View Full Version : The one gun solution?
Hello all,
For the past few years I've been building up my SHTF stores. I've covered firearms for defense, and for hunting in a pinch. As it is, I'm not a hunter and have no plans to be come one. But, in the 0.0000001% chance that the S does hit the F, I want to have a hunting rifle. So, I'm looking for one caliber that can handle everything. I know it won't be optimal, but I want something that can put down the animals I might encounter in the Pacific North West and western Canada and Alaska.
I had pretty much decided on a 300 Win Mag until I recently read about the 338 Federal and the 33 Nosler. The 33 Nosler is especially interesting to me if what I've read is accurate. The downside is that I've only found one rifle that is chambered for that round.
Does anyone have any experience with these two rounds? What do you think about my logic? Is there a better solution to this problem?
Thanks in advance,
JRC
If you don't reload then I would stick with a caliber that you can easily find off the shelf. IMO, the king of that would be 30.06. Runner up would be .308. They may not be the sexiest or most exotic but will both easily do the job as long as you choose the right bullet, and put that bullet where it needs to be.
Hunting is way less about the equipment than it is about knowledge and fieldcraft, so don't overthink it :)
sevenhelmet
11-12-16, 10:49
I would tend to agree... 30.06 and .308 were the first to cross my mind as well. Rifles chambered in those rounds are common, the ammo is easier to find, and they'll get the job done. Since you're not an avid hunter, I'd get a Remington 700 or similar, scope and zero it, and call it done. May not be sleek and sexy, but it's solid and reliable.
33 Nosler is pretty obscure (in my humble opinion). Have you actually shot one in a side-by-side comparison, or are you just reading about ballistics? I would wager the differences between that and more common .30 cal rounds is minimal for your intended use.
I think there is a lot of wisdom in this post. Thanks for it.
JRC
If you don't reload then I would stick with a caliber that you can easily find off the shelf. IMO, the king of that would be 30.06. Runner up would be .308. They may not be the sexiest or most exotic but will both easily do the job as long as you choose the right bullet, and put that bullet where it needs to be.
Hunting is way less about the equipment than it is about knowledge and fieldcraft, so don't overthink it :)
It's purely from reading. I was hoping for something that would bring down everything from moose to deer to hogs, anything that I might encounter. But, given that the odds that I'll need this are almost zero, and that if I did, I'd have a hell of a time finding 33 Nosler or 338 Federal ammo, I think that 30.06 is a really logical choice.
JRC
I would tend to agree... 30.06 and .308 were the first to cross my mind as well. Rifles chambered in those rounds are common, the ammo is easier to find, and they'll get the job done. Since you're not an avid hunter, I'd get a Remington 700 or similar, scope and zero it, and call it done. May not be sleek and sexy, but it's solid and reliable.
33 Nosler is pretty obscure (in my humble opinion). Have you actually shot one in a side-by-side comparison, or are you just reading about ballistics? I would wager the differences between that and more common .30 cal rounds is minimal for your intended use.
None of your choices are bad.
The .338 Fed is a good cartridge, but without a ton of support outside of Federal itself. The 33 Nosler tries to do 338 Lapua Mag in non-magnum long action, but even compared to 338 RUM or 338 Edge the same problem arises (on top of "stout" recoil).
Although old and crusty the '06 is a great round, and with some modern loadings capable of encroaching on .300 Win Mag territory.
Townsend Whelen "The 30-06 is never a mistake"
Sent from 80ms in the future
Jimmy
If you don't actually plan to hunt, there's not much that is going to promise any success at all if you actually have to hunt to survive... But for the rife, .30-06.
I guess that I will be the outlyer voice here. The choice I made for my go to hunting rifle that will bring down each of the animals that you mentioned, including many much larger, is 45-70 govt.
Application: It comes in flavors from a truly barely noticeable 250gr to a drop a dangerous game animal 550gr and above. I shoot the 405 gr cartridge.
Firearm: I shoot it from a Marlin 1895 Guide gun, a great all around rifle, which if you are into tinkering there are shops that specialize in shortening the barrel, lengthening the magazine, etc.
Availibility: When initially considering which caliber I looked all the ones mentioned, all great and popular calibers and thought hard about availibility in a pinch. So over a six month period I made it a point to go to gun ranges, shows and stores in three states in my normal travels. In every one I was able to find a flavor of 45-70 on the shelf. If you reload there is a whole subculture of guys out there who reload this round. I don't reload at present but just in case I have kept all of the spent brass over the last 2 years and have a great starting stockpile if I start seeing storm clouds on the horizon, I will put together a reloading setup and get to work.
