View Full Version : Strange 5.56 fired case
Hello
After case gathering at our military range, I found this very strange LC 5,56 case.
I can assure that this ammo was fired with our military FAMAS...That's the first time I see such an horror!
What could have been the reason of such a distortion?
Best regards from France
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Fluted Heckler and Koch chamber.
Yes Sir, the Famas chamber is fluted, but after 30 years of Famas use, I 've never seen this...
Very interesting -- I didn't know the FAMAS chamber is fluted.
Some lots of Independence and Federal commercial ammunition factory-loaded by IMI using Federal-ATK (Lake City) components is loaded very hot. Perhaps this is some that got to France?
Google's article on FAMAS said that the weapon works best when used with a specified steel case round and explained that use of brass case ammo might cause the situation described in your post. Further, it stated that France has prohibited military purchase of non specified 5.56mm ammo as used by other countries. To me it sounds as if France has a rifle that negates use of NATO ammo--a poor idea. I had forgot what the FAMAS is and did the Google search for my own information. To the informed among us, I ask whether or not the article is correct?
Good God! Don't get me started on the fluted chamber crap. If you need to flute the chamber.... take the whole design and throw it out, and start over. YOU'VE FAILED.
Good God! Don't get me started on the fluted chamber crap. If you need to flute the chamber.... take the whole design and throw it out, and start over. YOU'VE FAILED.
Oh, please elaborate then lol
Dear friends from this M4 Forum,
FYI, this picture shows you that the fluted military Famas chamber don't handle the cases every time the same way.
From left to the right:
LC12-LI5AI-LC14-RG.
We can note that the cases have marks, and it's normal due to the fluted chamber.
As you can see, it seems that LC cases are more delicate to the chamber fluting.
But what could be the origin of the problem that made this LC 12 case so artistic?If you look at the LC14 case the marks are very soft.
regards42285
Tighter chamber, out of spec chamber/headspace, hotter (higher pressure) cartridge, extremely dirty/corroded barrel (causing higher pressure).
My guesses.
In 3 decades of HK91 shooting before I sold it I never saw anything more carbon stripes from the fluted chamber. That and skid marks from hitting the ground 30 ft away at high speed.
Something was wrong with that round, the brass was too soft, setback, or barrel issue.
Are there signs of pressure at the base of the case?
Edit: primer looks reasonable... Makes me think thin or soft brass
US GI brass is induction annealed to be softer around the neck and shoulders with a much harder case head area to maintain integrity as a pressure vessel.
See the hardness gradient sketch in the bottom left of the drawing.
What is intriguing is the tool marks on the "Lands" of the flutes just below the shoulder. The softer brass is fully obturating into the flutes, diminishing the ability for gas to help "Float" a dirty or rusty case out of the chamber during extraction.
http://i.imgur.com/gIdQCq6.jpg
In 3 decades of HK91 shooting before I sold it I never saw anything more carbon stripes from the fluted chamber. That and skid marks from hitting the ground 30 ft away at high speed.
Something was wrong with that round, the brass was too soft, setback, or barrel issue.
Are there signs of pressure at the base of the case?
Edit: primer looks reasonable... Makes me think thin or soft brass
no signs of overpressure, the weapon works fine.
See post no. 5 about France's military requiring a specialized steel case round for the FAMAS.
See post no. 5 about France's military requiring a specialized steel case round for the FAMAS.
I agree with you!the problem is that the Famas is still the french army main combat rifle, and the production of the appropriate steel case ceased in the 90's...
(55gr for 1/12 twist)
Ned Christiansen
11-07-16, 14:38
The FAMAS locking method is sensitive to bullet length. The timing of the flutes becoming pressurized is dependent upon the case coming "uncorked" by the bullet at a certain instant, and the "when" of that is meant to be when a 55-grain bullet leaves the case. Longer bullet = later = bolt is starting its movement and the extraction-aiding "float" has not yet started.
Not sure that explains what's going on in the pics but I think the pics explain why the original French ammo had steel cases. My FAMAS guy who explained the above to me tells me it is not unusual to see these extreme-pressure signs in this system when the ammo isn't "just right". Other systems would tolerate it with zero issues but the FAMAS is picky; hence I presume, the regulation about shooting outside ammo in it.
Ned Christiansen
11-09-16, 10:30
Another thing to keep in mind is that unlike our M16 series, on the FAMAS, the firing pin can reach the primer before the bolt is locked ("locked"). When they ran out of the steel cased ammo and there was no French source for more, they contracted with another European manufacturer to supply it. Then the slam fires started-- firing pin inertia was setting them off before the bolt was fully in place. When that happens with a bullpup it's pretty bad and there were about three dozen injuries.
My take on all that is, being that the industry that created the FAMAS and its ammo no longer exists, all the knowledge and experience on the gun design and its picky-eating ammo needs were lost.... or maybe, not found, brought out of retirement, and consulted when obviously they should have been. There are some people there now who have studied it all and recouped some of the prior knowledge but the rescue of the FAMAS appears to have failed.
I would love to have a FAMAS. If I did I don't know what I would shoot in it. I would want it to be 55 grain only, mild, and have hard primers... steel cases might be a plus.
Despite the next abort of the Famas as the French main combat riffle, It seems that not even one would be sold out of France...Don't be afraid, french civilian shooters are excluded owning this military rifle too.
Holland's government could fit out the French national guard with the downgraded Famas.
Regards
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