View Full Version : Siege of Jadotville
A heads up on a new Netflix film up for stream to take a break from all the political crap.. Very well done.
https://www.netflix.com/title/80041653
Watched it two nights ago. It is a decent film with a good story line. I had never heard of this story before and learned a little from it.
Watched it two nights ago. It is a decent film with a good story line. I had never heard of this story before and learned a little from it.
Yes, me too. They kept it quiet til 2000 something from 61. Politicians are the same everywhere. Those guys took crap coming home too.
I just watched it. Very interesting. It proves that the UN's uselessness is nothing new. The organization was tits on a bull since it's inception.
Hopefully it comes out on googlevplay like Ash vs Evil Dead did(want to see s2 so bad)
I hope it is like a retro BHD/Wild Geese with people getting FN FAL'd from here to hell
people getting FN FAL'd from here to hell
Oh yeah, there is that.
......I need to see this. I just saw the trailer. Bren guns and Vickers porn. Holee Hell.
You won't be disappointed, it's one of the best if not the best Netflix has done.
MountainRaven
10-11-16, 21:40
FALs, Swedish-Ks, BHPs, P38s, SMLEs, Kar98ks, BRENs, Vickers guns, MAGs, and 60s Range Rovers.
And the Irish suppressing the locals (and mercs) through precision fires, rather than volume of fire (due to the limited quantity of ammunition available).
FALs, Swedish-Ks, BHPs, P38s, SMLEs, Kar98ks, BRENs, Vickers guns, MAGs, and 60s Range Rovers.
And the Irish suppressing the locals (and mercs) through precision fires, rather than volume of fire (due to the limited quantity of ammunition available).
Just watched it and it's a good flick. All the above are great to see in action. I'm glad to see 60/70's Africa getting some screen time again.
Just started it... They had me at the ex-legionnaires in lizard/splinter camo.
Stopped it to watch it with my FIl, who appreciates a good mil movie.
Ready.Fire.Aim
10-12-16, 14:20
Great movie! Apparently had a great historical weapons advisor.
One question, why did the Irish marksman transition from the scoped Enfield #4 to the iron sited Bren gun for a long range shot?
I wondered the same thing, especially since they are the same caliber.
I watched this last night. Really enjoyed it, those Irish dudes we certified bad a$$es. Also among other things the movie did a GREAT job pointing out how much the UN sucks. Not sure if they meant to or not, but they did a great job doing it.
I'd really like to have this film on disc.
I took the Netflix plunge and heavenly GOD, I never thought I'd see this kind of movie made again.
It really was like Wild Geese and Black Hawk Down with guys getting FN FAL'd and Bren gunned to shit.
.303 head mist like a mofo.
My only "complaint" is that everyone sounded like Liam Neeson.
Great movie! Apparently had a great historical weapons advisor.
One question, why did the Irish marksman transition from the scoped Enfield #4 to the iron sited Bren gun for a long range shot?
My theory is longer barrel. He obviously knew what he was doing.
Hathcock did something similar in Vietnam.
We're applying 21st century knowledge and hindsight to a 1961 op.
I took the Netflix plunge and heavenly GOD, I never thought I'd see this kind of movie made again.
It really was like Wild Geese and Black Hawk Down with guys getting FN FAL'd and Bren gunned to shit.
.303 head mist like a mofo.
My only "complaint" is that everyone sounded like Liam Neeson.
It's funny because I also got excited by the Black Hawk Down ness of the movie. Spend 20 minutes building things up then dedicate the next 100 minutes to pure bada$$ery. But I didn't mind the Liam Neeson accents, they were Irish after all
It's funny because I also got excited by the Black Hawk Down ness of the movie. Spend 20 minutes building things up then dedicate the next 100 minutes to pure bada$$ery. But I didn't mind the Liam Neeson accents, they were Irish after all
Indeed. I put "complaint" in quotes because it literally sounded like Liam Neeson dubbed the voice for every single Irish soldier.
I couldn't tell them apart. Except by nickname like "Sniper", "Harry Potter", "Ginger", "White boy", and "Pornstache"
I couldn't tell them apart. Except by nickname like "Sniper", "Harry Potter", "Ginger", "White boy", and "Pornstache"
Solid nicknames, I immediately knew who you were talking about. Pornstache wins most creative kill-zone with his "brass casings" idea ..
Solid nicknames, I immediately knew who you were talking about. Pornstache wins most creative kill-zone with his "brass casings" idea ..
