View Full Version : Ballistic Advantage Hanson Mid vs. Bravo Company Enhanced Lightweight midlength
Looking at either the BA Hanson 5.56 16" mid-length (Performance series, so NOT stainless) or a BCM Enhanced lightweight 5.56 16" mid-length barrel. Which one would you all pick and why?
The BA Hanson is appealing as it comes with a PINNED low pro gas block and of course the obvious convenience of that plus the cost savings compared to getting a BCM and gas block, then sending it out to be pinned.
This will be a rifle used as a training / home defense rifle.
Are there any foibles with the Ballistic Advantage barrels? I've had several BCM lightweight barrels (a BFH and a standard), but never the enhanced. I've never had a hiccup with either of the them.
Can anyone give me compelling reasons to go with one over the other?
ColtSeavers
10-16-16, 19:58
Option 3 is what I went with for the wife's newest build:
http://ballisticadvantage.com/16-inch-556-gov-pencil-carbine-cmv-modern-barrel.html
$210 after selecting pinned gas block option.
Very happy with it. Very happy with all my Ballistic Advantage barrels to be honest.
I woud go with a Ballistic Advantage barrel for the factory pinning option, along with the quality in general.
I have two BA modern series barrels, albeit with FSB's, that I haven't been disappointed with yet. Accuracy is where it should be for the type barrel it is. Round counts are less than 1k on both but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one with a LPGB.
Edit: also a BCM SS410 owner as well.
I have a .625 ballistic advantage Hanson barrel and I couldn't be happier. Well machined, cost effective and a better barrel than I am a shooter. You will not be disappointed with either
Eurodriver
10-16-16, 20:32
OP, Have you tried removing a set screwed BCM gas block?
Favorite quote from the internet: "Very Secure"
OP, Have you tried removing a set screwed BCM gas block?
Favorite quote from the internet: "Very Secure"
Is that on a factory barrel assembly?
I guess it's more a question of me getting it that secure if I build it. In my mind, pinning removes all doubt about the security of the gas block.
Eurodriver
10-16-16, 20:44
You're correct, but my point remains. BCM gas block on a BCM barrel isn't going anywhere - even if you put it on.
You're correct, but my point remains. BCM gas block on a BCM barrel isn't going anywhere - even if you put it on.
Roger that. Maybe I'll just do the right thing here and buy both....
The Ballistic Advantage has more bells and whistles for the price than the BCM. I can't say anything bad about BCM but for the money the BA Hanson is just a better barrel for your application. Now if you were heading off the war I would say go with the BCM, but for anything you are going to throw at this thing the Hanson will be more accurate and will hold up great.
For another suggestion I would highly recommend looking at the Faxon GUNNER profile barrels. I just installed one on my lightweight build and this thing is just downright sexy. They have awesome reviews and are about as light as you can get while still sporting a solid profile where it counts. The GUNNER profile keeps a bigger heavier profile from the extension to the gas block and then a pencil profile from the gas block to the threads. I went with the 16" and it weighs in under 20oz which if memory serves me the BA Hanson 16" .625 is 22oz and the BCM enhanced lightweight .625 is 22oz. I paid just under $200 shipped for mine. Seriously a great contender with your choices here and it would give both a run for their money. At least look into it and see what you think.
Oh and if you order the Faxon barrels from Aimsurplus they come with a gas block as well.
If you order a Faxon barrel from Faxon, you can get it with a matched bolt
Honestly, the BCM barrels are a bit overpriced IMHO if you're buying a stand alone barrel. BCM uppers are great and well worth the money, though.
I believe you get more from stand alone DD barrels. They are hammer forged and come with taper pinned gas blocks from ADCO for $280. Much cheaper than a BCM after putting a gas block on a BCM and having it pinned. And you don't have to pay out the nose extra for their CHF/BFH model.
I also have a BA Hanson .625 and a Faxon Gunner. Both are excellent and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. You get a LOT for your money. They certainly are making the DD and BCM barrels look like they're overpriced.
