View Full Version : Bravo Company Mid-Length Upper Receiver Group - Initial Impressions
I have been a big fan of mid-lenght AR15 carbines for the last 6+ years. It's been just within the last couple years that mid-lengths have started catching on with the masses.
One of the down sides to mid-length carbines (until recently) was that the selection was lacking. Just about every company that manufacturer's AR15's, makes a version of the M4. But if you wanted a mid-length, you only had a few options (until the last couple years). Most of the companies that were producing mid-lengths, many of them were lacking in quality and / or features that many shooters wanted (ie. 1/7" twist, M4 feed ramps, higher grade barrel steel, etc.)
Bravo Company USA came out with a line of uppers a couple years ago that had many features that shooters wanted and they were very competitively priced. Unfortunately for me, I missed out on the first run on Bravo Company's mid-length uppers.
After 2 year wait, I was able to secure a Bravo Company USA 16" mid-length upper, Bravo Company M16 Bolt Carrier Group, and charging handle.
My initial impressions are I'm extreemly impressed with the features and the quality of the upper receiver group, especially when you consider the price point ($449 for the mid-length upper, $130 for the M16 bolt carrier, and $20.95 for the charging handle).
Here are a list of features for both the mid-length upper and the bolt carrier group that I borrowed from Bravo Company's website:
Upper Receiver Features
-M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension (USGI)
-M4 Feed Ramp Flat Top Receiver
-T-Marked Upper Receivers
-USGI 1/7 Twist Rates
-USGI 5.56 NATO Chambers
-Mil-Spec 11595E - 4150 Grade Barrel Steel (CMV)
-Chrome Lined Bore and Chamber
-Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish
-Mil-Spec F-Marked Forged Front Sights
-USGI Government Profile Barrels
-HPT (High Pressure Test) Barrels
-MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Barrels
Bolt Carrier Group Features
-MPI Bolt (Magnetic Particle Inspected)
-Shot Peened Bolt
-Chrome Lined Carrier (AUTO)
-Chrome Lined Gas Key
-Gas Key Hardened to USGI Specifications
-Grade 8 Hardened Fasteners
-Key Staked Per Mil-Spec
-BCM™ Extractor Spring
-Black Extractor Insert
-Mil-Spec Crane O-Ring
For a more detailed description / definition of the features listed above read this document: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BCM%2DURG%2DMID%2D16&Show=ExtInfo
If you take a look at "The Chart" (produced by rob_s) and compare prices, it's easy to see that you can spend more money on another brand and get less features / quality assurance. (The Chart used with the permission of rob_s)
"The Chart" (click on the link on the link below and then click on "Link to Google Document")
http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/69016/68995.html
A little comparison shopping will quickly show you what a great value the Bravo Company (BCM) uppers are.
Bravo Company Mid-Length upper receiver, Bravo Company M16 bolt carrier group, and charging handle:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0770.jpg
Right side of the upper receiver:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0772.jpg
Left side of the upper receiver:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0777.jpg
HP MP 1/7 5.56 NATO marking on the top of the barrel:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0774.jpg
"F" Marked front sight base (proper height for flat top receiver):
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0775.jpg
M4 feed ramps (sorry for the poor quality pic):
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0782.jpg
Bolt carrier group and charging handle:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0781.jpg
Bravo Company M16 bolt carrier group:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0778.jpg
Properly staked gas key:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0779.jpg
MP tested bolt:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0780.jpg
Complete upper receiver on a LMT Defender 2000 lower receiver:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0783.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0784.jpg
I found that the BCM upper receiver fit snug on several LMT lowers, as well as on a Stag Arms lower receiver. Color match wasn't exact, but the BCM upper was very close to both the LMT and Stag.
S/F,
Jeff
.357sigger
09-09-08, 20:47
Nice write up...I am hoping to snag a BCM Middy when the next batch comes out...hopefully:confused:
Robb Jensen
09-09-08, 21:16
I concur, the BCM is the best damn middy available....
Couple that upper and one of Grant's LMT custom lowers - you're only looking at $940. Not a bad deal... Oh... more gun buying thoughts running through my head...
Spooky
Are there any draw backs from the lighter profile barrel? Aside from being heavier, would a N4 contour or a medium contour of say a GTS Operator barrel offer any advantages to a carbine class or competition?
spamsammich
09-09-08, 23:09
If you want, I'd be happy to test that upper on my Noveske lower for you ;) You know, just to help you be even more thorough with your write up.
Are you running the middy with the Crane upgrade in the bolt?
I'm definitely in for the BCM middy. My big decision now is if I want to go with the standard FSB or with an extended Larue rail with flip up sights. I'm thinking of running a Surefire X300 at the 12 o'clock. Decisions!
i like mid length uppers especially in 6.5 & 6.8---
going to pick one up in 5.56 one of these days.
:cool:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q223/db556/middies.jpg
Thought I would chime in as well. These are a pair of my mid-length guns. Top gun is a BCM from a few years ago, bottom gun is a Sabre. They are both great shooters, and have been very reliable. I've been running both with the BCM extractor spring/o-ring kits.
Carl15,
You shouldn't see any downside to the lighter profiles. Both of these guns shoot well past 400 yards after getting smoking hot. I've shot the Sabre gun through an EAG course, and been using it in a little 3-gun and rifle matches. The guns are more than capable, which makes me the limiting factor.
Are there any draw backs from the lighter profile barrel? Aside from being heavier, would a N4 contour or a medium contour of say a GTS Operator barrel offer any advantages to a carbine class or competition?
I prefer lighter barrels and have never seen any difference in accuracy between simular barrels (ie. 16" Govt profile chrome lined barrel vs. 16" HBAR chrome lined barrel ........ made by the same company, using the same ammo, same twist rate, etc.) ....... but my experience is limited to using a 4x - 10x optic on a 100 yard range, comparing accuracy of two different rifles on the same day. I shoot competition with a mid-lenght that has a Govt profile barrel on it and I shoot competition with a mid-lenght that has a Medium profile barrel on it (out to 425 yards) and I can't tell a difference in accuracy between the two barrels.
If you want, I'd be happy to test that upper on my Noveske lower for you ;) You know, just to help you be even more thorough with your write up.
I have (4) complete Noveske N4's, ;) I didn't mention the Noveske lowers because they are not as readily avalibe as Stag and LMT.
The color and fit of the Noveske lower / Bravo Company lower was about the same as the Stag and LMT.
Are you running the middy with the Crane upgrade in the bolt?
Complete BCM extractor spring / black insert, minus the "O" ring. I have a couple other mid-lengths that I have been running for years without the "o" ring.
For approximately a decade I ran nothing but factory insert (most of the time it was the blue insert) and a Wolff extra power extractor spring in ALL of my AR's (14.5" - 20") and never had any extraction problems.
It's just been within the last couple years that I've installed the BCM extractor upgrade kit into almost all of my guns. I've got a couple Mid-Lengths that I'm running with out the "O" ring and have had no issues.
It was explained to me by someone much more knowledgeable than me that the "O" ring was developed for the M4 gas system, but is not needed on the Mid-Lenght or Rifle-Length gas systems. Hopefully someone more knowledgable than me will chime in.
UVvis,
Very nice!!!!! ;)
BCM Mid-Lenght upper receiver group on a LMT Defender 2000 lower receiver:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0787.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
What's the difference in the feel of the BCM build compared to your Noveske N4s.
Thank you for your input.
What's the difference in the feel of the BCM build compared to your Noveske N4s.
I can't give you an "apples to apples" comparison between the BCM and the Noveskes, because I have already installed LaRue 9.0's on the Noveske mid-lengths.
