View Full Version : A Great Article about the State of Public Education and the Agenda within.
Averageman
10-15-16, 09:24
Want to know how "We got Here?" This is a great, but long read and explains how the dominance of Socialist Progressives have managed of Public School System to their own benefit.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/10/public_education_progressivisms_unbeatable_advantage.html
And what is compulsory or "universal" schooling, in a nutshell? It is the legally enforced diluting of parental authority over the raising of children, with intellectual and moral lessons, goals, and methods regulated by the government. It is usually undertaken in government buildings away from the family home, and under the supervision of various levels of government agents trained in accordance with government standards to represent and administer government policy regarding the proper rank-ordering of society, the attitudes and skills deemed by the government to be most socially useful, and the pre-emptive extinguishing or subduing of beliefs, attitudes, and behavior judged to be undesirable to the government for any reason. It weakens the natural attachments to family and familial associations in favor of cultivating alternative attachments to government officers, and to the artificial, government-designed social order of the school. Broadly, it encourages feelings of submissiveness to, and dependence upon, the opinions and judgments of an abstract collective, thus effectively discouraging independent thought, thwarting the development of self-reliance, and in general ensuring that no one ever actualizes his full intellectual and practical potential.
At this point, no doubt, progressive readers are rising to object that the preceding description completely misrepresents the purpose and value of public education, while many conservatives, I imagine, may be ready to accuse me of weakening my case with hyperbole. To those critics, or to those among them prepared to engage honestly with this subject matter, I issue a friendly challenge: Go back and reread the offending paragraph, this time without the presuppositions we have all had drilled into us about the supposed necessity of public schools. Find in that paragraph one sentence, one phrase, one adjective that may properly be said to exaggerate anything, or indeed to say anything at all apart from a simple matter-of-fact description of public school.
Lots of History, but it has some very brutal truths to it.
A Good Read.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-15-16, 10:30
Just because you are right, or can't be proven to be wrong, doesn't mean that you have a persuasive argument. The problem with your portrayal of the issue is that you make it seem like every kindergarten teacher has some nefarious plan to Stalinize your kid. When most schools struggle to teach kids the basics, making public schools into re-education, let alone education camps makes people roll their eyes. Is your point two about fluoride?
Tell stories about what this push means and show the victims. Progressives have horrible data on their side, but because they are good at telling stories and picking victims- all that don't require the public to take any or very much action to fix (outlawing guns for Progressives is a non-impact event), they are winning in the public debate.
Eurodriver
10-15-16, 11:01
I came in here to post exactly what FromMyColdDeadHands did.
Kindergarten teachers, second grade teachers, and even younger college profs are not intentionally or even unintentionally creating zombies. I know this because I know many of them quite well.
Quite well indeed.
This tracks with a book I plowed through about ten years ago: https://www.amazon.com/Underground-History-American-Education-Investigation-ebook/dp/B00FRJRNHM/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1476549841&sr=1-6&keywords=john+taylor+gatto
For that matter, John Stuart Mill, in his "On Liberty", considered state-run schools to be a threat to liberty--in 1859. He had no problem with the government requiring education for children--but he did object to the "government" specifying the content of that education. As to whether governments per se ought to be involved in running those schools--the same argument could be made for governmentally run restaurants ("feeding stations").
Years ago the United Negro College Fund or some such ran ads saying "A mind is a terrible thing to waste". Not only were they right on that--but if you don't get the mind squared away (John Boyd's "orientation"--the second "O" in "OODA loop") then you may be wasting an entire life as well.
Just by sheer chance there have to be some exemplary teachers in the system. Blind hog, acorns. But compulsory education in state-run schools doesn't seem to have produced much except for a bloated jobs program for teachers and the dumbed-down, compliant masses that the Democratic party cherishes. I don't much believe in conspiracies, but I do take note of long-term consequences.
Speaking strictly for myself, I thought school sucked big time. To the extent that I have an actual education at all, it came from doubting everything and hanging out in used bookstores.
We can do better.
RetroRevolver77
10-15-16, 12:41
Actually the threat is far greater than people realize and far more sinister. First you need to break down the barriers between people. Have people believe that everyone is completely equal in intelligence and capability of what they can offer the world. The Scientist offers the same value to society as the Drama Arts teacher and is the reason why everyone gets a participation trophy. That graffiti on the subway walls is compared to the master paintings hanging in the Louvre halls. The bouncing R&B beat has the same value as Beethoven or Bach. Then they manage to break down societal, ethnic, cultural, and religious differences such that there is no more pride in heritage, individualism, or accomplishments. After time we become a blended "world" race of one people with nothing of vast difference between one another. A borderless world of one people. The very reason why Western countries are being flooded with "culture". On the surface it sounds like "peace", that we no longer have differences to fight one another over but instead it leaves us with nothing to cling to such that we no longer question those who threaten our individual freedom. They want to breed a one world race of sheep- that is the real goal of globalism and the education system.
