View Full Version : Hacksaw Ridge
Go see this movie. A bit depressed so I decided to take in a film, just me and my shadow once my broadcast day was done.
Ho...Lee....GAWD. I am one of the few people who actually hates Saving Private Ryan. It was a cartoon. A bulkshit, Sgt. Rock Cartoon. I get the beach landing. Had the movie stopped there, I wouldnt have felt ill with the rest. It came out near Thin Red Line and I was a teenybopper and a bit of a Japanophile (it was the 90s) and while it was slow...it spoke to me. It was like...any other time, dude wouldve been a dumb country boy...but he started absconding off to be with island people and moreover it touched on the Army at Guadalcanal. The Pacific is known as the Marines' show but it was just different. I dunno.
Anyways.....Hacksaw Ridge destroys both of them. I would go so far as to say it is literally the Sergeant York of the 21st Century. It starts off cliche but then once it gets going...oh...migod. It made Hamburger Hill look like an episode of F Troop. It looked like they tracked down a bunch of Japanese and white boys on death row and shot them with live ammunition. No shit. No artistic comic book SPR death here. Teeth, bone, and skull. Just Tojos and GIs slaughtering each other. Some stand out gear....That one copy of the Bren gun was humped (Dont know the US nomenclature for it) plus the Japanese version. Brand new Arisakas. Brand new Garand. Flamethrowers, BARs, and just maaaan.
But Desmond Doss was a freaking machine.
"Just one more, Just one more". It was so well done people in the theatre were saying "theres one, theres one!".
Agent Smith actually pulled off a good Virginia Hillbilly. You forget he is Agent Smith (plus he got old).
It was everything The Pacific should've been. The weapons looked new but not fake. The jungle utilities looked worn. It glorified nothing but the actions of a guy trying to stop the dying. No Zone Troopers Slap A Jap BS or all American guy doing a boogie woogie with a Thompson. Just bitter, unfair, confusion and gunfire. And Desmond Doss caught in the middle. When they were hauling off bodies and the medics that merged with Glovers company were toting BARs, web gear for mags plus medical supplies...it set the tone I thought it would be CG cliche video game fighting but no...god know. Practical effects abound. Like Paul Verhoven's Robocop level. It literally made me feel uncomfortable. And if a film can do that....and I'd like to think I'm not squeamish....it was quite a display.
I sort of gave up collecting dvds but I am getting this on Blu Ray.
Plus Vince Vaughn is in it and instead of a goofball he plays it straight.
JMO but worth a watch. Thos movie lulls you in with corny Judy May Churchy Parsonry...then lets you get some yuks in with basic training grabassery...then blows you away. Like Full Metal Jacket did but not so jarringly stilted. I wanna see it again but not right away because some of the combat was just really gruesome. Like teeth and skull going out some dudes head from a 7.5(?) JAP round or whatever caliber Arisakas used.
tldr Go see it
Artisans fired either 6.5 or 7.7 rd, depending upon the model.
Whatever, either way thanks for the report, it sounds like fiction, but it really happened and 75 GIs were living proof. The war in the Pacific was particularly brutal, always been hard to get the guys who were there to talk about it.
Thank you for the review. I don't go to many movies, well, just because. But I would not expect anything less from Mel Gibson.
Hmmmm, loved "Saving Private Ryan" because it was one of the first two movies to depict the actual nature of war in graphic detail (the other was "When Trumpets Fade") and even though the plotline had very questionable moments it was a "good movie" but more importantly gave the average movie goer a sense of what their grandparents actually went through. Also laid the groundwork for "Band of Brothers" which in my opinion might be the best "anything" regarding WWII short of documentaries such as "The World at War."
"The Thin Red Line" on the other hand sucked so bad it was virtually unwatchable. I actually made a condensed 28 minute edit of the film featuring just things like the Japanese army appearing out of the jungle. Could have easily been on of the greatest films concerning the pacific theater but it ended up being about how some soldiers "felt about war in general" and turned into a giant hippie fest even worse than Tigerland.
I guess I'm gonna have to wait for the DVD of Hacksaw Ridge to make a determination.
Moose-Knuckle
11-05-16, 04:16
This one has been on my radar, several good WWII movies coming out now with this; Anthropoid, and Allied.
This is a Mel Gibson production. I will not give one red cent to that antisemitic whack job.
This is a Mel Gibson production. I will not give one red cent to that antisemitic whack job.
I can appreciate why. But "The Patriot" and "We We're Soldiers" were amazing movies.Even "Apocalypto" was pretty good. I'm hardly religious but I even went and saw "The Passion" just because the leftists were so freaked out by it.
Regarding the whole "You guys killed Jesus" thing, well if you believe the account it was true. The main reason is that because there were only Romans and Jews, there was no such thing as a Christian yet. So not surprisingly both Romans and Jews contributed to the death of a person who was...Jewish. If people want to find anti antisemitism in that film it can be done, if you go looking for righteous indignation you can probably find that too. But if you are Christian, and this is probably the most important thing, what you are supposed to find is a film about forgiveness.
Because "even after all this..." Jesus still accepted the responsibility for the sins of all men to provide a path to redemption.
This is a Mel Gibson production. I will not give one red cent to that antisemitic whack job.
While I liked the film and the first Lethal Weapon; I can respect this. There are people who are talented or good at what they do, but can be a turn off due to their views. I wish more people did this and shut the guys who make movies and music down for a while.
I hear the N word blasted from stereos by young black men who are paying other black men who live in nice areas and are millionaires to call them a racial epithet.
Anything Jane Fonda touches, I wont see.
Same for Woody Allen. He made some brilliant and deep films but when you start robbing your own cradle, screw you.
Matt Damon, won't see.
Roman Polanski wont see.
Ted Nugent has some great songs, likes guns, etc but he too is a cradle robbing draft dodger.
Aside from Ridgemont High....I wont see a Sean Penn movie.