Yes and amazing too, if historically accurate there were no casualties. Going to run this again..
Hell yeah brass casings. High velocity Metal is high velocity metal.
I thought Harry Potter was gonna be a bitch but he was making things happen with that Swedish K
eightmillimeter
10-12-16, 20:04
Had a very "Zulu" feeling to it. Well done. Great flick.
Best quote anyone?
My vote is for "We used every bullet twice, now what?"
Had a very "Zulu" feeling to it. Well done. Great flick.
Best quote anyone?
My vote is for "We used every bullet twice, now what?"
"I have yet to know the love of a good Irish woman"
The nicknames on page 2 made me start this movie. I'll see you again in 108 minutes.
Sounds like a great one, alas I don't have streaming. Hopefully it will be popular enough to warrant a DVD release.
MountainRaven
10-12-16, 23:58
Yes and amazing too, if historically accurate there were no casualties. Going to run this again..
From what I gather, this is true.
A few WIA, no KIA, no MIA.
If only they'd had a few tens of thousands more rounds (and some whisky)....
One thing I noticed is that unit cohesion was maintained throughout. Even as they were falling back, their positions were never overrun.
Had a very "Zulu" feeling to it. Well done. Great flick.
Best quote anyone?
My vote is for "We used every bullet twice, now what?"
"I'm goin' ta start chargin' ya for every f___in' bullet that misses!"
Even though the French merc was the "bad guy", at the end he was just doing his job.
I'd like to know who was behind the advising for this film and procurement.
Those FALs and Enfields looked brand new, same as the Brens. Everybody who had pistols was Condition 3. Even though that jet was CG, it didn't look like it. This was obviously a low budget film but it looked like We Were Soldiers.
At first I didn't like We Were Soldiers be ause I was in an anti-Mel Gibson phase and everything looked so "fake: Like a comic book. Artificial. It didn't seem photorealistic.
Then I talked to a guy of that era who said, NOPE. WWS was spot on. Everybody really did look that crisp with brand new jungles that were so new the green almost glowed and razor creases and starch. It was a different Army than the pot smoking 'Who Gives a F?" of the late 60s early 70s.
Guys really were that strack. Their mentality was this was like Burma or Korea and a conventional campaign.
So if they can do something this good and ostensibly accurate, why not revisit some of the campaigns of other unsung heroes?
Like Acid Gambit or Panama in general. Enough time has gone by. Or Vietnam from the ROK point of view.
Or Desert One. One guy said that aside from the bullshit parts, Desert One really was like the movie Delta Force. Guys who looked like college kids and deadbeats or surfer stoners kitted up in black gear and had some pretty far out gear for the day. So close to success and so much training, but it went TU.
I'd rather watch something like that than "Lone Navy SEAL kills socially acceptable targets. America F Yeah" with CGI everywhere.
Steyr, treat yourself to Netflix. I did the free trial just for this movie but may keep it. It is 10 bucks a month. Plus it has oodles of old shows.
Also check out Stranger Things. I'm 1/3 through and it feels like it was made in the 80s. Everything seems so familiar. The slang, the sensibilities. It's like Goonies meets Twin Peaks meets the creepy part of ET where the astronauts do a no-knock.
Man.....you know, I lose faith here and there but if you told me 20 years ago I could watch a buncha movies and read a buncha books and post on a dedicated gun website all with a tablet on my chest; I would've called you crazy.
I remember getting my own black and white for Nintendo and getting to use a Commodore and thought it was so high speed.
I wonder what it'll be like in 20 more years.
Hell back on topic, the weapons they used were so primitive at Jadotville. Well a mishmash, the frogs had dudes with FN MAGs but the officers/NCOs either had Hi Powers or Walthers.
Now we have 240s, Glocks, ARs of any brand, 308 ARs that are state of the art.
What a time to be alive
Overall I enjoyed the movie, but it made me start delving into the history of whole scenario. That made me confused. While the bravery of the Irish U.N. force is absolutely unquestionable, it appears, to me at least, that the U.N. was on the wrong side of this.
From what I've read the Belgian-backed state of Katanga began as an opposition to Lumumba's lean toward allying an independent Congo with the Soviet Union. After Lumumba's death (which the U.S. may have been involved in), the U.S. flopped and turned on Katanga. It was the Irish that often state "That small nations might be free" as part of the Foggy, Foggy Dew, but their actions as part of the U.N. in this example almost appear in antithesis of this sentiment.
