View Full Version : GAS GOING UP
gas is going up to $6 tomorow, exxon in nc is rationing to $40. per car.....
MASSIVE rush on stations here tonight. They cranked it .20 cents from this morning to this afternoon. Rumors are .90 - 1.00 more tomorrow. We will see.
i dont know how true this is, but i c+p it anyway
The death of OPEC
Posted Sep 11 2008, 07:01 AM by Douglas McIntyre Rating: Saudi Arabia walked out on OPEC yesterday, saying it would not honor the cartel's production cut. It was tired of rants from Hugo Chavez of Venezuela and the well-dressed oil minister from Iran.
As the world's largest crude exporter, the kingdom in the desert took its ball and went home.
As the Saudis left the building, the message was shockingly clear. “Saudi Arabia will meet the market’s demand,” a senior OPEC delegate told the New York Times. “We will see what the market requires and we will not leave a customer without oil."
OPEC will still have lavish meetings and a nifty headquarters in Vienna, Austria, but the Saudis have made certain the the organization has lost its teeth. Even though the cartel argued that the sudden drop in crude was due to "oversupply", OPEC's most powerful member knows that the drop may only be temporary. Cold weather later this year could put pressure on prices. So could a decision by Russia that it wants to "punish" the US and EU for a time. That political battle is only at its beginning.
The downward pressure on oil got a second hand. Brazil has confirmed another huge oil deposit to add to one it discovered off-shore earlier this year. The first field uncovered by Petrobras has the promise of being one of the largest in the world. The breadth of that deposit has now expanded.
OPEC needs the Saudis to have any credibility in terms of pricing, supply, and the ongoing success of its bully pulpit. By failing to keep its most critical member, it forfeits its leverage.
OPEC has made no announcement about any possibility of dissolving, but the process is already over.
bigshooter
09-11-08, 21:07
gas is going up to $6 tomorow, exxon in nc is rationing to $40. per car.....
location?
i dont know how true this is, but i c+p it anyway
source?
Goldsboro NC.
Thats all I got, that is why I said I didnt know how true it was.
heard it was going up an entire dollar here. $4 now, $5 tomorrow. This is crazy.
K.L. Davis
09-11-08, 21:19
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/business/worldbusiness/11oil.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=business&adxnnlx=1221131040-KOS/e6DE0gSZ3H0lkcDcLw&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
September 11, 2008
Saudis Vow to Ignore OPEC Decision to Cut Production
By JAD MOUAWAD
VIENNA — Hours after suffering a rare setback in a negotiating session at OPEC’s headquarters, Saudi Arabian officials assured world markets on Wednesday that they would ignore the wishes of other cartel members and continue to pump plenty of oil.
The late-night bargaining session ended early Wednesday morning with a surprise declaration that OPEC would cut production to shore up sagging prices. Saudi negotiators publicly endorsed that position, but then spent much of Wednesday privately spreading the word that they did not feel bound by it.
The back-and-forth illustrated new pressures and power politics at play in the group that controls 40 percent of the world’s oil production. The meeting could be a harbinger of things to come for the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries as the cartel faces its most difficult challenge in years: how to respond to falling oil prices in a weakening global economic climate.
The confusion surrounding this week’s meeting slowed the decline in prices as oil markets struggled to understand the cartel’s byzantine politics. Oil closed Wednesday at $102.58 a barrel in New York trading, a decline of 68 cents.
After a 30 percent drop in prices since July, and with oil seemingly headed below the psychological milestone of $100 a barrel, OPEC producers are getting anxious. The cartel’s president, Chakib Khelil, said the group was particularly concerned that slowing demand for oil was creating a glut in the market that might provoke a collapse in prices.
Still, going into the meeting, Saudi Arabia was expected to prevail in its stated goal of keeping enough oil on the market to drive prices below $100 a barrel. The Saudi view is that lowering prices moderately now will shore up the world economy and prevent a recession that would cause oil prices to collapse. The Saudi oil minister, Ali al-Naimi, described the markets as being “well balanced” when he arrived in Vienna.
But after a six-hour private meeting, OPEC ministers decided to pare their production by complying strictly with targets that had been set up last year but were largely ignored. According to Mr. Khelil, who is also Algeria’s oil minister, OPEC’s actual production would have to be lowered by about 500,000 barrels a day within the next 40 days.