Screw Ice T too. He made songs about killing the police yet he is in all these cop shows....as a cop
I could go on. For those who conscientiously object to the film, at least research into Desmond Doss' life. Anybody can carry a gun but what he did and the reasons he did it were truly something rare and remarkable.
I heard once, and believe it, "The measure of a man is not gauged always by what he does, but at times what he will not."
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-05-16, 13:33
Art is art, regardless of who made it. Were I to stay away from art because I did not agree with the artist, regardless of the product, I would most likely never be able to enrich my life through the culture of others. Screw anti-semites, liberals, traitors, gun-grabbers, BLM rappers, etc; but I will still watch Hacksaw Ridge and listen to gangsta rap and enjoy the mediums that make me happy.
I can appreciate why. But "The Patriot" and "We We're Soldiers" were amazing movies.Even "Apocalypto" was pretty good. I'm hardly religious but I even went and saw "The Passion" just because the leftists were so freaked out by it.
Regarding the whole "You guys killed Jesus" thing, well if you believe the account it was true. The main reason is that because there were only Romans and Jews, there was no such thing as a Christian yet. So not surprisingly both Romans and Jews contributed to the death of a person who was...Jewish. If people want to find anti antisemitism in that film it can be done, if you go looking for righteous indignation you can probably find that too. But if you are Christian, and this is probably the most important thing, what you are supposed to find is a film about forgiveness.
Because "even after all this..." Jesus still accepted the responsibility for the sins of all men to provide a path to redemption.
My dislike of Gibson is the result of his personal antisemitic statements, not due to anything in his films.
My dislike of Gibson is the result of his personal antisemitic statements, not due to anything in his films.
I understand that. I've got my own "won't support" list as well that is similar to Firefly's. But much as I dislike Polanski as a person, I'll still watch "The Pianist" because it's such a well made film.
Thankfully Jane Fonda, Matt Damon and Woody Allen never made a film so great I needed to watch it from time to time. Compared to Polanski (a child molester who used drugs on his victims) Gibson (a guy who goes on drunken racists rants) is small potatoes. But I still get where you are coming from. When I figured out Spike Lee was a racist f'tard (I was slow to catch on) I was pretty much "screw him and his movies, not another dime from me", so I get it.
Art is art, regardless of who made it. Were I to stay away from art because I did not agree with the artist, regardless of the product, I would most likely never be able to enrich my life through the culture of others. Screw anti-semites, liberals, traitors, gun-grabbers, BLM rappers, etc; but I will still watch Hacksaw Ridge and listen to gangsta rap and enjoy the mediums that make me happy.
I try not to be the guy living in the woods, in a shack, with no electronic devices because "those sneaky Japs bombed us at Pearl Harbor" and won't eat Ben & Jerry's because they are commie anti gun types. But at the same time, I think everyone has a short list of people they find so offensive they refuse to support them in any way, shape or form.
Well shit. Now I'm going to have to go see it asap. Being a military guy, I'm actually not one of those people that points out all the discrepancies in the war movies unless it's just way over the top. I do appreciate when a movie is made that actually pays attention to detail though. I usually find war movies good when the people making them actually do enough research to get the correct weapons, uniforms, and make sure the story they are trying to tell is historically accurate. I was a big fan of Generation Kill. That was as real as it gets and does a great job of showing what the Iraq war was like. I just hate when they do like they always do, and turn war stories into love stories.
FWIW, I actually am ready to be the guy in the woods.
.Most gangster rap is about slinging dope killing the cops, bitches, fags looking at you funny or other black people. Or whining about jail time. There's no more fun rap nor is there any truly "urban" music with piano or jazz medleys.
Same with country.
Most movies and TV are lame. It just felt good to see a true story about a guy who took his lumps then took more abd stuck to his guns. A guy I know said it was almost like a less extreme Chick tract with people getting mowed down.
Meh....for once it was nice to see soldiers portrayed as humans instead of Rambos or crazy people.
I almost regret starting the thread now. But, It just touched me a bit.
Next to A Walk to Remember, Sgt. York is one of my comfort films. Like how women watch Beaches. It felt genuine.
I would say I have religious beliefs. Maybe Zen Christian. I know I have limits.
Its just good to be reminded that good Americans existed. Still do. Walk among us. But we overlook them for some spoiled athlete or some celebrity with more dollars than sense.
And once more I just dont get why people didnt get Thin Red Line.
I saw it in theaters. Twice. Once with a girl who would not shut up and again just so I could enjoy it.
It was almost like a self exploration with Guadalcanal as backdrop. Like the guy was finding himself. Ir maybe discovering himself. Not so much in terms of courage or ability but like who he is, was, and could be.
Everyone thinks I was on acid when I watched that movie but I wasnt.
even as a artist for a living
I have no issue banning those you hate for moral reasons :)
also why bootlegging hollywood flicks does not bug me one bit about taking money out of there pockets :)
FWIW, I actually am ready to be the guy in the woods.
.Most gangster rap is about slinging dope killing the cops, bitches, fags looking at you funny or other black people. Or whining about jail time. There's no more fun rap nor is there any truly "urban" music with piano or jazz medleys.
Same with country.
Most movies and TV are lame. It just felt good to see a true story about a guy who took his lumps then took more abd stuck to his guns. A guy I know said it was almost like a less extreme Chick tract with people getting mowed down.
Meh....for once it was nice to see soldiers portrayed as humans instead of Rambos or crazy people.
I almost regret starting the thread now. But, It just touched me a bit.
Next to A Walk to Remember, Sgt. York is one of my comfort films. Like how women watch Beaches. It felt genuine.
I would say I have religious beliefs. Maybe Zen Christian. I know I have limits.
Its just good to be reminded that good Americans existed. Still do. Walk among us. But we overlook them for some spoiled athlete or some celebrity with more dollars than sense.
And once more I just dont get why people didnt get Thin Red Line.
I saw it in theaters. Twice. Once with a girl who would not shut up and again just so I could enjoy it.
