View Full Version : LWRC IC (SPR/A5) vs. PWS Mk 1 MOD 2
chris.aka.bc
11-02-16, 20:31
So to give sme background im a Marine Corps vet. Standing 6ft 4 and 250 lbs. I currently have a franken rifle i built that is DI and want to buy a survival/sthf/supressor friendly piston gun. Ive heard great things about both of these companies as well as their products. Ive also found these particualr models for around 2k each give or take $100. So im wondering whats the best rifle for my buck. I want something that wi last and be accurate enough by Marine Corps standards. Im considering the 14.5 in or 16 in so input on that will be accepted as well. I know enough about M16 to hit a 9/10 headshots with my service rifle at 500 yds (or was it meters, also that cpuld of been pit love who knows).
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want to buy a survival/sthf/supressor friendly piston gun.
i'd stick with "DI", and get a good rifle and a decent adjustable gas block.
chris.aka.bc
11-02-16, 20:44
i'd stick with "DI", and get a good rifle and a decent adjustable gas block.
Well im all up for learning whats your views on Di Vs Piston?
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SamuelBLong
11-02-16, 21:42
Well im all up for learning whats your views on Di Vs Piston?
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A piston driven system makes sense under a few conditions:
1) 10.5" Barrel or Shorter
2) Suppressed
3) Full Auto / High ROF
If you're not meeting those conditions, you're going to be carrying increased weight, more expense and less parts compatibility vs a DI gun.
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chris.aka.bc
11-02-16, 22:02
A piston driven system makes sense under a few conditions:
1) 10.5" Barrel or Shorter
2) Suppressed
3) Full Auto / High ROF
If you're not meeting those conditions, you're going to be carrying increased weight, more expense and less parts compatibility vs a DI gun.
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Supressed is the goal. In a perfect world i would snag a HK415A5 but its LE/MIL
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Well im all up for learning whats your views on Di Vs Piston?
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which has seen constant use, testing, and development in over 60 years?
which has easily found replacement parts?
the AR already has a piston, see Eugene Stoner's patent, https://www.google.com/patents/US2951424
It is a principal object of this invention to utilize the basic parts of an automatic rifle mechanism such as the bolt and bolt carrier to perform a double function. This double function consists of the bolts primary function to lock the breach against the pressure of firing, and secondarily, to act as a stationary piston to actuate the automatic rifle mechanism. The primary function of the bolt carrier is to lock and unlock the bolt by rotating it and to carry it back and forth in the receiver. The secondary function of the bolt carrier is to act as a movable cylinder to actuate the automatic rifle mechanism. By having the bolt carrier act as a movable cylinder and the bolt act as a stationary piston, the need for a conventional gas cylinder, piston and actuating rod assembly is eliminated.
A piston driven system makes sense under a few conditions:
1) 10.5" Barrel or Shorter
2) Suppressed
3) Full Auto / High ROF
If you're not meeting those conditions, you're going to be carrying increased weight, more expense and less parts compatibility vs a DI gun.
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you know standard AR's work absolutely fine even when all of those conditions are in play?
A piston driven system makes sense under a few conditions:
1) 10.5" Barrel or Shorter
2) Suppressed
3) Full Auto / High ROF
If you're not meeting those conditions, you're going to be carrying increased weight, more expense and less parts compatibility vs a DI gun.
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The suppressed scenario is really only a benefit for piston guns if they include a switchable gas block and the suppressor use is mixed.
A dedicated suppressed DI gun can be setup to run like a top.
A DI gun can also be setup for mixed suppressed use with a switchable gas block, switchable carrier or a simple heavy buffer swap.
In short, DI makes a fine SHTF weapon.
chris.aka.bc
11-02-16, 23:16
Ive been hearing mentioning of switchable gas blocks which is somethibg i seriously never considered till now. Well im listening to options.
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Ive been hearing mentioning of switchable gas blocks which is somethibg i seriously never considered till now. Well im listening to options.
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there are a few options, the POF dictator, odin works, noveske switch block, and others that i'm forgetting
chris.aka.bc
11-02-16, 23:54
there are a few options, the POF dictator, odin works, noveske switch block, and others that i'm forgetting
Well im always up for a interesting build. And ive been wanting a Daniel Defense rifle. Guess its time for others builds and options
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All these posts and no one actually posted an answer even relative the question. So how about info from an actual owner and user.