“We are oversupplying the market, and we are cutting that oversupply,” said Abdalla Salem el-Badri, the group’s secretary general. “We don’t want to see these prices decline dramatically.”
It remained unclear Wednesday exactly how the Saudis lost the argument behind closed doors. And despite the OPEC communiqu, it is far from clear that OPEC members will actually reduce their output. After a short night, Saudi officials were quick to reassure markets.
“Saudi Arabia will meet the market’s demand,” a senior OPEC delegate said. “We will see what the market requires and we will not leave a customer without oil. The policy has not changed.”
The Saudi message is to wait and see where demand is headed before eventually paring supplies. The Saudis made their strategy clear Wednesday in informal talks and briefings with some oil industry analysts and reporters, but as is their custom, they would not speak for attribution because they did not want to appear to undermine a collective OPEC decision.
In June, King Abdullah pledged that his country would pump at full tilt to bring prices down. In August, the kingdom increased its production to 9.7 million barrels a day, the highest in three decades. Saudi Arabia is now producing around 9.5 million barrels a day, 600,000 barrels a day more than its quota.
“This seems to set Saudi Arabia up as the unilateral decision-maker on output for the fall,” said Greg Priddy, an energy analyst at Eurasia Group, in a research note. “Clearly, other OPEC members are not going to trim their own production without Saudi Arabia returning to its quota. Saudi Arabia also seems to be eager to avoid headlines about it cutting production in advance of the U.S. elections.”
Adding to the confusion, OPEC said that two new members, Angola and Ecuador, were given new production quotas while Indonesia, a member since 1962 that has become a net importer of oil in recent years, was suspending its membership in the organization by the end of the year. OPEC officials had trouble explaining precisely how much production would need to be cut. Mr. Badri also declined to provide new targets for each member state.
OPEC’s discordant message is a reflection of the competing policies at play within the group, which includes countries like Kuwait, Nigeria, and its newest and smallest member, Ecuador. Some countries are carefully managing their oil windfall, while others are spending freely with the expectation that prices will remain high.
Moderate and pro-Western states like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are aware that high energy costs are hurting demand and might push consumers to seek alternatives to oil. These countries want to see prices fall below $100 a barrel to ease political enmity against the cartel.
Another group, composed of OPEC’s traditional price hawks, increasingly needs high prices to finance a wide range of social and military policies. Analysts say they believe that Iran and Venezuela, for example, cannot afford prices below $100 a barrel as they seek to project power in their respective regions.
As OPEC worked to push up prices from lows reached in the late 1990s, members of the cartel all shared the same interests and were willing to leave their differences aside. But now that demand is weakening and prices are falling, some analysts say they believe that tensions within the group are resurfacing. In past years, OPEC has been notoriously bad at maintaining discipline in its ranks when prices fall.
The perception that OPEC was unwilling to do its part to bring down prices brought sharp criticism Wednesday from Western officials. “We’d like to see more oil on the market, not less,” the White House press secretary, Dana M. Perino, said at a briefing.
The decision represents a rare case of the cartel going against the position of its biggest member. As he walked from his hotel to the OPEC headquarters on Tuesday evening, Mr. Naimi, the Saudi minister, seemed particularly proud of his country’s efforts to pump as much oil as needed to push down prices.
“It was hard work,” Mr. Naimi said, strolling along the city’s cobbled streets. “The market is in a very healthy position.”
Six hours later, Mr. Naimi left the meeting without a word of public comment.
There is an expected spike that should be happening, but it should be only temporary. The Gulf Coast refineries are mostly shut down or at low production due to Hurricane Ike. Once that passes they will start back up.
Chad
There is an expected spike that should be happening, but it should be only temporary. The Gulf Coast refineries are mostly shut down or at low production due to Hurricane Ike. Once that passes they will start back up.
Chad
Such optimism... Your logic is 100% founded on reason and common sense... Unfortunately, the lessons learned since Katrina to include the housing mess and the like in regards to our economy, teach us that reason and common sense are absent from reality too often. :(
You are right though.
Business_Casual
09-11-08, 22:13
gas is going up to $6 tomorow, exxon in nc is rationing to $40. per car.....