It was almost like a self exploration with Guadalcanal as backdrop. Like the guy was finding himself. Ir maybe discovering himself. Not so much in terms of courage or ability but like who he is, was, and could be.
Everyone thinks I was on acid when I watched that movie but I wasnt.
Funny how you once again nailed one of my favorite films, Sgt. York. Given your criteria, if you haven't seen it watch "The Best Years of Our Lives."
As for rap / hip hop, I just stopped listening around 1990, the lone exception being the last Beastie Boys album. So I just listen to my old classic rock, new wave and early hip hop favorites. I try to understand "perspective" and that alternate view is initially what attracted me to Run DMC, Melle Mel, Whodini and the rest. Even listened to Ice T, liked "Reckless" and just didn't have time for "Cop Killer" with Body Count, not so much because of the message but because it just sucked.
I think "good America" still exists and always has, sometimes you just have to go find it because it is hidden under a huge pile of nonsense. But if the worst thing we can find to complain about is pop culture, crappy movies and shitty music then things must be pretty good. I don't think any of us went out today hoping to find food for ourselves and our families and had to deal with coming home empty handed despite our best efforts. So all things considered, even given the fact that Obama is President and Bruce Jenner in drag got a "courage award", I think we are doing pretty good.
For every BLM jackass out there, there is somebody who was there when we took Mosul the first time and held it. I hate to think they did it for a country that sucks, because if they are here someplace, it really can't suck no matter how many Kardashians are on TV.
eightmillimeter
11-06-16, 01:39
While I can't say it's the "best" movie I've seen because to me movies are "entertainment" this film was [by miles] the most incredible thing/story I've ever seen depicted in film.
In terms of war movies trying to do it right, I don't anticipate this being bested in my lifetime. Yes, that good.
Art is art, regardless of who made it. Were I to stay away from art because I did not agree with the artist, regardless of the product, I would most likely never be able to enrich my life through the culture of others. Screw anti-semites, liberals, traitors, gun-grabbers, BLM rappers, etc; but I will still watch Hacksaw Ridge and listen to gangsta rap and enjoy the mediums that make me happy.
Well said.
I try not to be the guy living in the woods, in a shack, with no electronic devices because "those sneaky Japs bombed us at Pearl Harbor" and won't eat Ben & Jerry's because they are commie anti gun types. But at the same time, I think everyone has a short list of people they find so offensive they refuse to support them in any way, shape or form.
I won't buy Ben & Jerry's but I'll eat it! =). it is wicked good ice cream!
donlapalma
11-07-16, 12:04
I saw Hacksaw Ridge yesterday and was thoroughly impressed. I was a ball of tension in the last hour of the movie and caught myself thinking many times, "This guy ACTUALLY did this???" Doss was an incredible human being and I'm glad his story is being brought to the masses. Vince Vaughn had me laughing and smiling throughout. I thought he played his role very well. The audience was applauding at the end of the movie. I would not hesitate seeing this movie in the theater again.
Excellent movie. I kept waiting for the crew served machine guns to open up on the Japanese during their retreat. That kid had a pair of brass balls!
For those that will not support Mel Gibson and even those that did but would like the real story (less the Hollywood glitz)
http://www.amazingfacts.org/news-and-features/hero-of-hacksaw-ridge-book-giveaway
Unfortunately the free give away has ended. But the book is pretty inexpensive.
For those that will not support Mel Gibson and even those that did but would like the real story (less the Hollywood glitz)
http://www.amazingfacts.org/news-and-features/hero-of-hacksaw-ridge-book-giveaway
Unfortunately the free give away has ended. But the book is pretty inexpensive. We've got a harmless, half crazy, evangelist that frequents my hardware store. He dropped off a pile of these books the other day. It's sitting on my tool box in my shop right now. The guy that dropped it off said his father served with Doss. Even though I think he's half crazy, most of his stories check out to be true.
Thanks for the review Firefly. I will be making time to check-out the movie this week. I heard that it was a pretty good movie.
I liked the 'Thin Red Line' and 'Saving Private Ryan' too so I'm sure I'll enjoythis one too.
As for Mel Gibson's off-screen antics, I don't care what he says in a drunken stupor. Racism and bigotry will always exist in some form. The only difference now is it is more subtle.
I like his films and understand that main stream Hollywood has basically Black-balled him. Most of the latest film projects are being made through his studio. If he keeps making good movies, then I will watch them.
P.S. If you haven't seen 'Get Gringo' or 'Blood Father' two of his other recent films they are definitely worth watching.
Go see this movie. A bit depressed so I decided to take in a film, just me and my shadow once my broadcast day was done.
Ho...Lee....GAWD. I am one of the few people who actually hates Saving Private Ryan.
I stopped reading right there bro. SPR is a classic. The end. :neo:
My son and I saw this the other night. Absolutely great movie! Usually I'm not one to see a movie more than once but this one is different. Would definitely pay again to see it. I don't care about Gibson's off screen antics. The movies he's made have been pretty good. This one is no exception.
Averageman
11-28-16, 12:37
Like any other alcoholic or alcohol induced tirade coming from an alcoholic, you have two choices, ignore it or avoid it.
That Gibson has produced some amazing movies makes me hope that he has gotten some serious help and now has his life on the right path. Nobody is perfect, drugs and alcohol seem to have ruined the lives of so many, none the least of these some very artistic and gifted people.
From the time I could understand Hemmingway he was my favorite author, when I found out he was a drunken lout many times and had committed suicide it brought him down in my opinion, however his books remain some of my favorites.
I rather like his antics as well as his produced works. Waiting for this to come to disc. Check Blood Father if you haven't already.
Unlike the European theatre of WW2, the Pacific theater was a war of extinction.
No quarter asked or given, war in the base element.
Don't get no more real then that, if they have managed to portray this to any
degree it would be disturbing.
All war movies are anti war, or should be.
Unlike the European theatre of WW2, the Pacific theater was a war of extinction.
No quarter asked or given, war in the base element.
