View Full Version : Looking for a duty (LEO) 1-4 scope
millerranch
10-22-16, 20:59
So I've read tons of reviews, articles, and watched lots of videos. I've narrowed my search down to either the Nightforce 1-4 or the Meopta ZD 1-4. Which one would YOU choose and why?
Boba Fett v2
10-22-16, 23:33
Nightforce 1-4x. I like the FC-3G reticle. It's very rugged/durable and fairly compact. Made in USA. Your LEO buddies will be fist bumping you for it.
Coal Dragger
10-23-16, 03:21
Get the Nightforce with the FC-3G. For the already stated reasons. Put it in a Nightforce Uni-Mount. Enjoy good glass, a useful reticle, very forgiving eye box, and extreme durability.
Meopta ZD, hands down.
I have both scopes, the Meopta has "daylight bright" illumination and is, at least equally rugged to the NF.
I also prefer their minimalist reticle.
Can't speak for the Nightforce, but I have the Meopta ZD and Steiner P4xi. Both are daylight bright, uncluttered reticle, I would the edge to Meopta on glass clarity.
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Nightforce, but also take a look at the Trijicon Accupower 1-4X, as well as the Steiner M5Xi.
I have the NF1-4, I prefer the FC2, I've also used the FC3G which is fine.
I also have the Steiner P4XI, love it glass is very nice daytime bright.
I've also had the MEOPTA ZD also a nice daytime bright scope.
You can't go wrong with any of them. But for the features and price you can't beat the Steiner.
Get from DSG arms with LEO discount.
I use them or have used them on duty/SWAT.
millerranch
10-24-16, 22:24
Thanks for the help. I called nightforce. They were 3 months out. Meopta was 60 days behind. So I searched for the steiners. Botach had the 1-4 with throw lever for 479. No tax. So I ordered it today. I have to say the guy at nightforce really tried to get me fixed up. Great guy and company. I will get a nightforce soon. But I have a midrange carbine class coming up with Frank Proctor so I couldn't wait. Can't wait to get the Steiner and try it out. Thanks again!
Please update us with your impressions. It's on my list of wants.
KeithTexas
10-27-16, 22:48
Thanks for the help. I called nightforce. They were 3 months out. Meopta was 60 days behind. So I searched for the steiners. Botach had the 1-4 with throw lever for 479. No tax. So I ordered it today. I have to say the guy at nightforce really tried to get me fixed up. Great guy and company. I will get a nightforce soon. But I have a midrange carbine class coming up with Frank Proctor so I couldn't wait. Can't wait to get the Steiner and try it out. Thanks again!
Yes, keep us updated. I have ordered from Botach and while I did eventually get the product, it was a few weeks and a convoluted handling and tracking route.
Boba Fett v2
10-28-16, 11:22
I know you've already made the decision, but any reason you didn't consider any of the 1-6x options? I recently picked up a Leupy Mark 6 1-6x CMR-W 5.56 from another member here and it's one of the best LPVOs I've had the pleasure of owning.
I hope your Steiner works out for you. I had to send mine back to DSG, a broken seal had partially occluded the FOV. This has occured more than once according to various reviews. Great company, but their American stuff is nowhere near as good as their German-made optics. I went with the Accu-Power while I save for a Nightforce. It's a great value and falls in between Vortex and NF cash-wise.
BTW: DSG was $469 for the P4xi at LE/MIL discount and arrives in 2-3 days. Always price there first. With Botach, you might be retired before an item shows up!
A class might need somethig more but I sold my Nightforce 1-4 after getting a Trijicon 1-4 with the green triangle. As a general purpose duty rifle in a rural setting I felt it was a better fit for my needs. FWIW I still have NightForce on my custom Remington 700 and a 2.5-10 on my PredatAR so am all about NightForce, just not for that application.
I hope your Steiner works out for you. I had to send mine back to DSG, a broken seal had partially occluded the FOV. This has occured more than once according to various reviews. Great company, but their American stuff is nowhere near as good as their German-made optics. I went with the Accu-Power while I save for a Nightforce. It's a great value and falls in between Vortex and NF cash-wise.