I have a BA 16" Hanson on the build I just finished and have 550 rounds down the pipe and love it! Tom's Tactical has the best price on this barrel that I found $179.99 with free shipping. If I had to pay MSRP for the BA I would have had a harder time choosing which barrel to go with. I am not affiliated with Tom's Tactical nor do I know anyone who is but I placed two orders with them during my build and was happy with prices and shipping. I didn't have any problems that warranted me to contact their CS so I can not speak to the quality of CS.
I have a BA 16" Hanson on the build I just finished and have 550 rounds down the pipe and love it! Tom's Tactical has the best price on this barrel that I found $179.99 with free shipping. If I had to pay MSRP for the BA I would have had a harder time choosing which barrel to go with. I am not affiliated with Tom's Tactical nor do I know anyone who is but I placed two orders with them during my build and was happy with prices and shipping. I didn't have any problems that warranted me to contact their CS so I can not speak to the quality of CS.
Are the chambers and bores chrome lined?
ColtSeavers
10-17-16, 09:19
Are the chambers and bores chrome lined?
They are Melonite/QPQ/Nitride for 4150 CMV. The extension either is as well or is FailZero Nickel Boron, depending on the specific barrel you get.
FaxonNathan
10-17-16, 11:15
They certainly are making the DD and BCM barrels look like they're overpriced.
That is the objective. ;)
If we can help in any way, please let us know.
OP, Have you tried removing a set screwed BCM gas block?
Favorite quote from the internet: "Very Secure"
I've changed a few muzzle devices on BCM barrels with set screw gas blocks. I put the barrel in some bubba barrel blocks, I used the gas block to keep the barrel from spinning. I wouldn't recommend it, but the bcm block didn't budge at all.
I had a POS upper did the same thing and twirled the gas block right off LOL!
That is the objective. ;)
If we can help in any way, please let us know.
Don't want to derail the thread but just wanted to let you guys know you're doing a great job with your barrels. I just received the 16" GUNNER and the fit and finish is excellent. The gun isn't complete yet so I haven't shot it to see what kind of groups I get both with a cold barrel and after it heats up, but I'm looking forward to testing it out. Keep it up.
I have a BA 16" Hanson on the build I just finished and have 550 rounds down the pipe and love it! Tom's Tactical has the best price on this barrel that I found $179.99 with free shipping. If I had to pay MSRP for the BA I would have had a harder time choosing which barrel to go with. I am not affiliated with Tom's Tactical nor do I know anyone who is but I placed two orders with them during my build and was happy with prices and shipping. I didn't have any problems that warranted me to contact their CS so I can not speak to the quality of CS.
Tom's is out of stock on the .625 barrels right now. Any other stores with this kinda pricing?
Tom's is out of stock on the .625 barrels right now. Any other stores with this kinda pricing?
Check out granite ridge outfitters and use the coupon code and it should put you pretty close to that price. The coupon code will be listed on the page with the barrels. I've used them lots of times and they have free shipping and they ship quick. Good luck.
Singlestack Wonder
10-19-16, 14:13
Check out granite ridge outfitters and use the coupon code and it should put you pretty close to that price. The coupon code will be listed on the page with the barrels. I've used them lots of times and they have free shipping and they ship quick. Good luck.
Looked at their website...strictly low tier items.
Looked at their website...strictly low tier items.
What kind of comment is that? Are you kidding me? They carry Ballistic advantage Hanson profile barrels which is what we are discussing here so no, they don't just carry low tier items. I've also picked up a couple sets of magpul pro backup irons there. Some real personalities on here. Jesus Christ.
Thanks for the tip. Just tried to order and according to them their CC processor is in the process of being swapped and they're not accepting orders night now. Lame!
Maybe I'll just get a Faxon Gunner.
Thanks for the tip. Just tried to order and according to them their CC processor is in the process of being swapped and they're not accepting orders night now. Lame!
Maybe I'll just get a Faxon Gunner.
I'm sure they will be back up soon. I just got a set of magpul pros from them that came yesterday so they are usually good about ordering and shipping quick.