Cost per round: Buying boxes off the shelf can get spendy. I buy from a place off the net that does bulk sales for LE and Mil for exactly 1/2 the cost of the off the shelf box. That said even as I source it, it is probably a few bucks more per box than some the other calibers mentioned in this thread.
Conclusion: For me it came down to this I NEVER want to be out in the woods with my life on the line and have to wonder " did I bring enough gun". We have a lot of bears where I hunt and I am frosty as this round was designed todrop buffaloe, DRT. The Guide gun is the one the outfitter carriies when the client's gun wasn't enough or malfunctions and everyone's life is on the line. That and it is just a fun round to shoot. Good luck with your choice.
My Garand. It'll kill anything in North America humanely and I think it handles defensive and offensive operations as well...
My browning hi power safari in 300win mag made in 1965 ish
Using h4895 i can safely load it down to the low end of 308 win using 150
Or the high end of 308 win, 30-06 or 300 win using 150 gmx
Or i can load 190 220 or 230 for bigger ranges.
[emoji41] [emoji41]
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
For a 1-gun solution as a fighting and hunting rifle, you would be ahead of the game to stay with a military cartridge. For a *HTF scenario the .308 is where you would want to be. You'll be looking for ammo that could be picked up on the battlefield. Only the .308 fits this situation.
My solution is the Steyr Scout rifle in .308. This rifle weighs 6.6lbs without accessories. If all hope is lost and I have to abandon everything else, the Steyr will be in my hands when I go. In a bad situation you will not be carrying reloading equipment with you. That will be the first thing you drop.
I'd be stocking up and a cacheing battle packs where I could get to them.
SamM
This is all been fantastic information thank you to everyone who's posted.
For a small bit of clarification when I said '1 gun', what I really meant was 'one gun for hunting in a survival situation'.
Thanks again,
JRC
IKnowNotEverything
11-14-16, 13:38
If i was forced to have only one weapon in a survival situation it would be a 12 gauge pump shotty w/ interchangeable choke tubes and a spare barrel for slugs. That covers everything that flies, walks, or crawls on the continent. I believe Mossberg offers the 500 in that exact setup.
lillrobin343
11-14-16, 13:57
A tikka t3 lite in 308 with a low powered scope on it.
Very light weight and practical rifle!
Skickat från min SM-G920F via Tapatalk
WickedWillis
11-14-16, 16:52
As someone else who grew up, and still reside close to the PNW, there really isn't anything around here the 30-06 can't and won't handle.
For a small bit of clarification when I said '1 gun', what I really meant was 'one gun for hunting in a survival situation'.
Well, in that case I'd get a Chiappa M6-22 with a set of the X-Caliber inserts. The X-Caliber is designed for use in any condition and with any ammunition available. Originally designed with two calibers, a rifled .22 LR and a smooth bore .12 GA -, this rifle can fire up to 12 different calibers thanks to the 8 steel adapters supplied. In addition to the two original gauges, adapters allow you to shoot 8 pistol calibers ( .380 , 9 mm , .357Mag/.38SP , .40 S & W, .44 Mag, .45 ACP , .410/.45colt ) and two shotgun calibers (410 ga, 20ga), combining the flexibility of a shotgun and the power of a rifled gun.
In a survival situation, this capability would be unmatched. I've really been thinking of buying this setup.
SamM
http://chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/M6_dx.jpg
http://chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/XCAL_setopen.jpg
I'd recommend a .30-06, as well. Countless Alaskan Brown Bears have been killed by hunters using a .30-06 loaded with 200-220 grain bullets. Countless deer and elk have been killed by hunters using a .30-06. It will be stocked by any retailer that sells ammunition. Most shooters can handle the recoil of a .30-06, whereas .338-caliber cartridges often induce flinching. The .308 is also a great choice, albeit with slightly less energy. Either one would serve you well.
Wow. I've never seen anything like that. That's so cool.
JRC
Well, in that case I'd get a Chiappa M6-22 with a set of the X-Caliber inserts. The X-Caliber is designed for use in any condition and with any ammunition available. Originally designed with two calibers, a rifled .22 LR and a smooth bore .12 GA -, this rifle can fire up to 12 different calibers thanks to the 8 steel adapters supplied. In addition to the two original gauges, adapters allow you to shoot 8 pistol calibers ( .380 , 9 mm , .357Mag/.38SP , .40 S & W, .44 Mag, .45 ACP , .410/.45colt ) and two shotgun calibers (410 ga, 20ga), combining the flexibility of a shotgun and the power of a rifled gun.