My only accuracy complaint: they had the FFL wearing their berets like US (flash over left eye) when the 2REP wear the flash almost at the right temple. Like these guys:
http://cdn-parismatch.ladmedia.fr/var/news/storage/images/paris-match/actu/international/mali-la-legion-saute-sur-tombouctou-161860/1698772-1-fre-FR/Mali.-La-Legion-saute-sur-Tombouctou.jpg
Likewise, most 2REP berets seem to be green rather than the maroon in the film. Some FFL may wear red, but all the real photos of 2REP legionnaires wore green.
Best line: the Irish Commander's retort in the bar to Falques
Steyr, treat yourself to Netflix. I did the free trial just for this movie but may keep it. It is 10 bucks a month. Plus it has oodles of old shows.
I have Netflix, but I'm still with the DVD by mail plan. I don't have anything that will allow me to stream Netflix on my TV and I just can't watch a movie on my computer. When streaming can be delivered directly to my TV and recorded to the DVR just like the other channels, then I'll pick up the option.
I once had a Roku and streamed a movie from Amazon and it just pissed me off to no end every time it froze, paused and buffered. Trying to scroll backwards or forwards was also aggravating. That was my first and last streaming experience. The Roku is probably still in the neighbors back yard someplace.
Overall I enjoyed the movie, but it made me start delving into the history of whole scenario. That made me confused. While the bravery of the Irish U.N. force is absolutely unquestionable, it appears, to me at least, that the U.N. was on the wrong side of this.
From what I've read the Belgian-backed state of Katanga began as an opposition to Lumumba's lean toward allying an independent Congo with the Soviet Union. After Lumumba's death (which the U.S. may have been involved in), the U.S. flopped and turned on Katanga. It was the Irish that often state "That small nations might be free" as part of the Foggy, Foggy Dew, but their actions as part of the U.N. in this example almost appear in antithesis of this sentiment.
The UN screwing the pooch and sending in somebody else to implement their stupid idea is nothing new.
Our entire conflict in Mogadishu against Mohammed Aidid was a result of Boutros Boutros-Ghali making the decision that Siad Barre was they guy we should be working with.
You guys really should invest in s hacked fire stick. Free streaming everything damn near.
You guys really should invest in s hacked fire stick. Free streaming everything damn near.
Tell me more, tell me more...
Steyr, if it was buffering that speaks more to your internet connection or wireless than anything else.
Roku 3, decent internet, we stream HD 1k with no problems.
HD capable HDMI, Ethernet, quite a bit of graphics horsepower
30 cal slut
10-16-16, 06:48
great movie.
my heart was with those irish soldiers. watching them fight ffl mercs was weird. no "savagery" depicted on either side. both sides just doing their jobs.
movie played on my unabiding hatred for politicians who think the world's problems can be fixed by a white paper.
those irish soldiers were hung out to dry. i can't blame them for surrendering. there wasn't much point in going on, nothing in it for ireland, and miraculously all of them came home.
One other nit-pick: I have to believe combat experienced FFL would do more than a frontal assault combined with landrover mounted MG's driving back and forth.
Don't know what they'd do, just probably not what they showed
Even if they did a frontal assault they would not walk up as standing targets facing dug in troops
RetroRevolver77
10-16-16, 09:06
One other nit-pick: I have to believe combat experienced FFL would do more than a frontal assault combined with landrover mounted MG's driving back and forth.
Don't know what they'd do, just probably not what they showed
Even if they did a frontal assault they would not walk up as standing targets facing dug in troops
You are talking about tactics. I think the French figured they could use the Afrikans in large numbers to overwhelm the Irish. I don't think they were planning for some long drawn out fight and figured it would be over very quickly given their superior numbers. They pulled the same tactics in Vietnam with South Vietnamese troops in large numbers and lost badly. Seems they use tactics when it's their military on the line but when the French serve as advisors- they throw 3rd world troops into the meat grinder.
MountainRaven
10-16-16, 14:13
Random thoughts:
1- Given the terrain, I'm not sure there was much choice in the tactics used (except maybe to attempt a night attack - I'm not sure how that would work out with the quality of the locals). I'd guess that if they had armor, they would have basically just driven right up to the edge of the village and then let the infantry loose inside the village.
2- Given the bulk of the forces are local militia (who probably have all the problems generally associated with sub-Saharan African forces on top of being a bunch of untrained or poorly-trained irregulars), there probably aren't very many tactics that the ex-Legionaires leading them could expect to use with any sort of success.