I see a slight problem with this - people can't afford to pay $6 a gallon.
The invisible hand of the market will bitch slap the retailers.
M_P
Joe_Friday
09-11-08, 22:59
$3.66 per gallon this morning and $3.90 this afternoon at the gas station down from my station. And I am going on vacation this weekend. :mad:
Heavy Metal
09-11-08, 23:08
No change in South West VA at my parents this week.
In less than a hour tonight, it went from $3.62 to $3.99, in eastern NC.
Such optimism... Your logic is 100% founded on reason and common sense... Unfortunately, the lessons learned since Katrina to include the housing mess and the like in regards to our economy, teach us that reason and common sense are absent from reality too often. :(
You are right though.
I just heard it on the radio in an interview with someone from an oil producers type association. He listed the refineries already shutting down for the storm and those that were going to shut down etc. He said it would be a short lived shutdown and gas prices would be affected for a short spike only. Makes sense.
A few bad apples will try and capitalize on it but they will lose as the market will slap them down.
Personally I think this is ridiculous. Though some refineries are shutting down out of necessity, there is no shortage and I don't see why they feel the need to raise prices. What if everyone raised prices on food, water, ammo, etc...everytime something like this happened? They could use the same rationale that supply is limited due to weather, etc..etc...
decodeddiesel
09-12-08, 09:42
Weird, I filled up this morning and it was the cheapest gas I have bought in months...??
It went up a dime in the Atlanta area.
It went up a dime in the Atlanta area.
Noticed it jumped a dime here this morning too. Was 3.31 by my house yesterday, 3.41 this morning.
johnson601
09-12-08, 10:49
Gas went down where I live, from 4.05 to 3.99. :confused:
when i got gas last night at 10, gas was 3.69, i just went by the same station, it is 4.19:mad:
woohoo, filled the 1K gall tank just in time...
30 cal slut
09-12-08, 13:20
this is all pretty retarded, considering that crude just dipped below $100/bbl.
i mean, are THAT many refineries gonna be knocked out of commission?
all those hoarders are gonna feel jilted.
thespyhunter
09-12-08, 13:25
Holding at $3.49 here in Tulsa , OK
a good friend of mine who lives about an hour from me said it went from $4 to $4.50 overnight(yesterday to today).
my local station went from $3.50 to $3.70 just today and they're limiting everyone to 10 gallons.
another parent told me that they had just come from a meeting at the school, and word is the buses may not be running next week.
all in SW-VA BTW.
Business_Casual
09-12-08, 16:10
I just filled up at $3.66 a gallon.
M_P
As retarded as this is there are some places near me at $4.70 a gal! I live near Owensboro ky and several of the local stations are completely out!
K.L. Davis
09-12-08, 16:43
Went down here... $3.39 to $3.35
:rolleyes:
David Thomas
09-12-08, 16:49
Ike is getting close. Gas stations are out of gas. So, I guess I will not have to worry about a price increase anytime soon or at least until more gas arrives.
Joe_Friday
09-12-08, 17:48
$3.66 yesterday morning and $4.59 at lunch today. From what I understand there have been several complaints, some to the Governors office reporting price gouging. Don't know how true that is or if this would even be considered PG. I do know I feel like I have been molested since I had to fill up my Avalanche this morning and it was on 1/4 tank!
I just got a report from a friend in Arkansas who advised me that all the gas stations in the area are running out of gas and prices were just jacked up to 6.22 a gallon! Unreal!
It went up a dime in the Atlanta area.
Up to 40c increase in atlanta as of now
Noticed it jumped a dime here this morning too. Was 3.31 by my house yesterday, 3.41 this morning.
And another .10 to 3.51 on the way home. :rolleyes:
Alpha Sierra
09-12-08, 19:53
The rust belt keeps looking better and better.
Up to 40c increase in atlanta as of now
You are correct sir. Some place went up from $3.69 last night to $3.99 this afternoon. Two stations across the street from each other, one is $3.99, the other is still $3.69. People are lining up to buy gas. WSB radio was telling people if they have at least 3/4 tank and don't have to travel, don't buy gas because people are having runs on gas stations.
