View Full Version : IV8888 shoots a POF P416 for over 2,700 rounds without any serious mechanical failure
BallisticHarmony
10-17-16, 14:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Id_soYaAm8&index=4&list=WL
Do you think it performed well, or do you think Eric made a bigger deal about its reliability than it should have been given credit for?
His first test with a DI AR ran better overall until its barrel blew. They have yet to retest a DI midlength with a heavier barrel profile, which I think would run exceptionally well.
masenomics
10-17-16, 15:11
I would have preferred they tested a factory colt 6920 on their first DI AR meltdown, would've been kinda interesting to see what the "mil-spec bench mark" would withstand.
I don't understand why you think 2,700 is a huge deal?
MOLON AABE
10-17-16, 15:31
I don't understand why you think 2,700 is a huge deal?
2,700 rounds on full auto, stopping only to change mags is pretty good if you ask me. That said I second the motion of a test of both the M4, and M4A1 Carbine and a commercial Carbine like the BCM or DD.
Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi
BallisticHarmony
10-17-16, 15:34
I don't understand why you think 2,700 is a huge deal?
Guess you didn't watch the vid.... it was continuous fire.
bloodlord77
10-17-16, 15:46
I thought he was running a bolt action as many times as he ran that charging handle. :)
I don't understand why you think 2,700 is a huge deal?
Guess you didn't watch the vid.... it was continuous fire.
Continuous full-auto... for the most part.
Like everything else on YouTube, its entertainment not science.
BallisticHarmony
10-17-16, 18:10
You should buy one.
Never said I liked the product or was trying to endorse it.... I don't even like piston guns.
I think A few people here don't know the meaning of continuous.
That thing had probably 25+ stoppages in that 2700 rounds.It was no where near continuous because half the time he was trying to get it to shoot more than a few rounds at a time or trying to get the bolt to lock back.I'm more impressed by the DI gun they built that ran 800+ with no stoppages as fast as he could shove mags in it.
The gun started having repeated failures at 750 rounds.
At what round count did yours start having stoppages, BallisticHarmony? Or did you fire a box of ammo and then put it away safely until next year?
BallisticHarmony
10-18-16, 13:02
I think A few people here don't know the meaning of continuous.
That thing had probably 25+ stoppages in that 2700 rounds.It was no where near continuous because half the time he was trying to get it to shoot more than a few rounds at a time or trying to get the bolt to lock back.I'm more impressed by the DI gun they built that ran 800+ with no stoppages as fast as he could shove mags in it.
Just like I stated in the OP. It was not continuous in the traditional sense, but it never permanently failed. They should redo the DI test with a heavier barrel.
Like posted above, I'd like to see a LE6920 tested to set the bench mark.
Like posted above, I'd like to see a LE6920 tested to set the bench mark.
M4A1 - 911 rounds before the gas tube failed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9uny8aCoLc
M4A1 - 911 rounds before the gas tube failed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9uny8aCoLc
Thanks! Good thing he didn't have to hang on to that burning handguard... :eek:
Mrgunsngear
10-18-16, 20:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Id_soYaAm8&index=4&list=WL
Do you think it performed well, or do you think Eric made a bigger deal about its reliability than it should have been given credit for?
His first test with a DI AR ran better overall until its barrel blew. They have yet to retest a DI midlength with a heavier barrel profile, which I think would run exceptionally well.
Embed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Id_soYaAm8&index=4&list=WL
Does it say something about nitride barrels vs. chrome lined since the barrel didn't blow? Or do you think it's not relevant because of the breaks that were taken to clear stoppages and stuck casings? To me this is less about DI vs. piston and more about chrome lined vs. nitride because the first two tests (both chrome lined guns - the second test was a chrome lined LMT piston gun - both failed around the same round count). Granted this is a sample size of one and isn't scientific, it is interesting. I've always heard that chrome lined barrels outlast nitride barrels which is why I found this test interesting.
BallisticHarmony
10-19-16, 11:43
Does it say something about nitride barrels vs. chrome lined since the barrel didn't blow? Or do you think it's not relevant because of the breaks that were taken to clear stoppages and stuck casings? To me this is less about DI vs. piston and more about chrome lined vs. nitride because the first two tests (both chrome lined guns - the second test was a chrome lined LMT piston gun - both failed around the same round count). Granted this is a sample size of one and isn't scientific, it is interesting. I've always heard that chrome lined barrels outlast nitride barrels which is why I found this test interesting.
Chrome-lined vs nitrided barrel life is in relation to their accuracy potential, not when they will explode. It doesn't matter what you line the inside of a barrel with, it will not save it during high-volume continuous fire. Those are two completely separate issues
So what does the full auto vs semi performance indicate? Bolt bounce?
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Chrome-lined vs nitrided barrel life is in relation to their accuracy potential, not when they will explode. It doesn't matter what you line the inside of a barrel with, it will not save it during high-volume continuous fire. Those are two completely separate issues
Then why do you suppose the nitrided barrel lasted 4 times longer than both chrome lined barrels? (And still never failed).
I would like to see it tested with quality ammo like xm193. I wonder if some underpowered rounds could have caused a malfunction or even the laquer coating they put on the casing.
Then why do you suppose the nitrided barrel lasted 4 times longer than both chrome lined barrels? (And still never failed).
Barrel profile.
And it still had all the rifling stripped from the bore.
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Mrgunsngear
10-19-16, 20:03
Then why do you suppose the nitrided barrel lasted 4 times longer than both chrome lined barrels? (And still never failed).