7n6
just look at todays youth and society !!!!! try to go speak your mind to a modern kid see how it goes and what they think etc..
sure there are a few good teachers but sadly they are the HUGE minority
just look at colleges :) hahahaahah the fact some of you are defending them shows how lost you are !!! the push for safe spaces and knocking down free speech etc..
the fact some college kids think Hitler was one of our presidents shows how bad it is !!! NO WAY should any college kid not know who he was !!!!!
white privilege is checked and BLM is superior to all if you do not agree watch out
even regular public schools are so politically correct the teacher might not be that way but the school is and they are under the school control so will hand out birth control to your grade school child and not tell you !!! when your child comes home with info on all the social issues they shove down your kids throats
Averageman
10-15-16, 14:27
Just because you are right, or can't be proven to be wrong, doesn't mean that you have a persuasive argument. The problem with your portrayal of the issue is that you make it seem like every kindergarten teacher has some nefarious plan to Stalinize your kid. When most schools struggle to teach kids the basics, making public schools into re-education, let alone education camps makes people roll their eyes. Is your point two about fluoride?
It doesn't have to be a nefarious plan to Stalanize my kid, it has to do with a system that is basically taking a blank slate (a Kid) and putting them in a system that has been moving toward the Progressive/Socialist agenda for decades.
I am not saying that every Teacher has an ulterior motive, but that many of them have been educated and indoctrinated in to this sort of Progressive ism and now bring those ideas in to the Classroom and present it as fact to your Kids. As they move from Junior High School, to High School and ten on to College or University, these go from ideas presented to a fifteen year old to disputable fact, factual or not to a twenty year old.
The shift from the basic's of education Math, Science and Language Arts toward softer subjects I feel reflects that trend. These area's become more opinion based than fact based and then the foot is in the door.
You're not going to have eight hours a day to educate your children unless you are homeschooling them. If you and your Wife are both working it is likely that you will have less than four hours a day Monday through Friday to discuss School, current events and exactly what they are working on in school.
Every once in a while when I discussed these things with my Son I was rather surprised about how certain things in his History class were being presented to him with a rather liberal slant to them.
My very brief journey as an educator had me believing that most of these people were pretty far left in their personal views based upon discussions going on in the Teachers lounge.
No, fluoride not so much.
and hillary wants you to keep your weapons you know just common sense laws !!!!
sorry roll your eyes tin foil whatever sometimes the truth is what it is and people cant believe its happening
your kids are being brain washed and taught things that are not true to push an agenda ?
Just because you are right, or can't be proven to be wrong, doesn't mean that you have a persuasive argument. The problem with your portrayal of the issue is that you make it seem like every kindergarten teacher has some nefarious plan to Stalinize your kid. When most schools struggle to teach kids the basics, making public schools into re-education, let alone education camps makes people roll their eyes. Is your point two about fluoride?
Tell stories about what this push means and show the victims. Progressives have horrible data on their side, but because they are good at telling stories and picking victims- all that don't require the public to take any or very much action to fix (outlawing guns for Progressives is a non-impact event), they are winning in the public debate.
It doesn't have to be a nefarious plan to Stalanize my kid, it has to do with a system that is basically taking a blank slate (a Kid) and putting them in a system that has been moving toward the Progressive/Socialist agenda for decades.
I am not saying that every Teacher has an ulterior motive, but that many of them have been educated and indoctrinated in to this sort of Progressive ism and now bring those ideas in to the Classroom and present it as fact to your Kids. As they move from Junior High School, to High School and ten on to College or University, these go from ideas presented to a fifteen year old to disputable fact, factual or not to a twenty year old.
The shift from the basic's of education Math, Science and Language Arts toward softer subjects I feel reflects that trend. These area's become more opinion based than fact based and then the foot is in the door.
You're not going to have eight hours a day to educate your children unless you are homeschooling them. If you and your Wife are both working it is likely that you will have less than four hours a day Monday through Friday to discuss School, current events and exactly what they are working on in school.
Every once in a while when I discussed these things with my Son I was rather surprised about how certain things in his History class were being presented to him with a rather liberal slant to them.