PALADIN-hgwt
09-12-08, 20:12
xxxxx
Joe_Friday
09-12-08, 20:22
Atlanta is at $3.99 and we are... Wait... What the .... :mad:
I will never understand how a city of 100,000 residents and 130,000 daytime population can be 60 cents more a gallon than Atlanta. Also, we are the main distribution point for all of South West Georgia. I heard that it has went up again but I have not been on another call yet to verify that.
Oh and three small towns about thirty miles from us have gas prices set at $5.39 according to the local news!!!
Just got back from driving. Some gas stations still at $3.62, with 10 gal limit, but I saw other stations up to $4.69, here in eastern NC.
NCPatrolAR
09-12-08, 20:45
Just saw one station in the Charlotte area with the price at $5.29/gallon. A lot of places have instituted a 10 gallon limit also.
Here in west Texas each grade of gas, "regular, plus, and premium" were all THE SAME PRICE today...$3.65/gallon.
What that usually means is that all they have is Premium left and any choice you choose gets you Premium. I've seen that before at a few stations in the past and I asked about it and it was always the same answer.
Chad
I am seeing on Fox news reports of gas as high as 6-8 a gallon. Hopefully there is an investigation as to why a station feels a need to exploit a bad situation and raise prices like this. My friend is near Bull Shoals and he said that gas was 3.79 for premium until they jacked it up over 6.00 a gallon.
Business_Casual
09-13-08, 12:06
I don't understand why people who own a product can't charge whatever they want for it. Why do other people feel they have a right to set the price for a retailer beyond the normal market mechanisms?
If you don't want to pay $6 a gallon, don't buy gasoline. I fail to understand how this needs to be "investigated," which sounds as if one expects a crime has been perpetrated.
In a situation where the supply is limited, how does the presence of a storm or some other natural occurence abbrogate a retailers right to set prices? In other words, "gouging" is populist nonsense.
M_P
Because there is no reason to jack up the prices due to an emergency and some states actually passed laws against price gouging which is exactly what this is. What if supermarkets and everyone else did it? Would you say the same thing if they were charging 10.00 a gallon for drinking water when there wasn't any?
I don't understand why people who own a product can't charge whatever they want for it. Why do other people feel they have a right to set the price for a retailer beyond the normal market mechanisms?
If you don't want to pay $6 a gallon, don't buy gasoline. I fail to understand how this needs to be "investigated," which sounds as if one expects a crime has been perpetrated.
In a situation where the supply is limited, how does the presence of a storm or some other natural occurence abbrogate a retailers right to set prices? In other words, "gouging" is populist nonsense.
M_P
Because there is no reason to jack up the prices due to an emergency and some states actually passed laws against price gouging which is exactly what this is. What if supermarkets and everyone else did it? Would you say the same thing if they were charging 10.00 a gallon for drinking water when there wasn't any?
I would feel exactly the same way. This is America and stores should have the freedom to charge what they want. That is how free markets work. If you don't want to pay $10 for gas or a gallon of drinking water, then don't. If no one buys it, they will lower the prices. If they create too much ill will, they will lower the prices so that they do not go out of business from lack of customers.
If you are not prepared in an emergency and HAVE to pay $10, then hopefully you learned to be better prepared next time.
Say the state has the right to control prices in a free market means you also think the state has the right to control what firearms you own or what color car you drive.
This is America -- land of freedom. Free markets, and all that. Let's not hop on the nanny-state bandwagon.
South Central Georgia is at $4.79 a gallon for 87 octane, at least it is in my little town. Gas is out at one of the two stations we have here. Ran out while I was there. A friend of mine was in front of me in line filling up a can so he could mow his lawn, when the gas stopped flowing (it kind of just barely trickles out when this happens), took him 5 minutes to get two gallons this way. Station owner says it will be a few DAYS or more till he could get another delivery... So we loaded up and went across the street to the Ghandi-Mart and partially filled two 5 gallon cans and topped off two vehicles... for $130.00!!!
M1A2_Tanker
09-13-08, 14:36
I don't understand why people who own a product can't charge whatever they want for it. Why do other people feel they have a right to set the price for a retailer beyond the normal market mechanisms?
If you don't want to pay $6 a gallon, don't buy gasoline. I fail to understand how this needs to be "investigated," which sounds as if one expects a crime has been perpetrated.