S/F,
Jeff
To me... the downside to the midlength uppers is the LACK of a decent set of standard handguards.
I don't want to have to equip an upper with an expensive rail system.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0791.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
To me... the downside to the midlength uppers is the LACK of a decent set of standard handguards.
I don't want to have to equip an upper with an expensive rail system.
You've had a bad experience with Calvary Arms? They seem serviceable enough.
Anyone Have any BCM Middy's in Stock right now?
I have a Saber Middy, But I want a BCM sooooo bad.
I have about 5 lower's sitting around just waiting on a new upper.
All the Pics and write ups make just loose sleep............
Thanks
Dave
Anyone Have any BCM Middy's in Stock right now?
I have a Saber Middy, But I want a BCM sooooo bad.
I have about 5 lower's sitting around just waiting on a new upper.
All the Pics and write ups make just loose sleep............
Thanks
Dave
Negative Ghostrider
Email Grant at G&R Tactical and he'll put you on his list.
sales@GRTactical.com
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0791.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
Are those the Cavalry Arms C8 handguards?
My "M" in BCM (on my upper) looks as if its been scratched off, but it appears to be in perfect shape cosmetically. Has anyone else noticed this?
Are those the Cavalry Arms C8 handguards?
My "M" in BCM (on my upper) looks as if its been scratched off, but it appears to be in perfect shape cosmetically. Has anyone else noticed this?
I don't know who made the handguards. They came off a Noveske N4 Basic RECCE.
S/F,
Jeff
You've had a bad experience with Calvary Arms? They seem serviceable enough.
In fairness, I have only had experience with the CARBINE length handguards.
And when you can hold a set of those in one hand, and a set of COLTs in the other......
I'd just prefer a "mil spec" set of handguards.
I'd just prefer a "mil spec" set of handguards.
I would too, but I didn't let that dictate whether or not I bought a BCM. :)
Rock River lists a set, as does CMMG which is the most expensive. From a distance the front tabs on the Noveske looks similar to those on the Calvary.
spamsammich
09-12-08, 11:16
I would too, but I didn't let that dictate whether or not I bought a BCM. :)
Rock River lists a set, as does CMMG which is the most expensive. From a distance the front tabs on the Noveske looks similar to those on the Calvary.
All of the Noveske handguards I've seen were double insulated. I picked up a RRA recently that was only single insulated, but it fit well.
All of the Noveske handguards I've seen were double insulated. I picked up a RRA recently that was only single insulated, but it fit well.
Is there such a thing as double shield mid-length handguards?
Is there such a thing as double shield mid-length handguards?
Isn't that what Noveske's are?
torquemada055
09-12-08, 13:46
This may be a slightly moronic question but can you get one of these with an A2 upper instead of the flattop one?
I'm just curious and so is my son.
Isn't that what Noveske's are?
I know their carbine handguards are, I was/am under the impression that no-one makes a double heatshield for the mid-length system.
I know their carbine handguards are, I was/am under the impression that no-one makes a double heatshield for the mid-length system.
M16A2 handguards aren't double heat shielded are they?
MIDDIES LISTED IN STOCK AT BRAVO
Good luck.
I know their carbine handguards are, I was/am under the impression that no-one makes a double heatshield for the mid-length system.
I was unable to find any mid-length double-shield and ordered the Cavarms from Brownells for my BCM.
I concur, the BCM is the best damn middy available....
Better than the Recce basic?
This may be a slightly moronic question but can you get one of these with an A2 upper instead of the flattop one?
I'm just curious and so is my son.
I doubt it. They're out of style. You can just add a BCM carry handle though.
That was a fast sell-out!
22_Shooter
09-13-08, 05:24
MIDDIES LISTED IN STOCK AT BRAVO
Good luck.
I got that email too, but they were already sold out when I checked this morning after work. So after a little crying, I checked Grant's site, and whuddayaknow, the middies were in stock!! Talk about good timing. I got my order in!!
(kinda feels better to give my money to Grant anyway, since I've heard/read so many good things about him and his company)
^ Good for you. I didn't think to check G&R, thinking his allotment was tied up in pre-orders. Goes to shows...
Negative Ghostrider
Email Grant at G&R Tactical and he'll put you on his list.
sales@GRTactical.com
Best way to get a middy. ;)
C4
That was a fast sell-out!
As a general rule, once you see the "in stock" light turn on (for both Paul and I) we have EXACTLY 6 uppers to sell.
C4
spamsammich
09-13-08, 12:43
As a general rule, once you see the "in stock" light turn on (for both Paul and I) we have EXACTLY 6 uppers to sell.
C4
I checked stock at about 2am and almost bought one. Now I'm kicking myself yet again for not giving into the impulse buy ;)
I checked stock at about 2am and almost bought one. Now I'm kicking myself yet again for not giving into the impulse buy ;)
I turned them on last night around 1800 EST and by 0800 they were all gone!
C4
I was unable to find any mid-length double-shield and ordered the Cavarms from Brownells for my BCM.
I assume you went with the C8? Like them?
I'd like to see some pictures of 100 yard groups. I have an SDI 16" middy upper and am wondering how the accuracy compares to SDI barrel.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/3d34a14f.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/3d34a14f.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
So bad ass, you don't even know. Just wait... :cool:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/0c552a6d.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
From this:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/0c552a6d.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
To this:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_0040.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
How do you like that Micro Jeff? I have a middy coming in from Grant and I'm debating the Micro vs. M4. Oddly, I have a Larue BUIS waiting!
How do you like that Micro Jeff? I have a middy coming in from Grant and I'm debating the Micro vs. M4. Oddly, I have a Larue BUIS waiting!
Hi Mark,
I've been running Micro's on several different AR's since early spring. I like the Micro due to the size, weight, cost, and I feel like I'm a little quicker on target with the Micro (hard to explain / articulate, but I feel like I'm faster with the Micro due to the small size of the tube.....I can't put my finger on it, but with the smaller tube, there is less clutter between your eye and the target and it's almost like the dot is floating in the air.....the gain in speed is only preceived at this point in time, but after I'm healed up, I plan on running some drills on a timer over a period of time to see if it's all in my head or not).
That being said, I have also run the M4 and M4S on different guns and really like M4 series as well. I have a M4 on a Noveske N4 mid-length:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Noveske%20N4%20Recce%20Basic%20Black/IMG_0756.jpg
You can't go wrong with either.
- Micro = 4MOA dot (though Freddie says that it's actually between 3 and 4 MOA) / 6.2 oz. (in LaRue mount)
- M4 = 2MOA dot / 12.8 oz. (in LaRue mount)
S/F,
Jeff
Jeff, Hope you're feeling better. I think I'll do the Micro in the Larue. If I don't like it on the AR, I''ll pick up an Ultimak and use it on my Khyber.
Mark
Max Collins
10-16-08, 13:44
Why does everyone have such a hard-on for the BCM to the point that they are willing to wait for months on end? Why not just get a Sabre? I thought Sabre was as good as or better anyway.
Because BCM HPTs and MPIs.
Because Paul, owner of BCM, is a known standup guy.
Because the BCM uppers are a known high-quality product.
Personally, I wasn't really waiting for anything. You make it sound like people are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs, unable to shoot because the BCM uppers took 3 years to come out. That's not the case at all.
Sabre, IMHO, was never anything more than a stopgap until the BCMs became available.
Why does everyone have such a hard-on for the BCM to the point that they are willing to wait for months on end? Why not just get a Sabre? I thought Sabre was as good as or better anyway.
You do not have to wait. They are available.