My very brief journey as an educator had me believing that most of these people were pretty far left in their personal views based upon discussions going on in the Teachers lounge.
No, fluoride not so much.
+1, there is also no need to over complicate things... all those good, sweet k-5 teachers do/teach what they are told. They have mortgages to pay like most of us and are easily swallowed by the agenda.
Eurodriver
10-15-16, 15:27
+1, there is also no need to over complicate things... all those good, sweet k-5 teachers do/teach what they are told. They have mortgages to pay like most of us and are easily swallowed by the agenda.
And what exactly are the Kindergarten teachers doing to "stalinize" kids?
brushy bill
10-15-16, 15:31
While I believe a lot of the criticisms presented here are valid, a couple of alternative points come to mind. First, from the observations I've had with home schooled children from various church groups, they are uniformly verging on social retardation. Their speech and actions betray, for lack of a better description, inadequate socialization. I don't know what is missing in their experiences, but it is something significant enough that you can see one and say to yourself, "that one is home schooled" and find out you are indeed correct. Others may have had different experiences, but that is mine. I would not want my children going out into the world with their mindset/behaviors.
Second, the majority of parents are not equipped to provide a decent educational foundation. Now one might argue that they can ban together and form a collective, but how many of you want your children's education left to some other person with questionable qualifications to teach, but who shares your political perspective? Also, there are some pretty good (and pretty conservative) schools out there if you spend the time to research. When we bought a home, the single most important consideration had virtually nothing to do with the design/layout of the home or other considerations beyond the quality of the school district. That aside, I always say we are where we are now because socialists have hijacked education and the media. Within a generation, we won't recognize this country and I have very little confidence in the people to do anything to fix it.
While I believe a lot of the criticisms presented here are valid, a couple of alternative points come to mind. First, from the observations I've had with home schooled children from various church groups, they are uniformly verging on social retardation. Their speech and actions betray, for lack of a better description, inadequate socialization. I don't know what is missing in their experiences, but it is something significant enough that you can see one and say to yourself, "that one is home schooled" and find out you are indeed correct. Others may have had different experiences, but that is mine. I would not want my children going out into the world with their mindset/behaviors.
Second, the majority of parents are not equipped to provide a decent educational foundation. Now one might argue that they can ban together and form a collective, but how many of you want your children's education left to some other person with questionable qualifications to teach, but who shares your political perspective? Also, there are some pretty good (and pretty conservative) schools out there if you spend the time to research. When we bought a home, the single most important consideration had virtually nothing to do with the design/layout of the home or other considerations beyond the quality of the school district. That aside, I always say we are where we are now because socialists have hijacked education and the media. Within a generation, we won't recognize this country and I have very little confidence in the people to do anything to fix it.
What exactly is your definition of Socialization? I know quite a few homed schooled children, including my own children and they all seem fine to me. But then they all think like Reformed Christians. They've all managed to escape the "Statist" and leftist/neo-con mentally and actually take seriously the idea of "loving your neighbor as yourself".
communist progressive ideas
you do not matter the collective matters
do not listen to or believe your parents !
and so many others
modern progressive ideology also
LGBT curriculum !
gender identity
white privilege
BLM is what matters dont agree you are racist !
its OK to have sex with the same sex go do it experiment !
whites are bad and oppressive and only whites can be racist
this is a bad country
muslims are peaceful and loving
want birth control your parents do not have to know
want to go visit a mosque and be told to get on the ground and recite the BS that was told but dont tell your parents
and the list goes on and on and on and on
you do not have kids ? so this is a bit like trying to talk to some one without guns about guns ?
And what exactly are the Kindergarten teachers doing to "stalinize" kids?
a few home school kids parents do go over the top and the kids are messed up !
just like some miitant gay people are over the top radical but they are such a tiny % who cares
and in reality the % of those are in the .0 I would reckon easily
also the % of screwed up modern kids in public school HUGELY out weighs a few homeschool kids who might not function well in social areas
some of the kids in public schools that commit mass murder and other things
and in general just todays attitudes etc..
fact is homeschool kids are showing to have better education and know much more including in placement tests and many other areas including socially :)
plenty of info on this including long term in the work force etc..
its obvious bill dude has a bone to pick and does not understand homeschooling as it is today with socialization or curriculum etc.. :) typical response from a anti though :)
again like a anti gun person screaming about how bad guns are is the best analogy
so please name me say 5 examples of this social retardation you talk about !!! and are they mostly from the same people or is this 1000s of kids that are doing this you witness ?