That aside I love my new Faxon GUNNER and you will definitely not be disappointed in that if you go that route. So don't feel like the Faxon is a "settle for" just because you are having a hard time with getting the BA barrel ordered. I would bet that the Faxon is every bit as good if not better than the BA anyway. I'm telling you the fit and finish on this one is beautiful.
Nocalsocal
10-19-16, 17:59
Check out granite ridge outfitters and use the coupon code and it should put you pretty close to that price. The coupon code will be listed on the page with the barrels. I've used them lots of times and they have free shipping and they ship quick. Good luck.
"Looked at their website...strictly low tier items."
He must be talking about the BCM charging handles they also sell.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
If it's for serious use I'd rather have a chromed lined BCM barrel. For anything else Ballistic Advantage is probably just fine.
Why? Any data to show a BA Hanson barrel is any less reliable?
If it's for serious use I'd rather have a chromed lined BCM barrel. For anything else Ballistic Advantage is probably just fine.
Why? Any data to show a BA Hanson barrel is any less reliable?
Absolutely not. Some people have a hard time believing that anything can be as good as BCM. I love BCM and they make an excellent product that has proven itself time and time again. But there are companies that are putting out products that are just as good if not better in some cases.
I'm sure they will be back up soon. I just got a set of magpul pros from them that came yesterday so they are usually good about ordering and shipping quick.
That aside I love my new Faxon GUNNER and you will definitely not be disappointed in that if you go that route. So don't feel like the Faxon is a "settle for" just because you are having a hard time with getting the BA barrel ordered. I would bet that the Faxon is every bit as good if not better than the BA anyway. I'm telling you the fit and finish on this one is beautiful.
How does it shoot?
That's the camp I'm in. I currently have a rifle with a BA Hanson, a DD, a Faxon Gunner, and a Larue Stealth. The Larue is the most accurate by far, but I don't really see much difference between the BA, DD, and Faxon. All have been great.
I'm really not seeing the benefit of buying BCM stand alone barrels these days. Their upper receiver groups are a good bang for the buck, but their stand alone barrels are pretty expensive compared to some of the other excellent options out there these days. They make a great product, though.
Absolutely not. Some people have a hard time believing that anything can be as good as BCM. I love BCM and they make an excellent product that has proven itself time and time again. But there are companies that are putting out products that are just as good if not better in some cases.
How does it shoot?
I should revise that and say I love the fit and finish of my Faxon GUNNER. It's going to the range this afternoon for the first time so I will report back. Earlier in the thread I noted it's on a build in progress but that will be done this afternoon when the rail shows up. While researching this choice I found that people are reporting very good accuracy out of these barrels which is what ultimately led me to my decision. The fit and finish is just a bonus at this point.
That's the camp I'm in. I currently have a rifle with a BA Hanson, a DD, a Faxon Gunner, and a Larue Stealth. The Larue is the most accurate by far, but I don't really see much difference between the BA, DD, and Faxon. All have been great.
I'm really not seeing the benefit of buying BCM stand alone barrels these days. Their upper receiver groups are a good bang for the buck, but their stand alone barrels are pretty expensive compared to some of the other excellent options out there these days. They make a great product, though.
Agreed. It seems we have similar taste in barrels though. I too have a DD V11 upper, a couple of Larue Stealth barrels "which ive also found to be the most accurate", and now the GUNNER.
Having more options isn't a bad thing so people shouldn't get offended if BCM isn't the one and only. It's great that there are other companies that have been coming on strong in this market. I still use and love BCM for certain parts of my builds, but as you said their pricing on their barrels is just a bit too high for what you get. A little competition will do nothing but help push pricing more inline hopefully. I did however almost go with their 14.5" enhanced lightweight which they have for $179 on their site, which is a good price.
I should revise that and say I love the fit and finish of my Faxon GUNNER. It's going to the range this afternoon for the first time so I will report back.
That was quite the sales pitch you gave without even shooting it.