In a situation where the supply is limited, how does the presence of a storm or some other natural occurence abbrogate a retailers right to set prices? In other words, "gouging" is populist nonsense.
M_P
Are you kidding me? Taking advantage of vulnerable persons during a time of tragedy is not American. If they wanna charge $6 a gallon all the time then so be it like you said free market, but to blantenly rob fellow americans in a time of need is wrong. Because you were lucky or needing to fill up the day before the price hike then, oh sorry too bad for they guy trying get back into galevston to see whats left of his life accomplishments all the while trying to figure out where his kids are going to sleep foe the next 6 months while his house is being repaired with money he doesn't have?
It Should be a crime! I hope they get jail time for it! There are alot of people who can't even afford it at right below $4 a gallon, let alone $8.
Most people whould agree that shooting is a pleasure sport so I don't expect very many of the people here to be suffering from economic hardship or to even understand what it feels like. If you have $6-$10 to spend a gallon for gas, then good for you I'm glad your doing so good. The "Too bad for you because I CAN afford it" mentality is part of the reason we are where we are in this country. I don't believe in a welfare/nanny state, but I also don't believe profit off of tragedy either!
I've spoke my NSHO. Take it with a grain of salt if you wish, I'm not gonna to get into a pissing contest over it, it's just my opinion!
This is keeping me from going to the range, 120 miles round trip. :(
Are you kidding me? Taking advantage of vulnerable persons during a time of tragedy is not American. If they wanna charge $6 a gallon all the time then so be it like you said free market, but to blantenly rob fellow americans in a time of need is wrong. Because you were lucky or needing to fill up the day before the price hike then, oh sorry too bad for they guy trying get back into galevston to see whats left of his life accomplishments all the while trying to figure out where his kids are going to sleep foe the next 6 months while his house is being repaired with money he doesn't have?
It Should be a crime! I hope they get jail time for it! There are alot of people who can't even afford it at right below $4 a gallon, let alone $8.
Most people whould agree that shooting is a pleasure sport so I don't expect very many of the people here to be suffering from economic hardship or to even understand what it feels like. If you have $6-$10 to spend a gallon for gas, then good for you I'm glad your doing so good. The "Too bad for you because I CAN afford it" mentality is part of the reason we are where we are in this country. I don't believe in a welfare/nanny state, but I also don't believe profit off of tragedy either!
I've spoke my NSHO. Take it with a grain of salt if you wish, I'm not gonna to get into a pissing contest over it, it's just my opinion!
No one said it was "right" but in America, we don't force people to do the "right" thing.
Like I said, if you want to allow the government the right to force retailers to charge a government allowed price only, then that same government can tell you what sort of firearms you may own or not, with how many rounds you can have in the magazine, etc. Same thing. Once we allow the government the power to control our lives they can control any aspect of it.
It is disturbing to see all the nanny state support in here.
Business_Casual
09-13-08, 16:41
Look, the market controls supply and demand via a mechanism called price. If you don't like that, you are out of luck because there is no appeal. If you artificially lower price, all you do is deplete inventory. Price fixing simply doesn't work - end of story.
Not only is it morally wrong, as e-guns points out, it is foolish because it won't work.
Does no one have to study history and economics anymore?
M_P
RAM Engineer
09-13-08, 17:17
This is keeping me from going to the range, 120 miles round trip. :(
Not as far as you, but I'm not going to the range this weekend either. I don't mind high prices, but I don't feel like fighting lines just to get some gas.
Alabama passed a law to prevent "unconscionable" prices during a state of emergency. The Governor declared a state of emergency yesterday, so our local conservative radio talk show host was trying to get his callers to go into the gas stations and shout "THESE PRICES ARE UNCONSCIONABLE AND I REFUSE TO PAY THEM!" :D
M1A2_Tanker
09-13-08, 18:34
Nevermind, not worth it!
KintlaLake
09-13-08, 18:39
Step 1: Buy groceries for a family of four throughout August, earn lots of Kroger Fuel Points.
Step 2: Pass BP station selling regular for $3.999/gallon, go across the street to Kroger selling regular for $3.799/gallon, buy 18 gallons.