I can't speak to the mod 2, I've only held one, never shot one, but the mod1 is an outstanding rifle. By far my favorite rifle I own. I've haven't experienced a KAC or a hodge rifle yet, but every other brand and configuration I've shot so far, I've yet to find one that makes me want one (556 cal.) over a mod1.
Never have to scrape carbon. It takes me longer to split the rifle than to clean it. Trigger area is always nice and clean. I don't exactly enjoy cleaning, so any reduction there for me is a plus. Super nice just to come home and put it away. Not getting oil sprayed around is nice to. It's just cleaner all around. Dust and garbage doesn't stick to the carrier or bolt either since it doesn't have to be wet to work.
Far as accuracy
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161103/76c453312823a79dcb7d54c3e0d3f6e3.jpg
209 yards. Those are 1" squares. 75 gr hpbt. Hpr or hornady looks like that out of my pws mk116 mod 1. It shoots 50 gr tipped varmint moa or less. Rifle also eats wolf like it's going out of style. Has an ssa-e trigger.
Every new female shooter that's been behind it in prone has rung an 8" gong at 250 yards within first or second shot. I'm talking new, never shot guns, in the prone, off a bipod with just a little instruction.
Can't speak to lwrc. I hear they are very nice, but I have No experince with them. But I will say that you can buy a Pws mark 1 with confidence.
The pistol Pws guns are super nice too. They run like sewing machines, really loud blasty little sewing machines.
The gas adjustment is simple and works very well. Need more, open it up, need less, dial down.
Biggest down side is cost. They aren't cheap rifles, but to be fair, they don't shoot like cheap rifles either. Do you need one, of course not. Lots of things in life a guy doesn't need. But after shooting a mod 1, I didn't need one, wanted one.
Don't let the haters discourage you. The good DI rifles are awesome, but so is this long stroke piston rifle.
That mod 1 has brought me more enjoyment than all of my other rifles combined. It's taught newbies to be great shooters in short order. Follow up shots are super fast.
Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
All these posts and no one actually posted an answer even relative the question. So how about info from an actual owner and user.
I can't speak to the mod 2, I've only held one, never shot one, but the mod1 is an outstanding rifle. By far my favorite rifle I own. I've haven't experienced a KAC or a hodge rifle yet, but every other brand and configuration I've shot so far, I've yet to find one that makes me want one (556 cal.) over a mod1.
Never have to scrape carbon. It takes me longer to split the rifle than to clean it. Trigger area is always nice and clean. I don't exactly enjoy cleaning, so any reduction there for me is a plus. Super nice just to come home and put it away. Not getting oil sprayed around is nice to. It's just cleaner all around. Dust and garbage doesn't stick to the carrier or bolt either since it doesn't have to be wet to work.
Far as accuracy
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161103/76c453312823a79dcb7d54c3e0d3f6e3.jpg
209 yards. Those are 1" squares. 75 gr hpbt. Hpr or hornady looks like that out of my pws mk116 mod 1. It shoots 50 gr tipped varmint moa or less. Rifle also eats wolf like it's going out of style. Has an ssa-e trigger.
Every new female shooter that's been behind it in prone has rung an 8" gong at 250 yards within first or second shot. I'm talking new, never shot guns, in the prone, off a bipod with just a little instruction.
Can't speak to lwrc. I hear they are very nice, but I have No experince with them. But I will say that you can buy a Pws mark 1 with confidence.
The pistol Pws guns are super nice too. They run like sewing machines, really loud blasty little sewing machines.
The gas adjustment is simple and works very well. Need more, open it up, need less, dial down.
Biggest down side is cost. They aren't cheap rifles, but to be fair, they don't shoot like cheap rifles either. Do you need one, of course not. Lots of things in life a guy doesn't need. But after shooting a mod 1, I didn't need one, wanted one.
Don't let the haters discourage you. The good DI rifles are awesome, but so is this long stroke piston rifle.
That mod 1 has brought me more enjoyment than all of my other rifles combined. It's taught newbies to be great shooters in short order. Follow up shots are super fast.
Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
People did post answers that pertain to the question asked by the OP, There are never just 2 choices, and any benefit gained by going with either of the 2 rifles mentioned can easily be had on a standard AR15. It would be no different than if he asked about colt or BCM, and people told him to check out Daniel Defense.