Don't get no more real then that, if they have managed to portray this to any
degree it would be disturbing.
All war movies are anti war, or should be.
It's truly an amazing story. I'm can't imaging the courage it took to do /10th of what he did.
It may sound mawkish, but everyone talks about "embracing the hate", but this is a guy who embraced the love.
"Just one more"
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-28-16, 19:23
Mel Gibson's anti-Semitic rants were despicable, and he is pretty obviously disturbed. That being said, Hacksaw Ridge is an amazing movie that treats our soldiers and Mr. Doss with the respect that is solely lacking in a lot of modern media.
AMAZING MOVIE. Go see it.
I have zero problems with Mel. Solid dude.
However, I am disappointed with this pacifist garbage that he likely had to make to get back in the good graces of the Hollywood elites that make or break careers.
I have zero problems with Mel. Solid dude.
However, I am disappointed with this pacifist garbage that he likely had to make to get back in the good graces of the Hollywood elites that make or break careers.
Pacifist garbage? How so?
I have zero problems with Mel. Solid dude.
However, I am disappointed with this pacifist garbage that he likely had to make to get back in the good graces of the Hollywood elites that make or break careers.
Umm.....it was a true story about an actual guy who actually did all that.
The Pacific was pretty brutal and had none of the glory of Europe.
The Combat Medics with BARs set the tone. Watch the movie first.
Per Gibson, What he said and how he acted wasn't proper or classy but it's been a while and at some point you have to forgive people if they have really shown remorse.
Nobody's perfect. If he is really contrite then dogpiling him forever is kinda pointless.
Anyone who's never said or done something they are not proud of or was inappropriate isn't human. If he's been sober and on the straight and narrow, allow a second chance.
Alcohol is called Stupid Juice for a reason.
JMHO.
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-28-16, 23:43
The man is a helluva filmmaker. Like lot's of people with real talent, he has some real demons.
Meh. I like Gibson, and his movies. This is not a hill I am going to die on. I know a couple folks who despise him who loved this movie. Now I HAVE to see it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-29-16, 10:36
I find it funny how villified he is amongst non-hollywood people. Have you all not said or done something, especially while drunk, that you regret?
I find it funny how villified he is amongst non-hollywood people. Have you all not said or done something, especially while drunk, that you regret?
Yes I have. Not just when drinking, I don't drink much. The issue is your true colors usually come out when you're drunk. I like his movies and his acting. I'll keep,watching. He's paid a price and has been behaving.
Finally saw this one. Definitely resets the bar.
This movie was terrible.
The guy gives a bullshit reason why he can't use a firearm. He hides behind religion when the religion he claims to follow doesn't command that.
Tactics were terrible. Action scenes and gun handling were terrible.
He has a cry-baby bitch voice that was hard to tolerate.
The love story that was forced in was lukewarm at best.
Only thing this movie left me with was wondering where I could find a Thompson with unlimited ammunition that makes 300 yard shots.
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This movie was terrible.
The guy gives a bullshit reason why he can't use a firearm. He hides behind religion when the religion he claims to follow doesn't command that.
Tactics were terrible. Action scenes and gun handling were terrible.
He has a cry-baby bitch voice that was hard to tolerate.
The love story that was forced in was lukewarm at best.
Only thing this movie left me with was wondering where I could find a Thompson with unlimited ammunition that makes 300 yard shots.
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Ok, then. Guess that fact that it was a true story doesn't matter.
Ok, then. Guess that fact that it was a true story doesn't matter.
It can be *based on a true story* and still suck. Further, facts can be gotten wrong.
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It can be *based on a true story* and still suck. Further, facts can be gotten wrong.
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Well I thought it was great. One of the main points of the film is heroes don't have to look like Sgt. Rock. Sometimes they are annoying sounding hillbillies from Va who talk a lot of pacifist sounding shit.
As for facts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss
Citation: The President of the United States of America, in the name of Congress, takes pleasure in presenting the Medal of Honor to Private First Class Desmond Thomas Doss, United States Army, for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action above and beyond the call of duty from April 29 – 21 May 1945, while serving with the Medical Detachment, 307th Infantry Regiment, 77th Infantry Division, in action at Urasoe Mura, Okinawa, Ryukyu Islands.
Private First Class Doss was a company aid man when the 1st Battalion assaulted a jagged escarpment 400 feet high. As our troops gained the summit, a heavy concentration of artillery, mortar and machine gun fire crashed into them, inflicting approximately 75 casualties and driving the others back. Pfc. Doss refused to seek cover and remained in the fire-swept area with the many stricken, carrying all 75 casualties one-by-one to the edge of the escarpment and there lowering them on a rope-supported litter down the face of a cliff to friendly hands.
On May 2, he exposed himself to heavy rifle and mortar fire in rescuing a wounded man 200 yards forward of the lines on the same escarpment; and 2 days later he treated 4 men who had been cut down while assaulting a strongly defended cave, advancing through a shower of grenades to within eight yards of enemy forces in a cave's mouth, where he dressed his comrades' wounds before making 4 separate trips under fire to evacuate them to safety.
On May 5, he unhesitatingly braved enemy shelling and small arms fire to assist an artillery officer. He applied bandages, moved his patient to a spot that offered protection from small arms fire and, while artillery and mortar shells fell close by, painstakingly administered plasma. Later that day, when an American was severely wounded by fire from a cave, Pfc. Doss crawled to him where he had fallen 25 feet from the enemy position, rendered aid, and carried him 100 yards to safety while continually exposed to enemy fire.
On May 21, in a night attack on high ground near Shuri, he remained in exposed territory while the rest of his company took cover, fearlessly risking the chance that he would be mistaken for an infiltrating Japanese and giving aid to the injured until he was himself seriously wounded in the legs by the explosion of a grenade.