Sabre barrels (as far as the steel goes) are equal to BCM, but that is where it stops. BCM HPT/MP each and every barrel. Sabre does not.
BCM is also less expensive than Sabre.
C4
Max Collins
10-16-08, 14:48
Thanks for the replies. Which barrel is generally considered to be more precise/accurate?
Thanks for the replies. Which barrel is generally considered to be more precise/accurate?
Between BCM and Sabre? They are most likely the same in the accuracy department.
C4
I'd like to see some pictures of 100 yard groups. I have an SDI 16" middy upper and am wondering how the accuracy compares to SDI barrel.
One month ago I asked to see some 100 yard groups. Has anybody been able to take some pics to show off that BCM accuracy?
Max Collins
10-17-08, 02:23
Royta,
How well does your SDI bbl shoot? Do you have the middy chrome lined barrel that's light under the handguards? What kind of groups have you gotten at what distances and with what ammo? And is it free floated?
I have not put a scope on it to see what kind of accuracy I can squeeze out of it. It is chrome lined, light under the handguards, and is NOT free floated.
I'm confused.
How are you going to compare accuracy if you haven't shot your barrel for groups? :confused:
Hell, I haven't even shot my BCM at all. I'm planning a day off of work just to go hang out at the local range all day and re-zero as many rifles as I can. The BCM will be one of them and if time permits I'll stick the 10x on it and see what I can do with it.
I'm confused.
How are you going to compare accuracy if you haven't shot your barrel for groups? :confused:
Hell, I haven't even shot my BCM at all. I'm planning a day off of work just to go hang out at the local range all day and re-zero as many rifles as I can. The BCM will be one of them and if time permits I'll stick the 10x on it and see what I can do with it.
I never used the word "compare". It's just nice to see how highly respected blaster type uppers can shoot.
Heck, I currently have optics or a rear sight on my rifle. My first AR-15 was a post (during)-ban Bushmaster I bought in 2001. I was using the carry handle on my SDI. When sold my Bushmaster, I put the carry handle back on. Money is going to too many projects, so my one and only AR-15 is not doing me much good.
I never used the word "compare". It's just nice to see how highly respected blaster type uppers can shoot.
That's actually the EXACT word you used, and you even quoted YOURSELF using that word above in Post#56 (http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=233810&postcount=56).
Originally Posted by royta
I'd like to see some pictures of 100 yard groups. I have an SDI 16" middy upper and am wondering how the accuracy compares to SDI barrel.
That's actually the EXACT word you used, and you even quoted YOURSELF using that word above in Post#56 (http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=233810&postcount=56).
Ouch! Did I really say that? ;) :D :D
In regards to HPT on barrels, I see so much emphasis on it. I have never heard of a barrel ballooning or cracking except in cartoons where they get tied into a knot. LOL! I understand the MPT, but is there a real world advantage to HPT to a non-military AR consumer? What percentage of non-HPT barrels fail vs. barrels that have been HPT?
If you just want to use your AR for punching holes in paper, it doesn't matter what barrel you use...just buy a standard 4140 barrel. The whole point of HPT/MP testing is an extra check on a gun that you may have to use to save your life. If you will never use it for that don't worry about it...
Max Collins
10-17-08, 13:06
It'd be nice to see a precision shootout of sorts between the major barrel players. Perhaps someone that has multiple makes of the same platform that could bench several different rifles, using the same magnified optic and same ammo on each one, in an apples to apples comparison. That way we know shooter skill is not a variable.
It has pretty much been established through the chart and T&E which brands you can stake your life on in a harsh environment, but it'd also be nice to know which hard use combat rifles you could count on to, say, take a headshot at 300+ yards, should the need arise (with quantifiable results).
Grant? Rob? I know it's alot to ask, but would one of you guys be up to something like that?
A few problems.
The first is one of ammo costs and the time to sit down and do it. Normally my shooting and reporting has a net cost of zero since I'm shooting for my own purposes and simply reporting what I found. Taking "requests" costs money.
The second would be that the BCM is my first and only middy. I could test a 6520 against a BCM, but then that's not really apples to apples, one is FF and one isn't, etc. I don't really own anything that's set up identically but from different makers.
The last is my shooting ability. :eek: I'm a precision shooter by no means. I haven't the patience for it, and haven't built up the skills for it. While I think there's some value to it, I'm happy to be able to hit 6" at 200 yards, which I can do reliably but is about the extent of my ability.
In regards to HPT on barrels, I see so much emphasis on it. I have never heard of a barrel ballooning or cracking except in cartoons where they get tied into a knot. LOL! I understand the MPT, but is there a real world advantage to HPT to a non-military AR consumer? What percentage of non-HPT barrels fail vs. barrels that have been HPT?
Yes, it is important as HP stresses the barrel and then MP verifies that there are no cracks. MP testing without first HPing the barrel is just about worthless.
Companies that just MP (batch tes) their barrels without first HPing them most likely never have any fail as they never stressed the barrel in the first place (which is what makes the deficiencies show up in the first place).
C4
It'd be nice to see a precision shootout of sorts between the major barrel players. Perhaps someone that has multiple makes of the same platform that could bench several different rifles, using the same magnified optic and same ammo on each one, in an apples to apples comparison. That way we know shooter skill is not a variable.
It has pretty much been established through the chart and T&E which brands you can stake your life on in a harsh environment, but it'd also be nice to know which hard use combat rifles you could count on to, say, take a headshot at 300+ yards, should the need arise (with quantifiable results).
Grant? Rob? I know it's alot to ask, but would one of you guys be up to something like that?
It is really hard to get an idea of how an entire line of barrel are by testing just one. The one barrel you may choose from BCM might be the most accurate one ever and the other brand might be the worst ever.
You also have to contend with getting ammo out of the same batch, wind, human error, etc.
I personally have zero time for me to personally shoot so something like this is a no go.
C4
So does anyone have any first hand experience of an AR barrel splitting, cracking, or anything of that sort? I asked on another forum but nobody could give a stright answer. All they said is that HPT/MPT is necessary but no evidence of a single failure weather tested or not regardless of manufacturer. I understand the importance of bolt testing because there were first hand reports of them breaking, but none of barrels. Just trying to understand.
So does anyone have any first hand experience of an AR barrel splitting, cracking, or anything of that sort? I asked on another forum but nobody could give a stright answer. All they said is that HPT/MPT is necessary but no evidence of a single failure weather tested or not regardless of manufacturer. I understand the importance of bolt testing because there were first hand reports of them breaking, but none of barrels. Just trying to understand.
Most stress fractures will only show up when you MP them (cannot see them with the naked eye) and the answer is yes, I have.
Several manufacturers that I know that HPT and MP advise me that they lose between 1-3% per batch.
C4
Thanks! You're the first person to actually have any kind of an answer to my question regarding the barrel testing process. Of the percentage that failed inspection, what would be the effect of a crack showing up during the MPT in real world use weather it be military or rifle range use? Would the crack open up eventually to let pressure escape & decrease velocity or worse? Thanks.
BravoCompanyUSA
10-17-08, 19:04
A MP "failure" is as defined by the company requesting the test.
Most of what "shows up" on a MP Inspection are inclusions in the barrel. They are not cracks, but they are an indicator of a lower quality barrel steel. (Lower quality than a 11595 spec steel, as an example).
Each rifle company that does a MP Inspection decides where the pass or fail threshold is.
In my MPI experience, I have not yet seen a crack in a barrel.
Great info! So, what would be the negative outcome of running one of your failed barrels that had inclusions? Would the pressure find it's way through the inclusion? Would a crack originate from that point? Would accuracy suffer? Thanks!