3- The ex-Legionaires seemed to have expected other tactics and weapons to assist in their attack: The initial attack was clearly intended to catch the Irish by surprise while they were in Mass. That failed. Then the Katangese attacked with mortars. That failed. Then the Katangese attacked with the Fouga Magister and that didn't succeed as well as they hoped. (You have an enemy force out-numbered and surrounded. You're dropping mortars on them and have an aircraft providing CAS. Wouldn't you expect to have some level of success?)
4- I imagine that given the Katangese were expecting to be supported by the Western mining corporations operating in the area that the mining corporations and the Katangese decided it would be a Bad Idea to slaughter 150-some surrendering Irishmen. Instead, they used them as hostages for their negotiations with the UN (which is probably a better idea all around - especially since the UK and French didn't seem to be about to send in the SAS or a Foreign Parachute Battalion to rescue them and I don't think the IDF possessed a similarly capable force).
Still, for all that, it seems to me that the Irish would have out-lasted the Katangese if the UN had been able to resupply their ammunition and water (and maybe food).
Just watched it. It needs to be a DVD.
This is also worth seeing if you haven't gotten to it: https://www.amazon.com/Shake-Hands-Devil-Roy-Dupuis/dp/B0047UJBOU/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1476738259&sr=1-1&keywords=shake+hands+with+the+devil+dvd
Fantastic FAL porn. And yes, those were metric Belgian pattern FALs, not L1A1s. And they should have been new since the Irish had just adopted the FAL in 1961. Of course, the Congolese/Katengans would also have been equipped with FALs. The mix of weapons in the movie was excellent, even caught sight of a MAT-49 in the hands of one of the mercs.
It was hard to dislike either side, Katanga being the more free-market government while the Congolese flirted with the Soviets and the Irish in Jadotville nothing more than pawns. The entire episode is but one example of the mess that was post-colonial Africa.
Movie made me want to buy one of these gustav launchers even more...
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/574129893
Movie made me want to buy one of these gustav launchers even more...
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/574129893
I want an ert one though......
Say what you will but Swedish Ks and Carl Gustavs are badass.
I had a chance years ago at a Swedish K for 4 large. Had I not been so young, dumb, and naive; I would've moved some money around and filled out some forms. Not a 76. Not that one copy of a 76. A no foolin' Swedish K.
Same with the $2500 HK94 that had gone on resale when California(?) unloaded a bunch.
Stupid, stupid, stupid me.
I want an ert one though......
Say what you will but Swedish Ks and Carl Gustavs are badass.
I had a chance years ago at a Swedish K for 4 large. Had I not been so young, dumb, and naive; I would've moved some money around and filled out some forms. Not a 76. Not that one copy of a 76. A no foolin' Swedish K.
Same with the $2500 HK94 that had gone on resale when California(?) unloaded a bunch.
Stupid, stupid, stupid me.
A Swedish K (M45) is a major missing link in my collection. Had a chance at a presample for $4,000 about 10 years ago but went with a presample Uzi for $3500 instead. I feel I made the correct decision but I still desperately need a Swedish K.
Transferables exist but generally cost twice as much and then some or they are US receiver "tube guns" that were registered before the 86 ban.
I don't know why I love Gustav stuff so much, in truth they look sorta clunky even compared to the S&W 76, but those odd looking wood handle pistol grips just work for me. Eventually I hope to have 5 landmark SMGs.
1. MP5
2. Uzi
3. Swedish K
4. Ingram M-10
5. MP40 or MP38
I have the first two, three to go. Also wouldn't mind having a Walther MPL and a Beretta M12.
I was lucky enough to snag a couple of those Cali DOJ guns at $1,800 and SBR'd both of them. Ending up flipping both of them for $5k each. Really wish I wasn't tight for money at the time, I wanted to keep one of them really bad.
I have had a fascination with the Swede K from Vietnam War stories since a youth. I actually went to the library to look up what it looked like. I was told it was a hell of a pointman weapon until CAR-15s got more prolific. Lighter than Thompsons and Grease guns, not prone to breakage like Thompson(what I was told) and very controllable on auto. I then learned the 76 came about because Sweden embargoed arms to the US out of protest.
I have shot a popo SW76 and it really was like...a squirt gun how controllable it was. Unlike anything, even an MP5. There was a time before UZIs and MP5s and Colts (both SMG and Thompson).
I shot a Beretta M12 at bullseye and it was kinda meh.
I know now that Swedish Ks shall never be that cheap again and unlike UZIs and MP5s, it was kinda esoteric. Outside of Vietnam War or anyone who invested in the SW76; if you said "Swedish K" you got an odd look.