Rather than call another aid man from cover, he cared for his own injuries and waited 5 hours before litter bearers reached him and started carrying him to cover. The trio was caught in an enemy tank attack and Pfc. Doss, seeing a more critically wounded man nearby, crawled off the litter; and directed the bearers to give their first attention to the other man. Awaiting the litter bearers' return, he was again struck, by a sniper bullet while being carried off the field by a comrade, this time suffering a compound fracture of one arm. With magnificent fortitude he bound a rifle stock to his shattered arm as a splint and then crawled 300 yards over rough terrain to the aid station.
Through his outstanding bravery and unflinching determination in the face of desperately dangerous conditions, Pfc. Doss saved the lives of many soldiers. His name became a symbol throughout the 77th Infantry Division for outstanding gallantry far above and beyond the call of duty.
I'm personally glad they told his story, only wish it could have been done while he was alive. Now they just need to tell the story of Jack Lucas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacklyn_H._Lucas
Like I said....
It was mediocre at best.
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This movie was terrible.
The guy gives a bullshit reason why he can't use a firearm. He hides behind religion when the religion he claims to follow doesn't command that.
I'm not sure whether or not the movie portrays this in the way you're saying it does but Doss did not say he was against killing because he was a Seventh-day Adventist. He said he was against killing based on his personal and strict application of the 6th Commandment.
Adhering to a conviction that strongly given all that he faced is something not many other men if any could commit to.
I'm not sure whether or not the movie portrays this in the way you're saying it does but Doss did not say he was against killing because he was a Seventh-day Adventist. He said he was against killing based on his personal and strict application of the 6th Commandment.
Adhering to a conviction that strongly given all that he faced is something not many other men if any could commit to.
Again, the 6th commandment. I don't think it means what you, or his portrayed character, thinks it means.
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Tyler didnt like the movie. We should respect that. Never debate matters of taste.
Desmond Doss had his beliefs, served honorably, saved human lives, and led a moral life.
Good enough for me. I am not a conscientious objector but to those truly sincere in such beliefs; I unwaveringly support and respect them. If everybody loved their neighbor then we woukdnt have fights much less wars
Like I said....
It was mediocre at best.
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You're allowed to not like it. I just think you missed a lot of the point of the film.
You also shouldn't suggest exaggeration of facts without supporting that claim. The only thing I saw that didn't seem correct (and it could have been specific wording) was something to the effect that Doss was the first conscientious objector to win the Medal of Honor and that simply isn't the case, Sgt. York (and a very similar individual) come to mind. Other than that, I think they told his story well and it seems he was worthy of having his story told.
Contrast that with a film that about the fact there were actually black people at NASA doing the math for the space program. I mean I'm glad they hired good people and didn't let things like their skin color to get in the way, but to actually make a movie and feel that story was so damn compelling it had to be told? I guess some people have a hard time finding the heroes they need. Somewhere there are thousands of black guys who saw serious shit in Korea and most people can't name one of them.
You're allowed to not like it. I just think you missed a lot of the point of the film.
You also shouldn't suggest exaggeration of facts without supporting that claim. The only thing I saw that didn't seem correct (and it could have been specific wording) was something to the effect that Doss was the first conscientious objector to win the Medal of Honor and that simply isn't the case, Sgt. York (and a very similar individual) come to mind. Other than that, I think they told his story well and it seems he was worthy of having his story told.
Contrast that with a film that about the fact there were actually black people at NASA doing the math for the space program. I mean I'm glad they hired good people and didn't let things like their skin color to get in the way, but to actually make a movie and feel that story was so damn compelling it had to be told? I guess some people have a hard time finding the heroes they need. Somewhere there are thousands of black guys who saw serious shit in Korea and most people can't name one of them.
What point did I miss? Be specific.
I can suggest they got facts wrong all I want. I've never seen a Hollywood rendition that got everything right, so why should I expect this one to?
Fact is, while a good story, it was a shorty, unentertaining movie. And anybody that says one can't or shouldn't kill because the Bible says so is ignorant. And actually, I had read his reason for not picking up a gun was daddy issues....not religion. So if that's the case, quick fact that was wrong.
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-08-17, 11:25
I thought, as a story, it was great. As a war movie, it was horrendous. It was cliched, slightly boring, and the militaria was so skewed that I (as a WWII amateur historian) was forced to pull my hair out.
To put down Cpl. Desmond Doss though, a man with two BSM w/V and a MOH, is ludicrous. The man, in one episode of bravery, singlehandedly saved 75 of his men. He may never have fired a shot, but he did more for American troops than most ever have.
As you said, very poor military movie. But who put him down? Who marginalized his accomplishments?
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-08-17, 11:45
What point did I miss? Be specific.
I can suggest they got facts wrong all I want. I've never seen a Hollywood rendition that got everything right, so why should I expect this one to?
Fact is, while a good story, it was a shorty, unentertaining movie. And anybody that says one can't or shouldn't kill because the Bible says so is ignorant. And actually, I had read his reason for not picking up a gun was daddy issues....not religion. So if that's the case, quick fact that was wrong.
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Look man, I'm not looking to hash it out with you, I like you. I just think we somehow got on a tangent of talking about the real Doss, and not the movie one.
Yeah I didn't care for the Hollywood rendition of the story. I just didn't get the hype. I really think the average joe wouldn't have enjoyed this at all if it were a fictional character and not a real hero portrayed.
The Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not kill" rather thou shalt not murder. God repeatedly sends his people to war in the Bible. I found myself yelling at the screen in my head. I understand the real character had an aversion to firearms because his father smacked his mother with one and threatened to kill her in a drunken rage.
I just didn't like the film. No reason for us to get angry at each other.
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-08-17, 12:30
Yeah I didn't care for the Hollywood rendition of the story. I just didn't get the hype. I really think the average joe wouldn't have enjoyed this at all if it were a fictional character and not a real hero portrayed.
The Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not kill" rather thou shalt not murder. God repeatedly sends his people to war in the Bible. I found myself yelling at the screen in my head. I understand the real character had an aversion to firearms because his father smacked his mother with one and threatened to kill her in a drunken rage.