BravoCompanyUSA
10-17-08, 19:35
Great info! So, what would be the negative outcome of running one of your failed barrels that had inclusions? Would the pressure find it's way through the inclusion? Would a crack originate from that point? Would accuracy suffer? Thanks!
Our failed barrels get cut in half, so you wouldn't want to run those ;-)
But probably not much.
Most 4150 type steels in the commercial market would not pass a "zero acceptance" criteria as set by Milspec. Many/most will have these surface inclusions.
But the military M4 does not allow these surface inclusions. (Neither does BCM)
Sorry to be a pain in the azz, but assume you put a "failed" barrel through a torture test side by side with a "passed qc" barrel, what would the results look like? Would a soldier armed with one of your or another quality manufacturers "failed" barrels be compromising his/her life in battle?
BravoCompanyUSA
10-18-08, 09:10
Sorry to be a pain in the azz, but assume you put a "failed" barrel through a torture test side by side with a "passed qc" barrel, what would the results look like? Would a soldier armed with one of your or another quality manufacturers "failed" barrels be compromising his/her life in battle?
Not really sure.
As an example, there are lots of commerical steel 4150 barrels and 4140 barrels in the war zones right now. Someone who works with the government on small arms and has a background in barrel metallurgy might be able to give a specific answer. All I do know is Uncle Sam wants one and not the other.
For 99% of shooters, I don’t really think it would make a notable difference.
Thanks! You're the first person to actually have any kind of an answer to my question regarding the barrel testing process. Of the percentage that failed inspection, what would be the effect of a crack showing up during the MPT in real world use weather it be military or rifle range use? Would the crack open up eventually to let pressure escape & decrease velocity or worse? Thanks.
I have not seen any "cracks." Inclusions (as Paul describes them) would be the correct term.
C4
One last thing that was brought up to me yesterday (which I had forgot to mention) is that when you buy a 4140 barrel you also tend to get an out of spec gas port. Typically we find gas ports (on carbines) running from .068-.072. Why is this bad you ask? The mil-std for a gas port is .063. The increased size creates more recoil, more heat, more stress (pressure) and has a better chance of breaking something (like a bolt).
C4
Thanks for clearing up these issues.
SeriousStudent
10-18-08, 10:34
I just ordered a BCM mid-length upper from Grant a few minutes ago. I really do appreciate all the info from the nice folks at BCM and G&RTactical.
Now all we need to to is get LMT to make a few more BCG's for us all.
So many AR's, so little time.....:D
One last thing that was brought up to me yesterday (which I had forgot to mention) is that when you buy a 4140 barrel you also tend to get an out of spec gas port. Typically we find gas ports (on carbines) running from .068-.072. Why is this bad you ask? The mil-std for a gas port is .063. The increased size creates more recoil, more heat, more stress (pressure) and has a better chance of breaking something (like a bolt).
C4
So what is the advantage to a larger gas port?
So what is the advantage to a larger gas port?
Always cycles.
If you're a "hobby maker" selling a cheap gun, the chances that your customers are going to use cheap ammo is increased. So, in order to make sure that the gun cycles, you increase the size of the port to accomodate the cheaper (lower pressure) ammo. Since most of their customers will also never shoot enough to cause parts breakage, you're good to go. In the event that someone shoots higher pressure ammo they *may* encounter problems but it's unlikely and could be offset with an "H" buffer.
So what is the advantage to a larger gas port?
Really none. The reason why these companies use the bigger ones is because they expect their customers to shoot the cheapest, most under pressured ammo available and they do not want calls complaining about the bolt not locking back.
C4
Thank you gentlemen.
Given that, I have a 16" BCM mid-length upper. Should I stick with an H buffer?
Thank you gentlemen.
Given that, I have a 16" BCM mid-length upper. Should I stick with an H buffer?
Yes.
C4
You do not have to wait. They are available.
Sabre barrels (as far as the steel goes) are equal to BCM, but that is where it stops. BCM HPT/MP each and every barrel. Sabre does not.
BCM is also less expensive than Sabre.
C4
If one already had a Sabre Defense barreled upper, is there any reason to replace it with a BCM? I mean, other than the fact that one can not have too many uppers/rifles?
Would you say they are equally as reliable? The only difference is that there was no HPT test performed, therefore there could be a problem with the barrel that I don't know about.
If one already had a Sabre Defense barreled upper, is there any reason to replace it with a BCM? I mean, other than the fact that one can not have too many uppers/rifles?
Would you say they are equally as reliable? The only difference is that there was no HPT test performed, therefore there could be a problem with the barrel that I don't know about.
If you want to buy another upper just buy another lower to go with it.
I would not get rid of a Sabre that's working fine.
spamsammich
10-20-08, 22:12
I would not get rid of a Sabre that's working fine.
I agree. Unless the sabre is busted there you shouldn't ditch it just because it ain't bcm.
Jeff -
How does the length of the UBR compare to the A2 or CTR?
Jeff -
How does the length of the UBR compare to the A2 or CTR?
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking....The A2 is a fixed stock. The CTR and UBR are both collapsable stocks.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0093_edited.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
I mean when fully extended. I know my milspec CTR is pretty much equivalent to the A2 stock; just wondering if the UBR is any longer.
I mean when fully extended. I know my milspec CTR is pretty much equivalent to the A2 stock; just wondering if the UBR is any longer.
I don't have an A2 stock on hand. You may want to give the guys as Magpul a call.
S/F,
Jeff
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0096_edited.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0096_edited.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
Does BCM sell lowers? Or are these limited distribution?
BravoCompanyUSA
11-10-08, 09:53
Does BCM sell lowers? Or are these limited distribution?
BCM has lowers scheduled for late 2009.
Those are actually BCUSA lowers (above), and they were just a small run for T&E, photos, etc. We do not have any for distribution.
Thanks very much for your interest!
Paul
I'd buy a BCM lower. Or two...
-B
BCM has lowers scheduled for late 2009.
Those are actually BCUSA lowers (above), and they were just a small run for T&E, photos, etc. We do not have any for distribution.
Thanks very much for your interest!
Paul
Great news Paul. Looking forward to it. I'll be picking up a few.
I wouldn't want a Bravo Company lower.
Now a complete Bravo Company Rifle... with Larue parts... I'd buy into that.
Wow that was quick - just got notified that Bravo had the middies back in stock and in less than 20 minutes they were GONE. Luckily I was able to get one on order - A big thank you to Bravo :D
As of now I think they still have some m4 carbine upper receivers left. But I'm sure those wont take long either.
No kidding! Luckily, I got my email in time to see they were available. I ordered a middy & 2 BCM bolts. I called a buddy about 30 mins later to tell him & they were gone when he tried to order. I'm in the wrong business. Right now anyway. LOL!
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0099_edited.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
Hey UVvis
In that last pic you posted, I assume the AR on top is in coyote furniture, is the bottom one in foliage green furniture? Looks like but not sure.
Marty
Marty,
Top gun is flat dark earth, bottom one is foliage green.
its threads like these that make my job so hard. I want an LMT then see a Noveske, then want that instead then see a BCM and want that.
Rinse
Repeat.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/BCM%20Stainless%20Mid-Lenght/DPP_0218.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0262.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0306.jpg
USMC03
You make it really difficult for me to wait for the BCM groups to come in.
But they do look beautiful.
BCM upper update.
Okay, finished my first M4 build (w/BCM upper) several weeks ago, and have put several hundred rounds through it.