You don't need to scrape the carbon off the bolts tail, either
I have an LWRC, albeit an M6A2. Everything cbx said about the PWS applies to my rifle. Beautifully made, super easy cleanup. I've put 500 rounds through it in a single range session before (all damned day), and had no malfs. Reliability has been 100% with PMAGs being used exclusively.
The price seems excessive, until you figure it came factory with Troy sights, free float rail, and magpul & VLTOR furniture. The piston will make it more expensive than a comparably equipped DI gun however.
The down side is weight, and more recoil. The recoil is nothing like my .308, but it is noticeably more than a DGI gun. The weight is very noticeable though.
Comes down to preference, really. I own both piston and DI rifles, and I like them both. The PWS has a long stroke piston, while the LWRC uses a short stroke. I've heard the PWS is softer recoiling due to this, but I haven't confirmed it.
Let me know if you have questions.
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chris.aka.bc
11-03-16, 20:12
I have an LWRC, albeit an M6A2. Everything cbx said about the PWS applies to my rifle. Beautifully made, super easy cleanup. I've put 500 rounds through it in a single range session before (all damned day), and had no malfs. Reliability has been 100% with PMAGs being used exclusively.
The price seems excessive, until you figure it came factory with Troy sights, free float rail, and magpul & VLTOR furniture. The piston will make it more expensive than a comparably equipped DI gun however.
The down side is weight, and more recoil. The recoil is nothing like my .308, but it is noticeably more than a DGI gun. The weight is very noticeable though.
Comes down to preference, really. I own both piston and DI rifles, and I like them both. The PWS has a long stroke piston, while the LWRC uses a short stroke. I've heard the PWS is softer recoiling due to this, but I haven't confirmed it.
Let me know if you have questions.
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Weight is something im not worried about ive hiked with squad machine guns and bigger machine guns. The long stroke vs short stroke is something i was thinkimg about. And LWRC is highly praised online everywhere and PWS seems great. Im not set on any model but a reliable gun is what i want. I have looked at the Daniel Defense rifles as well if i wanna go on a cheaper route. So how much do you know about the LWRC model line up?
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People did post answers that pertain to the question asked by the OP, There are never just 2 choices, and any benefit gained by going with either of the 2 rifles mentioned can easily be had on a standard AR15. It would be no different than if he asked about colt or BCM, and people told him to check out Daniel Defense.
You don't need to scrape the carbon off the bolts tail, either
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161104/29d1c248c955cb87134b25c204b815d6.jpg
This is going to happen one of these days. I can feel it.
Weight is something im not worried about ive hiked with squad machine guns and bigger machine guns. The long stroke vs short stroke is something i was thinkimg about. And LWRC is highly praised online everywhere and PWS seems great. Im not set on any model but a reliable gun is what i want. I have looked at the Daniel Defense rifles as well if i wanna go on a cheaper route. So how much do you know about the LWRC model line up?
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Just my own experience. Based on the rifle I have. What do you want to know?
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chris.aka.bc
11-03-16, 21:04
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161104/29d1c248c955cb87134b25c204b815d6.jpg
This is going to happen one of these days. I can feel it.
HK415A5 its already happening.
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HK415A5 its already happening.
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It really isn't.
Take every HK piston rifle currently in service witb the US military, and it isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to standard AR's.
What's an HK415?
chris.aka.bc
11-03-16, 21:26
It really isn't.
Take every HK piston rifle currently in service witb the US military, and it isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to standard AR's.
What's an HK415?
True but some are being used. And its an argument of past quanties.
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chris.aka.bc
11-03-16, 23:46
Just my own experience. Based on the rifle I have. What do you want to know?
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Any issues with the sprkng in the piston aet up? Ivs heard the spring in the LWRCI is the only weakness and some suggest the PWS over it because of that.
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All these posts and no one actually posted an answer even relative the question. So how about info from an actual owner and user.
I can't speak to the mod 2, I've only held one, never shot one, but the mod1 is an outstanding rifle. By far my favorite rifle I own. I've haven't experienced a KAC or a hodge rifle yet, but every other brand and configuration I've shot so far, I've yet to find one that makes me want one (556 cal.) over a mod1.