NORMAL PEOPLE SHOULD NOT HAVE GUNS ONLY LEO WHO ARE TRAINED SHOULD HAVE GUNS
there are people trying to fix it and one of them is homeschooling :)
funny you contradict yourself so so so HUGE in the bold part ;) hahahahahh yeah dont trust yourself or others you know send them off to someone you do not ;) hahahahhahahah
Second, the majority of parents are not equipped to provide a decent educational foundation. Now one might argue that they can ban together and form a collective, but how many of you want your children's education left to some other person with questionable qualifications to teach, but who shares your political perspective? Also, there are some pretty good (and pretty conservative) schools out there if you spend the time to research. When we bought a home, the single most important consideration had virtually nothing to do with the design/layout of the home or other considerations beyond the quality of the school district. That aside, I always say we are where we are now because socialists have hijacked education and the media. Within a generation, we won't recognize this country and I have very little confidence in the people to do anything to fix it.
I dunno. I had some hippie dippie teachers who were all peace signs and rainbows. I also had a few grizzled guys who weren't afraid to chump you out, declare you to be the sole reason why the Russians were beating us, and proclaim that you would be dead or in jail by 21 ( ha! showed them!)
Most are just wanting a paycheck, read out of the teachers manual, and try to make it through the day without getting assaulted.
And what exactly are the Kindergarten teachers doing to "stalinize" kids?
I never mentioned "Stalinize"
My point is, everyone needs to keep their jobs at the end of the day... plenty of people go to Washington with good intent, but I guess very few leave with it.
Teachers, politicians, bankers, hell even accountants 😀, I'm saying we get caught up in life, and do our job, even if we strongly disagree with what's going on around us...
As far as an agenda in school, you would have to be blind not to see it, speaking only for my children's schooling of course.
What exactly is your definition of Socialization? I know quite a few homed schooled children, including my own children and they all seem fine to me. But then they all think like Reformed Christians. They've all managed to escape the "Statist" and leftist/neo-con mentally and actually take seriously the idea of "loving your neighbor as yourself".
Tom - Good for you. My kids pretty much roll that way, not because they are home schooled, they aren't, but because their social life pretty much revolves around athletics and church youth group.
My personal experiences with home schooling lead me to believe that most parent's that do home schooling are more interested in home schooling as a way of exerting control rather than providing a superior education. (please understand I am speaking of personal experience - not your family).
My professional experience with home schooled kids attending police training was that they were average academically and ran more to the socially awkward, keep to themselves side of the spectrum.
Likewise, at least in the midwest, teachers are not out to zombify students, my wife teaches and I know many of her co-workers, they are not engaged in a leftist plot.
Averageman
10-15-16, 20:27
Likewise, at least in the midwest, teachers are not out to zombify students, my wife teaches and I know many of her co-workers, they are not engaged in a leftist plot.
I spent a half hour with my Sons Middle School Principal one afternoon;
Now Mind you I was called at work about some fighting going on between my Son and two other Students. My Son had an ongoing issue with a couple of bullies, My response to him changes after the third complaint.
"Either kick their asses or quit crying to me was my reply." I took him out in to the backyard and showed him some basic punches. This would explain how I ended up (again) in the Principals off but mind you, I'm standing there in my Class A's. I was told under no circumstances was my Son to defend himself in such a situation and that he should seek the assistance of a Teacher.
We had been down that route, he had notified a Teacher many times with no results.
After patiently explaining to the Principal that we had tried these things with no positive outcome, I had told my Son to use some assertive physical defense measures to protect himself; She explained to me (Mind you I'm in my Class A's) that there was never a reason to use physical force.
I explained to her what her responsibilities were to my Son's safety under the law (en loco patrente) and that if my Son were to receive any negative action for defending himself I would personally and without hesitation bring some Lawyers (thae same Attorney's that won my parental Custody) in on the issue. I also explained to her what that little Bronze "V" meant and that I expected and raised my Son to those same levels of integrity and action when faced Bullies.
The lesson for the Principal (A Prince of a Pal) was lost on her, what She understood was I wasn't intimidated and I wasn't eating her shit sandwich without a fight.
Mind you, my Son is Bi Racial, that Hispanic kids were doing the harassment, race payed no issue in the harassment until my Son smacked one of theme's head in to the side of the school building a couple of times.
Moose-Knuckle
10-16-16, 04:11
You guys actually think that the teachers pick the curriculum and or wright the text books?