Here's a good thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?70019-The-Good-The-Bad-and-The-Ugly-an-M4C-Style-Guide) that has some great points with regards to opinions & first hand knowledge.
556BlackRifle
10-20-16, 10:20
That was quite the sales pitch you gave without even shooting it.
Here's a good thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?70019-The-Good-The-Bad-and-The-Ugly-an-M4C-Style-Guide) that has some great points with regards to opinions & first hand knowledge.
That should be required reading for all members.
Fit and Finish doesn't mean anything to us here because it doesn't mean anything. You guys are comparing very different barrels built for different purposes and the OP is asking between a chrome lined barrel vs a QPQ barrel. For defense I want to have things proven to work so BCM's chrome lined will be my first choice.
Update on Faxon GUNNER 16". These are the groups I got at 75yds shooting from a bench rest with trijicon MRO. The barrel is very accurate and with a magnified optic can probably be dialed in even better. These groups were shot while I was zeroing the optic for this particular rifle so they get closer to the center as they go on. I can honestly recommend this as a great alternative to the BA Hanson.
42094
42095
42096
42097
Except that 3 round groups are less than desirable and don't provide much data.
...not to mention at 75 yards also.
Except that 3 round groups are less than desirable and don't provide much data.
...not to mention at 75 yards also.
Seriously man? Don't be an asshole. I'm trying to help here. You baited me to make me look like an idiot so I went and tried to get the info I needed to help here and you pull this shit. I don't have time for people like you.
Seriously man? Don't be an asshole. I'm trying to help here. You baited me to make me look like an idiot so I went and tried to get the info I needed to help here and you pull this shit. I don't have time for people like you.
Actually, I'm trying to help you, help others, better. Think of it less of being an asshole & more of just "tough love". [emoji6]
Making recommendations based on fit & finish isn't help at all. Giving actual shooting data is great but 5, or better yet, 10 round groups is better than 3.
I'm sure Faxon is good, I've read a lot of positive comments but if you're going to provide "help" to others, try to add some substance.
Actually, I'm trying to help you, help others, better. Think of it less of being an asshole & more of just "tough love". [emoji6]
Making recommendations based on fit & finish isn't help at all. Giving actual shooting data is great but 5, or better yet, 10 round groups is better than 3.
I'm sure Faxon is good, I've read a lot of positive comments but if you're going to provide "help" to others, try to add some substance.
Please don't make me go all thru this entire forum and post up all the 3 shot groups at 75 yards that people use as a point of reference. I'm just too busy to mess around with that and we both know that they are all over the place. Maybe it's not as common as 5 shot groups at 100, but they are out there. So your comments are very obviously made to try and make me look like an idiot. Listen, I'm not some kid working at the auto parts store that goes shooting every couple weeks. I'm 38 and will be retiring next year because I was smart and made good decisions that are now going to allow me to do whatever the hell I want whenever the hell I want for the rest of my life. So one of the things I'm not going to do is take shit when it's not deserved. I took your first comment when you so blatantly baited me and made me look like an asshole the first time in this thread and I swallowed it, went to the range, and instead of hiding embarrassed that I spouted off when I shouldn't have, I came back here and posted up real world results that I was proud to show. We are discussing a few Relatively inexpensive barrels here. These aren't match grade $500 examples. So I think what I provided is a good idea of what the barrel is capable of with a red dot and the front of the rail resting on my range bag. So I will kindly ask that whatever it is that you and I have that isn't jiving here just gets put in the past and let's move forward and try to both enjoy our hobby. Us bickering back and forth surely isn't contributing anything at all here. I'm more than willing to say I screwed up earlier in this thread, but give me a little credit for pushing thru. Most people would run off with their tail tucked between their legs. Now let's get on with it here my new friend.
So anyway... Back to the BA vs BCM barrel thread.