Never have to scrape carbon. It takes me longer to split the rifle than to clean it. Trigger area is always nice and clean. I don't exactly enjoy cleaning, so any reduction there for me is a plus. Super nice just to come home and put it away. Not getting oil sprayed around is nice to. It's just cleaner all around. Dust and garbage doesn't stick to the carrier or bolt either since it doesn't have to be wet to work.
Far as accuracy
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161103/76c453312823a79dcb7d54c3e0d3f6e3.jpg
209 yards. Those are 1" squares. 75 gr hpbt. Hpr or hornady looks like that out of my pws mk116 mod 1. It shoots 50 gr tipped varmint moa or less. Rifle also eats wolf like it's going out of style. Has an ssa-e trigger.
Every new female shooter that's been behind it in prone has rung an 8" gong at 250 yards within first or second shot. I'm talking new, never shot guns, in the prone, off a bipod with just a little instruction.
Can't speak to lwrc. I hear they are very nice, but I have No experince with them. But I will say that you can buy a Pws mark 1 with confidence.
The pistol Pws guns are super nice too. They run like sewing machines, really loud blasty little sewing machines.
The gas adjustment is simple and works very well. Need more, open it up, need less, dial down.
Biggest down side is cost. They aren't cheap rifles, but to be fair, they don't shoot like cheap rifles either. Do you need one, of course not. Lots of things in life a guy doesn't need. But after shooting a mod 1, I didn't need one, wanted one.
Don't let the haters discourage you. The good DI rifles are awesome, but so is this long stroke piston rifle.
That mod 1 has brought me more enjoyment than all of my other rifles combined. It's taught newbies to be great shooters in short order. Follow up shots are super fast.
Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
I've got a lot of time behind DI guns and Primary Weapons Systems MK1 guns, including a fair amount of time behind a PWS MK116 mod 1 (223) with and without a suppressor. I don't know cbx, but I have a lot of the same thoughts and experiences as he has stated above.
The PWS adjustable gas block is great for suppressor use, and the gun always runs very clean in the trigger, bolt tail, and bolt carrier areas. Those areas also stay well lubed even after extensive shooting with a suppressor. They are much better than DI guns in this regard, and anyone that disputes that has probably never shot a PWS.
For those who don't know, the PWS piston system is a long stroke (not short stroke system) which makes it unique among piston designs. People are entitled to their opinions, but something you have to consider is that most of the negative comments about piston guns come from people who have never shot a PWS.
My MK116 is very accurate, and I think every review I have ever seen has said the same thing.
One thing that cbx did not mention was reliability. The PWS MK116 mod 1 which I shoot suppressed and unsuppressed is a range beater. I can't remember that last time I cleaned it, and it is extremely reliable. I shoot a lot of cheap steel case ammo out of it (in addition to alternating back and forth with high quality brass case ammo).
I also agree with cbx where the downside to the PWS guns is their cost. They are very high quality, but not everyone needs a Ferrari to go to the grocery store. I like using it as my beater gun because I feel like I am getting my money's worth out of it.
chri.aka.bc, I'd suggest you get a the 16" barrel instead of the 14.5" barrel simply because you shoot suppressed, and you may be switching between suppressor compatible muzzle devices down the road.
Joe Mamma
Any issues with the sprkng in the piston aet up? Ivs heard the spring in the LWRCI is the only weakness and some suggest the PWS over it because of that.
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I've had no issues with the rifle at all. I've heard of the problem you mentioned, but no, I haven't had it with mine.
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chris.aka.bc
11-04-16, 17:04
Anyone here ever own both a lwrc and pws?
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Serious Account
11-06-16, 02:14
I know this isn't one of the OP's choice, but the only piston gun on the market that i truly trust is the MR556/416. Mainly because of H&K's and the 416's excellent reputation.
Every other piston ARs out there are questionable to me and have not yet proven themselves. Now I haven't handle or shoot the PWS, but right off the bat, I really don't dig all those funky ass "lightening cuts" all over the receiver, basically removing a lot of materials from a critical component like the upper, which can affect the overall rigidity/robustness of the rifle.
chris.aka.bc
11-06-16, 02:34
I know this isn't one of the OP's choice, but the only piston gun on the market that i truly trust is the MR556/416. Mainly because of H&K's and the 416's excellent reputation.
Every other piston ARs out there are questionable to me and have not yet proven themselves. Now I haven't handle or shoot the PWS, but right off the bat, I really don't dig all those funky ass "lightening cuts" all over the receiver, basically removing a lot of materials from a critical component like the upper, which can affect the overall rigidity/robustness of the rifle.