BCM 16" middy
LMT semi auto BCG
LaRue 9" tactical guards
Stag Lower
Standard buffer in collapsible stock (I do have H Buffer but haven't tried it yet)
LPK (sorry can't remember brand, but not DPMS)
-all components mil-spec
Primary intended uses: Defensive, and range fun
Using FMJ 52 grain ammo (Winchester, and Lake ammo), i haven't had a single misfire or malfunction so far. No conditioning was done for "burning" in the barrel, nor has the bore been cleaned (beyond the initial cleaning after assembling). All parts lubed with Slip 2000 EWL, and using Magpul 30 round mags.
During assembly the only catches involved the roll pins for the bolt release and the trigger guard; ended up crumpling both of them. Purchased some Colt replacement pins and they went in without a hitch. Dissassembled and thoroughly cleaned it, looking for wear marks on charging handle, BCG, guide rails inside the upper, and hammer. Wear marks were starting to show, but they were nice and evenly distributed along surfaces, compared to seeing only a few wear marks at irregular points. Out of the case with no sight-in (MI BUIS), my daughter was able to hit ram siloutte at 200 yards 6 out of 10; better then my son was able to, which she still reminds him of.
Comparisons:
Qualified with department S&W M4's
Colt M16's
DPMS AR-15 (friend's unit)
Conclusion:
All the firearms mentioned worked as required, though i have had magazine hangups on the S&W which may have been due to damaged magazines. For me, the accuracy of my build is noticeably better then the S&W, and the DPMS, but at the same time my M4 fits me better with a better balance.
If i were to build another M4/AR15 I would have to go with the BCM upper again; it's been too good to me. The only alternative i would consider at this time would be a Noveske Barrel, but you still won't get the attention to detail that BCM gives their upper packages, unless maybe Grant puts something together (he did tempt me with a Noveske 16" with low profile gasblock).
parishioner
12-10-08, 22:39
The only alternative i would consider at this time would be a Noveske Barrel, but you still won't get the attention to detail that BCM gives their upper packages, unless maybe Grant puts something together (he did tempt me with a Noveske 16" with low profile gasblock).
Is this true? Do they really pay more attention to detail? Just wondering.
Is this true? Do they really pay more attention to detail? Just wondering.
each barrel used by BCM is HP and MP tested; versus "batch" testing by other companies. to my knowledge no other company tests each barrel individually (Rob_S may have different answer on this but i don't think so). I think BCM's BCGs also go through individual HP and MP testing. BCM's adherence to strict mil-spec requirements and component "inter-changeability" (yeah yeah, spelling may off on that one :o) put his gear in high demand by active troops. The biggest problem with BCM products is their scarcity due to Paul's high quality control; he has dumped more then one batch of barrels or uppers because they failed his requirements. The knowledge that items from BCM are reviewed so critically before they even enter the sales pipeline, makes it easier for others to accept them into platforms that they may risk their lives on. Now if i can just figure out how he keeps his prices this low, while maintaining such a high degree of quality control.......................
parishioner
12-11-08, 07:53
Now if i can just figure out how he keeps his prices this low, while maintaining such a high degree of quality control.......................
Well I guess that is why they are in such great demand. Thanks for the info.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/BCM%20Stainless%20Mid-Lenght/DPP_0236.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
Medicine Calf
12-15-08, 09:35
More pics please.
Here's mine...
http://www.azbattlerifles.com/images/FDEARC.jpg
I have built off of two BCM uppers.
They are just smooth. Really like them. 2.5 MOA @ 100 but for me (40 years old now with glasses and a back injury that causes a loss of feeling in my left hand) that is really good.
Mine fire without a hitch, no FTF or any malfunctions.
As others have said. BCM is a top notch supplier, they have fought the temptation to jack their prices through this significant up-tick in demand.
They make quality-have great customer service-and compared to others I think you get even more than you pay for considering the current market.
JMHO
By the way,
Nice looking set ups posted.
Mine.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/spenceinva/ATSWarbelt.jpg
I got my BCM Middy last month after getting Bravo's e-mail. Fortunately, I was at my desk when it came in and I was able to place my order immediately along with a BCM BCG.
I reconfigured my Bushmaster lower with Bravo's milspec RE kit with an H buffer and added the CRT and MOE grip. I'm still trying to decide about getting either an Omega rail or the new Troy drop-in, when the mid-length size becomes available.
Here it is, first with the LMT BUIS, and with a Troy BUIS and my ACOG TA-31F ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/ronssmith/Guns/20081121a003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/ronssmith/Guns/20081218a007.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/ronssmith/Guns/20081218a006.jpg
Mine was on the back porch when I got home today. Christmas came early.
You got a BCM upper today? When did you order it?
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0276.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
You got a BCM upper today? When did you order it?
I am scared I missed ordering the new shipment of uppers. I have been at the computer daily for the past week trying to make sure I can get 1.
You got a BCM upper today? When did you order it?
I ordered it on the 10th from G&R. They were on the site for a very short time period.
Ouch. I've been checking about every day and I'll bet that was a day I didn't check. :(
Ouch. I've been checking about every day and I'll bet that was a day I didn't check. :(
You on the email notification? It is looking like I will not get one this go around, will be away tuesday night to saturday night for x-mas and my luck thats when they become available :sad:
Good luck in your quest.
S**T!! I've been checking many times per day (on the BCM site)! Nice score though!
Got mine today from Grant at G&R. :D They were sold out minutes after I placed my order.
3CTactical
12-20-08, 12:38
Got mine from Grant yesterday, can't wait to shoot it and see how it compares to my Noveskes. I want to pick up another - hopefully they will be back in stock at BCM soon.:)
I never got an email notification either...:confused::(
I never got an email notification either...:confused::(
We only got a handful of uppers so not everyone is going to get an email.
C4
We only got a handful of uppers so not everyone is going to get an email.
C4
Understood. Thanks.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0433.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
Again Jeff, beautiful rifle.
Jeff,
How is that small ACOG working for you?
Jeff,
How is that small ACOG working for you?
I just recently received the Trijicon TA33-8 ACOG for T&E.
I haven't been able to get any rounds down range with it yet because I'm still on the mend from shoulder surgery. Hoping the Doc will release me to start shooting long guns when I see him again in mid-January. (See the AAR of Larry Vickers' September 2008 Colorado class for details in the Training Course Announcements & AAR's forum)
My "out of the box" impression has changed now that I've mounted the TA33 on a gun and done some side by side dry fire drills with both the TA11 and the TA33.
Dry fire drills may give you some insight as to an optic's strong points or expose weaknesses. Dry fire drills don't always replicate how something will perform when you are sending rounds down range, from unconventional positions, while being timed.
I'm liking what I see so far, but the jury is still out until I get some quality trigger time on the TA33.
S/F,
Jeff
Jeff, Who makes that stainless barrel? I'm thinking on one without a fsb/holes so I can add a gas block and rail.
Heck, I would like to get a BCM middy chromed w/o the fsb/holes for that matter.
Mark
Mark,
It's a Bravo Company Stainless Mid-Length barrel. They are not offered with the front sight housing (as shown in the pic on page 6). They come as a bare barrel or you can order it with one of the gas blocks that Bravo Company offers. Here are the specs on the barrel....
This BCM stripped barrel is machined from a 410 stainless steel. It features hand lapped button rifling with a 1/8 twist rate and M4 feedramps. As with all BCM barrels it is proofed (HPT) and magnetic particle inspected (MPI). To give the shooter the best balance of weight and accuracy this BCM Recce barrel has a mid weight profile and a mid length gas system.
(410 stainless is a harder and more corrosion resistant than the conventional 416 stainless found in most barrels.)