BTW: DSG was $469 for the P4xi at LE/MIL discount and arrives in 2-3 days. Always price there first. With Botach, you might be retired before an item shows up!
Every time I get ready to pull the trigger on the P4xi, I read something like this. The general consensus seems to be that the glass is super nice for the price range, good reticle, forgiving eye box, etc. but quality control seems to be hit or miss. The guys that have had no problems with theirs seem to love them, but I have seen quite a few posts like this where there were problems right out of the box.
Furbyballer
10-31-16, 08:30
Every time I get ready to pull the trigger on the P4xi, I read something like this. The general consensus seems to be that the glass is super nice for the price range, good reticle, forgiving eye box, etc. but quality control seems to be hit or miss. The guys that have had no problems with theirs seem to love them, but I have seen quite a few posts like this where there were problems right out of the box.
Mine should arrive sometime this week. Hopefully I wont have any of these problems. I really want to put it up against my USO 1-4 which has been my standard for daylight bright LPV scopes.
Mine should arrive sometime this week. Hopefully I wont have any of these problems. I really want to put it up against my USO 1-4 which has been my standard for daylight bright LPV scopes.
Keep us posted.
Mine should arrive sometime this week. Hopefully I wont have any of these problems. I really want to put it up against my USO 1-4 which has been my standard for daylight bright LPV scopes.
How do you like the USO, Ive always wanted to try one, compared to say a NF 1-4?
Furbyballer
10-31-16, 09:56
How do you like the USO, Ive always wanted to try one, compared to say a NF 1-4?
Its all about what you value the most. I've owned both and both are great options. However, I do not prefer BDC and SFP. Both scopes are wonderfully compact and durable. The nightforce has warmer glass, and by that I mean it had better color variations, but I would say the clarity between both of them was the same. Because of this though, the cooler image was much darker at night than the nightforce. The nightforce is lighter by about 3 oz and comes with a cat tail. The illumination is not daylight bright on the nightforce. So for me, the USO ticked all my boxes: first ffp, mil/mil, daylight bright red dot that doesn't change size, compact, durable, light enough.
I continue to be impressed with the 1-4x24 Accupower with MOA reticle. Not as bright as an RDS but very clear 1x, easy adjustments, nice focus ring.
I'd like to get a NF 1-4x sometime, I like my 2.5-10x NFs ALOT.
Steiner seems to have a lot going for it, but I rarely beta-test, maybe in 6-12 months it'll be worth it for me to try out. Keep us updated plz.
I continue to be impressed with the 1-4x24 Accupower with MOA reticle. Not as bright as an RDS but very clear 1x, easy adjustments, nice focus ring.
I'd like to get a NF 1-4x sometime, I like my 2.5-10x NFs ALOT.
Steiner seems to have a lot going for it, but I rarely beta-test, maybe in 6-12 months it'll be worth it for me to try out. Keep us updated plz.
I had an Accupower with green segmented circle reticle. I sold it and planned to buy the same reticle but in red. It never happened. They are great scopes as with most Trijicon products.
I'm also very happy with my Accupoint (red MOA reticle).
I was between the P4Xi and the Accupoint when I was buying. I'm in the same boat as you. I have read some questionable QC issues with the US made Steiner P4Xi. We'll see what the reports are in a year or two. If they're good, I might try one out. In the meantime, I am extremely happy with my Trijicon.
I continue to be impressed with the 1-4x24 Accupower with MOA reticle. Not as bright as an RDS but very clear 1x, easy adjustments, nice focus ring.
I'd like to get a NF 1-4x sometime, I like my 2.5-10x NFs ALOT.