Yeah ive looked at the HK's. Domt think thibk HK will expand and update their civilian line. The HK416A5 is a piece of beauty but LE/MIL only.
And seems the PWS reatains ridgidity.
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Yeah ive looked at the HK's. Domt think thibk HK will expand and update their civilian line. The HK416A5 is a piece of beauty but LE/MIL only.
And seems the PWS reatains ridgidity.
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Not sure Im reading this right or not, but you do know HK has a civilian model of the 416 called the MR556 right?
Not sure Im reading this right or not, but you do know HK has a civilian model of the 416 called the MR556 right?
That has an untreated barrel.
chris.aka.bc
11-06-16, 10:42
Not sure Im reading this right or not, but you do know HK has a civilian model of the 416 called the MR556 right?
Indo know this. But i didnt add it to the list because of the jump in price. Do you have experince or thoughts on the MR556? Why would you recommend it?
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chris.aka.bc
11-06-16, 21:20
Also i dont think the MR556 has an adjustable gas block.
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Indo know this. But i didnt add it to the list because of the jump in price. Do you have experince or thoughts on the MR556? Why would you recommend it?
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Truthfully I don't recommend any piston guns unless you have a few solid DI guns first.
Not because I think PWS or LWRC make bad products, I just don't like so many proprietary parts if it was my only go to rifle.
chris.aka.bc
11-06-16, 22:58
Truthfully I don't recommend any piston guns unless you have a few solid DI guns first.
Not because I think PWS or LWRC make bad products, I just don't like so many proprietary parts if it was my only go to rifle.
Well plan is b uh a piston gun, both have ambi lowers. So i would buy a DI upper for general purpose use. Also thinking of getting a 22 conversion kit as well.
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If you want a piston AR to play with then go for it. I have both BCM DI and AA piston and they run like sewing machines. I do agree with some that for a serious use AR it's probably best to stick with the tested and proven DI system, but for shooting suppressed the piston is the way to go. All the short stroke systems suffer carrier tilt stress and use different methods to alleviate it, but I'm curious if the PWS minimizes it due to the push occurring much further forward of the carrier. Barrel length I'd just stick with a midlength 16". You won't notice the extra 1" of length, gets you slightly better velocity, and the freedom to change muzzle devices down the road.
There is a lot of talk of potential failures with piston AR's, but is there any documented tests of stoppages/parts breakage rates between DI and pistons? We can speculate, but if testing shows a 10% or 0.01% difference that would be more useful.
chris.aka.bc
11-07-16, 01:17
Im thinking a DD upper on a PWS lower. Have heard nothing but good about Daniel Defense.
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MSparks909
11-07-16, 07:49
DD makes good stuff as does BCM. My first rifle was a DD but now I prefer BCM for my DI guns. I just prefer the variety and the "have it your way" approach that BCM offers. With that said, it took me about a year or two of solid shooting with my DD before I decided what options I preferred in my guns.
I've been looking hard at the PWS Mod 2s lately. Depending on what happens tomorrow, I will either be an owner very soon or in a few months.
DD makes good stuff as does BCM. My first rifle was a DD but now I prefer BCM for my DI guns. I just prefer the variety and the "have it your way" approach that BCM offers. With that said, it took me about a year or two of solid shooting with my DD before I decided what options I preferred in my guns.
I've been looking hard at the PWS Mod 2s lately. Depending on what happens tomorrow, I will either be an owner very soon or in a few months.
I'm on the same shoes...depends on tmr..I might get a mod 2 right away
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I just received a email from PWS customer service, because I wanna find out what kind of barrel is PWS using for the mod 2. PWS responded back and explained the material that was using and the difference between their old one and new one. Pretty awesome and detail email, it's least 1000 words on the email. Gotta give PWS a big thumbs up!
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MSparks909
11-07-16, 14:31
I just received a email from PWS customer service, because I wanna find out what kind of barrel is PWS using for the mod 2. PWS responded back and explained the material that was using and the difference between their old one and new one. Pretty awesome and detail email, it's least 1000 words on the email. Gotta give PWS a big thumbs up!
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Any way to link it or sum it up? I'm interested to hear what they had to say.
The KAC SR-15 Mod 2 and the PWS Mod 2 are on my short list for my next AR.
