 and my accuracy results mirror yours. I am very disappointed in this rifle as it was going to be my primary coyote gun. While the accuracy is not bad its not great as I was looking for groups that I could cover a five shot group with a quarter. As for the crown on my barrel it could have been damaged when received it but I put a AAC 51T mount on it right after I got it. I think I may remove the mount to double check after see others having the same problem with this upper. For testing I was outside shooting from a concrete bench at 100 yards with a sandbag for my front rest. For comparison results I shot my BCM 16" Mid-length with a 1/7 twist with the same ammo and it shot almost as well as the SS410 barrel. Testing protocol was to fire a five shot group, let the barrel cool, fire a five shot group suppressed, and then fire a five shot group with the Middy to compare.42059
Ammo used was:
64gr Berger with 24.1 grains of Varget (second best group)4206042061
55gr Hornady V-Max with 24.6 grains of Varget
62gr SS109 Lake City
75gr Hornady BTHP with 22.8 grains of Varget (my most accurate load suppressed)
62gr SS109 24.1 grains of Varget (my version of green tip)
55gr Hornady FMJ-BT with 24.6 grains of Varget (nice group in the middy)

Optic is a Trijicon TR24-3 German #4 1-4x24
Looks like I need to contact Bravo Company and return my upper.

[Pappabear]

Hey Ky Wildcat fan,

What size are those black dots ? I can't read with my blind eyes and phone...

PB

[meausoc]

The dots are 6 inches. I apologize for the pictures being inverted but they were not like that when I uploaded them from my computer. I don't know how to change them on this thread.

[Striker6]

I bought the BCM SS410 18" 1/6 twist upper w/VTAC rail on 2/25/2015 and my accuracy results mirror yours. I am very disappointed in this rifle as it was going to be my primary coyote gun. While the accuracy is not bad its not great as I was looking for groups that I could cover a five shot group with a quarter. As for the crown on my barrel it could have been damaged when received it but I put a AAC 51T mount on it right after I got it. I think I may remove the mount to double check after see others having the same problem with this upper. For testing I was outside shooting from a concrete bench at 100 yards with a sandbag for my front rest. For comparison results I shot my BCM 16" Mid-length with a 1/7 twist with the same ammo and it shot almost as well as the SS410 barrel. Testing protocol was to fire a five shot group, let the barrel cool, fire a five shot group suppressed, and then fire a five shot group with the Middy to compare.42059
Ammo used was:
64gr Berger with 24.1 grains of Varget (second best group)4206042061
55gr Hornady V-Max with 24.6 grains of Varget
62gr SS109 Lake City
75gr Hornady BTHP with 22.8 grains of Varget (my most accurate load suppressed)
62gr SS109 24.1 grains of Varget (my version of green tip)
55gr Hornady FMJ-BT with 24.6 grains of Varget (nice group in the middy)

Optic is a Trijicon TR24-3 German #4 1-4x24
Looks like I need to contact Bravo Company and return my upper.
You have a 18" BCM barrel with a 1/6 twist?

[sidewaysil80]

So were you able to get some pics or inspect the crown.

No, I wussed out. I didn't want to remove the flash hider and potentially mar/damage anything and it bite me in the rear as far as warranty goes. When I looked down the muzzle device/crown I notice a 3-5mm gap between the crown and the base of the muzzle device. I.e. gases could hit this "gap"/chamber before hitting the actual muzzle device. The crown did look pretty flat as I was able to see it since the muzzle device wasn't seated against the crown/barrel due to gap mentioned. However, it could be a small one. I guess I'm at the mercy of BCM at this point. Hope to hear back from them soon...

[meausoc]

You have a 18" BCM barrel with a 1/6 twist?

Thanks, I fixed it 1/8 twist

[C-grunt]

My BCM 16 SS410 shoots groups like that with cheap 55 grn FMJ ammo. I think in the contest we had prior it averaged 1.9 MOA with that 55 grn ammo.

[sidewaysil80]

Well a few days after receiving the upper, a BCM rep called me. Essentially he just had a lot of questions regarding testing method, ammo used, etc. Rep essentially said these barrels are all sub-moa and they have never had a problem before. Said he was going to bore scope it and test it further. I never heard anything back, but I did receive tracking info via email. A day or two later and a brand new BCM SS410 upper arrived. They handled the issued as far as I'm concerned and replaced the product. It would have been nice to hear what their findings (if any) were, but I'm not too picky.

[ReRun]

Great to hear they sent you a new upper. Update us on how this one shoots. My ss410 will not group better than about 1.5 moa which is dissapointing. I'm still going through different loads to find something that will group better but I may have to contact them as well.

[meausoc]

I'm going to load up some Hornady 68gr. BTHP's and give them a shot. If that does not work it's going back to BCM.

[sidewaysil80]

Great to hear they sent you a new upper. Update us on how this one shoots. My ss410 will not group better than about 1.5 moa which is dissapointing. I'm still going through different loads to find something that will group better but I may have to contact them as well.

Sorry to be anti-climatic but I've listed it for sale. I'm not going to bother. For a high quality, reliable shooter; BCM all day. For precision, I'm pursuing other avenues.

[cbx]

It's not the first time a supposably really nice setup doesn't shoot well. I've seen it probably at least a dozen times last 15 years or so.

Used to have an ArmaLite M15 that was just rack grade as could be, with a 1 in 9 twist. That gun out shot a very high-dollar Bushmaster varminter that all kinds of money put into it, and some other custom gun that I have no idea who even built it. Both were running hand loads, really top end Optics, pretty much everything you could put on the guns.

All my ArmaLite had was an armalite two-stage tactical trigger, a crap ass 3-point sling, Burris full-field II 4.5 by 14 scope, and very un-tacticool CAA stock from back in the day. With the Federal 50 grain jhp rounds that Walmart used to sell in their value packs, (which they no longer sell and sucks very much), that gun would absolutely destroy the other two guns inside of 250 yards. Not even in the same zip code performance wise. It would leave ragged holes at 100. Just a complete freak of nature. I hate myself for selling that gun now.....

Someone left a little Red Bull can out on the 200-yard berm that day, within one magazine, I walked up that little can clear up the berm and over hitting it every single time.

The guys that had the big custom guns were pissed as can be.( One of them was the older brother of a guy I went to high school with.)And rightfully so, I would be really upset if I was them too.

It sucks, and sometimes it just happens that way.

I agree with everyone saying that people over clean their guns. I don't get crazy cleaning barrels at all. If anything, I under clean them. I don't think cleaning solves any problems. Just wears them out faster.

Two weeks ago I was at a local range and saw a guy that cleaned every single round. And his gun was at best 3 Moa. The one target looked 5-6 moa at 100 with my spoting scope. Had one target with a buddies gun ( ghetto fabulous ptac) that we were setting up a scope for it that out shot the guy next doors custom bolt gun, with wolf ammo no less...

The take home is don't just assume because you spent a bunch of money that is going to be a track driver. For no more than I've been out in the world, I've seen it not work out all too often.

[C-grunt]

Sorry to be anti-climatic but I've listed it for sale. I'm not going to bother. For a high quality, reliable shooter; BCM all day. For precision, I'm pursuing other avenues.

I think you might be really missing out by not at least trying the new upper. My BCM SS upper has yet to shoot match ammo over 1 MOA on the few occasions I've sat down to group it. And I dont even consider myself to be that great of a precision rifleman. Hell on a decent day when Im on my game it consistently shoots bulk 55 grain ammo under 2 MOA.