Features
M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension
Mid Length Gas System
1/8 Twist Rate
5.56 NATO Match Chambers
410 Stainless Steel
Mid Weight Contour Profile Barrels
Button Rifled
Hand Lapped Rifling
HPT (High Pressure Test) Barrels
MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Barrels
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Recce-Barrel-with-Mid-Length-Gas-p/bcm-recbrl%2016ss.htm
My Bravo Company Stainless mid-length and Noveske are identical.....the Bravo Company mid-length is less than 4 oz heavier than the Noveske N4 mid-length:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Group%20Gun%20Pics/DPP_0242.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
I like it! I will keep those in mind for a future build.
Anytime Mark!!! :cool:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/BCM%20Stainless%20Mid-Lenght/DPP_0399.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
What kind of accuracy is that puppy doing? I bet under moa?
Mark,
I received the stainless mid-length post shoulder surgery. I'm still on the mend, but the Orthopedic Surgeon hasn't cleared me hot to start shooting long guns yet. Hopefully that will happen mid-January when I go back to see him for my next follow up.
That being said I never shoot for groups with AR's. The following is what I wrote on another site when I was asked how the accuracy was of the BCM gun compared to another brand:
**********************************************************************
Guys always ask me about accuracy......In short, my answer is: With AR's, I NEVER measure group size. I know from years of shooting what my group size should look like at a given distance with a given optic (ie. I know my group with iron sights is much larger than my groups with a Leupold MR/T on 5x at that same distance.....but I have shot enough that I know approximatley what my group should look like considering the distance, type of optic, type of ammo, etc.).
For accuracy or group size to mean anything or for the evaluation to be "apples to apples" comparison you need to shoot the both mid-length barrels side by side on the same day one right after the other.
BOTH guns need to be
-in the exact same configuration (stocks, triggers, handguards / railed forends, etc), using the same optic (at least 10x),
-the same ammo from the same lot, a couple different ammo loadings (because different barrels like different bullets),
-the same targets,
-the same lighting conditions, etc, etc, etc.
All of the things listed above can have an effect on accuracy testing (ammo, temp, lighting conditions, rifle configuration, different optics, etc, etc, etc)
I always see guys on the internet saying my "Brand X" AR15 is so much more accurate than my "Brand Z" AR15. I doubt that 99% of these guys have done an "apples to apples" comparison between two different brands.
For *me* trying to do accuracy testing with anything less than a 10x optic is a waste of time and I would prefer to have something around 16x if possible.
In order to get nice little groups you need to ensure that you are on the exact aiming point everytime. And the only way I can do that is with a 10x (or more) optic.
*For me*, if I can hit the small steel IPSC type targets consistanly out to 425 yards with an ACOG or MR/T 1.5-5x or simular scope, the barrel is more than accurate enough *for me* and the type of shooting that I do.
The Steel IPSC targets I'm refering to are about 18" - 24" top to bottom and 10" - 12" at the shoulders. Basically it's a scaled down IPSC or IDPA target...you know the cardboard targets you shoot at IDPA or IPSC matches...also a lot of instructors use them for classes (cardbaord colored on one side and white on the other).
Here's something that makes me laugh about accuracy discussions on the internet:
For the last few years, I often use a 1/9" twist RRA 16" mid-length barrel (4140 steel / chromed lined) for my run and gun rifle matches...just a factory mid-length barrel that has been lightended almost to govt' profile under the handguards. The carbine has a LaRue 9.0 and 3.5x TA11 ACOG on it.
I have seen more than a couple guys arguing about accuracy on the internet, then I have seen those same guys come to the run and gun rifle matches (targets from contact distance out to 425 yards, smaller than normal targets) and can't hit the broad side of a barn. These individuals end up with a score of less than 10% and never come back to another match. I've seen it happen a couple times with my own eyes.
The last match I shot with Stag Arms carbine with the RRA mid-lenth 1/9" 4140 steel / chrome lined barrel (July's match, just before I had shoulder surgery), I came in 2nd place with a score of 80% and I was using 2004 vintage XM193 ammo. Pics of the match and the gun I use can be seen in this thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=2475 (the Stag Arms gun with the FDE furniture and RRA mid-length barrel in it's newest configuration with the Magpul UBR is on page 3 ...... older pics of the same gun from a couple years ago can be seen on page 1)
Pics of targets down range can be seen in the thread below. Keep in mind that the targets on this stage are at a distance of 175 to 425 yards, there are large and small IPSC steel targets, skinny steel popper type targets, the small LaRue target, etc. *Keep in mind when looking at the pics of the targets that the pics were taken with a zoom lense*. Each target (usally 7 - 9 different targets) have to be engaged from each firing position (usually 6 - 8 different positions)....and each shooting position requires something different (ie. sometimes shooting through a port on the ground, sometimes shooting from the right or left side of the barricade, sometimes shooting over the top, etc).....you can see in the pics what I'm refering to in reference to shooting position:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15738&highlight=TA11
I guess my point is, you can have the most accurate barrel in the world and it doesn't mean anything if the shooter is unable to use the barrel to it's full potential. And in that same breath, everyone on the internet will tell you that 1/9" 4140 steel barrels are junk and you can't hit the broad side of barn with them. Remember the old saying about "It's the singer, not the song"
To be honest, my RRA barrel that I've used in a bunch of different matches over the years (see pics in the links above) is probably more accurate than me.....especially when you consider I'm only using a 3.5x ACOG.
So in short, when guys ask me about accuracy of two different guns I don't like to answer unless I can give an "apples to apples" comparision and I NEVER go out and shoot for measured groups .........I guess my use for the AR platform is geared toward "practical accuracy", and I don't have a single AR that isn't able to hit the targets above at 425 yards with XM193 / Q3131A / Black Hills Blue Box 55 grain or simular ammo.
To anwer your question about accuracy between the Xxxxxx barrel and the Xxxxxx barrel ...... I don't think you, me, or a majority of shooters are going to be able to tell a difference in accuracy between the two barrels.
**********************************************************************
Take care and be safe Brother
Happy Holidays
S/F,
Jeff
That was long! True though. I haven't done any actual groups with an AR since I had a Colt set up SPR. Normally, I'm just ringing steel with them at distance. I suprised some with the 10.5 LMT, hitting the 12x12 at 400 with irons, 10 minutes of drop!
I would be so bored I would be shooting weak side!
Hope that goes good for you there.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! :D
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0316.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0099_edited.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/BCM%20Stainless%20Mid-Lenght/DPP_0048.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/BCM%20Stainless%20Mid-Lenght/DPP_0056.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
Maybe thats what I want to do with one of my spare lowers, a middy :)
So hard to get any parts right now though :(
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0030.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
16" Middy's in Stock RIGHT NOW at bravocompanyusa.com.
Better move fast if you want one.
spamsammich
03-10-09, 20:03
aaaand they're gone!
Wow!!!
Less than 45 minutes and they're gone.
Glad I got one.
Sorry to those who didn't.:(
I was among the lucky this time around. My first AR (or rifle of any kind!).
Only need the complete lower now.....
16" Middy's in Stock RIGHT NOW at bravocompanyusa.com.
Better move fast if you want one.
It looks like you have to be on the computer looking at email and refreshing it (if need be) to catch one of those puppies.
It looks like you have to be on the computer looking at email and refreshing it (if need be) to catch one of those puppies.
Whenever I'm on my computer (quite a lot being a student) I have my email open.
And for when I'm away from my computer I have my phone set to check my email every 5 or so minutes :cool:
I'm on the email notification list for either a 14.5" or 16" M4 BCM upper and a BCM complete bolt carrier group.