Step 3: Pay for gas, use Kroger Fuel Points, pay $3.299/gallon. :D
Step 3a: Kick myself in the ass for being happy to pay $3.299/gallon. :o
Step 4: Go grocery shopping, earn points for October.
Step 5: Leave grocery 45 minutes later, notice that Kroger has raised the price to $3.999. :rolleyes:
Nevermind, not worth it!
You are either for freedom or against it.
Freedom means the freedom to do the wrong thing.
M1A2_Tanker
09-13-08, 20:56
So then murder, child abuse, ect should all be legal? that is what you are saying. Outlawing something has never and will never stop anything, but to punish those who don't abide by the law is the point of making it illegal. I'm just not sure I follow what you are saying?:confused:
ETA: I never said the gooberment should set the price only that retailers should not be allowed to prey on the misfortunes of fellow americans.
So then murder, child abuse, ect should all be legal? that is what you are saying. Outlawing something has never and will never stop anything, but to punish those who don't abide by the law is the point of making it illegal. I'm just not sure I follow what you are saying?:confused:
I don't get your point. We live in a free market economy yet you seem to want the state to come in and tell a merchant what prices he must charge for his goods and you seem to want to make it a crime for him to set his own prices unless he abides by the governments price boundaries.
What does being against government intrusion in the market to set prices have to do with murder, child abuse, etc?
I am not in favor of merchants jacking prices up in times of shortage and taking advantage of people (ie, doing the wrong thing), but I support their right to do so, ie, to set whatever price they want and they have to abide by the consequences of their actions (ie, nobody buys it, they get a bad reputation, etc).
Chad
M1A2_Tanker
09-13-08, 21:16
I should have refreshed the page before I edited my post, please see my previous post.:rolleyes:
Gas priced around the nation are generally +/- 10% of eachother. When you see reports of people doubling their prices in contrast to current market rates it is obvious the guy is trying to turn a profit. It also makes the station acroos the road or down the street think "Well what does this guy know that I dont?, should I up my prices aswell" and leads to a chain reaction in that area and it only HURTS the local economy. I think he should be punsihed.
I should have refreshed the page before I edited my post, please see my previous post.:rolleyes:
Gas priced around the nation are generally +/- 10% of eachother. When you see reports of people doubling their prices in contrast to current market rates it is obvious the guy is trying to turn a profit. It also makes the station acroos the road or down the street think "Well what does this guy know that I dont?, should I up my prices aswell" and leads to a chain reaction in that area and it only HURTS the local economy. I think he should be punsihed.
Again, you want to punish people through the state for being free in a free market economy? The market will punish them. (And God)
The same government that can punish merchants who don't toe the line can also mandate how many rounds your magazines can have, what sort, if any, of firearms you have, etc.
You are either for freedom or against it.
As a retailer myself, I believe that any retailer should be able to charge any price he wants for what ever he has to sell.
BUT
I also know that my customers will not forget it if I rip them off... so I always attempt to be fair.
Now the Gandhi-Mart fellow was able to sock me for $4.79 a gallon today... but I'll remember that NEXT time I need gas.
I'm NOT holding a grudge towards my Indian gas station manager friend, I'm just more inclined to give my business to those folks across the street from him, that offered me a better price, while they could.
What comes around goes around.
I will have to agree with eguns, you are either for the freedom of the market, or not.
Tonight in W Jordan UTAH. $3.63. If anything, the stations on this intersection are down a penny or three in the last couple of days.
Gas going up at the pumps and some station are running out of gas. But price of crude just dropped below $99.
Gas going up at the pumps and some station are running out of gas. But price of crude just dropped below $99.
It sounds like gas went up in those markets who buy Texas/Gulf refined gas. Here in Utah, as of Sat night, gas was the same or had gone down a few more pennies.
I just talked to my brother in Abilene TX and gas was about $3.60. You would think as close as he is it would be higher.
Gas down 2 cents here in W Jordan Utah. Was 3.63 on Saturday/Monday. Tuesday 3.61.
KintlaLake
09-17-08, 09:46
Averaging $4.00 in greater Columbus, up almost 10% from a month ago.
Power outage still is widespread, so just finding a station pumping gas is a hit-and-miss proposition.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.