I just didn't like the film. No reason for us to get angry at each other.
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I totally agree with you on all points. Biblically speaking, God was a big fan of justified killing, as well as full scale wars. Defeating Imperial Japan seems as justified to me as anything ever. Doss objected not only because of the violence he both endured and inflicted as a child, but also because of a strict adherence to Seventh Day Adventism (non violence/veganism/no sports, other weird stuff) IIRC.
The characters in the movie, while I liked Doss' character, were awful to me. His basic training platoon was full of every military caricature/cliche out there, and Vince Vaughn may have been the world's worst Drill Sergeant/Platoon Sergeant known to cinema. I find Hugo Weaving to be a fantastic actor, but his portrayal of Tom Doss was abysmal.
Better writing, more attention to detail, and less focus on the backstory (we get it Mel, Virginia in the 30's was boring) would have made this a great flick.
What point did I miss? Be specific.
I can suggest they got facts wrong all I want. I've never seen a Hollywood rendition that got everything right, so why should I expect this one to?
Fact is, while a good story, it was a shorty, unentertaining movie. And anybody that says one can't or shouldn't kill because the Bible says so is ignorant. And actually, I had read his reason for not picking up a gun was daddy issues....not religion. So if that's the case, quick fact that was wrong.
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Did you watch the movie? They covered all that. It was a combination of religious views and the fact that his dad got drunk with a gun and he almost killed his dad with it. I think the problem is that he formed his own religious belief system that isn't identical to yours.
This was also detailed in the movie as every officer stated they were also very religious men but war is different. For me "personally" I prefer York because I think York saved more men with a rifle than Doss did running and hiding and sneaking wounded off the ridge.
But each man has his values, and if they include risking their own lives to save others that is something I can respect even if I don't have the same beliefs. Obviously something in this movie just rubbed you the wrong way, I can understand that too, lots of films I despise that others think are brilliant.
And I think that is probably all the meaningful discussion we are going to accomplish regarding this film so I'll let it go.
Yes I watched the movie, where he claimed religious views. That is a bullshit reason, which I understand, was only Hollywood. God doesn't command one not to kill or engage in battle against evil. As I understand, the real Doss didn't cite religion rather personal conviction. ETA: I don't care what his religious belief system is but changing God's commandments to suit his own ideology is no different than people attempting to change it to support gay marriage and transgenderism. Gods word doesn't change to suit your desires.
I don't care what the reason was or wasn't; the movie still sucked and that's completely independent of the story. It could have been made differently and would have been better.
Why do you act as though it's insulting to you that I didn't like the movie? Why do you feel the need to defend a movie? Apparently I rubbed you the wrong way by not enjoying the movie to the same level you did?
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I have not seen the movie, but I did read this:
http://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/hacksaw-ridge/
Yes I watched the movie, where he claimed religious views. That is a bullshit reason, which I understand, was only Hollywood. God doesn't command one not to kill or engage in battle against evil. As I understand, the real Doss didn't cite religion rather personal conviction. ETA: I don't care what his religious belief system is but changing God's commandments to suit his own ideology is no different than people attempting to change it to support gay marriage and transgenderism. Gods word doesn't change to suit your desires.
I don't care what the reason was or wasn't; the movie still sucked and that's completely independent of the story. It could have been made differently and would have been better.
Why do you act as though it's insulting to you that I didn't like the movie? Why do you feel the need to defend a movie? Apparently I rubbed you the wrong way by not enjoying the movie to the same level you did?
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There are all kinds of Christianity with all kinds of interpretations. Regarding Doss he was raised Seventh-day Adventist and his particular religious views combined with personal experiences were the basis of his belief system, which the film covered pretty correctly regardless of if you agree with those views or not.
Starting to understand your fundamental objection to the film however. Additionally Seventh Day Adventists definitely practice Christian Pacifism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_pacifism#Seventh-day_Adventists
During the American Civil War in 1864, shortly after the formation of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, the Seventh-day Adventists declared, "The denomination of Christians calling themselves Seventh-day Adventists, taking the Bible as their rule of faith and practice, are unanimous in their views that its teaching are contrary to the spirit and practice of war; hence, they have ever been conscientiously opposed to bearing arms."
The general Adventist movement from 1867 followed a policy of conscientious objection. This was confirmed by the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1914. The official policy allows for military service in non-combative roles such as medical corps much like Seventh-day Adventist Desmond Doss who was the first conscientious objector to receive the Medal of Honor and one of only three so honored, and other supportive roles which do not require to kill or carry a weapon.
Also I didn't find it insulting that you didn't like the film. I honestly don't care. In fact I'm trying to find any post of mine where I said I was insulted.
There are all kinds of Christianity with all kinds of interpretations. Regarding Doss he was raised Seventh-day Adventist and his particular religious views combined with personal experiences were the basis of his belief system, which the film covered pretty correctly regardless of if you agree with those views or not.
Starting to understand your fundamental objection to the film however. Additionally Seventh Day Adventists definitely practice Christian Pacifism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_pacifism#Seventh-day_Adventists
During the American Civil War in 1864, shortly after the formation of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, the Seventh-day Adventists declared, "The denomination of Christians calling themselves Seventh-day Adventists, taking the Bible as their rule of faith and practice, are unanimous in their views that its teaching are contrary to the spirit and practice of war; hence, they have ever been conscientiously opposed to bearing arms."
The general Adventist movement from 1867 followed a policy of conscientious objection. This was confirmed by the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1914. The official policy allows for military service in non-combative roles such as medical corps much like Seventh-day Adventist Desmond Doss who was the first conscientious objector to receive the Medal of Honor and one of only three so honored, and other supportive roles which do not require to kill or carry a weapon.
Actually, no, you aren't understanding it. If it had happened just as depicted that's one thing, but I just thought it a terrible movie, terrible acting, terrible action, etc. I couldn't get through it with the little bitch voice.
I didn't like it. Get over it, dude.