I don't think anyone is saying that here.
But for ****sake YES, there has been social engineering going on for decades in this country. Just look at the transgender non-sense being forced on school children currently.
I posted another thread last year where select public schools around the country began implementing islamic "social studies" projects to circumvent separation of church and state that they use to censor Christianity. These islamic "social studies" included learning how to write the Shahada the islamic statement of faith in Arabic, girls were forced to cover their heads, field trips to a mosque, etc. None of which the parents of these children were made aware of the content of these said studies.
islam promoted + Christianity censored = US public schools . . . (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?177786-islam-promoted-Christianity-censored-US-public-schools)
Academia has been an indoctrination system for Cultural Marxism for over the last fifty years. Look who "teaches" at places like Brown and Columbia these days. Obama's Marxist mentor Bill Ayers and other members of the Weather Underground like Kathy Boudin who recently got out of prison for MURDER.
How 1960s Radicals Ended Up Teaching Your Kids
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/10/how-1960s-radicals-ended-up-teaching-your-kids.html
Ron Paul posted this on his Facebook page just yesterday . . .
Government schools for kids + Government media for adults =
The Wikileaks John Podesta email dump contained a very eye-opening email from Bill Ivey, who was Bill Clinton's appointed chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts. If you had doubts that government was purposely dumbing down Americans, the following should help clear that up very quickly.
http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/archives/government-schools-for-kids-government-media-for-adults
One of the thousands of leaked emails from a Clinton staffer.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8640/30059213640_fea679ff15_b.jpg
This is the highlighted part:
We've all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry. The unawareness remains strong but compliance is obviously fading rapidly. This problem demands some serious, serious thinking - and not just poll driven, demographically-inspired messaging... I fear we are all now trying to navigate a set of forces that cannot be simply explained or fully understood . . .
Yes, we got to this place because of naive people who can't see what is going on right in front of their faces. "Tinfoil hat", "conspiracy theory", bhaaa-bhaaa-bhaaa . . .
Common Core is product of said program to dumb down US school children.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8tZGl1SVs0
I get having to work, needing two incomes for some families, but with all of the data coming out about homeschooling, I wonder why more people don't do it? It is growing, quite a bit, and as long as the .gov wants to screw around with curricula and the outcomes still stay dismal, it will be more and more popular.
Averageman
10-17-16, 12:54
I get having to work, needing two incomes for some families, but with all of the data coming out about homeschooling, I wonder why more people don't do it? It is growing, quite a bit, and as long as the .gov wants to screw around with curricula and the outcomes still stay dismal, it will be more and more popular.
I'm surprised more Churches don't get in to the business of providing an education for the children of their parishioners.
The potential for this to be a Win/Win for both the Parents and the Church are pretty good.
The idea of school vouchers would allows these folks to take better advantage of such a situation, thus the DOE and Teachers Unions scream bloody murder each time the subject comes up.
I believe Trump supports it.
I'm surprised more Churches don't get in to the business of providing an education for the children of their parishioners.
The potential for this to be a Win/Win for both the Parents and the Church are pretty good.
The idea of school vouchers would allows these folks to take better advantage of such a situation, thus the DOE and Teachers Unions scream bloody murder each time the subject comes up.
I believe Trump supports it.
I agree. Most of the churches that do wrap it under "private school" label and charge an arm, leg, and kidney. Our former church has a co-op of homeschooled students, though, and the model worked well. The teachers are church members, many professors at local universities, the statistics teacher works for SAS Institute, etc.
There are so many ways to educate a child, and about 99% are better than public education.
I came in here to post exactly what FromMyColdDeadHands did.
Kindergarten teachers, second grade teachers, and even younger college profs are not intentionally or even unintentionally creating zombies. I know this because I know many of them quite well.
Quite well indeed.
Might have just been time and place, but I had more than one hippy teacher telling us about cool things like "utopian societies" when we actually should have been working on math or science. She asked the class what everyone would want to be in such a society and everyone answered doctor, ballerina, astronaut, etc. Funny she didn't mention that if you didn't demonstrate a specific aptitude for your "dream" that you'd simply be assigned to State Factory 26.
Nobody raised their hands with dreams of working in sanitation, food service or sewer maintenance. We were sold the lies and I accepted them for quite some time until the real world disabused me of my misconceptions. If I never had to actually work for a living and was mentored into something like politics or teaching, I might still believe a lot of that crap.
When I worked for the school board the dogma was stronger than anything at the most orthodox Catholic church.
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