Here you go:
The 416r SS compound we use for our barrels provides greater performance characteristics at the edges of the envelope of the 4150 Chromoly used in the past. In addition to corrosion resistance, which our treatment does help with immensely, the 416r SS also provides greater ductility under extreme conditions, is less prone to damage under certain freeze conditions, and provides the greatest accuracy performance comparatively. For a good read and a more in-depth understanding of some of these subtle differences follow this link: http://faxonfirearms.com/blog/4150-carbon-steel-vs-416r-stainless-which-is-right-for-me/
All our barrels and associated larger components are made here in house; some small, common parts are supplied to us just like all other manufacturers including mag release, bolt catches, etc.
The current barrel configuration for the MK1 MOD2 rifles is FNC LIFE HD treated 416r steel. We do not cold hammer forge our barrels but we do see extremely long barrel lives from our process compared to others and have consistent reports of match-level performance. Our conservative barrel life for a properly maintained .223 Wylde chambered build such as the MK114 MOD2 is 18,000-20,000 rounds downrange. We have our own proprietary profile, we turn and finish our barrels to our own specs, and we see leading edge performance and longevity; I am sure you will experience the benefits of our barrels too if you pick up a new PWS rifle.
Here is a long list of rifle details and differences:
We have had some changes, updates, and additional product releases to move forward with. Below is a very long email but I think it will help to address the different questions you may have and allow you to make an informed decision moving forward. The traditional MK1 MOD1 as offered in the past is no longer available but the MK1 MOD1-P and MK1 MOD2 are now available.
On the larger MK2, .308 Platform, we do not have any current plans for near term changes for a MOD2 offering. Maybe down the road in 2017, or more likely 2018, we will see a change to this larger platform if we find it is warranted and desired by our customers but at this point the larger MK2 MOD1 is staying as is. We do have some changes occurring in our offerings on the smaller MK1, AR15, platform. The MK1 MOD1 has evolved into the MK1 MOD1-P Patrol Series and we have added a new MK1 MOD2 line as well.
As for the builds there are a number of similarities but more so there are some striking differences between the two and which will best meet your current and future needs; please see a little comparison below:
Shared Components Between Platforms:
New 3-Stage Gas Block
Bravo Company Furniture
Lancer Magazine
1:8 PWS Proprietary Profile Barrel – Model and Length Specific
EBT Mod2 – PWS Proprietary Extension Tube
PWS H2 Mod2 Buffer Weight
FNC LIFE HD Surface Treatment on Barrel, Gas Block & Knob, Buffer Weight, BCG Assembly other than Bolt & Cam Pin,
MK1 MOD1-P:
Enhanced Mass Full-Auto Rated Carrier Group
Includes Forward Assist
Standard Box Car Style Upper and Lower Receiver Bodies
KeyMod Rail Design – Maximum 12.79” on 14” & 16” Builds – No 18” Barrel Offered
Ambi Parts Compatible
Enhanced Mil-Spec Trigger
MK1 MOD2:
Standard Mass Semi-Auto Rated Carrier Group
No Forward Assist
New Stylized Upper and Lower Receiver Bodies
New PicMod Rail Design – 15” on 16” & 18” Rifles and Uppers – 18” Barrel Offered
Factory Ambi Configured
Match Grade ZEV SSR Trigger
--
Here are the major differences between the old MK1 MOD1 and the newer MK1 MOD1-P; Gas block, Maximum Rail Length of 12.79” for 16” build, surface treatment for subassemblies, and furniture. Please see below for a comparison list of key features as I see them.
MK1 MOD1 – Original Iteration:
KeyMod Rail up to 15” on 16” & 18” rifles and uppers
4-Stage Adjustable Gas Block
1:8 PWS Proprietary Profile Barrel
Nickel Tephlon coated piston head, op-rod, carrier, and components
Enhanced Mass Full-Auto Rated Carrier
Enhanced Mil-Spec Trigger Group
Magpul MOE Furniture and Magazine
EBT MOD1 & H2 MOD1 but running change
MK1 MOD1-P – New Iteration:
KeyMod Rail up to 12.79” on 16” rifles and uppers – no 18” offering in the MK1 MOD1-P
New Mod2 3-Stage Adjustable Gas Block
1:8 PWS Proprietary Profile Barrel
New Surface treatment on barrel, gas block, carrier and sub-assembly other than bolt – FNC LIFE HD (Lithium Embedded Salt Nitro Carburizing – similar to but better than Isonite QPQ we used before on the barrels)
Enhanced Mass Full-Auto Rated Carrier with new finish treatment
Bravo Company Furniture and Lancer Magazine
EBT MOD2 & H2 MOD2 standard
For all intents and purposes the MOD1 builds are very similar and the new iteration has minor changes to ensure the proven platform stays stable and ready for use in the areas where most needed; i.e. service duty applications and operator roles. This build has been brought down in cost to open up additional opportunities for shooters and departments worldwide to take advantage of the benefits of a long-stroke operating system at a price point which is more easily covered on a limited departmental budget.