Coal Dragger
10-22-16, 17:41
Please don't make me go all thru this entire forum and post up all the 3 shot groups at 75 yards that people use as a point of reference. I'm just too busy to mess around with that and we both know that they are all over the place. Maybe it's not as common as 5 shot groups at 100, but they are out there. So your comments are very obviously made to try and make me look like an idiot. Listen, I'm not some kid working at the auto parts store that goes shooting every couple weeks. I'm 38 and will be retiring next year because I was smart and made good decisions that are now going to allow me to do whatever the hell I want whenever the hell I want for the rest of my life. So one of the things I'm not going to do is take shit when it's not deserved. I took your first comment when you so blatantly baited me and made me look like an asshole the first time in this thread and I swallowed it, went to the range, and instead of hiding embarrassed that I spouted off when I shouldn't have, I came back here and posted up real world results that I was proud to show. We are discussing a few Relatively inexpensive barrels here. These aren't match grade $500 examples. So I think what I provided is a good idea of what the barrel is capable of with a red dot and the front of the rail resting on my range bag. So I will kindly ask that whatever it is that you and I have that isn't jiving here just gets put in the past and let's move forward and try to both enjoy our hobby. Us bickering back and forth surely isn't contributing anything at all here. I'm more than willing to say I screwed up earlier in this thread, but give me a little credit for pushing thru. Most people would run off with their tail tucked between their legs. Now let's get on with it here my new friend.
Yeah lots of people do "accuracy" evaluations (really precision) using 3 shot groups, and sometimes even at distances less than 100 yards. That does not change the fact that they are not really generating any statistically valid data. A 3 shot group doesn't generate enough data points to infer much if anything about the barrel and ammunition combination. For example I once shot several 3 shot groups out of my .280AI hunting rifle with 160gr Nosler Accubonds over a stiff charge of IMR 4350, at a distance of 100 yards a few of them measured scarcely larger than .25" center to center. Yet when I retested this same load in the same barrel and used a 10 shot group I experienced more deviation and ended up with what I can honestly say is a no shit .75" grouping load in that barrel at 100 yards. In other words I accumulated enough data points to account for a reasonable standard deviation and know than in the worst case scenario for that ammo (excluding external factors) it will shoot .75" at 100 yards.
I appreciate your informal efforts at demonstrating the barrel is capable of shooting a group, but at a range as short as 75 yards with only 3 shot groups it doesn't tell us much about what the barrel can actually do consistently. This doesn't mean you're a bad shot, or ignorant it just means you and we need more data points (and a bit more distance) to get a good idea of what is what.
Yeah lots of people do "accuracy" evaluations (really precision) using 3 shot groups, and sometimes even at distances less than 100 yards. That does not change the fact that they are not really generating any statistically valid data. A 3 shot group doesn't generate enough data points to infer much if anything about the barrel and ammunition combination. For example I once shot several 3 shot groups out of my .280AI hunting rifle with 160gr Nosler Accubonds over a stiff charge of IMR 4350, at a distance of 100 yards a few of them measured scarcely larger than .25" center to center. Yet when I retested this same load in the same barrel and used a 10 shot group I experienced more deviation and ended up with what I can honestly say is a no shit .75" grouping load in that barrel at 100 yards. In other words I accumulated enough data points to account for a reasonable standard deviation and know than in the worst case scenario for that ammo (excluding external factors) it will shoot .75" at 100 yards.
I appreciate your informal efforts at demonstrating the barrel is capable of shooting a group, but at a range as short as 75 yards with only 3 shot groups it doesn't tell us much about what the barrel can actually do consistently. This doesn't mean you're a bad shot, or ignorant it just means you and we need more data points (and a bit more distance) to get a good idea of what is what.
If it helps, all of the groups pictured were shot back to back with only minor adjusting of my red dot in between. But they were shot thru the same magazine within a 2 minute time frame. Whether or not that helps I don't know. Regardless as I mentioned before, we aren't talking about a $500 match grade barrel here. We are trying to establish if the Faxon is a decent conteneder for someone looking at the Ballistic Advantage and the BCM. Which in my opinion taking into consideration the beautiful fit and finish and the small example posted from the range today I would say it's in the running.