Steiner seems to have a lot going for it, but I rarely beta-test, maybe in 6-12 months it'll be worth it for me to try out. Keep us updated plz.
fallenromeo
11-01-16, 13:31
I got my P4Xi and I love it. Very clear, very bright, good for the price. Maybe I am an outlier here, but I ordered mine from botach just before a holiday weekend. It shipped the next week after the holiday and I had it the next day. Maybe I just got lucky though, not sure. It was my first purchase from them
I had an Accupower with green segmented circle reticle. I sold it and planned to buy the same reticle but in red. It never happened. They are great scopes as with most Trijicon products.When I bought mine, the first scope they sent was obviously a demo scope and they had put the BDC green into the MOA green scope box. I considered keeping it but in the end returned it for the MOA reticle.
Quick comparison question -
I'm being presented with an attractive deal on an NF 1-4 with a discontinued reticle (MRL? Basically a mil reticle) and KAC mount for 1k.
Now, its used, but given the NF reputation, I'm not worried about mileage.
Other thoughts were a brand new Trijicon Accupower with a QD mount, or even going a bit more economical and doing a Viper.
This will be going on a patrol rifle. Currently running an MRO in a Larue mount, but I have astigmatism, and would like to move to an etched reticle.
Good bet, or what? Maybe save for the 1-6 market?
I had the mil reticle for a hot minute, I thought it sucked for day use moving/shooting cqb stuff.
With it not being daytime bright the reticle was to fine to pick up quick.
Ymmv.
I've got the FC2, and have had the FC3G, either of those would be a much better choice for duty use.
I use mine on duty/SWAT.
FWIW I have seen similar deals present themselves in various classifieds with the fc2 and fc3g from time to time.
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Also FWIW I just picked up a NF 1-4 with FC2 reticle in a Bobro mount for $1k shipped.
I had the mil reticle for a hot minute, I thought it sucked for day use moving/shooting cqb stuff.
With it not being daytime bright the reticle was to fine to pick up quick.
Ymmv.
I've got the FC2, and have had the FC3G, either of those would be a much better choice for duty use.
I use mine on duty/SWAT.
If my department would ever get out of the stone age, we might be able to use variable optics, but for now we are lucky to be able to use RDOs. Years ago I had tried getting them to bless off on a trijicon 1-4 with the triangle, but kept running into the excuse that only the marksman element was authorized magnified optics. No reason of course could be given as to why.
I know your pain, I had to fight getting Noveske, KAC, and Daniel Defense on the approved rifle list. They had no problems with Olympic, Stag,S&W, etc.
Ive been fighting to switch or give the option on going with a 9mm Glock, instead of the to big for 90% of the officers Glock 21.
This was before my shooting where I had 2 malfunctions on 2 different magazines, still would not give the option on a 9mm :nono:
Furbyballer
11-07-16, 07:52
Was able to get my p4xi 1-4 steiner out this weekend on my new 12.5 build and it was excellent. The red dot illumination blew me away, the glass is crystal clear, and the eyebox was very good. Probably put 300 rounds though it at various distances from 25-200 yds yesterday.
We just got a P4xi and I checked it out over the weekend
VERY nice
aclawrence
11-09-16, 14:12
Was there a discount code for the Steiner at Botach? I looked last night and it was 575$ I think.
I know your pain, I had to fight getting Noveske, KAC, and Daniel Defense on the approved rifle list. They had no problems with Olympic, Stag,S&W, etc.
Ive been fighting to switch or give the option on going with a 9mm Glock, instead of the to big for 90% of the officers Glock 21.
This was before my shooting where I had 2 malfunctions on 2 different magazines, still would not give the option on a 9mm :nono:
I'm glad someone else feels my pain! :-D
I just went and looked at the Steiner on Botach, $479. I was looking at the Meopta but I may have to get the Steiner because of the cost savings.
I just had this exact conversation with my Chief the other day, he's convinced .45 is the best. I tried to talk to him about 9mm, mag capacity, shot placement, less recoil, etc, he just can't grasp it, I'm going to keep trying though.
I just had this exact conversation with my Chief the other day, he's convinced .45 is the best. I tried to talk to him about 9mm, mag capacity, shot placement, less recoil, etc, he just can't grasp it, I'm going to keep trying though.
Good luck, also tell him it would be cheaper ammo wise.