I have no knowledge of the Walther other than it exists and if I ever get up in money again, I would love an M10 with double stage.
Though one day if possible that new MP5K deal.
SMG talk is germane because the proper carbines hadn't yet been made. You had bolt actions, battle rifles, belt feds, but a lot of shoot and scooting was a niche filled by SMGs because not many folks had armor and a burst of 9mm or 45 was better than trying to doop doop with a non comped/braked 308.
It's weird. You look back on these battles with a 21st century mentality and it seems almost primitive.
But I want a Barrett one day . I wanted one ever since I saw Robocop (would still love to know how they made that scope)
I have had a fascination with the Swede K from Vietnam War stories since a youth. I actually went to the library to look up what it looked like. I was told it was a hell of a pointman weapon until CAR-15s got more prolific. Lighter than Thompsons and Grease guns, not prone to breakage like Thompson(what I was told) and very controllable on auto. I then learned the 76 came about because Sweden embargoed arms to the US out of protest.
I have shot a popo SW76 and it really was like...a squirt gun how controllable it was. Unlike anything, even an MP5. There was a time before UZIs and MP5s and Colts (both SMG and Thompson).
I shot a Beretta M12 at bullseye and it was kinda meh.
I know now that Swedish Ks shall never be that cheap again and unlike UZIs and MP5s, it was kinda esoteric. Outside of Vietnam War or anyone who invested in the SW76; if you said "Swedish K" you got an odd look.
I have no knowledge of the Walther other than it exists and if I ever get up in money again, I would love an M10 with double stage.
Though one day if possible that new MP5K deal.
SMG talk is germane because the proper carbines hadn't yet been made. You had bolt actions, battle rifles, belt feds, but a lot of shoot and scooting was a niche filled by SMGs because not many folks had armor and a burst of 9mm or 45 was better than trying to doop doop with a non comped/braked 308.
It's weird. You look back on these battles with a 21st century mentality and it seems almost primitive.
But I want a Barrett one day . I wanted one ever since I saw Robocop (would still love to know how they made that scope)
Completely with you on the Swede K. But I had to put the two more "practical" SMGs in the collection first. One of the first machine guns I ever shot was a K when I was something like 12. I think the first was actually a Thompson because it was the only machine gun I knew but it was heavy to manage by myself. When they put a K in my hands I was like "holy crap" this is easy. My father used to run around with a bunch of the NFA crowd as it existed in the 1970s.
About the same time I was playing army with realistic looking 1:1 non guns from Replica Models (later Collectors Armory) and I had a 1911, but in the catalog was a Swedish K that I used look at that every day and want one.
I want an ert one though......
Say what you will but Swedish Ks and Carl Gustavs are badass.
Id like a functional one too, but I imagine the price would be same or more than a good RPG-7 or mortar setup. Is there a reuseable 84mm trainer round or submunition for gustavs?
Didn't want to start a new thread
I'm watching this movie now and there is a scene where the sniper is asked to take out the man in the white suit far out in the distance. The sniper has an Enfield No4 sniper rifle and a BREN machine gun. He says he can but with the BREN. He proceeds to load one round, aim, take the shot and kill the man.
My question is why the Bren and not a scoped sniper rifle. Both use the same 303 round. Is the Enfield barrel that much shorter that the bullet may not reach? Is the BREN really that much more accurate in single shot or is it just dramatic effect
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
MountainRaven
02-09-17, 20:28
Didn't want to start a new thread
I'm watching this movie now and there is a scene where the sniper is asked to take out the man in the white suit far out in the distance. The sniper has an Enfield No4 sniper rifle and a BREN machine gun. He says he can but with the BREN. He proceeds to load one round, aim, take the shot and kill the man.
My question is why the Bren and not a scoped sniper rifle. Both use the same 303 round. Is the Enfield barrel that much shorter that the bullet may not reach? Is the BREN really that much more accurate in single shot or is it just dramatic effect
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
You're not the first one to bring it up.
My guess is that the sights on the BREN elevate out to the range of the target and the scope didn't offer holdovers for that range.
And it looked way cooler on film.
You're not the first one to bring it up.
My guess is that the sights on the BREN elevate out to the range of the target and the scope didn't offer holdovers for that range.
Bren also might have a heavier barrel with less crap bearing on it.
Why remove the magazine? I didn't realize they're still in production in India.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bren_light_machine_gun
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.