And on "religion":
If you pervert the text of the Bible, no matter your intention, you've perverted the Bible. Whether it be your objection to violence, or your objection to the biblical definition of marriage.
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Actually, no, you aren't understanding it. If it had happened just as depicted that's one thing, but I just thought it a terrible movie, terrible acting, terrible action, etc. I couldn't get through it with the little bitch voice.
I didn't like it. Get over it, dude.
And on "religion":
If you pervert the text of the Bible, no matter your intention, you've perverted the Bible. Whether it be your objection to violence, or your objection to the biblical definition of marriage.
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Wow. Ok, let me see if I can make this even simpler.
1. I do not care that you didn't like the movie. There is nothing to get over. Other people also didn't like the movie. I don't care. Nobody has to like this movie.
2. I do not care what your views are on religion. The only thing I have attempted is to point out that the depiction of Doss's beliefs, motivations and actions are factually accurate. Doesn't matter if you agree with them or not, the film accurately portrays his motivations and events. That is the ONLY thing I have taken issue with regarding your posts.
So to recap.
Don't care that you didn't like the movie - never cared.
Was correcting your inaccurate assertions regarding Doss's beliefs, motivations and actions. Provided supporting material.
Seems the only actual conflict you have is with the belief of some Christian pacifists, particularly Seventh Day Adventists, maybe you can go find some of them to continue this debate. That and you thought it was a mediocre war movie, but again I really don't care about that.
Hopefully that gets us on the same page.
I'm not so sure the movie was factually correct or not...I've now read varying reports of both beliefs and events. None of us were there, I really don't know what to think about what actually happened. Obviously timelines were wrong. One major problem with the plot was in the movie he was a volunteer against his father's, a war hero, wishes. In fact, he was drafted.
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I'm not so sure the movie was factually correct or not...I've now read varying reports of both beliefs and events. None of us were there, I really don't know what to think about what actually happened. Obviously timelines were wrong. One major problem with the plot was in the movie he was a volunteer against his father's, a war hero, wishes. In fact, he was drafted.
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Well for the most important issue, I posted the Presidential citation verbatim.
Looks like you are wrong about him being drafted. Here is a source:
http://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/an-american-hero/article_a17f188d-2584-53f9-b672-1d947c8c4498.html
A year later, he started work for the city, she wrote, and eventually took a job as a joiner at the Newport News Naval shipyard.
Following the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, Doss voluntarily enlisted in the U.S. Armythough his job at the shipyard could have secured him a deferment, a decision that left him to reconcile his desire to serve his country with his religious beliefs.
But if you want to pick apart details, here you go.
http://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/hacksaw-ridge/
Another link in this thread stated otherwise. As I said, lots of conflicting information.
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Again, the 6th commandment. I don't think it means what you, or his portrayed character, thinks it means.
You're assuming a lot. I'm not assigning any personal meaning to the 6th Commandment. All I know is it states "thou shalt not kill." Whether you, me or anyone else wants to mince words over what that means or what the Seventh-day Adventists believe really doesn't matter.*
You state you've read up on the story but how many sources do you need to be convinced that Doss used the 6th commandment as justification for not fighting as it violated his religious beliefs? How is it he never wavered from his belief if he was using a B.S. excuse not to fight?
Even though the links SteyrAUG has provided show that Seventh-day Adventists are pacifist, conscientious objectors, why do you keep saying that Doss wasn't following Seventh-day Adventist beliefs? If you think they're perverting the Bible maybe ask one of them. Again, are you reviewing the movie, religion or the man?
Have you ever broken a law, violated some value you know to be true? Or if you practice religion have you sinned? It's kind of hard to judge someone else for taking the high ground, so to speak.
And anybody that says one can't or shouldn't kill because the Bible says so is ignorant. And actually, I had read his reason for not picking up a gun was daddy issues....not religion. So if that's the case, quick fact that was wrong.
Again, are you critiquing the movie or using your bias against Doss?
The Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not kill" rather thou shalt not murder. God repeatedly sends his people to war in the Bible. I found myself yelling at the screen in my head. I understand the real character had an aversion to firearms because his father smacked his mother with one and threatened to kill her in a drunken rage.
I just didn't like the film. No reason for us to get angry at each other.
I'm no Biblical scholar but that was the Old Testament. Jesus was apparently all about peace and turning the other cheek.
You say you're just critiquing the movie yet you call anyone ignorant that has a personal conviction against killing.
Whether you think it's B.S. or not, Doss had a belief that he stuck by under the harshest of circumstances. Even though I'm not religious, I can appreciate that.
You seem to have an issue with the man himself. If you want to critique a movie with you personal biases that's fine. Just don't be surprised when you get called out on it.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2006/03/25/us/desmond-t-doss-87-heroic-war-objector-dies.html
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You're assuming a lot. I'm not assigning any personal meaning to the 6th Commandment. All I know is it states "thou shalt not kill." Whether you, me or anyone else wants to mince words over what that means or what the Seventh-day Adventists believe really doesn't matter.*
You state you've read up on the story but how many sources do you need to be convinced that Doss used the 6th commandment as justification for not fighting as it violated his religious beliefs? How is it he never wavered from his belief if he was using a B.S. excuse not to fight?
Even though the links SteyrAUG has provided show that Seventh-day Adventists are pacifist, conscientious objectors, why do you keep saying that Doss wasn't following Seventh-day Adventist beliefs? If you think they're perverting the Bible maybe ask one of them. Again, are you reviewing the movie, religion or the man?
Have you ever broken a law, violated some value you know to be true? Or if you practice religion have you sinned? It's kind of hard to judge someone else for taking the high ground, so to speak.
Again, are you critiquing the movie or using your bias against Doss?
I'm no Biblical scholar but that was the Old Testament. Jesus was apparently all about peace and turning the other cheek.
You say you're just critiquing the movie yet you call anyone ignorant that has a personal conviction against killing.