Vortex PST 1-4 is under $400 through promotive.
gunnerblue
11-10-16, 21:11
We just got a P4xi and I checked it out over the weekend
VERY nice
That's good to hear. I've been looking at this model to replace the Meopta ZD (unless it's illuminated, I have a hard time finding the smallish reticle).
Anyone use the Trijicon accupoint series? I like the triangular reticle, but its going on a graveyard duty rifle, so low/no light performance is paramount.
Go Accupower if your set on Trijicon.
Singlestack Wonder
11-17-16, 19:33
Looking closely at the P4XI and it looks like the company that now owns Steiner and Burris took a Burris MTAC and put a Steiner reticle and LED emitter in it.
Go Accupower if your set on Trijicon.
Why aren't these more popular? Doesn't seem like many folks are running them
The only reason I can think of its not daytime bright.
So many LPV options out there. I'm in the market as well. I have a dept issued M4 with a RDS. But I want to also have another rifle(my "recce" build) in the cruiser with me that will help with target ID and make a more accurate shot if need be.
Budget is a concern so the Steiner PX4i seems the best bang for the buck. But the Vortex viper PST, Sig tango 4 , and trijicon accupower are tempting as well. But not sure if their lack of daylight illumination is a deal breaker. And just not enough reviews of the Sig yet.
A true 1x would be nice but isn't a major factor for the role I have slated for this setup. So the leupold mk4 vxr firedot is in the mix as well. They're small and light too.
The dark horse for me in all this is the Burris 1-5 XTR II. Great reviews and I like the CQ mil reticle and its daylight bright. Only thing I don't like is the exposed turrets. And it's about $150 more than what I can get a Steiner, Vortex, or Sig for.
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aclawrence
11-18-16, 11:14
It seems like there are several people in the same boat waiting to hear any kind of review on the Steiners. This scope has my interest as well.
Furbyballer
11-18-16, 14:26
The steiner is the best performance available for the money. Period. right now. It has replaced my accupower. They both offer BDC reticles, but the steiner is lighter, the illumination is brighter, and the glass is outstanding. I am using my steiner p4xi more than my NF 1-4, accupower 1-4, and us optics 1-4.
aclawrence
11-18-16, 15:02
Cool. Thanks for the positive feedback. I've been swaying back and forth between and rds and a lpv scope. I'm still leaning towards a scope and the Steiner is probably my top choice right now. Where did you buy your Steiner from?
Go Accupower if your set on Trijicon.
Well, I won't necessarily say I'm set on Trijicon, but they seem to occupy a nice middleground regarding price and quality. I wasn't aware they aren't daytime bright - thought they were.
For duty, I need either a 1-4 or a 1-6 with capped turrets, daytime bright illumination, and a true 1X. If possible, I'd like to stay under $1000, so that's why the Accupower was so attractive - company with a great reputation, mid-range scope with nice glass with a good LEO deal at DSG.
Seems like it may be more worthwhile to jump up to the $1100-1300 range and get something like a Steiner T5xi or the Razor HD II. Also looking at the P4xi, interested in hearing the opinions of those using them regarding the performance vs. some of the upper-end scopes - is it akin to something like the Strike Eagle, or a true can't-believe-the-value kind of deal?
I don't shoot toward the sun, but I do shoot in brighg daylight with the Trijicon Accupower and it's illumination is quite visible. I'm not great at taking reticle photos, but I try to post one here next time I'm out.
gunnerblue
11-19-16, 17:35
Well, I won't necessarily say I'm set on Trijicon, but they seem to occupy a nice middleground regarding price and quality. I wasn't aware they aren't daytime bright - thought they were.
For duty, I need either a 1-4 or a 1-6 with capped turrets, daytime bright illumination, and a true 1X. If possible, I'd like to stay under $1000, so that's why the Accupower was so attractive - company with a great reputation, mid-range scope with nice glass with a good LEO deal at DSG.
Seems like it may be more worthwhile to jump up to the $1100-1300 range and get something like a Steiner T5xi or the Razor HD II. Also looking at the P4xi, interested in hearing the opinions of those using them regarding the performance vs. some of the upper-end scopes - is it akin to something like the Strike Eagle, or a true can't-believe-the-value kind of deal?