Another thing that has me puzzled is how some people could totally disregard fit and finish as a showing of quality. For example I'm a high end watch and car collector and fit and finish plays a huge part in judging the quality of a finely made watch or a well built automobile. If a company is willing to go the extra mile and finish off their product so that it is aesthetically pleasing as well, then that should be a good indicator that they take pride in their product and want it to represent them as a high quality manufacturer. Completely discarding fit and finish as a criteria with an AR is just mind blowing to me. If it wasn't important then companies like Battle Arms, Vseven, SLR Rifleworks, and many others wouldn't be in business and successful. There are different types of AR owners just like with anything. I for one like my rifles to look as good as they shoot.
Another thing that has me puzzled is how some people could totally disregard fit and finish as a showing of quality.
Well, Colt lacks in the "fit & finish" dept but is a top contender in ARs. In fact, there's very few (if any) brands I would choose over them. Faxon (sorry) isn't one of them.
The point is not that it doesn't matter, but for people using the rifle, we like quantifiable benefits, like accuracy, tolorance, adherence to specs, and durability.
3 shot groups aren't useless as a point of refference, but can be misleading... hell, a few months ago, I was touting some ammo as great stuff based on a few 5 shot groups. Some members had other experiences with 10 shot groups so I tried a few out and found it wasn't as consistent as I thought.
We all gotta learn somewhere, no one's coming at you, they are explaining better practices. Being a little less emotionally involved helps keep the data to the forefront and helps keep threads on track.
I appreciate the data, it's not the best but a point of refference. When you get time, I'm sure a lot of people would welcome some 10 shot groups at 100yds so we can get some solid comparisons. Data is the reason we are here, it's what sets m4c apart from other forums.
Edit, guns are not fashion statements, cars and watches are. Apples to oranges.
The point is not that it doesn't matter, but for people using the rifle, we like quantifiable benefits, like accuracy, tolorance, adherence to specs, and durability.
3 shot groups aren't useless as a point of refference, but can be misleading... hell, a few months ago, I was touting some ammo as great stuff based on a few 5 shot groups. Some members had other experiences with 10 shot groups so I tried a few out and found it wasn't as consistent as I thought.
We all gotta learn somewhere, no one's coming at you, they are explaining better practices. Being a little less emotionally involved helps keep the data to the forefront and helps keep threads on track.
I appreciate the data, it's not the best but a point of refference. When you get time, I'm sure a lot of people would welcome some 10 shot groups at 100yds so we can get some solid comparisons. Data is the reason we are here, it's what sets m4c apart from other forums.
Edit, guns are not fashion statements, cars and watches are. Apples to oranges.
I'll be back at the range tomorrow so I'll put some better info together.
As for guns not being fashion statements I would not agree. Take a look at stickmans Flickr page and many others. These new modern companies "Battle Arms, SLR, Fortis, VSeven, etc."are making ARs that look as good as they perform. They are being put up to pose for photo shoots and shown off like they are Ferraris. There are always going to be guys that view these strictly as tools, but now a days there is no denying that they are glorified and used as fashion statements as well. Different times. I personally love the modern AR-15.
As for guns not being fashion statements I would not agree. Take a look at stickmans Flickr page and many others. These new modern companies "Battle Arms, SLR, Fortis, VSeven, etc."are making ARs that look as good as they perform. They are being put up to pose for photo shoots and shown off like they are Ferraris. There are always going to be guys that view these strictly as tools, but now a days there is no denying that they are glorified and used as fashion statements as well. Different times. I personally love the modern AR-15.
I guess we've come full circle again so I'll point out a little tidbit you missed in the thread I linked you earlier.
Please don't take this the wrong way but I don't think you "get" M4C. Perhaps TOS might be a better fit for you.
Form Follows Function.
The Good: Perspective is an important component to understanding what M4C is all about, and our perspective on firearms as working tools can be especially instructive. We all appreciate a particularly well-executed carbine, the best new developments, and the finest accessories and gear.