I will get one! :D
BCM mid-length upper
DD 12.0 Lite Rail
BCM BCG
CMT charging handle
Sun Devil lower
G&R LPK
VLTOR extension and EMOD stock
LMT H buffer
ACOG TA11D with LaRue mount
Troy front and rear BUIS
Surefire 6P LED Defender in LaRue mount
XTM rail panels
MIAD grip
VCAS sling
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9439/bcmmid001.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcmmid001.jpg)
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7451/bcmmid006.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcmmid006.jpg)
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5848/bcmmid005.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcmmid005.jpg)
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7524/bcmmid004.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcmmid004.jpg)
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5885/bcmmid003.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcmmid003.jpg)
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4092/bcmmid002.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcmmid002.jpg)
Haven't had a chance to get it on the range yet, but I'm sure it will shoot great.
Forrest
Next up on the wish list...
A couple BCM mid-lengths at a recent rifle match
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/DPP_0034.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/DPP_0018.jpg
From a recent EAG Tactical class:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Pat%20Rogers%202009/DPP_0001.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
We had a good showing of Bravo Comany uppers and complete guns at a recent EAG Tactical (Pat Rogers) 3 day carbine operator's class.
I talked with all of the guys that were running BCM uppers / guns and no one had a single malfunction that was cause by the carbine.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Pat%20Rogers%202009/DPP_0031-1.jpg
From top to bottom:
-Pat Rogers' BCM Stainless 11.5" (Pat used this as his demo gun for the entire class)
-UVvis' BCM 16" Mid-Length (UVvis lent this gun out to a friend for the class)
-UVis' BCM 11.5" (UVvis came in top shooter with his BCM 11.5")
-MustangLT's BCM 16" Mid-Length
-USMC03's BCM 16" Mid-Length
-Pat Rogers' BCM 16" Mid-Length (loaned out to a student for the class)
-english kanigit's BCM 16" Mid-Length
I put just over 1,300 rounds through the gun in the 3 day course. Not a single problem. Paul makes good sh*t. ;)
S/F,
Jeff
Sierrahotel83
05-18-09, 17:08
Jeff a little off subject but what jacket are you wearing in that pic
Jeff a little off subject but what jacket are you wearing in that pic
T.A.D. fleece hoodie
S/F,
Jeff
Sierrahotel83
05-19-09, 20:58
Thanks that is what I am looking for, for when it starts to get chilly again
Anytime Mark!!! :cool:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/BCM%20Stainless%20Mid-Lenght/DPP_0399.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
Who makes this bag? Thanks.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! :D
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/DPP_0316.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
Who makes this load bearing rig? Thanks.
A couple BCM mid-lengths at a recent rifle match
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/DPP_0018.jpg
Who makes this shoulder bag? Thanks.
Thanks for the great pics of your rifles.
Who makes this shoulder bag? Thanks.
Thanks for the great pics of your rifles.
Here you go! http://countycomm.com/index1.htm
Who makes this shoulder bag? Thanks.
Thanks for the great pics of your rifles.
This bag I'm wearing (Foliage one, guy with the orange hat) and I think USMC03's bag from the picture above are Sneaky Bags.
Bower's Tactical sells them here. (http://www.bowerstactical.com/store/sneaky-bags-m-163.html?zenid=da3fcceb362d956fff289702f94d6065)
My bag is a pre-production sample/demo bag that has the external webbing. These bags are made to be versatile and multifunction, so you don't really see a list of possible uses. Also, check USMC03's thread here:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=24714&highlight=sneaky
Thanks,
k_cheerangie
05-20-09, 14:01
Got my mid-length w/ 12" DD rail in yesterday. I have to say everything I expected was surpassed by the initial impressions of the upper. I love it.
The rail is firmly installed without a hint of movement, and my recently acquired BCM bcg fits wonderfully. I cannot wait to continue with this build as sold as I pay off the credit card.
JesseWin27
05-21-09, 22:41
Friend picked one up and got it today and it feels nice.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_2184.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
SeriousStudent
06-03-09, 20:24
Bravo Company lower, Bravo Company upper..... Pure goodness. :D
Thanks for whetting my appetite, Jeff - like it needed any help. ;)
I am on the pre-order list with Grant.
Jeff, i dont know if its the lighting but something looks weird about that larue rail.
It seems unusually dark. It doesnt have the normal blue/purple hint to the anodizing.
Is that a new design or something?
I think it's just his crappy camera. ;)
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Pat%20Rogers%202009/DPP_0019-1.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
I'll be putting a set of these on my next Bravo Company mid-length:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/e6a58beb.jpg
;)
S/F,
Jeff
How many Bravo Co. middies does someone need? I like all your pics, btw. It gives me a good idea on how to configure mine without having to buy so many like you. I would too, if I could. ;)
Just picked my BCM lower up today. I will be putting my BCM mid length on it. Cant wait to shoot it. :D
Bravo Company mid-length in a recent 3 day carbine operator's course:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Pat%20Rogers%202009/DPP_0002.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
Just put my BCM middie through a 2 day carbine course. Ran like a top. Not sure I can say the same for the operator though :rolleyes:
SWATcop556
06-29-09, 17:19
Hey Jeff. Nice to see you out shooting again after your shoulder surgery.
Just picked my BCM lower up today. I will be putting my BCM mid length on it. Cant wait to shoot it. :D
Shot my BCM middie on BCM lower for the first time this weekend. Put a larue rear buis on it and at 100 yards, with zero adjustment to the irons, it was dead on. (dead on for me at 100 yards with irons means all on a 100 yard target circle)
Anyway, I'm very pleased with mine. Just want to add an aimpoint t1/h1 on it at some point.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/3c546919.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Pat%20Rogers%202009/DPP_0026-2.jpg
Photo credit: DZ - photo used with permission
S/F,
Jeff
Bravo Company mid-length in a recent 3 day carbine operator's course:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Pat%20Rogers%202009/DPP_0002.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
Jeff,
How hard was it to install the Larue rail? What mount did you use with the aimpoint? Thanks.
SWATcop556
07-29-09, 00:53
Jeff,
How hard was it to install the Larue rail? What mount did you use with the aimpoint? Thanks.
Not Jeff, but I'll take a crack at it. The mount is the Larue tall mount for the Aimpoint T1, which is a vey slick setup.
I have installed three different Larue rails and as long as you have the proper tool and the general knowledge, they are very simple to install. The only part I have to really watch is just making sure that the rail lines up with the receiver.
I love the Larue rails!
Mr.Goodtimes
07-29-09, 08:21
swatcop, how do you line your larue rails up with your upper receiver?
I use the carry handle and bolt it to the upper and the rail.
If you're really anal, Brownells makes a tool for it.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=22389/Product/AR_15_M16_HANDGUARD_ALIGNMENT_TOOL
Mr.Goodtimes
07-29-09, 08:45
how were you able to tighten it down though with that carry handle bridging between the two?
BCM SS410 mid-lenght being put through the paces at a recent run and gun rifle match:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/DPP_0044copy.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
urbankaos04
08-16-09, 20:33
Have you done a write up on the SS BCM upper?
Have you done a write up on the SS BCM upper?
Negative, Brother. Never did a review of the BCM 410SS. :cool:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/DPP_0024copy.jpg
S/F,
Jeff
urbankaos04
08-18-09, 01:24
Hmm, maybe I should just start by looking in here first...duh. ;)
Hmm, maybe I should just start by looking in here first...:D
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/BCM%20Stainless%20Mid-Lenght/IMG_272502_copy.jpg
I use the carry handle and bolt it to the upper and the rail.
If you're really anal, Brownells makes a tool for it.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=22389/Product/AR_15_M16_HANDGUARD_ALIGNMENT_TOOL
Is there any validity to those who say you need a billet upper to have the proper alignment of the rail to the barrel ?