Take a look at the Meopta ZD 1-4x22. True 1x and definitely daytime bright. Very clear glass as well. I bought one for the same reasons that you listed and my only complaint is that the reticle can be hard to pick up when not illuminated. It's very basic and a little in the small side, IMO
Take a look at the Meopta ZD 1-4x22. True 1x and definitely daytime bright. Very clear glass as well. I bought one for the same reasons that you listed and my only complaint is that the reticle can be hard to pick up when not illuminated. It's very basic and a little in the small side, IMO
I'm sure it's a great scope but my issue with it is it's price. Places sell them new for $900+. I haven't seen a used ZD for sale, not the original KDot, in a while. And I'm sure it was still north of what I could get the Steiner Px4i for. Without comparing the two side by side, they seem very close feature/glass wise, so it doesn't seem worth to pay hundreds more for the meopta ZD.
I had a KDot 1-4 years ago which I sold. It was a good scope but it was ridiculously long. No bdc drops like the newer reticle in the ZD, but they can be found used, for prices more comparable to all the scopes being discussed.
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I have the ZD and P4xi. The Meopta glass is a little clearer on 4x to me. I agree with gunner the ZD reticle can be hard to quickly pick up w/o illumination on. I do like that with illumination turned off on the P4 you get a #4 style reticle for a little more precision.
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How are we defining "daytime bright"? Is it that any form of daylight washes the illumation out completely? Or just that the illumination is dim but visible in daylight?
For me, if I work overtime during a non-vampire shift, I definitely want a visible illuminated reticle, but it seems like if I can at least track the reticle through shadow or dark surfaces, then it's bright enough.
The meopta,Steiner, and vortex are all in my opinion capable of Aimpoint bright.
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I can get you new Steiner P4s for 500 shipped
If you're wondering if you truly need a daylight bright reticle, here is a worthwhile read by a guy who knows a thing or two:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?146858-Getting-over-the-need-for-daylight-bright-illumination-in-low-powered-variables
Personally, I like the Vortex 1-4; I've been using it for a couple years now, without issue.
dwhitehorne
12-06-16, 10:14
I rarely use the illumination on my work rifle (VX-R) but the firedot does help me when shooting around the different positions of a step barricade. It really helps me when shooting from my support shoulder when eye relief is not ideal. David
Of the two you mentioned I'd definitely choose the nightforce.
With that being said I'd choose a mk6 leupold over the NF.
Tough to go wrong with either though!
Since the Steiner P4x is being discussed, can somebody explain to me why their 5x T5x is priced nearly 3x as much? Both are listed in their tactical line.
I'm new to magnified optics.
Team member has the T5x and I stumbled upon the 4x and at the price point it's very tempting to toss on another upper and see if it's capable for duty use.
I decided I wanted to try out the LPV for sort of an SPR/DMR sort of setup. My department issues Colt 16" rifles to all officers with an aimpoint and surefire light. The upside is they are very simple, durable, and easy to use. They are great for close up fast work. You can check zero by simple check of the cowitness with the irons. ID of a target at distance isn't great.
I'm poor and have an angry wife who likes to keep all the money for herself, so I decided to go with the Burris XTR II 1-5. Daylight bright, supposedly decent optics, but heavy. Since my car carries it more than I do, it's not a huge deal. Got it in a few days ago but haven't taken it out of the box yet. Came with a mount and a micro red dot to mount on top for close in stuff (although I've tried that with ACOGs in the past and wasn't a fan). Looking forward to the freezing weather to leave so I can go to the range and try it out. Im cautiously hopeful.
Voodoo_Man
12-17-16, 16:14
I didn't see if anyone posted this yet, but Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x is a good budget "go to" LE patrol rifle optic.
Check out my review - http://www.vdmsr.com/2013/10/leupold-vx-r-patrol-125-4x20-firedot-on.html - I'd recommend considering it before others.
ExplorinInTheWoods
12-22-16, 08:00
TR24 all day green triangle
I posted this on another site and thought it was relevant here.