The Bad: What makes these components attractive, per the M4C definition, is first and foremost the utility and capability that they provide. While the best tools do possess a certain innate beauty, the "ooh, that looks so cool" subculture that seems to predominate elsewhere in the gun world is not really our forte -- nor is it really welcome here. M4C just isn't the place for expressions of the "pimp your gun" mentality.
The Ugly: If you're preoccupied with carbine glamor shots and external appearances, or making your purchase and/or modification decisions based largely upon aesthetics, sooner or later you are going to get your feelings hurt. If your awesome-looking carbine is a safe queen that only sees the light of day for photo sessions, we're going to find that pretty pathetic. If your pathetic-looking carbine runs like a sewing machine in class after class, we're going to find that pretty awesome. You get the idea.
AC
I guess we've come full circle again so I'll point out a little tidbit you missed in the thread I linked you earlier.
Please don't take this the wrong way but I don't think you "get" M4C. Perhaps TOS might be a better fit for you.
I'm done with you sir. This thread is off topic. If you have further issues you are welcome to PM me to discuss.
Deleted. Life is too short as it is. mipgolf1 - my deleted response was not directed at you.
I guess you've not looked at the gay-ass watch, painted carbine, etc. threads, huh?
You're right, I haven't. [emoji6]
Deleted. Life is too short as it is. mipgolf1 - my deleted response was not directed at you.
I read it before it was deleted. I appreciate the support. I really was just trying to help here.
Deleted. Life is too short as it is. mipgolf1 - my deleted response was not directed at you.
Obviously I know it was directed at me.
We should delete AC's sticky also, since it appears to offend people and apparently is no longer valid.
SeriousStudent
10-22-16, 21:36
I keep wondering why I keep seeing the same names in the same arguments over and over......
mjpgolf1 - why don't you take a rest for a while? Seriously, just read for a while and not post.
Because right now it's just a suggestion. I see one more bickering thread, and it will stop being a suggestion.
Obviously I know it was directed at me.
We should delete AC's sticky also, since it appears to offend people and apparently is no longer valid.
Hey, you know, maybe I didn't look that close at the plank in my own eye before I spoke, but, dang, I thought you were getting on the guy after he tried to make nice.
Coal Dragger
10-23-16, 02:30
If it helps, all of the groups pictured were shot back to back with only minor adjusting of my red dot in between. But they were shot thru the same magazine within a 2 minute time frame. Whether or not that helps I don't know. Regardless as I mentioned before, we aren't talking about a $500 match grade barrel here. We are trying to establish if the Faxon is a decent conteneder for someone looking at the Ballistic Advantage and the BCM. Which in my opinion taking into consideration the beautiful fit and finish and the small example posted from the range today I would say it's in the running.
Another thing that has me puzzled is how some people could totally disregard fit and finish as a showing of quality. For example I'm a high end watch and car collector and fit and finish plays a huge part in judging the quality of a finely made watch or a well built automobile. If a company is willing to go the extra mile and finish off their product so that it is aesthetically pleasing as well, then that should be a good indicator that they take pride in their product and want it to represent them as a high quality manufacturer. Completely discarding fit and finish as a criteria with an AR is just mind blowing to me. If it wasn't important then companies like Battle Arms, Vseven, SLR Rifleworks, and many others wouldn't be in business and successful. There are different types of AR owners just like with anything. I for one like my rifles to look as good as they shoot.
Well using the car analogy if this were a car forum you'd probably find a lot of hard core racing enthusiasts and industry professionals. This would not be a forum dedicated to Concours de' Elegance or Pebble Beach car show type cars.
While a competitive race car is hugely expensive often times fit and finish of cosmetic components of the car come in a very distant second to functional capabilities: how fast, how durable, how consistent. If it can be made to look pretty as well, then great, but first and foremost it must perform.