Our website is getting updated regularly but just to be clear of what we will be offering in the future; in the long-stroke piston offerings we will have the MK1 MOD1-P, the MK1 MOD2, and the larger .308 platform the MK2 series.
I hope this message finds you well and as we work through this information and new product releases we should see some better information become available here sooner than later. If there is anything else I can help you with now or in the future please do not hesitate to ask. Thank you for your interest, continued support, and ongoing enthusiasm for PWS.
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MSparks909
11-07-16, 20:01
Thanks for posting that. Ton of good info. Interesting that they chose stainless for the Mod 2 barrels.
Why get a Pws lower with a DD upper? Is it the controls?
If you decide you want a DD, may as well make a matched set.
If you want a piston AR to play with then go for it. I have both BCM DI and AA piston and they run like sewing machines. I do agree with some that for a serious use AR it's probably best to stick with the tested and proven DI system, but for shooting suppressed the piston is the way to go. All the short stroke systems suffer carrier tilt stress and use different methods to alleviate it, but I'm curious if the PWS minimizes it due to the push occurring much further forward of the carrier. Barrel length I'd just stick with a midlength 16". You won't notice the extra 1" of length, gets you slightly better velocity, and the freedom to change muzzle devices down the road.
There is a lot of talk of potential failures with piston AR's, but is there any documented tests of stoppages/parts breakage rates between DI and pistons? We can speculate, but if testing shows a 10% or 0.01% difference that would be more useful.
The pws buffer tube has a lip that eliminates any carrier tilt. Extra special. Extra non milspec.
But there I go again posting actual experince. No one's interested in that.
You could just install their Enhanced buffer tube and call it a day on any short piston.
chris.aka.bc
11-08-16, 12:20
Why get a Pws lower with a DD upper? Is it the controls?
If you decide you want a DD, may as well make a matched set.
No, as in an extra upper not as my main upper. An upper i can throw on in case anything does happen to the piston. And since DI are more accurate at greater distances. So a 18 inch DI DD UPPER with a nice ranged scope.
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No, as in an extra upper not as my main upper. An upper i can throw on in case anything does happen to the piston. And since DI are more accurate at greater distances. So a 18 inch DI DD UPPER with a nice ranged scope.
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More accurate? Did you look at that photo I put up?
chris.aka.bc
11-08-16, 13:44
More accurate? Did you look at that photo I put up?
Yeah i saw. But thays the old arguement ia that DI is more accurate. So if i have a complete pws and a spare DI upper i csnt go wrong.
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Singlestack Wonder
11-08-16, 14:24
With the right buffer, no switch block is needed.....
chris.aka.bc
11-08-16, 15:03
The pws buffer tube has a lip that eliminates any carrier tilt. Extra special. Extra non milspec.
But there I go again posting actual experince. No one's interested in that.
You could just install their Enhanced buffer tube and call it a day on any short piston.
Actual experince is always appreciated. As i said i have a few reasons for wanting a spare DI upper. Convenience, part availability, and use of a 22 conversion kit being 3 of them. But im planning on n buying the PWS rifle. Its a sweet deal with an included aftermarket trigger. I have not found any bad comment besides people waiting on theirr aftermarkert triggers.
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I have a lwrc piston and enjoy it a ton. I bought it for the sole purpose to suppress. I can shoot 3x more with the piston than any of my di without having the worry to clean it. It's also much easier to clean. Got to shoot a full auto suppressed last weekend and while a total blast, I had to hold my breath from all the damn gas. It wouldn't be my zombie gun due to the proprietary piston system, but it's a ton of fun at the range and when I finally get my stamp......:D
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