Alright, I didn't do as much shooting as I would have liked to have. Just shot prone at 100 and 200, then some kneeling at 200.
I shot 3 different rifles, but the two optic i was tested were mounted on a 16" colt and a 20" BCM upper on a Franken lower. Then a commando just to resight everything after I took it apart to inspect and clean everything.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a307/jlatzke/20161223_122958_zpsmgboqkh2.jpg
For my purposes they were close enough.
I tried the Steiner first. Capped turrets, MOA adjustments, mushy but they are set it and forget it. Clicks don't have to be awesomely defined clicks as long as they stay put. The reticle was nice, clean and simple. The dot was bright, but not quite as bright as an aimpoint in the daylight. The reticle was a little thick. I think past 300, it will be hard to see smaller targets behind it. I'll stretch it out later. It zeroed quickly with no drama.
The glass was about the same as the XTR, but one less X and a lot lighter. On a patrol carbine, I think the size and weight are perfect. The eye relief was a little less forgiving than the Burris surprisingly, but still useable. It is no aimpoint, though. True 1x on the low end, though. Wish I had time to do some close in drills to see how I did.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a307/jlatzke/20161223_133732_zpsacetgo5u.jpg
My phone camera made the dot look yellow. It's not. It's red. Even with a dead battery, I think this would be easy to use.
The Burris was harder to zero. It has a zero stop and mil turrets, which I thought odd sind it had a BDC reticle. It's not a "dialing" scope. It in no way detracted from the scope. The turrets were tight, crisp, and low profile. On a different type of scope they would have been nice, but here they're kind of wasted. Capped would be better IMHO, but it's their scope. Again, it didn't detract from it in any way except initial zeroing because of the zero stop. After that, I didn't screw with them again.
The glass was very good, and the reticle was a little easier to shoot small groups with. The horseshoe-dot was actually easier to use than I thought it would be. The illumination was super bright. The center dot is the 100 yard zero, a very small dot under it for 200, and a larger dot under those for 300. Below those will look familiar to anyone who has used an ACOG. The lines are marked for their corresponding range.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a307/jlatzke/20161223_125856_zps4uheexrj.jpg
The illumination is great (looks yellow in the pic again) but unlike the crosshairs on the Steiner, nothing draws your eye to the center (if that makes sense). If the illumination is off, it's much harder to pick up the reticle. The eye box was a little more forgiving, but the difference wasn't huge. I think it would be fine in use if you're used to it.
I didn't shoot past 200 with either to see how the BDC's lined up down range. I plan on doing that soon. I didn't go inside the shoot house or do any close up drills. I think the huge bright reticle of the Burris would be easy to spot, but it's weight doesn't lend itself to a light and nimble carbine. On the A4 type, it seemed fine. On the carbine, it was noticeable.
Between the two, for a patrol carbine, I think the Steiner wins if it holds zero over time and doesn't have battery issues crop up. Put the super bright donut around the center dot and it's chicken dinner. I hope it holds up well. I'll keep wringing it out to see how it goes. It looks promising. I'm reluctant to toss it around on the ground like I did my aimpoint because I paid out of pocket for it.
I'll report back when I've done some real shooting, but I had to do work stuff, which is rude of my bosses to expect.
The Steiner is the first reticle pic?
Yes. The crosshairs with dot is the Steiner. The Horseshoe is the Burris.
I went with the Trijicon Accupower in November of 2015 and I love it. The segmented circle is fast up close like the EoTech I came from and the BDC is right on. It's been beat up pretty good, idiots knocking it over at the range, and it got hit good when a turd rammed my car and my rifle flew out of its case. Checked zero and it was still right on. Love that the turrets are capped and 1/4 MOA. Even at night, if I had enough ambient light, the reticle is thick enough to see, and with my rifle light it was never a problem.
What zero & bullet weight does the BDC on the Steiner need to be functional?
SpeedRacer
01-11-17, 08:33
What zero & bullet weight does the BDC on the Steiner need to be functional?
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