This site is in many ways unique because it caters to a lot of knowledgeable professional end users. To these guys a carbine is a tool, tools get dirty, they get abused, they don't need to be pretty. If a modification or other effort is put into changing some aspect of the tool it should serve a purpose beyond looks. For example fit needs to be oriented towards maximum performant and ease of maintenance, and finishes are there to improve part durability and service life in adverse conditions. Remember we're dealing with a service rifle/carbine here, the automotive equivalent of a hard use vehicle be it a race car or commercial vehicle.
friendlyfireisnt
10-23-16, 12:47
To get back on a more technical front, I've got more than a few barrels, including multiple BCM's and also a Ballistic Advantage, and I have done some accuracy tests with a few of them. Some tests were 10-shot groups (some were 3 or more 10-shot groups), some were 5-shot groups. I have avoided 3-shot groups.
Not a 100% fair comparison, because of difference in caliber, and therefore ammunition, and the barrel length and profile are different as well. But it's a good way just to see potential. These are some of the BEST groups I have shot with each barrel, with that specific ammunition choice.
Ballistic Advantage with 110gr Blacktips (5-shot) Group size is 1.452" center-to-center
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1536/24191043353_70a3354191_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CRFqon)110 Blacktip #4 (https://flic.kr/p/CRFqon) by Photographer Pilot (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138264913@N04/), on Flickr
Ballistic Advantage with 110gr VMAX (10-shot) Group size is 1.724" center-to-center
https://c8.staticflickr.com/2/1645/24964513911_7f169fe8cb_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/E32EeD)image (https://flic.kr/p/E32EeD) by Photographer Pilot (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138264913@N04/), on Flickr
BCM Lightweight 14.5" 50gr American Eagle Varmint Group size 1.870" center-to-center
https://c7.staticflickr.com/2/1478/25232884734_12c6e41e7f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ErK8wN)BCM American Eagle Varmint (https://flic.kr/p/ErK8wN) by Photographer Pilot (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138264913@N04/), on Flickr
BCM Lightweight 14.5" 77gr Nosler Handloads Group size 1.684" center-to-center
https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1484/25232883744_2e0317185b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ErK8eJ)BCM 77gr Nosler (https://flic.kr/p/ErK8eJ) by Photographer Pilot (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138264913@N04/), on Flickr
Now, these were once again, just groups that I have documented with specific barrels and specific ammunition that I have chosen for specific purposes, not necessarily the most accurate ammo. These groups are also done one different days, but with a similar setup and with the same scope and at the same distance (100 yards). Average groups sizes are of course a bit larger than these posted.
To me, what I see is two barrels that are capable of providing adequate accuracy when provided good ammo. That's only part of the story though. Longevity, durability, finish quality and even the chamber dimensions may have some significant differences. Unfortunately, I can't provide any real good data points on those factors.
So to me, while I have a strong bias towards BCM (and DD and Larue), the Ballistic Advantage shows good performance at a good price. I would feel comfortable building another AR using one of their barrels.
As an additional data point, here is a Daniel Defense 16" lightweight barrel with the same 77gr Nosler handloads, shot on the same day as the BCM (group size 1.054" center to center)
https://c4.staticflickr.com/2/1501/25236814523_b6c5b94ab7_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Es6gHM)DD Nosler 77gr (https://flic.kr/p/Es6gHM) by Photographer Pilot (https://www.flickr.com/photos/138264913@N04/), on Flickr
Wow this thread went to hell quickly. Anyway, I ordered a 16" BA Hanson .625 barrel. Can't wait to get it in and keep working on this upper. It's on an Aero upper and it is getting a 12" ALG EMR V3.
That being said, the one other question I had that didn't really seem to get touched on is that I've read in a few places that these barrels are pretty conservatively gassed. Anyone have issues with .223 ammo such as PMC bronze or the like?
I'm not sure how it stacks up velocity wise (I should check), but the SD load that I've stocked is Hornady TAP .223 75gr BTHP's. Hopefully it is reliable in this barrel. EDIT: The .223 Hornady TAP is listed at 2790 fps at the muzzle, which appears to be several hundred fps less than what something like m855 is listed at. Will have to buy some to function test in this rifle I guess.
Frankly, I'm not as concerned with out and out accuracy in this particular gun. It's a home defense rifle first and foremost, so at those "hallway" type distances it's not super-critical.
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