In a survival situation, this capability would be unmatched. I've really been thinking of buying this setup.
SamM
http://chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/M6_dx.jpg
http://chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/XCAL_setopen.jpg
So, it would appear that the group has leaned fairly heavily toward .30-06. And I think that's the direction I'll be going.
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to answer,
JRC
Just to add one more thing, I would learn to hunt long before you "need" to hunt.
After all, you know what the indians called a man who couldn't hunt, right? A vegetarian ;)
The only problem with that is once he learns to hunt he'll become a hunter. Then he will start buying other guns to hunt with, it'll be like falling down the rabbit hole. A whole new habit started just because he was looking for the ideal rifle. ����
This is also very good advice.
JRC
Just to add one more thing, I would learn to hunt long before you "need" to hunt.
After all, you know what the indians called a man who couldn't hunt, right? A vegetarian ;)
The only problem with that is once he learns to hunt he'll become a hunter. Then he will start buying other guns to hunt with, it'll be like falling down the rabbit hole. A whole new habit started just because he was looking for the ideal rifle. ����
THIS! ! ! !
... the other day I was shooting a flintlock 48" long barreled smoothbore (no rear sight) and was ringing the 8" square gong at 100-yds just about every shot offhand, at least 2 for 3 if not 3 for 4.
A guy watching wanted to try it ... "Sure thing I said ... just be aware this WILL ruin your life, as you'll want one!"
Well he missed the gong ... but he is buying one of my old flintlock rifles off of me! Haha ...
I didn't grow up hunting, I got into it eight years ago. In that time I've acquired three rifles, two shotguns, and a inline muzzle loader. I use them all in the course of a season. It is an addiction.
Survival shtf and niche cartridge does not so good.
30-06 .308 hell
A quality match reece rifle shooting 75 gr would do good too.
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Averageman
11-18-16, 08:06
Or you could lay it in deep and go with 6.5 Creedmoor in a Savage bolt rifle and lay in a .308 barrel and a couple of other key components and likely have a little more versatility.
The neat thing about that is a later companion AR in .308 could also have a 6.5 upper.
That's a lot of versatility in a bolt action and a later follow on AR style rifle.
if shtf, most of your shooting better be done with subsonic .22lr and a suppressor. dozens, if not 100's of people will hear your shot and many of them will shoot you on sight. The game will all be gone in less than a month and there's far more small critters, dogs, deer, and livestock than there is elk and moose. You can't shoot a gun that you aint got with you and you have no crystal ball that tells you when it's ok to not have your fighting rifle. There will be no safe place to leave your "other" rifle, either. So you're stuck with the most versatile fighting rifle, and that's the AR. It has plenty of range, power and accuracy, luminous sights (since it's dark half of the time) chrome bore and chamber, rustproof, dark finish, can be used well with just one arm (ie, helping a loved one walk). Nothing else even comes close to being as versatile. A gun for which you have no ammo is just a club and the great majority of ammo available is 223, 9mm, or .22lr. It comes threaded for a suppressor, in a variety of calibers, rifling twists, and barrel lengths. It takes down in a few seconds to conceal in your pack and takes just seconds to reassemble and fire, too.
Lost River
11-19-16, 20:27
This cow elk took a 175 grain SMK to the head at 400 yards.
(Normally I would not take such a shot with a traditional hunting rifle, but I had the proper equipment, and the elk were bunched up, and this was the shot offered).
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Elk%20hunts/SAKO20ELK2_zps74nbqieb.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Elk%20hunts/SAKO20ELK2_zps74nbqieb.jpg.html)
This guy was lasered at 400 yards
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Rifles/sntzd400ydLVLKmuley.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Rifles/sntzd400ydLVLKmuley.jpg.html)
This Yote was taken at just over 500 yards
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Rifles/500ydrogersonhaystackdog.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Rifles/500ydrogersonhaystackdog.jpg.html)
These 2 Muleys were taken at a lasered 598 yards.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/2005Deer598yds308Tikka.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/2005Deer598yds308Tikka.jpg.html)
My daughter popped this cow last December at a lasered 375 yards:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/2015%20ELK/P1010361_zpskihhqfu1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/2015%20ELK/P1010361_zpskihhqfu1.jpg.html)
The point of the pics is this:
What these all have in common is that all these animals were taken at ranges ranging from basically 375 to 600 yards, with a .308. Not one needed a second shot.