Is there any validity to those who say you need a billet upper to have the proper alignment of the rail to the barrel ?
Not in my experience.
spamsammich
08-25-09, 11:50
An upper doesn't have to be billet to be machined true.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/DPP_0022copy.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/03%20Design%20Group-BCM/DPP_0037copy.jpg
Jeff,
I'm having trouble deciding which optic I should go with on my 16" middy from BCM. I have the UBR for a stock, Troy MRF-DI for the rails. I have a 11.5" LMT for short range/CQB type use/shooting. I don't want this to be a tack driver, but do want to be able to hit the paper 100-200yds out.
Jeff,
I'm having trouble deciding which optic I should go with on my 16" middy from BCM. I have the UBR for a stock, Troy MRF-DI for the rails. I have a 11.5" LMT for short range/CQB type use/shooting. I don't want this to be a tack driver, but do want to be able to hit the paper 100-200yds out.
It will depend on the size of your target at 100 - 200 yards and what kind of accuracy you are trying to achieve.
See the steel gong in the background (black steel target with a white X painted on it). That steel gong is at the 425 yard line. Some days it may take me 2 - 3 rounds to get on target, with an Aimpoint (no magnifier, shooting from the prone position - only support is using the magazine as a monopod), but once I get on target, I have no issues hitting the 425 yard gong with an unmagnified Aimpoint:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/IMG_2054_1.jpg
If you look closely you can see the black and white gong mentioned above in this pic:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Monthly%20Rifle%20Matches/DPP_0033-1.jpg
If all of your shooting is going to be done at 100+ yards I would recommend looking at something along the lines of an ACOG TA11 or Leupold MR/T 1.5-5x scope for general purpose shooting.
Hope this helps
It very much does. Not going to do extended shots at that range, so will just stick with the aimpoint.
Cincinnatus
09-04-09, 13:12
Getting my BCM middy today... if FedEx delivers on time. Hoorah!! Its the standard 16" barrel. I have a Troy MRF-M 9" rail coming from Grant.
After looking at these pics, I'm leaning towards putting the Magpul XTM rail panels on it in FDE, a Vltor basic modstock, and either an Ergo or TD grip.
(By the way--any opinions on the Tapco SAW pistol grip?)
Already have a Larue FDE sling.:D
Cincinnatus
09-04-09, 13:13
Oh, and I'm putting it on an LMT lower.
Anyone have an FDE Ergo grip they'd like to swap for a black one? I have a black one on the LMT lower but want to build this rifle in FDE furniture.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/03%20Design%20Group-BCM/DPP_0013copy.jpg
Cincinnatus
09-09-09, 10:41
I got my Middy in and put it on an LMT lower. There is a little wiggle, but the fit with the LMT Lower is very close. I tried the same upper on a Charles Daly lower and there was way more play between the two.
Here are some pics of the BCM Middy assembled. Right now I have RRA handguards on it until I get my Troy Free-float rail in from Grant.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/winfield813/DSCF7045.jpg
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/winfield813/DSCF7046.jpg
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/winfield813/DSCF7047.jpg
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/winfield813/DSCF7048.jpg
Cincinnatus
10-05-09, 23:07
Here she is now, wearing a Troy MRF-9 bikini. :D
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/winfield813/DSCF7253.jpg
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/winfield813/DSCF7256.jpg
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/winfield813/DSCF7258.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/03%20Design%20Group-BCM/DPP_0005copy.jpg
Glad I found this thread. I have a Lower, parts kit and Magpul stock sitting in the closet waiting for an uppper. I wanted a midlength build and now I am pretty sure I will get a BCM upper, just have to save some money as it is a bit more than I thought and I hope they are availble when I get the money saved up.
At a recently LMS Defense carbine course 5 out of 8 shooters were running BCM uppers or complete guns (to include a 11.5" BFH and a 16" BFH). No malfunctions in any of the BCM guns (with the exception of a Wolf casing getting stuck inside the chamber on the 2nd to the last drill at the end of training day 2. I thought we were going to break the Magpul CTR and Gunfighter charging handle trying to get the stuck case out of the gun, but we were finally able to free the spent casing with no damage to either the stock or charging handle.
All 5 guns has Gunfighter charging handles in them. I'm really impressed with the new Gunfighter charging handle, I will be switching all of my charging handles over to the Gunfighter charging handle as funds allow:
BCM 16" mid length with BFH barrel:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0002copy-1.jpg
DZhitshard's 11.5" BFH:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0064copy.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0047copy.jpg
DZ's buddy running my 16" mid-length:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0038copy.jpg
Tactical450 running a 14.5" carbine:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0020copy-1.jpg
Another student running Chappy's BCM 16" mid-length:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0001copy-1.jpg
Group photo:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0005copy.jpg
My crappy picture. Waitingon a ARMS 40L-P rear sight to arrive.
http://images.dr3vil.com//files3/113/LMT1.JPG
Cincinnatus
10-27-09, 11:01
At a recently LMS Defense carbine course 5 out of 8 shooters were running BCM uppers or complete guns (to include a 11.5" BFH and a 16" BFH). No malfunctions in any of the BCM guns (with the exception of a Wolf casing getting stuck inside the chamber on the 2nd to the last drill at the end of training day 2. I thought we were going to break the Magpul CTR and Gunfighter charging handle trying to get the stuck case out of the gun, but we were finally able to free the spent casing with no damage to either the stock or charging handle.
All 5 guns has Gunfighter charging handles in them. I'm really impressed with the new Gunfighter charging handle, I will be switching all of my charging handles over to the Gunfighter charging handle as funds allow:
BCM 16" mid length with BFH barrel:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0002copy-1.jpg
Jeff, what belt are you wearing in this pic? Is it an Eagle? :cool:
Sierrahotel83
10-27-09, 12:09
I believe in his AAR of that class he stated it is a BFG SOC-C belt...
Jeff, what belt are you wearing in this pic? Is it an Eagle? :cool:
Sorry I missed this the first time. Correct, it's a Blue Force Gear SOC-C padded belt. A review can be seen here:
http://03designgroup.com/photo/blue-force-gear-soc-c-modular-belt-system/icon-blue-force-gear-soc-c.jpg
03designgroup | Blue Force Gear SOC-C Modular Belt System (updated with armor package) http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.03designgroup.com/reviews/blue-force-gear-soc-c-modular-belt-system)
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/03%20Design%20Group-BCM/IMG_1930002_copy.jpg
ForTehNguyen
12-15-09, 14:47
I love my middys
I find it slightly odd to see Jeff shooting a mid length without a triangular FSB, I'm not sure why.
I find it slightly odd to see Jeff shooting a mid length without a triangular FSB, I'm not sure why.
Its a much cleaner look.
Lovin' Jeff's setups. So simple and clean, the whole lot of them.
Thanks Gents.
For Musafa ;)
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_1873002_copy.jpg
:)
They are great looking carbines.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Bravo%20Company%20Mid-Length/IMG_1972002_copy.jpg
ForTehNguyen
12-23-09, 08:58
BCM Midlength + DD 12.0 Lite
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/23e9a688.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/2f136b35.jpg
BCM Carbines from a course in April (you may recognize one of these pics in the new BCM add):
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Magpul%20Dynamics%20Carbine%20April%202010/IMG_2607001_copy.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Magpul%20Dynamics%20Carbine%20April%202010/IMG_2608001_copy.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Magpul%20Dynamics%20Carbine%20April%202010/IMG_2609001_copy.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Magpul%20Dynamics%20Carbine%20April%202010/IMG_2611001_copy.jpg
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