Whether you think it's B.S. or not, Doss had a belief that he stuck by under the harshest of circumstances. Even though I'm not religious, I can appreciate that.
You seem to have an issue with the man himself. If you want to critique a movie with you personal biases that's fine. Just don't be surprised when you get called out on it.
I've critiqued the movie, and stated that his beliefs were misguided.
The sixth commandment states "thou shalt not murder". Go to original translations and you'll see there were some poor translations through the years to transpose murder as kill. Frequently, God commands his people to kill. I stated that if Doss, or any other, believed God commanded his people not to kill, they are ignorant of what was actually commanded. And yes, I'll tell any who believes the Bible states not to kill that they are ignorant on the subject.
Maybe you missed the part where I stated the tactics, action scenes, and acting were terrible and the crummy accent made the movie unbearable. My wife purchased this movie and I had no idea what it or who it was about before seeing it. I was annoyed by the portrayal before he was ever the consciences objector. As for the man, he served admirably and was a hero. I'm grateful for his actions on the field, but that doesn't mean his beliefs were admirable or reasonable.
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I've critiqued the movie, and stated that his beliefs were misguided.
The sixth commandment states "thou shalt not murder". Go to original translations and you'll see there were some poor translations through the years to transpose murder as kill. Frequently, God commands his people to kill. I stated that if Doss, or any other, believed God commanded his people not to kill, they are ignorant of what was actually commanded. And yes, I'll tell any who believes the Bible states not to kill that they are ignorant on the subject.
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Interesting. So you are saying that the KJV of the bible is not the literal and infallible word of god and in fact there are many human errors?
Interesting. So you are saying that the KJV of the bible is not the literal and infallible word of god and in fact there are many human errors?
Crazy notion, right?
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Crazy notion, right?
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You don't know how many times I've heard "there are no errors in the bible."
Moose-Knuckle
05-09-17, 04:49
Well yeah mmkay.
Back to the movie . . . .
Finally saw it myself the other night, thought it was great. Only thing I didn't care for was some of the low budget CGI. I was impressed Gibson included the interviews of the real life Pvt. Doss, his brother, and his CO at the end.
What an American.
As I told my wife, WWII was mammoth . . . the largest single event in human history, there are so many untold stories.
This film and Unbroken taught me about two great Americans I had never heard of before.
Now if someone would make a film about Operation Jedburgh.
Finally saw this one. Definitely resets the bar.
This movie was terrible.
The guy gives a bullshit reason why he can't use a firearm. He hides behind religion when the religion he claims to follow doesn't command that.
Tactics were terrible. Action scenes and gun handling were terrible.
He has a cry-baby bitch voice that was hard to tolerate.
The love story that was forced in was lukewarm at best.
Only thing this movie left me with was wondering where I could find a Thompson with unlimited ammunition that makes 300 yard shots.
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I have mixed feelings about the movie. I watched it again a few days ago with my 14 year old son. He told me he wanted to watch it because it came up in history class. The story of the man is absolutely amazing. He had a set of HUGE BRASS BALLS! That's the take away for me. I disagree with his beliefs but he made a decision and stood behind the decision. The tactics drove me nuts too. The BAR gunner picking up the legless body of another American to use as a shield as he charged the enemy firing his BAR had me yelling at the TV. I am sure there were other things but that one stands out clearest in my memory. But that's the case for most movies.
To be fair, it was the 40s.
The BAR gunner human shield was gruesome.
There was this one WWII movie in B&W I saw as a kid. Like I was 10. And this one guy has a Tommy gun with 3 mags taped together who gets shot and screams "MY GUTS! MYYY GUUUUUUUTS!!!!"
It was pretty dark.
Finally saw this one. Definitely resets the bar.
This movie was terrible.
The guy gives a bullshit reason why he can't use a firearm. He hides behind religion when the religion he claims to follow doesn't command that.
Tactics were terrible. Action scenes and gun handling were terrible.
He has a cry-baby bitch voice that was hard to tolerate.
The love story that was forced in was lukewarm at best.
Only thing this movie left me with was wondering where I could find a Thompson with unlimited ammunition that makes 300 yard shots.
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To be fair, it was the 40s.
The BAR gunner human shield was gruesome.
There was this one WWII movie in B&W I saw as a kid. Like I was 10. And this one guy has a Tommy gun with 3 mags taped together who gets shot and screams "MY GUTS! MYYY GUUUUUUUTS!!!!"
It was pretty dark.
I missed much of the recent discussion in the past day, just glanced at some of it. This is an amazing man and an amazing story. As with lots of films there is some unrealistic BS. It was a good movie. I bought it on Prime and will watch it again. What he was able to do is unbelievable.
I missed much of the recent discussion in the past day, just glanced at some of it. This is an amazing man and an amazing story. As with lots of films there is some unrealistic BS. It was a good movie. I bought it on Prime and will watch it again. What he was able to do is unbelievable.
Like you, I share none of his actual beliefs. But if he did indeed spend the night alone on the ridge rescuing the wounded he goes to the front of the "crazy brave" class.
One could nitpick Sgt. York for tactics, realism and questionable religious beliefs, but it's still one of my favorite movies. I had never heard of Desmond Doss before this film, I'm glad his story was told.
I thought, as a story, it was great. As a war movie, it was horrendous. It was cliched, slightly boring, and the militaria was so skewed that I (as a WWII amateur historian) was forced to pull my hair out.
To put down Cpl. Desmond Doss though, a man with two BSM w/V and a MOH, is ludicrous. The man, in one episode of bravery, singlehandedly saved 75 of his men. He may never have fired a shot, but he did more for American troops than most ever have.
Like you, I share none of his actual beliefs. But if he did indeed spend the night alone on the ridge rescuing the wounded he goes to the front of the "crazy brave" class.
One could nitpick Sgt. York for tactics, realism and questionable religious beliefs, but it's still one of my favorite movies. I had never heard of Desmond Doss before this film, I'm glad his story was told.
I agree. This is a story that needed to be told. It's amazing.
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