I have killed dozens of elk, and I have no idea how many Mule Deer over the years, and can attest to the effectiveness of the lowly .308.
You will read a bunch of stuff on the net, mostly from guys with only one, maybe 2 elk at most, about how you need a belted magnum. That is simply not so. In fact I have noted a trend of guys who have never actually killed an elk to recommend bigger and bigger cartridges. Reality is a whole other matter.
While I do shoot, and hunt with a .300 WM, it is primarily for when the ranges get rather extended, and in less than ideal conditions (wind). people not experienced with mountain hunting tend to think of wind as a horizontal issue.
In the mountains, you have updrafts, and downdrafts to contend with, as well as the normal horizontal winds. That is a whole other subject though.
The punchline is that, you should stick with a cartridge that you can shoot precisely, rather than the one with the most foot pounds of energy.
If I had to choose just one cartridge for all my medium and big game hunting, anywhere on this continent, I would roll with a .308.
Lost River
11-19-16, 20:38
if shtf, most of your shooting better be done with subsonic .22lr and a suppressor. dozens, if not 100's of people will hear your shot and many of them will shoot you on sight. The game will all be gone in less than a month and there's far more small critters, dogs, deer, and livestock than there is elk and moose. You can't shoot a gun that you aint got with you and you have no crystal ball that tells you when it's ok to not have your fighting rifle. There will be no safe place to leave your "other" rifle, either. So you're stuck with the most versatile fighting rifle, and that's the AR. It has plenty of range, power and accuracy, luminous sights (since it's dark half of the time) chrome bore and chamber, rustproof, dark finish, can be used well with just one arm (ie, helping a loved one walk). Nothing else even comes close to being as versatile. A gun for which you have no ammo is just a club and the great majority of ammo available is 223, 9mm, or .22lr. It comes threaded for a suppressor, in a variety of calibers, rifling twists, and barrel lengths. It takes down in a few seconds to conceal in your pack and takes just seconds to reassemble and fire, too.
I whole heartedly disagree with this nonsense.
Since you have no idea where people live, your scenario might work in your myopic world, but not everywhere.
As an example, I have a place where there are actually more elk, antelope and deer, than there are people by a considerable margin. In fact the last census showed .82 people per square mile in the county, which is over 4,900 square miles. The very vast majority of the people live in 3 small towns. In fact, if you go out 20 miles in any direction from my cabin, you will find exactly 1 full time residence, with 2 people living there. However in that circumference you will find HUNDREDS of big game animals.
Not everyone fits a certain mold, and not everyone's SHTF will be the same.
I whole heartedly disagree with this nonsense.
Since you have no idea where people live, your scenario might work in your myopic world, but not everywhere.
As an example, I have a place where there are actually more elk, antelope and deer, than there are people by a considerable margin. In fact the last census showed .82 people per square mile in the county, which is over 4,900 square miles. The very vast majority of the people live in 3 small towns. In fact, if you go out 20 miles in any direction from my cabin, you will find exactly 1 full time residence, with 2 people living there. However in that circumference you will find HUNDREDS of big game animals.
Not everyone fits a certain mold, and not everyone's SHTF will be the same.
Very well put. You really need to think of your surroundings first. What will you be in when it goes down. City/country, night and day on critters and 2 legged ones. And ill be rolling with my .308 if need be.
titsonritz
11-21-16, 16:59
My "one gun solution" is a T/C Encore w/ 308, .223, 12ga, 45-70 Katahdin and 50 caliber muzzle loader barrels.
If i was forced to have only one weapon in a survival situation it would be a 12 gauge pump shotty w/ interchangeable choke tubes and a spare barrel for slugs. That covers everything that flies, walks, or crawls on the continent. I believe Mossberg offers the 500 in that exact setup.
I would go with the 835, that way if you can only find 31/2 inch shells.
BuzzinSATX
11-29-16, 18:50
So, it would appear that the group has leaned fairly heavily toward .30-06. And I think that's the direction I'll be going.
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to answer,
JRC
FWIW, I think you are making a solid choice here. Your original idea of a 300 WinMag was also a good choice, but definitely nothing wrong with a good shooting '06.
My suggestion from this point would be to find a quality 160-165 grain bullet weight round and a quality 200-220 grain round that shoots well from your gun and learn how they shoot at 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards if possible. The 160's work well in the lower 48, but most folks I remember who carried an 'ought-six" in Alaska when I was there stuck to 200-220 grain bullets for moose and bear.
Good luck with your new rifle.
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