Hopefully in the coming months I'll be able to more definitively answer this. I'll be doing a burndown video with IDENTICAL barrels; one will have CL, one will be nitrided. Stay tuned :D
Nocalsocal
10-19-16, 20:31
Mrguns, I can't wait for the video comparison. Long time subscriber to your channel btw. Although my wife has me turn down the sound. She thinks you need a lozenge, lol!
Didn't IV8888 have a nitrided barrel melt in the first DI AR meltdown video? And I believe it was a Faxon. In this latest video I wonder if the FCG was the problem?
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Then why do you suppose the nitrided barrel lasted 4 times longer than both chrome lined barrels? (And still never failed).
Because surface treatments have no affect on the strength of the base barrel material.
Barrel life under continuous full auto fire is a function of what material it is made from and how thick it is.
Because surface treatments have no affect on the strength of the base barrel material.
Barrel life under continuous full auto fire is a function of what material it is made from and how thick it is.
So a nitrided barrel will wear the same as a non nitrided barrel? So it's for corrosion resistance and not wear longevity then? I was unaware of that.
Barrel profile.
And it still had all the rifling stripped from the bore.
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The POF barrel had all of its rifling stripped from the bore? I didn't hear him say that in the video.
The POF barrel had all of its rifling stripped from the bore? I didn't hear him say that in the video.
Then you didn't watch it all. They even showed a picture from the muzzle end. It was a smoothbore by the end of the test.
Then you didn't watch it all. They even showed a picture from the muzzle end. It was a smoothbore by the end of the test.
He didn't say it had all of its rifling stripped from the bore or was totally smooth bore. He said it still had relatively strong rifling in the bore except at the ends of the rifle (the throat and muzzle). Pretty impressive when you consider the others failed at almost 2000 rounds before this one did.
Hopefully in the coming months I'll be able to more definitively answer this. I'll be doing a burndown video with IDENTICAL barrels; one will have CL, one will be nitrided. Stay tuned :D
Marketing aside, doesn't the subject rifle have POF's huge barrel nut that serves as a heat sink? This could contribute to the longevity?
He didn't say it had all of its rifling stripped from the bore or was totally smooth bore. He said it still had relatively strong rifling in the bore except at the ends of the rifle (the throat and muzzle). Pretty impressive when you consider the others failed at almost 2000 rounds before this one did.
The other barrels exhibited similar barrel wear. That's how barrels wear, at the throat and muzzle. And in those areas there was no rifling at all. And as stated, different barrel steels, different profiles in the other tests. It's apples to oranges and proves nothing, good or bad, about nitride or chrome lining. The barrel didn't fail because it was a heavy profile, not because it was nitrided.
Because of the previous tests, everyone is focused on the barrel. To me, it did exactly what I expected. No surprises there and quite frankly, no big deal. The rate of fire and heat destroyed the bore. And the heavy profile maintained barrel integrity. Those are very predictable results.
And in my mind, the gun failed SOONER than the other guns because reliability fell apart relatively quickly. Why that happened is much more interesting to me.
QuickStrike
10-20-16, 10:13
Not very impressed by the reliabilty. IIRC there were very few/no malfs in the video where they tested the colt to destruction.
That kind of performance is far more useful to me.
From the title I thought they maybe fixed their rifle.... turns out not so much.
556BlackRifle
10-20-16, 10:59
Not very impressed by the reliabilty. IIRC there were very few/no malfs in the video where they tested the colt to destruction.
That kind of performance is far more useful to me.
Here's a link to two Colt tests. Link (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/02/m4-carbine-torture-test/) M4 and M4A1. Old stuff but still fun to watch.
I just watched the original video he did again (the DI AR) and just realized that he was running a stainless steel barrel on the first test. Doesn't SS not handle extreme heat as well as 4150 CMV barrels? So I would have to assume if he was using the same or similar barrel that the LMT had (4150 CMV CHF) that the DI AR would have lasted MUCH longer. I would really like to see the same test again with the same barrel that the LMT piston AR had. I think doing a destructive test of a SS barrel and a CMV is apples to oranges.
GiddyHitch
10-21-16, 17:53
Hopefully in the coming months I'll be able to more definitively answer this. I'll be doing a burndown video with IDENTICAL barrels; one will have CL, one will be nitrided. Stay tuned :D
This is interesting for entertainment purposes but will be more illustrative of the barrel metallurgy and profile than the surface treatments as the elevated temperatures soften the barrel material and wreak all sorts of havoc (much to our amusement assuredly). To illustrate the differences in surface treatments, an accelerated but realistic firing schedule (akin to how the automotive industry tests car durability) would be most instructive. Something like 200rd strings shot semi-auto with sufficient cool down periods between strings off the top of my head. Unfortunately, you might need to shoot in excess of 30k rounds per gun to differentiate a performance difference. Or not, if the nitride marketing material is to be believed (and I hope it can be, speaking as the owner of two QPQ guns).
I just watched the original video he did again (the DI AR) and just realized that he was running a stainless steel barrel on the first test. Doesn't SS not handle extreme heat as well as 4150 CMV barrels? So I would have to assume if he was using the same or similar barrel that the LMT had (4150 CMV CHF) that the DI AR would have lasted MUCH longer. I would really like to see the same test again with the same barrel that the LMT piston AR had. I think doing a destructive test of a SS barrel and a CMV is apples to oranges.
Correct.
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